followHIM Podcast: "Voices of the Restoration #12 • Baptism for Our Ancestors, ‘A Glorious Doctrine’"

Hosts: Hank Smith & John Bytheway
Guest: Dr. Gerrit Dirkmaat
Original Air Date: November 4, 2025
Come, Follow Me: Doctrine and Covenants 137–138

Episode Overview

This episode, the twelfth in the "Voices of the Restoration" series, explores the profound Latter-day Saint doctrine of baptism for the dead—its historical context, theological significance, and emotional impact on early Saints. With historian Dr. Gerrit Dirkmaat as the featured guest, hosts Hank Smith and John Bytheway dive deep into how baptism for deceased ancestors not only expanded the Latter-day Saint understanding of salvation but also set it dramatically apart from mainstream Christian thought. The discussion features insights from early Saints' writings and modern perspectives on family, agency, and hope, providing a comprehensive look at this "glorious doctrine."

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Stage: Salvation and Baptism in Early Christianity

[05:03–13:00]

• Dr. Dirkmaat explains that most Protestant and Catholic Christians in Joseph Smith's era agreed on a strict salvation requirement: faith in Jesus before death. Not being baptized or lacking faith meant eternal damnation.
• Latter-day Saints, from their beginnings, challenged this by teaching baptism as an essential ordinance—not just a symbolic gesture, but required for salvation.
• Early LDS revelations (D&C 20, 22, 74) gradually shifted converts’ understanding from salvation by faith alone to the necessity of baptism by proper authority.
• Quote:
  “The very fact that we're saying that when Jesus said you need to believe and be baptized, he meant it... That it's an essential part is already a problem.”
  —Dr. Dirkmaat [07:31]

2. The Problem of Fairness: What About the Unbaptized Dead?

[13:00–24:00]

• Joseph Smith long grappled with the fate of the virtuous unbaptized dead, such as his beloved brother Alvin, whom many contemporary Christians assured him was lost.
• Early revelations (like D&C 76 and 137) revealed there are multiple kingdoms, and that those who would have accepted the gospel will be saved—but did not yet explain how.
• The apparent contradiction—baptism is essential, yet some are saved without it—remained unresolved for years.
• Quote:
  “Joseph and... every member of the church in 1836 had to believe an absolute contradiction. They had to believe that baptism was essential for celestial glory. And also it wasn't essential for celestial glory... There was more revelation that had to come.”
  —Dr. Dirkmaat [19:09]

3. Radical New Revelation: Baptism for the Dead

[24:00–37:45]

• In 1840, at Seymour Brunson’s funeral, Joseph Smith publicly introduces baptism for the dead.

• The doctrine was radical—unlike anything in 1800 years of Christianity, it provided a path for all to accept the gospel after death.

• Letters from early LDS women (Phoebe Woodruff, Vilate Kimball) to missionary husbands in England captured the Saints’ joy and excitement.

  • Phoebe Woodruff’s letter:
    “Brother Joseph has learned by revelation that those in this church may be baptized for any of their relatives who are dead and had not a privilege of hearing this gospel... This doctrine is cordially received by the church, and they are going forward in multitudes.”
    —Phoebe Woodruff [31:12]
  • Wilford Woodruff:
    “The moment I heard of it, my soul leaped with joy... I felt to say hallelujah.”
    [32:20]

• Joseph writes the Quorum of the Twelve to clarify the doctrine; proceeds with further instructions and ties to 1 Corinthians 15:29 (“baptism for the dead”).

4. Scriptural Foundations & Ongoing Revelation

[37:45–54:45]

• Baptism for the dead, though rooted in New Testament reference (1 Corinthians 15:29), is largely dismissed or unexplained by other Christian commentaries.
• LDS teaching: all generations will receive a fair opportunity, even if it requires millennial work due to incomplete genealogical records.
  • “Even when people are like, oh, I can trace myself all the way back to King Henry... think of how small that is in the span of the entirety of the world... Clearly, a great deal of this work is going to be done when we have full access.”
    —Dr. Dirkmaat [53:37]

5. Why Do the Work Now? The Joy of Redeeming the Dead

[54:45–58:08]

• Even though much work may remain for the Millennium, Latter-day Saints participate now out of love and a desire to share joy with ancestors.
• “When you have the good news, you can't help it... Why do I go do temple work? Because it sure matters to those people that I go and I do temple work for now.”
  —Dr. Dirkmaat [57:03]

6. Wrestling with Unknowns: Humility, Patience, and Trust

[58:08–70:55]

• Many practical and doctrinal questions about the next life (e.g., complex family situations, how sealings are adjudicated) remain unanswered.
• The restoration came “line upon line, precept upon precept,” and so must our individual understanding develop.
• Advice to listeners: Don’t let unanswered questions about process or details undermine faith in the revealed principles.
  • Quote:
    “Don’t allow the fact that you don’t have answers cause you to stop believing that there are answers... I don’t know how ceilings work, but I know they work because God said they did.”
    —Dr. Dirkmaat [62:19]

7. Finding Strength in the Faith of Early Saints

[75:52–85:16]

• The hosts and Dr. Dirkmaat share the example of Emmaline Anderson, who suffered great loss during the expulsion from Nauvoo yet remained focused on gathering names for temple work.
  • “One request I have to make of you, and I beg it... that one of you take and find out the names of all of our progenitors as far back as you can and send it to me in a letter. Do this, and God shall reward you for it.”
    —Emmaline Anderson’s letter [78:48]
• Modern Saints should not “casually give away your faith,” remembering the sacrifices of those who came before.

8. The Emotional and Spiritual Impact of Temple Work

[85:16–94:34]

• Temple ordinances for the dead are not just rituals but foster deep spiritual connections and hope.
  • “Those who had been worked for would fall at the feet of those who had done their work, kiss their feet, embrace their knees, and manifest the most exquisite gratitude... We do not comprehend what a blessing to them these ordinances are.”
    —Horace Cummings' account [85:16]
• Each temple acts as a physical witness of the Latter-day Saint belief in the afterlife and universal redemption.

9. Conclusion: Faith, Patience, and “Strong Meat”

[94:41–end]

• Final thoughts return to the immensity and beauty of the doctrine—“strong meat” that fulfills and transcends Christian hopes for ultimate justice and mercy.
  • “This is the doctrine we should shout from the rooftops... That God has declared that everyone is actually loved, not just saying the words loved.”
    —Dr. Dirkmaat [85:16]
• Listeners are encouraged to read more voices of early Saints and embrace both the revealed doctrine and the ongoing process of revelation.
• The episode ends with gratitude among the hosts and guest for the opportunity to study and teach these powerful doctrines together.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the radical nature of the doctrine:
  “It is radical. It is 2000 years of Christianity... turned on its head, that everyone has an opportunity.”
  —Dr. Dirkmaat [28:43]

• Wilford Woodruff’s joyful response:
  “The moment I heard of it, my soul leaped with joy... I felt to say hallelujah.”
  —Wilford Woodruff [32:20, read by Hank Smith]

• On trust and the limits of mortal understanding:
  “Trust in the Lord with all thine heart... I think those things will be figured out and not forced on anybody.”
  —John Bytheway [67:23]

• On the example of faith from the past:
  “We owe them to treat our faith seriously. We owe them to actually, actually do everything in our power to believe. To not casually go down the rabbit hole of unbelief, but instead to desperately... seek out truth from these best sources.”
  —Dr. Dirkmaat [81:03]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 05:03: Early Christianity and the necessity of baptism
• 13:00: Joseph Smith's personal struggle with the fate of the unbaptized dead
• 19:09: The contradiction before baptism for the dead was revealed
• 24:00: The revelation of baptism for the dead at Seymour Brunson’s funeral
• 31:12: Phoebe Woodruff’s letter and early Saints’ excitement
• 37:45: Clarifying scripture (1 Corinthians 15:29) and Joseph’s letter to the Twelve
• 53:37: The millennial scope of temple work and genealogical records
• 57:03: The personal and present-day motivation for temple service
• 62:19–70:55: Admonitions to trust God despite lack of details about eternity
• 78:48: Emmaline Anderson’s sacrifice and faith in work for the dead
• 85:16: The spiritual impact of temple ordinances as described in LDS history
• 94:41: The episode’s concluding reflections on ongoing revelation

Additional Resources

• Readings from early church members recommended in the “Come, Follow Me” digital manual: Phoebe Woodruff, Vilate Kimball, Sally Randall, and others.
• Dr. Gerrit Dirkmaat’s podcast: Standard of Truth for more on early LDS history.

Tone & Style Highlights

• Throughout the discussion, the hosts and guest maintain a tone that is jovial, earnest, and deeply respectful. They mingle humor and warmth with probing theological exploration.
• Frequent self-deprecating jokes (especially by Dr. Dirkmaat about his own podcast), and expressions of love and gratitude for one another and for historical Saints.
• The conversation is faith-affirming and honest about doctrinal complexity, inviting listeners to patience, humility, and ongoing engagement with the Restoration.

This episode stands as a vibrant exploration of not only the doctrine of baptism for the dead but also its power to reassure, unite, and uplift generations past, present, and future—“a glorious doctrine” indeed.