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Therapy Won't Fix You & That's the Point: Kati Morton on Trauma, Healing & Mental Health
00:44:09
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- [00:00]
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JoJo Simmons
That's.
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Commercial Announcer
That's 1-800-FLowers. Com podcast.
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Katie Morton
I think people still think therapy is going to fix them. Like, you go and they tell you what to do and you're like, presto. I mean, that'd be awesome. If I could do that would. But unfortunately, that's just not the way it works. A therapist. I've always seen my role less as a fixer, more as a guide. Like, I'm going to ask questions to get you to realize what you need to do because you have all the answers. Like, I can't tell you. I don't know. Your whole life, I only know what you tell me. And sometimes we forget to even share all the important information or we're too scared to. And so it's not a therapist's job to fix you or to tell you what to do, but it is our job to support and guide you along the way as you figure that part out.
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JoJo Simmons
No, this is great. It makes a lot of sense because I had a therapist on here before. I had a guest that spoke about little trauma throughout the day that we also have. Like, everybody expects a trauma to be something big. Like you were abused or you were in war, you're in a car accident. But they're like, a trauma could happen over a disagreement with a boss or your. Your partner. Because now you don't. Your words didn't feel validated. Your partner may not have validated your words and kind of brushed you off. And now that's a small mini trauma that you're dealing with because now you reacted in a way that is very traumatizing. Right? So I love how you place that. And I definitely, totally get it because I heard it before that, like, traumas don't always have to be World War II type traumas. Right. They can be small traumas that build up to the biggest traumas. Right? So I love how you put that. What's good, everybody? It's your guy, JoJo Simmons.
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Vanessa Simmons
And it's Vanessa Simmons.
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JoJo Simmons
And welcome back to the For Good podcast where we focus on the good, never the bad. And we're measured by what we do, not what we have.
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Vanessa Simmons
Yes. And today's conversation is one that touches us all, because whether we talk about it or not, mental health impacts how we show up every day in our lives.
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JoJo Simmons
And in a world where social media pressure, trauma, expectations and comparison are constant, understanding our mental and emotional well being has never been more important. We're joined by Katie Morton, a licensed marriage and family therapist, mental health educator, and author who has become one of the most influential voices in digital mental health. With over 1 million subscribers on YouTube, she's helped millions better understand anxiety, trauma, depression, relationships, and emotional health. She's also the author of are you okay? A guide to caring for your mental health. And traumatize, identify, understand and cope with PTSD and emotional stress. Helping people put language to experiences they may have struggled to understand.
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Vanessa Simmons
And today, we're diving into stigma, trauma, strength, and healing and what it really means to prioritize your mental health in a world that doesn't always make space for it. And stick around to the end of the episode because we're giving away 25 copies of Katie's newest book, and you're not going to want to miss that. So you're going to want to enter. Welcome to the for Good podcast.
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JoJo Simmons
What's up, everybody? Thank you, Katie, for coming on the for Good podcast. We appreciate you coming on.
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Katie Morton
Yeah, thanks for having me. Excited to be here.
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JoJo Simmons
Yeah, we're excited.
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Vanessa Simmons
Very excited to get into this conversation.
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JoJo Simmons
So let's, you know, let's jump right into it. Looks like we're all pretty up and awake. I know it's pretty early for all of us. So we're all up and awake and let's jump into it. So you've built a massive platform talking about mental health in a way that's relatable and real. What was the moment you realized education, not just therapy, needed to be a part of how we support people?
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Katie Morton
I think growing up, I lived really rurally. I grew up in a really small town, and I started therapy when I was around 15. I was just going through a tough time. I thought my parents were gonna get divorced. They didn't, but it was all my friends, parents were getting divorced. I was super stressed out and there was only one therapist in my town. And I think that as I got older and I moved to la, right, so big city, I realized how underserved, like a huge swath of people are, how they don't have access to maybe somebody who would work for them because that one therapist was a Christian therapist. And if you weren't Christian, like, then what? Right, right. And so I realized that being a therapist allowed me to see maybe 40 people a week. Maybe that's like a really, really full caseload. But the Internet as it came to be. It sounds kind of silly to say it that way, but YouTube was the earliest. We didn't have TikTok. We didn't have Instagram back then when I started in 2011. And I really quickly realized that, like, it shouldn't be held up. The information that I have shouldn't be behind a paywall. It shouldn't be just because you live in a city and you have access to it. I really, I think by just trying to talk to people, realized how. How underserved our world is when it comes to mental health, specifically.
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JoJo Simmons
Yeah, I love that. I love how you said, like, basically when the Internet kind of boomed or I guess when the trending. The trending stuff kind of became something, you learned how to use it and get it out worldwide and not just keep it within your community and your city. Because that's the most important thing for me for mental health is, you know, yes, there's a lot of. There are resources out there in little pockets of cities, in little pockets of states, but it's a worldwide problem. It's a. It's a global problem. And then if we can reach people from any way possible, which is the Internet now, you know, I totally, wholeheartedly support anybody using the Internet for good. Like we say, the for good podcast. I, you know, I encourage people to use their Internet platform for good more than they use it for clout. And that's just my personal opinion about it. So I love that that's how you kind of looked at the Internet and seen, hey, I can use this to really push this narrative.
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Vanessa Simmons
Yeah. And at such an early stage in the Internet being, you know, new with social media. So that's really amazing. And we really, you know, want to give you your flowers here. And, you know, talking about social media, it can connect us, but it can also heighten anxiety and comparison. So how do you balance using those platforms for healing without feeding unhealthy patterns?
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JoJo Simmons
Good question.
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Katie Morton
That's a good question. And it's tricky. It's a thin line. I have to be honest, because there, I do my best to put good information out there, but unfortunately, even if it's educational, sometimes it can cause someone to be like, oh, crap, like, that's what I'm dealing. Like, oh, you know, and you can have that moment of realization. You're like, oh, my God, you know, what am I doing? And also, you know, there's a lot of mental, Mental health using air quotes information out there that's, like, not necessarily supportive. I think for me, I always tell my audience to pay attention to how they feel before and after they interact with the Internet in general, like social media. If you feel good, if you feel, like, refreshed or like, I have new information, awesome, then that's good. But if you feel worse, then I always encourage people to check who they're following. And this isn't because they're doing anything wrong. It's not like pointing a finger at somebody else and being like, I can't believe you put that stuff out there. It's being, you know, looking at yourself and being like, what am I allowing myself to digest? You know, there's always, like, a new diet when it comes to food. But what about what we digest with our eyes, you know, and with our mind? Like, when we're listening, when we're watching, like, what is it that I'm allowing in? And I always try to tell my audience and myself, trust me, I'm not any better at all. I doom scroll in the middle of the night. I shouldn't, but I do. And so I always tell them just to be aware, you know, and then I unfollow people or mute people easily. Like, why am I. Why am I having that in my life if it's not making me feel better, if I'm not in a place where I can interact and feel good about it? You know, again, no judgment on other people. This is more about me and, like, what am I able to handle today or tomorrow?
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JoJo Simmons
I love how you said you're, you know, you're no better, you're not perfect. Right. And I think a lot of people, Most of, most of our research comes from experience. Most of our research comes from curiosity. Right. I think curiosity is the biggest connector to research. And I think that, you know, I like how you said, you're no better. Like, you doom scroll. You do things, but ultimately you're aware and you're trying to make everybody else aware that, okay, yeah, it isn't good. But, you know, we do need to be aware of what's good for us, what's bad for us. So I love how, you know, you basically humanized yourself and saying, hey, I. I may be the person with a lot of answers you're looking for, but I'm also, you know, in the same shoes as you at times. So that's very important for People to hear that sometimes the teacher still needs to be taught, even if it's by themselves. You know what I mean? I love that 100%.
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Katie Morton
Yeah.
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JoJo Simmons
Yeah. What's one major misconception people still have about what therapy actually is?
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Katie Morton
I think people still think therapy is going to fix them. Like, you go and they tell you what to do, and you're like, presto. I mean, that'd be awesome. If I could do that, would. But unfortunately, that's just not the way it works. A therapist. I've always seen my role less as a fixer, more as a guide. Like, I'm going to ask questions to get you to realize what you need to do because you have all the answers. Like, I can't tell you I don't know. Your whole life, I only know what you tell me. And sometimes we forget to even share all the important information or we're too scared to. And so it's not a therapist's job to fix you or to tell you what to do, but it is our job to support and guide you along the way as you figure that part out.
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JoJo Simmons
Yeah, I totally agree. And I don't know if Vanessa wants to add to that, but what I will say was having a conversation with somebody the other day, and, you know, they're in therapy. Just like, you know, a lot of people I know in therapy, and they're healing. And, you know, sometimes we get into arguments and people are like, well, if you're in therapy, then why. You don't. Why aren't you healed yet? Right? And it's not. You're not supposed to. You're not. It's not a fixable. Healed for life. I'm healed for life. It's a constant healing. Right. When you're in therapy, you're constantly healing. It's not a fixable thing. It's not. I'm. Now I'm healed and I'm better, and I'm a better person because I went to therapy. It's a constant learning of yourself and a constant healing for yourself. And that's what I think. You're right. A lot of people do need to understand that just because you go to therapy doesn't mean you just took Tylenol and you're no longer sick. Right. You still got a little bit of a cough in his knees every now and then. Exactly.
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Vanessa Simmons
It's like working out. You gotta work out your body to see the results. You gotta work out your mind, and you gotta work on the healing constantly and through every phase of your life to really see the difference and more importantly, you know, feel the difference.
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JoJo Simmons
Yeah, that's a fact.
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Katie Morton
Agreed. It's like you wouldn't go to the gym for, you know, a month and then expect the results to continue sometimes. Yeah. And therapy does teach you tools that you can reuse.
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Vanessa Simmons
Right.
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Katie Morton
You might know how to work out a little bit, better, be more effective, but it. You still have to keep doing it.
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JoJo Simmons
You gotta keep doing the work. Yeah, yeah.
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Vanessa Simmons
That's such a good point to bring up because I do feel like sometimes people feel like therapy is a one stop shop and it'll just magically fix everything, but it's. It's a. It's the work that you put in that really makes the difference.
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Katie Morton
And it's really the hours in between sessions too. I think a lot of people think, like, you go to therapy, your therapist tells you you automatically feel better and things start going your way. I mean, it could happen that way, but then it's really you practicing it in life, like out there every day, trying not to get reactive with your s. Or say that thing to your mom that usually sets her off or your dad, you know, you have to make those choices. So it's like you just like the gym analogy. That's why I love that kind of reference, is like, I have to keep showing up. I have to keep lifting those weights, trying to make myself better. And that's how that muscle will get formed. That's how my relationships will change and grow, you know, et cetera.
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JoJo Simmons
I love it.
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Vanessa Simmons
That is good. So in your book traumatized, that has helped people understand PTSD and emotional stress. What's one thing you wish everyone understood about trauma before trying. Trying to fix it.
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JoJo Simmons
Ooh.
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Katie Morton
Before trying to fix it. Because I was gonna say, I think people, like, never assume they've been traumatized. We put it on this pedestal. It's this big thing, and I'm like, we lived through Covid. We were all traumatized. I hate to say it, but that's the truth. That was scary. We didn't know. You have to just remember. We try to block it out. Understandably so. But before trying to fix it, I think, I guess when it comes to before you think you're going to get back, like, you're going to. I'm going to. I can fix this. I can get myself out. I want people to understand that being traumatized isn't a failing of self. It's an overwhelm of your system. And sometimes I think that reframe helps us better understand what happened, why we're responding the way we're responding. And then without even realizing it, has also helped us figure out how to, like, not undo it, but empower ourselves to overcome it. Because we often think, again, that trauma is like this big thing. Like, oh, I had to go to war. I had to be in this accident. I had to be abused for many years, when, for a lot of us, it's kind of, in my book, traumatized. One of my good friends, Dr. Alexa Altman, she puts together this beautiful analogy of waves on an ocean. And, like, you're standing in the surf and sometimes it's a huge wave and it sweeps you out. That's a big T trauma. Like, I was abused, I was in an accident. Something happened. But she said, for a lot of us, it's the little T's. It's these little waves. And it, like, pulls the sand out from under your feet, you know, and you kind of spin, try to steady yourself. And then another one comes and another one. And this could be like, I moved a lot. My parents got divorced. I was bullied in school. I didn't do well at my first job. I got fired. I had. Didn't have enough money. You know, like, there's all these things that people don't necessarily consider traumas, but those are those little waves that slowly pull you out and your system got overwhelmed. You weren't able to cope with, like, the repeated number of little T traumas, if that makes sense.
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JoJo Simmons
No, this is great. It makes a lot of sense because I had a therapist on here before. I had a guest that spoke about little traumas throughout the day that we also have. Everybody expects a trauma to be something big, like you were abused or you were in war, you were in a car accident. But they're like, a trauma could happen over a disagreement with a boss or your partner. Because now your words didn't feel validated. Your partner may not have validated your words and kind of brushed you off. And now that's a small mini trauma that you're dealing with because now you reacted in a way that is very traumatizing. Right. So I love how you place that. And I definitely, totally get it because I heard it before that, like, traumas don't always have to be World War II type traumas. Right. They can be small traumas that build up to the biggest traumas. Right. So I love how you put that. That's great. This is great. Vanessa. I started absolutely.
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Vanessa Simmons
No, yeah. No, I think it's great because you don't think about trauma in that way you think about the big things, you don't think about the little things that add up and maybe put your system in overdrive. And now you're dealing with elevated levels of cortis and the nervous system that is dysregulated. So it's good to look at that, to be able to recognize that those can be considered trauma. So that, again, you're working on yourself daily with anything that comes up.
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JoJo Simmons
That was awesome.
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Vanessa Simmons
Yeah.
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JoJo Simmons
So for listeners that are listening right now who feel ashamed or hesitant about seeking help, what's a practical first step they can take today?
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Katie Morton
Ooh, a couple things.
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JoJo Simmons
If it's more than one, please.
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Katie Morton
Yeah, I was like a couple.
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JoJo Simmons
Because let me tell my subscriber before you answer, to pull out they pen, pull out they pad, pull out whatever need to pull to write it down, and also subscribe to the channel as. As she's about to give you all this great information. So there you go.
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Katie Morton
Thanks, Ginger. So the first step, to be honest, is to start noticing what symptoms are bugging you. Is it that I'm. I feel like I'm not communicating well with my partner, or I don't feel like they hear me, or I feel angry all the time, or I don't sleep well? Like, just start noticing because that information and then I'll move into kind of my second piece, because I feel like these kind of are two sides of the same coin, is once we have that, we can. I mean, you can put it into Google and be like, well, that sounds like anxiety, or who knows what it'll say, right? But we want to have those things because then what I want you to do is I want you to look up therapists in your area or that take your insurance, whatever. There's also free clinics. I worked at one for many years. I think the most people paid was like, 20 bucks to see me. So look around. In LA, it's called the center for Individual and Family Counseling.
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JoJo Simmons
You're not. They got some stuff.
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Vanessa Simmons
Oh, yeah, I'm in la.
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JoJo Simmons
Yeah, Stuff in la.
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Katie Morton
I love. I love the North Hollywood clinic. So you have all your symptoms. Then I want you to make some calls and set up. They're kind of almost every therapist. I'd say 99.9% of them offer free consultations. You have to ask for them. So use that word. Call and say, I'm looking for someone to help me with, let's say, anxiety or insomnia or whatever. Our little list is communication skills. And I really like a free consultation. Do you offer one now? They'll differ between 15 minutes. Some give you a whole hour. But please set that up, because that gives you a chance to get to know them. Do I. Do I like this person? Do I feel like they see me? It also could even be like, I moved to. From LA. I lived in LA for 20 years. I moved from LA to Austin. And I am not a Southern person. I'm not from the South. So I, like, didn't want my therapist to be like, how do y'? All? Like, that's just not. It's just gonna. You know, it just doesn't resonate with me. I'm like, we're different people, you know? And so I wanted to find someone that felt. I went through five of them before I found my. My guy.
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JoJo Simmons
And that's okay.
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Katie Morton
Yeah, yeah. Take your time. And so those are really things I feel like people should know about and should do before it's almost even before you step in the office. Like, how do you find the right person that sets you up for success?
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JoJo Simmons
I love that. You know, finding the right therapist is important, and it doesn't mean that the therapist you didn't choose are the wrong therapists. They're just not the right therapist for you. You know, I think it's important to find a relatable therapist that understands your culture, understands your upbringing, understands your lifestyle, understands who you are, whether male or female. But I've heard that a lot, especially in our community, with the black community, right? They. A lot of our community, feel like they can't find a relatable therapist because sometimes they talk in slang or they have a certain way that they have, you know, their culture is. And they feel like they're not understood. But there are a lot of resources and organizations out there that offer that. I'm just, you know, letting my black listeners know that, you know, there are, you know, a lot of people that offer black therapists that do understand. So. But I love how you brought that up, that you went through five different therapists. You kind of was like, you didn't want one that said, howdy, y'.
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Katie Morton
All.
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JoJo Simmons
And that's okay, right? As much as funny. It is. That's okay. You wanted somebody to understand your language. You wanted somebody that can talk to you, how you understand, how you can digest it, right? And that's okay. To go through more than one therapist, I want people to know, just because you have one doesn't mean you have to stick to that one. You know, it's okay. It's like a pair of shoes. It's like, anything. It's like a good outfit. You want to have the best outfit to look your best, and that means you want to have the best therapist to feel your best. And so I love how you brought up that. Like, it's okay to go through a few until you get to the one you really, you know, really feel like you resonate with.
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Vanessa Simmons
Absolutely. It's like dating, I guess. You know, you gotta find the right one that resonates, that makes you feel good.
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JoJo Simmons
I promise you. I shouldn't have referred to therapists as sneakers. But you're right. It's like dating. You're right.
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Katie Morton
It goes both sneakers. Dating is the same. And I always tell people it's not a time to be politically correct. Like, I want to see a guy, I want to see a female. Like, there's no judgment there. Even if you're like, hey, this person kind of looks like me, but they don't act like me. Like, I still don't get it. Like, I know people can be like, well, you should just see whoever you have to feel. It's like dating. Like, to Vanessa's point, I always. People always ask, like, how do you know if they're the right fit? And I'm like, you feel like. It's like when you meet somebody new and you're like, I like them.
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JoJo Simmons
Yeah.
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Katie Morton
I don't really know why, but, like, ah, I just like them. You should feel that it's uncomfortable. Therapy's weird, right? You go and, like, spill your guts to a stranger. But you should feel like, I don't know what it is, but I just like them. You know, I just. I wouldn't.
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JoJo Simmons
I love how you said, this doesn't have to be a politically correct, like, answer. Like, when it comes to therapy, it should never be politically correct. It should be a feeling. Like you said, it should feel like, I like them. Whether no matter the race, the gender, you walk in that room and you feel connected. It's like, oh, I really like this person. And, you know, that helps you be more vulnerable in times like those when you really do trust the therapist. So I love this conversation. This is great. This is great.
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Vanessa Simmons
Absolutely. So mental health intersects with culture, faith, and identity. How do we hold space for all of that without minimizing the psychological work that needs to happen?
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Katie Morton
I think it's. Again, it's all about. It's funny, this came off of finding the right therapist. I think it's finding that right fit, because especially in the spirituality piece and culture piece, that can depend. Obviously, it's going to be you bringing it to the table. Like, hey, these are things that I'm struggling with, or these are things I'm considering. But when you have the right fit of a therapist, they can support you in that. In that space. For example, a member of my community had just shared that she was her therapist. She. Her therapist got pregnant and left for a while, and she got placed with someone else, and they weren't as religious as the other one was. She missed that supportive piece. She was like, I didn't realize, because religion's a big part of her family. It's a big part of her culture. It's a big part of who she is. And she was like, I just felt more understanding and support from the other one because then the other one's coming back from maternity leave. And she was asking me, like, should I go back? And like any good therapist, I'm not going to tell her, but I'm going to ask some questions to figure out what. What was best. And that was when I realized that, you know, that spirituality piece, that culture piece, was supported more with that other therapist. And so for anybody out there who's feeling like, well, do I have to choose between. You don't have to. It's just finding that right fit of someone who understands your culture can support you in that gets the lingo. Like, one of my good friends, Abba, sees Indian Americans that are like second generation, you know, first generation over, because that's her. So she understands, like, how your parents usually are and what the culture is. And that's become a lot of her practice. And so find that person that fits what you're working on so that they can support you in the best way. And it's not. There's nothing wrong with searching out a Christian therapist or, you know, I want someone who's Baptist specifically. You know, a lot of therapists who offer that will put it in their profiles on Psychology Today or on their website, you know, and that's why that free consultation again, is really beneficial.
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JoJo Simmons
Yeah, I really love that because I had a guest on the other day and I asked them, you know, because some people feel like they have to choose between therapy and God therapy in the church. Right. And it's all intersected together. She went and broke down some scriptures. She was like, well, mental health and therapy has been in the Bible from day one. Right? It's. It's been in the Bible. They, you know, they were having anxiety attacks, they were having panic attacks. You know, they were. All of this was already happening, you know, and she was like, you don't have to choose. But I love how you say, like, if you are religious and you do want to seek out a therapist that is religious like you, you know, it's nothing wrong with that. It's. It's just all relatable, and it helps you really feel like yourself still while you're trying to heal. So I really love how you broke that down. Now, what makes practical mental wellness different from just knowing the theory behind it?
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Katie Morton
Knowing and doing are two totally different things. Right. Like I even said earlier, I'm a therapist. I know better. I don't always do better. Right. Like, I know how to communicate, but sometimes my buttons are pushed. And then you get a whole different type of Katie, because I'm frustrated and I need to. You know, it's like, I can still not be my best self. Like all of us. I can have good days and bad days. And so knowing the theories and reading about it is part of the puzzle. I guess it can help you see the full picture. However, the. The tangible tools in the moment is what you're going to need most, and that's actually going to help you change behavior. Because I. I'm an intellectualizer. Like, I love to know about something and understand it, but like I said, that doesn't always help me in the moment if I don't know how to apply it.
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JoJo Simmons
Love it. Great, great answer. Great answer.
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Vanessa Simmons
So what if someone is feeling overwhelmed? Overwhelmed by their expectations, you know, balancing family, relationships, career, but it just feels like they can't talk to anybody about it. What. What would you say to them? How do you go about that?
- [24:26]
Katie Morton
I mean, there's a couple of ways we can approach it. The first, this. And this is just because this is me, that I'm. I. I'm totally like, this is my transference. This is me and my experience that if somebody says they're really overwhelmed with life, my first question to my patients and to myself is always like, are you taking on more than you actually have to? Because the answer for me is usually yes. Like, I'm stepping up and being like, I'll do this. Or I'm not even asking for help from my husband or my friends or my colleagues. I'm not asking for them to support me. So. Because the first thing I would say is, like, is there anything we can offload? Like, are there things you don't have to do? And people will be like, no, no, I have to do it all. Really, though, take some time, think about it. Like, what are the things we can Just kind of put off or you don't have to be the one that's running that thing, you know, I know that sounds hard, especially for mothers and fathers and people who have like very active lives and a lot's being asked for them. I, maybe I volunteer at church. I work full time job. I also have three kids. I, you know, we have all this stuff going. I have two dogs. You could have a full bunch of things going on, but there are ways that we can ask for more support. And so that's my go to is always like, we need community. Ask someone to help you. It's okay. If you have someone who's helping you at work on a project, ask them to take on one more task from it at home. Maybe your oldest can help you. You could. This can be a great time. Teach them how to do the laundry. This is how we put this in. This how we sort, you know, whatever. Doing that is always like the first piece and then the second is. And this is getting a little deeper because this is something that I've been working on myself in my own therapy for the past few years is like, how do we untangle? Because. And again, I'm making assumptions. But how do we untangle your identity from what you do so that you can sometimes just be. Because I have a tough time with that. Because I, I've always thought that like my worth is somehow tied up in my productivity. Like if I earn for people, if I do more and I go the extra mile, then I'm like, oh, now, now if you love me, then it feels like I can accept it, I've earned it. And that's such a toxic for me, it's super toxic way of being that, like I have to earn love that I'm not enough just being. I feel like I always have to overextend. I always have to be the one that says, yes, I'll pick you up from the airport, I'll help you move, I'll. But like, I don't really need to. And so a lot of my therapy work has been trying to figure out where that comes from. Spoilers. It's my childhood. And then two is like, how do I untangle that? What would it mean? And this is like, then journaling homework for me is like, what would it look like if I did say no? What am I afraid that that says about me? And like, how do we start that conversation with ourselves so we can untangle that, that piece of like earning our worth?
- [27:01]
JoJo Simmons
This is why this podcast you just brought up exactly what Dr. J. Barnett brought up a few episodes back, that. That's the same thing he dealt with all his life, was people pleasing, basically, and thinking that what he did was. Was connected to who he actually is. Right? And he dealt with that for a really long time. And he's healing, right? He's doing really well at healing. He's understanding that that isn't who he is. That isn't the way to be loved. It's just off his productivity. But one advice I would give you that I learned in another episode was, you know, stop living in a state of what if? And live in a state of what is. And basically you probably saying, well, what if I don't do this for somebody? Will they love me? What if I don't succeed with this? Will they still appreciate me? What if I. And start living in this is what it is. This is what I can do for. For myself. This is what I can do for the other person and be happy with that because, you know, your intention was pure and you did the best you did. You could do beyond your, you know, beyond your physical, you know, you know, beyond what you can do. You've done what you do, you know, so, you know, don't. Don't live in what if. Live in what is. You know what I mean? So happy to hear that. That, that you still, you know, you're telling us you're being vulnerable. You're telling us you're still healing, you're still on a journey, you're still trying to figure out what. What it all is. And spoiler alert, it's from all of our childhood. You know, we all traumas come from our childhood. So, so don't, you know, don't feel like you don't relate here. But I just love to hear that, like, we have people on this podcast that say the same thing, and I'm able to hear from other therapists kind of. I wouldn't say answers, but little tidbits that help us, you know, throughout the day. So thank you for sharing that, for sure. What structural or cultural shifts do you think would make real mental health access more possible for underserved communities?
- [28:50]
Katie Morton
I think we have to change the way we talk about it. This is, like, huge, though. I. I'd have to think back to, like, what would be the first step. But I find in a lot of cultures, even in my family growing up, because we're very rural, very country folk, kind of like, no judgment on my family, love them very much. But there can be conversations about, like, why would I pay Somebody to listen to me or, like, just go to church and pray about it. Like, those are things that I heard growing up or like, you know, the. There's a certain conversation sometimes that we have over and over again, culturally, specifically, I think that makes it feel unacceptable to get help, and that can cause us to put it off and potentially be in pain longer or maybe attempt to take our own life because we don't really know what else to do with how we feel. And so I think in general, in churches, in rural communities, in other cultures, instead of seeing a therapist as someone who's going to, I don't know, invade the family or try to make things worse, see it as an actual assistance. Like, it's, you know, it's another tool in your toolbox. It's something that can help grow the relationships and grow the community. I believe. I think a lot of, you know, issues that we have with our parents, our grandparents, our families, when we get into fights and disagreements, a lot of that could have been maybe, you know, sidestepped or worked out more quickly if they had communication skills that could have been taught in therapy. And so I think it's just changing the way that we even. And not that I'm an elder, but, like, our elders have to change the way that they talk about it and. And how we raise our children, how we talk about it with our children.
- [30:24]
JoJo Simmons
It's very generational. You're right. It comes from. It comes from before us, and it comes from how we, you know, treat the ones after us. It's. It's kind of the. The generational curse needs to be broken. So I love. That's basically what you said. And I love. I love it. I love it. I love it.
- [30:37]
Vanessa Simmons
Absolutely. You're sharing so many amazing gems and, you know, so many things I'll take from this conversation have been amazing. But I have to you, how do you personally protect your own mental health, being somebody that so many people rely on?
- [30:53]
Katie Morton
I'm not that good at it. I'll tell you what I do do. I do things. But it's hard, okay? Because the thing about social media especially is that people will take and take and take. It's like an insatiable appetite for content or, you know, I cannot recommend enough to anybody out there who's feeling really burnt and just doesn't know, like, might feel lost. I've. The artist's way. Have you guys heard of it?
- [31:16]
Vanessa Simmons
Yes. That's one of my favorite for forever. I'm an actor. Yes.
- [31:21]
Katie Morton
Oh, yes. Yes. Oh, yes.
- [31:23]
Vanessa Simmons
But life Changing?
- [31:25]
Katie Morton
Yeah, it's life changing. And it's a commitment. I encourage everybody to do it with a partner. Like I did it with my girlfriend. Because you have to hold each other accountable. Because it's a lot. It's beautiful. It's a 12 week kind of workbook that you go through, you can get on Amazon. It's not that expensive. Get yourself a journal, you're going to burn through them. I really think that, that, that was like a reset for me and I return to it and go through different homework assignments because each week there's like some homework it does. It's not big homework, but it's, it's homework that's like impactful. And the Artist way was like a game changer for me, especially when I was feeling really depleted. And like, what am I? You know, I feel like everybody thinks this from some time to time. You're like, what am I doing? I just felt like so lost and like, is this, Am I doing the most that I can do? And like again, tying my identity to my productivity. But the Artist way was incredibly helpful for me. I also, I have to spend time with like real friends. And I don't say that to like throw any shade to other people in my life, but like people who know me, like, we're not going to talk about the weather. We're not going to chitty chat about like, oh, how was that game the other night? It's going to be like real conversation and I have to make time for that. And that might be like a girls weekend. That might be just grabbing, you know, some appetizers with a friend. I really have to make time for real relationships. And then there's two more because I have to do a lot of different things. Depends on what I can do. I get outside. I love outdoor activity. I was like I said, I was raised really rurally. So like we didn't, we didn't have cable television. My parents, we didn't have a ton of money and they didn't really believe in it. So they're like, get outside. And maybe that's why. But like being outside is really helpful, whether that's like just going for a walk. I used to live in Santa Monica. I would just walk just, just aimlessly really. And it was good for me. Like the movement is really helpful. I go snowboarding, mountain biking, stuff like that. And then the last thing and the thing that I do still to this day, almost every day is I journal. And it's not journaling like dear Diary, like I did that when I was little, and those are hilarious. But this is more like, I start off by telling, like, telling my journal what I'm annoyed about. Like, I venture. I give myself a couple. Just a few sentences. What am I, like, pissed off about what's happening? So I'll vent. And then I'm like, okay, it's enough of that. What are you grateful for? I'm grateful for, like, right now. Our weather in Austin can be crazy. It's nice. It's. It's, like, moderate. It's so nice. I have a roof over my head. I'm going to go get groceries today, and I can afford to get them. Oh, praise be, like, amazing. So I tell myself the things I'm grateful for. And then this last piece has been a life changer for me, is then I tell myself what I'm looking forward to because I'm trusting that God or the universe or whoever you believe in is going to show up for me. And so I will write, Like, I'm so looking forward to taking a girls trip this year, and it's going to be so much fun. Maybe we'll go. Maybe we'll go to Ojai. I've never been. That would be amazing. I'm looking forward to getting that TED Talk that I want, because I'm putting that out into the universe that I'm going to get that I'm looking forward to, you know, whatever it is. Insert thing you could be. I'm looking forward to seeing my grandbabies. I'm looking forward to. To taking a vacation. I'm looking forward to, you know, whatever. What are you looking forward to? And I swear, doing that repeatedly day after day has made it so that when bad things happen to me, I don't get caught up in the, like, oh, no, no. I'm like, nope. That's just. That was. This is the way that I'm supposed to go to get me to this thing that I'm looking forward to. Like, thank you for this detour. This must be the right path. I must have been on the wrong path. And it's really just. I don't know, it's like, changed my. My. The way my brain functions, the way I think about my life and my future.
- [35:05]
Vanessa Simmons
Yeah. I'm so happy you brought up the Artist way because the morning pages part of it has brought me through so many times to just. In the morning, journal, just five minutes, just brain dump, get it all out so you could start your day fresh. I'm so happy you brought up the artist way because that's literally something I've been doing for years. And it is something that really helps your. That so much. Such a good tool. Yeah.
- [35:31]
Katie Morton
Yes. And it gets you out of the, like, having to have answers or figure it out. And it puts you in the stage of, like. Because when we get older, for some reason, it's almost like we think we can't be a work in progress. We can't be, like, going back to school for stuff. It's like, we feel like we should have it figured out. And the artist way puts you back in that, like, student phase where you're like, I don't know. I'm gonna see. And I think that curiosity is just so healing. It's like, I have to have it all figured out. I know I'm an adult. I don't feel like an adult sometimes. And, like, I just want to. I just want to be curious. And it really. It really does. It also challenged me with the. They had those. The dates you take yourself on.
- [36:09]
Vanessa Simmons
Yeah, you might. The me dates were. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [36:12]
Katie Morton
I had a really hard time with that, obviously. But it was so. It was so telling. Again, healing for me to realize that, like, I can't take my. Like, I can't take myself out, like, just by myself. I, like, feel guilty. That's interesting. You know, why do you feel guilty? Taking yourself out to do something you want to do just because you want to do it, you know? It was really interesting.
- [36:34]
JoJo Simmons
Yeah. This is great. You know, and, you know, a lot of people we bring on here, they always talk about journaling, how important it is to journal. I love that you brought that up as well. But what you. What you really did, that was important for the subscribers and the listeners, the watchers, is you taught people how to journal. A lot of people here say, I just journal. I journal. They don't know. They don't know. Should they start off with their diary? Like, when they were 12, they don't know how to journal. I think that you. You broke it down. It's like, yo, you start off with the stuff you're upset with, and then you go right into what you're appreciative of, and then you go into what you're looking forward to. I think that's going to be a way that I start implementing, writing a journal, because, personally, I want to journal, but I sit there and I'm like, well, what do I start? What do I do? Do I just write words or, like, how do I narrow? I'm a writer, and I like to write. I like to read. I like to speak. So I'm very structured in my writing. So I'm like, does it need to be structured? Does it have to be an essay? I'm over here trying to put together a dissertation. I don't know what is going on. It's just how my mind works. So I really appreciate you breaking it down for me because I'm gonna really use it in that way. So thank you so much. And for the listeners that needed to know, I think it was important. Now, we always say we're measured by what we do on this podcast, not what we have. What does doing the good look like when it comes to mental health to you?
- [37:48]
Katie Morton
I mean, for me, doing the good is.
- [37:50]
Vanessa Simmons
Is.
- [37:50]
Katie Morton
Is definitely helping people feel seen, heard, and understood. I think that's my goal with what it's. I remember back in 2011 when we first started the channel because my husband has a film production background. That's how my channel became what it was. Because I don't know, I don't have those.
- [38:07]
JoJo Simmons
Teamwork and.
- [38:08]
Katie Morton
Yes, right. Teamwork makes the dreams work. And so he had said, like, hey, let's just put this out there. Like, I can do all the editing. And I'm like, okay, okay. So I. But at the beginning, I was really hesitant because I didn't know what the Internet was, You know, it wasn't what it was. And I said, well, I guess if we help one person, it would all be worth it. And so I think going back to that is, like, that's really the goal. You know, I want someone to know they're not alone. I want someone who can't find answers to find them. And that. That's really what it is for me, you know, day in and day out. Sometimes when I'm feeling really down or frustrated because, you know, just like anything, just because it starts off with good intentions doesn't mean that my channel is easy all the time or that that just means it just flows. And I don't worry if things aren't going well, but people depend on me, you know, for their. Their. Their support financially. And I have to, like, get myself together. And so sometimes I just remind myself, I'm like, hey, you know, let's get in those comments. I'm sure one person was helped. You know, they felt seen, they felt heard, they felt understood. And that makes it all worth it.
- [39:10]
JoJo Simmons
Love it. I love it. You're doing amazing things for the community. I love it.
- [39:16]
Vanessa Simmons
You are. So if there is one truth about healing, you want everyone listening to, hold on to after this conversation, what would that be?
- [39:25]
Katie Morton
Such good questions. You guys. Really challenging my brain. I guess there's a couple. The main one that I want people to know about healing is that it's not linear, and that's good. That's what it's supposed to be. Meaning you don't go A to B to C, you're done. That healing is continual for good reason. Right. And. And I only bring that up because I think sometimes what we're talking about, before even Jojo you mentioned it, we were talking about, like, going to therapy and I'm fixed and I'm done ta chew. I always tell people, even, like, when you graduate from therapy, there's still work to be done because you're. We're always getting better. Shouldn't today, Katie, want to be better than yesterday? Katie? That's what I hope for. And so when it comes to healing, instead of seeing it as, like, a goalpost, like, a thing I have to get to because that's. I'm competitive. I played a lot of sports as a kid, and so I can get real, like, I gotta finish. I'm gonna do the best. I'm gonna check that box. Right? And I can get in the mindset. But healing's not like that. And I think trying to reframe it as, like, no, healing is just trying to do better tomorrow for the. Katie, the day after, you know, like, I'm doing better today so that tomorrow I can do even better. And it's like, seeing it as this. This growth as a whole versus this ending that you have to get to. And I've even tried to tell myself, like, what a privilege it is that I can heal, you know, that I have that opportunity. You know, I think of, like, my family, like, a lot of, like, my grandparents, my great grandparents, like, didn't have a ton of money and, like, had dirt floors and had a bunch of children that needed tending to and were farmers. And, like, they didn't have the benefit of, like, therapy and, like, consum, considering what they were too busy surviving and, like, what a privilege that I can, like, do that. And so if anybody out there is feeling like I, you know, I feel like I'm in healing mode, and it's just kind of exhausting. Like, just think day to day, am I doing better today than I did yesterday? And then that's kind of how I frame it, because then I'm not working towards that end goal, that goal post, and I finally get there, and then I'm like. And now I do nothing. You Know, that's not really what it's about.
- [41:24]
JoJo Simmons
It's great. Day to day is definitely the motto. And you know, being better every day, you know, trying to be better every day. And I think, you know, you, you, you, you nailed that right there. You nailed that. So, you know, before we get out of here, I do have a special announcement for the for good community, my four gooders, our good people. We are giving away drum. Can I get a drum roll? They're gonna give me a drum roll. We are giving away 25 copies of Katie's new book. Why do I keep doing this? But you guys got to work for it. We're not going to just actually just give it to whoever, you know, like you got to work for it. So step one, subscribe to the four Good podcasts on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Make sure you screenshot it. You're going to need that screenshot, trust me. And then step two, go to the link in the show notes. Drop your email, upload that same screenshot that enters you into get your our brand. That enters you to get her brand new book. And you also could be part of the 4Good Newsletter. Step three is a bonus entry. Follow us on IG for good podcast. Tag two friends who need to hear this episode and share it to your stories. You guys got 10 days. Link in. Show notes. Let's go. If you guys are trying to get one of those books, like we said, we're giving away 25 books of Katie's new book. Excited? I'm gonna actually enter. I gotta, I'm gonna just go make a fake page. Subscribe comment. Boo. And the. I mean, I want a book. I want a book. I'm excited. You know, congratulations on that book as well, Katie. Before we get out of here, do you want to let people know where they can find you or anything else you got going on besides the book that I just said that we will be giving 25 copies away.
- [42:55]
Katie Morton
So exciting. Yeah. Thank you. People can find me on social media. It's just Katimorton. K A T I M O R T O N. That's TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, wherever you get your social media content. I also have a Patreon page where I live, stream and offer some more tools and workshops for people if they're looking for a little bit more support. Thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure.
- [43:13]
JoJo Simmons
Thank you for being on and like I always do and we always do, before you get out of here, I have to give you your four good flowers, they are not actual flowers. They're more words of encouragement. And I want to thank you for everything, not that you're doing for yourself, but what you're doing for the community around you, especially you. You know, using the Internet to get the word out, not just in your community, but to everybody, to everybody out here. To giving people the education, to giving people the knowledge, you know, for doing the research, for coming out here and telling people there, there are therapy. There is therapy for you. And it's okay to go to therapy and it's okay to find therapist for yourself and it's okay to have these conversations and it's okay to heal. And it's a privilege to heal is one of the things I learned from you today, that it is a true privilege to heal. So I want to give you your words of encouragement, AKA your four good flowers, for coming on here and sharing all your knowledge and information. Thank you so much. Kati Morton. You know, you got a friend in us now. So thanks, you know, thank you for the quick therapy session that Vanessa and I were able to able to receive on this one.
- [44:12]
Vanessa Simmons
Absolutely. A quick therapy session. Thank you so much for joining us today, Katie.
- [44:16]
Katie Morton
Yeah, thanks for having me.
- [44:17]
JoJo Simmons
Yeah. So this is the 4 Good podcast where we focus on the good, never the bad. And we're measured by what we do, not what we have. It's your guy, JoJo Simmons. It's Vanessa Simmons and Katie Morton. We are checking out. Till next time. Love you guys. Peace.
- [44:33]
Vanessa Simmons
Bye.