Podcast Summary: Food Safety Matters, Ep. 183

Guest: Thomas Gremillion, Director of Food Policy, Consumer Federation of America
Date: December 10, 2024
Host: Adrienne Blum (Food Safety Magazine Editorial Director)

Episode Overview

This episode features an in-depth interview with Thomas Gremillion, a leading advocate for federal food safety regulation and the Director of Food Policy at the Consumer Federation of America (CFA), as well as coordinator for the Safe Food Coalition. The discussion dives into the role of CFA and the Coalition, the recent reorganization of FDA’s Human Foods Program, FSMA 204 traceability rule implementation, industry legal pushback, foodborne illness outbreaks (notably the Boar’s Head listeria case), USDA’s salmonella in poultry framework, and the broad implications of the Supreme Court’s overturning of the 1984 Chevron precedent for food regulation.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Role of the Consumer Federation of America & Safe Food Coalition

[23:11 – 26:40]

• CFA’s Mission: Founded in 1968, CFA unites over 250 nonprofit consumer/member organizations to advocate for consumer interest via research, education, and policy.

  • "Our bread and butter, if you will, is advocacy work in the food space." – Thomas Gremillion (23:51)

• Safe Food Coalition: Established in 1986 to coordinate advocacy among consumer, public health, research, and labor organizations focused on food safety reforms.

• Historic Achievements:

  • Advocacy for HACCP inspection adoption at USDA
  • Listeria monocytogenes and E. coli O157:H7 classified as adulterants
  • Mechanically tenderized beef labeling
  • Implementation and enforcement of major provisions of the Food Safety Modernization Act (FSMA)

2. FDA’s Human Foods Program Reorganization

[27:46 – 31:23]

• Context:

  • Triggered by the Abbott Labs infant formula recall, highlighting shortcomings and muddled leadership
  • Reagan-Udall Foundation’s commission report catalyzed change

• Key Changes:

  • Unified accountability: One Deputy Commissioner for Human Foods with oversight over food regulation
  • Integrated inspection workforce

• Financial Reality:

  • “Congress has to step up and give the agency the funding it needs...” (Thomas, 28:30)

3. FSMA 204 (Traceability Rule) – Implementation, Challenges & Legal Pushback

[31:23 – 37:42]

• Readiness:

  • Industry must be prepared by January 2026; rule already long overdue.
  • Most resistance is from retailers (esp. FMI), seeking delays and challenging the necessity of lot codes
    • “The lot codes are really the quintessential key data element... Developing a traceback system without them would require all the other parts of the production chain to kind of go back to the drawing board.” (Thomas, 32:57)

• Legislative Challenges:

  • Proposals like the Food Traceability Enhancement Act would delay or weaken requirements
  • “We've had a bunch of pilot projects going back to 2012. We know that the industry can do this.” (Thomas, 35:54)

• Inspection Delays:

  • FDA inspections delayed to 2027 may not cause widespread delays, as large retailers (e.g., Kroger, Walmart) are proactively requiring compliance in supplier contracts

4. Lessons from the Boar’s Head Listeria Outbreak

[37:42 – 43:27]

• Regulatory Gaps:

  • Ongoing, unaddressed hazards at the Jarrett, VA facility; non-compliance history ignored
  • State (Virginia) inspectors acting as federal inspectors may have led to weaker oversight

• Calls for Greater Transparency:

  • Proposes public disclosures such as restaurant-style sanitation grades to promote accountability

• Testing between Inspections:

  • Advocates for mandatory reporting of positive product test findings to regulators
  • Cautions on possible moral hazards; stresses careful program design

• Quote:

  • “It's just absolutely critical that we learn from an event like this and make the food safety system better so that we can avoid having families suffer...” (Thomas, 38:50)

5. USDA’s Salmonella in Poultry Framework

[43:27 – 49:26]

• Public Health Impact:

  • Salmonella is the most prevalent and costly foodborne pathogen; poultry accounts for >23% of cases

• Proposed Rule:

  • Would classify poultry products contaminated with targeted serotypes as adulterated (i.e., illegal to sell)
  • Thomas supports approach but wants broader serotype coverage and standards on total Salmonella loads
    • “Consumers shouldn't have to wear a hazmat suit to cook dinner.” (Thomas, 44:56)

• Concern:

  • Three targeted serotypes capture less than half of current cases; risk of companies gaming the system by vaccinating only for those
  • FSIS has poor track record updating standards; comprehensive, future-proof rule is preferred

• Quote:

  • “We want a comprehensive rule that will stand the test of time.” (Thomas, 49:18)

6. Supreme Court’s Overturning of the Chevron Doctrine (2024), Regulatory Ramifications

[50:35 – 54:23]

• Background: The Chevron doctrine gave federal agencies leeway to interpret ambiguous statutes; overturning it reduces agency flexibility.

• Implications:

  • Judicial resistance can now block bold regulatory action on food safety (e.g., banning/declaring pathogens as adulterants)
  • Will make agencies even more risk-averse and slow to act

• Quote:

  • “It opens the door to judicial ideologues to run interference against federal agency actions that are necessary to address all kinds of preventable harms across the economy—and particularly in the food system.” (Thomas, 51:18)

• Hope:

  • Persistence, public advocacy, and Congress stepping in when courts block agency action

Memorable Quotes & Timestamps

• On CFA’s core mission:

  • “Our bread and butter, if you will, is advocacy work in the food space.” (23:51)

• On the importance of regulatory funding:

  • “Congress has to step up and give the agency the funding it needs to take on some of these additional responsibilities.” (28:30)

• On traceability and retailer resistance:

  • “Retailers are kind of like the person in the [bucket] line closest to the fire. But instead of throwing the water on the fire, they're saying we should really be allowed to just dump the water on the ground over here.” (33:20)

• On the Boar’s Head outbreak:

  • “It's just absolutely critical that we learn from an event like this and make the food safety system better so that we can avoid having families suffer...” (38:50)

• On consumer protection & Salmonella regulation:

  • “Consumers shouldn't have to wear a hazmat suit to cook dinner. Right? The proposed rule holds industry accountable for doing its part to reduce the burden of foodborne illness.” (44:56)

• On the risks of a narrow regulatory standard:

  • “If we set the standard too narrowly, that could have some unintended consequences. So we want a comprehensive rule that will stand at the test of time.” (49:18)

• On the Supreme Court’s anti-Chevron ruling:

  • “It opens the door to judicial ideologues to run interference against federal agency actions... particularly in the food system.” (51:18)

Timeline of Major Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |-----------|--------------------| | 22:28 | Introduction to Thomas Gremillion and CFA | | 23:11 | CFA’s history, structure, accomplishments, Safe Food Coalition role | | 27:46 | FDA Human Foods Program reorganization discussed | | 31:23 | FSMA 204 traceability rule, compliance, industry resistance | | 34:39 | Legislative/legal pushback against FSMA 204 | | 36:21 | Inspection/enforcement delays and industry response | | 37:42 | Boar’s Head listeria outbreak, regulatory and oversight failures | | 41:50 | Calls for standardization and transparency in facility testing | | 43:27 | USDA Salmonella in poultry rule: significance, CFA’s analysis | | 47:37 | Concerns on rule’s scope and implementation/review mechanisms | | 49:26 | Impact on outbreak management and recalls | | 50:35 | Supreme Court Chevron ruling: regulatory implications | | 54:23 | Conclusion and gratitude for guest’s expertise |

Conclusion

Thomas Gremillion offered a thorough and candid assessment of the rapidly evolving federal food safety regulatory landscape—highlighting past advocacy victories, present regulatory reforms, persistent implementation/oversight challenges, and future threats/opportunities resulting from sweeping legal changes. His insights underscore the vital, ongoing partnership between strong, well-funded agencies and vigilant consumer advocacy to ensure the safety of the nation's food supply.

For links, references, and further reading, see the episode show notes or visit food-safety.com.