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- [00:01]
John
Welcome Back to part two with Dr. Laurie Denning. The Book of Judges touched my heart.
- [00:08]
Host
Where are all these miracles that we've heard about? And he mentions Egypt. Where's our Red Sea? Where's the plagues that save us? That is pretty snarky. But what you said there, Laurie, was important. How come everyone else is getting all these wonderful blessings? And he says, if the Lord be with us, why is it so hard? Why is it so awful? And then he's like, you're gonna be the guy. He's like, wait, what? Where's all the miracles? Go look in the mirror. You're gonna be the miracle.
- [00:35]
Dr. Laurie Denning
And he's like, well, I didn't wanna go that far. I didn't say it should be me. And that is powerful, though, isn't it? Where we say, I don't know if the Lord remembers me. I don't even doubt that miracles have happened in other people's lives. But where's my miracle? Or, when's he gonna step in? Or, when's it enough? Or does it even remember me? That feels really real.
- [00:55]
Host
And not only do I remember you, I'm gonna actually answer your prayers with you. I love that. Where the Lord says, where are the miracles? Have I not sent you? Here we go. And he's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. How am I supposed to save Israel? I'm a nobody. And like you said, Lori, you're perfect.
- [01:14]
Dr. Laurie Denning
You're perfect.
- [01:15]
Host
That's exactly what I want.
- [01:16]
Dr. Laurie Denning
The littlest guy of the littlest tribe, of the smallest family that's hiding. I can do something with that. I can make that work. Not only I think, does he see us, but he can make us mighty men of valor. Mighty women of valor. He can say with me, I can do all things. I can even make you little Gideon. Pretty cool. If you just end it on the story of Gideon, that's even cooler. But it keeps going. There are two stories that I think are really powerful. There's a bunch of them here. We won't have time to probably go through all of them. One of the first ones is the one where he gives him some first instructions. He tells him to go, and he says, go tear down the Baals. Go tear down the statues. Now, remember, we heard in chapter two that they were gonna have to tear down the altars. Here's an actual assignment. Go tear down those other gods. Get them out. In fact, don't just tear them down in town. Go to your dad's. Go tear down your dad's idols, his altars, his bowls and his poles and his scary things. And so do you think Gideon just marches out and just says, woo, good news, Lord's with me. I'm gonna go of bravery. No, go to verse 27 and let's see what he did. John, do you have verse 27 that you could read for us?
- [02:30]
John
Judges 6:27. So Gideon took 10 of his servants and did as the Lord had told him. But because he was too afraid of his family and the townspeople to do it by day, he did it by night. Doing that mighty men of valor thing again.
- [02:47]
Dr. Laurie Denning
I love that he took some friends. He's not afraid for no reason. He's saying, if I go and do this, they will kill me. So he doesn't go during day, he goes at night, which is an interesting hero. He's not like boldly mighty man of value, like, I sneak in and do it at night.
- [03:05]
John
No, no.
- [03:05]
Dr. Laurie Denning
Knows me. And he still does it, though. He still does it. But it's real fear because the next day the townspeople woke up early and they noticed that the altar was broken down in the sacred pole and it was cut down. And the bull was offered on the altar. And they said, who has done this searching? They said, gideon, son of Joash did it. And the people go to the dad, Joash, and they said, bring out your son that he may die, for he has pulled down our altar and cut down the sacred pole. I'm paraphrasing a little. Joash says, and I love this to all who were arrayed against him. You contend for BAAL or will you defend his cause? Whoever contends for him shall be put to death by morning. For if he's a God, let him contend for himself because the altar has been pulled down. Think of this for a second. It's your son, but it's your worship. The people come and they find out and said, bring out your son and we're going to kill him. And he steps into the gap. He steps in and says, I'm not going to kill him. The BAAL can fight for himself. If he's a God, he can step up. He's really lucky they didn't kill him, but he steps up. Now, remember, this is a part member family, and a lot of us are part member families. We're blended families or converts, almost all of us. I wonder if we don't have people like Joash in our life that step into the gap. When I decided to go back to school, it was a big decision for me because I had a career. I was in business at one point I even worked at Frito Lay. Right. The chip company. I thought that I had made it as far as corporate America, had kind of. I was then later a vice president and a director. So I had these big titles. I'd made corporate America when I felt really directed to go back to school and become a biblical scholar as an adult. I don't know if you can tell, but I'm old. It's hard to know is this the right thing to do? And my parents were always very supportive and friends were supportive. But there was one person that stepped into the gap for me. And you guys might know her, but it's my twin sister that's gonna make me cry.
- [05:11]
Host
We know her and love her.
- [05:13]
Dr. Laurie Denning
We do. She has been such a big support during this challenge. It's been eight years or something since I went back to school. And then all the way through the PhD. And she would always support me and in so many ways, spiritually, financially, just motivation. She would even have cookies delivered at my house when I passed a big test or when something happened. So she was tracking my progress so much that I never felt like I was doing it on my own. She stepped into that gap when I needed it. Even though she is a scholar of the gospel, as you know, she does it behind the scenes. Some of you know her and some of you don't. But she's a big lesson to me of how we can be that Joash for other people, too. We can step up and support them in what the Lord has asked them to do. So thanks, Lisa.
- [06:11]
Host
The wonderful Lisa Spice.
- [06:13]
John
Yeah. People who listen often hear the name Lisa Spice. Twin sister of Lori Denning.
- [06:19]
Dr. Laurie Denning
Yeah, she is my twin. She's the cute twin. So there you go.
- [06:24]
Host
The cute, identical twin.
- [06:26]
Dr. Laurie Denning
Yeah, we're identical, so don't. Don't read into that at all.
- [06:29]
Host
Yeah. I love that Joash steps up for his son. If you want him, you have to go through me.
- [06:36]
Dr. Laurie Denning
Even Gideon needs help. He's a mighty man of valor because he has help. We have now found two heroes. Jael isn't a member, a Covenant member, and Joash isn't a Covenant member. We have help with our broader Christian cousins, Covenant cousins, and people in the world that will come to our aid. We're never really alone with good people around us. And I love that the scriptures here salute them as well.
- [07:07]
Host
That's a great story. That's not one you usually think of with Gideon.
- [07:11]
John
Can we talk about the fleece?
- [07:14]
Dr. Laurie Denning
We can. If we jump down to the end of chapter six, about 36 it's just a handful of verses, just four or so verses. And it tells about the fleece. John, do you know this story? Do you want to read it for us or just tell it to us?
- [07:26]
John
He wants some reassurance. This is the nrsv. Then Gideon said to God, in order to see whether you will deliver Israel by my hand, as you have said, I'm going to lay a. A fleece of wool on the threshing floor. If there is dew on the fleece alone, and it is dry on all the ground, then I shall know that you will deliver Israel by my hand, as you have said. And it was so when he rose early next morning and squeezed the fleece. He wrung out enough dew from the fleece to fill a bowl with water. Then Gideon said to God, do not let your anger burn against me. Let me speak one more time. Let me please make trial with the fleece just once more. Let it be dry only on the fleece, and on the ground let there be dew. God did so that night. It was dry on the fleece only, and on the ground there was dew.
- [08:19]
Dr. Laurie Denning
I love how you started it, though. It's like you said that, hey, he says, see if you're going to deliver by my hand. Here. I mean, here's Gideon, the least brave guy we have met so far. Even after his dad stepping in, even after talking to an angel. He's like, God, just to be clear, I wanna make sure you really think it's me that's supposed to be the deliverer, this mighty man of valor. So will you do a thing for me? He does it one way, the fleece is wet and the ground is dry. And then the second is the other way. The fleece is dry and the ground is wet. So he's asking for the reverse. Could naturally settle on wool, but it would be super weird if it was the other way. And I love his quote, let not thine anger be kindled against me, and I will speak. But this once, like, he knows when he's asking for it. Like, don't be mad, but I really, really, really, really, really need some assurance here before I go to war. Me to war. I just need a confirmation. John, what about this jumps out to you or you find intriguing?
- [09:24]
John
I remembered that story from Michael Wilcox and it touched me. Because there's lots of times when you're not. You're not really sign seeking. You just. Can you give me one more little encouragement? This is what he wrote. Some have felt Gideon was sign seeking, which we are warned not to do. But there's a difference between asking for a sign to create faith and then deciding to act and asking for a sign to confirm faith, strengthening previous decision to act. We often say, the Lord, show me and I will act. The Lord replies, act and I will show you. But fleeces are not. Gideon was going to face the Midianites. The Lord will grant us our own fleeces when we are in need of strength, when we cry out, as did the father of the boy with the dumb spirit, Lord, I believe, help thou mine unbelief. The Lord is willing to respond. So he needed a fleece, that guy. When the walls look high and strong, but we intend to face them anyway, the soft fleeces of comforting reassurance will come. They may come in the inspired words of a father's blessing or in a special verse of scripture we are led to in our reading. They may come as we counsel with a leader or in a conversation with a friend. Often they come with the peace of the Holy Ghost. During these times we must be careful not to let our fears blind us to the fleeces that God has sent.
- [10:45]
Dr. Laurie Denning
I love that the Lord met Gideon where he was. Gideon wasn't confident and to be fair, he was asking a lot. Please go up into army and remember you were a farmer 10 minutes ago. So you would be frightened. Not only for myself, but for everyone I'm going to take with me. Is this really what you want me to do? Am I really the right guy or gal? There's so many other good people you could choose to be the bishop, or to go on a mission, or to help this ministering sister. There are so many other people that could stand up for truth, that could say the right thing, that could vote in my country, there's somebody else. There's gotta be somebody else. And he's like, no, no, you can do it, you can do it. I love that the Lord meets Gideon where he is. He doesn't rebuke him either. He says, okay, yeah, I'll just do it. I'll show you. If that's what you need, I can do that.
- [11:38]
John
We can all relate to a time with a calling, with we have to teach a class. We're nervous about that. I need a fleece. I think a patriarchal blessing. You can go back to what a fleece the Lord has offered us with those. And we can go back and read that, say, okay, this says this. Have you ever done that? You guys, have you ever quoted your patriarch blessing to the Lord? Yeah, as I have. Look, it says right Here in paragraph.
- [12:04]
Host
We had a contract.
- [12:06]
John
Yeah, we had a deal.
- [12:10]
Dr. Laurie Denning
Maybe not. It's bold, but I. I love the boldness. You're like, oh, I could try that. You could probably quote it back at. To me. And you said, yes, yes, I did say those things. I did. That is correct. That's beautiful. We all need a fleece from time to time. We need a Joash and a Fleece and a JL and a Deborah. We all need somebody to go along with us, step into the gap and say, yep, this is where you're supposed to be. There's another story that goes on, and so we don't want to miss it. But for time, I do want to skip to an end. And in Judges 7, we hear what happens. And most people know this story, right, where he whittles down the army and then they win kind of in a miraculous way. We'll let you read that on your own. But there is an interesting part that sometimes we forget. And again, we're remembering this covenant and these failures. There's an end section where he has a failure after the victory. And it's actually in chapter eight. If you go to judges eight, 22 through 28. This is where Gideon's growing up. Time goes on. He's won some battles. The people are starting to follow him. They say, hey, will you be our king? Rule over us is what he says. He even uses his covenant words. And he's like, well, the Lord will rule over you. And you're like, good for you, Gideon. He's got it. And then keep reading, because, you see, he's big fat liar at this point. He's starting to fall. So let's go down to. I know. Spoiler. I told you. This is where you're gonna see. They're all gonna have a hard time. He says, I won't rule over you. And I love it. And my son will not rule over you. Do you guys know what his son's name is, by the way? His son's name is Abimelech. My father is king. I'm not even making that up. I will not rule over you, and nor will my son. Have you met my son? What's your son's name? My dad is the king. Yes. I don't know where he got that name. So weird. So weird. And then he does. So Gideon does get very proud, and he rules over them again. There's a lot of irony and satire, and you're supposed to start seeing it go down to verse 24, and it says, Again, I'm in 8:24. Gideon said to them, no, no, we won't rule and nor will my son. But instead, let's do this other thing. This is going to be such a good idea. You'll love it. Bring me a gold earring from the spoils from this army. And then again, the enemy had these earrings, you know, has to tell you a little aside. And the Ishmaelites used to have these. Now not even the Midianite. Different group. So they're just battling away. Then he says, and we will willing them give them. He holds out his coat and they all throw their gold earrings in. He gets a gazillion of them and then he makes an ephod, a covenantal spiritual device. He puts it, and then they worship it. No, no, don't. I will not rule over you. But instead I will make a spiritual counterfeit and you can worship it. And you're supposed to go, wait a minute. What? His pride, his power, money now are in the way again. I already told you, they're going to fail. So only pretty much Deborah doesn't. Here's Gideon's downfall. We know the serious stories, but remember, spiritual action is not an inoculation. You have to keep choosing the covenant, and covenant is something we do. So you're thinking it's going to be great with this mighty man of valor. And he was. And if only we could have ended there.
- [15:32]
Host
What is it? Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
- [15:37]
Dr. Laurie Denning
Yeah. And remember, that's the snare that they will lift up their heads. It says lift up and they will make a collar that they're going to be trapped.
- [15:45]
Host
I don't want to be king. Come here. King's son, my dad.
- [15:50]
Dr. Laurie Denning
What's your son's name? My father is king, of course. Don't worship me. Worship this thing I made at my house.
- [15:58]
John
Out of earrings?
- [16:00]
Dr. Laurie Denning
Yeah, out of earrings, out of gold. Wonder. All right. There's a spiritual experience, a calling, a spiritual moment, a testimony. Roles that we have that become the golden calf, or in this case, the golden ephod that we make when we start worshiping the container instead of the Lord. When we aren't working forward in our covenants and doing the things, then we start to fade. Judges are saying, look, covenant people don't do what we did. Remember the Lord and keep your covenants by doing the things. And don't fall into these snares because they're all around you. Again, it's not battles that they fail in. It's things they put their foot or their neck right into. They step into it willingly. Don't let that happen to you.
- [16:46]
Host
It's a different kind of enemy. Pride, money, power. And I bet you guys are going to be shocked as soon as Gideon's dead. The children of Israel turned again.
- [16:58]
Dr. Laurie Denning
What?
- [16:58]
Host
I know. I know this is surprising at this point.
- [17:01]
John
It's like a broken record.
- [17:03]
Dr. Laurie Denning
Luckily, the text is going to have us jump to Samson. Gideon's one of the longest, and then Samson's the next longest, and it's going to follow the same beats. We call it the same steps of an advantage in the Lord and a heavenly visitor and all these things. And then it just goes downhill super fast. Let's go to 13. Let's jump to the story of Samson. And it's about four chapters long. And it starts with an easily skipped chapter, but we're not gonna. Because it's my favorite one. Chapter 13. Lucky 13 in judges.
- [17:31]
Host
Chapter 13. I don't know if you guys have ever heard this, but it's breaking news. Guess how chapter 13 starts.
- [17:40]
Dr. Laurie Denning
They were doing a really good job. Were they doing a good job, Children of Israel?
- [17:44]
Host
Doing righteousness in the side. Just kidding. The children of Israel did evil again in the sight of the Lord. Shocking. I know.
- [17:55]
John
Shocking.
- [17:55]
Dr. Laurie Denning
And again, if you read chapter two, you would know that it's all gonna end poorly, right? Like, it's. Spoiler alert. This isn't one where you're waiting to find out. You're like, ah, so we ended on Gideon and he was naughty. And then there are some other people in here. His father and then Jephthah, and they all do evil again. And then here we are. We're going to do something interesting with the story of Samson. It's the longest narrative. He is definitely the main character, but I want to share some other things that I think will be helpful about this chapter that you might not have seen before. Mostly because this is where my dissertation is. But I think some of it's really interesting to Covenant people. There's some interesting insights here, but the first chapter is not one to be skipped. And it's often skipped because it's about his mom and his dad. Now, his mom doesn't have a name. She's just called the woman of Manoah or wife, just like the woman of Lapidoth. Woman and wife is the same in Hebrew, so you have to take it in context. But I think they're going to keep calling her this for important. She's anonymous, not because she's diminished, but because she is a type of someone that we can see in ourselves. Verse 2 of chapter 13 starts with, and there was a certain man of Zorah, and he was from this tribe and his name was Manoah. This is going to be Samson's dad, Manoah. Now he is named, but then it's the wife of Manoah because it's going to be the mom. So you think, oh, that's going to be the hero. Because usually when the deliverer is announced, it starts that way. There was a person and they were from this tribe and their name was blah. And you're like, oh, it's the next person. That's not the next person. He's not a hero. It flips and it goes to, and the wife was barren and she had borne no children. And you're like, wait, what? We just took a left turn. Then an angel shows up and says to her, you are barren and you've had no children, but you shall conceive and bear a son. Now, Bible scholars, have you ever heard a story about a couple who was barren and could not have a child? And an angel shows up and says, hey, even though you're barren, you could have a child. Can you think of any such story in scripture?
- [20:05]
Host
That would be Abraham and Sarah.
- [20:07]
Dr. Laurie Denning
Abraham and Sarah, very good. And then even the story Rebecca, they have a hard time having children. And then they have two children, even Rachel and Leah. Rachel can't have a son and says, you go have a son. Then there's another Hannah in the next book. First Samuel is the second wife. She can't have a child and so she goes to the temple. And then there's another one called the Shunammite widow because she doesn't have a name that she comes and Elisha the prophet comes and tells her. Then John the bapt and then marry. This pattern is something that as scholars, we call a type scene. It's a whole scene, a whole event that seems to be a pattern. If you've read a lot of the Old Testament, you'll see there are a lot of these where you're like, wait, didn't that story just happen? They're a convention. We would call them like a trope in movies where you're like, oh, it's a rom com or it's a drama. And the same elements happen. In this type scene there are three main elements. A woman who is barren and a spiritual messenger comes to tell them and then they will have a special son. Those are the three steps you look for what's called the tilt or the twist. Robert alter My spirit animal calls it the tilt. So it's where it's interesting in the story, because if you told the same events, exactly the same in the patterns, it doesn't really teach you anything. So it seems like the Lord is using these patterns in our lives to teach us something, and he does it where it's different. It's a pattern that the Lord uses to teach us something about how he's going to work in their life. He shows up to what we think is going to be the deliverer. Then we meet the mom. She's barren. We don't know anything about them being old. Then he comes and he speaks to her, and then there's a lot of information about her and this baby, and that's going to be the twist. Now, before I tell you what it is, we'll just do a little quiz. When we started this podcast, we talked about a chapter that had a theme about people who were part of the covenant and what were they going to do? We'll see if you can see what the parallel is between chapter two and chapter 13. John, give it to us. What did the Lord tell them that he would never do, I would never do in chapter two?
- [22:29]
John
He would never break the covenant.
- [22:30]
Dr. Laurie Denning
Okay. Don't know if that's a clue. Could be a clue. But then let's read what happens. Let's go to 13 and let's do three. We'll go three through five, and it's going to be the story of this special son. And we're looking for how that's similar to what John just said.
- [22:46]
John
Okay, I'm still in nrsv. And the angel of the Lord appeared to the woman and said to her, although you are barren, having borne no children, you shall conceive and bear a son. Now be careful not to drink wine or strong drink or to eat anything unclean. For you shall conceive and bear a son. No razor is to come on his head, for the boy shall be a Nazirite to God from birth. It is he who shall begin to deliver Israel from the hand of the Philistines.
- [23:18]
Dr. Laurie Denning
Okay. Story's kind of the same as what we know. There's a woman who's barren. We don't know why, but they don't have a child. We know she has a husband, so we don't know why they're barren. But then an angel shows up and says, you're going to have a special son. We're not surprised that this boy is going to be the deliverer, but we are surprised about something Else says, don't let him drink and don't shave his hair. No razor. Because he will be a Nazarite. Now, that's not something we hear a ton about. And he's one of the famous. Of a Nazarite. Do you guys know what it is? Anybody know what that is or where that comes from?
- [23:53]
John
Or anything about means one that's separated or consecrated. It's not Nazareth.
- [23:59]
Dr. Laurie Denning
It's separated and consecrated for something. Excellent.
- [24:03]
Host
So you could take Nazarite vows for a specific period of time. It doesn't have to be your whole life. It can be. I'm going to take this vow for
- [24:12]
Dr. Laurie Denning
however long men and women can do it. And it's usually a special covenant that men or women take. And they covenant to separate themselves for a certain period of time, like 30 days. They would vow to do a number of things. They wouldn't cut their hair. They wouldn't be near any alcohol or grape or even like raisins or anything like that. Then they wouldn't be around a dead thing. So they're gonna be like priests that way that they're not gonna be near something dead. And then at the end of the vow, you would cut your hair and you would offer it on the altar. For those of you who are watching online. I don't know. This is super nerdy, but here's a nerdy fact. Do you remember the last time, what my hair was like last time I was on the show?
- [24:55]
John
Two years ago, you had a helmet on.
- [24:57]
Dr. Laurie Denning
I think I had a helmet. That is correct. Was it long or short? Do you remember?
- [25:01]
Host
It was short.
- [25:02]
Dr. Laurie Denning
It was short. Yeah. I had short hair. I have been growing out my hair for two years since I've been writing my dissertation on Samson. Yeah, except for my bangs because I couldn't pull it off. I didn't take a vow, but I have been growing it out. So that is why my hair is long. Because, I mean, how often can you say that you grew your hair out like Samson?
- [25:19]
Host
You're right. You're really getting into this dissertation.
- [25:23]
Dr. Laurie Denning
I am giving it my all, my very hair. But that's what he's doing, too. Now, here's where I think this is important. Not just because it's nerdy and cool, but the mother is also going to obey it while he's in the womb, before she's even conceived him. She is going to live the Nazarite vow. She's never released from it either. That we know of. What group of people in the book of judges are set apart even before born are born under the covenant.
- [25:51]
Host
He's a symbol of the house of Israel.
- [25:53]
Dr. Laurie Denning
That's right. He's Israel. He's us. We're Israel before we're even born. For most of us or we've chosen, we are Israel. So he is a symbol. He's the super covenant guy. The reason he's a Nazarite is because that idea again, what John said, I will never break my covenant, but you will. What are we going to see him do, break it? He's going to break every element, every one of them. From what we can tell if you're supposed to do these things, he does all of them. And we all know the hair one because the show or the movies are like his famous thing. But he also gets around dead things. He's gonna go to a lion and he's gonna put Henny in this lion's carcass. And then he's even gonna give it to his parents, which just kind of contaminates them for holiness. Then he's gonna go to a party. The party is actually called a drinking party. It doesn't show him drinking, but even going there potentially. Cause it says not even wine skins or vinegar. Like not even sour grapes or grape juice. He shouldn't even get close to this stuff. And then what does he do? Like, and then he's like, and you shouldn't marry the Philistines. And what's the first thing he's going to do? Let's marry a Philistine. I mean, he's just terrible. But again, he's not Samson in the story. In a way, he's Israel. He's us. You were supposed to be my special covenant people and you broke everything. And I love this one little aside. Just because I love the mom, she recognizes the angel right away. She's out by herself. She's out in a field. She's out working. So we met Gideon. He was out in a field and an angel showed up. Now here's another person out in the field. And an angel shows up and you're like, this is going to end like the Gideon story. And it is John, do you have verse six?
- [27:39]
John
Then the woman came and told her husband. A man of God came to me and his appearance was like that of an angel of God. Most awe inspiring. I did not ask of him where he came from, and he did not tell me his name.
- [27:53]
Dr. Laurie Denning
That's it. Now, something you lose not in the Hebrew and a lot in the English is it sounds like very calm. Instead it's going to do A thing that's called Parataxis. And parataxis is when it doesn't conclude, it just keeps going. And, and, and if you've ever met a toddler who's very excited about a story, they use parataxis. And he went here and then Santa came, and then the party came, and then the. Whatever. That's parataxis. So it's stumbling on each other. And that's how she reads it. Let me read it. She has this angel come. Then she runs to tell Manoah, and she's told her husband. A man of God came to me and his appearance was like that of an angel. And it was ah. And it was like awesome. And I didn't ask his name and I didn't even ask him where he's from. And then he said to me, you're going to conceive and a not drink thing and not do this. And he's going to be a Nazarite. Da, da, da. And you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
- [28:47]
Host
Slow down, slow down.
- [28:48]
Dr. Laurie Denning
It's very exciting when you read it in King James and whatever, it separates them and then. And. But no, she's stumbling over her words. What it's showing us is a covenant woman who sees and recognizes that angel. She knows that this is who this is and it's only done contrasted by her husband. So let's read about him. Just so you see the difference. Verse 8, she runs and repeats the whole story. We're going to have a baby and he's going to be special. And I didn't even ask that angel. It was so cool. And then it's. And so. And it's going to slow down and we're going to meet Manoah, the husband. So let's read it. Verse 8.
- [29:29]
John
Then Manoah entreated the Lord and said, O Lord, I pray, let the man of God whom you sent come to us again and teach us what we are to do concerning the boy who will be born.
- [29:40]
Dr. Laurie Denning
You guys, she just saw an angel. And he's like, I better pray about that. God, did you tell us about a baby? Okay. And you're like, all right, maybe not bad. Guess that's okay. And then the next verse, God listened to Manoah and the angel comes again. To whom?
- [29:58]
John
The woman.
- [29:59]
Dr. Laurie Denning
The woman. And where is she again?
- [30:02]
John
In the field, working.
- [30:04]
Dr. Laurie Denning
Where's he? No idea. You're gonna see this irony that she's the one that sees and recognizes the angel. She's the one that is active and breathless. And he's the one like, we better pray about that. And then he says, what should we do? And the angel shows up and says back to the woman who gets it and says, you, husband isn't even there. So she runs and gets her husband. And then she says, the man who came to me the other day, he's appeared, and Manoah got up, and he follows his wife, and they go out and what does he say? Are you the man? Yes. He says, yeah, I'm the man. She didn't ask who you are. She knew immediately it was an angel, a man of God, a messenger. He's like, are you the guy? The guy he'd been praying for, the guy she said was the angel. So she goes, hey, come with me. Are you the man? I am. Manoah says, when the stuff you promised us come true, what are we supposed to do with them again? You can almost hear the angel sigh. Well, the same thing. Listen to what your woman said and then go through the list of the Nazarite vow. Then Manoah says, well, maybe we can make a meal for you. And the angel's like, well, I can't eat that food. We're going to do it anyway. And Manoah's just the slowest dude ever, by the way. Samson takes after his dad. He's very slow. So he goes and he makes it. And then the angel, I can't eat your food. And then it goes up into flames. And the angel goes up. And the manoah says, oh, no, that was an angel. We might die. And the wife's like, you silly goose, we would have died. He wouldn't have asked us. Forget it. Forget it. I can't even help you. The end. That's my version of the woman of Manoah. But remember, it's about Covenant Israel. She recognizes. And they use a lot of sensory terms, right? She sees and she hears. She sees that it's the angel. She hears his message and Manoah doesn't. And her voice is active. His name also comes from the word Noah, if you know that term. And it means rest or idleness. I call him Mr. Lazybones. So there was a man, and his name was Mr. Lazybones. And he's never in the field working, and he's slow to figure it out. And he doesn't recognize the spiritual messenger. He doesn't hear the message, and he has to be repeated over and over again. He's Covenant Israel or us. At times, we don't always get it. And then Here comes the wife. Oh, wow. I've had the spiritual experience. And he's like, that's interesting. She's, like, excited and stumbling. And he's like, now what do you think we should do with the boy? All the stuff that I just told you. All the stuff you just told me. So, like, the nazarite stuff, I wonder. That's a really good idea. It's a beautiful story about the covenant all in one. It's a story about a person who hears, doing their daily work and steps up when the lord is in their life. A person who gets the call and runs to action. She is one of the unsung heroes of scripture. This woman has an angel come to her she recognizes, and she lives as a nazarite as well. Pretty cool. It's a great story. One thing that scripture does is it doesn't always use anonymity, being anonymous as diminishing. Instead, what it does is it allows them to be universal, or we can see ourselves in them. Anonymity doesn't mean that they're less. Oh, this is a woman. We don't name them. It means we can see ourselves in them. Right. It's not the guy in my ward that we all know. And then we discount it because he's a guy we know. It's like, wait a minute. That could be me. Or she could be a type of a faithful saint. Men and women just be really cautious when we say, well, the women aren't named as much because a lot of the men aren't named in this story either. They use it as a tool so we can see ourselves in the story.
- [34:14]
Host
You told it so well. Manoa's like, wait, what? We could have died.
- [34:23]
Dr. Laurie Denning
We could have died. I can just see her saying, I don't even know what I'm supposed to do with him.
- [34:28]
Host
If the lord was pleased to kill us, he would not have had this entire conversation with us.
- [34:35]
Dr. Laurie Denning
Why would he say we're having a baby and do all this if he was going to kill us? I don't know.
- [34:39]
Host
We shall surely die.
- [34:41]
Dr. Laurie Denning
For the Israelites. It's kind of a condemnation. We don't even see the lord when he's standing, or his messenger sometimes when he's standing right in front of us, even when miraculous things have happened. What other things do you need? I've already done all this stuff, and, yeah, maybe that's us sometimes, too, right?
- [35:02]
Host
Laurie, I don't want to move you ahead here, but you listed all these stories, these type. What'd you call them?
- [35:10]
Dr. Laurie Denning
Type?
- [35:10]
Host
Seen I noticed that out of these, there's someone who is not having a baby. The angel says, you're gonna have a baby. This will be his name. They almost always turn out to be incredible people. Except for this one. Is this a what could have been type of story? Could have been a John the Baptist, a Jesus, an Isaac.
- [35:33]
Dr. Laurie Denning
Yeah, he was supposed to be deliverer, and he's the last judge. So he was supposed to be the last judge of his people. Yet you know he's going to fail in the cycle. They tend to be oppressed, and then they pray or they cry out. There's no crying out. He also doesn't seem to ever pray. The only time he prays twice in the story, once because he's so thirsty he might die. Thanks. So it's all about me, then. The next, if you know the story, he's going to be blinded, and then he's going to be chained to the pillars next to him at the temple of Dagon, the Philistine God. The only time he prays to God is for vengeance on his eyes. Give me back my strength so I can kill all these people because of what they did to me. He's that covenant person who could have had everything. But he doesn't. He seems to be a tale of the special covenant sons and daughters who could have had the Lord in their life and at any time could have turned and repented, yet didn't. And remember, it's a cautionary tale. It does say that the spirit of the Lord came upon him a number of times. He's going to marry a Philistine woman. I want to just call out one thing about her. Before we go to the Delilah story, let's go to the next chapter. And I just want to call out something that I think our viewers will really hear as covenant people. I was go to 14. 2. Now we're going to be introduced to the special son. So the next chapter, you turn the page. Now it's adult Samson. We're finally introduced to this deliver. It's Samson. His name means Sunny. It means like shimshon, means Sunny. Delilah's name sounds like Lila, which means darkness. Now you're meeting Sunny. We'll call him Samson. And then verse 14, verse 2. And let's hear the first words. Now, let me tell you another literary trick. We don't always learn a lot about the backstory of characters. Now, we just did with Samson, but for a lot of them, we don't know that much about them. I've said if they describe anything about their physical characteristics important to the story. That is true. And his strongness. He's going to be very strong. But here's another thing that you can learn about the backstory. There isn't a lot of backstory, but one of them is the first spoken words by a character often reveal their inner nature. The first spoken words by a character in the Old Testament can often be their inner character. They reveal who they really are. So these are going to be Samson's first words. All right, John, do you have it? 2. 14.
- [38:05]
Host
2.
- [38:06]
Dr. Laurie Denning
Yeah.
- [38:06]
John
14. 2. Then he came up and told his father and mother, I saw a Philistine woman at Timna. Now get her for me as my wife.
- [38:16]
Dr. Laurie Denning
So delightful. He says, I saw a Philistine woman. Philistines, covenant people. Non covenant people.
- [38:24]
Host
Non covenant.
- [38:26]
Dr. Laurie Denning
Non covenant people. And you'll remember that with David and Goliath, there's the Philistines. They're the ultimate bad guys, the Philistines bad guys. So if he's going to be the special covenant son, and the very first thing he says is, I can't wait to get married, and will you go get that Philistine wife for me? Is he being very true to the covenant?
- [38:48]
Host
He does not care about the covenant at.
- [38:51]
Dr. Laurie Denning
Yeah, he doesn't at all. In fact, he's aligning himself. He's marrying. Now, he uses two verbs here that you might not catch in the nrsv. It translates one of them. I would translate it differently. I saw. Now, it's called taking a wife. So he says, I saw and I took. Now, that's what we call a motif or a pattern that runs throughout Scripture. It's used a number of other times. David sees and takes Bathsheba. One of his sons sees and takes the spoils. Instead of waiting for the Lord to give us things, we see it and we take it. Not only is the first thing, I want a wife of the Philistines, but I saw it, and I want you to take it. Like, how's that going to work out? As you can guess, not very well. They end up burning her to death. So not great. The first thing we're learning about this covenant, son, is that he's fairly far removed from his covenant obedience. I saw, I took. And you're like, oh, no. And I want to take what? A Philistine wife. I want to marry outside the covenant. And his parents show back up here, and they're like, are you sure? Are you sure you want to do that? I always think of him as kind of ooga booga. Talker. Like, I just want it. Give it to me. He's kind of a big dumb guy. He's like, yeah, get her for me because she pleases me. Then it has this little aside. But his father and his mother didn't know it was from the Lord, for she was seeking a pretext to act against the Philistines. Anytime you get a narrative aside like that, Mormon does it all the time in the Book of Mormon. But, you know, it doesn't happen very much in the Old Testament. It happens because it's weird. It's telling you that the covenant son should not be asking 4. This is bad. If you were reading this as an ancient person, you'd be like, what? What did he just ask for? A Philistine wife? And they're like, yeah, we know. That's really terrible. It's an aside. And it was really terrible. But God's gonna work it out, so just hold on. And you're like, okay, because that seems pretty bad. And he's a Nazarite, and you're like, I know. I know it's bad. Just hold on. And then he goes on, and then it doesn't end well with the wife. He leaves her. He poses a stupid riddle to his friends. Not even a riddle. He kills a lion. Then he comes and he poses a riddle to the Philistines. Hey, if you can tell me what the riddle is, I'll get you 13 sets of armor. 13 expensive pairs of clothing. They're like, okay, I guess. And he goes, if not, I'll kill you. And they're like, I guess we're playing this game. So fun game. Fun wedding party game. And so he comes and he says, you've probably seen this. It's a little poem that he says, out of the eater came something to eat. And out of the strong came something to sweet. Now remember, he kills a lion, and then when he walks back through town, he sees that bees have made a hive in there. And so there's honey out of the eater. A lion's an eater. It may come something to eat honey, but out of the strong, you know, the lion. Same. Something sweet. It's not really a riddle. Like, you would have to know that there was a lion on the road that he killed. But they don't. They don't get it. So they go to his wife. Tell us what it is, or we'll burn you with fire. This is serious. So she is panicked. No matter what she answers, she's in trouble. The man who's supposed to protect her her husband is a threat. If she doesn't tell her, people will kill her. So this poor woman, she's like, you don't love me, Tell me the answer. Finally she. We say it's nagging, but I think it's like survival. She says, okay, she wept for seven days. She finally tells her then, hey, do you know the poem? And they're like, yeah, it's cause you slept with my wife. So they burn her. Anyway, the end. Then he goes to a prostitute. Good work. And there's no speaking. This is just, I've crossed over and chooses wrongly. And then tears down the gates and runs off with them. So he's violent, it's aggressive. There's no conversation, there's nothing. He's just this action guy, but not in a good way. So he goes to a prostitute. He goes from being covenant son on the border to completely gone at this point. Now something's gonna happen when we turn to the second half of this chapter where he goes to Delilah. He's already fairly corrupt. Delilah doesn't corrupt him. She just shows what's already happened. It doesn't ever say Delilah's a Philistine, but the Philistines do pay her a large amount of money to say, find out what his secret is. Why is he so strong? Delilah's story is probably the most famous of all stories in the book of Judges. It's usually told like she's bewitching him or beguiling him or seducing him. But you've already seen, he was already there. Let's go to the story. I want to point out just a couple of things. It starts in verse four. Something interesting. The verb is going to change how it describes what he does with this woman. So, John, do you have verse four?
- [43:56]
John
Yeah. After this. He fell in love with a woman in the valley of Sorek whose name was Delilah.
- [44:03]
Dr. Laurie Denning
He fell in love with a woman. Now, love, typically in the Old Testament, doesn't mean passionate romantic love. Oh, if it did. But there is a commandment that uses this word. You might have heard it because I believe it's one of the main commandments. You shall love the Lord your God. What's love typically associated with? Covenant. What's the theme of this book? Covenant. I will never break my covenant. What is he doing? I fell in love. I gave my allegiance. My love to someone else. She is from a special place. The valley of Sorek. Well, that's like right downtown. Philistineville. He's now on the border. Timnah. He's Crossed over. And her name was Darkness. I wonder how this story's gonna end up. He's going to be blind and in darkness because he fell in love. He's completely gone by the time he gets there. He gives his love to her. Don't think this is a romantic story. This is a covenant failure story. So they say, find out what his strength is. And then there are these four instances where he lays in her lap and the Philistines are in the room, by the way, they're right there. Like he knows exactly what's going on. They say, subdue him and we'll give you a gazillion dollars. She says, you know, tell me your strength. And then he goes through and he says, you know, if they do this thing with bowstrings, I'll be weak. Then the Philistines brought her the bowstrings and they tied him up. And then, I love this. This is where it says, they're there. And the men were in wait in the inner chamber. And they're like, okay, we're here. And then she says, the Philistines are upon you, Samson. And he goes, and he tears through them. Now he's going to do it three more times, and it's going to get closer and closer to the truth. So the first time, it's bowstrings. The second time's it's new rope. The third time, weave my hair. Okay, we're getting close to the secret. The secret was his hair can't be cut. Now, who had the secret about his hair? Do you remember who was told about his hair?
- [46:17]
Host
His mom.
- [46:18]
Dr. Laurie Denning
It was his mom. The only people that know the secret covenant are the mothers. We don't hear when he hears it, but he gives it to another woman. He's giving his love, his allegiance, his covenant. The covenant secret is never spoken to Manoah. And in fact, it's only spoken to the mom because you're supposed to remember it. Then he finally says, well, it's my hair, but it's tied. And they're like, okay, no version three. And then finally in four, the fourth time, it's my hair. I've never had my hair shaven. That's the Nazarite covenant. She has a man shave him. She doesn't even do it. Remember the mothering theme that we've seen? It's like an anti mother. His head is on her lap. She shaves him. They're going to blind him. He becomes weak. And then it says, the spirit of the Lord left him and he did not know. He doesn't even know that his strength has left. He becomes like a baby again. He's blind, bald, weak in a woman's lap. It's not the mother of Israel. It's the Delilah, the anti mother who becomes trapped. Then I think that line where it says that he didn't know. Verse 20. She said, the last time the Philistines are upon you, Samson. When he awoke from his sleep, he thought, I will go out as the other times and shake myself free. But he did not know that the Lord had left him. That's the cautionary tale. Don't give up the covenant, because then the Lord and you don't even know. He doesn't even recognize that he's given it up. That's where they seize him. They gouge out his eyes. And then they bring him in shackles and he becomes just a millstone. And then of course, it grows back. And that's where he is going to go to the party. His hair's grown back. He's still blind. And he asked the boy, that's like walking him along because he's blind. Well, chain me to the pillars. So they chain his hands out to the pillars. And then this is where he prays. One of the only times, lord, remember me and strengthen me with this one act of revenge that I may pay back the Philistines for my eyes. He's not praying for his people. He's not praying for repentance. He tears it down and kills them all. Which does help his people because the enemies are defeated, but not because he cared about his people. See, all the elements of your parents were there. You were a special child. You had the covenant. You had the spirit of the Lord. You had your special strength. You just gave it away. First it was the dead thing. Then you were at the alcoholic party. Then you did all the covenants that you were given, you walked away from then. You didn't even care in the end. You didn't even know that the spirit of the Lord had left you. You're so far removed. It's a terrible cautionary tale to us as covenant people that the Lord's saying, you are my covenant people. But, John, do you remember the first thing the Lord taught us in chapter two?
- [49:28]
John
Yeah, I do. But I will never break my covenant with you.
- [49:35]
Dr. Laurie Denning
Yeah, we can always return. We can always come back. He's waiting for us to extend his hand to come back. There's one last line in the whole book of Judges that sums it up. It doesn't say, he's ever redeemed. He does put him in Hebrews 11, in the hall of heroes. But I think it's because the Lord keeps using these people, keeps using them even though they're weak, rather than, they did such a good job. Let's go to the very last verse, though, and this is where it ends very sadly, on a very strong and cautionary tale. It's the last verse.
- [50:10]
John
Judges 21:25, Judges 21:25. In those days, there was no king in Israel. All the people did what was right in their own eyes.
- [50:22]
Dr. Laurie Denning
Who's the true king they should be following? They were doing whatever they wanted to do. It ends on that. And then you turn the page and go, well, that was very sad. That was terrible.
- [50:33]
Host
It's a Shakespearean tragedy.
- [50:36]
Dr. Laurie Denning
Yeah. Wah, wah. But we're covenant people. And it isn't the wars that we fight. It's the snares. It's the altars that we don't tear down in our lives. The Lord's like, I will never break my covenant. You can always come back. I am your king. You can follow me. And none of these things need to happen. That's, I think, the message of Judges. The Lord will deliver his people. The end.
- [51:01]
Host
I can tell when I've had a good day is that my hand is tired from writing. I have so many notes. I didn't have a lot of notes in Judges before this.
- [51:12]
John
Yeah, me too. I wrote a lot of new things now.
- [51:15]
Dr. Laurie Denning
You guys are cute, but it's kind of sad.
- [51:18]
John
Yeah. What do we do with it?
- [51:21]
Dr. Laurie Denning
We learn from it. And I think you can. I love that each of the judges, even Samson, at times, he has this great strength and this powerful parent. The spirit is still with him at times, that there's still hope that they can return. And there are times when the Lord steps in and saves them. The Lord is telling us, I'm right there all along. Just need to turn back to me. So it doesn't need to end this way. There's a lot of hope. Even though this book doesn't seem like it. You have to tear down the altars, the stumbling blocks in your life. You cannot just step into these snares. You cannot invite the stuff in your life and then hope it works out. It won't. And if we're not worried about that, it's trying to tell us you should be. But there's hope. The Lord can be your king and he will never break his covenant. It's just hope laced with a lot of sadness, a lot of caution. And again, the last chapters are very gruesome and definitely not for children. There's an assault and some different things. It's not one that you're Gonna wanna read 17 and through 19 with your family unless you read it first. Adults. So please know that it just goes worse from here. But it is not a tale for children.
- [52:37]
Host
I like warning signs. I've been in many places where I've seen a warning sign and looked and thought, no, I'm not going to go over there. If you ever see one of those electric fences, the ones that can really, like, kill you, there's a warning sign, like, every six feet. That's like, the Book of Judges. Don't do this. Don't go this way.
- [52:58]
Dr. Laurie Denning
I've seen it at the beach as well, where it's like, no swimming. There's a riptide, and then people will be swimming and you're like. Or I've seen it on mountainsides where it's like, don't ski down this cliff. There's always someone that they were towed out to sea or they went off the cliff and you're like, why did they go past that sign?
- [53:17]
Host
The Book of Judges can be a big warning sign. Yeah. Your story does not have to end this way. You can choose.
- [53:24]
Dr. Laurie Denning
I will raise up a prophet, and you can ask the prophet to go with you, and you can have friends and family that will support you. And you can always turn back. There is hope. He does have a path in here for us. It's just one that he wants to be sure we're really clear as Covenant people that we follow him.
- [53:42]
John
Did you hear how she ended with we follow him? Did you catch that? That was good. Good job, Laurie.
- [53:48]
Host
Oh, by the way, Laurie, almost every woman in this book is good.
- [53:53]
Dr. Laurie Denning
There are some good ones. I think the women are trying to be a little bit of narrative markers where they can choose to follow the covenant or not. There are about 22 women, 22 named and unnamed women in the book. Caleb's daughter is in it right in the beginning. And then woman of Manoah, Deborah Jael. So a lot of great Covenant people and excellent heroines that we sometimes miss. But there's some good guys in there, too. But there's some great women in the story.
- [54:23]
Host
John, by the way, if you want to have a fun time in the scriptures, you read them with Lori Danning. You learn and you learn.
- [54:31]
Dr. Laurie Denning
I gotta put the hat back on.
- [54:32]
John
Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Put the helmet of feathers back on. She said something at the beginning that I think she was joking. Who knows more about the Book of Judges than this guest we've had today?
- [54:44]
Dr. Laurie Denning
There are two of us now, and I'm one of them. Not many people have studied this book. Yeah, I don't know why, but you
- [54:51]
John
have a PhD in judges.
- [54:53]
Dr. Laurie Denning
Just the back half of judges.
- [54:56]
Host
One of my favorite things as a young seminary teacher was when someone like Laurie would come and teach us and we would spend hours and I would walk away with these kind of notes in my scriptures where there's just no way I could know all this. But to have someone guide you through it and to do it in such a fun way. Lori, we're grateful for your talents. Thank you for being with us today.
- [55:19]
Dr. Laurie Denning
Well, thanks. It is a challenge to make this a spiritual story, but I'm grateful that the Lord cautions us and loves us and welcomes us back with open arms. When you need a fleece, he's there to give it. When you need a mother in Israel, she's there. You need a joash who will step in the gap. They're there, too. And it's got some powerful messages of the Lord's love for us and our covenant strength that we can do if we just tap into it. But I get it. It's kind of a terrible story also. I get it. If it's not your favorite book. It's not typically everyone's favorite book, but it could be.
- [55:48]
Host
But pay attention to the caution signs. They're very important. They can keep you safe. With that, we want to thank Dr. Laurie Denning for being with us today. We want to thank our executive producer, Shannon Sorensen, our sponsors, David and Verla Sorensen. And every episode, we remember our founder, Steve Sorensen. We hope you'll join us next week. We're into the Book of Ruth on Follow Him. As a thank you to our wonderful listeners, we'd love to gift you the digital version of our book, Finding Jesus Christ in the Old Testament. It offers short, meaningful insights drawn from our past Old Testament episodes. Visit followhim.co. that's followhim.co. to download your free copy today and you'll also find the link to purchase the print edition. Thank you for being part of our Follow him family. Of course, none of this could happen without our incredible production crew, David Perry, Lisa Spice, Will Stoughton, Crystal Roberts, Ariel Cuadra, Heather Barlow, Amelia Kabwica, Sydney Smith, and Annabelle Sorenson. Whatever questions or problems you have, the answer is always found in the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. Turn to him. Follow him.