Confessions of a Russiagate True Believer

Summary

Free Thinking Through the Fourth Turning with Sasha Stone
Episode: Confessions of a Russiagate True Believer
Release Date: July 28, 2025

In this compelling episode of Free Thinking Through the Fourth Turning, host Sasha Stone delves deep into the intricate web of Russiagate, media manipulation, and the shifting dynamics of American politics. Drawing from a comprehensive transcript, Stone articulates a transformation from a staunch believer in the Russiagate narrative to a critical skeptic, challenging long-held convictions and exposing what he perceives as systematic biases within the Democratic Party and mainstream media.

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1. The Russiagate Narrative and Its Impact

Stone begins by recounting his initial belief in the Russiagate conspiracy, a theory alleging that Russian interference was pivotal in Donald Trump's election campaign. However, as events unfolded over a decade, Stone asserts that this narrative not only failed to dismantle Trump's presidency but inadvertently fortified his position.

Notable Quote:
"[00:00] Sacha Stone: ...In their 10 year coup to spy on, discredit, impeach and unseat the twice elected President of the United States, Donald Trump, the Democrats have only made him stronger and more resilient."

Stone emphasizes that the prolonged Russiagate saga has backfired on the Democrats, strengthening Trump's base and resilience against political adversities.

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2. Media Manipulation and Democratic Strategy

A significant portion of the episode critiques the Democratic Party's tactics in perpetuating scandals and leveraging media to vilify Trump. Stone accuses Democrats of chasing baseless conspiracies like Pizzagate, fabricating stories to maintain political dominance, and suppressing dissenting voices.

Notable Quotes:
"[01:09] Sacha Stone: ...they have emerged from all of this as wild eyed doomsday preppers who've finally gone full Pizzagate."
"[03:54] Sacha Stone: Dear Donald Trump, there's something we want you to know. You do not represent us. ... we're going to do absolutely never, ever become president."

He portrays the Democratic narrative as a relentless attack on Trump without substantive policy proposals or accountability, relying instead on sensationalism and disinformation.

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3. The DNC Hack and Russian Involvement

The discussion intensifies around the Democratic National Committee (DNC) hack, where Stone challenges the prevailing belief that Russian interference was solely aimed at undermining Trump. Instead, he posits that Russian actors may have intended to bolster Trump's campaign by releasing stolen opposition research.

Notable Quotes:
"[10:16] Sacha Stone: ...it was actually much less complicated. It was a one in a million strategy laid out by Steve Bannon way back in 2012."
"[13:52] Sacha Stone: ...Russia would take that oppo file and provide it to Donald Trump."

Stone suggests that the release of the DNC files could have been a strategic move by Russian intelligence to support Trump, thereby reshaping the narrative from interference against to interference in favor of Trump.

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4. Media and Public Perception

Stone critiques the media's role in shaping public perception, arguing that mainstream outlets have created a monolithic narrative demonizing Trump. He highlights how investigative journalists like Rachel Maddow propagated Russiagate, influencing public opinion and marginalizing alternative viewpoints.

Notable Quotes:
"[11:34] Chris Matthews: ... experts are telling us that Russian state actors broke into the DNC, stole these emails, and ... leaking them to help elect Donald Trump."
"[23:24] Sacha Stone: The Russiagate lie was pushed through the feedback loop, a self contained bubble that went from morning news through the churn of social media to legacy media headlines."

Stone asserts that this media-driven narrative has stifled honest discourse and perpetuated a one-sided portrayal of Trump, labeling him as a Russian puppet without substantive evidence.

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5. The 2020 Election and Aftermath

Reflecting on the 2020 election, Stone discusses the intensified media manipulation, alleging that the Democratic Party engaged in extensive voter suppression, misinformation campaigns, and orchestrated events to discredit Trump and his supporters. He connects these actions to broader societal issues, including the suppression of dissent and the erosion of democratic principles.

Notable Quotes:
"[31:58] Sacha Stone: What happened to me, it wasn't until 2020 that I could finally see the strings. I saw the media manipulation to lie about everything from lockdowns to Covid to the vaccine to the protests."
"[21:26] Sacha Stone: ...the Democratic elite as corrupt and out of touch; supports Trump."

Stone contends that the 2020 election was marred by unprecedented levels of manipulation and coercion, ultimately undermining the integrity of the electoral process.

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6. Recent Revelations and Investigative Reporting

Towards the episode's conclusion, Stone references new investigative reports from sources like Real Clear Investigations and insights from experts like Aaron Mate. These revelations suggest that initial claims of Russian interference and collusion with Trump may have been overstated or misrepresented by intelligence agencies and the media.

Notable Quotes:
"[27:35] Chris Matthews: ...this is extremely damaging to American national security... now, they are not doing it to get me elected, they're doing it to try to influence the election for Donald Trump."
"[28:31] Sacha Stone: ...based on these newly classified documents is that the U.S. intelligence community that put out Mueller's allegations ... had low confidence in that assertion."

These discussions underscore Stone's belief that the Russiagate narrative was built on shaky foundations, with significant portions of the intelligence community expressing doubts about its validity.

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7. Conclusion and Reflections

In his final remarks, Stone reflects on his journey from a Russigate believer to a critic of mainstream narratives. He emphasizes the importance of seeking truth beyond established media channels and challenges listeners to question prevailing narratives. Stone also laments the lack of accountability for perceived Democratic manipulations and urges for a more transparent and fair political landscape.

Notable Quotes:
"[39:33] Sacha Stone: ...it's no longer sashastone.substack.com now it's sashastone.com ... remember to thine own self be true."

Stone concludes with a call for individual discernment and integrity, encouraging listeners to remain vigilant against misinformation and to uphold personal truths amidst pervasive media narratives.

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Key Takeaways:

• Russiagate Backfires: Prolonged Russiagate investigations may have inadvertently strengthened Trump's political standing.

• Media and Democratic Manipulation: Mainstream media and the Democratic Party are criticized for perpetuating unfounded conspiracies to undermine Trump without offering viable alternatives.

• Alternative Insights: New investigative reports challenge the validity of Russiagate claims, suggesting possible manipulation or misrepresentation by intelligence agencies and media outlets.

• Election Integrity Concerns: The 2020 election is portrayed as a period of intense manipulation and voter suppression, tarnishing democratic processes.

• Call for Critical Thinking: Stone advocates for listeners to question established narratives, seek alternative information sources, and prioritize personal truth over media-consumed beliefs.

This episode serves as a provocative critique of the Russiagate narrative, media bias, and Democratic strategies, urging listeners to reevaluate entrenched beliefs and seek a more nuanced understanding of American political dynamics.

Transcript

[Sacha Stone]

Hi, this is Free Thinking through the fourth turning. My name is Sacha Stone. Confessions of a Russiagate true Believer. I fell for all of it until I didn't. In their 10 year coup to spy on, discredit, impeach and unseat the twice elected President of the United States, Donald Trump, the Democrats have only made him stronger and more resilient. As Chris Matthews explains.

[Chris Matthews]

To be honest with you, the country.

[Sacha Stone]

Is moving towards Trump.

[Chris Matthews]

These polls that come out and show him not doing well, I don't, I don't buy that. I think strength, his strength is still greater than the Democratic strength. He is a stronger public figure than the Democratic people. I mean, Obama still has tremendous charisma, but Trump has strength and I think that's what all voters look for. But they wanted a president who is a strong figure and he's got it and he can. It's just there and half the country buys it. That's what I think.

[Sacha Stone]

By contrast, they've emerged from all of this as wild eyed doomsday preppers who've finally gone full Pizzagate, scraping the bottom of the barrel to chase a scandal that was never theirs to begin with and one they never cared about until right now. Will there ever be any accountability for what they've done in their attempts to override American democracy, disenfranchise half the country and preserve their power? Will they ever confront the truth that Americans were so desperate to be rid of them they were willing to re elect the twice impeached, four times indicted convicted felon who would want them in charge? They have no plan, no optimistic vision and no solutions. They have only one, an ongoing mass delusion that Trump is the ultimate evil. It is that delusion that has driven the hysteria that has led to the collapse of their empire. They just haven't figured it out yet. They lurch from one social media fantasy to another, all about Trump. And every time it takes them deeper into their delusions as they lose all of their power. If sex is involved, whether it's an imaginary trip on the Lolita Express to Epstein island or paid Russian prostitutes defiling him on the bed the Obamas slept in, or his night with Stormy Daniels, his dressing room encounter with E. Jean Carroll, these insane, repressed, puritanical women who define the typical Democrat now can't seem to get enough. Give us more. Their clicks and views say we're bored. We need salacious details, no matter how ludicrous, contradictory or implausible they may be. We need an injection of something other than the mind numbing Boredom of a monoculture that has become so sanitized and preordained that even Lifetime movies can no longer do the trick. Trump is their dirty little secret. The forbidden fruit, the dance with the devil. The first version of Trump sold to us was that he was a raging racist because of the Obama birther story and other myths that helped create an existential crisis that required a hearts and minds effort to eradicate. Here is a Clinton campaign ad. Dear Donald Trump.

[Chris Matthews]

Dear Donald Trump.

[Sacha Stone]

Dear Donald Trump, there's something we want you to know. You do not represent us. Your ideas do not represent us. Your values don't represent us. And we are going to do absolutely.

[Chris Matthews]

Everything we can to make sure you.

[Sacha Stone]

Never, ever become president. We believe in our country's founding principle that all people are created equal. That no matter the color of our skin, the faith we practice, or how.

[Chris Matthews]

Much money we have, or who we.

[Sacha Stone]

Love, we all deserve a chance at happiness.

[Chris Matthews]

Todos me de se mo se tratado condindidad.

[Sacha Stone]

You've spent your life looking out for yourself. When one of your businesses fails, you declare bankruptcy and pass the cost onto workers and small businesses.

[Chris Matthews]

You say you'll make America great again.

[Sacha Stone]

While manufacturing shirts in China and ties in Bangladesh.

[Chris Matthews]

But who cares as long as you.

[Sacha Stone]

Can fit that slogan on a hat of yours. You bulldozed your way into this nomination by sowing anger, hate and fear. Now you're counting on Americans to be cruel and narrow minded because that's what you are. But it's not who we are. That's why you always underestimate us and it's why you'll never beat us.

[Chris Matthews]

You fundamentally don't understand what makes America great. We are at our best when we stand up for each other. Our country faces deep problems, from systemic.

[Sacha Stone]

Racism and economic inequality to the overwhelming threat of climate change.

[Chris Matthews]

And we won't solve them by turning against each other.

[Sacha Stone]

We're going to work towards solutions and.

[Chris Matthews]

Help all Americans because we know that.

[Sacha Stone]

When people of all genders, races and religions can succeed, we're all better off. Put another way, we're stronger together. And when a bully comes after the people we love, we fight back. So that's exactly what we're gonna do.

[Chris Matthews]

We're going to enfranchise and empower as.

[Sacha Stone]

Many Americans as possible. And on November 8th, you'll hear our message loud and clear. We're better than this.

[Chris Matthews]

We're better than this.

[Sacha Stone]

We're better than this. We're better than this.

[Chris Matthews]

Somos mejor que esto.

[Sacha Stone]

In this country we stand for what's right.

[Chris Matthews]

We stand for tolerance and understanding, for.

[Sacha Stone]

Love and kindness, for empathy and equality. That means we stand against you. We are the people who are going to beat you this November.

[Chris Matthews]

Now you know exactly why.

[Sacha Stone]

Sincerely us. That version led to violent attacks against Trump supporters in 2015.

[Chris Matthews]

Tonight, Donald Trump condemning the protesters behind those bloody attacks on his supporters. They walk out and they get accosted by a bunch of thugs burning the American flag. And you know what they are? They're thugs. Anti Trump protesters hunting down the very people who backed Trump. Pelting a woman with eggs. Oh my God. Surrounding this man trying to get away. Other Trump supporters beaten. What happened? I was walking on the street and this guy like sucker punched me in the back of the head. The protesters shaking cars, breaking tail lights, police on hand.

[Sacha Stone]

But it seems that they didn't act quickly enough.

[Chris Matthews]

This amid concerns about security at the upcoming Republican National Convention.

[Sacha Stone]

The next version was that he wasn't a playboy from the 1980s who could get any woman he wanted. No, he was a rapist. Thanks to the Access Hollywood tape and the multiple women who came forward to tell their stories, none of them believable. And as we've seen, loud protests against Kavanaugh were held in and around the U.S. capitol building today. Dozens were arrested after breaking through barriers in front of the Capitol. Kenneth Craig has more on the day's demonstrations across the country. Stand up. Fight back.

[Chris Matthews]

These protesters in New York's Washington Square park wanted one last chance to have their voices heard.

[Sacha Stone]

It's not just crazy paid protesters or whatever myth the right is trying to perpetuate about these protests, that it's genuine American families who are scared for their kids future.

[Chris Matthews]

We found Jenny Robinson Hartley providing a lesson to her 12 year old son Oren.

[Sacha Stone]

We were talking about how terrible it is that people like that get very big power in the modern world.

[Chris Matthews]

Hundreds crowded the National Mall for from in front of the Supreme Court to the east front steps of the Capitol building where one by one protesters were arrested.

[Sacha Stone]

No means no Kavanaugh.

[Chris Matthews]

Demonstrations were organized across the country.

[Sacha Stone]

Who's Kirk?

[Chris Matthews]

In Cleveland, Atlanta, in Oakland and Austin, Texas. And even with the vote to confirm Brett Katie Kavanaugh secured.

[Sacha Stone]

That led to the MeToo movement where due process and the presumption of innocence were disregarded as once accused, forever guilty. You weren't accused of something. You were accused of being something. It was inside of you. Spectral evidence. Just like the witch trials in Salem. And every time someone was canceled in effigy of Trump, just as the Hangings in Salem. It was a celebration for another battle won against the ultimate evil.

[Chris Matthews]

Every Republican. I'd use an expression. You know there's an expression, but under the rules of MeToo, I'm not allowed to use that expression anymore. I can't do it. It's the person that got away. See, in the old days, it was a little different. Pennsylvania says, do it anyway. I would do it, except for these people up there. They would say, did you hear what President Trump said? Did you hear what he said? So there is an expression, but we'll change the expression. Pennsylvania was always the person that got away. That's pretty good, right? The person. And for many years, nobody, no Republican, won Pennsylvania.

[Sacha Stone]

Now, one version of Trump made it all the way into the highest reaches of government. Imagine a failed attempt to paint Trump as colluding with the Russians to win an election fell short. So they had to spin a yarn that the racist and rapist was also a Russian asset compromised by kompromat.

[Chris Matthews]

Putin's been a very strong leader for Russia. He kills journalists that don't agree with him. At least he's a leader. Putin did call me a genius. He said very nice things about me. Trump always seems to upend American foreign policy tradition in a way that benefits Vladimir Putin. The prime objective of the foreign policy of Putin has been to destroy NATO. NATO is obsolete and it's extremely expensive to the United States. Manafort has represented the pro Vladimir Putin Prime Minister of Ukraine, Yanukovych. As far as the DNC hack, there's strong evidence that indicates that it is the work of Russian intelligence. Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing. That's perhaps one more reason why we're not seeing his tax returns, because he.

[Sacha Stone]

Is deeply involved in dealing with Russian oligarchs.

[Chris Matthews]

Is he getting money from Russia? Is his business built on Russian loans?

[Sacha Stone]

I believed it. I'd already bought the books on Putin in late 2016. How could it not be true? Rachel Maddow had told me night after night after night, laying it all out in painstaking detail. Here she is in June of 2016, dropping those breadcrumbs. Of course I believed it, because I believed her. I trusted her. I trusted them. They wouldn't lie to me, would they? But in the midst of all that ongoing and breaking news today and into tonight, a political and international bombshell dropped tonight, thanks, apparently to a band of Russian hackers. It's one thing for the Russian government, the Chinese government, to hack into a political party to get their opposition research on a candidate for president, right? But when the Republican candidate for president is Donald Trump, and when Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin are so in love with each other, then when the Russian government breaks into the Democratic Party's headquarters and gets their oppo file on Trump, it sort of has a different cast, right? I mean, it sort of raises the prospect of Russia and Vladimir Putin rooting for Donald Trump to win the US Presidential election. I mean, that prospect is made even spookier by the fact that Trump's campaign manager, Paul Manafort, has long standing business ties to Russia and pro Putin dictators from whom he and his firm have taken millions of dollars. I mean, in a typical year with a typical presidential candidate, you would look at the Russian government obtaining this oppo research file, and you would think that their primary aim, you'd think that the biggest risk to America would be that they'd use that opposition material against that candidate if he or she was ever elected president. They'd use it against the United States of America. But when we learned about this hack at the DNC yesterday in the Washington Post, this indication was that Russia is actually rooting for Trump to become president. Well, that raised the provocative prospect that Russia wouldn't take that oppo file and use it against Donald Trump. Russia would take that oppo file and provide it to Donald Trump. They give it to him, share it, leak it. So nothing in that file could be used against him.

[Chris Matthews]

Right.

[Sacha Stone]

Or at least that he could defend himself from everything in that file because he'd know everything that did DNC had to throw at him. And then, lo and behold, today, one day after that Washington Post story, one day after we learned that the Russian government had broken in and gotten hold of the Democratic Party's opposition research file on Donald Trump. One day later, sure enough, the smoking gun and Gawker obtained and then published the file, what appears to be the whole Donald Trump oppo file from the Democratic Party's headquarters. They published it, so now it's in the public domain. Donald Trump's campaign, and everybody has access to this whole 200 plus page document. It does appear to be the Democratic Party's working oppo file of everything they've got to throw against Donald Trump. At least everything they had to throw against him up through mid December, which is when the document is dated. The Clinton campaign even said so. They proved it with the changes made to the GOP platform to please please Putin. That had to be true, right? No, it turns out it wasn't. True. None of it.

[Chris Matthews]

What's disturbing to us is that experts are telling us that Russian state actors broke into the dnc, stole these emails, and other experts are now saying that the Russians are releasing these emails for the purpose of actually helping Donald Trump. I don't think it's coincidental that that these emails were released on the eve of our convention here. And that's disturbing. And I think we need to be concerned about that. I think we need to be concerned that. We also saw last week at the Republican convention that Trump and his allies made changes to the Republican platform to make it more pro Russian. And we saw him talking about how NATO shouldn't intervene to defend, necessarily should intervene to defend our Eastern European allies if they're attacked by Russia. It's a very, very strong charge. At your level in here, you're basically suggesting that Russians hacked into the DNC and now are releasing these files through WikiLeaks to help elect Donald Trump. Well, this isn't my assertion. There are a number of experts that are asserting this. I think we need to get to the bottom of these facts. But that is what experts are telling us. Experts have said that it is the Russians that in fact went in and took these emails. And then if they are the ones who took them, we have to infer that they are the ones then releasing them.

[Sacha Stone]

Not only that, but it involved Barack Obama and his henchmen. If the lie that Trump was a Putin puppet resulted in Hillary's win, great. But what if she lost? Why not push out the lie anyway? Why not hobble Trump at the outset? Why not make him illegitimate just as he once suggested Obama's birth certificate was? Who wouldn't go along with it? We were all conditioned to follow the breadcrumbs and believe whatever they told us about Trump. So why wouldn't we believe this? No Trump, no kkk. No kkk, no fascist usa.

[Chris Matthews]

I do not want to see my country being handed over to the R. I think the most serious thing we got on our plate right now is that the Russians have got somebody in the White House or his team of people and nothing is being done about it. I contacted my representative, Justin Amash, and told him, I'm really concerned about this and I'm a veteran. I put my time in to try to defend our country. If you guys are veterans out there or you women are veterans, contact your representative and get them to push on this investigation about Russia's involvement with the Trump campaign, I think this is really serious.

[Sacha Stone]

And it turned out to be a Convenient pivot. It didn't have to be that Hillary Clinton was a high risk candidate with more baggage than the Kardashians on a ski trip to Aspen, or that she was likable enough up against a once in a generation political talent like Trump. It didn't need to be the Clinton campaign's decision to focus on Georgia rather than Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania. After all, the New York Times said she couldn't lose someone as powerful as Obama. A man we all treated like a God, could not lose to Donald Trump. He couldn't have stood on stage with Katy Perry and Bruce Springsteen and had an election go that badly. None of them could stand it. Not on the FBI, not on the legacy media, not any of us. No, it had to be Putin. Because our intelligence community just came out and said in the last few days that the Kremlin, meaning Putin, and the Russian government are directing the attacks. The hacking on American accounts to influence our election. And WikiLeaks is part of that, as are other sites where the Russians hack information. We don't even know if it's accurate information. And then they put it out. We have never in the history of our country been in a situation where an adversary, a foreign power, is working so hard to influence the outcome of the election. And believe me, they're not doing it to get me elected. They're doing it to try to influence the election for Donald Trump. Now, maybe because he has praised Putin, maybe because he says he agrees with a lot of what Putin wants to do, maybe because he wants to do business in Moscow, I don't know the reasons, but we deserve answers. And we should demand that Donald release all of his tax returns so that people can see what are the entanglements and the financial relationships. We're going to get to that later, Secretary Clinton. In reality, it was actually much less complicated. It was a one in a million strategy laid out by Steve Bannon way back in 2012.

[Chris Matthews]

This all is going to come down to a ground game. This is all going to come down to voter turnout. This is going to come out in places like Florida, North Carolina, Virginia, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, Colorado, a handful of states and about 5 million people will determine the direction of the country. It is absolutely incumbent upon all of us that we have just as much hard work and just as much determination as we had in 2010. Remember, with no money and no support in 2010, the Tea Party won a huge victory. And that was all because people got off the sofa, went to a rally, found their neighbors, went to Facebook, got on Twitter, went to these sites, used social media with no money at all. We totally disintermediated, which is a fancy term for saying we. We moved the political parties out of the way and people took control of their own destinies. That has to happen. If you think, if you're frustrated, this is not going to happen in one election. We're in literally a 10 or 20 year struggle for the future of the country. And that's where you're just going to have to man up tough enough, just like our forefathers. Right. We're going to have to do exactly the kind of effort they had and we can win.

[Sacha Stone]

They had to manufacture the Russiagate story because they couldn't face the ugly truth about what they had become, how they'd abandoned the rest of this country and insulated themselves in their castle in the sky. By the end, they were no different from the other upended aristocracies when the people had had enough. This is not a complicated story if you're living in reality. The 2016 election recalled the infamous quote about the lavish ball held in honor of the 290th anniversary of the House of the Romanovs, held in the Winter Palace, St. Petersburg. But it was a moment that would symbolize the empire's ultimate collapse. From Grand Duke Alexander Mikhaylovich, the last spectacular ball in the history of the empire. But a new and hostile Russia glared through the large windows of the palace while we danced. The workers were striking and the clouds in the Far east were hanging dangerously low. While Democrats now have to fend off their own communist uprising, 2016 wasn't one. It was the populists, a genuine grassroots movement that reflected the voice of a country that was sick of an elite ruling class lecturing them about how to speak, how to live and what to believe in. Sneering at them, judging them, shutting them out. And yet that couldn't be the reason Trump won. It couldn't be the people who made that decision. The people never decide, at least not when it comes to Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton. They live by another quote, one from Citizen Kane. Really, Charles?

[Chris Matthews]

People will think what I tell them to think.

[Sacha Stone]

The Russiagate lie was pushed through the feedback loop, a self contained bubble that went from morning news through the churn of social media to legacy media headlines, up to cable news and late night comedy podcast listeners. A headline from the New York Times. U.S. intelligence agencies have high confidence Russia acted covertly to help Trump in election, officials say Dec. 9, 2016. Those who questioned it, such as Matt Taibbi Walter Kern and Aaron Mate saw their careers evaporate and their friends turn against them. Here are Walter Kern and Matt Taibbi from America this week.

[Chris Matthews]

This is, this is extremely damaging to American national security to suggest that a sitting president is in contact with Russian intelligence, is compromised, is blackmailed. Like, I'm sorry, if you're leaking classified shit to try to put that out there, like, maybe it's not a death penalty, but that's as bad as it gets for, for an intelligence official, to me, I think, well, it's not assassination, but it's getting rid of someone potentially by other means who has been elected by the people. But what's old about it really? Because the fact is Donald Trump's president again, right, and have they completely backed off all of this, in other words? No, they haven't. How is it old news when the Pulitzer Prizes still sit on the shelves of the New York Times? How is it old news when everywhere you go, among certain groups and certain demographics, the idea that Donald Trump is a Russian agent is just sort of, you know, orthodox catechistic belief. How is it old news when we are right now in a proxy war with that country, Russia? I mean, how many times have we heard it described in the Ukraine coverage that we're now on Russia's side, that we're at that Trump is effectively an ally of Russia? It all traces back to the same shit, Matt. How is it old news when the likes of me and you and people we know are now repeatedly, persistently, and probably eternally going to be accused by trolls of being Russian friendly Russian stooges just because we want to report on this thing or comment on it in a way that is not Orthodox. It's true. I mean, there's a whole community of people who were kind of shoved out of the, the trust tree as a result of this thing. And yeah, you know, the, they became the, the heterodox media space. Some of them are frantically trying to get back in good graces by, you know, reporting on other negative things about Trump. And I, and I get that, I just, I, I think you can't let this thing go, though. I, I, this is a, this was a gigantic story. And, you know, for people who say, well, they, they'll never win in a, in a D.C. court, okay, I don't know, I, I think the evidence, it depends on what they charge, but they didn't win against OJ Either. But, you know, he stopped getting invited.

[Sacha Stone]

To the same parties even after the entire thing was exposed and condemned in The Columbia Journalism Review. It hasn't made its way into the bubble. Everyone I know on the left still believes it. For podcast listeners, a headline columbia Journalism review, the Press vs. The President and a video with Carl Cannon from reelclearpolitics and Aaron mate, new doc show FBI and NSA never believed Trump Worked with the Russians.

[Chris Matthews]

Welcome back to the show. I'm Carl Cannon, Washington Bureau Chief.

[Sacha Stone]

You're listening to us on RCP Radio, well, really Sirius XM Radio or maybe on our podcast. Joined now by Aaron Mate, Real Clear Investigations reporter, a terrific investigative reporter from California. As a story, we let it, we.

[Chris Matthews]

It was on Real Clear Investigations, but we put it as a lead story.

[Sacha Stone]

On Real Clear Politics this morning.

[Chris Matthews]

And the headline is Russia Gates Architects Suppressed Doubts to Pedal False Claim. It's another look at these original investigations that led to Robert Mueller, John Durham investigations, Senate reports, Trump impeachment, all kinds of stuff flowed out of it. But you know, Aaron, as I look at this, I, I'm going to ask.

[Sacha Stone]

You about your story in a minute.

[Chris Matthews]

Tulsa Gamber put out a version of it and the new CIA director is, and they seem a little bit, you know, sort of a counter narrative that's almost the opposite of what was the dominant narrative for a while.

[Sacha Stone]

I'm sort of skeptical of both of them. But this does look, the more we.

[Chris Matthews]

Look into this, and you've been looking at this for years, there was really much less to this, to this association, alleged association between Vladimir Putin and the.

[Sacha Stone]

Trump campaign.

[Chris Matthews]

Than we were led to believe. A lot less.

[Sacha Stone]

Wasn't there?

[Chris Matthews]

Absolutely. Trump calls it a hoax. And I think that's an accurate statement now. Really? Absolutely. I mean, we know by now that the collusion aspect was completely baseless. There was nothing there. I mean, nobody defends that anymore. The collusion angle of this, the basis for the investigation, which the FBI claimed was a tip about George Papadopoulos, a low level campaign volunteer, that appears to be by all accounts just an excuse to cover up the real predicate for the investigation, which looks to be the Steele dossier, which is funded by Hillary Clinton, a collection of debunk conspiracy theories. But regardless, nobody defends the notion anymore there was some sort of high level conspiracy between Trump's campaign and Russia which was the basis for the FBI's investigation and the Mueller probe. But the enduring allegation has been what Mueller described as a sweeping and systematic Russian interference campaign on Trump's behalf to put Trump in office and defeat Hillary Clinton. And what we're reporting now is in Real clear investigations based on these newly classified documents is that the U.S. intelligence community that put out Mueller's allegations and that, you know, put forward this notion of a sweeping Russian influence interference operation. They suppressed high level doubts from the two premier intelligence agencies that were investigating this. The FBI, which took the lead in the Trump Russia investigation, and the nsa, which would be the intelligence agency best placed to identify who actually hacked the DNC, the Democratic Party servers, and gave them the WikiLeaks. Because that was the allegation along with collusion that was at the heart of Russiagate. The allegation that Russia hacked the DNC basically kicked off russiagate when it was first lodged by the Clinton campaign through their contractor, CrowdStrike. And what we're reporting on now is new documents showing that in September 2016, as the Russian interference allegations are heating up, the FBI and the NSA broke from their counterparts in CIA and said, we have low confidence that Russia hacked the DNC and then released that material through online Personas as well as WikiLeaks. That's the allegation here that's at the heart of Russian interference claims. And what we're saying is we're only learning now, more than eight years later, that the FBI and the NSA had low confidence in that assertion. So this is where my speculation comes in. I think at that point, this is after Trump has won. The controversy around Russia is swirling. There's an effort at this point to taint Trump with Russia. It really ramps up after he wins. I think at that point it was decided we're going to blame Russia. And somehow the dissent from the FBI and the NSA was overcome because a month later, when a new intelligence assessment was put out to the public with the FBI and the NSA involved, now all of a sudden, that low confidence had changed from high confidence. But we have no way of knowing what changed in the FBI and the nsa. How did they go from saying, we have low confidence in this Russian hack and leak allegation to high confidence? They've never, ever explained that.

[Sacha Stone]

What happened to me, it wasn't until 2020 that I could finally see the strings. I saw the media manipulation to lie about everything from lockdowns to Covid to the vaccine to the protests. I saw them change the voting laws and the ballot harvesting. I saw them hide Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. I saw them use violence in the streets and the destruction of our cities to fool people into voting Trump out. All of that hysteria, all of those lies, all of that delusion finally exploded onto the streets. And there has never been any Accountability for any of it. Not the violence, not the lies, not the suppression of the Hunter Biden laptop. I left the Democratic Party and I thought, if they remain in power, we'll never have a fair election again. And when I saw the riot on January 6, I could see their fingerprints all over it. Because by now, what couldn't they do? They were even mandating the chosen narrative and punishing anyone who dared question it by banning them from social media or debanking them. The legacy press would act as their propaganda machine to sell whatever narrative the Democrats needed to purge Trump and his supporters from utopia. Trump was banned from YouTube, Twitter and Facebook. Amazon took the successful social media site Parler offline. Anyone who supported Trump was now a suspect in the so called insurrection. And anyone who questioned what happened in 2020 was an election denier. It got worse. By 2024, following the lawfare and attempts to remove Trump from the ballot and eliminate any challengers to Joe Biden, a George Clooney op ed functioned as a soft coup to push Biden out. Then they simply installed Kamala Harris as their chosen nominee without a single vote. A dangerous escalation for a party now steeped in totalitarianism. And there was only one man with that kind of power to orchestrate such a thing. Only one man who had the power of influence to make those kinds of decisions. Only one man pulling the strings at it wasn't Donald Trump. This was a powerful coalition led by someone who could not walk away. I don't know what it would feel like to be treated like a God, to be that beloved all over the world. But I imagine it would not be easy to hand that over, especially not to Trump. But Barack Obama does not have the right to decide who should and should not lead this country. No one does. That power belongs to all of us, the American people. By 2016, the Obama Kingdom encompassed all institutions, universities, corporations, in the entirety of culture, including Hollywood, most advertising in Silicon Valley. Trump would shock the world by defeating the most powerful coalition in modern American history, maybe ever. And he did it twice. I say it often when they come at me in a wild eyed frenzy of hate, screeching about whatever it is that has consumed their fantastical imaginings. This week he beat you twice. That's the only thing they should be thinking about. But they have become vampires by now, with a taste for blood they couldn't stop if they wanted to. And as we watch them handle the Epstein story in the same way we've seen them do so many times before, some of us can See the strings? So let's get this straight. Not only is Trump a racist, rapist, fascist, Hitler, dictator, criminal, felon, Putin, puppet, clown, reality TV star having an affair with his own daughter, but now he's also a pedo. According to those who spin the narratives and plant the lies, the machine I helped build requires everyone to go along with it. You're all the way in or you're all the way out. Every day, a new hashtag for podcast listeners, a trending topic on Twitter, pedopresident, and a tweet from Matt Von Swall. Crazy leftists in North Carolina have climbed up and vandalized a highway billboard with these words, trump is still a pedo. Reports are coming in that multiple other sides have also been vandalized every day. The objective remains the same as it was 10 years ago, to sell the version of Trump that those still trapped inside the doomsday bunker demand. He'll always be the supervillain of their own making. They will never learn. They will never change. For podcast listeners, tweets from Tom Bevin from the Washington Post. Scotland protests Trump with Whit bite and bagpipes from the Guardian. People have seen through him and he's not welcome. Scotland tees up for Trump visit. And today, cnn, ap, New York Times. Trump's trip to Scotland reopens old wounds. A golfing Trump is greeted by by protesters in Scotland. The one version of Trump they cannot and will never understand is the real one, the guy who just beat them a second time. It's always been about them and their unwillingness to do the one thing they would have to do to defeat him. Offer the people something better. When I escaped the bunker, it was out of desperation, a quest for what was actually true. I watched all of Trump's rallies, all five a day in 2020, and got to know Maga. It was the hardest thing I've ever done. I can't lie about that. But it's also, as the saying goes, that the truth shall set. Thank you for listening to my podcast. And it's no longer sashastone substack.com now it's sashastone.com and if you like this episode, please consider leaving a tip. There's a link on my website, sashastone.com I hope you had a great weekend. And remember to thine own self be true. There's a fire starting in my heart Reaching a fever pitch and it's bringing me out the dark Finally I see you Crystal Go ahead and send me out while I lay your ship there See how I Leave with every piece of you. Don't underestimate the things that I will do. There's a fire starting in my heart reaching a fever pigeon is bringing me.

[Chris Matthews]

Out the dark.

[Sacha Stone]

The skies of your love remind me of us. They keep me through thinking that we almost had it all. The skies of your love rem I can't help feeling we could have had it all. Rolling in the deep you and my heart inside of your head. But you paid it to the be baby I have no story to be told But I've heard one on you And I'm gonna make your way weapon see me and the depths of your despair. Making a home down there cuz mine show won't be sh. The skies of your remind me of us. They keep me thinking that we almost had it all. The sky oh nothing leave me. Deep breath and I can't help feeling. We could have had it. Rolling in the deep. You had my heart inside of your head. But she played it to the me. We could have had it. Rolling in the deep. You had my heart inside of your hair but you played it with the beauty. Throw your soul through every open door. Count your blessings to find what you're looking for. Turn my sorrow into treasure gold Pay me back in time and reach just what you. So you're gonna wish you never have met me. Tears are gonna fall burning in the deep. You're gonna wish you you could have had it all. You could have had it all. Rolling in the deep. You had my heart inside your head. But you paid it you played it, you played it you paid it to the beam.