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- [00:00]
Host (Anne Marie Baldonado / Terry Gross)
This message comes from ixl.
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Rose Byrne
IXL provides personalized learning and powerful insights
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Host (Anne Marie Baldonado / Terry Gross)
that help teachers boost achievement and understand student progress in real time. Learn more@ixl.com NPR from WHYY in Philadelphia,
- [00:17]
Tonya Mosley
this is FRESH AIR Weekend. I'm Tonya Moseley. Today, actor Alfre Woodard. She stars in a new Netflix sci fi series, the Burrows, from the creators of Stranger Things. She plays a retired journalist living in a senior community where the residents are being preyed on by something otherworldly. The Duffer Brothers have said the show exists because they couldn't understand why no one had made another cocoon. Plus, TV critic David B. Cooley has a review of the series. Also, we hear from Rose Byrne, who starred in Bridesmaids, Neighbors and if I Had Legs, I'd Kick you, about a woman who spots spiraling trying to care for her sick daughter while her life is unraveling.
- [00:59]
Rose Byrne
She really plays with the edge of consciousness, I think, in many ways and tapped into the monster within and the fear of being a parent and the horror of being a parent.
- [01:09]
Tonya Mosley
That's coming up on FRESH AIR Weekend.
- [01:12]
Rose Byrne
This message comes from Sattva. How you sleep shapes how you live. Restorative sleep can sharpen, focus, stabilize mood and support long term health. Voted best luxury mattress by Sleep Foundation, Saatva's handcrafted luxury mattresses are designed to help people sleep more deeply and recover more fully at prices below traditional retail. Save up to $625 this Memorial Day at saatva.com NPR this message comes from
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NPR Sponsor Announcer
NPR sponsor Harry Potter, the official film podcast from HBO Max. 25 years after the first Harry Potter movie came out, it's the perfect time to rediscover these beloved films. The Harry Film Podcast brings you behind the scenes, starting with the philosopher's stone, uncover hidden details and hear interviews with the people who brought the wizarding world to life. Watch on HBO Max, or listen wherever you get your podcasts. This message comes from NPR sponsor Carvana. Your time is worth more than a waiting game. Carvana gives you a transparent offer for your car in minutes and picks it up from your door. Sell your car today@carvana.com pickup fees may apply.
- [02:25]
Tonya Mosley
This is FRESH AIR WEEKEND. I'm Tonya Moseley. The Duffer Brothers, the team behind the Netflix series Stranger Things, are back as executive producers of a new Netflix series. This eight part series is called the Burroughs and it too is a show about sinister forces, mysterious creatures and a group of neighborhood misfits who emerge as heroes. This new series was created by Jeffrey Addis and Will Matthews. Our TV critic David Biancooli has seen the entire series and says it's well worth seeing. But as much for the cast as the story, here's his review.
- [03:02]
David Biancolli (TV Critic)
Part of the appeal of Stranger Things was that its protagonists were quirky outsiders, unpopular teens, for the most part, who found themselves and one another while battling monsters and bad guys in their isolated small town. The Burrows plays with that same theme, but on the other end of the age spectrum, its quirky misfits are all elderly living in neighboring homes on a cul de sac in an exclusive retirement community. The newest resident is Sam, a reluctant arrival played with deadpan gruffness by Alfred Molina. He's recently widowed and doesn't want to be there, but there he is. It's a seemingly sparkly and welcoming place, but there may be strange creatures crawling behind the walls. And there definitely are od nosy neighbors living next door, like Art and Judy, a longtime married couple played by Clark Peters from the Wire and the wonderful Alfre Woodard. As Sam is moving in, Judy is on her laptop checking out Sam's past, which Art doesn't like.
- [04:04]
Alfre Woodard
You gotta stop stalking people. Not stalking, investigating. You're not a reporter anymore. Journalist. And that makes it stalking. His wife died of a stroke five months ago. Oh, gosh. She was young, not even 70. He worked for Northrop Grumman 35 years as an aeronautical engineer. So we know he's smart. Education is not the learning of the
- [04:33]
David Biancolli (TV Critic)
facts, but the training of the mind to think.
- [04:36]
Alfre Woodard
Who said that? Einstein?
- [04:39]
David Biancolli (TV Critic)
No, maybe Mr. Peabody. One or the other. I don't know. All the neighbors in this particular hood have their own defiantly individual personalities and are played by veteran actors who fill them with depth and sadness and humor. It's great to see Peters and Woodard strut their stuff here. And that's just for starters. Other talented veteran cast members include Bill Pullman, Ed Begley Jr. Jane Kacmarek and Geena Davis. Playing a spirited woman named Renee, she meets Sam when, unsuccessfully trying to start her loud car engine early in the morning, he comes out with his toolkit, throws open her hood and fixes it. After which he begins to retreat on foot while she pursues him in her car.
- [05:24]
Rose Byrne
I'm Rene.
- [05:25]
Alfre Woodard
Sam. New guy on the block, I guess. Try the engine.
- [05:32]
Tonya Mosley
Just like that.
- [05:32]
Alfre Woodard
Just like that, huh?
- [05:34]
Rose Byrne
All right.
- [05:40]
Alfre Woodard
Whoa. Thank you. Hey. Hey. I'm trying to thank you. I don't want it.
- [05:49]
Host (Anne Marie Baldonado / Terry Gross)
I just want to get some sleep.
- [05:51]
Alfre Woodard
Well, then say you're welcome.
- [05:54]
David Biancolli (TV Critic)
Excuse me.
- [05:56]
Alfre Woodard
Here's a Tip. When somebody says thank you, you just say, you're welcome. The other person will happily go on
- [06:03]
Tonya Mosley
their way, and you can go back
- [06:04]
Alfre Woodard
to doing what all grumpy old men love to do. Be alone. You're welcome.
- [06:14]
David Biancolli (TV Critic)
Atta boy, Sam. And one of my favorite characters and actors here is Dennis o'. Hare. He plays a retired doctor, Wally, who has a brazenly outgoing and unfiltered personality. He demonstrates this when first meeting Sam, who has been invited to a party welcoming him to the neighborhood. Sam is reluctant to enter, so he's just standing outside the door when Wally shows up with a startling opening line. I have stage four prostate cancer.
- [06:43]
Alfre Woodard
Oh.
- [06:46]
David Biancolli (TV Critic)
I probably don't have much time left. It seems a waste to spend it
- [06:49]
Alfre Woodard
standing outside a party.
- [06:50]
David Biancolli (TV Critic)
Not that I'd call six people in a backyard much of a party, but
- [06:54]
Alfre Woodard
sadly, it's as close as I get
- [06:55]
David Biancolli (TV Critic)
since they banned me from the community center.
- [06:58]
Alfre Woodard
Cowards. I'm Sam.
- [07:01]
David Biancolli (TV Critic)
Wally. You gonna stand out here all night, Sam?
- [07:07]
Alfre Woodard
I'm not very good at parties. My wife was the sociable one. People only liked me when I was with her.
- [07:16]
David Biancolli (TV Critic)
Well, I'm beloved,
- [07:21]
Alfre Woodard
so stick close.
- [07:22]
David Biancolli (TV Critic)
I predict you'll warm to all these characters immediately. Sam takes a little longer to warm to them. At first, he's like Bob Newhart, reacting warily to all his therapy patients on the Bob Newhart Show. But eventually, Sam embraces and confides in them all he has to, as it turns out, if they're going to get out of the Burrows alive. The plot thickens in an intriguing but predictable way, especially if you're familiar with Stranger Things and Cocoon and Ghostbusters and even Jaws. But it's all good fun, even when it scores some serious points and has some serious scenes about death and dementia and loneliness. The cast is more than up to it all, and there are younger cast members contributing too, including Jenna Malone and Carlos Miranda. And because it's central to the plot, the Burroughs doesn't skimp on the music soundtrack, especially from the catalog of Bruce Springsteen. The plot of the Burroughs is good, the music is better, and the acting from this team of old pros is the best.
- [08:29]
Tonya Mosley
David Biancooli is fresh Years TV critic. He reviewed the Burroughs
- [08:35]
Alfre Woodard
screened Doors of Lambs. Mary's dress weeds like a vision she dance sails across the porch or just the radio plays Roy over Since singing for the lonely hey, that's me and I want you only don't turn me home again I just can't face myself alone again don't run back inside, darling you know just what I'm here for. So you're scared and you're thinking that maybe we ain't that young anymore.
- [09:17]
Tonya Mosley
Now we're gonna hear from one of the stars of the series, Alfre Woodard. We've been watching her on television, film, and the stage for decades. She's played wives, mothers, nurses, friends, lovers, and prison wardens, women carrying their families through the ordinary and the unimaginable. Her work, in a very real way, has become a record of American life. Woodard earned an Oscar nomination in 1983 for Cross Creek. Over the decades since, she's been nominated for 18 Emmys, winning four, and won a Golden Globe with roles in classics like passionfish, crooklyn, 12 years a slave, and Clemency. Alfred Woodard, welcome to FRESH air. It is such an honor to have you.
- [10:01]
Alfre Woodard
I am happy to be present with you, Tonya.
- [10:04]
Tonya Mosley
Okay, so let's get into it. I have a story that I have to ask you about regarding the set of the Burrows. So the story goes, there was an HR meeting on Zoom,
- [10:17]
Alfre Woodard
and you and
- [10:17]
Tonya Mosley
the other actors were behaving so badly like middle schoolers that's been kicked out of class. And that just made me think, what is this set? What was it like?
- [10:26]
Alfre Woodard
It is, you know, just think about all the people that were in the back of the room. And Constantine told. Pipe down. Pipe. Sit down, sit down. That's not why we're. We're not doing that now. And, you know, maybe there was HR when we were, you know, in our first decade or two in the business, but we didn't know about it or what they did. But now we have learned how to, how to take care of environments, make them safe. Back in the day, you just had to, like, partner up and, you know, clan up and go, like, okay, don't mess with my friend again. Don't tell. You hurt her feelings. Come over here. We need to talk. That kind of stuff. But so we had this HR meeting, and, you know, I think it's more like over 65, all of the cast, and we had about, like, four who had just turned 40. And our showrunners, Jeff Addis and Will Matthews, they're like in their early to mid-40s, but, you know, most of us were people. People were saying things like, can you hear? I can't hear. And then somebody said, hello. None of us can hear you. We can't hear. And just being that, rallying the class back together when we're hearing things like, you know, no, you can't call people, honey. What about baby, no, you can't call people. But what if you really like them? And somebody said, can I say, you know, your butt looks really good in those jeans? No, definitely not. How will I know if my butt looks good if nobody tells me? So it was that kind of very, you know, irreverent kind of stuff going on, but just, you know, giggling and laughing. But that's, you know, that's our generation and that's one of the things that I think we bring to the boroughs and that Will and Jeff wrote in, but we expanded on it because, you know, they still haven't really shaved yet themselves at only mid-40s.
- [12:27]
Tonya Mosley
What were some of the things you had them change for sure that you said, this is not what a 65 plus year old woman or group of friends would be doing living in a retirement community.
- [12:40]
Alfre Woodard
Well, I believe you haven't seen these seniors on camera before. Maybe you saw one, but they were sort of an outlier in a script and used as comic relief or something. But how we live, how we relax together, what we say to each other, and the fact that your chemistry, your, your sexual chemistry only gets more particular and refined as it goes on. So, you know, there'll be some people like, oh, if my mom or my grandmom or granddad was flirting, that would make me go, ew. It's like, no. How do you think you got here? And flirting is love. It's a way of reaching out. It's what humans do. And when you have people that don't have to answer to anybody and they don't have to answer to society saying, what does that lady think she's doing showing her thighs at this age? Well, yeah, there's nobody to tell you. No. And if they do, you can tell them where to go. Because you can't tell somebody it was 60 nothing.
- [13:48]
Tonya Mosley
Well, that's the truth. Your character Judy is also in an open marriage with one rule. Don't fall in love. And of course she does with Jack, who is Bill Pullman, played by Bill Pullman. But when Jack turns up dead, I'm not spoiling it here, but when he turns up dead, Judy is the one asking what really happened. And I want to play a clip where she's in the kitchen table with her neighbor Sam, played by Alfred Molina, telling him about her relationship with Jack for the first time. Let's listen.
- [14:22]
Alfre Woodard
Only rule was don't fall in love. But you fell in love with Jack. I did. I'm not deluded. I see the years etched across my face. I could Feel the weight of my body. But Jack. Jack saw a girl in me. He could see it. And he respected the woman. Jack could. He could. Jack saw us the way we wish we were. He was good. Now he's gone. Everybody loved Jack, and Jack certainly did love everybody. I was just one in the line. That's not the way Jack described you. What did he say?
- [15:44]
Rose Byrne
He was seeing someone special?
- [15:51]
Tonya Mosley
That's Alfre Woodard and Alfred Molina in the new Netflix series the Burroughs. That line, Jack saw the girl in me, but also the woman, too. The way you land that line, it's. It hits it. And days after I watched it, I was kind of thinking about what the significance of that, because I think it's very rare to never. Where women are seen at a certain point in their lives for the totality of who they are.
- [16:22]
Alfre Woodard
That's one of the things that the guys heard me when I talked about it. This affair that she was having and the relationship that Art and Judy have.
- [16:40]
Tonya Mosley
And
- [16:42]
Alfre Woodard
at first it seemed kind of suburban and like early 60s, if not late 50s.
- [16:52]
Tonya Mosley
Why? In what way? What do you mean? Because of that whole idea of an affair within a neighborhood.
- [16:56]
Alfre Woodard
Yeah. Like you. It's judgmental and within the strictures of a very strict, actually paternalistic kind of life that Americans led then. But I said, you know, the thing is, again, we are that generation. We do backstory. Any actor that's really gonna work, that will bring a character to life as a human being, you do your backstory, so you know, where the history. You don't just say your lines, but you have to create a history for yourself from the time you were born all the way up to be able to say even one line if you're going to have people believe it. And so, you know, I decided that we. We went to Berkeley, the two of
- [17:46]
Tonya Mosley
us, you know, you and your husband.
- [17:48]
Alfre Woodard
Yeah. Art, who Clark Peters plays. We are at, you know, we're educated, we're black, we're in California. It's of that age. What would have been happening? All of San Francisco was lit up.
- [18:04]
Tonya Mosley
Free love.
- [18:05]
Rose Byrne
Yeah.
- [18:06]
Alfre Woodard
So. And also the vanguard, the Panthers were in the Bay Area. So just know this is where we're coming from. But the thing is, what is it? And I said, yes, I might be 70, but Judy, the girl is still there. And some people, you're sitting on the train or the bus or just in traffic, L.A. and people look at white hair and all they see is a two dimensional lady stoop there. It's like if you talk to that woman and look at the pictures from her in her 20s or 30s with her heels all the way over her head and her doing, you know, tango bouncing, whatever. But you wouldn't know that if you look at her and just look at her hair. And so that's the thing about accumulating years is people take away your humanity when they look at you, when they just observe you. But whatever you were doing or you are doing at 20 or 30 or 40, you think you discovered it. Oh, darling. And just like anybody playing music, anybody painting, the longer you do it, the more fine tuned you are at it. We're constantly in the process of becoming more of our true selves. So look to your elders.
- [19:38]
Tonya Mosley
Our guest today is award winning actor Alfre Woodard. She's starring in the new Netflix series the Burrows. We'll hear more after a break. I'm Tonya Moseley and this is FRESH AIR Weekend.
- [19:48]
NPR Sponsor Announcer
This message comes from NPR sponsor Harry Potter, the official Film podcast from HBO Max. 25 years after the first Harry Potter movie came out, it's the perfect time to rediscover these beloved films. The Harry Potter Official Film Podcast brings you behind the scenes, starting with the philosopher's stone, uncover hidden details and hear interviews with the people who brought the wizarding world to life. Watch on HBO Max or listen wherever you get your podcasts.
- [20:18]
Rose Byrne
Support for this podcast and the following message come from Strawberry Me. If you could go back and talk to your younger self, would you tell yourself that you have a job that truly makes you happy? Many people are stuck in jobs they've outgrown or never really wanted. A career coach from Strawberry Me can help you move on to something you actually love. Benefit from having a dedicated coach in your Corner, and get 50% off your first coaching session at Strawberry Me.
- [20:46]
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NPR support for NPR and the following message come from Edward Jones. What does it mean to live a rich life? It means brave first leaps, tearful goodbyes and everything in between. With over 100 years of experience navigating the ups and downs of the market and of life, your Edward Jones financial advisor will be there to help you move ahead with confidence. Because with all you've done to find your rich, they'll do all they can to help you keep enjoying it. EDWARD jones, member, SIPC you know, I
- [21:19]
Tonya Mosley
was so excited to talk with you because you're one of those rare actors that span generations. I can talk to my mother about your work. In the 70s and 80s, I sit squarely in the 90s, 2000s. My kids are like, oh, series of unfortunate Events, you know.
- [21:35]
Alfre Woodard
Yes, yes, yes.
- [21:37]
Tonya Mosley
Okay. And we all ask the same question, like, tell me about her life. So let's talk about that for a minute. And I want to go to the moment where you realized you wanted to be an actor. You're 14, Catholic school in Tulsa. Once a month, your film studies teacher, is it Brother Patrick, Brother Patrick o', Brien, Yeah. He would bus the class to art cinema. And you saw this film, this French film about a middle aged man. And you said, what?
- [22:08]
Alfre Woodard
Okay, it was. He didn't teach us film. Brother Pat taught me creative writing. And he, along with Sister Sylvia, taught us marriage.
- [22:17]
Tonya Mosley
Marriage and creative writing. Now, this is funny, but wait.
- [22:20]
Alfre Woodard
With a Christian brother and a nun, daughter's marriage. And of course, we had a field day with that. And they, they were good sports and loved it. But I was at Bishop Kelly High and they would bust the whole school, 750 kids. And it was to watch whatever Brother Pat was on about. So that's where we saw Citizen Kane, Sundays and Sibel, Loneliness of the Long Distance Runner, Incident at Owl Creek Bridge. All of those sorts of films that then you got. When you got to college in film studies, you know, you had already, you'd already spoken about that. And so I remember we were excited, like, oh, we going to the movies. We went to the movies. And you get there and there are subtitles, you're like, this is not a movie. This is a lesson we have to read. And, you know, just sitting there sucking on a Twizzler and before you know it, your heart is gripped. You're identifying with a middle aged French man. He goes to see Sundays and Cybele.
- [23:28]
Tonya Mosley
Ah, Sundays and Sibel.
- [23:29]
Alfre Woodard
Your eyes are filling up with water. And I'm reading the subtitles and I realized then and with the other things we were seeing how emotionally, emotionally they made me. And I immediately saw film, how powerful the moving image was. And I wanted to be involved in it.
- [23:50]
Tonya Mosley
You wanted to be involved in it, but did you see yourself as a showman? How did you, how did you come to that moment to say, I want to be on the screen and I want to be. I want to be these actors I'm watching.
- [24:06]
Alfre Woodard
I didn't think of them as actors until I started watching De Niro, Le Dunaway, Pacino, those actors on screen. That's when I said, okay, that direction. But there's a nun, Sister Rachel Ann Graham, who should have been an actor, but she went into convent. And what she knew because I was in public schools in elementary school, and what she knew and she fought me on all the time, was. I always felt I can remember stuff out of the book. I can remember stuff I read. So you can't mark this wrong. She'd mark my paper up.
- [24:48]
Tonya Mosley
You were good at memorizing.
- [24:50]
Alfre Woodard
And she said, I know what Mr. Hawthorne thought. I read the book. I asked what you thought. And so it was a different way of learning then. So she. Somebody was dropping out, had to drop out, was sick a week to learn the script. She says, you need to. I need you to do this. And I said, oh, no, sister. I couldn't possibly pretend to be. Stand up in front of other people pretending to be somebody else.
- [25:19]
Tonya Mosley
And how old were you?
- [25:19]
Alfre Woodard
About this. 14.
- [25:21]
Tonya Mosley
14? About this?
- [25:21]
Alfre Woodard
Yeah. Maybe 15 at that point. But I was, you know, a student leader. I was loud and bodacious. But there's something about what Pretending to be something else. She says, it's not for you, Alfrey. It's for God.
- [25:39]
Tonya Mosley
And how did you interpret that at the time? When someone tells you you being up on stage is not for you, it's for God.
- [25:45]
Alfre Woodard
Well, it made sense. And I thought, okay, you know, I had a lot of love and support and creature comfort in my life. I had a good life. And I just went, okay. I honestly said to God, we are even after this. And so I got in the play, and so I got on stage.
- [26:10]
Tonya Mosley
So you're on stage at this moment? Yes.
- [26:12]
Alfre Woodard
And it was as if I'd been walking around on dry land my whole life doing the breaststroke. And, yeah, Woodard does that. She weird, but she got some good ideas about stuff. And then just somebody came by me and tipped me in the water. And that same oddity propelled me into just the most open freedom I've ever felt in my life is being in the middle of
- [26:49]
Tonya Mosley
your purpose.
- [26:50]
Alfre Woodard
Between action and cut, it was like, okay, that's it. That's what I want to do. Well, because she calls my parents, said, you have to see Alfred. You know, she. You know Alfred. She's. She's. She's an actor. She's just. She's an artist. And my father, who. I'll tell you about him, they. They both went, oh. Oh. Everybody was so, like, thank God.
- [27:09]
Tonya Mosley
Relieved. Is there a place for her finally?
- [27:12]
Alfre Woodard
We thought the girl had gone crazy. So, yeah.
- [27:17]
Tonya Mosley
And I think that's such a powerful metaphor to say. You felt like you were on land doing the breaststroke. And that feeling of hitting the water, I mean, that's more powerful than anything I've heard. You come from a family of storytellers though, right? Like, you tell this story of your mom making big pots of food and people coming from all over, including your family, you'd sit down and tell stories. But what I love about this story, and I want to know where your place is in it, is you all were really, like, listening and discerning on the story. So if someone's story didn't add up, you'd be like, uh, y' all lying. You lying.
- [27:54]
Alfre Woodard
Yes, yes. And black people love to jump up and holler, oh, that's a lie.
- [27:59]
Host (Anne Marie Baldonado / Terry Gross)
That's a liar.
- [28:00]
Alfre Woodard
Everybody jumps around and goes crazy, and it's a good time. But also a lot of the stories, it's family gathering and chosen family. So you. A lot of the stories are being retold, but you want to hear it again. And you could be four years old and. And somebody would give you the floor. But nobody was saying, come on, baby, tell the story. It's like, okay, all right. Come on. Come on, Abby.
- [28:23]
Tonya Mosley
So you realize acting is your path. You go to Boston University. Boston University in the early 70s was kind of a strange but important place. It sounds like.
- [28:34]
Alfre Woodard
Oh, yes, it was.
- [28:35]
Tonya Mosley
You were there with Paul Reubens and Geena Davis, who is a co star in the Burroughs.
- [28:42]
Alfre Woodard
Yes. And we did a sitcom together years ago called Sarah.
- [28:46]
Host (Anne Marie Baldonado / Terry Gross)
Right.
- [28:47]
Alfre Woodard
Was Bill Maher and Bronson Pinchot?
- [28:50]
Tonya Mosley
And was Bill Pullman also in it?
- [28:52]
Alfre Woodard
No, Bill Maher.
- [28:53]
Tonya Mosley
Oh, Bill Maher. Okay. I'm just curious. Did you and these folks who would go on to be very successful actors, did you ever talk about your dreams with each other or what you wanted to do or anything like that?
- [29:09]
Alfre Woodard
I didn't. Maybe people did, but I. I've never shared my goals aloud with anybody until I got to. I was backstage at the Taper we were doing for colored girls. It was the LA Colored Girls.
- [29:29]
Tonya Mosley
After Boston University. Right, you moved to la, where everybody else went to New York, but you chose la.
- [29:34]
Alfre Woodard
Because my whole orientation and to what would be my purpose was film. So I came to la and I was saying, oh, I'm going to LA to be in films. And people were going, woulda. It sold out already. She's going to Hollywood to be in the movies.
- [29:52]
Tonya Mosley
Because at the time, was theater considered where actors would go? Is that kind of the thought?
- [29:58]
Alfre Woodard
Well, if you're in a conservatory and the work that you're doing is classic plays in theater, you know, but they didn't even give you the reality of it. We all thought we could go off to the Open Gate theater and do Brecht for the rest of our lives. But again, I'm sitting there going in la. And so I did tell a couple of friends, I said, I'm going to la. And then a guy, Gary Bass, who was from Tulsa as well, he said, I'm going with you. And then Brenda, who was from Lakeland,
- [30:33]
Tonya Mosley
Florida, and Noreen, did they continue on being actors?
- [30:37]
Alfre Woodard
No. Gary had more skills. I had no marketable skills. I still don't. I can cook, but don't tell me what to cook.
- [30:46]
Tonya Mosley
I know the number of actresses like you, black actresses your age working at your level has never been large. I'm thinking about Cece H. Pounder, Phylicia Rashad, Cicely Tyson, Angela Bassett. You all know each other. I can imagine you at one point or another have gone for the same roles. And how do you work through that? How do you all continue to stay and keep each other grounded knowing that there are just a few of you? And just by virtue of the way the industry is, you're kind of gonna have to be pit against each other.
- [31:23]
Alfre Woodard
Well, we don't pit ourselves against each other. I don't. I started a thing called Sistas.
- [31:29]
Host (Anne Marie Baldonado / Terry Gross)
Yes.
- [31:29]
Alfre Woodard
And the reason I did.
- [31:31]
Tonya Mosley
And let's talk about what the sister soiree is. It's a pre Oscar party.
- [31:35]
Alfre Woodard
Yes.
- [31:36]
Tonya Mosley
Right. With black and Latina actresses.
- [31:38]
Alfre Woodard
Yes.
- [31:38]
Tonya Mosley
Okay.
- [31:39]
Alfre Woodard
And the reason I started it was, you know, people would say things like, oh, you're so great. It's too bad there's not any roles for black women. It was like, no. I have to answer you. If it's the Queen of England, yeah, let all the Kate's be Queen Elizabeth. But if there's 99 other roles, then shame on you for not seeing all these women who are not only prolific but profound. They have a track record and they have made bank for people. And so I said, okay, this is what we're going to do. And I got tired of hearing. And we love our fans going like they want to pit you against each other. You know, who would have been better than this? You know what? You don't do that to the Kates. Don't do that to us. And the thing is, we have more in common with each other than we do with anybody else. The sisters. And so I said, we have to get together. I started having the soiree. The first people I honored was Taraji and Viola were nominated in the first year.
- [32:47]
Tonya Mosley
Taraji P. Henson and Viola Davis.
- [32:50]
Alfre Woodard
And I said, we're going to lift y' all up before y' all go on that red carpet, because we don't care what happens there. We celebrate people. We don't put prizes on them.
- [33:01]
Tonya Mosley
Alfre Woodard, this has been an honor and a pleasure. Thank you so much.
- [33:05]
Alfre Woodard
You are so welcome.
- [33:07]
Tonya Mosley
Alfre Woodard stars in the new Netflix series the Burroughs. Coming up, actor Rose Byrne. She'll talk about her return to theater in the revival of the Noel Coward play Fallen Angels and her role in the Oscar nominated film if I had Legs, I'd kick you. This is FRESH AIR weekend.
- [33:25]
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Host (Anne Marie Baldonado / Terry Gross)
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- [34:14]
Rose Byrne
your podcasts and and start seeing how
- [34:16]
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the economy really works.
- [34:18]
Tonya Mosley
Our guest today is actor Rose Byrne. Known for both drama and comedy, she is now one of the few actresses to receive both an Oscar and a Tony nomination in the same year. She's currently on Broadway and the revival of the play Fallen Angels. She spoke with Fresh Air's Anne Marie Baldonado.
- [34:38]
Host (Anne Marie Baldonado / Terry Gross)
When Rose Byrne appeared on American TV in 2007 in the show Damages, it was clear she was a dramatic force. Playing opposite Glenn Close. She was nominated for two Emmys and two Golden Globe Awards. Then she starred in a series of comedies, Get Em to the Greek, Bridesmaids and Neighbors, and it became apparent that she's also one of our most gifted comedic actors. Her work in the last year alone shows that she's so good at playing complex characters in any genre. She stars opposite Seth Rogen in the Apple TV comedy Platonic, and she received an Oscar nomination for her raw performance in the film if I Had Legs at Kick You. Now, Rose Byrne is on Broadway in the play Fallen Angels. It's a revival of the 1925 Noel Coward play, a farce about two wealthy women married English, who go a bit crazy when they hear that the man they had both been involved with before they were married is coming to town. Both Byrne and her co star Kelly o' Hara have been nominated for Tonys for best actress in a play. Rose Byrne, welcome to Fresh Air.
- [35:51]
Rose Byrne
Hi. Thanks so much.
- [35:52]
Host (Anne Marie Baldonado / Terry Gross)
Now, this play is from the 1920s. It was scandalous back then because it was about two women talking about having affairs with the same man before they were married. Had you known this play or had you performed Noel Coward before? And I'll say that Coward is a British playwright known for writing sophisticated, witty comedies about the upper class. You know, funny, with a lot going on underneath.
- [36:18]
Rose Byrne
I wasn't familiar with the play. Scott Ellis, who's the artistic director of the Roundabout Theatre, brought it to me and Kelly o' Hara for a benefit reading for the Roundabout. So that's how I discovered the play, obviously. But I was familiar with Noel Coward. I'd seen productions of his more popular plays, I guess, that are done sort of very frequently. Like I'd seen Private Lives, I'd seen Hay Fever. Like I've seen productions of his other plays. But Fallen Angels was. No, I didn't know it. It was a lesser done play. So it was a really interesting discovery.
- [36:50]
Host (Anne Marie Baldonado / Terry Gross)
I want to play a scene from the play. Here you and your co star, Kelly o' Hara are discussing your ex lover Maurice, who's French, who you haven't seen in years. You're both excited about the possibility of him visiting. Kelly o' Hara speaks first.
- [37:08]
Alfre Woodard
I say, wouldn't it be too wonderful
- [37:11]
Rose Byrne
if he arrived suddenly now? Oh, I should choke.
- [37:15]
Tonya Mosley
You're sure you left a thoroughly clear
- [37:17]
Rose Byrne
message at your flat in case he went there first? Of course. We're bound to get a frightful shock
- [37:22]
Alfre Woodard
when we do see him. Oh, I don't see why. He's bound to have gotten bald or gone fat or something.
- [37:27]
Rose Byrne
No, no, he won't have changed at all. He wouldn't come if he had because he's far too conceited. No, not conceited. A little vain, perhaps.
- [37:36]
Alfre Woodard
Naturally.
- [37:37]
Rose Byrne
With those eyes, who can blame him? There's head and there's teeth, there's legs.
- [37:48]
Host (Anne Marie Baldonado / Terry Gross)
That's a scene from the play Fallen Angels. Rose Byrne, you're Australian. You live in the US now. Can you talk about your accent in this play? I would think it's some. That some of this dialogue is fun to say and some of the words, the syllables get drawn out, like the way you say eyes, blame even teeth in this clip.
- [38:07]
Rose Byrne
I mean. Yeah, it is the language he uses sort of linguistic gymnastics. And the extraordinary vocabulary of Noel Coward is a delight. Yeah. We work with Kate Wilson, who's the head of voice at Juilliard, and I've been working with her now for nearly 10 years. And she's extraordinary because she's just like, consonants, consonants, consonants. You gotta hit the consonants, stick the landing. Like it's the language that sort of is everything in a way. It is this brilliant sort of use of language that he had at the age of 25, I believe, when he wrote this play. It's all in the delivery and the kind of the pacing of it and just staying very lightly on all of the language. It's a real tightrope. Yeah. I never tire of sitting backstage and constantly rediscovering the words. And he peppers throughout. Like the word callous is throughout, which I just, Just love. It's so delicious and just brilliant. And bitterly is used a lot. It was a bitter time. Bitterly. And it's just these brilliant words that he uses that I've started to use in my day to day as I walk around in my life now.
- [39:24]
Host (Anne Marie Baldonado / Terry Gross)
You're doing everything bitterly now.
- [39:26]
Alfre Woodard
Exactly.
- [39:26]
Rose Byrne
It was a bitter time. I say in the morning to my children and they're like, what?
- [39:32]
Host (Anne Marie Baldonado / Terry Gross)
For a lot of the show, you and your co star, Kelli o' Hara are playing drunk.
- [39:37]
Rose Byrne
Both of your kids, like an hour.
- [39:38]
Host (Anne Marie Baldonado / Terry Gross)
Yeah.
- [39:39]
Rose Byrne
Just getting drunk.
- [39:40]
Host (Anne Marie Baldonado / Terry Gross)
Yes. Slowly but surely, you're getting drunk over the course of the evening. And so much of the comedy comes from that. How do you prepare to act drunk and how do you actually do it?
- [39:51]
Rose Byrne
It's interesting. Well, his writing is so brilliant with the drunkenness. Like he's, you know, the switching of words and the slow decline and the volume. It's very specific in the stage directions. My character gets louder continually throughout this sequence of them drinking, which is very funny and. And very true about drunk people. They often get louder and louder and louder. And that's what happens to Jane. And then it's referred to in the third act that she was much worse than. Than Julia. And she really is. She sort of unravels. And then there's a violence that comes out in the character too, that is very dark and can also happen. I've seen with people when they get too inebriated sometimes. It can really, you know, it can be. Not. Not reveal the best part of them.
- [40:40]
Host (Anne Marie Baldonado / Terry Gross)
Yeah, there's a lot of physical comedy in this play. It reminded me actually of kind of Lucy and Ethel. And I love Lucy as far as the physicality of it. Or maybe you're both Lucy as far
- [40:51]
Rose Byrne
as how over the top. I think it's such an honor. You know, we stand on the shoulders of those women, you know, of those extra. And like Carol Burnett, like, they're just on a pedestal. Kristen Wiig, you know, the ph. Comedy of those performances. Julia Louis Dreyfus, I mean, John Cleese. These are the people I put on pedestals. Maya Rudolph, you know, just brilliant physical comedians. So we've definitely pushed that side of things which. Which has been very fun.
- [41:17]
Host (Anne Marie Baldonado / Terry Gross)
How does performing in a Broadway show, eight shows a week, how does it compare to shooting a movie? You know, even like something so kind of adrenaline pumped as your last film. If I had legs, I'd kick you. I was just wondering how it feels differently, those different kinds of.
- [41:35]
Rose Byrne
No, it's a great question. Something I'm sort of wrestling with. Cause it's kind of a little bit hard to describe in any erudite fashion, but it feels we are trying to reach the back row, you know, so it's a. Physically. It's just bigger. It is a bigger experience than. So to perform in a bigger arena like that and to still remain truthful in that sense of like, I felt like I was screaming when I first got up. Cause we're not wearing mics either. There's mics on the stage. But we get up there and I'm like, what? You know, hello, Jane. You know, to yell. Like, how do I translate that? In a way that still feels authentic, but the theatricality of that leaning into that too. So it's been a learning curve again to do that. But I had long wanted to do a true comedic piece on stage. Like, it's been one of my dreams. So this has been extraordinary to have this experience.
- [42:27]
Host (Anne Marie Baldonado / Terry Gross)
Now I want to ask about the film. If I had legs, I'd kick you. How would you describe the film and your character? Linda?
- [42:36]
Rose Byrne
I've loved speaking to other people about the film because it really is. It sort of defies generalization or description because it's. It's sort of like a fever dream in a way. It has Gallo's humor in there. It's also horror kind of tropes in the film too. I think Mary Bronstein really kind of broke the mold with the tone of the film in many ways. And she really sort of plays with the edge of consciousness, I think, in many ways. And tapped into sort of like the monster within and the fear of being a parent and the horror of being a parent and some of the joy, too. But obviously she's in a really difficult situation, this woman. But I still can't believe the film kind of got as far as it did just because it was, you know, it's a small, independent film. So it was just extraordinary.
- [43:27]
Host (Anne Marie Baldonado / Terry Gross)
Yes. The film is written and directed by Mary Bronstein, and it's based on some of her own experiences. Her daughter had become ill when she was younger, and she had that similar experience about trying to get her well and feeling trapped or the weight while doing it. And I read that you both did a lot to prepare for the role, that the two of you would meet after dropping off your kids at school and just talk about the script, about motherhood. Did any of the stories that you shared make it into the movie?
- [43:57]
Rose Byrne
Yeah, we were really lucky. We had a period of really, like, five or six weeks where I'd go to her apartment, and we just started from page one and just went through every single, you know, comma and syllable and dialogue and everything. Just carving through and sharing stories. And as to your point, yeah, Mary Bronstein has shared that, too. It was based on a, you know, something she went through with her own child. And obviously, she didn't behave like my character does in the film, but the fears behind that and what went into it. And she shared her journals from that time and. Yeah, and I shared my own personal experience of being a parent and how that feels and struggles. And it was really incredible period we had there. So then when we got to set, obviously it was a short shoot. It was only 25 or six days or something. We sort of had every conversation so we could really leap off and play the scene and discover stuff. And as an actress, I can't make any sort of decision until the other actor's in front of me and I'm, you know, responding to what's happening. So I'm so grateful we had that period.
- [45:02]
Host (Anne Marie Baldonado / Terry Gross)
Mary Bronstein has said that, you know, she wanted to capture that visceral feeling of, you know, desperation, that mental state when you feel everything is falling apart. Because all these things. She has a child who's ill, and then there are all these other things that are happening, too. And as these things feel like they're falling apart, you feel like it's your fault. Like it's this state of where you're so stressed that all these problems become equal. And that felt real to me. And I was wondering how you and Mary Bronstein wanted to convey that. And if you've ever had that kind
- [45:38]
Rose Byrne
of feeling before yourself, what Linda's going through of having a seriously critically ill child, you know, you know, knock on wood. Most parents won't have to go through that. You know, 99% of. Isn't it so very extraordinarily specific illness that she has too. But I was sort of obsessed with, like, how do. What happened before this, like, what led to this moment of who was she before, like, what. You know, because very little information is given. And I was like. I wanted to, like, discover this sort of. Cause she's got such a sort of streak of distrust of authority. You know, she's very defiant and, like, prickly. And why, like, where did that come. So that was sort of our boring, like, actor homework that, you know, I was really interested in as a point of entry for the story. And Mary was. She's come from an acting background. She loves character and the details of that. So that was something we discussed a lot of. And just also tracking the downfall, because the trap would be, she's hysterical from the start, you know, and how do we, you know, and sort of detract that sort of slow decline? And also the isolation the character has put upon herself because she does not want anyone reflecting back her choices, which are becoming increasingly unhinged and irresponsible. She just has her therapist, really, and he is telling her, you need to get a good night's sleep. Don't smoke pot. You know, these basic things. And she's ignoring that. She just completely goes off the rails. She has no guardrails anymore. So that sort of sense of isolation that I've seen with people in my life, if they're in a situation they don't want commented on or they don't want to acknowledge, they slowly remove from your life because they can't have that reflected back.
- [47:21]
Host (Anne Marie Baldonado / Terry Gross)
I want to play a scene from the film, and Mary Bronstein, the writer director, is actually in it. She plays the daughter's doctor who's really hard on your character, Linda. In this scene here, the doctor is trying to talk to Linda about how treatment isn't working, and she doesn't think Linda is doing enough to help.
- [47:40]
Tonya Mosley
You've missed the last few weeks of family sessions.
- [47:45]
Alfre Woodard
Yeah,
- [47:47]
Rose Byrne
I told you what happened. Our entire ceiling fell down. And with all that chaos, and we're living out of the hotel, so we
- [47:54]
Tonya Mosley
need to schedule something as soon as possible to talk about her goals and the treatment process.
- [47:59]
Rose Byrne
Yeah, okay. Yeah, duh.
- [48:03]
Alfre Woodard
Yeah.
- [48:08]
Rose Byrne
Oh, you meant now. Okay. All right, well, let me look at my schedule. I. I should probably do that.
- [48:17]
Tonya Mosley
I know that you already know this, but you can't start letting feelings of guilt and control about this illness and treatment affect you. It's no one's fault.
- [48:29]
Rose Byrne
That's right. That's what I keep hearing.
- [48:31]
Tonya Mosley
Also, I really need you to Start taking care of yourself. You can.
- [48:35]
Rose Byrne
Yes. No, put my oxygen mask on first.
- [48:39]
Tonya Mosley
I'm just gonna have to get blunt here. So she needs to reach her weight goal in the next week. If she does that, then we can put tube removal and discharge dates on the books. But if she doesn't do that, I'm gonna have to reassess the level of care because obviously something is not working here. And this is what I need to talk to you about. When can we sit down properly?
- [49:02]
Rose Byrne
Yeah, fine. September 7th.
- [49:04]
Tonya Mosley
It's September 15th.
- [49:08]
Rose Byrne
September 20th. I mean, September. September 20th.
- [49:16]
Host (Anne Marie Baldonado / Terry Gross)
That's a scene from the film. If I had legs, I'd kick you.
- [49:22]
Rose Byrne
I think it's hilarious. I'm like, that's funny.
- [49:26]
Host (Anne Marie Baldonado / Terry Gross)
Well, you know, it's funny because, yes, there's a lot in the movie that's funny. But, you know, when you are nominated for the Golden Globe for Best Actress in a musical or comedy, people are like, that was supposed to be a comedy. It feels like horror to me.
- [49:42]
Rose Byrne
Yeah, totally. It's not Bridesmaids. No, it's a different sort of comedy. Totally. But that scene's so funny, hearing it, especially because Mary's so serious and she's my friend, and I'm, like, just dying because she's. She also looks like she's 12 years old, Mary, and she's playing the doctor. But that's what happens. All of a sudden, you get to a certain age and there's all these younger people telling you what to do, and you're like, oh, my God.
- [50:03]
Host (Anne Marie Baldonado / Terry Gross)
I think something that the film does so well is convey that pressure of what it's like to be a caretaker. Like, the darkness of it, because it feels relentless. Like you never stop worrying. And, you know, there are these decisions that the director makes. For example, there's this constant beeping of the machine that happens through the film. And, you know, it's the machine that feeds the daughter through the feeding tube. And you can hear that throughout the movie. And that adds to the anxiety. And I think that's also what happens when you're a caregiver. Like, there's that constant beeping in the background.
- [50:38]
Rose Byrne
Yeah. These noises get magnified and actually Mary Bronstein made those louder just a bit like the clock on the wall, the beeping of the machine. All those things were louder because they are, in her point of view, and it is as a parent, those things become overstimulating. It's relentless. And she wanted to capture that claustrophobia. And the sound design was really extraordinary in that sense, too. Really captured that.
- [51:04]
Host (Anne Marie Baldonado / Terry Gross)
One thing I should add is that we never fully know as viewers what kind of illness the daughter has, nor do we see the daughter's face through most of the movie.
- [51:16]
Rose Byrne
Yes, again, she sort of provides more questions than answers and the conceit of not seeing the daughter and Mary's spoken to this many times, but sort of a two pronged thing in that, you know, I don't think Linda, my character can see her daughter at this point. She's so drowning and beginning this sort of real descent into her crisis, her mental health crisis, that she can't even see this little she sort of lost her shape, which can happen with your family or when you're in a day in and day out and you just lose they lose their physical shape in front of you, your kids or your husband or wife or whomever. And I feel like that's Linda's perspective. And also for the audience to have that choice taken away, to not see the daughter, you're forced to reckon with the mother because as soon as you put a child on screen, your empathy, as it should, goes to the child. They're so vulnerable and it's, you know, if immediately your concern will go to them. And so she takes that choice away from the viewer. So you're, you know, you're forced to be in the perspective of the mother.
- [52:23]
Host (Anne Marie Baldonado / Terry Gross)
Rose Byrne, congrats on the Tony nomination and thank you so much for joining us.
- [52:29]
Rose Byrne
Thank you, Anne Marie, thank you so much.
- [52:31]
Tonya Mosley
Rose Byrne spoke with FRESH AIR producer Anne Marie Baldonado. FRESH AIR Weekend is produced by Teresa Madden. FRESH air's executive producer is Sam Brigger with Terry Gross. I'm Tonya Mosley.
- [52:46]
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