Podcast Summary: followHIM — Moses 1 and Abraham 3, Part 2 with Dr. Philip Allred

Hosts: Hank Smith & John Bytheway
Guest: Dr. Philip Allred
Episode Focus: A deep exploration of Moses 1 and Abraham 3—how these chapters from the Pearl of Great Price explore the cosmic and personal nature of God, human suffering, identity, purpose, the adversary, and the ultimate work and glory of God.

Overview of Main Theme

This episode continues an in-depth discussion of Moses 1 and Abraham 3, focusing on how these unique scriptures reveal both the grandeur of God’s creations and His personal, intimate connection with us. Through scholarly and personal insights, Dr. Philip Allred helps listeners connect sacred texts to real-life struggles like suffering, parenting, and faith crises, emphasizing agency, divine purpose, and the assurance that God’s work is both cosmic and individual.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Suffering, Agency, and Perspective

• Supporting Our Children in Trials:
  • Dr. Allred shares personal struggles, reaffirming doctrine that mortal hardships—especially watching loved ones, like children, suffer—can become “agency-inviting opportunities” for growth and conversion (00:34).
  • Quote: “To think celestial is to flip the perspective on this as being so negative and so wrong and so unequal or unfair. Instead, to see, oh, this doctrine provides a vision for which... no pain that we suffer, no trial that we experience is wasted, but rather ministers to the development, our education and the development of our qualities.” — Dr. Philip Allred (01:12)
• The Long Game of Salvation:
  • Dr. Allred shares a personal revelation: “Phil, salvation and exaltation are very long games.”
  • He describes feeling assurance that God knows perfectly how to save and exalt His children because He has done so for “worlds after worlds after worlds” (03:07).
  • Quote: “There isn't anything about saving and exalting my kids that I'm in the dark on or that I'm not totally proficient in and have done worlds after worlds after worlds.” — Dr. Philip Allred (03:30)

2. Moses 1—Structure and Personal Encounters

• Three Episodes in Moses 1 (11:10):

  1. Moses on the mountain, face-to-face with God (verses 1–11)
  2. The adversary’s confrontation (verses 12–24)
  3. Renewal in God’s presence and cosmic vision (verses 25–41)

• The Intimacy of God’s Knowledge:

  • Verse-by-verse dive: God calls Moses by name, assures him He knows him and his work.
  • Dr. Allred stresses God’s desire for a real, personal relationship, echoing Christ’s teachings of knowing and being known (05:14–09:00).
  • “He is very, very committed to making sure each of these sons of his know him and that he knows them.” — Dr. Philip Allred (06:02)

3. God, Christ, and Divine Investiture

• Who is Speaking to Moses?
  • The voice in Moses 1 is the premortal Christ (Jehovah), speaking with the invested authority of the Father (12:55).
  • “The communication always occurs [through] divine investiture of authority, while it's Jehovah speaking... He's that messenger, it sounds like it’s the Father.” — Dr. Philip Allred (13:22)

4. Counterfeit vs. Real—The Adversary's Attack

• Experiencing Darkness After Light:
  • After Moses' spiritual high, Satan confronts him, attempting to confuse identity and authority (16:46–20:59).
  • Recognizing Counterfeits: Real spiritual experiences help us discern the adversary’s imitations.
  • “You have to... have enough experiences with the real thing that you can recognize the counterfeit thing.” — John Bytheway (20:59)
  • “All you seem to be doing is raising questions. I want to go to the person that actually has answers.” — Dr. Philip Allred (28:42)
• Agency and Persistence:
  • Moses asserts agency—“nevertheless”—calls on God, and defeats Satan not through logic, but by invoking the Savior's name (29:44–32:18).
  • Quote: “In the name of the only begotten, depart hence Satan… He now appealed to a power beyond his own.” — Dr. Philip Allred quoting Elder L. Edward Brown (32:26)

5. Taking On Christ’s Name—Covenant Path

• Dallin H. Oaks’ Five Ways:
  • Baptism, sacrament, public proclamation, temple covenants, and ultimate future calling in Christ’s name (34:47–37:00).
  • “It wasn’t a destination. It’s a path that stretches forward into the house of God...” — Dr. Philip Allred (36:10)

6. The Cosmic and the Personal

• God’s Work: Innumerable Worlds & Intimate Knowledge
  • Moses is shown God’s creations: numberless worlds, yet God knows each person (42:38).
  • “You can't number them all, but they are mine and I know them.” — Dr. Philip Allred (45:00)
• Moses 1:39 as Mission Statement:
  • “This is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.”
  • Personalizes divine purpose; immortal life is guaranteed, but eternal life is chosen (46:45–48:45).
  • “Every one of you are my work and glory.” — Dr. Philip Allred (47:10)
• Counterpoint: The Mission of Satan
  • “He seeketh that all men might be miserable, like unto himself.” (2 Nephi 2:27, discussed at 61:00)

7. Purpose, Eternity, and Divine Family

• Why Creation?
  • Both personal yearning (“Why am I here?”) and cosmic scale: the why of it all is answered.
  • “I would want to know why. Because then I would have purpose.” — John Bytheway, paraphrasing Einstein (59:32)
• Heaven Is Not Boredom
  • Prophets look forward to an embodied, creative, joyful existence—earth celestialized for eternal family living (50:54–57:33):
    • “A heaven with lands, houses, cities, vegetation... inhabited by glorified material beings, male and female, organized into families... where sorrow, crying, pain and death will be known no more.” — Orson Pratt, quoted by Dr. Allred (56:05)

8. Assurances for Parents and the Suffering

• It’s God’s Work, Not Just Ours:
  • “This is my work, my glory... and I am able to do my work.” — John Bytheway (62:38)
  • “He’s good at this. He knows what he’s doing.” (63:40)
• Gospel Application for Hard Times:
  • Referencing Jacob 5: The Lord knows the difficulties of our “spot of ground.”
  • “I knew what I was doing.” — John, referencing the Lord in Jacob 5 (64:54)

9. Personal Testimony — The BYU Steps Story

• Dr. Allred shares a formative story of academic failure, divine promise, and ultimate fulfillment—illustrating God’s intimate involvement in individual life (67:58–74:47).
• “Not only are you going to teach here, you're actually going to teach right here.” — John Bytheway (74:43)

10. Retaining Spiritual Experience

• Living with Memory of the Mountain:
  • Worldly valleys follow spiritual peaks—but “one has seen,” and that knowledge sustains (74:47–76:22).
  • “There is an art of conducting oneself in the lower regions by the memory of what one saw higher up. When one can no longer see, one can at least still know.” — René Dumas, quoted by Dr. Allred (75:30)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Salvation and exaltation are very long games.” — Dr. Philip Allred (03:02)
• “He tells me, Phil, there’s not one thing about salvation and exaltation that I don’t know.” (03:40)
• “Moses realized that while he was nothing, he was somebody... because he was a son of God.” — Elder Neil L. Andersen, quoted by Dr. Allred (25:29)
• “All you seem to be doing is raising questions. I want to go to the person that actually has answers.” — Dr. Philip Allred (28:42)
• “I created you for your own immortality and eternal life and the kind of life that I live.” — Hank Smith (58:52)
• “We shall do in eternity the things we have learned to do in time, but we will do them better there than here.” — Orson F. Whitney, quoted by Dr. Allred (55:18)
• “He’s got you. The Lord’s got you. He knows what He’s doing. He’s good at it.” — Hank Smith (63:40)
• “There is an art of conducting oneself in the lower regions by the memory of what one saw higher up.” — Dr. Philip Allred, quoting René Dumas (75:30)
• “Whatever questions or problems you have, the answer is always found in the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. Turn to him. Follow him.” — Dr. Philip Allred (79:07)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:34: Suffering and agency in family life
• 03:02: Revelation about God's mastery in salvation
• 05:14–11:10: Personal insights in Moses 1
• 11:10: Structural overview of Moses 1
• 12:55: Jesus as Jehovah speaking to Moses
• 16:46–21:48: The adversary’s counterfeit versus God’s real light
• 25:29: Elder Andersen quotation on identity and hope
• 28:42: The adversary only offers questions, God offers answers
• 32:18: Power of invoking Christ’s name (Elder Brown)
• 34:47–37:00: Dallin H. Oaks’ five ways of taking Christ’s name
• 42:36–45:00: Moses’ cosmic vision; God’s intimate knowledge
• 46:45–48:45: The work and glory—mission statement
• 50:54–56:05: Purpose and activities in the Celestial Kingdom (Whitney and Pratt)
• 59:32–61:00: Why the universe exists; the why of God’s work
• 62:38–63:40: Parental assurance: It’s God’s work
• 67:58–74:47: Dr. Allred’s BYU Testing Center Story
• 75:30: Living by memory of spiritual peaks
• 79:07: Final testimony—always look to Christ for answers

Tone and Conclusion

The tone is reverent, earnest, and scholarly but also deeply personal—full of empathy, humility, and assurance in God’s capacity to rescue and exalt His children, no matter their struggles. Dr. Allred, Hank, and John blend scriptural exegesis with personal anecdotes, weaving together the grand cosmic plan and the private, individual experiences that testify of God’s love. The episode concludes with Allred’s testimony that, whatever our questions or problems, “the answer is always found in the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. Turn to him. Follow him.”