← For Good
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- [00:00]
A
It's so important that we tell ourselves the truth about how we actually feel. You know, we give these very surface answers, but we're bleeding internally. To heal a wound, I have to acknowledge the wound.
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B
For a very long time in my life, I was like, if I just make people laugh, that's my spouse. That's my superpower. When it really isn't. It's just one of my assets.
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C
For so long, I feel like I've been a people pleaser just because I'm the oldest in my family of all my siblings and wanted other people to accept me at my own cost.
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A
Authenticity in everyday life means I put down my mask, I release who you think I should be and am free to be myself. Whenever I'm imitating, I'm second best to whoever I'm imitating. Right.
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B
I'm second best who I really am.
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A
Yeah. When we're authentic and real, it liberates other people to be real as well.
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B
What's good, everybody? It's your guy, JoJo Simmons. And welcome back to the For Good podcast, where we focus on the good, never the bad, and we're measured by what we do, not what we have. I am joined by my co host.
- [01:15]
C
Hey, guys. I'm Vanessa, and I am so excited to be here with JoJo today to really bring my perspective on some really important topics and helping guide this conversation. So let's get into it.
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B
Yes. Yes. Today we are honored to be sitting down with Dr. Tama Bryant, a trailblazing psychologist, ordained minister, author, and former president of the American Psychological Association. Dr. Bryant has dedicated her life to helping people heal from trauma, reclaim their authenticity, and live fully empowered lives.
- [01:43]
A
Wow.
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C
Yes. This is gonna be such a real conversation about mental health, healing, and self discovery. We'll dive into Dr. Thema's journey, her insights on trauma, and practical advice we can all apply to our own lives.
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B
Yes. Y.
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C
Yes.
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B
Let's get into it. Dr. Tama, thank you so much for coming on the For Good podcast.
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A
Thank you for having me. I love the whole theme and vibe of focusing on the good that we can in.
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B
Thank you so much.
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A
Healing and wellness.
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B
That's what it's about on this For Good podcast. We focus on those three main things is mental health, wellness and self growth. Personal growth. Making sure that you're good with you. You know what I mean?
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A
That's wonderful.
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B
When you're good with you, you're good with the world, right?
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C
That's nice. Jojo.
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B
What? Me? You act like I don't talk like this every day.
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C
I know, but that was really nice.
- [02:25]
B
Well, that's why I created. Well, I'm not gonna say created this space is because it's with others in mind, not just me. But the reason why I'm a host of something like this is because it all culminates what my life has been. Whether I'm sitting down with you, Dr. Tama, or I'm sitting down with a basketball player or a rapper, it all associates to either experiences on my life or questions I have to the people that I bring on. So thank you so much for recognizing that.
- [02:56]
A
Yeah.
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B
Let's jump into it. So, Dr. Bryant, let's start at the beginning, where most people start. This is the beginning of the podcast.
- [03:02]
A
Yes.
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B
Can you share a bit about your journey into psychology and what inspired you to focus on trauma and healing?
- [03:07]
A
Absolutely. So the entrance into psychology is actually growing up as a pastor's daughter. So in our community, a lot of times, before people think to call a therapist or psychologist, they often talk to their minister. So growing up in Baltimore, Maryland, my dad did a lot of pastoral counseling, and people would also call the house when they were kind of in crisis. So I say my first time working a crisis hotline was as a kid growing up in Baltimore. People would call with all kinds of issues, and if my parents weren't available, they would just start talking. So I have always been considered someone who's sensitive and feels things deeply. And so then when I heard there was a field in and of itself, not just as a pastor, but as a psychologist, I said, I know that's for me, that's what I want to do. And then the focus on trauma recovery in particular is unfortunately, being in environments where there's a lot of trauma. So in Baltimore, there's a lot of beautiful cultural things, but there are also, I will say, we recently have a new mayor and the crime rate has been going down.
- [04:14]
B
There you go. Shout out to Baltimore.
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A
Yes.
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B
Well, like they were saying, baltimore, Baltimore, be more.
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A
I know, it's why be less when
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C
you can be more.
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A
There you go.
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B
Love it. There you go. I love that.
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A
Yeah. So seeing that made me wanna consider how to help people to heal from those difficult life situations.
- [04:30]
B
I love how you said you came up in the church and although you were able to turn to the pastor, you found out that there was study and research on what you were actually interested in, and you automatically jumped into it. You knew what you wanted to know, Right?
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A
Definitely Love that.
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B
I love that so much.
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C
Yeah. It was almost like divinely led.
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A
It really was. I feel you know, it's one of those things when you're purposeful. Once you find your lane and you're doing it, you're like, this is what I was made for. And so it's such a good. It is.
- [04:57]
C
So you talk a lot about trauma, not just on an individual level, but culturally and socially. How can someone start to process trauma in a world that often seems to ignore it?
- [05:07]
A
It's so important that we tell ourselves the truth about how we actually feel, because a lot of times we're like, I'm good. I'm fine. I'm blessed. You know, we give these very surface answers, but we're bleeding internally. And it comes out in different ways. It shows up in our parenting. It shows up in us being irritated. It shows up in the way we turn to food to cope and soothe ourselves. And so for us to start to heal, as you're naming not only individual trauma, but collective trauma. So racial trauma, the trauma that immigrants are facing, the trauma that women face, that it's important that to heal a wound, I have to acknowledge the wound. So for me to be willing to say that hurt, or that that was outrageous, or I'm so disappointed that we're back in this place again, and then that can motivate me to begin the healing journey.
- [06:02]
B
I love how you pointed out that there's different traumas to deal with. And it reminds me of a conversation I had with Dr. Cheyenne Bryant in the beginning seasons of this, and she was like, there's pain pockets, and there's little pain pockets that you know you're gonna have to fill. You know, that void that you're gonna have to fill. And it almost reminds me of what you said, where there's slavery trauma, there's childhood trauma, there's all different type of traumas. And it just reminds me of the pain pockets that she was talking about.
- [06:28]
A
Yes, absolutely. I love that connection. And it's important for us to consider the traumas we haven't heard so much about. We often think about child abuse and sexual assault, domestic violence, and those are important. But also to know incarceration is a trauma. Grief can be a trauma, especially if it was a sudden death. So the ways in which our nervous systems have been overwhelmed by life experiences.
- [06:56]
B
Yeah, that's super deep. So how important is it to integrate cultural understanding into mental health care? And what can people do to become more aware of their own context when healing so important?
- [07:08]
A
Sometimes people will say, well, depression is depression, or anxiety is anxiety. But the truth is the way we make meaning of Things is often based on our cultural traditions. So, for example, in the black community, you may have heard people talk about a nervous breakdown. Yeah, that's not an actual diagnosis. Right.
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B
I've heard that too many times. I'm about to have a nervous breakdown.
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C
Nervous breakdown over anything.
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A
Anybody outside of our community is like, what's that? But we all have a.
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B
We know what it is.
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C
I know what it is.
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B
You said it, we knew. We've heard it and we know it.
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C
I didn't realize that was a cultural thing.
- [07:40]
A
Yeah, it's so amazing. And then knowing culture as well, in terms of people's like, religion or spirituality, as I said, people often turn to that. But when I first started studying psychology, I heard a mental health professional use this term hyper religious. And I was like, what's that? And it's very subjective. It's just if the person believes based on their life experience that you're overly religious. But you can imagine if someone has no faith and you pray before you make a major decision, they're going to
- [08:11]
B
look at you like you're hyper religious.
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A
And they think that it's a problem. And it's like, that's not a problem, you know? Or I was talking to a therapist in training who had a client mention they were fasting, and she wanted to know, is that an eating disorder? I'm like, no, let me tell you what fasting is. So if you don't know people's culture, you can miss it or misunderstand what they're talking about.
- [08:32]
B
I love how you say it's a cultural thing. We all have different cultural things. It's very interesting when you talk about the hyper religious thing because we grew up very faithful. Our dad is a father of the church. Although his name is Rev Run, he is an ordained father. And, you know, growing up, it was hard to see other people not as into God that we were into. And I would be offended for a little bit. I grew up and realized you can't be offended by somebody's cultural upbringing or their house upbringing. Right, right. And I find it very interesting that you say that because it's very true. It's hard for us to understand somebody else if they come from a different culture and they have a different belief in things. You know what I mean? And, you know, we just gotta give people grace sometimes when it comes to that.
- [09:15]
A
Right? Absolutely. And it's true. We often. Until you meet other people, you can assume everybody thinks like you or acts like you. You know, I was blessed to come up in a household where my parents were very affirming, positive, encouraging. And so then that's what I thought, like, parents were until I interacted with people who, like, their biggest abuser was the parents, was the parent who would say, like, that you're stupid, you're ugly, you're. And so it's important that we hold space for, like, our different journeys.
- [09:48]
C
Yeah, that's really good.
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A
Yeah.
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C
In your book the Homecoming, you talk about reclaiming your whole authentic self. What does authenticity look like in everyday life, especially for people navigating fear or past trauma?
- [10:02]
A
Such an important piece for us to get out of. People pleasing. So very early in life, we observe that certain people get treated better. It could be based on how they dressed, how they look, how they talk. And so in a desire to be accepted, in a desire to be praised, and sometimes in a desire to be safe, we'll start pretending we take on different characters because we're like, you know, if I do my hair like this or if I talk like this, then I'll be the popular one. And so authenticity in everyday life means I put down my mask, I release who you think I should be and am free to be myself. And what's so beautiful about it is when we're authentic and real, it liberates other people to be real as well. You know, you got that real friend who just is going to say whatever's on their mind, and then we get more free and tell our truth instead of just, like, sticking to the script.
- [11:02]
C
For so long, I feel like I've been a people pleaser just because I'm the oldest in my family of all my siblings. And for so long, I. I've always had felt like I've had to, like, maintain control and, you know, wanted other people to accept me at my own cost, you know, at leaving out pieces of myself. So I really relate to that.
- [11:19]
A
Yeah, it's so true that it's costly. Like, in the beginning, we can think, like, I'm getting attention or people like me, but a part of you knows they don't really know me. Like, you know, they like who I'm pretending to be. But, like, if I dare to show up as myself, would that be acceptable? Because then we can find out, like, are we really aligned? Because eventually you get tired of playing the part, you know, or sending your representative, and then that truth shows up and you figure out, like, are these my people or not?
- [11:51]
B
And to double down on that, you know, with that you just said. And also talking about how authenticity is contagious in a sense Right. This is what this podcast is, was, will be for me, is me unapologetically being authentic, being vulnerable, being JoJo, like you said, you get tired of putting up the act and enough to say I was ever putting up an act. But, yes, as a celebrity, as a known person, we have a vision in our head of what we believe we want people to look at us as. Right? And when I let that guard down and I said, I'm just gonna show up, I'm gonna be goofy, I'm gonna say funny stuff, I might say something stupid, but I'm gonna be authentically me. I'm gonna tell people I'm a real person. I cry like you. I. You know, I have problems like you. I'm not perfect like you. But I'm showing up. And I realized when I do that, not only are my subscribers or our subscribers, our fans, our listeners, being more authentic and being more open and being more vulnerable, the guests we bring on here, when I start opening up that Pandora's box of feelings and emotions and letting you know, hey, it's safe. Cause guess what? I'm gonna spill my life out to you right now. And I'm the host, and it really is contagious. So I love how you said that.
- [13:02]
A
And it's your special sauce, right? It's like if whenever I'm imitating, I'm second best to whoever I'm imitating, right?
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B
I'm second best who I really am.
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A
Yeah.
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B
When I'm imitating, I'm not being me. I'm creating a Persona of who I'm not really. It's just a Persona I believe people want from me, but people just want you to be you. And even if it doesn't work, who
- [13:23]
A
gives a crap, right? You got to hold onto yourself.
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B
You got to hold on to you. I love it.
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A
It's good.
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C
That's so interesting that you said that, JoJo, because I feel like you've always presented your authentic self, and I've always admired about you, where I felt like I'm leaving out the quirky parts of myself. Cause I wanna be looked at in
- [13:39]
B
a way a lot of people believe. Because from young, I was always goofy, loud, and it looked like I was never afraid to take risk that that was me being my authentic self. And yes, it was, in a sense, but it was also me masking who I also was. It was like, this is the part people like about me, right?
- [13:58]
A
So I feel like the funny Kirky,
- [14:00]
B
this is what I'm accepted for. This is what they won't accept me if I do this now, and I'm like, hey, guys, I actually have read a few books. I actually am pretty smart. I actually have other parts about me. That isn't the only part that just makes you laugh. Because for a very long time in my life, I was like, if I just make people laugh, that's my superpower. When it really isn't. It's just one of my assets. It's just one of my assets that I can pull out whenever, but it isn't my true self.
- [14:26]
A
And this is an important point you're making, that the performance can be a part of you, but it's like, does it overshadow the other parts? Can I show you know, the range? Right. Even what you were saying, the part that you show them a piece of, it may be real, but it's like, what's the other part that I don't get to express?
- [14:47]
C
So what I just learned is our superpower is our authenticity.
- [14:51]
A
Yes, it is 100%. It's beautiful.
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C
It is.
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A
And it's less work.
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C
Oh, my God.
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B
You just get to.
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C
It takes a pressure.
- [14:59]
B
I'm gonna get. I do wanna get the next one. But I will say, ever since, for the last few months or a year, since I've been authentic, I've received way more authentic and organic love from people. I've been people saying, like, this, I didn't know this part of you, and this is the part we've always wanted to see. And that's what you start learning, is that your authenticity is your best self.
- [15:18]
A
Yeah. Because then we have real intimacy. Am I letting people in?
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B
Yeah, Right.
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A
Once I let people in now, it's like, oh, this is real.
- [15:26]
B
Yeah, I love that. So you're both an ordained minister and a psychologist, which is a very interesting mix. How do spirituality and faith complement mental health in your work and in your own life?
- [15:38]
A
Well, one, I tell people, whether they're people of faith or not, therapy as a process is a faith walk. It means, like, if I show up for therapy, that a part of me believes my life can be better than it is right now. Right. And I may have never seen it before. I've never seen my confident self or I've never seen my joyful self, but I'm engaging in this process. We talk about faith the size of a mustard seed, that a little piece of me believes that's possible for me and that allows me to show up and do the work.
- [16:09]
C
This is a really amazing conversation.
- [16:12]
B
I'm so mad. You gotta get outta here.
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C
I need your book for sure.
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B
But we're definitely getting her book. We're gonna, and we're definitely gonna make sure we promote the book before we get out of here.
- [16:20]
A
Yeah. Daughters of the heart and homecoming.
- [16:22]
B
Oh yeah. In the end we're definitely gonna have you make sure you could tell find it and exactly how to get it.
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A
Excellent.
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C
So for our listeners who might be struggling with self doubt, fear or mental health challenges, what are some actionable steps that they can take to start their healing journey today?
- [16:38]
A
Yes, so with self doubt we have to train our eyes to see our wins. So depression and anxiety, they lie to us and they amplify our mistakes. So like the things you're good at, you take for granted. And the things you're not good at, the things you fell off, like those become center stage. So to build up my belief in myself, I allow myself we can have like a gratitude journal at the end of each day. Three things that I am grateful I did today or that I appreciate about myself. And so that will help me that we call it re narrate tell myself a different story. Right. I'm actually not a loser. I'm not stupid, I'm not this, I'm not that that. I start to see my wins and then I can feel like I have something to build on. And then when people are setting goals, it's important that we set goals that are a stretch but are attainable, that you can reach it. Sometimes we mess ourselves up. Let's say if I don't work out at all and I say now I'm going to work out five times a
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C
week, Come on, be realistic.
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B
Be realistic.
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A
Exactly. But if I say, okay, I haven't been working out first I'm gonna do twice a week, right. Or I'm gonna do 30 minute walk so that I can reach the goal.
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B
Yeah, something obtainable, something real, something realistic for you in that moment doesn't mean you can't get to five minutes walks.
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A
You're gonna build up, but then your confidence is building because if you started so high and immediately fail, we give up. Instant let down.
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C
You let yourself down.
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B
Instant let down. People usually set a goal too high and then they fail when they don't reach that goal.
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A
And that's what happens with the New Year's resolutions, right?
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B
I don'.
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A
Yeah, we're just like set something you can keep up with that's sustainable, that will last.
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B
My advice to people in the New Year's resolution is just set a goal every day. Don't set a goal on the first of the year. Set a goal every day.
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A
What am I gonna do?
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C
Small attainable goals.
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B
Small attainable goals.
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A
There you go.
- [18:38]
B
That New Year's resolution thing is a bad relationship with goals. Real goals are things that you could really lock in and not put a date on it. And you just say, you know what, I want this to happen, so I'm gonna work towards it. And in my opinion, when people do this New Year. I used to be a New Year's resolution guy too. Until I realized like, every day is a chance to win.
- [18:58]
A
Uh huh. Every day is a chance. Every day is a chance to change. Get the T shirt. Every day is a chance to win.
- [19:03]
C
Yeah.
- [19:03]
B
Every day is a chance to change. Every day is a chance to be better. Every day is a chance to do better. Every day is a chance to really show up for yourself. Right? Because to me, when you set goals, it's only. That's like self help to me. It's like you're taking care of yourself. When you set good goals for yourself, it's respecting yourself in a sense. Like you want people to respect you, but you don't respect yourself half the time when you're not seeing your goals through, when you're not sticking to the regimen of making sure you're physically fit, you're mentally fit, you're emotionally fit. All of those things play a part into it. So that's kind of how I look at it.
- [19:39]
C
And I wanna go back and highlight the gratitude journal because gratitude journaling has actually transformed my life many of times when I've been in a low. And I love for people to know that it can be something as simple as writing down a couple of things that you're thankful for that can completely shift your mindset. So yeah, I really appreciate you talking about that.
- [20:00]
A
Thank you for sharing that you have done it. Because our gratitude helps to protect us against depression and despair. To feel. Because we can feel like everything is lost, that everything's a disaster. We call it catastrophizing. Right? That one thing goes wrong and now we think the whole thing's ruined. So then it helps us to be empowered enough to notice what went right. Yeah.
- [20:24]
B
Yeah, I love it. Now, Dr. Bryant, as we, as we kind of wrap it up, I know we gotta get you outta here, but I feel like in this timeframe we've really been spitting some gems. We really been really talking to the people. Gotta make sure I remind the subscribers to do what?
- [20:40]
C
Hit that subscribe button.
- [20:41]
B
Hit that subscribe button. If you haven't Subscribed and you're enjoying this conversation. Just take a little moment to hit that subscribe button before we finish. Cause I usually tell people in the end, they don't really like waiting till the end. So you gotta wait for this.
- [20:52]
C
Remind them throughout.
- [20:53]
B
I'm gonna remind you now. Subscribe. Hit that subscribe button. Drop a comment. As we wrap up, Dr. Bryant, I wanna know, what's your vision for the future of mental health, both in communities and on a personal level? And how can we all contribute to that vision? Us, the subscribers, the listeners, the people, the for good community. My for gooders, my good people, as I call em. How do we all kinda kind of do that?
- [21:12]
A
Yeah. So my vision is that we go beyond survival mode and actually think about thriving and flourishing. Because often mental health only focuses on how we can get rid of the distress, like decreased. Like our negative habits, our negative mindsets. But you might remove the negative mindset and still not have joy. Right. So then it's the good stuff. How do we cultivate that and encourage that with each other? And a part of how we do that in a community way is creating an atmosphere where people can tell us the truth.
- [21:49]
B
Yes, Ashley.
- [21:50]
A
Right. Because usually we're like, how are you? Fine. What's up? Nothing. And we keep it moving and so like slowing down and saying like, how's your heart? What is working for you these days? What's been challenging for you? So for us to be real community, then we'll create that kind of atmosphere where wellness can take place. Wow. Yeah.
- [22:10]
B
I mean, yeah, that's true.
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A
Yeah.
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B
I think having those conversations are the most important part. You know what I mean? When it comes to mental health, trauma, healing, all of that, I think people just want to talk and you need to be a sounding board sometimes for
- [22:24]
A
people to really listen, slow down and show up for people and this compassion and especially with the world that we're living in now. So with that whole piece of like, who's my neighbor? Right. And can we show up with compassion for each other?
- [22:40]
B
Man, this has been amazing. Dr. Tama. I really have enjoyed this conversation. Looks like my sister wants to say something.
- [22:46]
C
I'm just completely inspired. This is completely up my alley of just information that will really feed your soul.
- [22:53]
A
Yes.
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C
So this is amazing. I'm gonna go get your books. I wish you could sign them right now.
- [22:58]
B
So as we talk about the books. Right, Because I want you to before we get, please let everybody know where they can find your books, what books you have out and where they can find you. And everything that you have coming up.
- [23:08]
A
Absolutely. So matters of the heart is healing your relationship with yourself and those you love. A big predictor of our mental health are our relationships. When you have good friends, good love in your life, you feel better. So giving people the skills to how do I heal my heart so I can show up better in my relationships? And then homecoming. Homecoming is about coming back to your authentic self. So if you can honestly say there are aspects of me that I miss, right. I miss the part of me that was creative, or I missed the part of me that was spiritual, or I missed the part of me that was confident, or if I never got to develop those part, you can come home to yourself for the first time. And so homecoming helps you on that journey home. There's a workbook with homecoming called Reclaim Yourself. And so thinking about step by step, how you can reclaim yourself. And I connect with you all on the podcast Journey. My podcast is called Homecoming.
- [24:07]
B
I hope to be on it. I hope we can be on it.
- [24:09]
A
That would be wonderful.
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B
Yeah, let's swap it out.
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C
That would be amazing.
- [24:13]
A
So, and the books are available everywhere. Books are sold. And I do like to say, and I appreciate the publisher for this, along with the digital and hardback, there's also the audiobook. I love how good old man, I was able to read it. So you get to hear my voice.
- [24:28]
B
We get to hear your voice. How amazing.
- [24:30]
C
And your voice is very soothing, by the way. Put you at ease.
- [24:33]
B
I'm definitely going to purchase all those books as I've been us, we've been traveling a lot with this forego podcast hitting state to state. And I need a new book to read on these six hour, four hour, three hour flights. So I'm definitely gonna be tapping into those books. Make sure the community taps into those books. She's doing some great work out here. Like I tell everybody at the end of the conversation, I want to give you your four good flowers. They're not real flowers. They're just words of encouragement from us that all of great things that you've been doing for the community and yourself. I think the subject of trauma and healing is a very important subject because I think it's what makes the world go around in a. In a sense. Right. A lot of people deal with trauma. Not a lot of people. Everybody deals with trauma. Everybody deals with a way of how they want to try to figure out a way to heal it or sometimes they never heal it. So these conversations and people like you that are doing the research, that are really doing the real work that can explain to people why they're dealing with these traumas and how they can heal. It's important. It's super important for us to have people like you that continue to fight and do the work and make sure that people feel good and people feel right. You know what I mean? I heard you say something about feel good earlier, and I think, Danica, we should have a button every time the word good gets said on a Feel Good podcast where we kind of. She said the special word, a magic word, because that's what we represent here on the For Good podcast. Is everything good? Making sure, like I said in the beginning, you're good with you. Right. You know what I mean? Please, like, add to us Vanessa before we get out of here.
- [25:59]
C
No, this has been an amazing conversation, and I've loved everything that you've shared, and I know that our viewers will really appreciate the information you shared with us. And, yeah, like, I want to just go ahead and mirror what JoJo said and give you all your flowers, because these conversations are the conversations that are going to make us better.
- [26:16]
A
Thank you.
- [26:16]
B
Thank you.
- [26:17]
A
Well, I appreciate you all lending your platform to the issue of wellness. I think it will connect with a lot of people. I know it already does, but that you're getting the information to the folks that can use it. Yeah.
- [26:29]
B
Especially in our community with people that look like the three of us sitting here right now.
- [26:33]
A
That's right. We need. We need to be good. We need to.
- [26:36]
B
So thank you, guys, Community for another pod, another four Good episode. Make sure you guys hit that subscribe button. Please drop some comments. Like I've been saying in the last few episodes, I haven't seen enough comments. You know, I see a lot of views, I see a lot of likes. I, Some, Some. Some conversation going on, especially in conversations like these. But until next time, guys, this is the 4 Good podcast where we focus on the good, never the bad. And we're measured by what we do, not what we have. It's your guy. Jojo Simmons. Vanessa Simmons, Dr. Tama Bryant. We will see you guys next time on the For Good podcast. Peace.
- [27:07]
C
Bye.