Fresh Air Weekend: Best Of – "Making 'Born To Run' / Why We Can't Sleep"
Hosted by Terry Gross | Released August 9, 2025

Introduction

In this special edition of Fresh Air Weekend, host Terry Gross delves into two captivating topics: the monumental creation of Bruce Springsteen's classic album Born to Run and the pervasive issue of insomnia in modern America. The episode features insightful conversations with Peter Ames Carlin, author of a new book on Springsteen’s iconic album, TV critic David Biancooli reviewing the latest season of Wednesday on Netflix, and journalist Jennifer Sr. discussing her Pulitzer Prize-winning Atlantic article, "Why Can't Americans Sleep?"

Segment 1: The Making of Bruce Springsteen's Born to Run

Guest: Peter Ames Carlin, Author of "Tonight in the Making of 'Born to Run'"

Significance of the Album
Peter Ames Carlin opens the discussion by emphasizing the transformative impact of Born to Run on Bruce Springsteen’s career. "It's a hugely transformative album for Bruce in terms of his career, his record sales, but also...his understanding of his own identity and the voice he would carry forward in his music" (05:08).

Record Label Tensions
Carlin recounts the precarious position Springsteen was in before recording Born to Run. After his first two critically acclaimed albums failed commercially, Columbia Records was on the verge of dropping him. "Clive Davis...was pushed out...and the new administration...were not connected at all to Bruce Springsteen...they were going to cut bait on this Bruce Springsteen guy" (07:26).

Evolution of "Born to Run" Lyrics
Initially titled "Wild Angels," the early drafts of "Born to Run" featured darker, symbolic language. "At first, he was working on a kind of this sort of gothic, almost horror story...his words were in heavily symbolic language" (07:55). Over time, the lyrics evolved to better capture the essence of modern America and Springsteen’s desire to escape.

Musical Experimentation and Production
The album is noted for its highly produced sound, a departure from Springsteen’s preference for spontaneity. Carlin explains, "They decided to start working in a more traditional studio fashion...layer everything else instrument by instrument" (12:50). This meticulous production process was pivotal in achieving the album’s powerful and rich sound.

Incorporation of Jazz Elements
One of the standout tracks, "Meeting Across the River," showcases a film noir vibe enhanced by trumpet arrangements. Springsteen initially doubted the inclusion of brass but ultimately embraced it. "When they finally heard all the pieces come together, Bruce was like, 'That's it. That's absolutely on the album.'" (25:09).

Cultural and Personal Reflections
Springsteen’s work captures the desperation and hopes of individuals striving to escape their circumstances. "It's not getting somewhere that matters as much as having the courage to go and start that process of recreation and discovery" (20:25).

Notable Quotes:

• Bruce Springsteen (archive audio): "The Highways down with Broken Heroes on a last chance power drive." (11:18)
• Peter Ames Carlin: "We gotta get out while we're young Cause Dr. Like us, baby, we were forced to run." (04:56)

Segment 2: Review of Wednesday Season Two

Guest: David Biancooli, TV Critic

Overview of the Series
David Biancooli provides a comprehensive review of the second season of Netflix’s Wednesday, highlighting the show's evolution and the return of key creative forces. "Series creators Alfred Gough and Miles Miller are back as showrunners, and Tim Burton is directing another four episodes this season" (25:33).

Character Development and New Additions
The season introduces new characters and guest stars, enriching the narrative. Notable additions include Steve Buscemi as the enthusiastic new principal and Joanna Lumley as Morticia’s grandmother. Biancooli praises the expanded screen time for Catherine Zeta-Jones as Morticia, enhancing the mother-daughter dynamic. "The mother-daughter dynamic now is central to the story" (32:16).

Performance Highlights
Jenna Ortega continues to deliver a standout performance, embodying Wednesday with a mix of rebellion and depth. "Jenna Ortega is now the best Wednesday" (32:46). The inclusion of Tim Burton’s unique directional style adds a gothic and whimsical layer to the series, reminiscent of his work on Beetlejuice.

Plot and Themes
The season delves deeper into Wednesday’s personal struggles and family relationships, particularly her psychic visions and her relationship with her mother, Morticia. The tension between embracing one’s heritage and forging an individual path is a recurrent theme.

Notable Quotes:

• Jenna Ortega: "Only if you have one that says do not resuscitate." (29:40)
• Jenna Ortega: "You don't need to worry about me, Mother. You should be focused on Pugsley." (31:46)

Segment 3: Jennifer Sr. on Insomnia and American Sleep Patterns

Guest: Jennifer Sr., Pulitzer Prize-Winning Journalist

Personal Struggles with Sleep
Jennifer Sr. shares her personal battle with insomnia, which began 25 years ago at the age of 29. She describes the initial bewilderment and escalating panic caused by her inability to sleep. "Now I only HAVE one. Now I HAVE 20 minutes." (39:05).

Exploration of Sleep Solutions
Sr. discusses various methods she tried to combat insomnia, including acupuncture, melatonin, running, and meditation. While some provided temporary relief, many were ineffective or counterproductive. "I learned that once you're in a certain state of panic, trying to meditate is very hard" (40:53).

Insights from Sleep Researchers
Through her Atlantic article, Sr. interviewed top sleep researchers who debunked common myths about sleep. A prevalent misconception addressed is the necessity of eight hours of sleep for everyone. "They said that this was this myth out there that was just a kind of tyranny" (43:37).

Biological and Psychological Aspects
Sr. explains the intricate relationship between sleep and brain function. She highlights the importance of the glymphatic system in cleansing the brain of toxins during sleep and discusses how insomnia affects emotional regulation and cognitive performance. "Insomnia is a really good recipe for depression" (47:17).

Challenges with Treatment
The discussion touches on the complexities of treating insomnia, particularly when intertwined with depression. Sr. shares her experience with antidepressants, noting both their benefits and drawbacks. "Some antidepressants can have a paradoxical effect and make you extremely wakeful" (49:51).

Public Health Implications
Sr. emphasizes that insomnia has escalated into a public health emergency in America, affecting millions and contributing to broader societal issues such as decreased productivity and increased mental health struggles.

Notable Quotes:

• Jennifer Sr.: "What occurs to us as you listen is that it's not getting somewhere that matters as much as having the courage to go and start that process of recreation and discovery." (19:37)
• Jennifer Sr.: "There's no such thing as failing. When you meditate, you always have to bring yourself back to paying attention" (40:53)

Conclusion

This episode of Fresh Air Weekend offers a rich exploration of both cultural and personal challenges. From the creation of a legendary rock album to the nuanced portrayal of a beloved TV character, and the deep dive into the widespread issue of insomnia, Terry Gross facilitates conversations that are both enlightening and deeply engaging. Whether you're a Springsteen aficionado, a fan of Wednesday, or someone grappling with sleep issues, this episode provides valuable insights and thoughtful reflections.

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Note: Timestamps correspond to the sections within the provided transcript for reference.