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Food Safety Matters
Ep. 215. Stalker and Terada: Aligning Culture, Risk, and Operations at the Food Safety Summit
01:00:46
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- [00:00]
A
The presenting sponsor of Food Safety Matters is Michigan State University's Master of Science Food Safety Program. For many professionals, earning a master's degree is both a personal goal and a strategic career step. Michigan State University's Master of Science in Food Safety program helps turn those goals into a meaningful achievement. This fully online program is designed for working professionals with practical, real world coursework taught by respected food safety experts and backed by decades of leadership in food safety education. Choose excellence and learn from an accredited Big Ten university. Visit FoodSafety.msu.edu to learn more. Hello everyone and welcome to Food Safety Matters, the podcast for food safety professionals. I'm Stacey Acheson, publisher of Food Safety magazine, and I'm joined by my co host, Adrienne Blum, our editorial director, and Bob Ferguson, president of Strategic consulting. And in addition to the three of us, you also be hearing from today's featured interview guests, Suzette Stocker and Sabrina Tirada. Adrienne, do you want to share a little bit with everybody about today's interview?
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B
Yeah, sure. So today, like you said, I'm talking with Suzette Stalker of Fresh Realm and Sabrina Turada of Yum Brands, and they are also both Educational Advisory Board members for the Food Safety Summit year. And so, in this interview, we're going to talk about how to align food safety culture, risk management and operational execution across complex global organizations. And we will also share a sneak peek of the sessions they're participating in at the Summit this May. So don't miss the interview.
- [01:54]
A
Yeah, as always. But we were very pleased to offer a sneak peek into one of our Food Safety Summit sessions, as well as to the valuable contributions from the very talented members of our Educational Advisory Board. And speaking of the Summit, we're getting down to the proverbial wire here, folks. Just one month to go, so if you haven't registered yet, there's still time to join us. And for you, our dear podcast listeners, even though the early bird discount has expired, you can still save big when you register using the special discount code FS Matters20, which saves you 20% off of food safety packages. We got three day, we got two day, we got one day, we got Expo only. And as I mentioned last time, the discount doesn't apply to our certification courses, but they do come with their own discount packages, so you can still say worry not. And speaking of, see, I could just keep this going. Like I could do the whole episode just. And speaking of keep it going, speaking of certificate and certification courses, in the last episode I went over all the unique opportunities that we have for you. And now we've added a new course which like, generally. Okay, like never do we add a course this late in the game. But we just got word from the Food Safety Preventive Controls alliance that we will be able to offer their Food Traceability Rule participant course. So cue the cheering crowds. Compliance with the FDA Food Traceability Rule is required still, but not until it's coming. I swear, it really is. In July of 28, despite the approaching deadline and delays, we know that awareness and understanding of the rules requirements remain a little inconsistent across the industry. So to support the implementation, FDA in collaboration with industry experts developed, developed a standardized curriculum through fspca. And that's some of the great work that FSPCA does is that through that it's government, you know, private education and independent. Anyway, FSPCA is great organization. So this comprehensive one and a half day course will be led by two recognized industry leaders. Asma Madad with the Coordinated Outbreak Response Evaluation and Emergency Preparedness Response Team. That's a lot. They just call it Core EP. No, no, I'm sorry, Core ER Team 2. But I figured I'd give you the whole name instead of just core er. Like what's that? So with FDA and Jennifer McIntyre, founder of Food Safety Strategy. So both wonderful experts that you'll be glad to learn from. So visit foodsafetysummit.com to get all the details on all the great courses, sessions and networking events at this year's. And oh yeah, that podcast theater. Adrienne and Bob, we have some wonderful interviews lined up. You can enjoy the podcast live and in person. And did I mention there's going to be a beer garden on Thursday? I don't know why I get such a kick out of it. I don't even drink, but I get a big kick out of saying that we're going to have a beer garden. So come have a beer on Thursday in the beer garden at the Food Safety Summit. And don't forget that you can still save when you use a special Food safety matters discount. FSMatters20 when you register foodsafetysummit.com do it today. We look forward to seeing you there. I managed to do that pretty quick, even with a little fooling around in there, just for good measure.
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C
That's pretty good. Adrian and I were talking earlier about just getting a couple of beers and watching the podcast theater, but now I understand we have to work. Oh well.
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A
Oh well, maybe I can. Maybe I can serve beer in the theater. Maybe I can bring a tray over and keep Keep the participants going with some beer. I'll do it.
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C
I'm wondering if that's a great idea.
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A
I would do it.
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C
Wait, a bunch of beer, a three legged stool up on a stage that
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A
could cause what could go wrong. I'd love to see the aftermath. Picture of that, like, oh, this fear.
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C
Graham's Ed editing out screams as we fall off the stadium.
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A
Graham's like not on the mic, not on the equipment. No, No. I don't know. Okay, so it must be time for the news.
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D
Adrian.
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C
Rescue us. Adrian.
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A
Yeah.
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B
All right, so first up, the Interagency Food Safety Analytics Collaboration, or IFSAC as it's known, has released its latest annual look at where foodborne illnesses in the US Are coming from. And it's built on a pretty substantial data set. This year's estimates draw from nearly 50,000 illnesses linked to 1,390 outbreaks between 1998 and 2023, with heavier emphasis on more recent data from 2019 onward to better reflect current trends. The report focuses on three major Salmonella, E. Coli O157, and Listeria monocytogenesis. So for Salmonella, illnesses are spread across a range of food categories, with chicken leading in about 19%, followed by fruits, seeded vegetables, pork and beef. For E. Coli O157, the picture is more concentrated. Over 85% of illnesses are tied to vegetable row crops like leafy greens and then also beef. And when it comes to listeria, more than three quarters of illnesses are linked to dairy, vegetable row crops and fruits combined. So this data is intended to give regulators and industry a data driven way to prioritize interventions and reduce illnesses. One important thing to note here though, is that these are attribution estimates based on outbreak data, not a direct measure of risk for any single food. And IFSAC emphasizes that changes from year to year don't necessarily mean a food has become more or less risky. It may just reflect shifts in in other categories or improved data.
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C
Adrian, a couple of things you said and a couple of things that were key about this report is I like this idea of the recency data. Even though the data goes back, they downweight some of the older data and heavily weighted the newer data. And if you look back much further than a few years, the kind of technology that was used is not the same. And we're not. We weren't uncovering as many outbreaks as we would be now. So the idea of having that long string of data and comparing those two doesn't really make a lot of sense. So this idea of recency weighting I think is really sharp. You also mentioned something there at the last part where because it's what's the attribution percentages, you could have a reduction in one and no reduction in another pathogen on the same calculation. And it looks like those other pathogens went up because the one went down, even though there may not be any change. So there's a little bit of number crunching that has to be done on this, but I don't think it matters that much because of what it shows. There's a couple of other things they didn't include Campylobacter. There was some inclusion exclusion categories that they have because some of the multi pathogen and some of the really complex foods where there might be combinations they excluded. So it was easier to understand the data. So they wound up with about one third of eligible foods included. But when you go and you take a look at it, it's really clear that for Salmonella there's a couple of sources, most of them USDA regulated. Same sort of thing with Listeria and the same sort of thing with E. Coli, particularly E. Coli with the idea of beef and the row vegetables, leafy greens and things made it really clear where the, where the focus should be. I think USDA understands this, but now they have really good information to say if we really want to move the needle on outbreaks. It's pretty clear where you need the focus. So I thought this was a very good study.
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A
Well, I always continue, I wonder like why are we looking at such old date? You know, it seems it's so old by the time it comes out and as many of us do these days, you know. So of course I went to ChatGPT. We don't just Google anymore, you know, but and the more I think about it, the more it makes sense to me is that you want to look at long term trends as well. Right. Even, even in our own corner of the world, you know, we, we track short term trends and long term trends as a, as a media outlet as well. So you know, that makes perfect sense to me. But and then helping with policy making and things like that. So you know, it is interesting when we get to the other, the next story, I'll point out another thing that I thought was interesting.
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C
Yeah, One of the things that's hidden about some of this data sometimes because you're looking at the outbreak, but you also have things and I don't know if this is in the data, it's just my idea here is you also have consumption data. Let's say that 10 years ago, people weren't eating as many leafy greens or eating fewer or more. All those things can change the number of outbreaks too. If consumption doubles and everything else stays the same, outbreak should double as well. So there's a lot of those things that make a sense to look at that long. Yeah.
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A
Yeah. And as you say that, Bob, my start thinking about and the impacts of, you know, if we turn back time, I won't sing it. The effects of policymaking. Yeah, Right. So let's say there was a time when probably E. Coli, you know, in ground beef, when those stats were much higher and then over time those would decrease because you'd solved it to a degree. Right.
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B
Yeah. So speaking of outbreaks, an ongoing E. Coli O157:H7 outbreak linked to raw dairy products from California based Raw Farm LLC has reached nine confirmed cases across three states, California, Texas and Florida. And more than half of the patients are children under five years old with one case of hemolytic uremic syndrome. So the timeline of illnesses stretches from September 2025 through February of this year. And whole genome sequencing shows the infections are closely related, which is strong evidence that they're coming from a common source. Epidemiologic data point at Raw Farm Products. Of eight people who were interviewed, seven reported consuming the company's raw dairy items, while the eighth consumed raw milk but couldn't recall the brand. So although the isolates from victims are closely linked, the implicated products, particularly raw cheddar cheese, have not been confirmed positive through testing, although FDA is currently conducting an on site inspection and taking samples at Raw Farm's facility in Fresno, California. So FDA and a Congressional Food Safety Caucus twice urged Raw Farm in March to issue a voluntary recall of the product, but the firm refused until April 2, at which time it issued a recall of certain batches of the raw cheddar cheese under protest. While continuing to contest the epidemiological links provided by FDA, Raw Farm president and owner Aaron McAfee said that Raw Farm tests every batch of cheese prior to its release on the market, as well as the milk that is used to produce cheese prior to production. And he noted that no pathogens have yet been found in Raw Farm product samples or in samples collected by FDA or state public health departments. Now, Raw Farm, which was formerly known as Organic Pastures, has been previously implicated in at least 15 foodborne illness outbreaks associated with its raw milk, cream and cheese products since late 2006. Notably in October of 2024, a Salmonella outbreak in the company's raw milk caused 171 reported illnesses.
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A
So the thing I was going to say about the stats, there was no E. Coli reported in data in dairy. I think pasteurization might have something to do with that. Could be, could be. Maybe, just maybe.
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C
Now this, this story makes me a little crazy because there is a solution to this. There's a really clear solution to this. It's pasteurization. And we were talking a little bit before we started recording is if you're going to buy raw milk for your own consumption, I think people who do that have to assume some responsibility. I'm not saying that any of this is good. What's going on here is terrible, but there's a way to avoid this and it's right there in front of anybody who wants to take advantage of it, but they're not. It just fascinates me a little bit that anybody would take that risk when it doesn't need to be. It's not something that you need to take.
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A
So anyway, yeah, well you have, as in so many things these days, you have a lot of conflicting information, right? And what do you believe and what do you not believe? And then you have, you know, people now high ranking government officials advocating for, you know, I'm speaking of Robert Kennedy Jr. You know, advocating for raw milk. So I, the first thing I did back to the Google machine, I, I, is there any data about parents, you know, knowledge of the implications and particularly hus when it comes to, you know, potential outcomes for their children if they're serving raw milk to children? And through a little bit of a circuitous route, I got to an Annenberg public policy study that was really very interesting. And in it they note that unpasteurized dairy products are estimated to cause 840 times more illnesses just a little bit and 45 times more hospitalizations than pasteurized products. And CDC of course says that consuming unpasteurized milk and products made from it can pose people can expose people to germs such as Campobacter Crypto. Oh, shouldn't have gotten into that one.
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C
Cryptosporidium.
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A
That's yes, that E. Coli, listeria, Brucella, Brucella and salmonella. But they also talked about a rise in consumption. This study was done in July of 2024 before, let's see, raw milk at least. So in 2016 4.4% consumed it, but that number has risen up to 21%, has risen 21% in, in, in the year 2024, which was, you know, while the Elections and all that. And while Robert Kennedy Jr. Was out there promoting it from a very, you know, from a higher platform. Right. With a bigger microphone. Right. So I don't know. But the interesting thing was, do people know? So it really comes down to education. 54% of respondents didn't know, didn't think that there was any. They either think that it's safer or just as safe or they weren't sure, with a total of 54%. So I think education, as always, is very key. But when you look at the potentially horrific outcomes for children and, and people over 65, of course, any, any high risk groups, you know, anyway, it's just surprising. It's surprising and also surprising to me. Was a company just saying, no, no. Yeah, no, we're good, we're good.
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C
Now that this, this one fascinates me a little bit because of exactly what we talked about. You know, I think there's an interesting policy discussion to say whether or not people are, you know, should be able to consume unpasteurized milk if they take the risk. You know, I don't think it's, it's everybody's job to tell them not to, but I just can't get over the idea that. I feel like we're talking about Jim's Raw Hamburger Store and everybody's surprised that people are getting sick. No kidding. No kidding.
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A
Jim's right.
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C
Cook the hamburgers.
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A
That's all.
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C
I don't know.
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B
Yeah, I think it's interesting we both said about the risk and do people
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D
realize what the risk is?
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B
But I think the other component to this, and Stacy, you kind of alluded to this when you talked about education, consumer education, is that people,
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D
I think people with raw dairy
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B
mistakenly think that there's some kind of huge benefit in consuming raw dairy products and especially raw milk over pasteurized milk.
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D
Now, while raw milk.
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B
Let's talk about milk.
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D
While raw milk does have slightly elevated
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B
levels of certain vitamins like C or
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D
some of the B vitamins and some
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B
enzymes, it is not nutritionally a superior substance or product to pasteurized milk.
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D
And some of the myths around raw milk can treat lactose intolerance or improve your allergies or things like that.
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B
None of that is true.
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D
So, you know, I mean, it's.
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B
It would be really unfortunate to me if somebody goes in with this misinformation
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D
and thinks, well, you know, this is
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B
just such a superior thing and it's going to do some magic tricks for me and my kids and then feeds
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D
their kids and one of their kids ends up in the hospital with kidney failure like we were talking about.
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B
I mean, that's just, I think the risk versus the reward is something to consider here. And the reward really is not much.
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D
But people need to be educated not
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B
just on the risks, but on what the reward factor, you know, if you
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D
can call it that, really is here. So.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Well, in understanding what sources to trust and right now, you know, given what's going on, it's very difficult, you know, when you have people within, you know, hhs. Right. Saying that it's safe. You know, it's, it is conflicting and hard. So you, you have to really dig in. But it's a lot of energy for a lot of people. You know, people are busy raising kids and working two jobs and doing all the things that everybody's out there doing, just trying to get by. So I don't know.
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C
Yep.
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A
Hopefully we can all do a better job. Yeah.
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B
Okay. So moving to food safety culture news, the Global Food Safety Initiative, or gfsi, has rolled out an updated version of its food safety culture framework. Version 2.0 focuses on turning the somewhat abstract idea of culture into something more practical and measurable. The new edition builds on the original 2018 framework and incorporates insights from more than 180 research sources and industry feedback. So at the heart of the update is a revised five dimensional model organized into two tiers. The first tier focuses on foundational elements like company values and employee empowerment and accountability. The second tier gets into what GFSI calls manifested cultural essentials, things like hazard and risk awareness, consistency and food safety behaviors and the ability to adapt and continuously improve over time. Now the framework calls on food safety stakeholders to adopt an integrated systems culture perspective rather than evaluating food safety culture in isolation. It also emphasizes that culture and formal systems like HACCP training programs and food safety management systems need to work together. And overall, the update drives home how it's not just about having the right procedures on paper, but making sure they're consistently practiced across the organization and every day.
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C
I am completely fascinated with this. I've not had a chance to read it, so I'll, I'll admit to being a little ignorant of the details, but I'm fascinated that what they, what they may have been able to do by reducing culture to something that can be quantified. There's a famous saying, I can go into where it comes from if anybody wants to, but where somebody said, I can't describe it, but I know it when I see it type thing. It's hard sometimes to really break this Down. But if they've been able to do that, I think that's really fascinating. The thing that gets me, if you look at things like employee empowerment, there are different company cultures that equally could be successful. You could have one company that's very tight on the rules. Everybody shows up exactly at 759, 59 or whatever. And other cultures that go, we're not going to be like that, but they could eat, they could potentially have equally good outcomes and equally good cultures, but in a different way. And that's what, that's what I don't quite understand how you quantify that. Now. I'm going to say again, I've not read this, I don't know it, and somebody could be listening saying he doesn't know what he's talking about, and they'd probably be right. But I'm really curious to see how they've been able to develop that. And if they have, I think it's great. But one of these things, it's. It would be like quantifying art sometimes to say, this is how we're going to measure. And I just don't, I don't know. But I'm looking forward to reading it and learning more.
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A
Well, it's interesting because you make me think a lot of thoughts that I actually didn't have before, but looking at 2018 and really, oh, it's eight years, right, since the first paper that we actually, our first ebook ever. We worked with the working group, the GFSI working group to get that out. And we've gone ahead as our audience, a front row seat to watching culture take on this whole be refined over these eight years. And it's really been fascinating and I'm sure we'll continue to see, to see that. Yeah. And you know, and it makes me think about Thino, Dave Thino, who back in the day, really, as I've often said, you know, really kind of created, you know, made culture out of whole cloth, you know, by saying, if you see something, say something, you know, and the idea of empowering employees to be able to stop something if they saw something dangerous going on. So a lot of progress and I'm sure still a lot to be learned. So here's where I have to get into some shameless promotions. So I'm sorry, it has to be done. One of our workshops at the Food Safety Summit is being guided by Lone Jesperson, one of the undisputed leaders of food safety culture globally, as well as Spear Marinakis with Maple Leaf Foods and Andrew Clark from Loblaws they did a great job. It's called, it's Workshop 4 Practical Tips to Improve Food Safety through Psychosocial Environment. You know, so Bob, you can see there's all this, you know, the evolution right into the psychosocial stuff and really digging into a lot of science there. So anyway, another great reason to attend the Food Safety Summit. Okay, I'm done.
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C
All right, Stacey, I'll be. I'll be sure to go to that workshop if you can assure me that Loan's not going to hit me with something for what I said earlier. So that's
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A
last year Loan did a workshop and I just had to keep trying to go get more chairs. Like that was what I remember was running around and looking for more chairs and people kept. I'm like, no, we need more. There's more, we need more. Okay, so maybe she wants. I don't know, Bob, there might not be room for you, so you can try.
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C
There might not be. Maybe I could hide in the big crowd. I could just be in the back. I'll put a hat on or something so nobody knows who I am.
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B
Okay. And so before we go, today, the Food Standards Agency in the UK is looking ahead with a new Future of Food Regulation initiative aimed at modernizing how food safety is managed. One of the big ideas on the table is creating a more centralized national regulatory approach for large food businesses rather than relying as heavily on local oversight. The program will also develop proposals for food safety oversight to keep pace with emerging food business models and changes in how consumers purchase and consume food. For example, it would strengthen consumer information by proposing the mandatory display of food hygiene ratings in England. The broader goal is to make the system more efficient and better equipped to keep up with how the food landscape is evolving. That includes using more data driven approaches to identify food safety risks faster while also reducing administrative burdens on businesses without weakening safety standards.
- [27:13]
A
Awesome. Thank you, Adrian. Thanks to both of you for another great news session here. As always, there are links to all the articles that we've referenced in our show notes. And if you don't already, we invite you to follow us on our social channels, LinkedIn X, Facebook, Instagram and YouTube. Just search for Food Safety magazine. And to take a deeper dive into all the great content that we offer and all of our webinars, monthly webinars that that Adrienne puts together, they're just fantastic. Visit our website, food-safety.com and now it's time for Adrienne's interview with Suzette Stocker of Fresh Realm and Sabrina Tirada of Yum Suzette Stocker is Director of FSQA Program Compliance at Fresh Realm. Formerly, she served as Director of Food Safety Quality and Regulatory Compliance at Target Corporation. At Target, Suzette was responsible for food safety standards and programs covering nearly 2,000 stores and over 60 supply chain facilities. Her work encompassed own brands, supplier manufacturing facilities, product labeling, produce farms, supply chain facilities, retail stores, and managing food recalls. Previously, Suzette led teams to develop and execute comprehensive internal audits of food safety and operational risks across Target. Before joining Target, Suzette gained valuable food safety and quality experience in manufacturing with roles at Agropore and Schroeder Milk Co. Where she implemented Global Food Safety Initiative or GFSI programs across multiple factories. Suzette holds a Bachelor's Degree in Biology from the College of St. Scholastica. Sabrina Tirada is the Manager of Food Safety Risk Management and Measurement at Yum Brands. She's a seasoned professional in food safety and quality assurance with extensive experience at Yum Brands where her roles have included Manager of Global Food Safety Risk Management and Measurement and Manager of Global fsqa. In these positions, Sabrina held responsibility supporting the food safety governance framework, coaching and assisting business units with crisis management. Her prior experience includes serving as a Food Safety Specialist at Citrosuco, where she established certifications and coordinated HACCP and is a Master's student at the University of Florida researching enzyme reactions. Her educational qualifications include a Master's Degree in Food Science and Technology from the University of Florida and a Bachelor's degree in Food Technology and Processing from the Universidad Federal de Vizosa and after a very quick break, will hear their discussion. Michigan State University's Master of Science in Food Safety is a fully online 30 credit program grounded in the sciences. Students can tailor electives to their interests or career aspirations while gaining skills they can apply immediately on the job. Whether the goal is career growth, stronger technical expertise, or a greater role in protecting public health, this program prepares graduates to lead with confidence. Join a community of professionals who value achievement, lifelong learning and leadership in food safety. Become a Spartan. To learn more, visit foodsafety.msu.edu
- [30:39]
B
so Suzette
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D
and Sabrina, you're both serving on the Educational Advisory Board for the Food Safety Summit this year as new members and big thanks to both of you for that. It's great to have you on the board. So I guess to kick things off today, I'd love to know what you think that you bring to the board for the Summit and also what value do you think the Summit brings to the industry and to the food safety community. Suzette, maybe you could kick us off on this one.
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E
Sure, of course. Well, I'm really honored to be joining the advisory board. I bring a perspective that spans both sides of the supply chain. I've spent years in retail food safety at scale, and now I'm working on the manufacturing and compliance side. So I think, you know, at the summit, it can bridge some of those conversations with the audience that's there and a lot of the attendees. The summit also holds a special place for me personally. It was actually the very first food safety conference that I ever attended in my career. Cool.
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A
Yeah.
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E
Yeah. So when Jillian and the team had reached out and asked me to consider joining the group to help shape the content, it really just felt like one of those full circle moments and just really thrilled to support it in that way. Regarding the summit itself, you know, I've always believed it's one of the most valuable events in industry because it's practitioner driven. Sabrina and I and the rest of the educational advisory board worked together to plan these events where it makes it more than just a trade show. Right. Like the, the people in those rooms are actually doing the work. And the sessions reflect that. And there's, there's so many different formats as well. You've got those certificate courses, the workshops, in depth sessions, you know, and then some of the free programming on the solutions stage in the tech tent. I feel like there's really something for everyone, regardless of where you are in your career and what sector you're coming from. And so, you know, my advice, I guess, would be to anybody considering attending, consider sending more than one person from your organization if you can. Because the content is so broad and those conversations happening in the hallways are just as valuable as what's on that main stage. And you really can't be everywhere at once. And so the more perspectives that you bring back, the more value your whole team gets. And, you know, it's just. Just always been a place for me to reconnect, challenge my thinking, and honestly to be reminded that we're all working towards that same goal, keeping people safe.
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D
Yeah, those are great points, Suzette, and thank you for mentioning about, you know, urging attendees to bring more than one person from their company. We do offer group discounts, and so that's a nice thing if you do want to bring more than one person from your company. So I appreciate those insights and it's really cool to hear that. The summit was your first food safety conference.
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B
So it's great to have you on
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D
the board to join us.
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E
Super fun. Yeah, yeah.
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D
And shape the agenda for the year. And, you know, Sabrina, you're also a new member. I'd love to hear about your experience with working with the Educational Advisory Board. And also, you know, what you think the Food Safety Summit gives to the industry.
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F
Yes. First of all, thank you so much for having me. It is truly an honor to be part of this conversation and to contribute to the food, to the summit in this way. What I bring is a global perspective shaped by working across different brands, markets, and level of maturity in my role. I see how food safety plays out in very different realities. And that really has influenced how I think about the work. Not just as a set of standards, which is what we live and breathe, but as something that has a function. It needs to have more functional practice and in very diverse environments. A big focus to me is also people. As you have seen, I've been strong technical capability as an industry, but one of the biggest opportunities that I've seen is competency. So we're great on technical skills, but yet to deliver on competency skills, which I mean, is things like influencing decision making, working across functions and cultures. So I see that the summit is a place where those conversations can happen. So I love what Suzette said. Send more people. And I would say not only the food safety team. Right. Make sure you send the other functions. Functions as well, because it does have great content for everyone as it brings together different parts of the industry where we can share what's working, what's not, where we need to evolve. Because food safety doesn't move forward in isolation. Right. It moves forward through shared learning.
- [35:57]
D
Yeah. I like what you said about the competency piece, and I think that that's very much at the intersection of technical skills and culture. And, you know, all those things will be covered very thoroughly at the Summit. I think that's, you know, a great topic to bring up. And I also appreciate what you said about having a global perspective. And we want to let people know that, you know, at the summit, this is a conference for everybody from all over the world. You will see people there from, you know, a variety of other countries. And then we also have quite a big audience joining us for some of our livestream sessions from around the world who can't necessarily travel that far to come to Rosemont in May. But it really is a very big welcoming audience with a lot of, I think, international perspectives. So it is a great place to come together, share ideas with the global food safety community. And certainly a large segment in North America. So I want to talk a little bit also about your backgrounds and of course, that's what brings you to our educational advisory board for the summit this year. So, Suzette, you've worked in both manufacturing and retail food safety leadership, and you're currently serving as director of FSQA Program Compliance at Fresh Realm. So I'm curious, what are some of the biggest differences from your perspective in managing food safety risks across those different kinds of environments?
- [37:22]
E
Yeah, I mean, absolutely the differences are real and significant. In retail, you're managing a risk at almost an incomprehensible scale. When you think about, you know, thousands of locations, millions of transactions, products coming in from hundreds to thousands of suppliers, the biggest lever is really, you know, the supply chain, setting standards, auditing, assessing the risk so that you can focus on resources or support where it's really needed most. And that, you know, that needs to be dynamic. It can't be a set it and forget it. You need to really be active in assessing that risk and managing those resources to mitigate it. You're trusting that your suppliers are executing, but you don't really have control in that production environment directly as a retailer, unless you're a retailer who happens to have their own manufacturing facilities, of course. And then in manufacturing, you own the process. You see the critical control points, you see the preventive controls, you can drive those corrective actions in real time. The accountability and the ability to affect change is more immediate. Right. You can see it, you can feel it. And what I found in having experience on both sides, it really makes you a much more effective partner. You understand what the retailer needs and why they're asking, you know, suppliers to do certain things. You understand what's actually feasible in an operation to execute on the floor across hundreds of locations. And that empathy, I think, across supply chain is something that's incredibly valuable and it just helps you work better together with partners both upstream and downstream.
- [39:11]
D
Yeah, that's great. I really like what you said about, you know, how the breadth of all the experience that you've had in food safety across different, different realms feeds into, you know, your perspective on how to effectively work with supply chains and, you know, the suppliers themselves. So very interesting and thank you for that. Now, Sabrina, you've worked across global food safety governance, risk management and crisis support at Yum Brands. So how has that global perspective changed the way that you think about managing food safety risk risks?
- [39:45]
F
One of the biggest shifts for me has been moving from compliance mindset to a risk mindset. Compliance is Important, it gives us a baseline, but it can also create a false sense of security because risk doesn't follow a checklist. And working globally, you start to see that very clearly risk emerge differently. Situations change quickly and not everything fits neatly into a standard or an audit or any assessment that you have done. The question becomes less about was this done? And more about what is actually happening here, what could happen next? And that requires people to think differently and feel less safe as you have, you know, a good result out of an audit of an assessment. So again, not just as a compliance manager, but risk managers, we need to constantly be observing, questioning and adapting in real time. And that was the biggest shift in mindset for me.
- [41:01]
D
Interesting. And so just a quick follow up. Would you say that working with a risk assessment mindset is more challenging than
- [41:08]
B
working with the compliance mindset mindset or
- [41:10]
D
does it just, is it just a different mode of thinking?
- [41:13]
F
It is more challenging because it's really easy. Right. Like I, I being with Yum for 11 years and before that coming from a food plant is so interesting how there is a comfort on I got 100% of my audits done, all my suppliers passed the audit. There is a comfort there. Right. And, and I really. And I've seen how people, that's all they want to do, they just want to go and check that box. But the truth is we need to go beyond that and we should not feel safe because good of audit the results and being questioning, assessing and looking beyond that, it is more challenging. So definitely it has been uncomfortable. That invitation that we have given to the community, it's being uncomfortable, but definitely have brought incredible results.
- [42:13]
D
Yeah, I guess it's kind of like that, that saying about learning to get comfortable with being uncomfortable.
- [42:18]
F
Right, Exactly. Yeah.
- [42:20]
E
So I love what you say, Sabrina, about needing to risk assess and not just check the box because you know, those compliance plans and those boxes that needed to be checked or created from a shared learning across industry. Right. Like what are those best practices that are going to work to prevent this next thing from happening? But if we're not constantly learning, if we're not reaching out and benchmarking and understanding what's going on in the world around us and it's not just the world here in the US it's truly the global environment that you pointed out, then we're not continuing to raise the bar and we're not going to be ready for that next thing. We need to be looking around those corners and assessing that risk and understanding, hey, what might happen and involving cross Functional partners in that, because together you can come up with an even better plan and protect the food, protect our consumer, protect the companies that we work for.
- [43:17]
F
Exactly.
- [43:18]
D
Great points, both. And, you know, kind of continuing with this theme of managing food safety at scale. Now, Suzette, you talked about overseeing food safety programs across thousands of stores during your time with Target. I'm curious, what leadership strategies helped you manage programs at that scale?
- [43:38]
E
Yeah, well, one of the. One of the first things you need to accept when you're operating at that kind of scale is that you can't be everywhere. And, you know, that's a. That's a leadership lesson in its. In itself, the most important thing, you know, that I did or that I believe in is investing heavily and building the right systems and the right people and the right thought processes. You need leaders at every level that understand not just what needs to be done, but why those food safety requirements are there. Because when something goes wrong in the middle of the night in a distribution center, a store that, you know, frankly, you've never been in, and you don't understand what's facing them, the response depends entirely upon the judgment of the team on the ground. So I think, you know, we talked about competencies early on. Capability building. Right. That's huge. You know, training, having clear escalation paths and creating a culture where it's okay and people feel empowered to raise issues without fear, even if they don't have the answer. Like, how do they reach out for the help that they need to make the best decision in the moment? Metrics matter. Don't get me wrong. Metrics matter. They tell you where to look. But I think culture determines what people actually do when the audit isn't going on, when you're not there looking over their shoulder, when no one is watching. So, you know, investing in those competencies and those capabilities is huge when you're working to manage risk at scale.
- [45:15]
D
Yeah, great point. And I think when we talk about competencies and capability building, another component is just that sense of accountability. And Suzette, you spoke to that saying, like people from these different teams across different locations, you know, when something goes wrong in the middle of the night, they need to be ready to step up and address it the way that it needs to be addressed. Right. And I think accountability is part of that piece too.
- [45:41]
E
Yeah, definitely.
- [45:42]
D
Yeah. Now, you know, again, looking at things, you know, from this kind of a large scale. Now, Sabrina, we mentioned that you worked in governance, so what would you say are some of the of the biggest challenges that organizations face when they're trying to implement food safety governance structures across multiple brands, markets, or business units.
- [46:04]
F
That's a great question because this is where things get complex very quickly. One of the biggest challenges is balancing clarity and flexibility. We need to be very clear on the what and when we're implementing governance, make sure that it's clear what good looks like, what the expectations are, but the how can't be one size fits all. And different markets operate in very different realities, different levels of infrastructure, different regulatory environments, different constraints. So governance has to create clarity without rigility. And its role is not just to enforce compliance, but to enable teams to be effective risk managers in their context. So everything, the governance really requires a shift where we cannot just again, just checking a box and checking if something was done or not. But we really need to make sure that we understanding how well risk are being managed.
- [47:22]
B
Great.
- [47:23]
D
Now, Suzette, getting back to the summit. So you're leading a session on Thursday at the summit about food safety risks in imported foods. And that session's going to look at several real world case studies. So what is one example that illustrates how an imported food issue can quickly escalate into a regulatory or crisis communication challenge?
- [47:49]
E
Sure. Well, one example that comes to mind, and I don't know that anyone would have seen this looking around the corners that we were describing earlier, but the situation around the radioactive shrimp from international sourcing regions, you know, even if, even though that didn't directly impact Target at the time, it was an area where sourcing is frequently evaluated. And that's exactly what makes it such a useful case study. It could be anybody's name, any company's name in the headlines. And that's the point, is that many of these imported food issues are not, you know, uniquely about one company making a bad decision. They're about a global supply chain that's complex. Sabrina talked about the complexity. Right. Every organization is navigating this complexity in their own ways. And I guess what I come back to is this idea of never wasting a good crisis. What can we learn from it? Whether you're directly involved in it or you're watching it unfold from the outside, there's always something to learn and ways that you can improve your own programs. And when I was at Target, we really took that seriously. We tested our response plans, we expected our suppliers to do the same. And that same discipline carries through to the work that I'm doing now. You know, crisis response really isn't something that you can figure out in the moment. Well, you can, but it's extremely difficult, right? You need to practice it, you need to test it, it stress test it across tiers of your supply chain. Because when something happens, and it's really not a matter of if, it's more likely a matter of when. And at that point the time to prepare has already passed. So you know, in the session, what we're, what we're looking to share are some resources, some tools, some ways of, you know, learning from a few of these events that have impacted our food supply chain and giving attendees just some things to think about as they walk away and potentially apply to their own programs.
- [49:48]
D
Well, I think it promises to be a great session. And you know, certainly the example you just shared is a really interesting one. You know, when we saw in 2025, you know, shrimp from Indonesia, imported shrimp having that radioactive isotope of Cesium137 that came from environmental pollution, I think it just illustrates how complex risk assessment actually can be because, you know, that's not something that the shrimp exporters necessarily would have worried about or thought. But there's so many different things to take into account. We look forward to hearing more examples like that on the food safety Risks and imported food session and that's on Thursday at the Food Safety Summit. So looking forward to that. Now Sabrina, you're a panelist on a session on Wednesday at the summit about elevating food food safety buy in through interpersonal influence. And I think many companies talk about food safety culture, but in practice there can be tension between quality teams and business operations. So why do you think that bridging that gap is so important for effective food safety programs?
- [50:54]
F
I'm really glad you asked this because the tension is very real and a lot of it comes from how food safety is positioned. If it is positioned around compliance, it can feel like enforcement and that creates a parent child dynamic and where what we're really trying to build is an adult and adult relationship. As Suzette mentioned, we want to make sure that we have clarity on accountabilities and when this is shared ownership, shared understanding, we end up having a common goal. Right. So really I'm looking forward to the session. It's going to be a great conversation because in the end of the day, food safety should not be owned just by qa. It lives in the business and the way and we have some accountability on how this tension. So let's make sure that we own it, we work towards, you know, eliminating it, make sure that we meet then in the middle like, but we need to work towards it. Come, come away a little bit from this safety place of compliance enforcement. Because when operation teams feels that ownership and QA finally can focus on enabling rather than just auditing, that's when food safety culture and food safety itself become sustainable and you can see real progress within the business.
- [52:39]
D
Yeah, I like what you said about food safety becoming sustainable within an organization. I think that's, you know, that's, it's so true what you say about, you know, obviously the how of food safety is important. The why really needs to be understood, you know, and especially, you know, you talked about the operations in the front line. I mean, it's all levels of the organization. As you also pointed out, you know, food safety, responsibility for food safety needs to permeate all levels of the organization. And I think that the session is going to explore that in some detail. So definitely looking forward to that. Again, that's Wednesday at the summit. So one last question for both of you and I'll invite Suzette to answer first. So for professionals that are entering food safety today, what skills or experiences do you think are most important for building a successful and influential career?
- [53:32]
E
I love this question. I'm pretty passionate about personal development, so thanks for asking. I would say three main things come to mind. First, get comfortable being uncomfortable. Right? You don't learn when you're comfortable. And food safety sits at the intersection of science, operations, law, communication. And you have to be willing to learn and grow across all of those domains, not just the technical or academic side, in order to be successful. Secondly, build relationships across the supply chain, you know, not just upstream among your peer group as well. Your ability to influence outcomes really depends on trust. And trust is built over time through showing up consistently understanding other people's pressures. As food safety leaders. I think it's really important that we understand competing priorities and goals from our cross functional partners in order to really lead that change, drive the change that's going to, you know, effectively improve and elevate the bar together. The third thing, and I really wish this is something that someone had told me earlier, it seems like common sense, but it's really to develop your communication skills with intention. You could be the most technically profound person in the room. But if you can't translate risk into, you know, language that someone in the C suite or a store manager or, you know, an entry level team member and employee can understand, it will always limit the impact that you can have, you know, on your organization. And some of the best food safety leaders that I know are also incredible communicators. So so those would be the three that come to mind for me.
- [55:30]
D
Those are great points. And you know, of course, like you said, the ability to translate, you know, technical food safety aspects, terms, you know, goals into language that people who aren't part of the food safety technical team can understand and use that to influence. Explain how does this add to our bottom line? How does this add to our roi? Those things are all so very important for food safety people to be able to do, especially to, for example, the C suite. So thanks for pointing those three things out. That's fantastic. And Sabrina, what are your thoughts on skills and experiences that young food safety professionals should build or have?
- [56:16]
F
I am so aligned with Suzette. That's really important. That's really an important one. Especially where the industry is going. The technical foundation will always matter, but what's becoming increasingly critical are the competencies. The ability to influence without authority, to navigate ambiguity, to make decisions in real time. It's really important. It's a very agile, very dynamic environment and you need to be comfortable with that. And yeah, food safety is not static. Risks are always emerging. Even a war, right. Like when it happened in Ukraine, you wouldn't think, food safety, what is the problem? But supply chain just completely went down the hill. We lost critical suppliers within Europe and in the last minute we had to find alternative ones. And that's all food safety teams who are working. So things that you will not think, it's not on the books, it's not actually learned at university. That's the reality, which I personally, I enjoy. You're never bored. That's something that we are always saying within our team. Like we just look at each other. We're never bored. And I believe that professionals need to be able to respond, not just follow processes, because food safety is not just about what you know, but it's about how you think and how you're acting. And Again, I agree 100% with Suzette about food safety being about trust. And trust is built through people, through culture, and through decisions that we're making every day.
- [58:16]
D
Yeah, great, great points as well, Sabrina. And I really like what you said about food safety teams needing to have that agility to respond and to, you know, address emerging issues. Right. I mean, throughout this discussion today, we've had, we've heard quite a few themes emerge that I think people are going to find in abundance at the summit. We talked about competency, we've talked about capability building, we've talked about accountability, all those things being part of culture, communication, the importance of communication. And effective communication. And then now, you know, agility, I think, which is something that all food safety people and teams need to be able to have in their work. So Suzette, Sabrina, I want to thank you both for being on the podcast with us today. We're super excited to have you on the Educational Advisory board for the 2026 Food Safety Summit, and I'm super excited about your sessions. I will be in attendance and very excited to hear what you and your fellow panelists have to say and the insights you have to share. So thank you again for being on the podcast today. It's been great talking with you both.
- [59:23]
E
Thank you.
- [59:24]
F
Thank you.
- [59:26]
A
Thanks again to Suzette Stocker and Sabrina Tirada for joining us on the podcast today. And of course, thanks to all of you for listening. A very special thanks to our presenting sponsor, Michigan State University. To learn more about their fully online Master's Degree in Food safety, visit foodsafety.msu edu and click on the Master's Program link now. You know we love hearing from you, so please don't hesitate to send send us your questions or suggestions to podcastood-safety.com or post a note on LinkedIn, X, Facebook, or Instagram. We're always happy to get your feedback, but you know, you could also deliver your feedback in person at the Food Safety Summit when you come and listen to the podcast with your beer on Thursday or Wednesday. Either day, we'll do it in person. And to make sure that new and bonus episodes magically appear in your podcast player, all you have to do is click that Follow subscribe subscribe button in the player of your choice and presto. Bingo. All the episodes appear. And while you're there, throw some stars our way by rating the podcast, especially if you liked it. It only takes a moment and it's good for everyone. And that's it for us today. Our next regular episode will post on April 28th. In the meantime, take good care of yourselves and those around you. We'll talk to you then.