For Heaven's Sake Podcast: Episode Summary – "WAR WITH IRAN"

Release Date: June 13, 2025
Hosts: Donniel Hartman and Yossi Klein Halevi
Presented by: Ark Media and the Shalom Hartman Institute

1. Introduction and Context

The episode "WAR WITH IRAN" marks a pivotal moment for Israel as the nation grapples with the onset of a new and unprecedented conflict. Hosts Donniel Hartman and Yossi Klein Halevi delve into the immediate realities and emotional landscapes of a country at war, examining both personal and national implications.

Donniel sets the stage by reflecting on the ambiguous timelines of the conflict:
[00:09] Donniel Hartman: "I don't know what day to call it. Is today day 6 16? Or is today really day one of a new war and a new experience for us as Israelis?"

2. Personal Reflections on the War

Both hosts share their personal experiences and emotions as the war unfolds. Donniel expresses a sense of ambivalence and surrealism, contrasting his long-standing reservations about military solutions with the current reality where actions seem to speak louder than rhetoric.

[03:48] Yossi Klein Halevi: "If we allow that regime to attain the means to implement its genocidal vision, then the Jewish state has lost its legitimacy."

Yossi recalls a pivotal essay co-written with Michael Oren nearly two decades prior, emphasizing the existential threat posed by Iran and the moral imperative to act.

3. Rational vs. Irrational Perspectives on Iran's Threat

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the dichotomy between rational and irrational motivations behind attacking Iran. Yossi argues that Iran's actions, such as hosting Holocaust denial conferences and exhibiting apocalyptic threats, transcend rational political strategies and enter the realm of irrational obsession with Israel's destruction.

[20:49] Donniel Hartman: "I had a natural inclination to believe that the desire to destroy Iran's nuclear capacity, I found that that was irrational."

This contrast highlights their differing viewpoints: Yossi’s stance sees military action as a logical necessity to prevent existential threats, while Donniel initially viewed it as an irrational approach favoring military solutions over diplomatic negotiations.

4. The Impact of War on Israeli Society and Daily Life

The hosts paint a vivid picture of how the war permeates daily life in Israel. From disrupted family plans and altered Shabbat celebrations to the omnipresent threat of missile strikes, the war’s reach is all-encompassing.

[14:08] Yossi Klein Halevi: "This is the most extraordinary military achievement, I think, in Israel's history."

Donniel recounts the surreal experience of daily sirens and the communal response—how ordinary activities like grocery shopping become unprecedented social gatherings as half the population converges in supermarkets.

[14:11] Donniel Hartman: "Half of Israel was in my supermarket."

5. International Relations and Support

The conversation shifts to the dynamics of international support, particularly focusing on the United States' role. Donniel expresses frustration with perceived isolationism and lack of immediate support from the U.S., highlighting moments reminiscent of political maneuvering and miscommunication.

[31:25] Donniel Hartman: "I have been fuming this last Month or so ... how seemingly irrelevant and important we were in his world."

However, Yossi notes a shift in sentiment with the late intervention of former President Donald Trump, which Donniel acknowledges as a turning point that mitigates feelings of loneliness in the conflict.

6. Historical and Philosophical Underpinnings

Yossi brings a historical perspective, referencing the foundational doctrines that have shaped Israel’s security policies. He credits both Menachem Begin and Yitzhak Rabin as conceptual forefathers of the current stance against Iran, emphasizing the strategic foresight that now culminates in the present conflict.

[35:02] Yossi Klein Halevi: "Menachem Begin is the Begin doctrine determined that Israel's existential enemies will not be allowed to possess the military means to fulfill their genocidal threats."

Rabin’s strategic focus on neutralizing existential threats through both diplomacy and military preparedness is highlighted as a guiding principle that underpins the current military actions.

7. Concluding Thoughts and Future Outlook

As the episode nears its end, Donniel and Yossi reflect on the unprecedented nature of the conflict and the uncertainty that lies ahead. Donniel shares his mixed emotions of elation and concern, acknowledging the remarkable military achievements while remaining cautious about what the future holds.

[35:41] Yossi Klein Halevi: "This is not a gun on the table. This is a gun that's fired. We're humiliating Iran."

Yossi closes by reinforcing the resolve to defeat Iran, hoping that the current actions will mark the beginning of a process leading to the downfall of a regime deemed irredeemable.

[35:41] Yossi Klein Halevi: "My hope is that this is going to be the beginning of a process that will eventually bring this terrible regime down."

Donniel wraps up by announcing a new partnership with ARC Media, aiming to expand the "For Heaven's Sake" community and foster thoughtful dialogue on critical issues facing Israel and world Jewry.

[42:06] Donniel Hartman: "Shalom and Shabbat shalom from Jerusalem."

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Donniel Hartman [00:09]: "Is today day 6 16? Or is today really day one of a new war and a new experience for us as Israelis?"

• Yossi Klein Halevi [03:48]: "If we allow that regime to attain the means to implement its genocidal vision, then the Jewish state has lost its legitimacy."

• Donniel Hartman [14:11]: "Half of Israel was in my supermarket."

• Yossi Klein Halevi [20:49]: "We're dealing with one of those moments in Jewish history when we veer into the irrational."

• Yossi Klein Halevi [35:02]: "Menachem Begin is the Begin doctrine determined that Israel's existential enemies will not be allowed to possess the military means to fulfill their genocidal threats."

• Yossi Klein Halevi [35:41]: "This is not a gun on the table. This is a gun that's fired. We're humiliating Iran."

Conclusion

This episode of "For Heaven's Sake" provides a profound exploration of Israel's current military actions against Iran, intertwining personal narratives with deep philosophical and historical insights. Donniel and Yossi navigate the complexities of war, reflecting on the rational imperatives and existential threats that drive national security decisions. Their candid dialogue offers listeners a comprehensive understanding of the multifaceted dynamics shaping Israel's stand in this critical juncture.