For Heaven’s Sake – “The Case for War”
Episode Date: March 5, 2026
Hosts: Donniel Hartman & Yossi Klein Halevi

Episode Overview

In this special episode, Donniel Hartman and Yossi Klein Halevi grapple with the moral and political debates surrounding the recent war with Iran, particularly from the perspective of Israelis and global Jewry. They dissect the deep sense of alienation Israelis feel in the face of widespread Western criticism, even as 93% of Israeli Jews view this as a “Milchemet Mitzvah” (obligatory war). Through honest dialogue, the hosts trace the roots of Western objection—highlighting themes of pacifism, the challenge of recognizing evil, the meaning of preemption in international law, and the difficulties American Jews face relating to Israeli policy amidst polarized leadership.

Key Discussion Points

1. The Israeli Moral Consensus & Alienation (00:10 – 07:54)

• Hartman: Opens by describing the overwhelming Israeli support for the war (93%) as self-evident and rooted in the Jewish tradition of Milchemet Mitzvah (obligatory war).
• Highlights a growing disconnect and alienation from global public opinion—even among Jews in the diaspora—and laments the lack of nuanced public debate.
• Sees widespread Western opposition as largely partisan and polemical, with reactions often divided along party lines and influenced by attitudes toward leaders like Trump and Netanyahu.
• Memorable Quote:

  “As a liberal myself, I feel liberalism speaks at its core to moral responsibilities, to fight for the good, for the right of self-defense. And so as Israelis, we don’t know what world we’re living in.” – Donniel Hartman (04:46)

2. Critique of Western Criticism: Pacifism & Relativizing Evil (07:54 – 18:27)

• Klein Halevi: Expresses frustration with trying to articulate what feels intuitively obvious to Israelis: that this is a just war against a clearly evil adversary.
• Draws on Kofi Annan’s famous line—“Can Israel be right and the whole world wrong?”—to frame Israelis’ sense of moral isolation.
• Critiques Western “unconscious pacifism,” asserting that many critics cannot make moral distinctions between flawed democratic leaders (Trump/Netanyahu) and theocratic regimes (Iran’s Ayatollahs).
• Notable Quote:

  “What I sense in much of the criticism in the west is an unconscious pacifism. Unconscious because if you were to ask critics of this war, are you pacifist? They would say, well, of course not... And yet listening to them... I’m not so sure... they wouldn’t have sided with Charles Lindbergh and said, America cannot go to war against Germany...” – Yossi Klein Halevi (08:21)

• Both hosts note that within Israel, even fierce political opponents of Netanyahu have united behind the war effort—contrasting this with continued polarization in the US.

3. International Law: Preemptive vs. Preventive War (18:37 – 24:54)

• Hartman: Attempts a non-technical explanation of preemptive and preventive warfare under international law.
  • Argues self-defense is universally accepted, but debates swirl around the criteria for imminence.
  • Many Western critics claim Israel's actions didn't meet the "imminent threat" threshold for preemption, categorizing it as a less legitimate “preventive” war.
• Hartman offers an “Israeli sensibility”: For Israelis, the war with Iran has been ongoing since 1979, making strict legal or chronological distinctions between “imminent” and “preventive” seem artificial.
• Memorable Explanation:

  “This is an ongoing war. ... The notion that the war started Saturday morning—it’s a lack of understanding of the fluidity of the danger that we’re dealing with.” – Donniel Hartman (22:57)

4. Recognizing Evil and the 'NIMBY' Mentality (24:54 – 27:37)

• Hartman: Suggests the Western public is unwilling to recognize or confront evil unless it is immediate and local (“not in my backyard”).
• Klein Halevi: Argues that pacifism has taken such a deep hold in Western societies that war of any kind has become “unthinkable”—and if that’s the case, let’s have an honest debate about pacifism.
• Quote:

  “I believe that this de facto pacifism has set in so deeply that war itself has become unthinkable. And look, maybe they’re right. Maybe we should all become pacifists. But at least say it explicitly, own it. If that’s your argument, make the case for pacifism.” – Yossi Klein Halevi (17:04)

5. War, Tragedy, and the Ethics of Blame (27:37 – 31:04)

• Klein Halevi: Criticizes the inability in Western discourse to distinguish between “tragic mistakes” in war and deliberate atrocities—using the example of the Iranian girls’ school bombing.
• Emphasizes that war, by its nature, is messy and tragic, and warns against holding combatants to an unattainable standard of “pure” action.
• Insightful Analogy:

  “The fundamental mistake ... is not to draw a clear distinction between war as tragedy and war as barbarism. War as tragedy is when terrible mistakes happen. War as barbarism is when it’s not a mistake, it’s a deliberate attack.” – Yossi Klein Halevi (28:32)

6. The Trump Factor: Motivation vs. Outcome (31:04 – 36:54)

• Hartman: Explains that for many American Jews, primary opposition comes from deep distrust and fear of Trump—not just Netanyahu or the war itself.
• Many cannot support a policy or action, no matter its merits, if they believe it is connected to a leader they view as authoritarian or self-interested.
• Argues that, according to Jewish tradition, a morally good act holds value regardless of the motives behind it:

  “Can we separate our explanation of Trump’s motives from our analysis of the benefits of his actions? ... Motive is not critical for fulfilling your duty. Just do the... It’s not an ends means discussion. It’s the end, not the motive.” – Donniel Hartman (33:00)

7. Israeli Political Consensus: It’s Not Just Netanyahu (36:54 – 39:08)

• Klein Halevi: Traces the broad Israeli consensus on Iran as an existential threat back to leaders across the political spectrum (including Yitzhak Rabin, not just Netanyahu).
• Notes that worry over Iran’s nuclear ambitions and aggressive actions has long united Israeli society—even those typically divided over other issues.
• Quote:

  “The bipartisan nature of this consensus over Iran has also helped create this moment and is being reflected in what we see in the polls.” – Yossi Klein Halevi (38:51)

8. A Message to Diaspora Jews: The Burden of Israel (39:08 – End)

• Hartman: Acknowledges the fatigue and frustration American Jews feel defending Israel, especially for those who no longer identify with its leadership or some policies.

• Appeals to the sense of shared fate and mutual responsibility:

  “There are moments where Jewish history demands that you show up. And if there could be a way for you to expand your heart ... when 93% of Israeli Jews are telling you this is a Milchemet Mitzvah ... we have to give it a try.” – Donniel Hartman (40:09)

• Klein Halevi: Concludes in agreement and gratitude:

  “You just said it, Daniil. Thank you.” (42:02)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• “[...] And so what we’re going to do today is we’re going to talk about how we Israelis feel about this war. [...] We’re just going to talk from our heart. We’re going to talk about what we feel. What you ought to feel, that’s up to you.” – Hartman (06:32)
• “If your hatred for your own leaders leads you to de facto be on the side of the Iranian regime, then I question the moral legitimacy of those who are questioning this war’s moral legitimacy.” – Klein Halevi (12:41)
• “I think America probably can take care of itself against Iran. We, on the other hand, might not be able to...” – Klein Halevi (30:15)
• “Separate your animosity and your interpretation of the motivations and ask, is there an ongoing conflict? Is there an evil that is here that I have to see?” – Hartman (35:09)
• “Sometimes we don’t get to pick. [...] there are moments where Jewish history demands that you show up.” – Hartman (40:09)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:10 — Main theme and context setting
• 04:46 — Framing the Israeli moral consensus
• 08:21 — Critique of Western “unconscious pacifism”
• 18:37 — International law, preemptive vs. preventive war debate
• 24:54 — The challenge of recognizing ongoing evil
• 27:37 — Distinguishing “war as tragedy” vs. “war as barbarism”
• 31:04 — The Trump factor & impact of leadership distrust
• 36:54 — Israeli consensus and the precedent set by Rabin
• 39:08 — Direct message to North American Jewry
• 42:02 — Closing remarks

Conclusion

Hartman and Klein Halevi deliver a candid, passionate exploration of what “the case for war” means for Israelis, for diaspora Jews, and for anyone wrestling with the moral quandaries of military conflict. They urge listeners to distinguish between visceral political dislike for leaders and the ethics or necessity of hard policy decisions, caution against flattening all forms of “evil,” and call for a reasoned, empathetic debate rooted in shared responsibility and history.