Best Of: Richard Kind / Melinda French Gates

Summary

Fresh Air: Best Of – Richard Kind & Melinda French Gates (April 19, 2025)

Hosts: Terry Gross and Tonya Moseley
Guests: Richard Kind and Melinda French Gates
Release Date: April 19, 2025

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Interview with Richard Kind

Richard Kind, a seasoned actor with a career spanning over four decades, joins Fresh Air to discuss his extensive work in television and film, his role in the new Netflix series "Everybody's Live with John Mulaney", and his personal reflections on fame and self-perception.

"Everybody's Live with John Mulaney"

Richard Kind delves into his experience as the sidekick and announcer for John Mulaney in the Netflix series "Everybody's Live". The show, which adapts from the previous year's "Everybody's in LA", features intimate panel discussions on various societal topics, supported by celebrity guests such as Pete Davidson, Michael Keaton, and Wanda Sykes.

Key Highlights:

• Surprise Extension: Kind expresses his surprise and anxiety over the show's extension from an initial six episodes to an additional twelve. He remarks, "This is not what I was born to do. It was a lark when I did the first six, it was fun. Oh, my gosh, now it's a job." (07:14)

• Global Audience Pressure: Discussing the show's worldwide reach, Kind shares his apprehensions: "We're on live all over the world on Netflix. What if I say something that's so unfunny or God forbid, something I would regret saying, I can't take it back." (07:14)

Career Reflections and Personal Insights

Kind offers a candid look into his career trajectory, highlighting his roles in "Only Murders in the Building", "Inside Out", and the Coen Brothers' "A Serious Man". He reflects on his journey from aspiring musical theater performer to a versatile character actor.

Notable Quotes:

• On feeling like a fraud: "Every day I feel like a fraud. Every single day. I'm waiting for the world to say, I'm not that talented. I don't have that. I'm not that good." (14:18)

• On balancing ego and confidence: "My ego says, go out and do it and do it and do it louder than everybody else. It's who I am." (23:03)

On Acting and Humor

Kind emphasizes the delicate balance between self-doubt and the need for affirmation in acting. He also showcases his comedic talent by sharing one of his favorite jokes:

Favorite Joke:

A mother is making her teenage son's bed and pulls out a magazine filled with bondage gear. "Oh my God," she exclaims. The husband responds, "Well, we're certainly not gonna spank him." (25:20)

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Review: "you, Friends and Neighbors" by John Powers

John Powers, Fresh Air critic, reviews the new Apple TV series "you, Friends and Neighbors", starring Jon Hamm. The show is lauded for its sharp portrayal of suburban life, blending humor with poignant social commentary.

Review Highlights:

• Suburban Dichotomy: Powers compares the series to John Cheever's literary explorations, noting its "exact blend of humor and pathos" that captures the "sunlit splendor and shadowy desolation" of suburban existence.

• Character Depth: Jon Hamm's portrayal of Andrew Cooper (Coop) is praised for its complexity, showcasing a man grappling with personal and financial turmoil after losing his hedge fund job.

• Modern Themes: The show delves into themes of materialism, entitlement, and the erosion of community values, presenting a contemporary twist on classic suburban narratives.

Notable Commentary:

"It's a perfect role for Hamm, who carries with him our memories of Don Draper's dark souled charisma, then takes this sort of character in a new direction. Funnier, sadder, and more sympathetic." (26:16)

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Interview with Melinda French Gates

Melinda French Gates, co-founder of the Gates Foundation and founder of Pivotal Ventures, discusses her new book "The Next Day: Transitions, Change, and Moving Forward". The conversation spans her philanthropic efforts, personal transformations, and insights into motherhood and grief.

Philanthropy and Government Funding Cuts

Gates addresses the impact of the Trump administration's funding cuts on organizations like USAID, emphasizing the critical role philanthropy plays in filling these gaps.

Key Points:

• Catalytic Role of Philanthropy: "We take risks where a government can't with taxpayer money and shouldn't. But once we know something works, it's up to government to scale it up." (35:50)

• Women's Health Focus: With recent challenges, Gates has increased her focus on women's health through Pivotal Ventures, committing $250 million to advance global women's health initiatives. (37:12)

Notable Quotes:

"What is it that we value as society? Don't we value our children and our babies? If you value our children and our babies, don't their mothers need to be healthy?" (47:34)

Personal Reflections and Family Influence

Gates reflects on her upbringing in a supportive middle-class family, highlighting her father's role in fostering her and her sisters' ambitions.

Key Highlights:

• Father's Influence: Gates fondly recalls her father's efforts to integrate women into his engineering teams, providing early role models that shaped her views on gender equality. "He encouraged us to speak up even when he didn't necessarily agree with him. But he also believed in us." (41:38)

• Mother's Legacy: Despite her mother's unrealized college aspirations, Gates acknowledges the vital role her mother played in managing the family real estate business, instilling strong work ethics and resilience. (44:37)

The Giving Pledge and Wealth Redistribution

Gates discusses the inception and growth of the Giving Pledge, aiming to inspire billionaires to donate a significant portion of their wealth for societal benefit.

Key Points:

• Growth of the Pledge: "We have over 240 families now that are part of the Giving Pledge, spanning over 30 countries." (49:22)

• Ripple Effects: Beyond billionaires, the initiative encourages individuals of all financial standings to contribute time, energy, and resources to societal good. (49:22)

Notable Quotes:

"No matter who you are, we all have things to give back—our time, our energy, our intellect, and our money." (49:22)

Navigating Personal Hardships

In her book, Gates candidly shares her experiences with grief and divorce, emphasizing that wealth does not insulate one from life's emotional challenges.

Notable Quote:

"I want audiences to see that I'm a human being. I know who I am. And by being my authentic self, I hope they can see, okay, she's gone through struggles and hardship too, but come out the other side." (40:04)

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Conclusion

This episode of Fresh Air presents two compelling narratives: Richard Kind's introspective journey through acting and personal insecurities, and Melinda French Gates' profound insights into philanthropy, personal growth, and societal values. Both guests illuminate the complexities of their respective fields, offering listeners a blend of humor, vulnerability, and inspiration.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Richard Kind: "Every day I feel like a fraud. Every single day." (14:18)

• Richard Kind: "Nobody tells a joke better than I do." (25:20)

• Melinda French Gates: "What is it that we value as society? Don't we value our children and our babies?" (47:34)

• Melinda French Gates: "No matter who you are, we all have things to give back." (49:22)

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Fresh Air continues to offer in-depth conversations with influential figures, providing listeners with thoughtful perspectives on art, culture, and the human experience.

Transcript

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[Tonya Moseley]

WHYY in Philadelphia, this is FRESH AIR Weekend. I'm Tonya Moseley. Today, actor Richard Kind. You've seen him on countless TV shows and films during his 40 year career. Only Murders in the Building, Curb youb Enthusiasm, Spin City, Mad about yout, and A Serious man, just to name a few. He's now the announcer and sidekick on Everybody's Live with John Mulaney. Plus, he knows how to tell a joke.

[Richard Kind]

Oh, I got lots of them. Nobody tells a joke better than I do.

[Tonya Moseley]

He'll share one of his favorites. Melinda French Gates also joins us to talk about her new book, the Next Day, which reflects on motherhood, grief, philanthropy and life after divorce. Gates is the former co chair of the Gates foundation and founder of Pivotal Ventures, which focuses on advancing women and families. And John Powers reviews the new TV series you, Friends and Neighbors starring Jon Hamm, that's coming up on Fresh AIR Weekend.

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[Tonya Moseley]

[e-mail] Terry Gross has our first interview, and she started it like this.

[Richard Kind]

Live around the world from the corner of Sunset and Gower in Los Angeles, it's Everybody's Live with John Mulaney. And now, here's your host, John Mulaney.

[Terry Gross]

That's my guest actor Richard Kind, in his current role on the Netflix show Everybody's Live, with John Mulaney as the announcer and Mulaney's sidekick. He does sketches, too. The show conforms to the late night format in the sense that there's an opening monologue, but then it becomes a panel discussion on a specific subject, like funerals, loaning people money and getting fired. With guests like Pete Davidson, Michael Keaton, Fred Armisen, Bill Hader, Henry Winkler, John Waters, and Wanda Sykes, Everybody's Live is live on Netflix Wednesday nights and streams after that. Richard Kind has been in hundreds of movies and TV shows. In the series Only Murders in the Building, he was the neighbor Vince Fish, AKA Stink Eye Joe with a highly contagious case of pink eye. In the animated film Inside out, he was the voice of the imaginary friend Bing Bong. In the Coen Brothers film A Serious man, he was the deeply troubled brother. Earlier in his career, he co starred in the series mad about YouTube and was a cast member of the Carol Burnett Show, Carol and Company. His youthful ambition was to be in a Stephen Sondheim musical. He's been in two. He starred in a production of A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum at the Stephen Sondheim center for the Performing Arts and in the musical Bounce. He originated the role of Addison Meisner and got to work with Sondheim. Kind was in the Michael J. Fox series Spin City. In Curb youb Enthusiasm, he was Larry David's cousin Andy. And I think he's still angry that a recent series he co starred in, East New York, was canceled after one season. Angry because he thought it was really good. Let's start with a clip from the latest episode of Everybody's Live with John Mulaney. Mulaney explains that Kind got hit on the head with a Kiss album, which left him with a traumatic brain injury. And now he thinks he's Gene Simmons. He's dressed like Simmons, his hair is like Simmons, and he talks like Simmons too. After he says something vulgar to Mulaney, Mulaney starts to apologize to the audience.

[Tonya Moseley]

Okay, so normally I'd apologize for such a cracked comment.

[Richard Kind]

Gentlemen, I crave ideas, and when an idea hits me, it grips me and it tortures Me until I master it.

[Tonya Moseley]

Listen, Gene, I know you think you're Gene Simmons, man, but, Richard, if you're.

[Sponsor Announcer]

In there somewhere, please just give me a sign.

[Richard Kind]

I didn't expect you to greet me with open arms, but I did expect open legs.

[Terry Gross]

All right, Richard Kind, welcome to Fresh Air. I have to ask you because this question is as much about me as it is about you. So when I interviewed Gene Simmons many years ago, he said to me, if you want to welcome me with open arms, you'll also have to welcome me with open legs.

[Richard Kind]

I don't know anything about Gene Simmons. My reference about Gene Simmons is kiss. Seeing him with makeup. And then John sent me the very contentious interview you had with him. So I said, oh, that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to be that contentious. Very, very. I don't want to say stoic, but he was not even somber, but he was still. And he just talks these awful things. He was awful to you. He's terrible.

[Terry Gross]

I got a lot of mileage out of that, though.

[Richard Kind]

Did you? Okay, well, a lot of attention.

[Terry Gross]

Got a lot of attention.

[Richard Kind]

Oh, good, good.

[Terry Gross]

Yeah. Insulting me was actually doing me a favor, evidently.

[Richard Kind]

Don't expect it from me. I'm not that kind of.

[Terry Gross]

Okay. Okay. Yeah. So everybody's Live. Your new late night talk show is adapted from last year's Netflix series, Everybody's in la. How did Mulaney describe it to you when he asked you to be his sidekick?

[Richard Kind]

Yeah, he didn't. Now, I've got to say this about that show. We were supposed to do six last May, Friday, and then Monday through Friday. And he said, even if we get moon landing ratings, we're not doing anymore. So you can imagine my surprise when I read he's doing 12 more. It didn't even say whether or not I was coming back. Then when I spoke to him, I said, listen, John, you don't have to ask me to do it. You know, it was six and out. And he goes. I go, I won't be insulted. He goes, I'd be very insulted, but he didn't even call me. And then, oh, my gosh. Then I find out we're doing 12. This is not what I was born to do. It was a lark when I did the first six, it was fun. Oh, my gosh, now it's a job. Now it's. I better be good. We're on live all over the world on Netflix. All over the world. What if I say something that's so unfunny or God forbid. Something I would regret saying, I can't take it back.

[Terry Gross]

Yeah, yeah.

[Richard Kind]

Somebody asked, is this the largest audience you've ever played to? I said, yes, the world is the largest audience I've ever played to.

[Terry Gross]

You're an actor and you've been in so many things, but you're not a big celebrity. Like, everybody's seen you in at least one thing. So many people know who you are, but you're not famous in the way that your good friend George Clooney is famous.

[Richard Kind]

That is correct.

[Terry Gross]

And you've said you like it that way.

[Richard Kind]

I didn't know I would like it that way because my brain, much less my career, has gone through different permutations over the years. When I was a kid, you know, a kid lies in bed and dreams of being center fielder for the Yankees or, you know, being an astronaut, being a rock star. I wanted to be a movie star. I wanted to be up, you know, on the big screen. The funny thing is, when I was angry at my parents, I wasn't going to write them a note that I'm running away. I was going to make a film and show it in the theater. That's how I was going to tell them I'm running away.

[Terry Gross]

Make a film about them.

[Richard Kind]

Yeah. And go, I'll show you. I'm going to go make it big. And you'll see, you'll see, you'll be sorry that you didn't let me go see that movie. And that's what I thought about. So, you know, it was on. That's what it was. And I had a dream. My grandparents used to take me to Broadway because they lived in New York. We lived near. We lived in Pennsylvania, in Bucks County. And so I would come where I was from. My joke is, you either went to the Spectrum to see the Rolling Stones or you went to Madison Square Garden. I went to Madison Square Garden. All my friends went to the Spectrum and still live in Philly. I went to New York because that's what I knew. My grandparents showed me the city and I wanted to be Zero Mostel. Zero Mostel and Robert Preston. That's who I wanted to be.

[Terry Gross]

Oh, well, you got to be Zero Mostel.

[Richard Kind]

I did.

[Terry Gross]

I've even got to be in two shows. And A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum.

[Richard Kind]

I did. And I did.

[Terry Gross]

And the producers.

[Richard Kind]

Listen, your intro was really good because you pointed out things I'm very proud of. Okay. A lot of people just look at the IMDb page and, you know, like. And give some little Credit of a movie that I don't even remember doing. But I liked what you mentioned. You know, the thing is, when you look me up, you see a lot of the movies and TV shows, but, like, I did an opera at New York City. Opera.

[Terry Gross]

I want to play a clip from the series Girls 5 ever about a girl group.

[Richard Kind]

You really did your work. Yeah, that's a good one.

[Terry Gross]

And this clip seems almost like a self parody. So the girl group that dawn, the Sara Bareilles character, is in, has a show at Radio City Music hall, but they're having trouble selling tickets. So she's running around the streets of Manhattan looking for a famous person for the show who could help, and she sees a film or a TV show is being shot and notices you at the crafts table. Here's the clip.

[Tonya Moseley]

Oh, oh, oh, wait, wait.

[Terry Gross]

You're somebody, right?

[Tonya Moseley]

What, do I know you from everything?

[Richard Kind]

I got an IMDb page longer than a wizard's beard.

[Terry Gross]

You're Richard Kind. Oh, you're Bing Bong.

[Tonya Moseley]

Hey, what are you doing tomorrow?

[Richard Kind]

Why?

[Terry Gross]

My girl group booked Radio City because we're making our big comeback and we.

[Tonya Moseley]

Haven'T sold any tickets because of a variety of things.

[Richard Kind]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You got a list of problems longer than a wizard's Man, I said that already. What else is long?

[Melinda French Gates]

CVS receipt.

[Richard Kind]

CVS receipt. That's funny. Pretend I said that.

[Tonya Moseley]

Can you do something in our show?

[Terry Gross]

You can really use someone who can move the needle.

[Richard Kind]

No, no, no, no, no. I'm not a needle mover, and that's by design. I've spent the past 40 years striking the perfect balance between constantly working and never getting bugged in a deli. And another thing.

[Terry Gross]

Why would you say and another thing.

[Tonya Moseley]

And then take a big bite?

[Richard Kind]

I mistimed him. You overshot. Never chase the big time. The big time is bad news. That's when the fighting starts. People get desperate, friends turn on each other. What you want is the medium time. Never above number five on the call sheet of life. That's happiness. Look at me. I work every day of my life doing what I love. Well, not today. Today I had a doctor's appointment. I'm fine. And then I walk by here, I see the spread, I put some tissue in my collar, and I pretend like I'm working here. What is this anyway? Euphoria? Did I guess on this show? Eh, it doesn't matter. The important thing is I don't have time for this.

[Terry Gross]

Zendaya Mod Apatow.

[Richard Kind]

Oh, my gosh. That conversation was longer than A CBS receipt. That's funny. I just made that up.

[Terry Gross]

That's a great scene. I love that scene.

[Richard Kind]

It's a great scene.

[Terry Gross]

Was that supposed to be a parody of you?

[Richard Kind]

Sure, and it was. And it's hilarious. And I'm mortified, you know? Yeah, but it's hilarious. It is a parody. I say yes to a lot of things. I'm in so many things. You know, I'll go back to the question you asked because you addressed George, who is my dear friend. And remember, I came up in the business with him. And my joke was is that at the time that we worked together, I was the handsome one. And then our careers went a different way. So he can't go out. Like, I can go out. He can't even go to a bar the way that I can go to a bar. He's gonna get. He's gonna get bothered. You get tired of that and you realize, dare I say it, you don't deserve it. You're a little bit of a fraud.

[Terry Gross]

Is that how you feel? That you're a little bit of a fraud?

[Richard Kind]

Oh, every day I feel like a fraud. Every single day. I'm waiting for the world to say, I'm not that talented. I don't have that. I'm not that good. Every day. I wake up like that. Every day. But a flip side of that, a friend of mine said, I may not always be great anymore, but I think I'm good enough to never stink. You know what I mean? I'm not going to be bad. I'll be fine. There are parts that I hope I'm great in, and I always yearn not just to be great, but to be better than everybody else in a scene. I want to be great. But if you're playing tennis with a better tennis player, it's just not gonna happen. So there are some times when I say, you know what? You're not gonna win an Academy Award for this role. Just do it correctly. Don't try and stand out. Don't try and steal. Just do it. Just do the part. And that's a very different way to come to set.

[Tonya Moseley]

We're listening to Terry's interview with Richard Kind. He's currently in the Netflix series Everybody's Live with John Mulaney as Mulaney's sidekick. We'll hear more of their conversation after a break. I'm Tonya Moseley, and this is FRESH AIR Weekend.

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[Terry Gross]

Ts and Cs apply so you had a significant role in a film I really Love, A Serious man that was made by the Coen brothers and Michael Stuhlbark plays a man whose wife is leaving him. He might be losing his teaching job, a student is kind of blackmailing him. His whole life is falling apart and he's also wrestling with the concept of God and with his Judaism. You play his brother, you're a gambler, you're broke, you have a sebaceous cyst that's become a big problem, you're in misery and it's a kind of modern day version of the Book of Job. At least that's how I think of it. And I'm wondering if you thought of it that way and if you read or re read the Book of Job to do the role. And if people talked about it on the set?

[Richard Kind]

Not at all.

[Terry Gross]

I'm glad I asked.

[Richard Kind]

I had a teacher who said every answer you need is in the script. Just read the script. You don't have to do any research. Certainly the Book of Job wouldn't have done anything. I didn't think that was telling the Book of Job. I thought I was talking about this guy named Arthur Gopnik and these were his circumstances. And you play pretend. If it meshes into what you think is the Book of Job and you interpret all of that, God bless you. But no, no, no, that's not what I did at all. I just played the scene, what are my circumstances? How do I feel? And you just play pretend. That's what it is.

[Terry Gross]

What was the Coen brothers approach to directing you from your point of view as an actor, what was it like to work with them?

[Richard Kind]

They're great. I love them. You're always at the height of your game. I was surprised at how word perfect they liked their script, but they should, because they're great writers. Sometimes Joel would take a physical position that sort of told me everything about what he wanted. In the scene, the scene where the police are at the door, he sat down in a chair and he leaned back. And Joel is a long, lanky man, and his face almost looked five inches longer than it is. And that's what I saw in when I leaned back in the chair, dare I say, he almost looked like a horse when he was looking back. And that's what I saw.

[Terry Gross]

The movie. A Serious man is also about, you know, like, struggling with your faith.

[Richard Kind]

Yes.

[Terry Gross]

Because the Michael Stubar character has conversations with rabbis and he's kind of losing his faith because everything's going wrong in his life.

[Richard Kind]

Right.

[Terry Gross]

I know you were on Finding your Roots and you found out that some of your ancestors were religious leaders in the Pale of Settlement. And the Pale of Settlement was during the Russian Empire. It was a large area of what we now call Eastern Europe that was basically the ghetto for Jews. Like Jews had to live within this expanse of land. And so many American Jews, their grandparents or ancestors lived in the Pale of Settlement. What did it do to your own faith or religious practice, if you had any? I know you're born Jewish. I have no idea how observant you are. But what did it do to your level of observance to find out about people on your family tree being religious leaders?

[Richard Kind]

I know what God is to me. I don't believe in a Jewish God. I believe in God. I believe there is a power, and I believe that he encompasses all religions. I believe that religion is just something that we go to to make us feel better or to give us some sort of foundation because the world is so full of chaos and we can't really find ourselves. What I do believe is in my ancestors, and I believe that Judaism, that that form of foundation must survive because these people gave their lives and they sacrificed and they believed in the Jewish religion and in a state of Israel, and let them have a foundation that they believe in called Judaism. So it's very important that I know what my roots are and what my heritage is and to serve my heritage.

[Terry Gross]

Do you practice any. Do you observe the holidays and the Sabbath and all that? Like, how far do you.

[Richard Kind]

No, I don't observe the Sabbath. What I do observe is the high holy days. Because that God, who I believe in and I live my life daily by, I hope, acting correctly to my fellow man, which is a form of prayer to me and a form of going to church or going to temple. Wow, I can't believe I just said going to church. I believe that is my way of serving God. I believe I'm a good person. And I try and do, I really do try and do unto others as I would myself. So I do go to Rosh Hashanah and I do go to Yom Kippur. And I am very observant about that. Part of it's karma. Part of it is, hey, don't tilt the boat, you know, don't rock the boat right now. Just keep going. And it's also the acknowledgement of my parents, my grandparents and all those heritage. But I can't believe that my. How my genetics have just dissipated over the years, so that they started out as rabbis in the 1600s. And this is what we end up with. Me, Richard Kyne, that's horrible. But I do try and study as much as I can and read and try and be up on news and be as responsible a citizen as I can to serve rabbis who were there at the time.

[Terry Gross]

What you're saying reminds me of something that you've told another interviewer, which is you said, I have a huge ego with no confidence. You want to explain?

[Richard Kind]

Yeah. Being an actor, it's abnormal. It's an anomaly. It's unnatural for a man to get up on a stage in front of people. It's unnatural to be in front of a camera while 50 to 100 people are behind the camera and pretend that you're somebody else and just lay bare your emotions or pretend you're somebody else. It's unnatural. You know how people are scared of getting attention and I'm waving my arms going, look at me, look at me, look at me. And yet with that look at me, look at me, look at me comes a fear of what I said earlier. I'm a fraud. Am I good enough? I can't. I don't know whether or not what I'm doing. And I think any actor worth his salt would like to be better and give a better performance than what they gave. There's, oh, my gosh, did I do it correctly? Should I do it again? I need affirmation all the time. It's why I like live theater. Even if it's a drama, I can feel the audience listening to me, liking me. There's no bottom to the urn of love. That I need. That is lack of confidence. And yet my ego says, go out and do it and do it and do it louder than everybody else. It's who I am. I'm oversized in my voice. I'm loud in my opinions. When I'm opinionated, I'm really loud. And even my acting, a funny line that my friend Craig Bierko said in a toast once, he goes, the astronauts were up in space and they saw two things. The Great Wall of China and every acting choice Richard Kind ever made.

[Terry Gross]

I love that line so much.

[Richard Kind]

It's so funny. It's so funny. Is it how I chose to live my life? No, I wouldn't choose it, but it's what I'm saddled with.

[Terry Gross]

Do you tell jokes? I mean, you obviously have a great sense of humor, but do you actually tell joke jokes?

[Richard Kind]

Nobody tells a joke better than I do.

[Terry Gross]

Oh, great. Do you want to tell us one that you love?

[Richard Kind]

Sure. So this mother is making her teenage son's bed, and she's tucking in the sheets, and she reaches underneath and she pulls out a magazine of bondage, of, like, handcuffs and whips. And she goes, oh, my God. So the husband comes home, she goes, honey, honey, honey, look what I found under Timmy's bed. He goes, oh, my God. She goes, what are we gonna do? He goes, well, we're certainly not gonna spank him.

[Terry Gross]

That's great.

[Richard Kind]

Oh, I got lots of them. Nobody tells a joke better than I do.

[Terry Gross]

Well, Richard Kind, thank you so much for talking with us.

[Richard Kind]

Oh, thank you, Terry. This was fun. I enjoyed it. You're great. You're great.

[Tonya Moseley]

Richard Kind is currently in the Netflix series Everybody's Live With John Mulaney, and he spoke with Terry Gross. In the new TV series, you, Friends and Neighbors, Jon Hamm stars as a rich hedge fund guy who loses his job and and turns to crime to pay for his exceedingly high bills. The show, which also stars Amanda Peet, has already been renewed for a second season by Apple tv. Our critic at large, John Powers, calls it a sharply entertaining series that harkens back to earlier portraits of suburban life, but gives things an up to date spin.

[John Powers]

In the decades after World War II, America was flooded with novels, movies, and hot button studies pondering the nature of suburbia, its comfort and consumerism, its safety and soullessness. Nobody explored these themes any better than John Cheever, whose elegantly devastating stories captured suburban life in both its sunlit splendor and shadowy desolation. Take, for instance, his famous 1956 story The Housebreaker of Shady Hill. Its hero, Johnny Hake, loses his prosperous job and, kneading dough, begins robbing his friends houses. You get a 2025 riff on that same idea in the new Apple TV series you, Friends and Neighbors. Created by Jonathan Tropper, who made his name with a series of novels in the Tom Parada Nick Hornby vein, this comic drama stars Jon Hamm as a hedge fund hotshot whose cushy suburban existence goes kerfluy. Yet the show isn't merely about the flamboyant crisis of a handsome, privileged guy, but about a culture in which wealth comes lined with rage and melancholy. Ham plays our hero and narrator Andrew Cooper, known as Coop, who gets canned for a sexual indiscretion and finds his career in ruins. He's already lost his family, which happened when he caught his wife Mel, that's Amanda Pete, in bed with one of his friends, an ex NBA player. Outwardly, Coop pretends that nothing has happened, but internally he's changed. Where he once thought of his luxurious town of Westmont Village as paradise, he's now cynical about its values. He starts breaking into his friends houses, stealing things like Patek Philippe watches worth $250,000, and in the process discovering their secrets. From there, the show expands outwards, introducing many other characters, such as Coop's sometime lover Sam. That's Olivia Munn, who's caught in a nasty divorce. His money manager Barney, played by Hoon Lee his wife's Dominican house cleaner Elena, played by Aimee Carrero and his musician sister Ally. That's Tony winner Lena hall, whom Coop has taken in after her breakdown. They all figure in a storyline chock full of betrayal, theft, infidelity and murder. Juicy stuff. Not to mention Coop's sardonic voiceover mocking the country club fees and fetishized brands of scotch that define the suburban enclave he now disdains. The show's emotional center is Coop's struggle to cope with his ex wife and disaffected teenage children. Here he's just dropped his son off after school when Mel rebukes him because this isn't one of the days he's supposed to see the kids.

[Terry Gross]

What are you doing here?

[Sponsor Announcer]

I took Hunter for some ice cream.

[Terry Gross]

No, it's not Tuesday.

[Sponsor Announcer]

So I've been told. Is Tori here?

[John Powers]

She's not home yet.

[Richard Kind]

What? What?

[Sponsor Announcer]

What is the look?

[Terry Gross]

I don't give you any look.

[Richard Kind]

You are giving me the look.

[Sponsor Announcer]

That is the look where you're trying.

[Richard Kind]

Not to give me a look.

[Sponsor Announcer]

So what's the problem?

[Terry Gross]

I think it's a little Tricky when you show up on a day that.

[Melinda French Gates]

It isn't your day.

[Sponsor Announcer]

I took him out for ice cream.

[Melinda French Gates]

My God, it's profusing for him.

[Terry Gross]

Boundaries are there for a reason.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Boundaries? You mean like monogamy?

[Terry Gross]

Really, Coop, it's been almost two years. When are you gonna stop playing that card?

[Sponsor Announcer]

I don't know. What is the statute of limitations on adultery?

[Terry Gross]

If you were even remotely self aware, you'd realize these things don't happen in a vacuum. And you could maybe take a little portion of responsibility for your side of it.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Okay, I'm sorry, but you sleep with Nick, you kick me out of this place, I'm forced to pay for this entire mess, and I'm the one that's not being responsible.

[Terry Gross]

I'm not doing this right now.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Oh, well, it's really no fun doing it alone.

[John Powers]

In recent years, we've grown used to shows in which alpha males like Coop all but wear a tattoo that reads Toxic Masculinity. I'm pleased that Tropper takes the show someplace subtler, juggling the truth that his hero can be at once a wounded soul with whom one often identifies and a self centered man who oozes entitlement from his Princeton degree in Maserati to his discovery that the world's unfair only after it's been unfair to him. It's a perfect role for Ham, who carries with him our memories of Don Draper's dark souled charisma, then takes this sort of character in a new direction. Funnier, sadder and more sympathetic. He's never been better. Although his Coop starts out as a self described jerk, his character grows wiser and more self aware as the episodes unfold. Trouble is, robbery is a risky business that requires expertise more than self knowledge. As his fence Lou warns him, nothing is so dangerous as somebody who doesn't know what they don't know. Watching your friends and neighbors, I found myself thinking that in some huge ways today's suburbs are undeniably better than they once were. They're less exclusively white and the wives have fulfilling careers, but in other ways they feel worse. Tropper offers little of the tender lyricism that makes Cheever's suburbs so seductive. It's not just that Coop's world is more grossly materialistic than before with rolls Royces and 40 grand bottles of wine, but that its denizens are far more cut off from one another and from any sense of nobler values. In the Housebreaker of Shady Hill, Johnny Hake steals $900 from a friend and spends the story, feeling guilty and ashamed that he's become a thief in the far flashier your Friends and neighbors. Coop suffers little such remorse, not in the first six episodes anyway. Nor does the show judge him harshly for his thefts. He's got an expensive life to pay for, after all. And besides, his victims are just rich jerks like him.

[Tonya Moseley]

John Powers reviewed you'd Friends and Neighbors, which is now streaming on Apple tv. Coming up, Melinda French Gates talks about her new book, the Next Day, which reflects on motherhood, grief, philanthropy and life after divorce. Hi, I'm Tanya Moseley, and this is FRESH AIR weekend.

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[Tonya Moseley]

Our next guest is Melinda French Gates. Five years ago, she stood at a crossroads. After 27 years of marriage to Microsoft co founder Bill Gates, she decided to walk away not only from the relationship that it defined much of her adult life, but eventually from the philanthropic empire they built together. Last spring, Melinda left the Gates foundation, the organization that had become the heartbeat of her professional identity. In her new book, the Next Day, Transitions Change. And Moving Forward, Gates reflects on these seismic shifts, not just the end of her marriage or the reinvention of her public life, but the deeply personal evolution that came with those transitions. She takes us inside the moments that have defined her becoming a mother, grieving the loss of one of her best friends, and grappling with the hard earned lessons of philanthropy. Melinda French Gates is the co founder and former co chair of the Gates foundation, the world's largest private charitable organization. She's also the founder of Pivotal Ventures, which focuses on social progress for women and families in the United States. Melinda French Gates, welcome to FRESH air.

[Melinda French Gates]

Thanks for having me, Tanya.

[Tonya Moseley]

Melinda, I want to talk for a moment about your philanthropic work because we all have been hearing about the ripple effects of the Trump administration's funding cuts. And I know that philanthropy is such a tightly interwoven web that often works in collaboration with the government to fund initiatives. How are these cuts affecting the work that you do?

[Melinda French Gates]

Well, the cuts of things like USAID are absolutely devastating for families all over the world. I mean, let's be honest, women will not have access to maternal health services because of these cuts. Everything, you know, that philanthropy does is we try and find catalytic wedges and ways to work. We take risk where a government can't with taxpayer money and shouldn't. But then once we know something works, it's really up to government to scale it up. So to see that women won't have health services or there'll be more cases of malaria next year, it's almost unimaginable to me, especially given that, you know, both Republican and Democratic administrations really relied on USAID and not only saw the good work that it was doing, but started to scale it up even more. It's why we actually have less death and disease in the world. So it just makes no sense to me.

[Tonya Moseley]

How are you thinking about where to focus your energy? I know that over the last few years with Pivotal Ventures, you've really been focusing on women's health and reproductive rights. And so this has to have an impact on the ways that you all are able to make impact.

[Melinda French Gates]

To know right now in the United States that my two beautiful little granddaughters will have fewer rights than I had growing up. That just doesn't make any sense to me. And so in some ways it makes my work all the more pressing. And I'm still doing what I have been doing. I'm putting more money, though now into women's health. I I made a billion dollar commitment when I came out of the foundation that through Pivotal Ventures, we would try and really work on some of these places where organizations, for instance, in the United States had been playing defense in terms of women's issues to help put them on the offense. But Also we announced 250 million of that is for a women's health fund. And we're taking proposals from all over the world to figure out what are ways that we can really advance women's health across the world.

[Tonya Moseley]

Is it a chaotic line of work in this moment because you're dealing with new information that's coming out Laws that are passed, changes, cuts. All of these things put so much of your work in flux.

[Melinda French Gates]

You know, where it's the most chaotic and devastating is when you go out on the ground. So I was down in Louisiana about a month ago, and to hear that doctors don't even know which services they can provide women, you know, what can they counsel on? What can they not counsel on? Women who are very concerned about their health saying, I can't have another baby. But, you know, where am I going to get birth control? Or, wow, I show up at the system and the bias in the system. They're not even listening to what I know about my own body. So to think that we are doing things from the highest level right now in the United States that are making things worse on the ground for moms and babies, it just. It's almost incomprehensible. I mean, to have a child, two children, now die of measles. Measles in the United States.

[Tonya Moseley]

Wow.

[Melinda French Gates]

When that is completely preventable, do you know how devastating that is for those families? That's where the chaos is, and that's where the saddest part of what's going on is happening.

[Tonya Moseley]

One of the things that is very clear in this book is it's a reminder that really no amount of wealth can really protect us from the human experiences of grief and divorce. And I'm sure you often encounter people who treat you like your money shields you from those life's hardships. I've just always wonder, how do you navigate that tension of what to share and what to withhold, knowing that. That someone like you is viewed that way?

[Melinda French Gates]

Well, I think we all want authentic, real connection with other human beings, right? And we can't, you know, we can't really know more than, I don't know, they say maybe a hundred people. A hundred. Some people say 150. But, you know, I know who my closest family and friends are. I treasure them, they treasure me. I know who's kind of in my next ring, in my ring beyond that. But I do want audiences to see that, you know, great wealth does not shield you. I have an absurd amount of wealth, and I'm doing my very best to give it away in the way that I think can benefit society from my lens on society. But what I want people to know is that I'm a human being. And they may put a label on me, but that label doesn't really define who I am. I know who I am. And so by being my authentic self, I hope they can see, okay, she's gone through struggles and hardship too, but come out the other side. And so maybe I can as well.

[Tonya Moseley]

You grew up in a middle class family in Dallas, Texas. Your dad, what a role model for you. He was an aerospace engineer. Your mom stayed home to care for you and your siblings. Your father really had an influence on your career aspirations. You write about how this wasn't just conceptual. You all were would get to see and hear conversations about his work through visitors who would come to your house. What memory sticks out to you the most?

[Melinda French Gates]

Well, one of my dad would often talk at the dinner table about how his teams, he was working on the Apollo mission and how his teams were better when they had females on them, female mathematicians. And so as the teams would change and be reconstructed, he was always trying to get women onto his team. And so for me, this played out because we would go in the summer to the company picnics and my dad would make sure my sister and I met those women. So we met not only the men on his teams, but we met the women. And I could see, literally see women in these roles, smart women that I admired and who I could talk to. And I would say, oh, okay, I guess my dad's right here. And so that played out for me as an influence of, oh, I could be like her if I wanted to be. And that was having that role model, Having both a father who believed in me and parents who were both determined that their children would all go to college and that they would take on the debt, which was, you know, a huge gift to us as siblings. But then to have these role models specifically in front of my eyes, that really had a huge influence on me.

[Tonya Moseley]

Your father, he showed you all role models, of course, but he also, he really invested in your, you and your sister's dreams in a way that, I mean, it really is somewhat novel for that timeframe in the 60s and 70s. What do you think was different about your dad and his outlook on what women do and what they could do?

[Melinda French Gates]

I think again, because he had lived experience, he could see that, okay, this engineering project, like putting a man on the moon, that is audacious. And he was a piece of it, right? But this, see that his teens literally were better because these women were on that. He had a lived experience to say, this could be great for my daughters and for society. And my dad wasn't afraid to speak up. He encouraged us to speak up even when he didn't necessarily agree with him. But he also believed in us. And I think that I cannot stress enough the importance a father's imprint makes on a daughter like my dad, literally, we were walking as a family. We would often go out to lunch on a Sunday and then take a walk. And we were literally walking by this new IBM building at this sort of beautiful office park. And my dad, as we walked by, literally said, melinda, you should put your resume up on that door. You should tape it up on the door. And I said, dad, what are you talking about? He said, they would be silly not to hire you. And he could see in me and my sister what I couldn't see myself. Which was, okay, you're in college, you're getting a computer science degree. There aren't very many of you, and so they should want to hire you. And guess what? He was right. I eventually did get hired by IBM.

[Tonya Moseley]

Your mom never got to go to college, but she wanted to.

[Melinda French Gates]

She did. And her parents just. She grew up in a day and age where her parents had two girls and they just didn't see the need for her to go to college. She certainly could have gone. And, you know, and she ended up regretting that she took some college classes later. My mom is plenty smart. And later, my parents start a family real estate business. And my mom is the one. I mean, they're both running it at night, but it's my mom running it during the day and making sure all the pieces come together of all the various properties they have and tenants and laws and all of that. So. But she and my dad were determined that both their two girls and their two boys would go through college. Cause they just thought it really was a ticket in life to go where you wanted.

[Tonya Moseley]

One of the things that you really admired about your mom, of course, is that she was a great mother. But she, through example, taught you also how to be a great mother. So you have these two big examples in your life of how to be as you move through the world. But one of the best pieces of advice you write that your mother gave you was to set your own agenda or someone else will do it for you. And I was wondering, what is a time when you had to really put that advice to the test?

[Melinda French Gates]

Well, I'll say when I was working at the foundation, you know, I started to see through all my travels the difference that when a woman could space the births of her children, it made an enormous difference in the children's health and being able to go to school and then ultimately the wealth of the family. And yet I would meet so many women around the world who knew about contraceptives but didn't have access. And as I started to learn and study about it and think, is this the right thing for us to do as a foundation, I learned the history of contraceptives and when women had had them and under what circumstances and when they hadn't. And I realized we needed to do something about this as a foundation. And so I decided on the global st. I'm going to set the agenda because for whatever reason this has fallen off the global health agenda, and yet it's vital for women and for babies. We were losing, we still are too many moms in childbirth because their babies were coming too close and too often, particularly in these low income countries. And then the babies were dying as well.

[Tonya Moseley]

It's really interesting in this moment that what was seen as a soft issue is now almost the opposite of that. You're fighting against many headwinds as divestment in women's issues is really like at the center of government funding cuts and lots of other cuts and laws.

[Melinda French Gates]

Yes. And I always say, you know, what is it that we value as society? Don't we value our children and our babies? If you value our children and our babies, don't their mothers need to be healthy? We know a mom is healthier when she can space the births of her children. So to me, it's that we are getting some of our values misaligned right now. And they aren't the values that I hold dear. And I don't think they're the values that most families hold dear. To me, we need to really think about our values and align our government funding with those values. And we seem to be headed in the wrong direction in my point of view on those issues right now.

[Tonya Moseley]

Speaking of values, earlier when you said you've been trying your best to give your money away, I chuckled at that, but I only chuckled because it just sounds funny. But when you're a billionaire, you can't really ever give all your money away. And just a few days ago, Abigail Disney, she's the granddaughter of Walt Disney, she said in an interview that anyone who can't live off of 999 million is a sociopath. And of course I thought about you because you've been saying this in not so many words for a really long time, that it's important to give your wealth away, that you could never really spend it in your lifetime, you or your family. But here's a question. You've been trying to convince other billionaires to give away the majority of their wealth for many years now. And I always wanted to Know, how successful has that been?

[Melinda French Gates]

Well, it's interesting. It's, you know, when we started out with the Giving Pledge, which was Warren Buffett's big idea, that for society it was right, that if you had earned a billion dollars, which I completely agree, you, if you have a billion dollars, you have an absurd amount of wealth. And so you should give, give at least half of it back to society because you have benefited from society, you've benefited from those laws or those roads or the people that helped you along the way to get that scholarship into the college you wanted to go to. You have benefited from that society. And so we set out to role model for society with the Giving Pledge, founded by Warren Buffett, my ex husband Bill Gates and myself to say if you're of this level of wealth, join us and commit to giving half away. I don't, neither of us, none of the three of us would have thought that we would have, you know, over 240 families now that are part of the Giving Pledge. And we have not just first generation givers, but now we have second in some third, third generation givers. And so they're also in countries, I think it's over 30 countries now from around the world. So we just didn't expect that it would grow that large. And I will tell you, there are ripple effects and knock on offenses where they are also convincing others, even others who aren't of as substantial means. Right. And what I always say to people is no matter who you are, the nuns in my high school taught us this as girls, you have something to give back. You know, they sent us out in society to volunteer our time. My only point is we all have things to give back, our time, our energy, our intellect and or our money. And I think that we should all look for ways to do that. And guess what, the funny thing is you also benefit from it. It's just an unbelievable kind of side benefit.

[Tonya Moseley]

Melinda, I really appreciate your time in this book. Thank you so much.

[Melinda French Gates]

Thanks for having me, Tanya.

[Tonya Moseley]

Melinda, Fridge Gates new book is the Next Transitions, Change and Moving Forward. FRESH AIR Weekend is produced by Teresa Madden. FRESH air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our managing producer is Sam Brigger. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Roberta Shorrock, Ann Marie Baldonado, Lauren Krenzel, Monique Nazareth, Thea Chaloner, Susan Yakundi and Anna Bauman. Our digital media producer is Molly CB Nesper with Terry Gross. I'm Tanya Moseley.

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