Best Of: Al Pacino / Saoirse Ronan

Summary

Fresh Air: Best Of – Al Pacino & Saoirse Ronan

Fresh Air, hosted by Terry Gross and produced by NPR’s WHYY in Philadelphia, is renowned for its in-depth and intimate conversations with prominent figures in the arts and public life. In the "Best Of" episode featuring Al Pacino and Saoirse Ronan, listeners are treated to compelling discussions that delve into Pacino’s illustrious acting career and his new memoir, as well as Ronan’s nuanced performances in her latest films. This summary captures the essence of their conversations, highlighting key points, notable quotes, and insightful reflections.

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Interview with Al Pacino

Al Pacino, a legend in the film industry, joins Terry Gross to discuss his new memoir, Sonny Boy, and reflects on his iconic roles, particularly in The Godfather series. The conversation navigates through his transformative journey as an actor, his personal struggles, and his enduring legacy in cinema.

Early Life and Personal Struggles

Pacino opens up about his challenging upbringing in the South Bronx, raised by a single mother with limited financial resources. He shares poignant memories from his childhood, illustrating how these experiences shaped his resilience and depth as an actor.

Al Pacino (03:03): "I went into therapy for the next... [46:42]"

His memoir, Sonny Boy, serves as an autobiographical account, chronicling his life from humble beginnings to stardom. Pacino discusses the profound impact of discovering his parents' separation and how uncovering these family dynamics later in life led him to seek therapy, addressing unresolved trauma from his early years.

Transformation in The Godfather

A significant portion of the interview focuses on Pacino’s portrayal of Michael Corleone in The Godfather series. He revisits a pivotal scene in The Godfather I where Michael emerges as a hardened leader, ultimately taking over the family business.

Al Pacino (07:00): "Players couldn't get a drink at the table."

Pacino describes the meticulous process of embodying Michael Corleone, emphasizing the subtlety required to convey power without overt gestures.

Al Pacino (08:08): "It works."

He highlights the importance of controlled body language in portraying a character’s authority and menace, referencing advice from fellow actor Michael Caine about maintaining stillness to project power.

Challenges During The Godfather II

Discussing The Godfather II, Pacino reveals the difficulties faced with the initial script, which he deemed subpar. His persistence, alongside contributions from director Francis Ford Coppola, led to substantial rewrites that enhanced the narrative’s depth and coherence.

Al Pacino (21:16): "It was a great script."

He candidly shares how the intense filming period coincided with his personal struggles, including battling alcohol addiction and reliance on Valium. Despite these challenges, Pacino’s dedication and natural talent enabled him to deliver a stellar performance, solidifying his status as a cinematic powerhouse.

Al Pacino (24:58): "It had to."

Reflecting on the emotional toll of the role, Pacino acknowledges the difficulty of emotionally shutting down to portray a character becoming a "monster."

Legacy and Reflections

As the interview draws to a close, Pacino expresses gratitude for his enduring career and the opportunity to continue influencing the film industry through his work and memoir.

Al Pacino (26:39): "Thank you so much for talking with us."

His reflections offer a glimpse into the complexities of his journey, balancing personal demons with professional triumphs, and the unwavering passion that fuels his iconic performances.

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Interview with Saoirse Ronan

Saoirse Ronan, a four-time Oscar nominee, discusses her versatile acting career and her roles in two new films: Blitz and The Outrun. Her conversation with Terry Gross explores the depth of her characters, the preparation involved, and her personal connections to the narratives she portrays.

Exploring New Roles: Blitz and The Outrun

Ronan delves into her character in Blitz, a World War II drama directed by Steve McQueen. She portrays Rita, a mother striving to protect her young son amid the chaos of German bombings in London. The role required her to embody the resilience and fear inherent in the wartime setting.

Saoirse Ronan (40:53): "I think it was the first time that I had been exposed to an addiction story that didn't feel like it was all doom and gloom."

In The Outrun, Ronan takes on the role of Rona, a young woman battling alcoholism. The film, based on Amy Liptrot's memoir, follows Rona’s journey to sobriety, including her move back to her family’s sheep farm in Scotland. Ronan discusses the emotional and physical demands of portraying a character grappling with addiction.

Saoirse Ronan (41:23): "I was thrown straight onto the Orkney mainland, and I had my hand up a U and was pulling a lamb out."

Authentic Preparation and Immersive Techniques

Ronan emphasizes the immersive preparation required for her roles. In Blitz, she physically engaged in sheep farming, learning to handle live animals and adapting to the unpredictable nature of the work.

Saoirse Ronan (43:31): "I actually went on a sheep farm and pulled a lamb out seven times."

Her dedication extended to enduring challenging weather conditions to authentically depict her character’s experiences, showcasing her commitment to delivering genuine and relatable performances.

In The Outrun, Ronan discusses the delicate balance of portraying addiction without it defining her character entirely. She sought to present a nuanced depiction, highlighting both the struggles and the underlying humanity of someone battling substance abuse.

Saoirse Ronan (52:00): "The more difficult the role, the more... you go the other way in your preparation because you got it all in you now."

Accents and Linguistic Versatility

A notable aspect of Ronan’s craft is her mastery of accents. She explains how growing up in a multicultural environment, particularly in New York City, fostered her ability to adopt various accents seamlessly. This linguistic flexibility has allowed her to embody diverse characters across different films.

Saoirse Ronan (49:48): "It's not dissimilar to being bilingual."

Ronan reflects on the challenges and rewards of maintaining her authentic voice while performing in different accents, ultimately finding fulfillment in embracing her natural intonations in her recent work.

Saoirse Ronan (52:03): "I've gone through a period over the last few years where I've really enjoyed using my own."

Personal Connections and Emotional Depth

Ronan shares a personal connection to her roles, particularly in Blitz. Her relationship with her own mother informed her portrayal of Rita, infusing the character with genuine emotion and vulnerability.

Saoirse Ronan (44:51): "I couldn't really pass up. I'm incredibly close to my own mother... that dynamic is something that I've always wanted to bring to life on screen."

Her openness about her motivations and the emotional labor involved in her performances provides listeners with a deeper understanding of her dedication to the craft and her ability to convey profound human experiences.

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Concluding Insights

The Fresh Air episode featuring Al Pacino and Saoirse Ronan offers a rich tapestry of narratives that underscore the resilience and dedication inherent in the acting profession. Pacino’s reflections on his storied career and personal battles reveal the layers behind his legendary performances, while Ronan’s exploration of complex roles in Blitz and The Outrun highlights her commitment to authenticity and emotional depth.

Both artists emphasize the importance of personal experiences in shaping their portrayals, whether it’s Pacino’s tumultuous upbringing influencing his intense characters or Ronan’s intimate connections to her roles inspiring her nuanced performances. Their conversations illuminate the intricate balance between personal struggles and professional achievements, showcasing how their lives and careers are intricately intertwined.

Notable Quotes

• Al Pacino (08:08): "It works."
• Saoirse Ronan (43:31): "I actually went on a sheep farm and pulled a lamb out seven times."
• Saoirse Ronan (49:48): "It's not dissimilar to being bilingual."
• Al Pacino (24:58): "It had to."

These quotes encapsulate the essence of their discussions—Pacino’s pragmatic approach to acting and Ronan’s immersive commitment to her roles, further enriching the listeners’ understanding of their artistic processes.

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Fresh Air continues to excel in providing deep, thoughtful conversations that resonate with audiences, offering a window into the lives and minds of some of the most influential figures in the arts.

Transcript

[Terry Gross]

Support for this podcast and the following message come from Autograph Collection hotels with over 300 independent hotels around the world.

[Al Pacino]

Each exactly like nothing else, Autograph Collection.

[Terry Gross]

Is part of the Marriott Bonvoy portfolio of hotel brands. Find the [e-mail].

[Al Pacino]

From WHYY in Philadelphia, I'm Terry Gross with FRESH AIR Weekend. Today, Al Pacino talks about the Godfather and about growing up in the South Bronx with a single mother, little money and friends who never made it out alive. He has a new memoir. Also, we hear from Saoirse Ronan. She stars in two new films, including the Out Run, about a young woman struggling with alcoholism. To try to get sober, she moves back to her family's sheep farm in Scotland. Ronan had to learn new skills for.

[Terry Gross]

That role and I was thrown straight onto the Orkney mainland and had my hand up a U and was pulling a lamb out and I did that seven times.

[Al Pacino]

Ronan's other film currently in theaters is the World War II drama Blitz. Our film critic Justin Chang will have a review that's coming up on FRESH AIR Weekend.

[Ira Glass]

This message comes from Capital One, offering commercial solutions you can bank on. Now more than ever, your business faces unique challenges and opportunities. That's why Capital One offers a comprehensive suite of financial services, all tailored to your short and long term goals. Backed by the strength and stability of a top 10 commercial bank. Their dedicated experts work with you to build lasting success. Explore the [e-mail] commercial a member FDIC. This message comes from Carvana. With Carvana Value Tracker, you can track your car's value anytime, anywhere. Carvana will even let you know when your car's value changes with updated emails. However you value your car, know its worth with Carvana Value Tracker. This is Ira Glass of this American Life. Each week on our show, we choose a theme, tell different stories on that theme. All right, I'm just going to stop right there.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

You're listening to an NPR podcast. Chances are you know our show.

[Ira Glass]

So instead I'm going to tell you we've just been on a run of really good shows lately. Some big, epic, emotional stories and some weird, funny stuff, too.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Download us this American Life.

[Terry Gross]

Joe Biden's on his way out and Donald Trump's on his way back. Want to know what's happening as the presidential transition is underway? The NPR Politics Podcast has you covered with the latest news and analysis. Listen to the NPR Politics Podcast.

[Al Pacino]

This is FRESH AIR weekend. I'm Terry Gross. My guest is Al Pacino.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Don't ask me about my business Kate, is it true? Don't ask me about my business.

[Al Pacino]

No. Well, I'm going to ask Pacino about his business, by which I mean his art sounded.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

It sounded like a shot to me.

[Al Pacino]

It did. I know it's you slamming the table.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Oh, all right. As long as it's not a gun. I've had enough of those.

[Al Pacino]

So I'm going to talk to Pacino about his remarkable performance in the Godfather films and other films. We'll also talk about his life. He's written a new memoir called Sonny Boy, which is the name his mother used to call him. It spans his life from the days he grew up in the South Bronx, raised by a single mother with little money, to falling in love with the language of the great playwrights Strindberg, Chekhov and Shakespeare, getting his start in avant garde theatre in Greenwich Village, surprising himself by becoming a movie star, nearly dying from COVID and all the ups and downs along the way. In case you need to be reminded, some of his now classic films include Dog Day Afternoon, Serpico and Scarface. Although he starred along with Robert De NIRO In Godfather 2, they never had a scene together, but they were together in Heat and more recently in Martin Scorsese's film the Irishman. Pacino won an Oscar for his performance in Scent of a Woman. He won an Emmy for his performance in the HBO adaptation of the play Angels in America, playing Roy Cohn. He starred in the film adaptation of David Mamet's Pulitzer Prize winning play Glengarry Glen Ross and later starred in a Broadway revival of the show, but in a different role. Al Pacino. Welcome to FRESH air. So exciting to have you here.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Thank you. I'm very happy to be here.

[Al Pacino]

I want to get to a lot of your life. I want to start by talking about the Godfather. So I want to start with a scene from the first Godfather film. You've begun your transformation into the killer Michael, into the crime family Michael, you know, you start coming home from the military. You don't want any part of the crime family. But then you're kind of pulled in after your father is shot. So here's a scene from Godfather 1. You've begun your transformation into the hardened Michael. Your father's still alive, but Michael is preparing to take over from him. And you have become so hardened like you hardly blink in some scenes, including this one. So you're with Mo Green, a Vegas casino owner kind of modeled on Bugsy Siegel, and the Corleone family has helped back him. Also in the scene is Michael's older brother, but not very bright brother Fredo, played by John Cazale. And the family lawyer, Tom, played by Robert Duvall. Mo Green is played by Alex Rocco. You speak first.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

The Corleone family wants to buy you out. The Corleone family wants to buy me out? No, I buy you out. You don't buy me out. Your casino loses money. Maybe we can do better. You think I'm skimming off the top, Mike? You're unlucky. You damn guineas really make me laugh. I do you a favor and take Freddie in when you're having a bad time. And then you try to push me out. Wait a minute. You took Freddie in because the Corleone family bankrolled your casino. Because the Molinari family on the coast guaranteed his safety. Now we're talking business.

[Terry Gross]

Let's talk business.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Yeah, let's talk business, mate. First of all, you're all done. The Coyote family don't even have that kind of muscle anymore. The Godfather is sick, right? You're getting chased out of New York by Barzini and the other families. What do you think is going on here?

[Al Pacino]

You think you can come to my.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Hotel and take over?

[Ira Glass]

I talked to Barzini.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

I can make a deal with him and still keep my hotel. Is that why you slapped my brother around in public?

[Al Pacino]

Oh, now, that.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

That was nothing, Mike.

[Al Pacino]

Now, now, Mo didn't mean nothing by that. Sure, he flies off the hand once.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

In a while, but. But Mo and me were good friends.

[Al Pacino]

Right, Mo? Huh?

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

I got a business to run. I gotta kick asses sometimes to make it run right.

[Ira Glass]

We had a little argument, Freddie and.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

I, so I had to straighten them out. You straightened my brother out? He was banging cocktail waitresses two at a time.

[Terry Gross]

Players couldn't get a drink at the table.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

What's wrong with you? I leave for New York tomorrow. Think about a price. Do you know who I am? I'm Mo Green.

[Al Pacino]

I made my bones when you were.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Going out with cheerleaders. Wait a minute.

[Terry Gross]

Mo.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Mo, I got an idea.

[Terry Gross]

Tom.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Tom, you're the conciliary now.

[Terry Gross]

You can talk to the Don.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

You can explain.

[Terry Gross]

Just a minute.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Don is semi retired, and Mike is.

[Terry Gross]

In charge of the family business now. If you have anything to say, say it to Michael.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Mike, you don't come to Las Vegas and talk to a man like Mo Green like that. Fredo, you're my older brother and I love you. But don't ever take sides with anyone against the family again.

[Al Pacino]

I just love that scene so much.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Yeah, it's interesting on radio, too.

[Al Pacino]

It works.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Just hearing it.

[Al Pacino]

Doesn't it work, though?

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Yeah, it does.

[Al Pacino]

Yeah.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Really does. I was thinking maybe they'll do the Godfather on radio someday.

[Al Pacino]

That's a great idea.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Yeah.

[Al Pacino]

You know, I interviewed Michael Caine years ago, and the great actor Michael Caine, and he was saying when you were playing a powerful potion, you don't wave your hands around because when you have the power, people are looking at your every subtle gesture. They're trying to read you. They're trying to stay in your good graces and stay safe. And so weak people move their hands around. Powerful people don't. When we started talking, you were moving around a lot. So I'm thinking, was it hard for you to be as still as Michael is when he is exerting his power? Because he knows how to not be still when he needs to, but he can be very still and very opaque and very threatening at the same time.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

I know. I don't know how I did that.

[Terry Gross]

Yeah.

[Al Pacino]

I was wondering, I don't know till.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

This day what possessed me.

[Al Pacino]

You literally, like, don't blink in that scene. I think you blink once. How do you do that?

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Well, I was in the situation, as they say, and I guess it came to me, you know, because things like that happen if you stay the course. Meaning if you are with whoever you are when you're playing it and your instincts are operating. I guess I was lucky, and I just went in that direction, and I didn't do it consciously.

[Al Pacino]

So you grew up in the South Bronx. You hung out with a pretty tough crowd. Yeah. And used to, like, jump from rooftop to rooftop.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Oh, yeah, we were wild.

[Al Pacino]

You threw trash down. You'd be on the rooftop and throw trash down. On Saturday nights.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

On Saturday nights.

[Al Pacino]

To young men with their dates.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Yeah. Yeah. We would go there, throw, like, lettuce at them and stuff. And they always wanted to kill us, but they couldn't catch us. We would do it on occasion. On occasion, we didn't do it a lot, but when we did, I remember it.

[Al Pacino]

Where was the fun in doing that?

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

God only knows, because everybody else was doing it. That's what it was, something we were all doing together. Like we were in an orchestra. We just would go up there and, like, part of growing up where I was was being chased. That was the fun of everything.

[Al Pacino]

Chased by who?

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

By anybody that we screwed around with. And, you know, that's how we did. We didn't only do these things. I'm sorry. They stand out from time to time. But I remember my childhood is running.

[Al Pacino]

At least three of your closest friends died of drug related deaths with a heroin overdoses.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Yeah.

[Al Pacino]

How did you manage to avoid that yourself?

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Well, I believe my mother. My mother just was there and she just. No way, you know, we. It was just territory there in the South Bronx. We were. They were calling me late at night on a school night, come on out. You know, who knows what they were going to be doing. I think it's in the book too. And they call up and my mother just said no. And I was so angry with her. You know, all these things come back to you. You finally. I remember when, 30 years ago, I'm in my house in New York and I'm shaving to go to an event that's. I'm getting an award of some sort. And I was thinking about what am I going to say? And then it just dawns on me. I'm shaving, I see my face in the mirror and I thought, you're here because of your mother. What's the matter with you? I said, it's true. So I had this realization at age 52 that my mother was everything, you know.

[Al Pacino]

How old was she when she died? Did she get to see you be successful?

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

No, my grandfather and all. My mother saw me. They both died before I became successful.

[Al Pacino]

Your parents divorced before you were two. When you were around eight months old, you were taken away from your mother?

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

No, I think I was a year and a half and I stayed with them for eight months.

[Al Pacino]

Stayed with your grandparents?

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Yeah, my father's mother and father.

[Al Pacino]

And you say at least you were placed with family and not a foster home. Why were you taken away from your mother?

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

I would imagine. Of course, I'm not very clear on that. I learned that after my mother had died from relatives that came to see me on Broadway. And it was just a revelation. And then a bulb went off in my head and I thought, uh, oh, there it is. That's why I do some of the things I do.

[Al Pacino]

Like what?

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

I don't know, like the behavior I had and the way I was in life. And that started me. I went into therapy for the next.

[Al Pacino]

40 years after finding out about it.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Trauma, it's just trauma, you know, Trauma. We all have trauma.

[Al Pacino]

Trauma you didn't even know you had. That's interesting.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Yeah, I didn't.

[Al Pacino]

But that doesn't mean it didn't affect you, of course.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

So I know that my grandmother on my father's side raised me to the point where my grandmother and grandfather. That she had visitation rights in the divorce papers, which I found out, and she was simply the most wonderful person. I think I went there when I was a year and a half. That's tough stuff.

[Al Pacino]

So we need to take a short break here, so let me introduce you. My guest is Al Pacino, and he's written a new memoir called Sonny Boy. We'll hear more of our interview after a short break. I'm Terry Gross, and this is FRESH AIR Weekend.

[Ira Glass]

Hi.

[Al Pacino]

This is Molly C.V. nesberg, digital producer at Fresh Air. And this is Terry Gross, host of the show.

[Saoirse Ronan]

One of the things I do is.

[Al Pacino]

Write the weekly newsletter, and I'm a newsletter fan. I read it every Saturday after breakfast. The newsletter includes all the week shows, staff recommendations and Molly Picks timely highlights from the archive. It's a fun read.

[Terry Gross]

It's also the only place where we tell you what's coming. Coming up next week, an exclusive.

[Al Pacino]

So [e-mail] freshair and look for an email from Molly every Saturday morning. Okay.

[Terry Gross]

So does this sound like you you.

[Saoirse Ronan]

Love NPR's podcasts, you wish you could.

[Terry Gross]

Get more of all your favorite shows.

[Saoirse Ronan]

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[Terry Gross]

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[Saoirse Ronan]

Is time to sign up for the NPR bundle. Learn more at plus.NPR.org if you listen.

[Terry Gross]

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[Saoirse Ronan]

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[Terry Gross]

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[Saoirse Ronan]

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[Al Pacino]

The Neubauer Family foundation, supporting WHYY's fresh air and its commitment to sharing ideas.

[Saoirse Ronan]

And encouraging meaningful conversation.

[Al Pacino]

This is FRESH AIR weekend. I'm Terry Gross. Let's get back to my interview with Al Pacino. He has a new memoir called Sonny Boy. When we left off, we were talking about growing up in the South Bronx with his grandparents and single mother. There was a point where your mother was crying and kissing you all over and you were very young and you weren't understanding what's up, why is this happening? And then you return home and you see there's an ambulance in front of the building and it's your mother who they're there for. Was that did she attempt to die by suicide?

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Yeah. Yes.

[Al Pacino]

How old were you?

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

I was about 6.

[Al Pacino]

Did it register on you? What had happened? Did you Comprehend it.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

I couldn't quite. At 6, I knew something was up and I was, you know, I lived with my grandmother and grandfather and my mother. And I remember them all sitting at a table. I think this was after the war. So my uncle would be there, my aunt would be there. Everybody was talking about what to do. And I remember sitting there and they let me sit there. So I didn't quite understand what they were saying, but I knew it was a serious thing. But she came back.

[Al Pacino]

That must have been traumatizing too, Leaving.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Seeing her in the street. Somebody said to me as I'm running to see the ambulance, you know, we rarely saw ambulances coming on our block. And I saw it and there she was on a stretcher going into the. Into the ambulance. And I thought, of course, I couldn't believe it was my mother. These things don't happen to my mother, you know. And it was her because they said, hey, I hear it's your mother, Sonny, it's your mother. Mother. My mother. I said, no, nothing happens to my mother. And I remember that feeling and then the shock of seeing her in that. It was, as they say, surreal. But it's clear in my memory.

[Al Pacino]

Yeah, she must have loved movies because she took you to the movies when you were.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Oh, she loved everything. My mother was very smart. She was. She read and had played the piano and I mean, very poor, of course, but she was very, very intelligent. And my mother decided to go to the theater and take me to Broadway shows, among other things. But she loved Cat on the Hut and Roof and those kind of shows. She was very into.

[Al Pacino]

She took you to see, when you were five, she took you to see the Lost Weekend, starring Ray Milan as like raging alcoholic. It's a great film, but he, you know, he, he gets very self destructive and I don't know, you were five and then you started acting out those scenes at home.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Yeah, I started acting. Yeah, I would act all the time. When mom took me to the movies, I'd come back because we lived alone and there was nobody there to play with. So I'd act out all the parts in the films I saw. And I acted out the last weekend and I showed it to my mother. My mother said, oh, what is this? And they started laughing. And then she'd show it to the families or when I was somewhere, they'd say, sonny, do the last weekend. And I would do the last weekend. And I never understood why they would laugh at someone in this predicament because it's where he's searching for A bottle of booze that he hid somewhere when he was sober and now he couldn't find it. And when he was drunk and now he can't find it and he goes crazy opening drawers. And so. And I love doing that. And they would be laughing and I would say, why are they laughing? To myself.

[Al Pacino]

Do you understand now?

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

I sort of do.

[Al Pacino]

It's kind of funny to see a five year old playing an adult in crisis.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Yeah, Adult in crisis.

[Al Pacino]

Who's totally disillusioned and with real commitment.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

I was right there. Yeah.

[Al Pacino]

You became an actor.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Yes.

[Al Pacino]

You were going to turn down the role in Godfather 2.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Well, the only reason I stayed in Godfather 1 is, I mean, you would quit if you were in it. When everybody's over there giggling at what you're doing. Whispers on the set. I said, I don't want to be here. I said, I don't like being around people who don't want me around. I'd never been that way. I just sort of shy off. I don't want to be there.

[Al Pacino]

But for Godfather 2, I mean, Godfather 1 was already a success, but was.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Oh, yeah, Godfather 2.

[Al Pacino]

Mario Puzo comes up to you with the script that he'd written. And he said, this is crap.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Yes. He said, I just want you to know before you read it, they want to do it and this is crap. And I read it and he was right. It was. It was not good. And so I just thought, well. And they kept upping the ante. They kept giving me more money and I kept saying, but I don't want to do it. And then finally, when Francis. Because Francis wasn't on the project, so Francis got on the project and he cut them off at about 700,000. He said, no, he doesn't want money. He wants a good script. Stop giving him the money.

[Al Pacino]

Wait, so was the script rewritten? Yeah, well, he wrote, this is a great script. Oh, I know.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

It was a great script.

[Al Pacino]

Copeland?

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Yeah. With Barry. And partially it was almost done, but me and Charlie still didn't think certain things were right. So me and Charlie went out to San Francisco and we said, let's see if we can do this, you know? And Francis did really a great job. And he just did. And we just worked with him a little bit. And I remember thinking that was a very memorable moment, you know. So then it was done. I said, yes. And it was a tough shoot for me because I just don't know. It was a time of my life where it's hard to describe it without lying down on the Couch.

[Al Pacino]

It was hard because of your personal.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Life or of course, everything, I guess where my drinking had gotten to or all of it. I found myself in a state of mind that was difficult. I took Valium. Remember those days or you don't? You're too young.

[Al Pacino]

Valium.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Valium.

[Al Pacino]

I remember those days.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Do you remember Valium?

[Al Pacino]

Of course I didn't take it, but certainly knew all about it. I mean, it was everywhere. There were jokes about it and dramas about it. It was like one of the first really popular anti. Anxiety medication.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Yeah, I took that and drank at the same time. Which is a. No, no, that's.

[Al Pacino]

Yeah, that is.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

So I was a lucky boy.

[Al Pacino]

How did you manage to get through the film? You're so good at it. I mean, you're so good in the film. How did you manage?

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Well, that's probably why I was so. But thank you for mentioning that. It just went very far. I went very far into it because I always thought by the end of. Of Godfather one, it looked like Michael was starting to become encased in whatever this thing took over him, you know, this place he went to to survive, to save his father's life and to continue his life. And it was a tough one. So, you know, because like I sort of see in Godfather to a man who's cutting himself off, he's had to.

[Al Pacino]

Emotionally shut down to do what he felt he needed to do.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Yes, yes.

[Al Pacino]

And become a monster.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Yes.

[Al Pacino]

Did that have an impact on you having to emotionally for the role?

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

It had to. It had to. I've learned since when you play situations and people that caught up in that web, it's best to be happy every day, sing cheery songs and then go on. It's actually true. I've known some actors, very good actors, who just say, nope, nope, I'm just doing my thing. They could be dancing and singing and then just go right to it. And at that time, I would do it. Now, of course I do it. Yeah. The more difficult the roll, the more, you know, and the more demanding or whatever. You go the other way in your preparation because you got it all in you now. I mean, you know, I. I think just through experience and doing this, the saying goes, time keeps me green, you know, because when you are acting or that thing that we do, and after a while it gets there into the body and into the. It just. It becomes part of you and you don't have to act anymore.

[Al Pacino]

Thank you so much for talking with us.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Oh, it's been a pleasure.

[Al Pacino]

Thank you for all your great films. All your great performances and for the book. Thank you very much.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Thank you.

[Al Pacino]

Be well.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

You too.

[Al Pacino]

Al Pacino's new memoir is called Sonny Boy. In the new World War II drama Blitz, Saoirse Ronan plays a London factory worker trying to protect her young son as German bombs fall across the city. It's the latest movie written and directed by the English filmmaker Steve McQueen. Blitz is playing in theaters and begins streaming on apple TV on November 22nd. Our film critic Justin Chang has this.

[Ira Glass]

Review from Empire of the sun to Au revoir, les enfants. There's been no shortage of films that show US World War II through the eyes of a child. Youthful innocence can magnify the horrors of war, as it does in shattering dramas like Come and See or the animated Grave of the Fireflies. But then there's Hope and glory, John Borman's 1987 portrait of his boyhood years during the Blitz. It's the rare film to treat life during wartime with a buoyant sense of adventure. The wonderful new movie Blitz is a sadder, more somber look at a time when German bombs rained down on London. The filmmaker Steve McQueen plunges us right into the chaos and devastation, the falling bombs, the burning buildings and the utter randomness of death and survival. But Blitz, while not exactly a movie for children, is nonetheless a story about a child. And it has powerful moments of wonderment, humor and even joy. It follows a nine year old boy named George, played by the captivating newcomer Elliot Heffernan. It's 1940, and as the nightly air raids grow worse and worse, George's mother, Rita, played by a luminous Saoirse Ronan, decides to send him to the countryside, where hundreds of thousands of English children were sent during the war. But George doesn't want to go.

[Terry Gross]

Why can't you come with me? Sweetheart, I told you, it's an adventure for children only. Growing up's not allowed. But it's gonna be great. You're gonna make new friends. My friends are here. Yeah, well, you play games in the countryside, that'd be nice. There'd be cows and there'd be horses, but they smell. I want to stay with you. Yeah, I know. It's only until all this is over and then the schools will open again and life will get back to normal. I promise. Please, Mum, don't turn me away.

[Ira Glass]

It may sound like a familiar, even cliche scene, but beneath the stiff upper lip conventions, McQueen is up to something pointed and even subversive. George is the son of a white mother and a black father. A grenadian immigrant who was unjustly deported years earlier. As we see in a harrowing flashback, George never knew his dad, but he knows firsthand the racism his dad experienced. That's why he can't bear to be separated from his mother and his grandfather, played by the great singer and songwriter Paul Weller. And so, not long into his journey, George leaps from the train and heads back to London. Blitz follows him from one peril to the next. There are sweet moments of uplift, like when he rides the rails with three boys also making their way home. The story also takes some darkly Dickensian turns, like when George meets a gang of robbers who are exploiting the Blitz to their crooked advantage. In one moving chapter, George is aided by a friendly air raid warden named Ife, Nicely played by Benjamin Clementine. Ife is a Nigerian immigrant and almost certainly the first black man George has ever seen in a position of authority. It's here that the profundity of McQueen's vision comes into focus. He may be working in a more classical mode than he did in historical dramas like Hunger and 12 Years a Slave, but there's something quietly radical about his perspective. He's showing us an England that was more racially diverse and more racially divided than most movies of the period ever acknowledged. At times, Blitz plays like A prequel to McQueen's 2020 anthology series, Small Acts, a vibrant portrait of the West Indian community of London, where he grew up. It also has some overlap with Occupied City, his 2023 documentary about Nazi occupied Amsterdam, a very different film about a city under siege. Race isn't the only thing on McQueen's mind. He also salutes the crucial role women played in the war effort. Women like George's mom, Rita, who by day works in a munitions factory and by night volunteers in an underground shelter. Once Rita learns that George is lost in London, Blitz becomes the heartrending tale of a mother and child trying to find each other across a bombed out landscape, a smoky ruin in Adam Stockhausen's brilliant production design. For all these stark and apocalyptic images, the London we see in Blitz also pulses with life. The use of music throughout is inspired, and I don't just mean Hans Zimmer's brooding score. McQueen guides us into a dance hall where black musicians perform for white partygoers and through a busy pub where George's granddad tickles the ivories. One terrific scene unfolds on the factory floor where Rita, a gifted singer, cheers up the crowd with a song, an original tune, as it happens, co written by McQueen and Nicholas Bertell. The music in these moments never feels like just a diversion. These are songs of defiance, and in them you can hear a nation's very will to survive.

[Al Pacino]

Justin Chang is a film critic for the New Yorker. He reviewed Blitz, starring Saoirse Ronan. She also stars on the new film the Outrun, about a young alcoholic trying to get sober. Coming up, we'll talk with Saoirse Ronan. I'm Terry Gross and this is FRESH AIR weekend.

[Ira Glass]

The Code Switch team spent Election Day talking to folks about how the outcome might impact them.

[Terry Gross]

It's a time capsule of people's hopes and fears before they knew the results.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

One way or another, there's a change coming. I wanted to vote for Trump, but I voted for her.

[Ira Glass]

Gays for Trump.

[Saoirse Ronan]

I cried this morning. I've been crying on enough.

[Terry Gross]

I'm terrified.

[Ira Glass]

Listen to Code Switch, the podcast about race and identity, from npr. On the Code Switch podcast, we think about race and identity all the time. On a recent episode, we tried to make sense of the devastating violence in Gaza by turning to James Baldwin, the writer and intellectual who thought a lot about what was happening in Israel during his lifetime. He his words speak to the present in unexpected ways. Hear how they might help you think through it, too. On the Code Switch podcast only from npr.

[Al Pacino]

If you need a moment to catch your breath and calm your nerves, listen to the latest All Songs Considered from NPR Music. We've got an all new mix of songs to slow the blood and recalibrate your day. Plus reflections on gratitude, joy and the power of kindness. Listen to new episodes of All Songs CONSIDERED every Tuesday, wherever you get podcasts. This is FRESH AIR weekend. I'm Terry Gross. Our next guest is four time Oscar nominee Saoirse Ronan. We just heard about her film Blitz. She also stars in the new film the Outrun. She starred in the earlier films Little Women, Lady Bird and Atonement. She spoke with FRESH air's Anne Marie Bonato.

[Saoirse Ronan]

Saoirse Ronan's performance as a precocious young girl in the war drama Atonement got her her first Oscar nomination. She was only 13 at the time and three other nominations were to follow, one for the 2015 film Brooklyn, about a young Irish woman in the 1950s, torn between her new life in the US and her homeland. She got two nominations for the film she made with Greta Gerwig, Lady Bird in 2017 and Little Women in 2019. Her other movies include the Grand Budapest Hotel, the Lovely Bones and Mary Queen of Scots. This fall, she has two films in theaters. In the movie Blitz by the director Steve McQueen. Ronan plays a mother living in London with her young son and elderly father, all trying to survive the German bombing campaigns during World War II. And in the film the Outrun, she plays a young woman whose life is derailed because of her addiction to alcohol. It's based on the bestselling memoir by Amy Liptrot. Ronan plays Rona, a dramatized version of Lip Trot, who's a graduate student living in London. When her drinking takes over, she tries different things to get sober. Going to rehab, moving back to Orkney, Scotland, to help her bipolar dad tend to his goat farm, and then to an even more remote island off the coast of Scotland, where she spends most of her time alone working on nature conservation. Here's a scene from the Outrun. Ronah is waking up after a bad night of drinking. She doesn't even remember what she's done. But both she and her boyfriend, played by Papa Esiadu, are both hurt and bandaged up. He's had enough and wants to break up.

[Terry Gross]

What did I do last night?

[Ira Glass]

You don't remember?

[Terry Gross]

Danan, I'm so sorry. Whatever I did, I'm not drinking anymore. I'm sorry.

[Al Pacino]

I'm so tired of hearing you say that.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

I can't hear you say that again.

[Terry Gross]

What do you mean?

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

I don't even recognize you anymore. I wish you were a completely different person.

[Terry Gross]

Don't say that.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

I can't do this.

[Terry Gross]

What do you mean, you can't do this?

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

I just can't do this.

[Terry Gross]

Did I do that to you?

[Ira Glass]

Shh.

[Terry Gross]

I'll never do that again. Right. Whatever I did, I'll never do it again. I'm never gonna drink again. I promise you.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Right.

[Terry Gross]

Cause I don't want to lose you. I don't want to lose you.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

I love you.

[Saoirse Ronan]

Saoirse Ronan, welcome back to FRESH air.

[Terry Gross]

Thank you.

[Saoirse Ronan]

I know you read the book the Outrun and loved it so much that you wanted to make it into a movie, produce it, and play the main character. What was it about the book that you found so compelling?

[Terry Gross]

I think it was the first time that I had been exposed to an addiction story that didn't feel like it was all doom and gloom. It allowed me to get to know the whole person. Amy Liptrot wasn't defining herself by her addiction to alcohol, but was acknowledging that it played a huge part in her life, in the destruction of her life. For a long time, I was really drawn to the fact that. That we would follow a young woman as she struggles with alcoholism. I think that usually when you Think of that as a story you would imagine probably a man, you know, middle aged or a woman who's going through a divorce or she's lost her family or, you know, there's a sort of domestic sort of element to it. And the fact that we were going to follow someone who, as bad as it sounds on paper, shouldn't have this addiction and yet does, just reminds us of how this is something that can affect everyone.

[Saoirse Ronan]

Now, you said that there were parts of this story, of dealing with. It was scary for you because it was too private, something that you hadn't completely explored before. And I'm not sure if you mean like in the film or in your life or both. What was so scary to you about it?

[Terry Gross]

It is a particular topic that is very personal to me. It's an addiction that I haven't struggled with myself, but I've watched people very close to me struggle with it. And some of them have seen the light eventually and others have not. And that's incredibly painful. And I think as someone on the receiving end of that, there's a lot of anger and resentment that is born out of that experience because you're not going through it yourself. You don't understand, or I certainly didn't understand really how addiction works. I know that's kind of a silly thing to say, but I think unless you actually sit down to examine the effect that a substance is having on your brain, you don't really take the time to unpick it because you're so hurt by it and you're so hurt that it has been chosen over you. And so I think I spent a lot of my life carrying that around with me. But it, but it was. Yeah, it was scary. It was scary to hone in on this. It just brought up a lot of pain for me.

[Saoirse Ronan]

I suppose in this movie you do some interesting things. You know, your character grew up on a sheep farm and at one point your character puts her hands in a sheep to get to help birth a lamb. And at another point, you know, you're in what seems like completely freezing water and the character is connecting with seals who are swimming there and it kind of shocks her into her body. So you physically did those things. What was that like?

[Terry Gross]

I love to swim in cold water. I've been doing that since I was a kid. So that's like my happy place. That was not a challenge at all. If anything, it was a challenge to pretend that it was freezing cold. Like so cold that I just wouldn't get in. So I'm that person. Am I a sheep farmer? I am not, and I was not before this experience. However, since then, I have, like, gotten in touch with every farmer I know in, like, Ireland and Scotland and been like, let me know when lamin season starts, guys, because I'm ready. It was the most insane experience I've ever had on. On. On a film. And just in life, it's so intense. And we actually shot the lambing sequence before we started principal photography, so it was probably about five months prior to us starting the production, because lambing season in the Orkney island starts in, like, sort of April time. It's a little bit later than the mainland. And then I was thrown straight onto the Orkney mainland, and I had my hand up a U and was pulling a lamb out, and I did that seven times. And I was sort of coached by different farmers that I met in Orkney, and they were incredible. But the really interesting and really humbling thing about it was that sheep don't sort of stick to a schedule necessarily. And so we had to bend our shooting schedule to nature. I would get ready at, like, 4:00am, we'd go into the shed and we would just wait and the camera would be ready to go. And sometimes you would go in and there wouldn't be a you that would go into labor that day. Other times they would. And as soon as they did, Kyle, our farming consultant, was just like, okay, go get her. Go tackle that you to the ground. And he would coach me through it from off camera. And it was just the most amazing experience. So that really sort of set the tone for the rest of the movie, I think.

[Saoirse Ronan]

Now, the other movie that you have coming out this fall is Blitz by the director Steve McQueen. It's about a mother during Germany's bombing attacks on London in World War II. She's worried about her son's safety, so she follows the government's recommendation, which is to send all children to the countryside to avoid the bombing campaigns. Now, I read that a photo that Steve McQueen saw while researching another project ended up inspiring this film. Is that your understanding of how it came about?

[Terry Gross]

Yeah, he was doing research and came across this incredible photograph of this little black boy on a train station platform on his own. And he had a little cap on and his little suitcase and. And I think, I'm assuming a tag around his neck. And Steve was, of course, very intrigued by him and wanted to know what his story was. And so that's where the inspiration for Blitz came from.

[Saoirse Ronan]

And what drew you to the film, I'll say That it's a different kind of World War II film that focuses on those left in London during the bombing attacks.

[Terry Gross]

Yeah, I mean, that's really the reason why I wanted to get involved. I of course wanted to make a film with Steve McQueen. I'm such a huge fan of his and I've wanted to work with him for years. I of course knew that it was going to be a sort of fresh take on a World War II British epic, but I didn't know exactly how. And so when he started to explain to me that it would follow a mixed race little boy who he'd found already at that stage, I think Elliot had already been cast and that it would really focus on the people left behind, essentially the ones who had to keep society going, which was the women, children and older folk. It just piqued my interest straight away. And knowing that my sort of role that I would play would be in honoring the mother child relationship was just something that I couldn't really pass up. I'm incredibly close to my own mother and we've spent a lot of time together where it was just me and her. So that dynamic is something that I've always wanted to bring to life on screen. And getting to do it with this sort of backdrop was just incredibly exciting.

[Saoirse Ronan]

You were born in New York City, in the Bronx. Your parents had moved to the US from Ireland in the 1980s. Why did they come to New York?

[Terry Gross]

It was a rite of passage really. They left school when they were 15, 16. They needed to get to work. There was more work in the UK and America than there was at home. And I think a couple of their friends had gone over ahead of them, had gotten a bit of work and had something lined up for dad. So he went over and then mam followed a couple of months later. And yeah, and they just, they lived there, they experienced life outside of Ireland and you know, it was really hard. They didn't have anything, they didn't have money. They, you know, she had me and of course couldn't afford health insurance. And so it was actually, I think it was like it was a Catholic church charity or something that helped her a lot when she, when she had me. The point being that she sort of really had to rely on other sources in order to live. But it was, it was tough. You know, my. My dad started out in construction. He eventually became a bartender and was discovered by bunch of actors from the Irish Rep in the pub that he worked in. He auditioned for a play. He got the part, he became an actor, a Theater actor. Mam was a cleaner, and then eventually Nannied for different families and took me to work with her. And I think at a certain point, my mom in particular realized that this just wasn't the life that she wanted me to have. You know, if you're. If you want to live comfortably in New York, and I would say London as well, you need money. And they just didn't have that. So they went home where they had, you know, a proper support system.

[Saoirse Ronan]

And was your dad's acting career that brought you back to Ireland, is that right?

[Terry Gross]

Yeah, it was. So it was a combination of them just needing more support, I suppose, from their family, them wanting me to, you know, have a garden and fresh air to grow up with and in. But also it was a time where the Irish film industry was sort of starting to boom a little bit because of filmmakers like Jim Sheridan and Neil Jordan and just a lot of American filmmakers who were becoming really fascinated with Ireland, either because of their heritage or Irish playwrights that they'd grown up reading and. Yeah, and so work took him home. So we went back.

[Saoirse Ronan]

Now, you're very good at doing accents. You know, you're Scottish in the Outrun, English in Blitz. You do a specific regional accent in Brooklyn, and of course, you do an American accent in the films Lady Bird and Little Women. I was wondering if you think about living that living in the US as a baby helped you with your American accent. So it just makes me think about language at that early age and kind of like what, like how, like, weird and malleable it could be?

[Terry Gross]

Absolutely. I mean, I think it's. It's not dissimilar to being bilingual. Like, you know, you're so open to everything. And so if you're exposed to lots of different sounds, then I guess your ear sort of remains open to that and your brain is tuned into that from quite an early age. So, yeah, I think, you know, I was, as I said, I was mainly around a lot of Irish people in New York, but of course heard a lot of American accents, too, and was also brought up on American tv, like a lot of kids are. And, you know, a lot of my friends nowadays will say that their kids, whether they're in London or Dublin or Glasgow or New Zealand, you know, were so influenced by America that actually a lot of their kids are kind of brilliant at doing the American accent just through, like, Dora the Explorer or whatever, whatever they watch now Paw Patrol. So, yeah, so I guess I was no different. But I will say that it's funny, the older that I've gotten. As important as accents have always been for me, I'm actually really, really keen to just use my own now. And I remember Andrew Scott saying that, that, you know, he spent so long, as we all do, as a lot of Irish and Celts do in particular, and Northern English do, where we have to be able to do accents because there just aren't enough parts for people who sound the way we sound. So you have to be able to talk like this or have an American accent, which is, you know, frustrating. But he he said that for a long time he really indulged in sounding different from himself and that that's sort of part of what act. And I felt exactly the same way. And then at a certain point in your life, you kind of think, oh, I'm actually not that bad. And I'm not completely uninteresting. And I'd quite like to explore acting without having to think about the accent. So I've kind of gone through a period over the last few years where I've really enjoyed using my own.

[Saoirse Ronan]

Well, Saoirse Ronan, thank you so much for joining us.

[Terry Gross]

Thank you so much. It was lovely.

[Al Pacino]

Saoirse Ronan spoke with FRESH air's Ann Marie Baldonado. Her films the Outrun and Blitz are in theaters. Blitz will start streaming on Apple TV November 22nd. Fresh Air Weekend is produced by Teresa Madden. Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our technical director is Audrey Bentham. Our engineer is Adam Staniszewski. Our interviews and reviews are produced, produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Anne Marie Bodonato, Sam Brigger, Lauren Krenzel, Monique Nazareth, Thea Challoner, Susan Yakundi and Anna Bauman. Our digital media producers are Molly Sivinesper and Sabrina Seaworth. Our co host is Tanya Mosley. I'm Terry Gross.

[Ira Glass]

This message comes from NPR sponsor Rosetta Stone, an expert in language learning for 30 years. Right now, NPR listeners can get Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership to 25 different languages. For learn more at rosettastone.com NPR Read.

[Al Pacino]

About the impact of women in music with NPR's new book, How Women Made a Revolutionary History, from NPR Music. This stunning anthology offers original writing and illustrations, interviews and photos, and the audiobook includes 52 years worth of interview excerpts with more than 60 legendary artists. Visit npr.org how women made music to order.

[Terry Gross]

Now on short wave, we know the human body is this amazing singular thing capable of facing down all kinds of infection and disease, from managing UTIs to cancer to long Covid. Our show is dedicated to destigmatizing our relationship to our bodies. Listen to the shortwave podcast from npr.