← For Good
Loading summary
Transcript182 lines
- [00:02]
Lowe's Announcer
Pros save more on the materials you need to get the job done inside and out at Lowe's right now, get 10% off in stock Trex Naturals decking now available in more styles. Plus get 15% off select custom entry, interior and storm doors. Then we'll deliver it all straight to your job site. To help keep your jobs moving, get the brand's pros trust priced right and ready when you need them. Our best lineup is here at Lowe's, valid through 527 while supplies last selection varies by location.
- [00:30]
Lecrae
I'm also doing these big arena tours with Christians and they wilding what is going on here.
- [00:36]
JoJo Simmons
I've met some of my heroes or people that look up to them. Like I thought this person was really like a stand up dude.
- [00:41]
Lecrae
I'm on stage talking about God, but I'm getting drunk. I'm like, man, this is all fake. You can have the number one album in the world and your life behind closed doors is a disaster. I had a dream house, I had my dream car. I had everything. But internally I was a mess.
- [00:56]
JoJo Simmons
Conversation is the medicine to depression. Conversation is the medicine to isolation. Conversation and communication is the medicine to it all. If you let somebody be heard and you let somebody feel seen, they feel so much better when they walk away.
- [01:09]
Lecrae
I saw people who looked like me. I saw braids. I was like, how are y' all Christian? Even with y', all, pops is like. I think for him, he was trying to like show people you could still be you, but at the same time love God.
- [01:20]
JoJo Simmons
You can be faithful, love God and still have that swag. You don't have to get rid of that swag. Yeah, just give love and don't look for love all the time and don't look for things in return and move like you're already loved.
- [01:29]
Vanessa Simmons
That's just such a freeing statement. You don't have to earn love, you just are loved.
- [01:34]
Lecrae
I stopped looking for the next thing because I think that drives people crazy.
- [01:41]
JoJo Simmons
This is the For Good podcast and today's episode is sponsored by Van Dammes, the luxury energy drink that keeps your grind sharp and your vibe clean. Premium energy, no crash level. Up your day with Van Dammes. Stay woke. What's up everybody? It's your guy, JoJo Simmons.
- [01:57]
Vanessa Simmons
And I'm Vanessa Simmons.
- [01:59]
JoJo Simmons
And welcome back to the For Good podcast where we focus on the good, never the bad. And we're measured by what we do, not what we have.
- [02:07]
Vanessa Simmons
And today on the For Good podcast, we're joined by Lecrae, a Grammy award winning Artist, entrepreneur, and one of the most influential voices in Christian rap.
- [02:15]
JoJo Simmons
From co founding Reach Records to debuting at number one on the Billboard 200 with Anomaly, Lecrae has built a career rooted in authenticity, faith, and truth.
- [02:26]
Vanessa Simmons
Beyond the music, his journey reflects real growth, navigating identity, facing doubt, and speaking openly about mental health, purpose and social impact.
- [02:36]
JoJo Simmons
This conversation is about what it takes to evolve, stay grounded, and keep showing up as your full self. Let's get into it. Lecrae, we appreciate you coming on the For Good podcast, brother.
- [02:45]
Lecrae
That's all I love, man. I'm in here with hip hop royalty, you dig?
- [02:50]
JoJo Simmons
Ah, man, we appreciate the love, but we in here with a Grammy winner. That's what we in here. We're in here with a Grammy winner, which is not easy to come by in the world and in the music space. So, you know, congratulations obviously on that and. And ness, you ready to jump into it with Lecrae?
- [03:09]
Vanessa Simmons
I am now. I was gonna say not only a Grammy winner, but someone who uses their platform so amazingly and is just spreading the good word and such a great message. So we're so thankful to have you on with us today. And I'm gonna just jump right in and say, you know, you are a Grammy winner, New York Times bestselling author and activist and entrepreneur. But I think what we wanna know Today on the 4 Good podcast is who is Lecrae outside of all of that?
- [03:35]
Lecrae
Oh, man. You know, I think people would be a little bit surprised because, you know, sometimes they only get a little slice of you when it comes to the music or like, you know, social media or whatever. But. But, man, I'm just, you know, I'm a. I'm. I'm a clown. I like playing around. I'm goofy. I do pranks all the time. You know what I'm saying? I like, you know, I mean, I'm. I'm. I'm on a game. I'm on. I'm playing video games or I'm, you know, in the gym. But more than anything, man, I think I'm just. I just got real. I just got add, man. I just. When I focus on something, I'm focused on it. You know what I mean? So that's kind of, you know, it's a lot to me. But that's really, like, if you put something in front of me and I'm focused on it, then I'm just. I'm all in.
- [04:22]
JoJo Simmons
I love that. And talking about focusing on something. I want to get into you focusing on music. Right? Take us back to the beginning. When did music first come into your life?
- [04:35]
Lecrae
Man, I was a little kid, you know, and I. And my cousins would. They let me stay up late with them at my grandmother's house. So I was in Southern California at the time, and my cousins let me stay up late at my grandma's house, and they were watching rap videos. And I remember being five or six, just watching these rap videos, like, this is another world, you know what I mean? Just like, what is this planet? You know, I want to be a part of this. And I just started trying to imitate everybody that I saw on the screen. And my cousins noticed, like, hey, he's a height. Like that. You just made that up. So by 10, 11, I was just doing it all the time. And, you know, I was always the kid putting my friends onto the mixtapes and to whatever was new and what was coming out. So I was just always a kid who was up on something new. And they were like, man, you really take this serious? I quit watching cartoons to watch rap videos. So you know what I'm saying? That's how serious it got from me as a kid.
- [05:31]
JoJo Simmons
Was it always Christian rat for you or. It was. Did you start off.
- [05:35]
Lecrae
No, no, no, no. So that's the crazy part is that was the last thing I ever would have imagined. I really didn't grow up like my grandma was. Was a God fearing woman, But I didn't grow up going to church every Sunday or anything like that. I just. I just was trying to, you know, I wanted to be like my uncles. My uncles were in the streets, so I was just trying to follow them and be like them. It wasn't until I was about 19 that I really had a spiritual transformation where I was kind of like, all right, I done got in trouble. I done made some mistakes. Nothing. Like, I just seen a lot of people go to prison, A lot of people lose their lives. And I said, all right, how do I change? But I couldn't figure out how to do it. And it was dope because some friends of mine were Christians, and they invited me to come to a Bible study, which I thought was gonna be lame, but I saw people who looked like me. I saw braids. I saw. I was like, how are y' all Christian? You know what I'm saying? So essentially, like, it had been like, I don't know, like, a way to think about it. Like, even with y', all, Pops is like. I think for him, he was trying to, like, show people you could still be you. But at the same time, Love God. And that's what they were showing me. So I was like, oh, I could rock with this. And that was, like, the change for me.
- [06:51]
JoJo Simmons
That's exactly what the Rev is doing and has been doing. It's showing you that you can be faithful of God and still have that swag. You don't have to get rid of that swag.
- [06:58]
Lecrae
Yeah, yeah.
- [07:00]
Vanessa Simmons
And it's such an amazing testimony. And so you did kind of touch on it a little bit. But what was life like before Faith came into your life?
- [07:09]
Lecrae
Man, I was a disaster. I ain't gonna lie to you. I was a disaster, man. I just. You know, I didn't grow up with my pops. So my pops was in the. You know, he was in the streets, and he just wasn't around. And my uncles were, like, my only role models. They were only, like, 10 years older than me, so I just kind of followed them. And they were getting in trouble, going to prison, and I wanted to be like them, but I was artistic, you know what I'm saying? So it was a weird thing because my mom was on my head. She made me read books. She knew I was gifted. So it was like, I'm trying to be one foot in the streets and one foot in the arts, and it was this weird combination, and I really struggled. And I had, like, the. You know, if you ever seen the movie Dangerous Minds, like, it's like the white teacher who steps in is like, you're special. You know, I had, like, that Dangerous Minds teacher who was like, we're not gonna let you ruin your life. And just was, like, telling me all the things I could do. And she made me audition for this. For this performing arts ordeal, and I got accepted. So I got into a performing arts school, and that kind of changed a lot of my trajectory. So I still, you know, on Monday through Friday at school, I'm learning about performing arts. Then I'm back in the hood after school. So it's this weird combination, and I just knew I saw better, and I was trying to figure out how to be better before I met the Lord. So, you know, I did all this stuff, man. You name it, I did it. I was. I was wild and I was out there. If you name it, I did it. You know, we ain't got to give a resume, right?
- [08:44]
JoJo Simmons
Right, right. We get the wilding out. Memes in the streets mean, trust me, right? Some of it, too, brother. We ain't got to get it. You know, we ain't got. But I get it. And, you know, I find that interesting that you've always had. You've kind of always had this middle line of like, I'm wilding, but I kind of see faith. Right. I'm wilding, but I'm getting invited into these spaces that I may think look weird, but now I'm seeing people that look like me. And I wanted to talk about you getting into Christian rap, how it wasn't always accepted the way it is now. Right. So what did the early grind look like when you were just starting out, trying to even do Christian rap? Cause I was just having this conversation with a friend yesterday. I said, hey, I'm interviewing Lecrae. He's a. He's a preacher. His dad is a preacher. And I was like, we were excited. He was excited. Oh, yeah, that's really cool. I'm like, yeah, man. And we were just talking about it, and I was like, it's funny because I feel like before him, a lot of people weren't listening to a lot of Christian rap. They were, but I feel like you really helped it come to the forefront. Obviously, Todd Dolla signed Jumping in the Record, which you really helped it boost it to the masses. But, like, how was it first starting out, getting into Christian rap? I'm sure it was hard.
- [09:50]
Lecrae
Yeah. The thing for me is I never. It was like. I think it worked for me because I was a fan of hip hop, so I was never, like. I wasn't like the church kid who couldn't listen to. To mainstream hip hop. I was like the hip hop kid who found God. So I always worked on my skill set. I always cared about the craft. I always. I was up on everything. You know, I had a. One of my. Even though I was in Cali and I moved to Texas, one of my best friends, he moved out there from Brooklyn, and he would always bring me the mixtapes, and he would always say, man, you gotta rap like this, and you gotta use this and you gotta do this. So the skill set and the appreciation for hip hop was always in me when my faith, you know, when I had the spiritual transformation. I was trying to be, if I'm being honest, like, I was trying to be like Lauryn Hill, you know what I'm saying? Like, in my mind, I was like, what she did, I want to do. I wasn't trying to be like, I'm gonna be baby Kirk Franklin. I was like, how do I inject this new life I'm. I'm about into my rhymes, and people wasn't rocking with it. If I'm being honest. Like my. I had this breakout song, you know, locally. And my man AD, who was with Cash Money, he heard it. He took it to the mainstream labels, hip hop labels. And they was like, it's too gospel. So he said, they told us, take it to the gospel labels. I took it to the gospel labels. They said, it's too hip hop. So nobody really wanted to rock with me. I was just in this weird place, so I had to just kind of get it out the mud and create my own lane. And it made people like, what is he doing? Cause, you know, I see him with Static Selector and Big Crit and Todd Dollar Sign. But then I see him with Mary, Mary and Kirk, like, what is this? And it was like, man, it's just a lane that I got that may not, everybody may not get.
- [11:46]
JoJo Simmons
Yeah, you bridge the gap. I love how you. And I also love how you said, like, you weren't a kid that went to church but couldn't enjoy hip hop, right? You were a hip hop fan that found God. And that's how I always try to explain it to people. With us, like, we are preachers, kids, but we're first rappers kids, right? We were first, like, kids before we were. And then the Rev came in and it's like we were kids. That knows the lineage but also understands faith, right? We understand God because our Father found him at a very early, very early in our lives, right? So that's why I try to explain to people there is a sweet spot where you can still enjoy entertainment, you can still listen to things, but you know where your faith is, you know where your heart is, you know what's wrong from right? You know? You know what I mean? So I love how you broke that down because that's kind of how I be trying to explain to people. Like, I'm not just a preacher's kid, so don't judge me for everything. Like, I'm also a hip hop. You know what I mean? I kind of look at it now. Speaking about it. What was the first moment you felt like it could really work, you know? I know you spoke about how, like, people started seeing you with Mary Mary, but it also tied Dollar Sign. When did you feel like, oh, wow, this Christian rap thing is working for me?
- [12:50]
Lecrae
Shoot, when I could pay my bills, bro.
- [12:52]
JoJo Simmons
Yeah.
- [12:53]
Lecrae
You know what I'm saying? When I could pay my bills, you know what I'm saying? Like, I was just able to, you know, rap full time. I was, you know, I was. I. I had a 9 to 5, but I was working on an album at the same time. And honestly, like, when I started getting booked for shows, and it was like, man, I'm getting a booking every weekend. Like, every weekend, Every weekend. Every weekend. I start doing the math, and I'm looking at my rent and I'm looking at these shows, and I'm like, bro, I don't really have to work this 9 to 5. You know what I'm saying?
- [13:28]
Vanessa Simmons
Love it.
- [13:29]
Lecrae
And, yeah, so it just. When it would happen for me, it just was like, all right, bet. I'm gonna just. I'm gonna let this job go. To be fair, I hated my job. So I was working.
- [13:42]
JoJo Simmons
I was working for it.
- [13:43]
Lecrae
You said what?
- [13:44]
JoJo Simmons
God knew that.
- [13:46]
Lecrae
Yeah, God knew that. Facts. I hated my job. It was. It was. It was some girls at my job who, you know, I used to flirt with. Cause they thought I was cute. But I just wanted them to do my job for me so I could take longer lunch breaks and get some music, get to the studio. So I'll be like, hey, I need to run to the studio real quick. Can you handle. Da, da, da, da? And they was like, all right, we got you. And so shout out to them. If I see y' all on the streets one day, I owe y' all love. You know what I'm saying?
- [14:13]
JoJo Simmons
That's what's up. That's what's up. Now let's talk about the Grammy moment, man. Can you walk us through that moment? What was going through your head that first Grammy win? I know that is a wow. What an accomplishment, right? Walk us through that moment when you finally got that Grammy.
- [14:30]
Lecrae
So it was crazy. So I had, you know, I was green to this. You know, I was just. I didn't understand this whole entertainment world. So getting to the Grammys for me was like getting to see everybody who I ever wanted to see in my life as a kid. And, you know, my. I got this publicist, and my publicist is kind of green, too. So I'm with my publicist, and they, like, just trying to get me as many interviews as possible, you know? But my category's early, and my family's in there, My mom is in there, My friends are in there waiting for my category to get announced. My publicist is like, hey, we got this opportunity for you to do an interview on a red carpet with two chains and Nas. I said, oh, say less. I gotta do that. You know what I mean? I'm getting on this red carpet. So the bigger stars come later. So they are. So my category is getting announced, and I'M on a red carpet waiting to meet Nas for the first time.
- [15:32]
JoJo Simmons
Waiting for Grammy moment. Waiting to meet Nas, really.
- [15:34]
Lecrae
You know what I'm saying? So. So I'm sitting there waiting, and then my phone just start blowing up. I'm like, what's going on? My mom is like, she called. She said, get in here. They just called your name. And I'm like, oh, I didn't. I didn't really expect to win, being honest with you. You know what I'm saying? So it was kind of like, what? So I took off running, and I'm running down a red carpet trying to get backstage to the whole night. I had missed it all my friends and my producer got up and accepted the award. I had to run to backstage to catch up with him. So I didn't even get to accept it on stage. But. And I didn't meet Nas, so it was bittersweet, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, but it still was a moment, though. You know what I mean? It was dope.
- [16:17]
JoJo Simmons
That's a fun story to remember about it. Although you didn't get to meet Nas and you didn't get to official accept the award, I'm sure you'll never forget that moment where you. You won your first Grammy, man. That's. That's dope, bro.
- [16:29]
Vanessa Simmons
That's amazing. I love hearing that story. So thank you for sharing that with us. So now at this point, you are winning Grammys, you're selling out shows, you're reaching millions of people, but what was your inner life like? What was your inner. Inner world like?
- [16:46]
Lecrae
So that's a good question. When I first. When I first came into this industry, you know, I was real, like, the same energy I had in the streets, I had for God. It's kind of like with anything when you first find something, you are like, die hard. It's like when the person is first a vegan, they like, oh, never eat meat. You need to be a vegan.
- [17:09]
JoJo Simmons
You need to be a vegan.
- [17:10]
Lecrae
You need to be a vegan. So I was real aggressive with it when I first found God, and I'm making this music. And so when I. I got into the industry, you know, I was. I was kind of like that, you know, and then I'm. I'm on these big tours, and sometimes, you know, when I do, like, a Rock the Bells or something that's not a Christian tour or something like that, I expect there to be some chaos. But now I'm also doing these big arena tours with Christians, and they wiling
- [17:42]
Vanessa Simmons
I'm like, they wild.
- [17:45]
Lecrae
Like, what. What is going on here? You know, so I'm just so. It kind of took me back because I just was like, what's real? A lot. The best way I could. I could. I could articulate is like, when real street gangster dudes get into the music industry and they expect, like, these big rappers to really still be gangsters and stuff, and it's like, you know, you're not really a gangster. You like eating caviar. Yeah. You know, So I was like, oh, y' all not really serious about God. Like, so it kind of messed me up, you know, I was a little dazed and. And so I got just disoriented and I just kind of like. It just was like, well, man, I don't know what to do. I don't know what's. What's real, what's not real, what's fake, what's not fake. So I went through a dark period where I was just kind of going through the motions and I really didn't care. And I was like, well, if they wilding over here, I can just go back to doing what I was doing before I met the Lord. So, you know, I went back, I'm like, wow, I may. I'm on stage talking about God, but I'm getting blown, you know, green. I'm getting drunk. I'm like. I'm like, man, this is all fake. And my internal life was crumbling, you know what I'm saying? And so what ended up happening is you would think that God would, like, tear everything down, but I just kept elevating, even though my life was looking crazy. And now I'm getting arrogant and I'm getting like, you know, just feeling myself. And I think it just got so dark where I was. I was pushing away the depression. I was really going through, the spiritual depression. I was really acting like it wasn't there. But then it just kept rising up, rising up, like, you don't have no integrity. Like, you're not really, like, who are you? And I think it all just came to a head where I just went into a deep depression. I couldn't shake it. So I ended up, you know, talking to some good friends, talking to a pastor, going to therapy. And, man, it was about a two year process of really just healing and getting whole and being able to navigate, you know, all of it. But I'm glad because, you know, a lot of people think success means you got it all together and everything is perfect and there's no problems and no issues. But I'm glad I went through that because it showed me like, no, you can have the number one album in the world and your life behind closed doors is a disaster. I had a dream house, I had my dream car. I had everything. But internally I was a mess. So it just, it was good for me to see that.
- [20:19]
Vanessa Simmons
Wow, that's so deep. Thank you for sharing that with us. I feel like so many people need to hear that, you know, to see a different perspective. So thank you for sharing that for sure.
- [20:29]
JoJo Simmons
I want to say the same thing as. But thank you for sharing that. Very vulnerable. Thank you for keeping it real. I've been through those moments too, where I've met some of my heroes or people I look up to. I'm like, this is all fake. This person isn't what I thought he was or this person isn't. This person isn't as faithful to his wife as I thought he was. And I thought he was me. I thought he was like, me and you guys are out here. I had that same moment with certain people. I thought this person was really like a stand up dude.
- [20:55]
Lecrae
Yeah.
- [20:56]
JoJo Simmons
Makes them out. But they're over here wilding, doing everything they not supposed to be doing. And I thank you for saying that too, because I always thought that too. Sometimes even in, you know, I guess Christian rap or gospel music, like some people do maybe take advantage or some people do understand that they could, they could, you know, capitalize off of, off of God, but not fully live the righteous path when they're doing that. I appreciate you point that out and say, hey, I was, I was bugging, I was, I got influenced because I saw, hey, if they could do it, I might as well do it. Right. And that you found yourself, though, which is so much more important is I'm sure the people you were with, some of them still haven't found themselves, but you found yourself because you knew it was wrong. Your faith to God, your belief knew, like, this isn't what I'm supposed to be doing while I'm performing these type of, you know, this type of music. You know what I mean?
- [21:46]
Lecrae
Right, right, right.
- [21:47]
JoJo Simmons
I know that. You know, I love how we got this deep. And I know most people know you as an artist. Right, but you've grown so much more. What is it like diving into the evolution of being an author and an activist?
- [22:00]
Lecrae
Yeah, well, see, my mother, My mother was raised by the Black Panthers, you know what I'm saying? So they fed her breakfast as a kid. She always instilled that activism in me, even As a. As a young kid, you know, so she was always on my head about standing up for your rights and, you know, disenfranchised people. My uncles, my pops, like, they spent time in prison and in jail. So I would. When I'm visiting family, I see, like, these are still human beings, you know what I mean? And, like, society throws them away. I mean, not saying they didn't do anything wrong, but just saying, like, yo, you can't just make a person a slave because they made poor decisions. You know what I mean? So for me, that stuff just. It gripped me, and it influenced me to, like, be a voice. And when I see wrong, then my faith kicked in. You know, you start looking at Martin Luther King and you start. It's like, oh, no. If I see wrong, like, this is wrong is wrong, and I gotta say something about it or stand up for people, especially, you know, I'm not. I'm not the person that's gonna, like, run up on people and, like, act like I'm better than them and I'm righteous, and they nod and, like, tell them about their life. I don't condemn folks, but I am the person who stands up against bullies. You know what I'm saying? And when people are taking advantage of folks, I'm like, nah, I don't like that. So I think that's where it came from. And then I was like, I got a platform. And I was like, I remember when Colin Kaepernick went through everything he went through, and I just was like, yo, forget it. I'm about to just post something. And I remember it went viral, and I was like, whoa. And then the hate start coming at the same time as the love start coming. And the news called, and then everyone's like, yo, can you come talk about this? And then I just found myself like, oh, there's not really a lot of Christian voices who have something to say about unarmed black people getting killed. You know what I'm saying? So I was like, let me be that. Because a lot of people was mad at Christians. They was like, why y' all so quiet? Where the church at? You know? And I was like, all right, well, let me be that voice in the midst of this chaos. Yeah.
- [24:14]
JoJo Simmons
Oh, you took on that responsibility?
- [24:17]
Lecrae
Yeah, for sure. For sure.
- [24:19]
Vanessa Simmons
Yeah. So I've watched a lot of. Few of your interviews, and I've read. I've seen that you've been very open about, you know, your struggles with depression, anxiety, and addiction. When did you first realize that you were struggling mentally?
- [24:34]
Lecrae
Yo, it's a crazy story. So, you know, I had my issues as a teenager, you know what I'm saying? Like, I lashed out, I ran away, I got high, I did all kind of crazy stuff. But I think when it became real for me was I was in my Maybe. Maybe early 20s, probably early 20s. And I was at this young lady's house and her and I were cool, you know what I'm saying?
- [25:05]
JoJo Simmons
But.
- [25:06]
Lecrae
But her boyfriend was real jealous. So her boyfriend was super jealous. And he. He called her, like, who's in the background? And I knew who he was. I was like, this dude is. Man, cut it out. So I'm like. I'm like, bro, why are you acting like somebody's scared of you? I'm just talking in the background, rah, rah. Like, ain't nobody scared of you, bro. Like, talking about, like, you know what I mean? I'mma be where I'm at. And he got. He got upset. So she was like, man, he said he might come. I was like, tell him to come. I don't care. So I'm, you know, I'm. I'm. I'm a little tipsy and I'm like, whatever. But he, He. He's taking forever. So I'm like, man, I'm out. So I leave on my way out. I don't realize he's coming in. As I'm going out of her complex, he sees me, but I don't see him. And I just hear the gunshots. And I'm like, what was that? I don't know. I'm getting shot at. You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't even realize it. Or he's shooting in the air, whatever the case may be. So she calls my phone later on that night, and she's like, are you okay? This, this and this. And he was shooting. And so I'm like, what? That was him? He was. Now just rage comes over me. I'm like, yo, I gotta go find a weapon of mass destruction and go do something to this dude. And I'm on my way to go get a weapon, and I'm literally starting to skits. It's like. It's kind of like when you watching television and the. The TV starts going in and out, like, that's what it felt like my brain was doing. It was having these weird, like, moments, and it was like, yo, run your car into this car to the left. I'm like, what? What is going on? It's like, yo, just. Just flip the whole car over. Yo, run into this building. And I'm like, yo, my brain is flipping right now. What's going on right now? Like. And so I just. Like, it was a weird experience. So I just drove to the hospital, which was right by me, and I said, yo, I'm bugging. I'm thinking about this, this, this, this. I'm about to go do this. And they were real candid with me. They said, man, the stuff that you just said is so dangerous and scary. Like, you're gonna have to go to jail or you're gonna have to be checked into a rehab facility. Wow. And. And I was like, oh, shoot, I didn't realize that. So I said, I'll take the rehab, please. So now I'm sitting in there and I get evaluated and so on and so forth. And they asked me about my family history and mental health and stuff, and I realized, like, I got a family history of anxiety, depression, and it's like, man, you triggered all of those things. And that's when I first realized, like, oh, this is a thing. You know, I thought it was all just, like, something people talk about, but it was like, I experienced it for the first time. Wow. What a story, man.
- [27:56]
JoJo Simmons
What a. You got me at the edge of my seat, my brother. What a story, man.
- [28:00]
Vanessa Simmons
I keep leaning in
- [28:04]
JoJo Simmons
documentary right now, brother. Like, what a story.
- [28:08]
Vanessa Simmons
It was a movie rolling in my head. I saw the whole thing.
- [28:11]
JoJo Simmons
I envisioned the complex. I envisioned the gun. I envisioned all of it. I envisioned him even in the car wanting to turn the. I envisioned you going into the hospital. I envisioned all of it, bro.
- [28:21]
Vanessa Simmons
So, yeah, thank you for sharing that with me.
- [28:24]
JoJo Simmons
I'm happy to check yourself in as well. Right?
- [28:26]
Lecrae
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I. And, you know, since then, you know, like, you know, therapy wasn't a thing back then, so I wish I would have went, but I didn't go. So, you know, I had just moments over the course of my life since therapy. Like, it's like, oh, I know what's happening. And it's like, oh, you just a little anxious right now. Just chill, you know, Breathe, meditate. Like, that's it. You know what I'm saying? Like, oh, you spiraling into a depressed state. Like, chill. Like, go touch grass. You know what I'm saying?
- [28:54]
Vanessa Simmons
What are the techniques that you do? What are the techniques that you do to calm down and ease anxiety when it comes. When it comes up?
- [29:02]
Lecrae
Yeah, a lot of it is, man. Just understanding my nervous system, you know? Like, I. I think ye said he got a gentle mental. And I. And I Like, that it's like just knowing, like, you know, certain people can probably handle things that I wouldn't be able to handle the same. So for me, it's like, let me go. I'll meditate. You know, I'll get up in the morning and I'll just like, yo, let me quiet my mind and meditate. Life start getting stressful. High stress. Tours, label, family, all these things. And it's like, yo, it's starting to get a little chaotic. This is why people crash out and do wild stuff, or they get drunk or they get high. And for me, I'm just like, let me go, meditate. Let me just chill, take 20 minutes, meditate. And it just recalibrates my brain. I exercise crazy every day because it's. That's the same as taking an antidepressant, you know what I'm saying? So that's really helped me. And then meeting with my therapist, of course, when it's like, all right, I'm struggling to get through some stuff, and that's helped me out a lot.
- [30:10]
JoJo Simmons
Love it. Van Deezy Van Dammes, man. The luxury energy drink. You wanna keep your grind sharp and your vibe clean with a luxury premium drink. No crash. Make sure you tap in with Van Dammes. Yes, sir. Stay woke.
- [30:23]
Vanessa Simmons
And just for our listeners, a lot of people cite fight depression in. In silence most of the time. What made you want to share your story?
- [30:35]
Lecrae
Because I see so many people suffering in silence and, and, and, and I feel sad for them because especially people with a platform. I'm like, well, they don't have a microphone or, you know, a television podcast or anything like that. So they don't know this is a normal thing. And I saw Taraji speak out about it, and I saw the Rock speak out about it, and that really helped me to feel like, all right, I'm not alone. So then I said, yo, let me say something about it. You know, it's a lot of people like Martin Luther King struggle with depression. A lot of people have battled this. And when I, you know, I go to the prisons a lot. Like, I go to, like, I've been to, like, so many different prisons to do, like, mentorship programs and concerts. And a lot of those individuals in M and A are struggling, but they can't show it. You know what I'm saying? They like, nah, I'm not allowed to show it. The dude on the corner who is the stick up kid is battling depression or, you know, ptsd, but there's no language for that. So you just say, he Wild, you know what I mean? And so I just wanted to be a voice, man. I just felt like there weren't enough voices. I had this other friend. Just another quick story. I had his other homie named. Named Hodge. And Hodge was Hodge. They thought he was psycho. Like, he was just massive, dude. And I remember we would walk through the halls in high school, and he would just. He was crazy. He would take, like, a basketball and just see a kid in the hallway and just throw it at the back of their head as hard as he could. Just laugh. And people thought, yo, man, he's psycho. Like, dude is crazy. Nobody wanted to fight him. He was like this menacing figure. But he was my man and he trusted me, and he knew I love art and music. And one day we in a car, man, and he said, hey, can I tell you something? I said, yeah, what's up, man? He said, man, I really love this song. And it was like a slow R and B record. And you know what I'm saying? I was like, word? He said, yeah, don't tell nobody, man. This calms me down. Cause sometimes my brain, I start freaking out, and this song just calms me down. And that never left me. Because the world saw him as just like the most menacing figure. But he was. But he was like, with me, he was like, hey, I want to let you know, like, even the giant needs to be soothed. His soul needs to be soothed.
- [32:59]
Vanessa Simmons
Yeah.
- [32:59]
Lecrae
You know what I mean?
- [33:00]
JoJo Simmons
Great story.
- [33:01]
Lecrae
Wow.
- [33:02]
Vanessa Simmons
Thank you so much for sharing that. I feel like a lot of people need to hear that. People struggle in silence. And then when people like you come forward and tell your story, it makes them not feel so alone and, you know, move towards the road, towards recovery. And through everything you've been through, you know, the recovery, the. The. The depression, the trauma, what does faith mean to you today?
- [33:26]
Lecrae
Yeah, man. I mean, you know, it's funny because faith is simple. Like, grandma, it's simple. It's like, you know, Jesus is real. He loves you. He's inviting you in. Trust him. Give him your life. And faith is complex as well. So that's the thing I love for me right now is, like, I need the simplicity of it so that I don't have to feel like I gotta have everything figured out. Like, it's like, look, man, all I know is, man, I was blind, now I see. I don't know how to tell you much else, but I was in a dark place and he gave me light. But I like the complexity. Because if somebody's like. Like Me and Killer Mike. Killer Mike's one of my. One of my guys. You know, we'll have these heated exchanges. Not heated, but we'll have some exchanges. And one time he was like, man, all Christians vote Republican. They be molesting kids. They do this, they do this. And I was like, that's not true, though, about all of us. You know what I'm saying? And I love being able to present him some complexities. Or when people say, oh, it's a white man's religion, it's a slave religion. I love being able to. To present complexities and say, like, nah, my faith is as complex as you need it to be, or it's as simple as you need it to be. And that's everything to me, man. That's everything. It's as simple as Granny, who. She don't know a lot. She got a 12, 8th grade education, but she know he rose again. And it's as complex as the scientist who's trying to figure out the meaning of life and matter and all of that type of stuff. So.
- [35:05]
Vanessa Simmons
Absolutely. That was deep. Yeah.
- [35:08]
JoJo Simmons
Facts. Now, like, my sister and I, I see you started your own podcast. The Deep End, for sure. Build that space. What made you say, let me step into the podcast space and start this up?
- [35:21]
Lecrae
I wasn't gonna do it, being honest with you. My cousin actually had a podcast. His name is Tim Ross. Tim had a podcast. And he was like, yo, man, you ought to do a podcast. And his was doing really well, especially in, like, the Christian circles. And I was like, I don't even know what I would talk about, bro. Like, he was like. He was like, man, you share so many vulnerable stories and vulnerable stuff. Start with that. So I was like, all right, I. I guess, you know, so I tried that. And then people resonated with it and they rocked with it. And I was like, interesting. And then I got to a place, too, where I was like, I never forget seeing Aisha Curry on the red table, and she was just telling her story, her truth, you know, and they destroyed her in the social media. And I was like, that's not fair that people don't have a safe place to just wrestle with stuff. And so I wanted to kind of create that, like a safe place for people to just be like, look, I don't got it all figured out. I don't know exactly what I believe about my faith. I don't know this. I don't know this. And I want to be able to throw it on the table and not be judged and I'm like, let's do that. And so that's really kind of what I wanted to create.
- [36:37]
JoJo Simmons
You know, I love that because that's how this podcast came about as well. Like, you know, when me and my two buddies first started the company that produces this podcast, it wasn't gonna start off as a podcast. It was a bunch of other things that we still do, you know, today in the media space. But, you know, people were like, hey, you've got a fan base. And I was like, you, what do I talk about? Right? And the same thing, vulnerability. People like, yo, you're good at being vulnerable. You're good at not judging people, you're good at letting. You're good at telling your story without caring about what people think and start there. And that's kind of where it started, was like a community of like minded people that are not afraid to come on and be vulnerable. Because I'm not gonna judge you. Like you said, I'm not here to condemn you. That's not my job. You know what I mean? We all know the Bible. That's not our job to condemn or judge anybody else. So that's why I created this space. And then what really doubled down was I love conversation. And I think everybody has a story that needs to be told and everybody wants to be heard. I think people love feeling valued. So right before I started this podcast, what really gave me a sign was I was in a supermarket one day and I was shopping and I ended up talking to this older lady in the aisle for like 15 minutes. I didn't want to talk that long, but I could tell she needed it. And at the end of the conversation, she said, I haven't spoken to somebody in a week. I really needed that. Thank you so much. And that's when I realized that conversation was the medicine to everything. Conversation is the medicine to depression. Conversation is the medicine to isolation. Conversation and communication is the medicine to it all. If you let somebody be heard and you let somebody feel seen, they feel so much better when they walk away. And that's why I wanted to start this podcast, was to, like, you let people wrestle with that, right? Wrestle with their vulnerabilities without feeling like they're gonna. Somebody's gonna say, that's horrible. Oh, you're. We don't allow that in our comments section. We delete them. We get them out of here. You're not allowed to do that because these are people that are pouring their heart out when it's Grammy, Grammy winners like you, Lecrae, or A therapist that we've had that may have 3,000 followers. We love everybody on this podcast. So I love why you started Deep End because it's literally in the same space that we're in. So thank you for sharing that.
- [38:45]
Lecrae
So what you saying is, if I fly out to y', all, y' all gonna be on my podcast then? For sure.
- [38:52]
JoJo Simmons
Where you located?
- [38:53]
Vanessa Simmons
Let us.
- [38:55]
Lecrae
All right, done.
- [38:56]
JoJo Simmons
Where you located? Lecrae.
- [38:57]
Lecrae
I'm in Atlanta, but I'll be. I'll be mobile. Wherever you at.
- [39:01]
JoJo Simmons
We're supposed to be doing an Atlanta trip. We're still putting it together. We got a couple people who want to do interviews out there, so we may be coming to you. So if we come to you, I was gonna ask, do you want me on there? You know, I love to come on the people, you know what I mean?
- [39:17]
Lecrae
Yeah, yeah.
- [39:17]
JoJo Simmons
I want.
- [39:18]
Lecrae
Yeah, I want the whole. I want the. I want the growing up hip hop.
- [39:23]
JoJo Simmons
I got you. I got you. I'm a holla at Little Easy E and see if he's available. You know what I mean?
- [39:29]
Vanessa Simmons
Well, that would be a fun one.
- [39:31]
JoJo Simmons
Yeah, that's my guy.
- [39:32]
Lecrae
Yeah. Yeah. Nah, that's dope. I appreciate it, man. Like, always, like, yeah, I did it because I have a. I look at myself as a bridge, you know, and relatable. And, you know, obviously, like, there's what I call super Christians. They don't like it. They, you know, they're a little more critical. But, you know, it's like, man, I'm. I'm. I love them, too. You know what I'm saying? So it's like, I love the super religious people, and I live for that because I'm here to show them, like, hey, look, I'm going to do this my way. You do it your way, and let's see what happens. I agree what I'm saying. Let's see what happens.
- [40:07]
JoJo Simmons
I super agree, my brother. I super, super duper, duper agree. So I love that.
- [40:12]
Lecrae
Yeah.
- [40:14]
Vanessa Simmons
So I had a question. A lot of people are struggling with attaching their worth to what they do. Like, it's just a big conversation going on. You touch millions of people. How do you separate your worth from, you know, your career, all that you've done and are doing?
- [40:31]
Lecrae
That's a really good question, man. I think, again, like, that's. That. That time period I went through where I was just struggling. And, you know, I remember just going in my little. My. My. My home studio and just taking all the plaques off the walls and just like. Like, yo, man, Like. Like, this is not who I am. You know what I mean? And. And. And, you know, going back to my roots and realizing, like, identity is not something you achieve, it's something that you receive. You know, I mean, like, I was already valuable when I was. When I came to the planet. And I think a lot of times we don't remember that. You know, we're wonderfully and fearfully made. Like, God. God made you, so you already valuable. We just keep trying to, like, add stuff to us, thinking that it makes us more valuable, but it's like, cut it out. It's kind of like. And I mean, no shade to anybody who does this, but it's like going out and buying a $250,000 watch and then like, adding all kinds of crazy stuff to it. You know what I'm saying? It's like, yo, the watch was already valuable, my guy. Like, what are you doing? Like, you're not helping it.
- [41:43]
JoJo Simmons
You.
- [41:43]
Lecrae
You're actually messing it up. You know what I'm saying? And so I think that's really what it comes down to. So for me, I want to move out of love and not out of, like, trying to earn love. I want to move out of the fact that I'm already loved. I don't want to earn it.
- [42:01]
JoJo Simmons
Yeah.
- [42:01]
Lecrae
You know, I just saw the Michael Jackson movie, and it's funny because looking at Michael and, like, behind closed doors, like, he didn't have to go visit those kids in the hospital. Like, that's not doing nothing for him. That's not adding no notches on his belt. But he did that because he was already in a position to give back. You know what I'm saying? And I think that's really what it is for me, is, like, put myself in a place where, like, go help somebody who can't do nothing for you, who can't build you up and make you look greater than you are. And I think that keeps you in a healthy. In a humble place. And so I try to do that a lot more. It's tough. I'll be fair. It's also just the people that you keep around you. If you got people around you who. I mean, I'm talking to y'.
- [42:52]
JoJo Simmons
All.
- [42:52]
Lecrae
Y' all know.
- [42:52]
Vanessa Simmons
No, but no environment matters.
- [42:55]
JoJo Simmons
Crazy is. I'm. I'm rereading this book that I love. It's how to Win Friends and Influence People. And I know that the title sounds like you're trying to win people over, but it's totally not about that. Right. And I literally posted today I highlighted, like, do things basically, like, do good things for people without wanting things in return. Just do it out of the goodness of your heart. Right. Like, that's. That's the ultimate authenticity, is like, not trying to say, hey, man, that's a really nice chain you got. I'm hoping you'll say, that's a really nice chain you got on, too. It's just me genuinely saying, that chain looks good on you, bro. You know what I mean? And I think that's kind of what you're saying too, is like, you know, just give love and don't look for love all the time and don't look for things in return and move like, you're already loved, you know?
- [43:36]
Lecrae
Yeah. You're already somebody. I love Saying, like, that's.
- [43:39]
Vanessa Simmons
That's just such a freeing statement. It just makes you feel free, like, you don't have to earn love, you just are loved and flow with that.
- [43:46]
Lecrae
That's right.
- [43:47]
Vanessa Simmons
So freeing.
- [43:47]
JoJo Simmons
Right?
- [43:48]
Vanessa Simmons
Yeah.
- [43:48]
JoJo Simmons
Now, as a kid that was raised in a public eye with a famous dad, and I know Vanessa's a mom, I'm a dad. Right. I'd love to talk about what, like, you have kids, you're raising kids in a very public way, you know? And that's why I said, how does being a father show up in the way you move through the world, you know, with this public life and the things that you have going on and who you are, how does that play out into it?
- [44:14]
Lecrae
Yeah. I always. I was very fortunate to become a parent during the social media era. So I was able to see, like, you know, watch, like, people raise their kids and see, like, okay, don't do this, do do this, don't do that, do do this. And for me, I just never wanted my kids to feel pressure. I wanted them to be able to feel like they could choose whatever route they want to choose. You know, they didn't ask for this life. You know, they didn't ask for public eye. They didn't ask for all of that. So I didn't try to force that on them or, like, make them be a part of my whole ecosystem. And then the other thing I learned, too, it took me a second to learn this, but it's like, kids want their own life. Like, a lot of times your kids life centers around you because you're the. You know, it's like you're the star, you know, so it's like, I got a show. So we got a show. And it's like, But I wanted to watch football, you know what I mean, so I had to learn just like, yo, my world is not your world. You know what I mean? And your world don't have to revolve around mine. What are you interested in and what do you want to do and how can I invest into you and your interests? And so I never pushed them into music. I mean, they are all musical and they're talented, but they're just creatives because their dad is a creative. And I'm like, well, explore however you want to be creative. You know what I'm saying? You know, you young, you got plenty of ways to flesh that out. But I've seen people who, like, you know, it's like, look, I'm popping right now. You put words together well, for a seven year old, we gonna make you a star. And it's like, is that the healthiest thing? I don't know, right? Or is that what they really want to do? If it's what they want to do, that's different, but.
- [46:04]
JoJo Simmons
Right?
- [46:04]
Lecrae
Yeah.
- [46:05]
JoJo Simmons
Nah, I love that. I love how you broke that down for sure. Same here.
- [46:10]
Lecrae
Yeah. So that's. I don't know. I do wonder for y', all, though. I'm curious if I could ask y', all, like, what do y' all do different? Not no shade to Yalls upbringing and Yalls family. It's a beautiful thing. But I'm just saying, as parents, what do y' all do different because of the experiences that y' all had as kids?
- [46:29]
JoJo Simmons
I would say the same as you. What you just said is like realizing that they don't have to do what we did. They don't have to even do what the legacy calls for them to do, right? It's all about, like, what are you interested in doing? Because, like, you, your kids. My kids are creative, very creative. I know my niece, but, you know, Ava's very creative as well. So it's like, it's really just letting them do what they do and supporting that, right? And ultimately, they. They love the family they come from. So, like, they're kind of like, oh, maybe I do want to be an entertainer. But I like what you said is like, just because we see the talent doesn't mean we have to go gung ho and be like, yo, let's go make you a star.
- [47:05]
Lecrae
What do you really want to do?
- [47:06]
JoJo Simmons
Right? You might just be good at something, but that might not be what you really want to do. I tell my daughter that all the time. Like, she's good at basketball. You may not be a WNBA star. You may be able to just grow older and say, I can really just beat anybody in basketball if I feel like playing basketball. Right. So that's just kind of. Kind of how we. I just say, man, be what you want to be. You don't have to follow in any footsteps. You just do what you want, and dad's going to be here to support it. You know what I mean? I said, I don't care if you end up being a police officer, a doctor, whatever your heart desires. Right.
- [47:33]
Lecrae
That's dope.
- [47:34]
Vanessa Simmons
Yeah. I agree with both of you guys. I think it's just for me, is letting her explore and do as many things as possible and not feel like, yeah, she has to be married to that particular activity or anything. Just letting her know that sky's the limit. So teaching her the.
- [47:49]
JoJo Simmons
Sorry,
- [47:52]
Vanessa Simmons
yeah, but this life is hard. Giving her the chance to explore and not feeling like she has to do anything because, you know, this is what your family does, or you have to get into the family business, but allowing her to be an individual, individual and just be there to support that and, you know, supply the love that she needs. Yeah.
- [48:08]
JoJo Simmons
Yeah.
- [48:09]
Lecrae
Good. So I'm doing the right thing. Thank you.
- [48:12]
JoJo Simmons
Wrong thing. As a parent, we all just. We're doing what we can in the households that we have. Right. You know what I mean? Boy, will you tell us, you know, as long as we love and care for them and make sure they. They. They good, we doing our part, right?
- [48:24]
Lecrae
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's good.
- [48:26]
Vanessa Simmons
Parenthood is hard. Yeah.
- [48:28]
Lecrae
Boy,
- [48:31]
Vanessa Simmons
how old are your kids?
- [48:33]
Lecrae
I got two high schoolers and one middle schooler. So I got a, you know, they all, you know, between 14 and 17. So they. They up there now, man. I started young, and I'm glad, too, because I'll be young when they leave.
- [48:48]
JoJo Simmons
That's what I like. Yeah, I feel the same way. Like, I'm not that young, but I'm young enough that when my. My kids are old enough, I'll. I'll have some spunk. Me and wifey will have some spunk in us to travel and let them do them now.
- [49:01]
Lecrae
Yeah.
- [49:02]
JoJo Simmons
How has your definition of success changed after everything you've been through? We spoke about all of this today and this. And so I know before when you got the Grammy, you probably thought that was success. And before, you know what? How has your definition of success changed from then to there?
- [49:18]
Lecrae
Nah, that's good. Like you said, I mean, you don't know. I wasn't ever chasing anything because I didn't know what was available for me. You Gotta remember, I'm in this. I'm this Christian rapper. So every step I take is like a new frontier. You know what I mean? So for me, the biggest thing I ever imagined was doing the BET cypher. And when I did that, I was like, I made it. You know, that was the biggest.
- [49:46]
JoJo Simmons
Alumni here. Alumni here. I made it. I felt like I made it too. Alumni.
- [49:51]
Lecrae
You know what I'm saying? It's like, oh, that's it. I did it. I'm done. I'm cooked. I'm. I've arrived. And then it's like, you take another step and it's like, yo, we had a number 11 album, a number three, a number one, and then it's. It's. You know, we won a Grammy, we did a tiny desk. It's like, oh, wow. You know, you. There's just always a thing. And what I think I learned through this whole process is I stopped looking for the next thing because I think that drives people crazy. And it never ends either. It's like when you are in kindergarten, you're like, man, I can't wait to go to first grade. Then you like, I can't wait to go to middle school. Then you're like, I can't wait to go to high school. I can't wait to graduate. I can't wait to. You know what I mean? It's like, it never stops. So for me, I just try to enjoy the moment. And success to me is not what I do compared to other people. Cause all that stuff is a comparison game. Who won it, who didn't win it, who's number one, who. Who got picked, who didn't. Success to me is what I do compared to what I was made to do. And how am I doing it? That. You know what I mean? And that. And that's it.
- [51:00]
JoJo Simmons
That's a great answer. I need people definitely. That's watching to definitely hear that. Don't define success off what somebody else is doing. Defining on what you're doing. And what I always say, my success is defined off of. Well, am I further than what I was last year? You know what I mean? I don't feel like I've progressed, then I need to look at life and say, okay, I gotta adjust. And if I feel like, oh, I may not have made a hugest step, but I made a small step from where I was, and that's success to me.
- [51:27]
Lecrae
That's good, man. That's. That Atomic habits right there, sir.
- [51:30]
Vanessa Simmons
Atomic habits.
- [51:31]
JoJo Simmons
Love that book.
- [51:33]
Vanessa Simmons
So you share so many gems with us. Today. Thank you so much for that. But for someone who may be listening right now that is silently struggling, what is one thing you want them to take away from your story that might be impactful for them today?
- [51:47]
Lecrae
Man, just that, like, it's a story. You know what I'm saying? Like, life is a story. And if you woke up today, your story's not done.
- [51:55]
JoJo Simmons
You know what I mean?
- [51:56]
Lecrae
And so it's like we're all in the middle of this story that's being told and being written. And every moment you breathing is an opportunity for a new chapter, for the page to turn. Like, it's not over cause you woke up. So keep going. You know what I'm saying? All the best stories in the world have, like, somebody overcame something, and it's like, this is that part in your story. You know, there's gonna be a lot of different mountains that you gotta overcome and climb and just. You can't stop. You just cannot stop. You know what I mean? And I know some people don't feel like. But trust me, like, you know, like what JoJo just said, it's like, just go an inch further than you were yesterday, you know? I'm saying if you couldn't get out the bed yesterday, get out today, go to the kitchen, you know what I'm saying? Like. Like, go to the kitchen at least today, you know? I mean, and just keep progressing.
- [52:51]
JoJo Simmons
No, that's.
- [52:52]
Vanessa Simmons
That was good.
- [52:53]
JoJo Simmons
That's literally what how I live every day. I live off that energy every day. I preach it every day. Every day is another chance to do something. Even waking up is a win. You know, my mantra is, let's get a win today. And, you know, even if it's a small win, look at the wins that you can get throughout the day instead of looking for the hugest win that you're aiming for. It's just, let's get a win today. Whatever that is looks like to you. Whether that's getting out of your bed and breathing, that's a win. Whether that's, you know, you had a really good conversation at work, that's a win. You had a really good gym session, that's a win. You was locked in on your diet, that's a win. Like, let's just get a win today. Whatever a win looks like, let's get it today. And that's what I try to tell people. It's just like, man, like, every inch eventually creates a yard, right? So, you know, are you tweeting from
- [53:37]
Lecrae
the bathtub right now?
- [53:39]
Vanessa Simmons
I mean, I was Gonna say this whole conversation. Okay. He bought out the mini rev in him today. Like, you know, it's Lecrae's in here. Lecrae got it.
- [53:46]
JoJo Simmons
Lecrae got me in my bag, man. He's out here doing. You know, he's out here preaching, too, man. You got me in my bag. But, Lecrae, as before we wrap this up, I want to. First of all, I want to thank you for coming on the For Good podcast. This has been a great conversation, man. Like, I was excited for this one. I know Vanessa was excited for this one. I got people that you don't even know excited for this one. Like, I'm gonna go talk to Lecrae. And it did not disappoint my brother. This has not disappointed this conversation. From the stories to the vulnerability to the transition to you just being real about everything, it's been so real. So before we get out of here, we have to give you what we give all our guests. They are our four good flowers. They're not physical flowers. Obviously, you're all the way in Atlanta. We're here. But they are words of encouragement to tell you that. Thank you once again for coming on this For Good podcast. Once again, also, thank you for blessing the world with such great music. But not just music. The music is just the beginning part of you. The advocacy, the author, the person that's vulnerable, the person that's speaking up, the person that said, let me be that shining light in the church to show you that you can do both. You can be a little bit of swaggy, but you can also be faithful, and you can also walk that righteous path. So we appreciate you being that voice. We appreciate you being that face, that image, that leader that the world needs, that Christianity needs, in my opinion. So thank you again, Lecrae. And I know Vanessa wants to add to that bouquet.
- [54:58]
Vanessa Simmons
Yes. I want to say thank you so much, first of all, for coming on and talking to us today. I know that our listeners are going to take so much from this conversation. I'm taking so much from this conversation. You're such an incredible light. Congratulations on all of your amazing accomplishments and for using your platform in such an impactful way. You could just feel your energy through the screen right now and just so thankful and feel privileged to have had this conversation. And I know I'll listen. Listeners are gonna love everything that they hear, so thank you.
- [55:31]
Lecrae
Y' all want me up here crying, huh? That's what y' all looking for.
- [55:36]
JoJo Simmons
Love, man, you.
- [55:37]
Lecrae
You.
- [55:37]
JoJo Simmons
You really dropped a lot of Gems here. And I know it's not needed. But before we do get you out of here, please let everybody know where to find you. And if you have anything coming up or your podcast that you want to promote. Although everybody probably knows where to find Lecrae, but let them know, hey, man,
- [55:50]
Lecrae
you can find me everywhere. You know, follow me. I will take you somewhere. You. You dig what I'm saying? Just L, E, C, R, A, E. If you don't know how to spell it, lock into the deep end podcast. You know what I'm saying? And stay tuned for the Simmons kids on there. You dig what I'm saying?
- [56:05]
Vanessa Simmons
Yeah, we're coming.
- [56:06]
JoJo Simmons
Yeah. Listen, after this conversation, I'm like, I'm excited to hear what we gonna talk about on your podcast. Cause I'm vulnerable. I like being vulnerable. I think I've helped Vanessa open up her vulnerability a little bit. With me.
- [56:18]
Vanessa Simmons
It's coming out. It's not a process. But going on this podcast, I lead everything here.
- [56:23]
JoJo Simmons
Take it all. I don't care. I'm in a space where even if somebody did judge me, it would not bother me. I'm so connected to the higher power. I'm so connected to God. I'm so connected to me that, like, okay, cool. Whatever I said, I told you I cried at seven years old over this, and you're gonna judge me for it. So did you. You just don't want to say it like, your friend. That was the big dude that came to you was like, this music does. There's so many people out there that are like that, and they act like they big and bad and tough. But I guarantee you, us being vulnerable is helping them go in their little stuff, secret space and say, I needed that. I kind of want to do that, too.
- [56:55]
Lecrae
You know what I mean?
- [56:56]
Vanessa Simmons
I'm a meditate, do some breathing exercises.
- [57:00]
Lecrae
Listen. I call it 8 mile yourself. You've seen the movie 8 mile. If you cut your legs off, they can't. They ain't got nothing to cut. You know, that's a fact.
- [57:07]
JoJo Simmons
That's a huge fact, my brother. Well, once again, we want to thank Lecrae for coming on here. Our four gooders. Make sure you guys hit that subscription button. Make sure you hit that, like, button. Drop some comments in the comment section. Let us know what you thought about this conversation. Obviously, I loved it. Vanessa loved it. Lecrae seemed like he loved it. So let us know if you was feeling this conversation. If you want to continue to see conversations like this in the future, make sure you guys Tap into the For Good podcast once again, guys. It's your guy, JoJo Simmons.
- [57:32]
Vanessa Simmons
I'm Vanessa Simmons.
- [57:33]
JoJo Simmons
We got Lecrae. And this is the For Good podcast, where we focus on the good, never the bad, and we're measured by what we do, not what we have. Till next time, guys. We'll see you guys. Peace.
- [57:49]
ZipRecruiter Announcer
Finding great candidates to hire can be like, well, trying to find a needle in a haystack. Sure, you can post your job to some job board, but then all you can do is hope the right person comes along. Which is why you should try ZipRecruiter for free at ZipRecruiter.com zip. ZipRecruiter doesn't depend on candidates finding you. It finds them for you. Its powerful technology identifies people with the right experience. Experience. And actively invites them to apply to your job. You get qualified candidates fast. So while other companies might deliver a lot of hay, ZipRecruiter finds you what you're looking for. The needle in the Haystack.
- [58:26]
Lecrae
See why 4 out of 5 employers who post a job on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day.
- [58:32]
Lowe's Announcer
ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire.
- [58:35]
Lecrae
And right now, you can try ZipRecruiter for free. That's right, free at ZipRecruiter. Com. Zip. That's ZipRecruiter. Com.
- [58:44]
Lowe's Announcer
Zip.
- [58:45]
Lecrae
ZipRecruiter. Com. ZIP.