Interview with Jenny Holland

Summary

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Podcast Summary

Episode Overview

Podcast: Free Thinking Through the Fourth Turning with Sasha Stone
Episode: Interview with Jenny Holland
Date: May 15, 2026
Host: Sasha Stone
Guest: Jenny Holland (Saving Culture from Itself, on Substack & YouTube)

This episode brings together two cultural critics who both migrated from the progressive left toward a more contrarian, MAGA-adjacent worldview. Sasha and Jenny discuss their personal and generational journeys, cultural and political transformations in the West, the rise of identity-based politics, and their skepticism toward contemporary progressive orthodoxy. The conversation is unscripted, personal, and intellectually rigorous, blending memoir, political analysis, and cultural critique.

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Backgrounds and Early Influences

• At the outset, Sasha introduces Jenny as someone ten years younger but with a similar non-mainstream upbringing ([00:34]).
• Jenny recounts her leftist, bohemian family: A mother with roots in social justice Catholicism, then Trotskyism; a working-class poet father from Belfast; years spent in Italy and Northern Ireland. Upbringing consistently "outside the mainstream" ([03:21]).
• Jenny's early media career: News assistant at The New York Times (present during 9/11), reporter in Rhode Island, then a speechwriter; her journalism career faded as the industry entered digital disruption ([04:09]).
• Critical moment: Jenny left the US in 2011, partially due to discomfort with left-wing racial narratives gaining traction, particularly in Brooklyn. Increasingly noticed “sharp edge to people’s opinions” on race and identity ([07:02]).

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Key Tipping Points: From Left-Liberal to Dissident

Jenny’s Political Evolution

• Initially devastated by Trump’s 2016 win but saw rising “toxic and evil” racialized leftism as a factor in Democratic losses. The social justice/identity politics shift struck her as “abjectly racist,” alienating her further ([08:54]).
• The pandemic and its political handling was the final straw—she became “alarmed” at progressive conformity and broke from left/liberal identity during COVID ([09:49]).
• Sasha notes how she was slower to recognize the excesses of the left, remaining a “guilty white liberal” until well into the Obama years ([09:11]).

The Media Bubble and Groupthink

• Jenny: “It was like Body Snatchers... Something was operating in its skin, in its place. Genuinely unsettled by that.” ([34:01])
• Both describe the psychological pressure of being expected to accept guilt and blame for historical and group wrongdoing, especially as white people on the left ([09:49–10:54]).

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Culture Wars, Identity Marxism, and Virtue Signaling

The Shift to Identity Politics and Virtue as Social Currency

• Both lament the movement from class-based to identity-based progressivism. Sasha: “Identity is the new Marxism… They don’t care about poor white people. They care about virtue signaling and using people of color as shields.” ([11:59–12:38])
• Memorable phrase: Jenny: “It’s communism, but make it fashion.” ([12:53])
• The pair critique “goodness as the goal,” where moral status trumps craftsmanship or artistic vision ([17:37–18:16]).
• Cultural examples discussed: Lupita Nyong’o cast as Helen of Troy (“not the face that launched a thousand ships”), and the trend of casting for controversy or virtue, not authenticity ([17:37–21:01]).

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Fourth Wall, Propaganda, and The Loss of Realism

• Jenny: “Everything became fake… The fourth wall fucking disappeared… most people can’t make anything good anymore because the memo went out. Now everyone’s looking awkward… even talented actors.” ([28:34–30:11])
• Sasha draws a link to masks and pandemic polarization: virtue as a “struggle session,” signaling in/out-group loyalty ([18:16–20:48]).
• The trans trend in Hollywood is presented as a test of conformity: “The presence of a trans actor… is a way to say you will conform to what we believe. We will ostracize you. This is a struggle session.” ([23:49])

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Steve Bannon as a Transformative Influence

• Jenny describes hearing Steve Bannon on Red Scare during the pandemic as “like someone gave me water in the desert” ([35:45]), a shocking realization that Bannon sounded like the “left-wing I wanted to be part of,” catalyzing her break from the left.
• Binge-listened to Bannon’s War Room, realizing “everything, every single bit… [about the pandemic, politics] has been a lie” ([37:31]).
• Sasha similarly credits Bannon for opening her eyes: “He predicted that the Democrats would take the House and impeach Trump… He knows what he’s talking about” ([44:16–45:29]).

Jenny: “He has returned to the audience their active role and the honor that is their due. No other journalist or politician or content creator has ever done that.” ([46:45])

Sasha: “God bless Steve Bannon for fighting the good fight… the Trump thing, they can’t destroy him, though they’re going to try.” ([61:25])

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War, Propaganda, and the State of the Right

• Both express alarm over increasing violence and propaganda (the failed Trump assassination attempt, the polarization of the media) ([62:05–62:40]).
• Jenny: “It is a war… for now, an information war… but we are taking… casualties.” ([52:11])
• High praise for Bannon as a “lion,” and as the person who understands the importance of activating real, grounded people, not just elites ([53:34]).
• Sasha and Jenny discuss their frustration with the cynicism and disdain of mainstream leftist media, as opposed to the honor and agency encouraged by Bannon and “MAGA” figures ([47:45–49:27]).

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Generational and Gender Analysis

• Sasha observes the profound psychological trauma and fragility caused by the intersection of feminism, “mental health revolution,” and the disruptions posed by Trump’s unapologetic masculinity ([71:17–72:31]).
• Both see Gen Z as more solid and potentially more likely to rebel against woke orthodoxy than millennials, who are “perpetually mothered by society” ([69:43–71:17]).
• Jenny: “There are probably going to be enough young men… who can take the franchise back” ([69:43]).

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American Liberalism as Social Bubble

• Sasha gives insight into life as a dissident in a “blue sky town” in California — ostracized, unable to wear a MAGA hat, banned from Nextdoor app; emphasizes how propaganda shapes people’s perceptions and enforces conformity ([59:12–61:25]).
• Observes the media/advertising divide: “If you go to a right-wing podcast, it’s MyPillow… If you go to a mainstream one, it’s all the big brands. That tells you where the culture is divided” ([61:25]).

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Satire, Pop Culture, and the Perfectionist Trap

• Both lament that contemporary culture (e.g., Saturday Night Live) refuses to satirize this “perfectly ripe” content for parody. They reminisce about Woody Allen’s Sleeper as a prescient critique of progressive utopianism ([73:03–76:20]).
• Jenny: “You end up transing your own children. That’s exactly where that leads… that is such a weird and unhuman worldview” ([80:46–80:59]).

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Role of Christianity & Spiritual Consolation

• Religion as resistance: Jenny finds value in Christianity’s framing of human imperfection: “You’re not supposed to be perfect, comfortable, happy… Accepting the trials of life and redirecting all glory to God as a buttress against the worst in life” ([83:09–85:40]).
• Sasha (emotionally): “If you have nothing else, you have God, you have someone who loves you… And I can see why Christianity is so popular…” ([85:45–87:19])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “It’s communism, but make it fashion.” - Jenny ([12:53])
• “Everything became fake… the fourth wall fucking disappeared.” - Jenny ([28:34])
• “The presence of a trans actor in a movie is a way to say you will conform to what we believe. We will ostracize you.” - Sasha ([23:49])
• “He has returned to the audience their active role—the kind of honor that is their due. No other journalist… has ever done that.” - Jenny on Bannon ([46:45])
• “If you have nothing else, you have God, you have someone who loves you… And I can see why Christianity is so popular.” - Sasha ([85:45])

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Jenny’s family/political background: [03:21–07:02]
• 2016 Trump win and Democrat disillusionment: [08:54–09:11]
• Pandemic as breaking point; encountering Bannon: [34:01–37:31]
• Cultural critique of Hollywood/woke media: [17:37–30:11]
• Praise and discussion of Steve Bannon: [35:45–53:43]
• On life as a MAGA dissident in blue America: [59:12–61:25]
• Role of Christianity, imperfection, and comfort: [83:09–87:19]
• Woody Allen’s Sleeper and satire lost: [73:03–76:20]

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Closing Thoughts

Both speakers express cautious optimism about the future as the pendulum swings and young people quietly resist “woke” groupthink. Despite the darkness of the culture war, both Jenny and Sasha find solace in communities that encourage agency, faith, and openness — “not being zombified by woke.” They urge listeners toward critical thinking, community, and looking beyond left-right tribalism.

Jenny’s work: “Saving Culture from Itself” — find on Substack and YouTube.

Sasha’s audience takeaway: Expect more conversations to come, as these issues remain urgent, complex, and deeply personal.

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Transcript

[A]

It's. It sounds like Boomer. Trauma Inflicted on Young Gen X.

[B]

That's what your next book should be called. Hi, everyone, and welcome to Free Thinking through the Fourth Turning. I'm Sasha Stone. A voice you're used to hearing and a face you're not used to seeing. So we're gonna try it. If it's okay, we'll. If I can tolerate it, we'll post. I'll post the video. I'm here with Jenny Holland, who runs Saving Culture from itself on both YouTube and substack. Hello, Jenny.

[A]

Hi, Sasha. I'm so happy to be here today.

[B]

Yes, I'm so glad you're here, and thank you for having me on your show, which you did a while back, and I thought I would return the favor. But also to introduce you to my audience, anybody who doesn't know you, which a lot of them do, because I've been getting the same, you know, you've gotta check out Jenny Holland. And we, you know, know we're 10 years apart. You're 10 years younger than me. Yes. But our experiences are similar. So I thought I would introduce you to my audience and. And hear your story.

[A]

Oh, I'm so. I'm delighted. I'm. I'm very, very honored as well, because for years I said this to you. Last time we spoke, for years I was told, oh, you're. You sound just like Sasha Stone.

[B]

Or you.

[A]

You remind me of Sasha Stone. And I was always like, who is Sasha Stone? Oh, and by the way, as you probably know, there's another Sasha Stone out there who is like. I was like, I remind you of that guy? What? Random. I don't know how. Like, I'm not like a guru. I don't know what that. Anyway, I eventually figured it out, so, yeah, it's. It's a delight. And. And talking to you a few times we've spoken has been true highlight, actually, and also one of the. One of the big hits of. For my audience. They were delighted, actually, with our chat, which was, I don't know, two months ago, something like that.

[B]

Yeah, I don't remember either, because in between was my dog died. And I think, like, the trauma erased everything that came before. But yeah, Sasha Stone is s a C h a the man. And for a long time, when I first started my substack, I had all these people, when are you coming to my country? When are you coming to speak and asking me all these crazy questions about 5G and sort of like, things that I always have to say. I'm not that Sasha Stone. And it's weird because there's a sashastone.com that's also him and I just got a subscription the other day. Oh, I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to subscribe to you.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

And for a while there, if you did a Google search of us, image search, we would be interchangeable. Right. Like, I must look a little bit, you know, scraggly hair, he looks similar to me. No offense out there. Other socks.

[A]

I don't mean that.

[B]

I just mean for whatever reason our, our faces, something about us was similar enough that Google would mix us up, so.

[A]

Oh, that's so funny. Yeah.

[B]

All right. So.

[A]

Well, it's weird to have two influencers, for lack of a better word, with the same name. That's

[B]

very weird. And then sort of in the same as where you are, which is the MAGA adjacent. So I understand that 2020 was also one of those years for you, like when things changed. So what was that like? Why don't you tell me what started it and what got you on your road, where you were before, who you were before and how things change.

[A]

Well, I mean, originally I grew up in a very sort of lefty bohemian family. My parents were. My mother was originally from just outside of New York City and she came from a large Catholic family. But they weren't. They were sort of trad cath. But they were also like Dorothy Day, like social justice Catholics. Like she went to the march on Washington and so she had this. She had this sort of unusual upbringing also because it wasn't kind of respectable Catholics, it was sort of these more renegades. They lived off in the woods. And then she became a Trotskyist once she left her faith and went off to France and lived out the sex. She was a one woman sexual revolution, we should say.

[B]

Jenny, we were talking about Ireland, right? You're not talking about here?

[A]

No, my mother's from New York.

[B]

Oh, she's from New York.

[A]

Yeah. So in New York. So that she left New York and married.

[B]

Yeah, yes.

[A]

She was in Paris in 1970 and then met my dad and I think 1973. And then my father was originally from Belfast and he was from a very working class family. Like very like tiny, tiny house. Shared a bed with his uncle, had an outdoor toilet, like, you know, very, very old, old world sort of stuff. Still Victorian in their living standards.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And he became a poet. So like he became a poet who literally didn't have a pot to piss in. And my mother met him and they had this mad Love Story and kind of traveled around the world. Like, they didn't have a lot of money, but they lived well and frugally. And anyway, we ended up in Italy for a bunch of years and I. So I went to an Italian school, and then I went to an American private school, and then I. Then we moved back to Belfast. And then. So I had this kind of unusual upbringing. A bit not, not, not. I mean, unlike yours in the details, but very similar to yours in that. Outside the mainstream. I think maybe this is why we have. We share. We share a vibe because it was very much outside the mainstream and kind of dipping your toe into normal, like what. What normal mainstream life is, but never really being part of it and certainly never feeling part of it. I've. I've. I've heard you talk about your. Your childhood and stuff, and it was very resonant for me. Um, and then I went into the media. In my early 20s. I worked in the New York City media. I worked for the New York Times for three years. I was sort of a news assistant, but it was a very newsy job. It was on Metro. I was there for 9 11. I was there for JFK Jr's death, a couple of major plane crashes, but obviously 911 was the biggest one. And it was, you know, just a tremendous experience, professionally speaking. It was like nothing, you know, like, you can't. I'll never go. I'll never see the likes of that again. You know, just a whole organization kind of coming together to put out this paper. And then I left and I was a reporter in Middletown, Rhode island for a few years. And then my dad died. Actually, my dad died 22 years ago today. And weirdly, like, my journalism career weirdly died with him, which I is. I wasn't like a Nepo baby. I mean, I kind of was. Because he was a journalist, he became a writer and he wrote a lot of books about the troubles. And he had, like, a very specific niche. And so he introduced me to some people, but, like, I don't know, it was just this really bad confluence of events. One being the bottom is falling out of the newspaper business, Craigslist and all that. The Internet was really taking a chunk out of everything. And like, we. I didn't know it at the time, but we were. We were transitioning from the old world to the brave new world. And so I. Then I did other things. I was a speechwriter for a while, and then I moved. I left America in 2013, 2011. And one of the reasons, although I wouldn't have put it like this at the time, and I didn't have the words for it at the time was My son was 2, and I was looking around me in New York and starting to feel weirdly uncomfortable with everything that had just been normal like, a few years before. And especially thinking about my son and was living in Brooklyn and like, it. It was just suddenly this, like, sharp edge to people's opinions. It was sort of like, white people deserve to have bad things happen to them. And I was like, no, we. No, we don't. I. I don't think. I don't think we do. And I was like, I don't really want my son, like, to grow up with this, you know, but that was 2011. It would take me another six years to really start to really, really become alarmed at it. When Trump got elected in 2016, I cried. I was upset. I was devastated. I couldn't believe it. But one thing I did do was I said to myself, and, you know, maybe to my close associates, this is kind of on the Democrats because they've been running around. Because by that point, I had already picked up on a lot of the crazy. We called it then social justice warrior, political correctness. I was like, that's a real turn off for, like, regular Democrats. So I don't know what they kind of expected to happen. I was seeing it mostly as a campus thing, but I was so unnerved by it. Like, the racial stuff was so toxic and evil and, like, just abjectly racist. And I was like this. How is everyone just going along with this and, like, pretending it's fine? It was so, so weird. And I struggled along, still calling myself a liberal until Covid. And then I was like, oh, you all have really lost your minds.

[B]

So you were way ahead of it, the curve than I was, because I was. Oh, yeah, I was very much a woke liberal. I was riding this wave with them. It happened after Obama's second term, which was his second, his reelection in 2010 or 2012. It was right around that time when they concluded that the reason he was being obstructed, I think, was because America was racist. And they had to turn that around. But I was so in it, man. I was such a, like, guilty white liberal. I was totally right there with all the stuff you're talking about. Like, I'm impressed that you knew it and you could recognize it back then, because I couldn't. I was blindly going into it.

[A]

Do you think it might be temperamental? Like, I just, as a. My temperament is Just ill suited to. To taking blame for things I didn't actually do. Like, I just. I. To me, it was just like, wow. I just found it, like, grating and. I don't know, just like, I just wanted to tell everyone to just fuck off. Like, I. I couldn't really get. I just couldn't. There was no intellect, intellectualization process possible for me. I remember having a conversation with my very liberal family. You know, in my American family, I come in this large family and everyone was a big Obama fan. You know, they. They're all. They all. They. We. They probably would. They're probably. If they know what I'm doing, they're horrified by it. I don't know. Thankfully, they. They don't say anything to me about it. But conversation when Hillary and Obama were going for the nomination and somebody, one of my cousins said, maybe, I think, you know, the discussion was, who has less of a shot, a white, a woman or a black man.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I remember saying, no, absolutely, the country is more sexist than it is racist. I just. That one thing turned out to be right. I mean, I think it was like a stopped clock is right twice a day. But, you know, like, I happened to hit that one. Right. But I was still like, but the country is very sexist. Anyway, all of that would be then under. Under revision within 10 years.

[B]

Yeah. And that's, by the way, why I was so. I knew it would be Hillary in 2016 and why I know it's going to be Kamala in 2028. Because that's the thinking. We have to. Hang on a second. Because that's the thinking. We have to continue this corrective until we get it right. And she's going to go for it and they're going to go for it again and probably lose again. Although you never know.

[A]

Well, you never know. I mean, do you. Do you really think it will be Kamala again? Not even Gavin Newsom, who's all like, you know, got all this strut.

[B]

Well, okay, so we're gonna deviate from your story for a minute just to talk politics quickly. I don't think it's going to be Gavin because he's too slippery. He goes along with anything and he's a white male. They think, oh, we'll just go with the white male. No, not right now. No way. Not with Zorhan Momdani and. And Hassan Piker and AOC leading this woke socialist revolution. Like, it's Marxism, but it's Marxism on identity. You know, identity is the new Marxism and not Economics so much because they're the ruling class, so it can't be about economics. They pretend it is, but it's not really. They don't care about poor white people. Right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They care about virtue signaling and, and using people of color as shields. So it's never going to, they're never going to be represented by Gavin Newsome. I mean these blue sky liberal women, these crazy women, you think they're going to be into that?

[A]

Yeah, it's, it's a, it's communism. But make it fashion.

[B]

Make it fashion. There you go. Gosh, you think like a writer and a poet, both of these things going on.

[A]

No, I, I have that as like a, A, a draft title for. It's it that, that's what it is like. It's the most horrifying combination of two things I was not particularly into in the first place. Although I did have a brief dalliance with communism like most students, but not most, many. But again, temperamentally, I just, it was just like, I don't really, I don't really believe you. Like. Yeah, you know what I mean? It's like that person who's like, I don't really, I just don't really believe you. Actually. I don't, I can't quite get there. I can't like this, I can't be. This is actually why also, even though I'm much more, I don't call myself an atheist anymore, I find it hard to describe myself. I find it hard to commit to converting and going through the whole process because I just, I can't quite come over the line for pretty much anything now.

[B]

Well, that's, that's the Gen X non conformist in you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I would say that the Irish in you is also working its way through, through your nervous system in a way like to make you, you know, stubborn Irish stubborn. But that's, you know, the Irish way and the European way. Although not now, I guess anymore.

[A]

Yeah, not anymore I was gonna say

[B]

is to be non conformist, but I feel like the conformity strain is so strong right now that there's not even that anymore. It's terrifying, actually.

[A]

It's terrifying. It's getting worse. It's becoming more unhinged and it, you know, Ireland is so weird because like I, it makes some sense as to why Americans went white liberal Americans went in for this sort of self flagellating position and they went all in on it. I think Americans, I think like being very generalizing obviously. But like when I, and I spent a lot of Time outside of America. So I feel like I've kind of observed it from the outside in Ireland, by the way.

[B]

I'm just.

[A]

That's right. I haven't lived in America since 2011. Yeah, yeah, okay. But Americans are incredibly nice. Like, they're the nicest people on the earth. They're helpful, they're nice, they really want to. They're idealistic. They want to see the best in people. And convincing that person that they have this kind of original sin has proved to be the most effective driver of, like, self to the point of self extinction. Right. But I mean, this is a common human thing. Like, people went to the wall for Stalin, shouting, viva. By Stalin, shouting, long live Stalin. So it's not. I mean, you can't eat. It's. It's obviously baked into our human nervous system or something. And, you know, but Ireland, like, Ireland, you know, doesn't have any of the. Of the baggage of history, like, zero. Of the baggage of history. Like, zero. And yet they are still at least the professional managerial class 100 in the tank with this idea that, you know, they owe it to people of color in this amorphous sense to take in infinity migrants. And, you know, they just had a Rose of Tralee contest, which was a. I forget where her country. Where. I was gonna say her country of origin, I would be chastised. Her country of origin is Ireland. I'm like, well, I mean, she's wearing a headscarf and she's black. So, like, not really, but I think maybe. I think. I don't think she was like, Middle Eastern. I think she was of African family and she has, like an Islamic name. And you're just like, this is not the Rosa Trelli people. Like, stop pretending, you know, but everyone is. It's like this. These liberals are, like, walking around in this sort of like, fugue state. Like, I really, really genuinely think of them as like a painting from the old days. Like, like from the renaissance of the damned. Do you know the kind of thing I'm referring to? Like, where the damned are in the background, like, like stricken and with these hollow eyes and like. Yeah, like, just confused but completely trapped. And that's how basically all liberals seem to me now.

[B]

Yeah, I was just writing about. Well, actually talking. I was. My net. I'm going to try to write this piece, but it's about the casting of Lupita Nyong' o in the new Odyssey movie. And it's such a funny thing because it's a struggle session. It's like they Put that out there. Christopher Nolan knows that he will be seen as a very high status individual for doing this because the idea is for him to look good. Goodness is. When we were growing up Gen X, goodness wasn't the goal. We were the opposite of that because we grew up under the Republicans and Reagan while in America. Yeah.

[A]

And.

[B]

And Christianity and everything. And so we were the kind of the opposite of the counterculture. We were subversive. We questioned authority. But in between the sort of Aaron Sorkinizing of politics and. And the good man that was Barack Obama, who became like a religious figure around the world. Like he's got the power of Gandhi at this point. Maybe more even. Yeah. And so to aspire to his level of goodness, everybody needs to do this, play this game where she's over 40. She, you know, you. Nobody could make the argument that she is the face that would launch a thousand ships. Unless, of course, you think of it in terms of controversy. Casting her. My launch a thousand ships in terms of getting people upset. You know, like, I don't know the story well enough to know that that's what they're doing. But just casting her or a trans person or anything is like a way to generate controversy. But what it really does is, it's like the masks during 2020 is if you're wearing a mask, you're on this side. If you're not wearing a mask, you're on this side. If you dare say one word about this casting, then you're over here and we're exposing all the racists, you know, because we're the good people who are trying to correct the problem of Hollywood. Exactly. Last hundred years. The problem that we made a lot of money off of. But it's not our fault. It's your fault, you terrible white people, because you're the ones who wanted to come and see our movies with white people. We are casting Lupita Nyong' O because we're good people. And you're going to want this. And if you don't, you're a racist. You know, that's a test. And they're the ruling class, right. And the ruling class, it's their version of let, let them eat cake. Even though she probably didn't really say that, but you know what I mean? Like, it's the version of the ruling class saying, just deal with it, peasants. You know, and it, it, it is a. It is a religion. It's a. It's an affliction. It's like you're saying that painting this mass formation of all of them, they conform. And nothing gives them more fulfillment than a situation like this where they can bloviate, you know, on Twitter or whatever. X write their sanctimonious essays and buy a ticket. Buy a ticket to the movie. Buy 10 tickets and then go on tick tock and say, I bought a ticket to see the Odyssey and Lupita Nyong' Go is beautiful. You know, this sort of moral superiority thing and What a mess.

[A]

I know, I know. I mean, I actually, that really, I. I remember hearing about it originally a few months ago when it came out that it was Lupita playing Helena Troy. And I was like,

[B]

all right.

[A]

I mean, the thing is, she is not particularly beautiful. She has an interesting face. She has a striking face, but she's not like. What was David Bowie's wife called? Or, I mean, yeah, there's. It's not like model beautiful, right? She's. She's like. She's not. She's just not. She's not. She's not even very womanly. She's quite bony and she's got short hair and all the. And it's like, I don't. And you know, so the skin color part of it was like. It made me roll my eyes, but it was more like. But why couldn't you. If you wanted to make her black, why couldn't you find a very beautiful

[B]

black woman or a 20 year old, you know, she's supposed to be 20. You think that back then they would. Look, you're dead by 40. Back then.

[A]

Right, exactly.

[B]

You know, I'm sorry to say it. Look, I'm an older woman. I wish this weren't true. I'm sorry, Demi Moore. I'm sorry, Madonna. I'm sorry that we age. I'm sorry that it's. You become invisible, but you do. It's biological. But by 40, you're not ever going to be the face that launches a thousand chips, even if you are black. And they, you know, the barely know any wrinkles on her beautiful face, her pretty face, whatever. But that's. That's not the point. The point is, beauty might be in the eye of the beholder, but when beauty becomes in the eye of a Oberlin grad, you know, majoring in gender studies, well, that was.

[A]

I was still considering going to see it and I saw the trailer and I love Matt Damon. As far as I'm concerned, Matt Damon, well, maybe he's made one movie that I found boring or something, but he really, to me, I, I will pay money to see Matt Damon, he's just one of those people I always enjoy. And then so I was like, okay, maybe I will. And Anne Hathaway, as annoying as she might be at her public pronouncements, she's a pro. She's an absolute pro. And she's always easy to watch. She's a great actress. And then I heard about the Ellen Page. I'm sorry, I don't. I don't recognize.

[B]

You're dead.

[A]

Naming. I don't recognize her.

[B]

Her.

[A]

Her, like delusion, you know? Poor girl. She. Anyway, I'm like Achilles then. I'm not. Okay. You're not? Nope, I am not. And I was very annoyed about it because I was actually. I love a room. I love a historical epic. I love it. And I love a sweeping Hollywood epic. I mean, they were so much fun to go see, remember?

[B]

I know, but, you know, I don't know that he's. Or she is. Whatever. What Ellen Page is in the movie, is it for sure?

[A]

Achilles.

[B]

But for sure.

[A]

I mean, okay, I. I mean, I've seen it reported several times. I don't. I mean, maybe. I. I think so, but I haven't fact checked it. Yeah, I mean, that's just a bridge too far.

[B]

But I see all these funny memes that are showing.

[A]

But.

[B]

But I don't know that that's the case. But it. It doesn't really matter. Just because the presence of Ellen Page, who was in Inception. The presence of a trans actor in a movie is a way to say you will conform to what we believe. We will ostracize you. And this is our. This is a struggle session. Which is exactly. Look, people aren't getting beaten and starved and sent to gulags like they did under Stalin, which was truly terrifying. Or the Cultural Revolution in China. It's. It's. It's our version of it. Right? It's all virtual.

[A]

It.

[B]

It is still painful and it's still weird and wrong to run a society, especially in a capitalist system, a profitable industry. You want people to want to see your movie, right?

[A]

Right.

[B]

That's not what they want. They're the ruling class, so they don't have to want that. He's got all the awards, all the money in the world. He doesn't need that. What he needs is nobility. He needs, like Steven Spielberg's west side Story or Martin Scorsese's Killers of the Flower Moon. Like, they make their woke Paul Thomas Anderson. One battle after another, they make their woke movie and they get the accolades for it inside the ruling class. Right? But right. What does it do?

[A]

Yeah, the trancing is just a hard no go for me because I'm never going to be able to lose myself in the, in the part because I know that this is a woman who had. Has been suffering under a delusion that caused her to cut off her tits. And like, I'm. You're just, you're just breaking the fourth wall at that point. Like, I can't. Like, I just can't. I cannot. I'll never be able to get behind. You've ruined your entire craft. Like you just have because, like, now I know that you're mentally ill. Why

[B]

would you think that, you know, if you were born in a man's body, why would you think cutting off your tits or whatever would make you a man? That doesn't do it, man. That's a heartbreaking costume.

[A]

I mean, of all the people who, who've become. Who the. Who were sort of the famous faces of the trans movement, she was by far the most disturbing. Very, very concerning how she changed from this kind of cute little ingenue to this brittle. I mean, she genuinely seemed as if she had gone. Do you know who she reminded me of in her early interviews when she was coming out as trans and she was working with the Human Rights Commission? Like a very dodgy organization, in my opinion. Something very wrong there. She reminds me of when in the Hunger Games PETA is freed from his imprisonment in the Capitol and after he'd been subjected to torture using tracker jacker. And remember, he's like, he's like. He's like febrile. He's like, like brittle. And like that's how she seemed like. I genuinely think it's that dark and I think it's that deep. Like they are being. There's. There's elements that are being that people are being taken aside and like these weird things are happening to them. Not sound like a conspiracy theorist, but when they present themselves to the world again, they look completely different. I mean, look at, look at someone like Demi Moore or Ozzy Osbourne's daughter or Madonna. Like you said, like you have become a monster and like your physical representation, you're asking me to overlook it, but I'm not going to because it's obvious. I can see with my eyes and,

[B]

and our inability to. To speak the truth. Now on the left is, you know, Terry Gilliam made fun of in what was the movie where he had the actress with her face stretched out and everybody made fun of it and laughed at it. But now we're Living that. And no one is allowed to say anything about it because it's offensive. You know, don't tell women what they're allowed to do. And she. If she makes her feel good, why not do it? And the thing about the trans celebrity is, like Warren Beatty's daughter who became trans. And early on, what they are online is not women, as we saw from the way J.K. rowling was treated. I was. I was for st. For standing up for J.K. rowling years ago. I was bullied horribly online. And. And a lot of those people are still coming after me, calling me a bigot every single day on Facebook. But the trans people on social media are elevated to sacred status. Women are not. So don't tell me trans women or women, until you get treated like, online, you're not a woman. And they say, well, we are being treated like by the. By the right, perhaps, but the left controls culture, so it's different. You know, there's a difference there. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

I mean, it just became like before, when people were acting in accordance with sort of like natural motivation, you know, which would be maybe they'd want to be good at their job or maybe they want to be rich and famous. Certainly not saying that they were good people, especially not in Hollywood, but they were acting in accordance with, I would say, rational motivations, whether that would be to, you know, again, to make themselves the famous star or whatever, or to be on auteur or whatever. Like, it was. It was. It was just like a natural process out of which the talented people would make good and great work that you could believe in. Right? You could, like, sit down in a cinema and be swept up in the story for 90 minutes. And then almost like someone turned a switch or someone sent out a memo. Everything became fake. Everything, like the fourth wall fucking disappeared. And now nobody could make anything. Not nobody, but most people can't make anything good anymore because the memo went out. And now everyone's looking awkward and shifting around, even talented actors. Suddenly you're like, like being, like, looking around like, am I. Am I doing this right? It's. It's like. It literally is like somebody sent out a memo.

[B]

Yeah, it's like Body Snatchers. So who isn't the one? And I watched it happen. I was part of it for a little while. And. And I want to talk about you. And when things started to really change for you dramatically to where you were out, you know, the, you know, the woke Hollywood thing, you know, I was talking about it at, like in like 2001, when I was saying how Halle Berry had not. Was the first woman to win the black woman to win the Oscar, and that was in 2001 and Oscar. So white didn't happen until 2013 or 2014. That's how long this thing was brewing.

[A]

Sorry, you said she wasn't the first black woman to win it.

[B]

Oh, she was.

[A]

She was. She was. Still is the only for best actor. Best actress. Actress.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Only one. Didn't. Didn't a black woman win? If we're gone with a win for supporting actress.

[B]

Yeah, supporting, but lead actress.

[A]

Right, Right.

[B]

Only one in 99 years. Which, you know, it's a shocking statistic. Yeah. Not that they changed anything, because it's not real power they're being given. It's. It's temporary power. It's. They're being used as shields, as symbols. It's not. Lupita Nyong' O is being a sacrificial lamb right now. That's not real power. No one's ever going to look at her and think, that's the face that launched a thousand ships. Never going to change that. Maybe they changed some younger people. Maybe. But young people have detectors, too. My nephew, he's, like, laughing about the Odyssey now, like it's a joke to him that it's so, so ridiculously performatively woke up. But the trans thing was a way for white kids mostly to become exceptional in this new woke order, really, where if you're black or if you're a person of color, you have status among the ruling class. And the only way to become that if you're white is to be something wrong with you. You know, it was really just an extension of the mental health thing that started in the 1990s. That, yes, got everybody on drugs and made everybody think that there was something wrong with their brains.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so it got all the way to. First it went through the whole child molester, then it went through rape, and it went through abuse, and it went through domestic violence. And then eventually it got to transgender ideology as a way to sell drugs and treatments and completely immoral and disgusting. And I'm happy that I sacrificed everything to fight for that and to vote for Trump. But so what was the thing that. I love that, and I'm not ashamed of that. I never will be. So they can keep coming at me if they want, but I. I know I'm on the right side. So with. With you, what happened? Like, let's hear the part where 2020, when that really started to break.

[A]

And.

[B]

And what. What price if Any. Have you paid for this? Oh, yeah.

[A]

Well, I mean, not really a price at all, I have to say, especially compared to people like you. But so 2020 came along. I, at that point, had a healthy, like, you know, I want to say hatred, but like a healthy disdain for hipster woke hipsters. I had a food business with my husband. So, you know, I was very much aware of them because they were, you know, there. They were relevant to what we did for a living. And I was like, oh, but, you know, I was. I just. I had no. I didn't. Wasn't doing any writing. I had no. I wasn't doing takes. I wasn't in the attention economy. I ran my husband's restaurant, social media, and worked there. You know, I worked in the restaurant. I was front of house. I, you know, whatever. And when Covet shut us down.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

For lockdown, I was like. At first, I was like, okay, okay, right, right, right. And then again, that. That instinct in me, that contrarian was like, I don't really know. Wait a minute. This kind of seems weird. Like, this is like what was really unsettling. It was like. It was almost on par with the moment when I turned on the television on 911 on my TV. And because of the antenna being out in the World Trade center, my. My TV was just snow. It's very similar. It was like a scary, scary movie moment. It was similar in that one day I just noticed that every hour, because I always had the radio on all the time I was in New York, I was always listening in America was always. As an NPR had on all the time. And I had BBC Radio 4 on, and then I had BBC Radio 6 on here. Music. Which musics? I couldn't take the Radio 4 nonsense anymore. But every hour was like. It wasn't. It wasn't. It was. No. There was no news. It was clearly like somebody reading propaganda. And so I would turn that off, and then I would go online and it would be the same phrases in all of the news outlets. And I was like. It was like Body Snatchers. It was like, oh, wait, this. You're. You know, you're suddenly looking at something that you. And then it was gone. And it was. Something was operating in its skin, in its place. And I was genuinely, like, just so unsettled by that. And then, you know what happens? You know what happened? Sasha, you're gonna love this. I came upon Steve Bannon being interviewed on Red Scare.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

And I listened to that, and it was like somebody gave me a glass of water in the desert. It was genuinely a g. It was a life changing hour and a half or however long it was, because the Red Scar girls were very familiar to me. Obviously, I'm quite a bit older than them, but I, you know, when I was a younger woman and I wasn't very into the cultural part, I wasn't like an art hoe. I was not interested in art or fashion, but I was, you know, I. You know, I hung out in bars with men and smoked cigarettes and gave, you know, funny takes on politics and culture. So I had that sort of social capital, I guess. And they're kind of familiar in that way and they're funny and I like them. But I listened to Steve Bannon and I was like, I cannot believe this is Steve Bannon. Because throughout 2016, I had noticed he was. He was all over the place, right? He was. He. He was so ugly. They were genuinely, like, filtering. Putting filters on his face to make him look more pockmarked and more, um. And listening to him, I was like, I'm sorry, this guy sounds like the left wing I wanted to be part of when I thought I wanted to be left wing. What the fuck is happening here? And it was. That was it. I just went to the Bannon's War room podcast, which at the time was still. I forget the name of it.

[B]

It wasn't something about COVID What was it?

[A]

It was Pandemic. No, but it was even before that because this was in April. This is like right at lockdown.

[B]

That. Was it a China thing before that?

[A]

No, it was a war room impeachment.

[B]

Oh, okay. War room impeachment. Oh, I wish I'd been around then.

[A]

And I basically, like, just gorged on Steve Bannon for the next six years. I'm still doing it. I'm still doing it because he was so first I was like. Again, my skepticism. I remember he did us. He did an episode where he talked about a. It had been. He said there was a. There had been a cable. And I don't know. I don't remember the year, let's say 2018, but I don't. It could have been a different year from the. I want to say the Beijing embassy, but maybe it was the consulate in Wuhan. Anyway, from. From the American missions in China. The American diplomats in China cabled home to D.C. to say that they were very concerned about safety in Wuhan lab. This was in April of 2020. And I was like. I remember. I remember it because I was in the bath and I was like, what? And I got out of the bath and I went online, and sure enough, that freaking Washington Post article was there. And I'm like, this is not a. Like, it just all that. It was just like, dominoes. It was just dominoes going. And it was like, everything, every single bit of it has been a lie. The last thing that I resist, the thing I resisted most, was actually getting behind Trump. But I got there eventually. Especially, you know, I was. You know, I still. I found him, like, a repellent. Like, my. He. He's repellent to my aesthetics. I hated. I hated, like, wrestling, and I hated cheesy crap. You know, Like, I'm like. I'm like an indigenous indicate. I was like, ew, gross. That's so lame. But, like, eventually, you know, it. It didn't. But in 2020, in the election, it didn't matter to me that I hated his aesthetics, and I still didn't trust him because thanks to War Room, I discovered what an absolute piece of human excrement Joe Biden and his family are. And so I was like, I will literally vote for Satan over Joe Biden. So I voted for Trump without any problem.

[B]

In 2020.

[A]

In 2020. But then in 2024, I voted for him, as the kids say, with my whole chest.

[B]

Yeah, there you go. Same. I. I voted for. I really wanted to vote for Trump in 2020, but I was still on the cusp. I was still clinging on to this identity I had before, and I had been Joe Biden's number one girl. I'd been the Nor, the most out. Like, how I am about Trump now was how I was about Joe Biden. And so I thought, you have to vote for him. You can't be that. You can't have gone through all this and then turn around and if you vote for Trump, your career is over. It's over. They'll find out. So I didn't, but I regretted it. And. Yeah, but I'm amazed that you got there way before me. I don't think I got there on Steve. Steve Bannon was also my, you know, ground zero. I think what happened with me was I watched a debate with him and somebody in Canada. I think there was a debate. I'm trying to think of who he debated, but it was about, oh, it was David from. But it was about fascism. And Bannon was so funny and so humble and so gracious and saying smart things. And I was just like, this isn't the guy that they said he was.

[A]

He is the most brilliant communicator. Of my lifetime.

[B]

Yeah, he's incredibly smart. I don't listen to his show as much now because, you know, I'm such a Trump loyalist at this point that I can't hear the other stuff at the moment. I just have to wait it out till we get to the midterms and then, you know, ride out this thing. And I don't want them to destroy Trump and devour him. That I've turned off the anti war, you know. Oh yeah, I've kind of turned up and I don't know what Bannon's talking about now.

[A]

So Banon is, I don't know. I, I, because I haven't been listening every day and not be, I mean, mostly because I'm trying to work on these other projects and I'm trying to be very disciplined with like, I can't, I just don't have time to listen to three hours of podcast a day.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. But he's a good one to have on in the background because it's, he's

[A]

a very good one to have on the background and he is the person I go to because again, this is not a comprehensive and up to date, but I remember in the, early in the war and I was, when I was seeing the same thing that you were seeing and I agree with you about the anti war stuff and I know what you've been saying on X about it and stuff. He was still, he was, he was the only one walking the line.

[B]

Right.

[A]

He was walking the line between I am anti war, this president said no wars, but he's still our president and we have to just make sure that, that it doesn't get out of control and we don't get dragged into something. He was clearly uncomfortable and he wasn't full throated endorsement of the war. But I think that's a good thing. I mean I, I think that's in general to have, you know, to have like that it made perfect sense to me to have him there as sort of like a, a wall, a buttress against getting too rah rah in, you know, on the other side.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I've never heard him so, certainly never heard him be anti Semitic. I have not heard him even criticize Israel too much.

[B]

Yeah, I, I know he has to walk.

[A]

I haven't heard him, I haven't heard him do that. I could have missed something, but I, I genuinely haven't.

[B]

No. Maybe I'll listen to War Room again.

[A]

I mean the guests, the guests he has on are a different story.

[B]

Marjorie Taylor Greene People like that. I, I know. I've been listening to him, you know, I, I know. I, I've always loved what he's done because I know he's a really intelligent, brilliant person, educated, you know, sophisticated in his own way. Not that he's portrayed that way, but I've always loved and respected him for giving a voice to the people. Exactly. People. Even if he didn't agree with them, even if he didn't like them, even if they sound dumb, even if some of their things are, you know, not exactly what you'd want. But he, you know, he's so. He's so broad in his design. Look, man, this guy won me over because he predicted that the Democrats would take the House and impeach Trump. He said it, like, right away, that's what's going to happen. And it did. And they didn't even need. They were looking for a reason to impeach him. I was a Democrat then, going along with it, but I recognized that he had predicted it. He also predicted. I have a video of him that I found from way back in the early Tea Party days where he's predicting how the elections are going to go. And he's gonna. He says. Exactly on this, which I'll insert here. He says the election's going to come down to a couple of hundred thousand votes in several swing states.

[A]

I tell you, a lot of people

[B]

are saying they're frustrated with the election, with our candidates, and they're saying they're not going to vote and that their vote doesn't count.

[A]

What do you say to people like that?

[C]

It's absolutely critical.

[B]

The whole.

[C]

This whole thing came down. I gave my shortened speech because the rank was about. This all is going to come down to a ground game. This is all going to come down to voter turnout. This is going to come out in places like Florida, North Carolina, Virginia, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, Colorado, a handful of states, and about 5 million people will determine the direction of the country. It is absolutely incumbent upon all of us that we have just as much hard work and just as much determination as we had in 2010. Remember, with no money and no support in 2010, the Tea Party won a huge victory. And that was all because people got off the sofa, went to a rally, found their neighbors, went to Facebook, got on Twitter, went to these sites, used social media with no money at all. We totally disintermediated, which is a fancy term for saying we moved the political parties out of the way and people took control of their own destinies. That has to happen. If you think, if you're frustrated, this is not going to happen in one election. We're in a, literally a 10 or 20 year struggle for the future, future of the country. And that's where you're just going to have to man up tough enough, just like our forefathers.

[B]

Right.

[C]

We're going to have to do exactly the kind of effort they had and we can win.

[B]

And he was so right. So I will always respect him because I know that he knows what he's talking about. The only reason I don't listen to him is because I'm so sensitive, not just to the Jew hatred stuff that's coming out now on the right, which has totally burned my relationship with Megyn Kelly, by the way. But like the, the anti Trump stuff, I got so much of it as a Democrat that I'm just, yeah, I'm allergic to hearing it now. I don't, I didn't know that he wasn't doing anti Trump. I assumed that he was. But knowing I haven't heard it, I haven't heard it.

[A]

I, I've been waiting for. I was, I, I often thought like, is this moment ever going to come come. Is this, is the breakup ever going to happen?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, and you see like a happy couple, like for years you're like, wow, they're really making it work. And then, then they have a horrible, brutal divorce. I was like, is this, this is. And to my knowledge it hasn't happened yet. But you know, and I try, I like of all the figures in this, of this time, he is the one who I was most sort of emotionally invested in in terms of like, okay, he, he became like a, a far. A father figure. Like I check. He's like my son.

[B]

He should have you on his show. He would absolutely love you.

[A]

Like, yeah, but like, but one of the reasons why like the way he has been for Trump, I am for him, like, I, like, I don't care what he, like, I'll defend him no matter what. And honestly the main reason for that is it's definitely not his love of Trump because I, this took me years to really get that. It is how he talks to his audience and no one else. And I worked in media and I've been in avid news consumer since I was a child. Not just as an adult since I was a child. And he has, I was a bestowed. But you know, he, he has returned to the audience their active role and the kind of honor that is their due. And no other journalist or writer or Politician or content creator has ever done that that I've seen in any kind of way. And he is consistent. Like, you know how you use all these little catchphrases and that whole thing. Agent or action, action, action. Use your agency. All of that stuff like that to me is a total game changer in the media landscape. Like, it fills me with hope. It gives me like it give. It makes me feel better about the world to know that that happened. I know it just like to me it's, it's just, it was, it's such a key and one of the main things that like really it was like in 2022 or 21, I forget who I listened to some lefty podcast. It might have been Pod Save America or something like that. And I don't do that often, but I listened to this thing and I just was. I wanted to like throw my computer at the wall. It was so. These two guys were so cynical and disdainful and, and just pathetic. Like everyone was stupid and everything was like wrong and like they sounded like bitchy, whiny girls. I'm like, you're grown ass men. Like, go get bent. Like how you have this huge platform. Have some dignity. Have some like spunk. Have some, I don't know, have some verb, some vim and vigor. And I just was like, again, it's a temperamental thing. It just was like, I despise you in my head that I was thinking and I was like, look at, just look at. This is the difference. This is what the right, this is what maga, not the right. This is what MAGA is presenting and this is what progressive left left is presenting. And I will go to the wall for MAGA as a result.

[B]

Same, same. That explains it all. And I, I always know there's going to be a time where they're going to catch on and they're going to realize that they're assholes. And why would anyone want to support or be around them? Why would anyone want to go to a party with them, let alone have them running the country? And they still haven't snapped out of it all these years later.

[A]

Can I ask you a question? Because I don't know these people. So I was in the media before, before Facebook. Like, I don't, like everyone I work with was a boomer. Like, I don't know who. I don't know what these people are. Like, are they really assholes in person? Because they show sure seem that way.

[B]

Well, they are. They come off that way because that's. That they want this war to be. This is a war, a civil war we've been fighting for 10 years, and because of Trump. And Steve Bannon knows where we are in history. He knows the fourth turning. He made a movie about it. He knows Trump is the great champion. That's why he won't give up on him. Steve Bannon was the person I was listening to the most as well. And when I heard Mark Halperin say that the most important people to Trump were Charlie Kirk, Tucker Carlson, and I think Don Jr. And leave out Steve Bannon, I thought, I don't think he has it quite right. And Charlie Kirk was getting all the credit for maga, for. For mobilizing, and he did a lot. Obviously, I love the man, and I'm. No disrespect to him, but I think people discount. And I'm so glad you brought it up. I think they discount. Bannon was ground zero for. For. For Trump and maga. Ground zero. He was the war room. And I always. And when they put him in jail, man, that was such an obvious thing to, like, destroy MAGA. They've been trying for 10 years to destroy it. He's still out there. I have never been more impressed with someone. Same. I'm getting a little emotional, but. But with Steve Bannon, how. He just came out fighting. He went in there, he taught the prisoner.

[A]

I know, I know.

[B]

And then he comes out days later, and he's like a lion.

[A]

I know. Still remember the remarks he gave before. Right. Upon turning himself in.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

I mean, it was. He's a general. He is the Napoleon. He is the. He is the.

[B]

Well, and he always says, Trump is cincinnatus. Like, he has that kind of knowledge where he can go back to Rome and talk.

[A]

Yes, he is Cincinnatus. And, like, he was just. To me, he's always pitch. Almost always. I can only think of one time where I was like, I think you're

[B]

gone a bit far.

[A]

I really. He's, like, pitch perfect. Because. Because you need. He needs we all. Everyone in this space. Because you're. It is a war. You're 100% correct. It is an actual war. I mean, it is, for now, an information war. Or, you know, I would go so far as, say, a spiritual war, but it's a culture war. It's an information war, but we are taking. Well, the right has taken actual casualties with the assassination of Charlie Kirk and the near assassination of Trump, but the left has taken casualties in terms of. It's destroyed the minds of a lot of people. Like, I. I would say they're like collateral damage. Like the TDS people who are, you know, but, like, it is an actual war, and in order to fight a war, you have to be able to rally the troops. You have. You have to calibrate the anger. Right. Which is what Bannon is good at and Tucker is no longer good at. Bannon calibrates the anger so that it's. It fires you up, but it doesn't have that, like, that, like, nasty, sort of like that, like, whingy bit. And it doesn't sound hysterical. It doesn't sound feminine. I don't. Not to insult women.

[B]

No. And that's.

[A]

Yeah, we're pretty fiery, but he never gets to that. He never hits that note. His. His note is always one of sort of self sacrifice. And as you put it, a lion is the perfect description.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Have you watched the Errol Morris documentary of Bannon?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

I mean, it was the perfect. It's the per. If you want to understand what happened, what the boomers did, just watch that documentary. Because Errol Morris is the liberal, artsy elite boomer and bat. And him trying to figure out Bannon is like. It makes Errol Morris look so bad and so pathetic and so weak. And you can see the respect for Morris drain out of Stephen. Steve Bannon's body as he's like, are you really not understanding me here? At one point he says, but I'm scared of you. I'm still scared.

[B]

Yeah, no, exactly.

[A]

And Bannon is just like, are you even a man?

[B]

Yeah. No, that's what I. The amazing thing about Steve Bannon is that's. That's a litmus test. If someone can listen to Steve Bannon and get what he's saying, then you know that they are outside the bubble. If they're inside the bubble, he will. He is like, to them, the greatest threat. One of the greatest threats. I like the fact that he flies under the radar now because they've got bigger fish to fry. Because Trump won, right? Trump won again. But Bannon hates Elon Musk. Right?

[A]

He hates that.

[B]

He hates a lot of the people who are around Trump. He would love to have Trump's ear again. I don't know if he does. He would love to have. But. But I think that he cares about the country even more than he cares about Trump. Like, if you listen to some of his stories, he was on this thing before Trump came along. He wasn't a Trump guy. He was a. He's a pop. Yeah. He's a tea Party guy. He's a, you know, he is a make America great again guy. Trump, he just recognized as the right sort of vessel because of all the charisma he has. And, and Bannon saw that with Sarah Palin. Bannon saw that with, With Trump. I am a banana ologist.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I only haven't listened to him in a while because of the, the war.

[A]

And I just didn't want to hear it.

[B]

I knew what he would think of it. I didn't want to hear it. But.

[A]

No, you. I think, I mean, again, I haven't listened in a couple weeks, but I think you can go in not. And not be. You might be. You might be a little bit reassured because again, like, you, You. I want, I want a news. Because it's a new show. I want a news show that is going to tell me more than one point of view. I do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I want, I want there to be disagreement. I just don't want to be lied to and I don't want to be propagandized. And I mean. Yeah, we're being lied to is such an understatement. Like, there's no word strong enough that I can come up with for. Well, I can, actually, but it's crazy.

[B]

It's.

[A]

They're casting spells. Like, that's how it seems. They're spell casting with these. I mean, the, the narrative spinning and the, the way they, Their delivery and you know, the, the camera is an incredibly powerful medium of like, news. News flash. We all know that. Jenny. Thank you. Thank you. It's 19. It's 1912. Like that. Like. But it's. So if you watch it in action and if you. Now. The most horrifying example of it now is Candace Owens. Like, good Lord. He has this dark female energy, like this malevolent thing that reminds me of the witch in Sleeping. Or the. Sorry, the stepmother. Is it the stepmother? Sleeping Beauty? No, the witch is a witch. Right.

[B]

No, she's all the queen.

[A]

The queen. The queen. Mirror, mirror on the wall. That one that, like, when she looks into the camera, I mean, it's literally spellbinding.

[B]

She is incredibly captivating to watch without.

[A]

She is. I mean, I can't. Because I'm like. Again, I get that.

[B]

Like, either.

[A]

Oh, I'm getting like. I don't like to get the. But like the. But I can see it even in a split second, you can see it the way she. Yeah. And she's changed a little bit. She has much more of an affect. She's not as natural as she used to. Be when she was. And she was charming and like, interesting when she was that, but now she's something else. But it's like that, that ability. I mean, we. We are complete, completely helpless at like, psych, psychically, it seems in general against, like, the dark female energy, like, like malevolent female energy that is really, really strong. And it's not. It's not political. It's pre political. It's, it's. I mean, it's very human, but it also definitely feels like otherworldly sometimes.

[B]

It's ancient and it's ancient. Women know. Women know. And there's been a lie this whole time since, like, the. Me too, and everything to, to put, you know, there was a Steve Martin joke which was, I like to put women on a pedestal high enough I can see up their dress. Like, this idea of putting women on a pedestal. In our generation or in my era, people understood that that was wrong, that women aren't, you know, women are vicious. If you just go online, the most vicious people are women. And so you asked me, and I pivoted back to Steve Banham, but you asked me, are they assholes in real life? Liberals are nice to you if they think you're one of them. Like, for instance, I live in a town, a small town in California that is like the embodiment of if Blue sky was a town like it is.

[A]

So, you know, how do you do it?

[B]

Well, I have to be here because of my mom. My mom is sick, and so I've been living up here for. For a while to take care of her when she needs it, but I keep to myself. It's just that they all think. And I got into trouble because I got on the nextdoor app and I used my real name and I started being MAGA on there, and they were so horrible to me, they ended up kicking me off the app. So now I live in fear that the people I see on the. On my walks every day with my dogs are going to know me and know my name and know that I'm. I think my neighbor knows and that's why she won't talk to me anymore once they find out. Like, you can't wear. You couldn't wear a MAGA hat in this town. No way you'd be considered. It's like they. They see it like a Nazi walking through a town. So they're not. It's not that they're mean people. It's that they have been propagandized and they're not strong enough to break out of it, it's really as simple as that. You can try and tell them, look, you're in a bubble. They'll say, I'm not in a bubble. I watch Fox News sometimes. Yeah, they click in for a couple of minutes and they click out. They get the confirmation they need that these are the bad people over there that don't agree with us, but they don't understand that they're in this bubble, this insulated, isolated bubble. And unfortunately, it's all of American society in the bubble with them. That's the hard part. So this war we're fighting is a war for the future. Is this what America is going to be? They'd be the Obama, you know, faction of the Democrats, would be perfectly happy to have all of us exiled to gulags, virtual gulags. It doesn't even have to be real gulags because they've already sequestered us out of culture. If you listen to advertising on, like, a popular. It's so surreal. I was listening to this podcast called Love Trapped, which is totally cheesy about the Bachelor getting, like, framed by this girl who faked her pregnancy. Very juicy, very tabloidy. And that's fun there. Yeah, Aimed at, like, I would say normal, but I mean aimed at liberal women. And it's all the big brands, right. And if you go to, like a right wing podcast, you listen to the advertisers on there. What the.

[A]

My pillow.

[B]

My pillow. Or like, you know, things you've never heard of. Black rifle, coffee, cowboy colostrum, you know, steak and this is what they think of you. But you go over there and it's like the majors, you know, and, and you can tell cultural divide that way. It's really easy. But you're not allowed in unless you agree. And that is, to me, 1984. So, you know, God bless Steve Bannon for fighting the good fight, and I hope he keeps fighting it. I know he knows what the stakes are. Yeah, but that's why the, the Trump thing, they can't. They can't win, they can't destroy him, which they're going to try to keep doing, so.

[A]

They are. They are. I mean, that last one the other day, as preposterous as it was, as he was as a, as a character. I think I said him. I wrote a sub segment about it. I think I said he was more reading Rainbow than Day of the Jackal, I guess. Literally never seen a more pathetic, pathetic assassin in my entire life. You're genuinely an embarrassment to the trade of assassin. Like, Jesus, Christ, you're an embarrassment. But, you know, at the same time as I was, I mean, I, I genuinely do. Like, this is another thing that I think helped me is that I have a very, I'm very quick to laugh. Like, I have a very high heightened sense of the absurd. Like, very much so. And I, like, I was laughing. I was genuinely, truly, hilariously entertained by this guy's manifesto. And then as I was laughing, I was just there like, huh, this is so silly. This is so silly. It's so silly. And then I just had that feeling like when you know something is true in your bones and it's unpleasant and an unpleasant truth. And it was like a genuinely chilling moment where I went from being like, lame to being. They're just gonna keep going until they kill him. And then it was just like, all my, all the humor stopped, all the laughing stopped. And I was like. And you just have that moment of just like, okay, I mean, you know it. And then you, you can think something intellectually and then suddenly you just, you know it in your bones. And then that's different. It's not, it's not a pleasant experience, but it's like the stakes literally couldn't be higher. I, I mean, I, I, you know, I, for someone who used to was briefly a member of the socialist workers 6, or was it 97? And for someone who grew up around lefties, and I grew up around so many lefties. I grew up around left wing terrorists. Like, I grew up around all sorts of people. Like, I don't know if there's any, like, bottom to my loathing and hate of communism and commies.

[B]

Yeah, same.

[A]

And it's like, I'm not even really a conservative. I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm conservative in comparison to, you know, mainstream discourse. But, like, I'm not as much of a conservative as I am a hater of commies.

[B]

No, I, I get that.

[A]

That's.

[B]

And that's 1984. And it frustrates me to no end that people on the left try to pretend like they're the ones living 1984 because they don't understand the book.

[A]

There's not the kicker. It really is not the absolute kicker.

[B]

Nuts. It drives me nuts when they use the word fascist when they're closer to fascism. Now they're the ones that are demanding everybody conform. But at the same time, I, I don't feel like a conservative either, because I hear conservatives talk about the things that matter to them and that they're willing to throw Trump under the bus because of those things. I'm like, are you insane? Do you realize that you. He's the only person that is clinging to life, giving you any power or representation at all right now. When he's gone, it's done, it's over. They're taking back power. It's so big and so all consuming. Like Barack Obama out there with James Talarico and with Zorhan Momdani rising up saying, I'm still leading this party. That's why it'll be Kamala, by the way. He'll never agree to pick Newsom. He doesn't want another male taking over the party. The only people that are allowed to lead are Obama stand ins like Joe Biden, like Kamala Harris, like Hillary Clinton. You know, he, he's not. Or Zorhan or, or James Talarico. Anybody who's made in the image of Obama is allowed to lead. Gavin Newsom isn't because he's kind of unpredictable. Like no one really knows he's, you know, to really break through this, you'd have to be able to undo Obama. You'd have to be able to break the Obama coalition. That's where all the woke stuff comes from. That's where all the, you know, totalitarianism is.

[A]

Is Obama a true believer or is it just for power?

[B]

Both. But I think for him, my own opinion, and you can tell me what you think is that he's treated like a God. And once you're treated like a God, it's really hard to give that up. And that he resents it, that it was Trump, of all people, Trump, who insulted him and offended him. He, I think in an embarrassing, sad way, really just wants the love of the people. Obama, and he's very territorial. He wants America to be what he said it was. And they all want that. Right? They don't want America to be free. Right. But the pendulums are moving anyway. Everything's changing. For instance, we were just talking about Christopher Nolan and the Odyssey. Well, look, AI is coming, chasing right behind them. And AI can do. AI is not held to politically correct standards. They don't care. They'll just make the movie and people will watch it. And the more freedom AI has, the, you know, the, the weaker Hollywood will start to look. Because AI, they just sort of, you can see by those Spencer Pratt ads, they give the people what they, the message they want to deliver, regardless of whether it's politically correct. That's evolution. So I have no doubt that things are changing. I am probably too old to See that change. You're not. But bookmark this, because in 20, 30 years, I don't know who's going to win this war right now. It's going to take a lot to deprogram the mindset of the left. They think the same of the right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Hear him say, what are we going to do with all these Trump voters when we went. When we take back power?

[A]

And they.

[B]

Their plans could not be more terrifying. They want to pack the Supreme Court. They'll definitely open the border. No question about it. That's what they want. Now. They feel like because Trump's done these things, that they're justified to do whatever they want. So if MAGA loses their grip, if they. If they are so insane with their Jew hate that they decide to divide the party, I'm sorry for. For the future. I'm sorry for the, you know, for the people who have to grow up in such a country. However, the good thing is that the pendulum is swinging away from them. It might not be political, it might be cultural, but it is swinging, and it's going to take time.

[A]

I agree, actually. I. I mean, I wouldn't. My optimism is based on nothing. Like, I mean, I'm saying that, like, I just. I've always. I've been in these situations where I'm like, I think it's really nice here. And then, like, a bomb will go off, like, literally. So, like, I, you know, don't trust me on this one. Like, this is not one. This is not something you want to bet the farm on. But I just. I mean, I know young people, and I know. I mean, I don't know that many because, you know, I only have. I have one kid, so I know a handful of young people, and honestly, they are solid. They're solid. They're not like millennials. I mean, like, they are more solid. And I love. That's why. And I haven't read the Fourth Turning, but I've listened to your podcast about the Fourth Turning. We should. Probably shouldn't get into it, but, like, I'm very interested in these generational paradigms, and I can see that there are probably going to be enough young men. I mean, it's going to be very hard, and it's gonna. I think they're gonna suffer. Who can, like, take the franchise back, essentially?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, I think one of the things if I, you know, anytime on. Especially on my YouTube, which is much bigger. It's funny because I started my YouTube, like, only a few months ago, and it's, like, much Bigger than my subset, which I started six years ago, saving culture from itself.

[B]

Thank you. Go find it.

[A]

But like, I get millennials writing in and young people writing in, which thrills me. Of course it thrills me because I'm just like, I'm just over here in substack with all the boomers. But the. They're out there. They are out there just like their Gen X was. Like, there's way more Gen X people than I realized who were anti woke. I didn't realize that until Trump won the election in 2024. There's a lot of young people who are either overtly anti woke or just want to live a normal life and are just like turned off, like, by the creepy mess, gross cultural messaging. And they just don't. They're just ignoring it. They just ignore it. And if you're lucky enough to be able to go through life without butting up against it in the form of bureaucracy, like at a school or at a job, then you're going to, you're going to be fine. I mean, you're going to be okay. I don't know. Fine. Economics is another issue. But like, and I think that there's a lot of people. I, I do think there is a silent majority, a sizable silent group anyway,

[B]

if it's a majority, I would say so. I know that just from talking to my daughter's friends who are, you know, in their mid-20s and stuff, that quietly and secretly they all do hate the woke stuff and they are just too afraid to say so out loud. That's really the truth. The people that are, that are perpetuating it are the older millennials on the left, most of them women. After the Great Feminization, it really did, because it's sort of like they're, they're being perpetually mothered by society. Mothered and the liberalism, it all stems from the mental health revolution of the 1970, 1990s. And that's the thing I get from being in my town, is that these are people who are, who worked so hard to become sort of serene and emotionally okay and healed from trauma. And just when they thought they had it all worked out, Trump comes along and disrupts it with real human stuff, offensive stuff. You know, he's very male. He's, he's, you know, unapologetic about it. And, and it really wreaked havoc on the, the mental health of all of these women because they don't.

[A]

That's such a good way of putting it.

[B]

It's all been, you know, they're you know, they thought. They thought they were okay. And so you see them still trying to manage their trauma and trying to be emotionally okay with and all the different ways that they might. This town is all about, like, sound baths and yoga and Pilates, but also, you know, how to get serene, how to be relaxed. You know, how to take your adaptogens, to be smart and to have your memory work and everything is healing and fixing.

[A]

Isn't this like. Isn't this just perfect for good satire?

[B]

Yes. And then they won't perfect. They won't satirize it, and they're just ripe for it. Like Saturday Night Live won't touch it.

[A]

Oh, my God. It's such a. It's such a waste of good content, really. I mean, it really is, like.

[B]

Right?

[A]

I mean, it's so extreme. It's so caricature. Ish.

[B]

It is. But you know who did it was Woody Allen in the film Sleeper. If you go back and watch.

[A]

Oh, I love that movie.

[B]

Exactly what's happening today. The only difference is the Underground and Sleeper are communists, because he was sort of taking it from 1984. Ish. But the ruling class that are in a bubble in Sleeper that Diane Keaton is a part of, that's what we're living now. And. And it's so great because you'll love this as there's a scene where Diane Keaton comes home and she's with her boyfriend, and she's like, I wrote a poem today, and it's this terrible poem. Woody Allen makes fun of her. And in the poem, it's like she says, a butterfly turns into a caterpillar. And the guy corrects her and he says, wait, no. The caterpillar turns into a butterfly and she flips out. She has this total. And then he calms her down and they do this orb, and they're all like, everything steady and safe. But no, Harold, I wrote a new poem today.

[A]

You didn't. Yes, I did.

[B]

Okay. A little boy caught a butterfly and said to himself, I must try to understand my life and help others. Not just mothers and fathers, but friends, strangers too. With eyes of blue and lips full red and round. But the butterfly didn't make a sound for he had turned into a caterpillar. By and by. It's deep. You're so obviously influenced by McCune.

[A]

Uh.

[B]

Do you really like it?

[A]

Only one thing.

[B]

They change from caterpillars into butterflies. Not the other way. They do. They do. Damn it. Damn it. Damn it.

[A]

I always get that wrong.

[B]

But relax, relax. I Could just talk to this. No, not the.

[A]

Holy being spoiled.

[B]

Spoiled. And I'm getting a headache anyway.

[A]

Shoot. I hate to be wrong. Luna, now sit down.

[B]

Sit down, Luna, sit down. Sit down.

[A]

Come on, sit down. It'll be all right, I promise. Now just relax.

[B]

I was having so much fun.

[A]

Come on.

[B]

That's better. And now channel 1200 leads the air until tomorrow morning. Our leader wishes you all a pleasant good night. There's this whole other world outside of it. You know, he had it totally nailed in that movie.

[A]

So I'll go back and watch it again.

[B]

Yeah, you'll see. You'll see. They even have a funny scene where they show up at this party and one guy's wearing, like, a swastika. That'd be cool. He didn't know how much he could read the future. Wow. But yeah.

[A]

Yeah, no, it's such a good way of putting it. That's exactly what it is. Is like these.

[B]

And.

[A]

And it makes sense as to how the. The people have been so destabilized. I think for the men, especially the media men. The thing that I notice that I find I. I find actually even more intolerable than that. I find the. The women in their sound baths kind of funny and sweet, actually. But the. The men who think, oh, no, no, we're the smart guys. Like, they're like the nerds in high school who cannot tolerate this blow to their ego that someone who they perceived as dumb because he had, like. He was like, working class coded, you know, he was the tacky. What was that great? That was. I think it was meant as an insult. But Trump is what a poor man thinks a rich man is like or something. His. His gaudiness and his boorishness are intolerable to the liberal men because they were bullied by those guys in high school and got away and went to a Ivy League school and now are like, think they're all fancy and they can't tolerate, like. Because I honestly, there's two. Two shows from the 90s that I. The first time I watched each one, I thought they were pieces of trash and I had a really strong hating hate reaction against them and then eventually succumbed to their charms. One was the West Wing and two was Sex and the City. And both of those things ruined America.

[B]

I know. For real. Especially ruined America. The West Wing, I give you that, that one, that Sex and the City two, that. That Sex and the City mindset and especially the sequel, the remake was like, totally so woke you could. Nobody could. Even the woke couldn't Stand it. But I try to think as you're talking, like think of our country as high school and try to think of any man on the left that is higher than Obama is there. So if that's the alpha male, right, this kind of soft, intellectual, cool guy, but soft, let's face it, you know, the mom jeans and you know, no scandals. And he's a good, you know, husband or whatever cultural. Puts out his film lists every year. And try to think of any guy on the left, any major celebrity or politician or anything that is above that, right? So that's their standard. They have to be. Obama is their alpha male. And on the right, look at all the alpha males, right?

[A]

It's like a real. It's like a band of pirates.

[B]

I once wrote this or tried to write this sci fi novel back like before 2019, like that's how long ago it was. I wrote 400 pages of it because I could see that the left was in this mode of trying to perfect themselves. And I was thinking, where does this gonna end up? Like, is it ever going to be fine? Like, are we ever going to be perfect? Have we ever got enough of the right supplements and enough of the right exercising and enough of the de aging? And so I wrote this book and it was about. Supposed to take place 100 years in the future. This is actually how I got red pilled a little bit. Oh no. It's how I became a fanatic political activist online for the left. And in that book, everything in the blue state area would be totally controlled by AI. Totally controlled. Everybody's medicated, everybody's connected to the same medication and you're monitored all the time. And when your mood gets a little bit unstable, they quickly stabilize it and it's, you know. But the funny thing is because fertility has completely disappeared, the women go to the red states to get laid and to get pregnant.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Because that's where all the wild men are. The real men are out in the red states, which I call them. And so I always think of that like, honey, you know, what are you gonna do? Like sooner or later men are just going to be eunuchs already. Right? That's so good.

[A]

I wish. So you should get that. You should self publish that book. No, because like honestly, the. I wasn't gonna say. There's something you were saying there. Oh yeah. The, the, the. This pursuit of sort of like the perfect person, the perfect health, the perfect this. The, the seamless and

[B]

like a life

[A]

with no bumps and no discomfort.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You end up, you End up transing your own children. That's where. That's exactly where that leads to. That. That it. That is such a weird and creepy and

[B]

un.

[A]

Unhuman view worldview. That what you end up thinking you can be then kind of soothed into thinking, oh, yes, yes, maybe my son should have his cock and balls cut off. That maybe that is the right course of action because he's having these feelings. Oh, you can't have any feelings. Like, feelings used to be ignored.

[B]

The euphoria. Payback is so high initially that, you know, I got this new little doggie from. From a hoarding situation, they say, from a shelter. And his whole personality is, am I doing it? Am I doing okay? Am I doing the right thing? You know, and I praise him all. That's what the trans kids are like. They're like, am I okay now, Mommy? You know, am I okay? And they don't dare say, I regret what I've done to myself. They don't dare disrupt this, you know, euphoria circle of like, yes, we've. You finally been elevated. You've been, you know, transitioned, but you've been elevated. You are now a special elevated person. And by extension, so am I. I'm the good mommy who's standing by you. This is my trans kid. I'm out here fighting for my. And that gives me status, that gives me importance. And it's so wrong, and it's so sad that it got physical. I mean, it's like lobotomies. It's like eugenics. It's worse mistake. And they're not, obviously, if Ellen Page is in the Odyssey, they're not turning this thing around. You know, we're all to accept it, and. And if we don't, we're bigots, and there's something wrong with us. They're not Gavin Newsom's. None of these politicians on the left have even started the conversation of this is morally wrong. You need conservatives for that. Right, yeah, that's right. They only believe in. Morally wrong is like, you know, what we call racism or what we call, you know, that's what the left thinks of as morals. The identity, the morality drawn from identity as opposed to right. A higher power, for instance, which is what the right. Yeah, right. Exactly.

[A]

Yeah. No, just when you were saying something like that, I was like, something. A light like that. I forget exactly what it was, but that was my thought. Like, actually, Christian faith fixes this. I mean, although it doesn't, actually, because we know lots of Christian denominations have gotten on board with Especially the transing thing. There is like, there is literally no, there is no world view, there is no culture, there is no saying. There is no firewall against it. I really just think it's like a person to person, like, it's hand to hand combat that to like make sure you can not be zombified by woke. But you were saying something about that. Like, like the thing that I, I appreciate so much about Christianity, you know, my, like, limited, very shallow, you know, reading of it. Like, I don't have a religious education, but it is this. The, the, the reason, the, the reason that I actually do believe now in a Christian God is because when you hear the stories like the, the, you know, the foundation, the Adam and Eve story in particular and the Jesus story and his death in particular, there's something so intensely simple about it. Like, it's like they've pared it down to the fewest possible words that yet express the largest possible feeling. So that's what, that's what kind of draws me in. But then the way it treats humanity as fallen, which used to seem like a bad thing to me but now is like genius. Like, again, I don't have a word strong enough to express how good it is because you're not supposed to be perfect, you're not supposed to be comfortable, you're not supposed to be happy. You can, you can have temp. Like you were saying something about this temporal. That's what it was. You can pass through those in and out of those states, but you know, directing back all glory to God and accepting the trials and tribulations of life and using that glory to God as the, as something of a, of a buttress against the worst in life. And that to me is like, oh, that worked. That like, that works. That is like, that is like narratively perfect. It feels emotionally like again, like you can feel it in your bones.

[B]

Is that a little doggy I hear?

[A]

Yes, that's my Bobo. He wants my we.

[B]

I won't take too much money. But just quickly on Christianity, like, I wear this cross around my neck here, this little tiny cross, because for me those dark nights of the soul only had one possible way out. And that was. And even though I am a skeptical person, raised as an atheist, my mother hates Christianity. She hates all religion. And so part of me feels like a phony. But so what? I try to talk to, to God every night, even though the left would mock me for this. It is the most beautiful thing to know that this religion is based on this Jesus person who I'm sorry. Jesus Christ. God, who forgives you and loves you. And that to me is amate. The thing I need to hear. Nobody loves me. Oh, no way. And I know how it sounds to my friends who's like, who is this crazy person? I get it. But look, you spend one night trying to go to sleep like me, and you'll get it. You'll get it. I'm not saying I'm, you know, on my knees in India in the caste system, suffering. I don't have cancer. I'm not dying, but I am all alone, except for my doggies. And that thing is a beautiful thing. And I can see why Christianity is so popular, you know, because if you have nothing else, you have God. You have somebody who loves you. You know, it's amazing. So I didn't mean to get all God on you, but.

[A]

No, I think it's beautiful. I think it's a perfect place. Yeah, yeah. To end it. Sorry not to direct your show, but.

[B]

No, it's okay.

[A]

I get it. I can't top that. I can't top that. That. Actually, I don't want to. I want to leave it there.

[B]

All right, now listen, you guys go to Jenny's substack. What's the. The URL.

[A]

So it's Jenny E. Holland, substack.com. and yeah, I didn't change. I didn't. I. I left it. My name, not the name of the ch. It is called saving culture from itself. But my YouTube is at saving Culture from itself as well.

[B]

Okay, so check and godaddy and see if that domain is taken. Saving Culture from itself. And if it isn't, just take it and turn your substack into that URL. That'll help you with your idea.

[A]

You're the Internet. You're the Internet OG guru. I definitely need to listen to your advice.

[B]

Check it out. Your substack with an easy name is easier for people to find. And it was great talking with you.

[A]

And we'll do it again, Sasha. We'll definitely do it again. Let's do it on the regular.

[B]

Sam.