Best Of: Boots Riley / Will Sharpe

Summary

Fresh Air: "Best Of: Boots Riley / Will Sharpe"
Date: May 16, 2026
Host: Tonya Mosley (with interviews from Ann Marie Baldonado)
Guests: Boots Riley, Will Sharpe

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Episode Overview

This episode of Fresh Air features two wide-ranging interviews:

• Filmmaker, rapper, and organizer Boots Riley, discussing his new film I Love Boosters, his artistic/political philosophy, and personal history.
• Actor/writer/director Will Sharpe, spotlighting his performances in the new series Amadeus, Too Much, and his role in A Real Pain, as well as reflections on cultural identity and artistic process.

The episode engages deeply with both guests about the intersections of creative work, identity, and sociopolitical context, while revealing the human stories behind the headlines and performances.

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Interview 1: Boots Riley on "I Love Boosters" and Art as Class Struggle

[00:25] Introduction & Background

• Tonya Mosley introduces Boots Riley, highlighting his career as frontman of The Coup, filmmaker (Sorry to Bother You) and new work, I Love Boosters, a film starring Keke Palmer about a crew of women shoplifters ("boosters").
• I Love Boosters draws from Riley’s own life and his 20-year-old song of the same name.

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[03:30] Boots Riley on Boosters and Personal Experience

• Riley shares his firsthand knowledge of "boosters," people who shoplift retail goods to resell them affordably in their community.
• Quote:

  "Well, I have been a broke rapper for a long time, having to stay fly... just a job requirement. And so I've definitely had to deal with a lot of boosters."
  (Boots Riley, 03:41)

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[04:54] The Meaning and Origin of "Booster"

• Riley notes the debate around the regional origins of the term "booster," mentioning communities in New York, Chicago, Bay Area—without settling the debate.

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[05:35] On Representation, Community, and Who Gets to Be Creative

• Riley explains how I Love Boosters explores creativity and theft—how luxury designers profit from the styles and innovations of marginalized communities.
• The story isn't just about theft, but about creative ownership and who gets credit.
• Quote:

  "What is being stolen is actually maybe yours in the first place?" (Tonya Mosley, 05:35)

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[06:17] Riley’s Political Awakening and Early Activism

• Riley shares formative experiences with organizing—including being "hoodwinked" into activism while a teen (07:02).

• Describes the realization that collective movements can create change, moving from "wanting to get with these girls to wanting to be them."
  Quote:

  "I went in that one trip from wanting to get with these girls to wanting to be them."
  (Boots Riley, 08:44)

• Also addresses his upbringing with activist parents: "They didn’t say, here, you have to learn this... I probably would have later thought of it as their stuff and not mine."

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[09:27] Casting Stars & Evolving Philosophy

• Mosley remarks on casting high-profile actors (Keke Palmer, Demi Moore, Don Cheadle, Lakeith Stanfield) in the new film.
• Riley confesses he initially resisted known actors to avoid "star vehicles" but now trusts his own writing to create specificity.
  Quote:

  "It's my job to make them forget what they know about that person."
  (Boots Riley, 10:16)

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[11:07] Why Keke Palmer as Corvette?

• Riley saw aspects of Palmer’s talent underutilized in previous work:
  Quote:

  "She's, she's shown herself... but I met with her and I could see this thing and her willingness to go there... a chance to see someone do stuff that they haven't done before."
  (Boots Riley, 11:10–11:56)

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[11:56] Art, Contradiction, and Critiquing from Within

• Mosley asks Riley about living in contradiction: making a $20 million film that's anti-capitalist.

• Riley argues we are all within the system, but his goal is to use the platform to "instigate class struggle."
  Quote:

  "We're all inside the system... my goal with my art is to instigate class struggle."
  (Boots Riley, 12:18–13:04)

• Rejects the notion of "getting inside" the system, insisting there's no outside under capitalism.

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[15:53] Boots Riley on His Mother, Artistic Upbringing, & Gender

• Deep dive into Riley’s mother’s background: mixed race, artist, and an early performer in what became Sesame Street.

• Riley reflects on his mother putting aside her creative dreams and its impact on his worldview.

• He’s more influenced by her as a real artist than by the "old people theater" his grandmother did, though it wasn't always glamorous.

  Memorable Exchange:

  Tonya: "When did you realize that, wow, my mom maybe didn't have a fully realized life?"
  Boots: "Well, I think, you know, she told us... She was a round artist. She was a round musician. I was around jazz musicians... But my point is... she wasn't making things in the way that she wanted."
  (18:40–20:31)

• Connects this to the women of I Love Boosters: "this is a movie about women who are creators and their dreams are happening against a system that won't let them." (20:31)

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[21:11] Reflecting on Radical Roots & Influences

• Mosley asks how his younger, radical self would view his successful present.

• Riley:

  "They'd be like, are you kidding me? You're making Star Wars for radical politics. When can I see it?"
  (Boots Riley, 21:17)

• Riley draws parallel to George Lucas' anti-establishment intentions with Star Wars, comparing his own work as using genre and mass media to advance radical ideas.

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[22:59] On Style: Metaphor, Comedy, and Art That “Keeps You Dancing”

• Riley discusses balancing message with entertainment:

  "If I keep you dancing, I got you, right? In this case... If I keep you laughing and keep you interested and keep you on the edge of your seat and feeling surprised and engaged, then I have license to do almost anything."
  (Boots Riley, 23:04–24:09)

• Prefers art that's direct rather than ambiguous:

  "It's very clear what I'm saying. It's not ambiguous. There's no, yeah, yeah. And I like art that does that."
  (Boots Riley, 24:09–24:30)

[24:34] Closing of the Interview

• Tonya Mosley thanks Boots Riley for his time and for making I Love Boosters.
• Film opens May 22.

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Interlude: David Attenborough Review by David Biancooli

[25:25 – 30:43]

• Special tribute to David Attenborough’s 100th birthday and a new documentary, Attenborough's Greatest Adventure.

• Highlights Attenborough’s contributions to natural history documentaries, notable on-screen moments, and his impact on raising environmental consciousness.

  Quote:

  "If we damage the natural world, we damage ourselves."
  (David Attenborough, as quoted by David Biancooli, 30:04)

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Interview 2: Will Sharpe on Amadeus, Too Much, and A Real Pain

[31:07] Introduction & Background

• Ann Marie Baldonado interviews Will Sharpe about his Emmy/BAFTA-nominated and winning performative and creative work:
  • Ethan in White Lotus
  • Creator/actor in Flowers and Jirihaji
  • Recent roles include Lena Dunham's Too Much, Jesse Eisenberg's A Real Pain, and now starring as Mozart in a new series Amadeus.

[33:04] Amadeus: On Becoming Mozart

• Preparation involved 6–7 months of learning piano and authentic conducting styles.
• Immersing in Mozart's music: using listening as "meditative practice."
• The role required bridging Mozart’s playful, grand, and deeply expressive qualities into a coherent person.
• Quote:

  "Listening to Mozart's music was an incredibly helpful way of just kind of sinking into it... trying to marry [his playfulness and his darkness] into one person."
  (Will Sharpe, 34:09–35:48)

[35:48] Expression Through Music

• In Amadeus, Mozart expresses what he can’t in conversation via music.
• Sharpe relates to performing emotional truth through art, considering neurodiversity in his portrayal.
• Quote:

  "He can't communicate successfully in a kind of ordinary, normal way. But through his music, he's expressing a lot of what he isn't able to say day to day."
  (Will Sharpe, 36:41)

[37:47] Too Much: Working with Lena Dunham

• Sharpe describes his character Felix as outwardly "cool or open," but actually a "bit of a nerd" with emotional baggage.
• The show explores personal baggage in relationships.

[39:10] Clip: Class and Race in British Society

• Sharpe contributed the detail that Felix's school nickname was "Felix Raman," a racist play on his half-Japanese heritage, grounding the character’s experience in real social pressures.
• Quote:

  "There is absolutely no way if his name was Felix Rehman and he's half Japanese and he went to that kind of school, that he wouldn't be called Felix Raman."
  (Will Sharpe, 41:58)

[41:58] On Identity and Childhood in Japan/England

• Sharpe describes his early years in urban Japan, the power of sound in memory, and feeling 'in between' cultures.
• Quote:

  "You do sometimes end up with this feeling that you're not really sure where your home is or, or how to identify."
  (Will Sharpe, 44:07)

[44:07] A Real Pain: Working with Kieran Culkin & Jesse Eisenberg

• Describes the meta-dynamic between Culkin and Eisenberg mirroring their on-screen roles.
• Culkin’s "electric" and unpredictable acting style brought energy and fun to the set.
• Quote:

  "It’s just exciting to act opposite Ciaran... you sort of know he's always going to bring it and it's always going to work. But then he's also very playful and kind of doesn't mind pushing the edges."
  (Will Sharpe, 46:19)

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[47:43] Closing

Will Sharpe thanks the show for having him. Amadeus limited series is out on Starz.

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Memorable Quotes

• Boots Riley:
  • "My goal with my art is to instigate class struggle." [13:04]
  • "If I keep you laughing and keep you interested... then I have license to do almost anything." [23:04]
  • On art’s directness: "It's very clear what I'm saying. It's not ambiguous." [24:09]
• Will Sharpe:
  • "Through his music, [Mozart's] expressing a lot of what he isn't able to say day to day." [36:41]
  • "You do sometimes end up with this feeling that you're not really sure where your home is or, or how to identify." [44:07]
• David Attenborough (via Biancooli):
  • "If we damage the natural world, we damage ourselves." [30:04]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:25] Introduction of Boots Riley & I Love Boosters
• [05:35] On creative appropriation and whose ideas get stolen
• [07:02] Riley’s story of becoming politicized as a teen
• [09:27] On star casting and authenticity in film
• [11:10] Why Keke Palmer was cast
• [12:18] On contradictions of critiquing capitalism from within
• [15:53] On his mother's dreams, gender, and artistic legacy
• [21:11] How his younger self would view his career now
• [22:59] Riley’s philosophy of art, genre, and message
• [25:25] David Biancooli reviews Attenborough’s Greatest Adventure
• [31:07] Introduction of Will Sharpe
• [34:03] Preparing for Amadeus and learning Mozart
• [36:41] Portraying communication through music
• [39:10] Too Much: Discussing race/class and personal input to character
• [41:58] Reflecting on cultural identity
• [44:07] Working with Ciaran Culkin in A Real Pain

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Final Thoughts

This “Best Of” edition of Fresh Air delivers engaging, candid conversations that traverse the intersections of art, identity, political consciousness, and creative risk. It’s a must-listen for anyone interested in how artists wrestle with systems—and how storytelling can change hearts and minds.

Transcript

[Will Sharpe]

On consider this, NPR's afternoon news podcast. We cover everything from politics to the

[Boots Riley]

economy to the world.

[NPR Narrator]

But every story starts with a question.

[Will Sharpe]

At npr, we stand for your right to be curious, to make sense of

[NPR Narrator]

the biggest story of the day and

[Boots Riley]

what it means for you.

[Will Sharpe]

Follow Consider this wherever you get your podcasts

[Tonya Moseley]

from WHYY in Philadelphia, this is FRESH AIR weekend. I'm Tonya Moseley. Today, Boots Riley. His new film is called I Love Boosters, and it stars Keke Palmer as the leader of a crew of women shoplifters who steal from luxury stores and sell the goods cheap to people who can't afford retail. 20 years before the film, Riley wrote a song by the same name with his hip hop group the Coup. The song is a love letter to shoplifters, or boosters, as they're called, which he says he knows a thing or two about.

[Boots Riley]

Well, I have been a broke rapper for a long time, having to stay fly, you know, it's just a job requirement.

[Tonya Moseley]

Also, we'll hear from actor Will Sharp. He starred in Lena Dunham's series Too Much and the film A Real Pain. And now he stars as Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart in a new adaptation of Amadeus. And David Biancooli reviews a new special by David Attenborough that's coming up on FRESH AIR weekend. This is FRESH AIR weekend. I'm Tonya Moseley. My guest today is filmmaker, rapper and community organizer Boots Riley. His work for the last few decades has circled the same that capitalism produces the contradictions we live with and that art can make them visible. He made that argument as the frontman of the Oakland based hip hop group the Coup, and in his screen work with his 2018 film Sorry to Bother your, a surreal satire about a black telemarketer who finds success after he learns to use his white voice. And he's making the argument again in his latest film, I Love Boosters, which was first a love song he wrote 20 years ago about shoplifters, or boosters, as they're called.

[Boots Riley]

A booster is a person who jacks from the retail and sells it in the hood for dirt cheap resale. In these hard times, they press on like lean nails. In all of my experience that sex has been female. Back in elementary my shoes used to wrap. Every time my soles hit the street, they would flap. Then in high school, Langston Anderson were capped cause my jacket didn't have a brand name on the back. Years later, this lady took me to her park. It looked like the Macy's sportswear department clothes on the chairs on the couch and the carpet. A20 had me icy like in the Arctic. If it wasn't for the hard work of a booster, most couldn't go to the clubs that were used to if you don't fit the dress code, they'll boost you like people who get dressed up, won't you?

[Tonya Moseley]

I love Boosters. The film stars Keke Palmer as the leader of a crew of women shoplifters in the Bay Area who steal from luxury fashion stores and sell the goods cheap to people who can't afford retail. Demi Moore plays the fashion designer whose stores they're robbing from, and Lakeith Stanfield plays a figure who threatens the whole operation. As you heard, before Riley made films, he made music. The Coup released their first album, kill my landlord, in 1993. Before that, he was a labor and community organizer, a UPS worker and a telemarketer, a job that would eventually become the subject of Sorry to bother your Boots. Riley, welcome back to FRESH air.

[Boots Riley]

Thanks. Thanks for having me.

[Tonya Moseley]

You know, I have watched I Love Boosters twice, and both times I was thinking, what does Boots know about boosters?

[Boots Riley]

Well, I have been a broke rapper for a long time, having to stay fly, you know, just a job requirement. And so I've definitely had to deal with a lot of boosters. When I wrote that song 20 years ago, it was a lifetime of experience. So. And also just saw how much of a service it provided a community who's, in my case, the black community. I don't think they only exist in the black community, a community whose style is inspiring, these things that are costing more than people can afford with the income that they have.

[Tonya Moseley]

That is the interesting it's not an inversion, but it is the thing that we sit with as the audience because we are living this world through the boosters themselves. And so we are able to see from the inside how they're interpreted from the outside and what's really happening. But, you know, that term boosters, I had never heard that before. I think I heard like, okay, in Detroit, I know somebody with the hookup or, you know, I know a guy. Yeah.

[Boots Riley]

It's funny because online there's this whole debate about where that term came from. There's people in New York saying we came up with the term. There's people in obviously in the Bay Area saying we came up with the term. And there's people in Chicago saying, no, no, boosters, we did that. And such. And such. So there's this whole debate. And, you know, obviously I come from the Bay Area, so I'M going to shoot shots on that. However. Yeah, I think it was all over and definitely people had different ways of calling it, but you know, I have no idea where it came from. There's somebody that could probably call in and tell us the etymology of that.

[Tonya Moseley]

Exactly. And I obviously am out of the loop, but I want to talk a little bit about what you were saying about the boosters place and how they serve the community. And let's talk about that a little bit through the character Corvette herself, who's played by Keke Palmer. And she isn't just a booster, she is a designer. And Christy Smith, the fashion mogul that she admires, who's played by Demi Moore, steals one of her designs. And basically this woman is hailed as a genius, but she's stealing from black and brown communities. When was the first time you kind of realized that idea that like what is being stolen is actually maybe yours in the first place?

[Boots Riley]

You know, I think you'd have to back it up to when I was 14 or 15 and I got involved in supporting people who were organizing a cannery workers strike in Watsonville, California. So I got invited to a youth event based on that. And you know, they, someone was like, hey, you know, we're gonna have this thing will be by at noon on Saturday. And back then there's no cell phones, there's no anything, so you could totally ghost somebody a lot easier. And I planned on it. So I was like, yeah, come by. I'm, I'm not going to be there. And so, but I forgot about it. And so they came by with a van full of 14 year old girls.

[Tonya Moseley]

Yeah.

[Boots Riley]

And they, and they, they were like, hey, you want to go to the beach? And I was like, oh yeah, I definitely want to go to the beach with y'.

[Will Sharpe]

All.

[Boots Riley]

And they were like, but first we're going to stop and stop off and support the Watsonville cannery workers strike. And then so that's kind of how I got hoodwinked into it. Because I entered the van with, you know, flirtatious goals. And then I met these girls who were like, they were talking about things that were on the news world events, these sorts and things that I purposely was trying to ignore because I didn't have a sense that I could have any effect on it. Right. And they were talking about it and I realized that they felt that they could have something to do with they had what happened. Yeah. And that, and it was connected to this cannery workers strike that we were going to. That this was not only about Someone trying to get higher wages. But it was about how you might be able to create a movement that has the power to affect those who are in power. And it started to me talking, Started the conversation about what power actually is under this system. So I went in that one trip from wanting to get with these girls to wanting to be them.

[Tonya Moseley]

Yes. To wanting to be them and understanding, because they're opening up your world. But you grew up in a household with a father who also was teaching you through his actions, being an organizer and working in Detroit on behalf of the auto workers. And then.

[Boots Riley]

Yeah, but the thing is, is that one thing that I think was good is my parents didn't like, say, here, you have to learn this, and blah, blah, blah. Cause I probably would have later thought of it as their stuff and not mine.

[Tonya Moseley]

It's interesting about the casting of this film because you've got some real big heavy hitters. You've got Don Cheadle. You've got Demi Moore, Keke Palme, who's been around since she was 11. She's been famous.

[Boots Riley]

Oh, yeah. Lakeith Stanfield.

[Tonya Moseley]

And Lakeith Stanfield, part of whom you made famous with, you know, sorry to Bother your, but he's since gone on and done so many things. And what's interesting is I interviewed Tessa Thompson a little while ago, and she told me the story of how you almost took her out of the cast of Sorry to Bother your, because she had gotten a Marvel movie and you felt like she might be too exposed and too well known.

[Boots Riley]

It wasn't just the Marvel movie, to be fair. But.

[Tonya Moseley]

Yeah, but the fact that she was well known. What has changed for you in this idea? Because in this film, I mean, you've got all these heavy hitters.

[Boots Riley]

I think maybe just more confidence in myself. Like I saw with Tessa, like how we made that a very specific thing. You know what I'm saying?

[Tonya Moseley]

It worked.

[Boots Riley]

Yeah. And that I can write it in a way that we can shape it in a way where it does have its own specificity. And I think maybe I was more reacting to it how a lot of movies do. Like, it's the George Clooney movies. George Clooney breaking in the Banks. It's George Clooney being a sniper. It's George Clooney. And I was like, I don't want the. It's George Clooney doing this thing. I want it to be this character. Right. And I think that what I've realized is that even though the star of it all stars, how big someone is, can make people come to a movie for that. Then it's my job to make them forget what they know about that person. Right. What they know about that actor. And it's also the actor's job. So I'm picking people that can pull that off.

[Tonya Moseley]

Why was Kiki the person that had to be Corvette?

[Boots Riley]

Oh, I saw how in other movies they were like, okay, she does this one thing or these two things, this certain cadence. And they were like missing this whole other piece of her.

[Tonya Moseley]

Of Kiki?

[Boots Riley]

Yeah. And not in all things. They did this. She's, she's, she's shown herself. That's how I knew it. Right. And also I met with her and I could see this thing and her willingness to go there, you know. And in the same way that often I'm trying to cast against type in that way, I saw with this, like, this is a chance to see someone do stuff that they haven't done before. And that she has this whole skill set that people were underappreciating.

[Tonya Moseley]

You've said that you love stories that live inside of a contradiction. And what strikes me about this moment now in your life is you might have the most contradictions of all that you are living in this moment. I mean, you have produced a $20 million film, you're inside the system, critiquing the system. But I'd like to know, how are you thinking about that?

[Boots Riley]

Yeah, well, I think that we're all inside the system. I think if I had a job, I've had many jobs at retail. I've had many jobs, you know, doing stuff. I've constructed redwood decks, all sorts of things like that. And I'm inside the system like there's no getting out of it until we have a movement that creates a whole different system.

[Tonya Moseley]

But in particular though, I mean, when your first movie, Sorry to Bother your came out, it was like a breakthrough of, oh, he is really speaking to the system. He's talking truth to power. It's very. An anti capitalist movie. But now you're like, you're entering the seasoned successful role almost to the point where you are the system, you're part of it.

[Boots Riley]

Yeah, we are. And I think what my films and my music has always said is that we all are the system. And my goal with my art is to instigate class struggle. So the reason that people know about me, for instance, is because of. Originally because of the music and now because of the movies. But from day one with the music we were on EMI Records, no longer existing corporation, but they were maybe one of the most owned by a lot of heinous multinational corporation. Multinational corporation with investments all over the place. Right. The reason is, is because I want this out on a platform to talk to people who, you know, they're not seeking out alternative things. They're not going to the punk DIY spots.

[Tonya Moseley]

So you gotta get inside in order to get to the people that you want to talk to.

[Boots Riley]

But I wouldn't even put it that way because we're, we're inside already. Like, there's no getting out of there. There's no make. Even if you make a commune in the woods by virtue of you not actually changing the way things are, you're living inside capitalism.

[Tonya Moseley]

Our guest today is filmmaker, rapper and organizer Boots Riley. His new film is titled I Love Boosters. We'll continue our conversation after a short break. I'm Tonya Moseley and this is FRESH AIR weekend. This is FRESH AIR weekend. I'm Tonya Mosley. Let's get back to my interview with Boots Riley. His new film, I Love Boosters, is a satirical look at a crew of women shoplifters in the Bay Area. Before Riley was a filmmaker, he spent more than two decades fronting the political hip hop group the Coup, whose albums include Kill My Landlord, Steal this Album, and Party Music. And before he was a rapper, Riley loaded packages onto airplanes for ups. And before that, he was a teenage labor organizer. He came up alongside radical politics. His father, Walter Reilly, is a civil rights and criminal defense attorney in Oakland who organized auto workers in Detroit before law school. You know, Boots, you have talked a lot about your father and there's so many parallels between you and him. But, you know, we're recording this the day after Mother's Day, and it had me thinking about your mother because there's something that you said years ago about your late mom that has stuck with me. You said that she put her hopes and dreams aside and that watching her life taught you that many women don't have a chance to realize theirs.

[Boots Riley]

I don't remember saying that, but it sounds right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Tonya Moseley]

Can you tell me about your mom?

[Boots Riley]

So my mother was born to a black pre beat poet named Lawrence Patterson and a German Jewish mother named Anita Pinner. And in New York and she was born in the 40s. So just even then being mixed, it wasn't something let's is as prevalent as now. And she got pregnant with my sister when she was 15 and kind of was left alone to care for her. Yeah, yeah. And before that time, she was part of the children's Theater workshop that became Sesame Street.

[Tonya Moseley]

How? In what way?

[Boots Riley]

She was one of the cast members.

[Ann Marie Baldonado]

Really?

[Tonya Moseley]

What was her role?

[Boots Riley]

I don't know. I just saw a picture and she told me about it. Because this would come up all the time about. Because she then had four kids, and so she would sometimes let folks know. Not just sometimes, a lot of times let folks know what she gave. Well, what she gave up.

[David Biancooli]

Oh.

[Boots Riley]

And I didn't find out till after she died. She wrote a lot of poetry by reading her journals. Don't read your mom's journals after she dies. You'll find a lot about other men and very specific things that you don't want to know about your mom. But.

[Tonya Moseley]

But you also found out that she was a poet.

[Boots Riley]

So, you know, and her mother also, though, was a poet. Her mother also was involved in theater and was the director of Oakland Ensemble Theater. Cause she then later came, even though her mom moved away from her when she was a teenage mother, she came to. To be like, no, you're going to help me with this. And she moved to Berkeley. That's how she got to the West Coast.

[Tonya Moseley]

So your grandmother, your mother's mother is what introduced you about these stories about the theater in Oakland. That was your maternal grandmother.

[Boots Riley]

Yeah, yeah. But it was. It definitely did not make me want to do theater.

[Tonya Moseley]

That whole experience.

[Boots Riley]

Yeah, just like in the sense that it was boring old people stuff, you know, like somebody sitting on the couch, arguing with each other. There was always a slap. Like, I think the actors of a certain age, they always want to slap.

[Tonya Moseley]

Right.

[Boots Riley]

They'll be like, should they slap me? You know, something like that.

[Tonya Moseley]

That's the action.

[Boots Riley]

Right. Or that's like the emotional thing.

[Tonya Moseley]

One of the things I'll say, Boots, that struck me, though, about that quote that you don't remember that you said about your mom.

[Boots Riley]

I mean, it sounds true.

[Tonya Moseley]

When did you realize that, though, that, wow, my mom maybe didn't have a fully realized life. Was that something that you were. Had the emotional intelligence as a child, or was it when you were older?

[Boots Riley]

Well, I think, you know, she told us. And also that was what she was doing later was like, okay, I'm doing this now because I've had this other life. Right. She was a round artist. She was a round musician. I was around jazz musicians. John Handy, you know, like, all great ones.

[Tonya Moseley]

Really?

[Boots Riley]

Yeah. Oliver Johnson. One time she took us to France, and we were with all these jazz musicians who were from Oakland. You know, that was around the same time. I was 15. So I saw all this stuff. At the same time, I did also see, like, oh, these people don't grow up. Like, I had this idea about artists and musicians specifically. Like, there's a arrested development compared to the rest of the rest of whoever I knew. Right. And so I was like, I definitely don't want to be a musician because

[Tonya Moseley]

I want to grow. I want to evolve.

[Boots Riley]

Yeah. I felt like it was just. And it was maybe the particular people she was around. Right. So. But my point is, is that she wanted to be around the excitement of creating things. And so it took, you know, all of these things about art and music that she was exposing me to. And so there was definitely a huge artistic influence from that and from her. Her whole side of things. But it was. Yeah, very much I could see, like, she wasn't making things in the way that she wanted.

[Tonya Moseley]

Maybe not fulfilled.

[Boots Riley]

Yeah.

[Tonya Moseley]

Which it strikes me with. I love Boosters that this is a movie about women who are creators and their dreams are happening against a system that won't let them.

[Boots Riley]

Yeah, yeah. And I mean, that story is just so prevalent around just people. I know, you're right. You're pointing out some connection that I didn't think about. But I think for the same reason that I wrote the song, I love Boosters, I wanted to spend time with those characters and they seem interested. The real version of those characters, they still do exist.

[Tonya Moseley]

How do you think your radical 15 year old self or 25 year old self would look at yourself today?

[Boots Riley]

They'd be like, are you kidding me? You're making Star wars for radical politics. When can I see it?

[Tonya Moseley]

That's how you describe this film. Is Star wars for radical politics. You feel like this is the. This is the Star wars for radical politics.

[Boots Riley]

Yeah. Well, I mean, but to be fair, Star wars was supposed to be the Star wars for radical politics. George Lucas. And I've confirmed this with him in person and you can find him online talking about it. I just want to drop the fact that I have met George Lucas.

[Tonya Moseley]

Right. And that you've had this conversation is

[Boots Riley]

that he originally was supposed to do what became Apocalypse Now.

[Tonya Moseley]

Yeah.

[Boots Riley]

And after American Graffiti, he had this hit. He figured he could do whatever he wanted. So it was based on Heart of Darkness. So he was doing Heart of Darkness, but where the main characters were the Viet Cong.

[Tonya Moseley]

Yep.

[Boots Riley]

And the person that they were going to get their version of Kurtz was someone who had betrayed them and started working with the United States and became evil in that they were like, it's too radical. You're not Gonna. You're never gonna make this movie. Nobody's gonna fund it. And he couldn't get funding, and he was like, how about if I put it in space?

[Tonya Moseley]

Yeah. And that is a story that, like, I can see why you hold onto that. I think that's really interesting for you, though. I just wonder, you know, that uses, like, space and science fiction and things. And your art is much more on the nose. It's much more on the head. It's much more. It's using metaphor, but it's telling you,

[Boots Riley]

yeah, here's my thing. I feel like as long as I can keep you, like, so I've just done a. A tour since south by Southwest. I've played this movie 35 times, maybe, and I've sat through it every time. Boisterous laughter Sometimes I'm worried people aren't getting the dialogue because they're laughing over certain parts, and, you know, it's crazy. So my thing is, in the same way with my music, if I keep you dancing, I got you, right, in this case, all of that stuff, whatever. If I keep you laughing and keep you interested and keep you on the edge of your seat and feeling surprised and engaged, then I have license to do almost anything. But it ends up being a balance. Because if I'm going to do this thing that says, hey, it's like A, B and C, I have to have something that's still pulling you in. And so that's actually been the thing that I've honed for 30 years. This is my second film, but it's not my second thing.

[Tonya Moseley]

Right.

[Boots Riley]

And I think what makes the film work is that it just works on a basic level. And then you think about, like, oh, this is what he's saying. But it's very clear what I'm saying. It's not. It's not ambiguous. There's no, yeah, yeah. And I like art that does that.

[Tonya Moseley]

Boots Riley, thank you so much for this film and thank you for this conversation.

[Boots Riley]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Tonya Moseley]

Boots Riley's new film is I Love Boosters. It opens in theaters on May 22. May 8 marked the 100th birthday of Sir David Attenborough. Scientists from London's Natural History Museum noted the occasion by naming a new genus and species of a parasitic wasp after him. And he was honored on television with a special celebrating Attenborough's contributions to the history of nature documentaries focusing on his favorite series, Life on Attenborough's Greatest Adventure, which premiered May 6 on PBS. It's available at PBS.org and the PBS app. Our TV critic David Biancooley has this review.

[David Biancooli]

I have been lucky enough to have had a long career making natural history programs, but there was one series that changed everything.

[NPR Narrator]

Life on Earth for more than 70 years, David Attenborough has been exploring the planet and its living inhabitants, filming and marveling at a world full of natural treasures. In the process, he's become a natural treasure himself. As host and as narrator. His whispery, enthusiastic voice is instantly recognizable, and his nature series over the decades have been widely popular, from the Trials of Life and the Life of Birds to the Planet Earth, the Blue Planet and this year's Ocean with David Attenborough. His first on camera work was in the mid-1950s as host of the BBC nature series Zoo Quest. That program wasn't shown in the United States, but a taste of it is available in the new documentary Life on Attenborough's Greatest Adventure. Here he is on Zoo Quest as a very young man, but apart from

[David Biancooli]

lizards and chameleons, there were many other smaller, fascinating creatures to be seen in

[Boots Riley]

that patch of forest.

[NPR Narrator]

Eventually, he gave up traveling the world with a film crew to become an administrator for the BBC. He commissioned such ambitious and pivotal projects as Kenneth Clark's 13 part Civilization series, but his concept of TV eventually drove him out from behind the desk and back into the field. I interviewed him for a book in 1991 and he said then of his BBC executive approach, it was our responsibility to say, what haven't we done and why aren't we doing it? And one of the things no one in TV was doing was a global TV series that told the entire story of evolution. Attenborough continued. The wonderful thing about making natural history documentaries is that there is something in any sequence for everybody, at every conceivable level of age, education and interest. So he embarked upon Life on Earth, which began production 50 years ago. It took more than three years to film, visiting 40 countries and capturing more than 600 species. It was the way it was filmed, in part, that was so groundbreaking. It used new lenses from Canon, new color film from Kodak, and experimented with new developments in film speeds, time lapse and microphotography. Life on Earth premiered on PBS in 1982 and was seen globally by over 500 million people in more than 100 territories. This new special has Attenborough looking back on life on Earth and literally looking at it as it's projected in a screening room. He beams with pride and joy and with good reason. One sequence, perhaps the most famous of his career has him in Rwanda, crouching a respectful distance from a mother gorilla and her offspring. He's about to begin a prepared speech about the importance of opposable thumbs when the mother approaches and stares right into his face while her babies crawl on top of him affectionately. In Life on Earth, Attenborough says there

[David Biancooli]

is more meaning and mutual understanding and exchanging a glance with a gorilla

[Tonya Moseley]

and

[David Biancooli]

any other animal I know.

[NPR Narrator]

And in this new special, looking back on that very sequence, he says this

[David Biancooli]

obviously touched extraordinary, really. I mean, it was one of the most privileged moments of our life, really.

[NPR Narrator]

Attenborough's Greatest Adventure tells behind the scenes stories of the dangers Attenborough and his crew faced while filming Life on Ear. Surprisingly, most of those dangers came not from wild animals, but from humans, poachers and soldiers, gunfire in Rwanda, and threatened imprisonment in Saddam Hussein's Iraq. It also tells the story of how some of its most amazing TV moments were filmed. That's reason enough to seek out this special, which allows Attenborough to put his amazing career into perspective. But there's also his closing message, which really got to me and which I'll close with as well. Thank you, David Attenborough, for a lifetime of priceless television.

[David Biancooli]

Natural history Television has produced an understanding in the audience about the importance of the natural world. It's an understanding of the part that humanity plays in the way the world operates and the way in which we are totally dependent upon the natural world for every breath of air we take and every mouthful of food that we eat comes from the natural world. And that if we damage the natural world, we damage ourselves.

[Tonya Moseley]

David Biancooli is Fresh air's TV critic. Coming up, actor Will Sharp. He played a tech bro in season two of the White Lotus, and now he's Mozart in a new adaptation of Amadeus. This is FRESH AIR weekend. This is FRESH AIR Weekend. I'm Tonya Moseley. FRESH AIR producer Ann Marie Baldonado has our next interview. Here she is.

[Ann Marie Baldonado]

Our guest is award winning actor, writer and director Will Sharp. You may have first encountered him in the second season of the White Lotus, where he played Ethan, a newly wealthy tech founder whose marriage may be unraveling. For that role, he received an Emmy nomination for best supporting actor in a drama. But Sharpe had been noticed for his work already. He's been nominated for numerous baftas. That's the UK equivalent of the Oscars and Emmys for writing and creating shows like Flowers, a comedy about a family struggling with depression, grief and loneliness. He received a BAFTA for acting in the BBC Netflix series Jirihaji. More recently, he's appeared in Lena Dunham's series Too Much and the Oscar winning film A Real Pain. Now he stars as Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart in a new limited series, Amadeus, adapted from the 1979 stage play. The play was also the basis of the 1984 film. It tells a fictionalized story of the rivalry between Mozart and the court composer Antonio Salieri, who's played by Paul Bettany. Salieri becomes increasingly consumed by envy after realizing Mozart possesses the musical brilliance Salieri desperately prays for, but can never attain. Here's a scene from the beginning of the series. 25 year old Mozart has arrived in Vienna hoping to build his reputation by composing operas and performing for the emperor's court. He meets Salieri at a court celebration. Salieri, a fan of Mozart's work, is shocked to find that Mozart is immature and irreverent. Not a pious genius like his work would suggest. Here's Mozart introducing himself.

[Will Sharpe]

Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart. Antonio Salieri, the court composer.

[David Biancooli]

Yes.

[Will Sharpe]

This is incredibly fortuitous. The whole reason why I came to Vienna was to write for the Imperial Opera.

[David Biancooli]

Well, well, there's a process to all of that.

[Boots Riley]

I wouldn't.

[Tonya Moseley]

They're a bit.

[Will Sharpe]

Todd, you must at least be able to get me one meeting with the Emperor.

[Boots Riley]

It's a very busy man.

[Will Sharpe]

What could be more important than this? The meeting.

[Boots Riley]

You. Well, I believe he's currently drawing up plans to ensure our nation's claim on

[David Biancooli]

the kingdom of Bavaria.

[Boots Riley]

I suppose that might be taking up some of his time.

[Will Sharpe]

Please, just one meeting. I'll be forever in your debt, obviously.

[Ann Marie Baldonado]

Will Sharp, welcome to Fresh Air.

[Will Sharpe]

Hello. Thanks for having me.

[Ann Marie Baldonado]

What did you do to prepare for this role? Did you learn about the historic figure? Even if this story of Mozart and Salieri was always a reimagining.

[Will Sharpe]

So I guess, I mean, the main preparation, I guess was learning to play the piano pieces.

[Boots Riley]

Which you did.

[Will Sharpe]

Which I did, yeah. And that was like six, seven months of piano lessons and you know, just drilling specifically the pieces on camera and then also, I guess preparing for the conducting scenes where we tried to come up with a kind of hybrid language where in the day it would have been very metronomic, quite unexpressive. And obviously now we're used to seeing, you know, slightly more freeform seeming, very expressive conducting. And so we tried to find a language that blended the two, I think, because so much of what is expressed in the show, for my character in particular, you know, he's not very good at communicating with words. So a lot for timeless story or what is going on within him is expressed through the big musical set pieces. So there was that kind of practical preparation, which I actually found quite helpful because it was a way of meditating on the character without sort of getting in my head. It was like something very specific and mechanical to practice. And you find yourself thinking about the story but not overthinking. It was almost like a kind of meditative practice or something. And then I did find that listening to Mozart's music was an incredibly helpful way of just kind of sinking into it. And it's not like a resource that you normally have. And even just thinking about the sheer range of his music, but also of his seemingly, of his personality, where he's just very light and funny and playful at one end and super grand and dark and operatic at the other, and trying to marry all of that into one person found it just kind of, you know, if I had an hour free walking around Budapest with that in my ears, was quite helpful, too.

[Ann Marie Baldonado]

There's part of the series when Mozart is composing the opera the Marriage of Figaro. He's kind of estranged from his wife, Constanze. He's left Vienna to try to write, and he's with his collaborator in a pub. I'm making it sound kind of modern, but he's speaking to a woman in a pub, and it's a woman he just met, and he plays some of the music he has for her. And the woman asks if he's writing the opera for his wife, and Mozart says yes. And then the woman says, couldn't you just talk to her? And Mozart says, this is how I talk. And I was wondering about that idea, that idea that someone can't talk or express themselves in life and instead they express themselves or express what they really feel through their music, through a work of art, and trying to say what they can't say. And I was just wondering what you thought about that part of Mozart's struggle.

[Will Sharpe]

I felt like it became a really important piece of it for me. And actually that line, I think, just came out in the rehearsing of the scene or as we shot. Trying to sort of get to the bottom, I think, of who he was and what his predicament was, I guess. And more and more felt like, you know, enjoyably, like he doesn't know how to read a room. There's a lot written kind of speculatively about neurodiversity. And I tried not to sort of be too literal about that or to retro diagnose him, but definitely wanted to play him as slightly other. And he doesn't understand social norms or can't understand why people are offended if he said something that he's like, well, I think that's true. So what's the problem? So he's just kind of like things that are simple to everyone else, he can't do. And he can't communicate successfully in a kind of ordinary, normal way. But through his music, he's expressing a lot of what he isn't able to say day to day. And so I guess that's why those sequences felt quite important in terms of understanding him as a character and also understanding his story.

[Ann Marie Baldonado]

I want to ask you about this series Too Much. Created by Lena Dunham. It's loosely based on Lena Dunham's experience moving from New York to London and meeting her husband, Louis Felber, who also co created the series and writes the music for the show. Megan Stalter plays the New Yorker moving to London after a breakup. And she meets your character Felix, who's a musician and recovering addict. The characters meet cute and they fall in love, but their relationship isn't easy. How would you describe your character, Felix?

[Will Sharpe]

Felix, I guess, like he just seemed like somebody who on the surface of it is quite. Maybe seems cool or open, but actually quite quickly you realize he's a bit of a nerd. And also there's a lot going on that he doesn't want you to see. And you know, a lot of the series. What I love about it is, is kind of about how your previous experiences in relationships can get in the way of your present day one and how, you know, can you get beyond the baggage that you carry with you. And each of those characters have, you know, do have baggage and are sort of contending with it.

[Ann Marie Baldonado]

I want to play a clip from Too Much. In this scene, Megan Stalter's character Jess and Felix are running to get to a wedding in the countryside. Felix is someone who grew up very posh, went to boarding school until his family lost their money and he has to leave because they couldn't pay for school anymore. But he's still friends with a lot of the rich people he met as a kid. But he doesn't feel comfortable with them. Here's this scene where they're running to get to the church. Are you sure my outfit's okay? I've only been inside of a church

[Will Sharpe]

once since To Donate Blood.

[Tonya Moseley]

I feel like I should be wearing

[Ann Marie Baldonado]

a hat or something.

[Boots Riley]

Like a beanie.

[Will Sharpe]

Of course. Okay, listen, you probably haven't seen me like this before, but I actually feel pretty, like, weird. Like, I kind of feel a bit fizzy. You know what I mean? Like, kind of tight. Like, white noisy.

[Boots Riley]

I mean, nervous.

[Will Sharpe]

Yeah, maybe you look like you want to pass out. Woogie and Polly. Like, these aren't really my people. Okay, well, why don't we just go home? I could eat cheese Toasties or something. I don't know. I feel so weirdly loyal to the groom because he was the only boy in my year who didn't call me Fear Felix Rame.

[Boots Riley]

That's like a racist nickname.

[Will Sharpe]

Yes, a racist nickname. I'm not saying we can't be ourselves. I'm just saying, like, I don't know. You know what I'm saying? Right. Just sort of not our full selves.

[Ann Marie Baldonado]

Yes. Over and out. I agree, Mr. Felix, that's a scene from the Netflix show Too Much. Lena Dunham said that she loved having you on set, not only because of your acting, but because you're also a writer, a show creator and director. And she said that you contributed a lot to the character Felix, including the bit in that scene that the kids at the school called him Felix Raman. Can you talk about collaborating with Lena Dunham on this show and on your character?

[Will Sharpe]

I mean, I think that's very generous of her to say, but she's sort of the agent of all of it, really. But I did feel very listened to, and I guess it did feel like we were always working together to find who he was, even from, like, our very first cup of tea to talk about it, you know, in London. And she definitely would. She has this, like, incredibly fast story brain and is able to retain information and encounters in a very sort of, like, formidable way. And sometimes we'd have, like, a very offhand conversation about a scene or an episode that was coming up, and then I'd see rewrites that seemed to kind of work that conversation into it. But, yeah, with the Felix Reman thing, his name was Felix Rehman in the show, and I think I just was like, there is absolutely no way if his name was Felix Reman and he's half Japanese and he went to that kind of school, that he wouldn't be called Felix Raman. There's just absolutely no way that he wouldn't be called Felix Rahman.

[Ann Marie Baldonado]

Now, you were born in England, and then your family moved to Japan for your early childhood before then moving back to England. Could you describe what your childhood neighborhood was like when you're living those early years in Japan?

[Will Sharpe]

I mean, very urban compared to like suburban Surrey where we moved to, in, in England. I mean, I remember like the sound of the cicadas in the summer. And I don't know, a lot of it is quite a. For me, like the sound of train stations in Tokyo or like near my grandma's house who just turned 100 last week. You know, there's like a chime that goes off at kind of 5pm every evening. And a lot of it, weirdly, I've not had this thought before. Maybe it's because I'm doing a radio show. So my brain is in like listening.

[Ann Marie Baldonado]

Sound is so important.

[Will Sharpe]

But it does feel like a lot of it. It's quite, yeah, aural. But there's definitely like. I'd often talk about like a kind of layer of nostalgia that I feel like is unavailable to me in England, where I can sort of reminisce up to a point. But there's like a sort of plane of memory or feeling or something that is. That is left in Japan. And I would only get when I've. When I've been. When I've gone back to Japan. And it's a weird thing where I think a lot of, you know, people who have lived in different countries or who are mixed race, you do sometimes end up with this feeling that you're not really sure where your home is or, or how to identify. And so, you know, if I go back to Japan, I can speak the language, but kind of in a very wobbly way where I sound a bit like a 10 year old still. And I still feel like a very gaijin, you know, Western version of a Japanese person. I feel like a sort of foreigner, I suppose. And in the same way in England, because I look Japanese, I've always felt a little bit like, yeah, like an outsider trying to kind of learn. Learn how people communicate in England, which can be sort of quite complicated at the best of times.

[Ann Marie Baldonado]

I want to ask you about the 2024 film a real Pain. Jesse Eisenberg wrote, directed and starred in the film. It's about two cousins who used to be close but aren't anymore. They're played by Jesse Eisenberg and Kieran Culkin, who won an Oscar for his role in the film. And to try to connect the. The cousins go to Poland on a Holocaust history tour to honor their late grandmother and to visit the house that she had to flee. You play James, the tour guide, who isn't Jewish but is a historian of Jewish history. I want to play a scene from A Real Pain. The group has Been on the trip for a while and is traveling between Holocaust sites via train. And the group is traveling first class. Kieran Culkin's character, Benji, he's a big personality and at times questions the tour, questions his cousin, questions you as their guide. And here, Benji is uncomfortable traveling in the comfort. In comfort on the train, thinking about what his ancestors had to endure. Benji, played by Kieran Culkin, speaks first.

[Boots Riley]

Eighty years ago, we would have been herded into the backs of these things of cattle.

[Will Sharpe]

Got it.

[Tonya Moseley]

Okay, Benji, I don't think anybody here

[Boots Riley]

wants to hear that right now. Okay. Why not? Why doesn't anyone want to hear it?

[Tonya Moseley]

Because it's depressing.

[Will Sharpe]

Okay, look, it's okay. You're raising an interesting sensitivity here. It does sometimes come up on these tours. You're staying in fancy hotels, eating posh food, and at the same time, you're looking back at the horrors of your family history. It can conjure up confusing feelings of discomfort and discordance and, dare I say, even a kind of guilt. You know, you're comparing your own life.

[Boots Riley]

I don't.

[Will Sharpe]

I don't feel guilt.

[David Biancooli]

No.

[Will Sharpe]

Nor should you, Mark.

[Boots Riley]

Why would I feel guilt?

[Will Sharpe]

No, I'm not saying that you have to feel guilt.

[Boots Riley]

Well, because our lives are so pampered and privileged. Like, we completely cut ourselves off from anyone else's true pain.

[Ann Marie Baldonado]

That's a scene from a real pain. And in that scene, we also heard Jesse Eisenberg, Jennifer Grey, and Daniel Aresky. That's just one of the scenes where Kieran Culkin's character questions the tour and questions what this group is doing. What was it like filming those scenes with Kieran Culkin? I would think it's very heightened.

[Boots Riley]

Yeah.

[Will Sharpe]

You know, he's an electric performer, and it was kind of fun. And like, I remember on that scene, Jesse, as he always did, came in with a very specific plan about how to shoot it and where everyone would be and how it was going to be choreographed because, you know, we're on a train, so the options are limited. And Kieran was like, hang on a minute. Why would I stand there? Or, let's rehearse it. Let's see what happens. And so even before we'd started rolling in a kind of metadramatic way, they'd fallen into the same dynamic as the characters. And Jesse would, of course, like, very wryly be like, well, this is perfect, because you have no respect for me as a director, and nor does the character have any respect for me, so this is going to work great. And it did work great. And it really did feel like because we were traveling through these places, it felt like we really were at this little unit going on this journey. And it's just exciting to act opposite Ciaran. Some of my favorite scenes were, you know, getting to go head to head with Benji. And you sort of know he's always going to bring it and it's always going to work. But then he's also very playful and kind of doesn't mind pushing the edges of it, which I think sometimes makes for really unexpected choices that can lead to, you know, interesting things happening on camera.

[Ann Marie Baldonado]

And so you have to kind of react a different way each time.

[Will Sharpe]

Yeah, a little bit. But that's fun. And it suited the character for him to have that energy.

[Ann Marie Baldonado]

Well, Will Sharpe, thank you so much for joining us.

[Will Sharpe]

Thank you for having me. It was a pleasure.

[Tonya Moseley]

Will Sharpe stars in the new limited series Amadeus, which is available on Starz. He spoke with producer Anne Marie Baldonado. Fresh air weekend is produced by teresa madden. Fresh air's executive producer is sam brigger. Our technical director and engineer is audrey bentham. Our engineer today is adam stanischewski. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by phyllis myers, roberta shorrock, ann marie baldonado, lauren krenzel, monique nazareth, thea chaloner, susan yakundi, anna bauman and nico gonzalez whistler. Our digital media producer is molly cv nesper with terry gross. I'm tanya mosley.