Comedian Ronny Chieng Didn't Tell His Parents He Got A 'Daily Show' Job

Summary

Fresh Air: Comedian Ronny Chang Didn't Tell His Parents He Got A 'Daily Show' Job

Episode Release Date: December 16, 2024
Host: Terry Gross
Guest: Ronny Chang, comedian, actor, and correspondent for The Daily Show

---

Introduction

In this engaging episode of Fresh Air, host Terry Gross sits down with Ronny Chang, a multi-talented comedian, actor, and political satirist. Ronny offers a unique perspective on comedy, politics, and his multicultural upbringing, providing listeners with an insightful look into his journey from Malaysia to American comedy stages.

Ronny Chang's Background

Ronny Chang was born in Malaysia, where his grandparents had emigrated from China. At the age of three, he briefly lived in Manchester, New Hampshire, before his family returned to Malaysia. Later, Ronny pursued higher education in Australia, obtaining a BA in Finance and a law degree while simultaneously honing his stand-up comedy skills.

Notable Quote:
"I tell my mom, like, hey, I want to try stand-up someday. And my mom was like, oh, okay, cool."
(00:57)

Comedy Career and The Daily Show

Ronny's foray into American comedy took a significant turn when Trevor Noah invited him to audition for The Daily Show in 2015. Despite not knowing Ronny personally from their comedy festival days in Melbourne, Trevor Noah was instrumental in securing Ronny's position on the show. Initially hesitant to share his new role with his parents, Ronny preferred to let his work speak for itself.

Notable Quote:
"I just wanted to do the work. I didn't want to tell them that I joined this institution... So I genuinely just did the job and hoped they'd hear good things about me."
(04:24)

Family and Cultural Influences

Ronny discusses the complexities of his relationship with his parents, particularly relating to his pursuit of comedy. His father's initial skepticism about comedy as a viable career path gave Ronny a chip on his shoulder, fueling his determination to prove himself.

Notable Quote:
"He was worried about what was gonna happen, you know, what my future was gonna be."
(04:16)

Ronny's multicultural background—spanning Malaysia, Singapore, Australia, and the United States—has deeply influenced his comedic style, allowing him to offer diverse perspectives on global and American issues.

Political Humor and Views on Trump

As a correspondent on The Daily Show, Ronny frequently engages in political satire, notably targeting former President Donald Trump. When discussing potential threats from Trump’s administration, Ronny remains cautiously optimistic, citing the resilience of American institutions.

Notable Quote:
"I believe in American institutions. I believe in checks and balances. I believe that the entire founding of America was geared around having a weak federal executive."
(13:56)

Handling Political Divergence with Friends

Living in Honolulu, Ronny encounters friends with differing political views, particularly MAGA supporters. He navigates these relationships by focusing on shared humanity and the unique communal spirit of Hawaii, which emphasizes community over individual differences.

Notable Quote:
"People in Hawaii know how to put community before themselves... I always try to come with the right energy."
(10:02)

Interior Chinatown and Acting

Beyond stand-up, Ronny co-stars in Hulu's Interior Chinatown, a series that satirizes Asian stereotypes in Hollywood. The show features meta-commentary on being typecast, with Ronny playing roles that critique traditional tropes.

Notable Quote:
"We're actually making fun of these stereotypes of these tropes."
(26:32)

In Crazy Rich Asians, Ronny delivered a memorable performance as a wealthy investment banker, demonstrating his versatility as an actor within Asian-themed narratives.

Comedy Across Cultures

Ronny reflects on how performing in different countries has shaped his comedic voice. His experience in Australia provided him with a solid foundation, while relocation to New York City enhanced his comedic prowess through exposure to a diverse and competitive environment.

Notable Quote:
"Being here in this environment made me a better comic... we talk to live human beings every day. So you get a sense of where the cultural zeitgeist is."
(35:02)

Personal Reflections and Philosophy

Ronny adopts a humble approach to his accomplishments, choosing to focus on the craft rather than immediate recognition. This philosophy extends to his decision not to prematurely share his Daily Show role with his parents, emphasizing the importance of authentic work over external validation.

Notable Quote:
"I think the work comes first... my philosophy was, just do the job and then maybe they'll hear good things about you."
(04:48)

Conclusion

Ronny Chang's journey from Malaysia to becoming a prominent figure in American comedy is a testament to his resilience, cultural adaptability, and dedication to his craft. Through his work on The Daily Show, Interior Chinatown, and his Netflix special Love to Hate It, Ronny continues to challenge stereotypes and bring a fresh, global perspective to contemporary comedy.

Notable Quote:
"I appreciate being from Malaysia and seeing Singapore and seeing Australia and then coming to America and having a bit more perspective on things... sometimes feels like a superpower."
(33:34)

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Ronny Chang's candid discussions on Fresh Air offer listeners an in-depth understanding of the multifaceted nature of modern comedy, the impact of cultural identity, and the intricate dance between humor and politics.

Transcript

[Capital One Ad]

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[Terry Gross]

I'm Terry Gross. My guest is comic, actor and political satirist Ronny Chang. He became a correspondent for the satirical news show the daily show in 2015 after Trevor Noah asked him to aud. Now Chang is one of the rotating correspondents who anchor the show. He also co stars in the new Hulu series Interior Chinatown. He had a memorable funny scene in Crazy Rich Asians as a wealthy investment banker in Singapore. Ronny Chang has a new Netflix comedy special called Love to Hate it, which starts streaming tomorrow. He brings an international perspective to his comedy. He was born in Malaysia, where his grandparents emigrated from China. From age 3 to 7, he lived in Manchester, New Hampshire, where his parents attended college. Then the family returned to Malaysia, which is basically across the bridge from Singapore, so he spent a lot of time there. He attended college in Australia where he got his BA in finance and his law degree while also doing standup comedy. Let's start with a clip from his new comedy special. This is from a section about how he and his wife aren't ready for children, but his wife had her eggs harvested for possible future use. He's imagining what his child, if he ever has one, might say to him, daddy, Daddy, when I grow up, I.

[Ronny Chang]

Want to be a stand up comedian just like you. Just feel the Chinese coming. All right, Stand up comedy. Are you out of your mind? That's not even a real job. Like, what do you think is gonna happen? You're just gonna run around America and tell jokes to strangers who don't give a about your mental health? And even if you do somehow manage to overcome the odds and make it to even a semi professional level as a standup comedian, do you think there's any chance in hell you be funnier than me? Daddy's a borderline arena acting some markets. Have you seen my IMDb page? I mean everything. I won't crush your career, Gary. Your mother and I didn't spend a fortune to make a A grade blastocyst for them to become a B grade comedian. I will never watch anything you do go to law is what my father said to me.

[Terry Gross]

Ronnie Chang, welcome to Fresh air. It's a pleasure to have you on the show.

[Ronny Chang]

Thank you. Thanks for having me on. And I like to note the contrast between the yelling of that clip and how calm the rest of the interview.

[Terry Gross]

Will be, what else did your father say to you when you found out you wanted to be a comedian?

[Ronny Chang]

He said, no white person will ever buy a ticket to go watch you.

[Terry Gross]

Wow. Did you think that that might be true?

[Ronny Chang]

No, I didn't think that was true, but I didn't tell him I was gonna go do it. I went to go do it, and then he found out. Like, after I was. I've been doing standup comedy for about two years, and then he found out, and then, you know, and he was trying to protect me. You know, he was. He was worried. He was worried about what was gonna happen, you know, what my future was gonna be. And then later on, he got behind it.

[Terry Gross]

He wasn't. Nevertheless. When you were on the Daily show and you started on the Daily show, you didn't tell your mother?

[Ronny Chang]

No, I didn't tell them. I got hired on the show.

[Terry Gross]

What were you afraid of?

[Ronny Chang]

It wasn't so much afraid. It was that I didn't want to brag about small achievements. I just wanted to do the work. I didn't want to tell them that I joined this institution, which, quite frankly, they didn't really know about anyway, and make it sound as though I made it, quote, unquote, you know what I mean? So I genuinely.

[Terry Gross]

Look at that. That's a big achievement. That's not a small achievement.

[Ronny Chang]

Sure. But I don't know. I think the work comes first. You know, getting the job is one thing, but then can you do the job? And so it honestly just came out of kind of humility, of like, oh, yeah, I'm on the Daily show, but doesn't mean I've done anything yet, so why tell them? You know, like, my philosophy was, like, just do the job and then maybe they'll hear good things about you and then that will be the. You know what I mean? Like, I didn't need the flowers from them at that point.

[Terry Gross]

You deprived them of bragging rights, quite.

[Ronny Chang]

Frankly, if you wanna talk about bragging rights for them. Once I started doing decent work and people started liking what I was doing, then they would go up to them and be like, hey, your son is on the Daily Show. So, you know, I think. Which I think is better than you coming out and trying to brag about something that, you know, at that point, I hadn't even been on screen yet. You know, I'm not sure how popular the Daily show is in Singapore, Malaysia, so.

[Terry Gross]

Right.

[Ronny Chang]

So I'd rather just do the work. And then, you know, hopefully people like.

[Terry Gross]

It a line that really stands out to me in the bit that we just heard is, you know, why would you do that? Why would you become a comic? Why would you make jokes to people who don't care about your mental health?

[Ronny Chang]

Yeah.

[Terry Gross]

Did your father say that, or did you just come up with that as.

[Ronny Chang]

Something that would have to be clear? That's a bit my dad never.

[Terry Gross]

But why did that occur to you, too, write that, like, to people who don't care about your mental health? I thought that was very funny. I've never heard anybody put it that way.

[Ronny Chang]

So the premise of the bit is that if I have a kid, what's gonna happen, you know, if they want to do standup comedy? And I realize, like, I'm just like my parents, like, even me, who has done standup comedy professionally, if my kid want to do it, I'd be like, my dad, too. I'd be like, why are you doing this? This is crazy. Especially me knowing what's involved in standup comedy. All the more that I'm like, are you sure you want to do this? And one of the things I know about comedy that is, I think, quite a difficult thing to overcome is overcoming people's apathy and their lack of concern for your mental health. Which, by the way, is the reason. It's part of the reason why I never told anyone I was doing comedy, not my friends or my parents or my family, because I wanted to test it in that environment. I wanted to test my comedy in an environment where nobody cared about you. Because I felt like if I could make these people who didn't care about me at all laugh, I could, maybe this could be a job for me.

[Terry Gross]

So you grew up mostly in Malaysia, which is one bridge away from Singapore. You compared it to me to how New York is to New Jersey.

[Ronny Chang]

Yes. Yeah.

[Terry Gross]

Or how Philadelphia is to New Jersey on the opposite side.

[Ronny Chang]

Sure. I'll let you guess which one's New York, which one's New Jersey in this analogy. But yes, it's just a bridge across that is called the Causeway. People cross the bridge from Johor Bahru, Malaysia, to Singapore every day. Every morning, people wake up in Malaysia, go to work in Singapore, and come back braving the traffic and the fumes and the immigration.

[Terry Gross]

So were you exposed to much standup in Malaysia or Singapore?

[Ronny Chang]

No, was not the standup I was exposed to was in New Hampshire when my parents would play Seinfeld, the sitcom. And so you would see Seinfeld do stand up in his interstitials right in between the narrative he'd do stand up. And I remember asking my mom, like, hey. And that was the first time I saw. I even knew that that could be a art form, just standing there and telling jokes with no other props. And, you know, it's. It's just you and a microphone. And I told my mom, like, hey, I want to try that someday. And my mom was like, oh, okay, cool. And I was like, four years old.

[Terry Gross]

You've said you were introduced to Jewish people from Seinfeld.

[Ronny Chang]

Yes.

[Terry Gross]

The lines of Larry David and Jerry Seinfeld. So what did it make you think Jewish people were like?

[Ronny Chang]

To be honest, when we watched it, when we were watching in Malaysia and Singapore, we think that they're white people, at least for me, anyway. I didn't realize, like, they were, like, a special type of ethnicity. I thought they were just a type of white person. And so when you're watching it, you're like. You get little samples of Jewishness in it. Right. They'll drop a Yiddish word. They'll have a Hanukkah. They'll have little things here and there where you slowly start to be like, oh, these. I think they're different to white American people. And we didn't have any stereotypes, so I just thought they were New Yorkers. You know what I mean? I didn't think, like, oh, this is Jewish behavior, or this is a Jewish joke, or I just thought, these are New Yorkers. That's how New Yorkers talk. Until I came here. I realized, oh, it's its own thing.

[Terry Gross]

Your new comedy special was filmed in Honolulu.

[Ronny Chang]

Yes.

[Terry Gross]

Where Doogie Kamealoha. Yes. Thank you. This is like a Doogie Howser adjacent series. Yes.

[Ronny Chang]

It was a reboot.

[Terry Gross]

Yeah, Yeah, A reboot that you were in. And you're very popular there, or so you say.

[Ronny Chang]

Okay, yeah, sure.

[Terry Gross]

And you say you have a lot of MAGA friends there.

[Ronny Chang]

Yes.

[Terry Gross]

And on the Daily show, you spent a lot of time satirizing Trump.

[Ronny Chang]

Yes.

[Terry Gross]

So how do you get around arguing about politics with your MAGA friends?

[Ronny Chang]

That's a great question. I think, first of all, one, we might be in media silos, so the stuff I say on a Daily show might not actually ever reach my MAGA friends because we're all so siloed in our media consumption. That's one. And then two, I think that decent people have a sense of humor about things, you know? So I wouldn't take the comment section as reality in terms of what the reaction is to a clip in the comment section from MAGA people. About political clip. I don't necessarily think they would do react that way in real life face to face. And third of all, Hawaii is a very different vibe. You know, like Hawaii people know how to get along for the most part. I think in Hawaii, they know how to put community before themselves, which is very un American, by the way. That this idea that in Hawaii, everyone's very generous and you get more than you give in Hawaii if you come with the right energy. And so I like to think that in Hawaii, I always try to come with the right energy. I won't be so presumptuous to say that I always manage to nail it, but I think I come with the right energy and I think the locals and the Hawaiians there respond to that. So I, you know, they can be, you know, hardcore MAGA people, but they, you know, they're totally cool with me as far as I know.

[Terry Gross]

You say you love America. This is the country that puts showbiz above everything.

[Ronny Chang]

Oh, you were just quoting my special. Yeah, yeah.

[Terry Gross]

And then you get paid for saying f the president, and then money comes in and you say, if you did this in Malaysia, jail.

[Ronny Chang]

Yeah.

[Terry Gross]

But now Trump has an enemies list. He's threatening retribution and he's trying to revoke TV network broadcast license.

[Ronny Chang]

Yes.

[Terry Gross]

So how do you feel about insulting Trump now?

[Ronny Chang]

Those are all very concerning. Don't get me wrong. I think if he does any of that, it is upsetting and subverts the legal process in many ways. In some ways more blatant than others. My answer to that is we had four years of him, and the Daily show was making fun of him every day during those four years, and essentially nothing happened. So just going off of history and past evidence, which is all I kind of have to go by right now, is that kind of, you know, for me, that's kind of a sign of how it's going to be. You know, his bluster versus his actual actions. I reserve the right to change my opinion. If we all end up in jail, if we all end up in jail, then I'll probably be wrong. But maybe I'm just. This is just wishful thinking on my part. But, yeah, he said a lot of concerning things about the law, but I think ultimately I believe in American institutions. I believe in checks and balances. I believe that the entire founding of America was geared around having a weak federal executive who is unable to kind of use the government to go after citizens individually. I think that's the whole premise of America. And so because of that, I'm A bit more hopeful.

[Terry Gross]

Well, I hope. I hope you're right.

[Ronny Chang]

Yeah, I hope I'm right too, by the way. What do I know? I'm just a comic, just, you know, just making dick jokes. But that's what I hope, and that's why I believe and that's why I'm still here.

[Terry Gross]

Let's hear a clip from the Daily Show. And this is from the day after Kamala Harris conceded. So it's two days after election day, and you say Trump's promised a peaceful transfer of power, and then you say, let's hear it for the bare minimum of democracy. And here's the rest of the clip.

[Ronny Chang]

So I guess American democracy still works as long as the guy who likes overthrowing the government wins the election, because then he won't overthrow the government. So with the transfer happening, we're gonna be talking about Trump again every day for another four years, I guess. And I, for one, did not. I think that when I came out of the jungles of Malaysia to do comedy, that I would be making jokes about Donald Trump every day for 13 years straight. 13 years. I don't talk about anybody as much as I don't talk about my mom, as much as I talk about this guy. I don't talk about my wife as much as I talk about this guy. Yo, my wife thinks I'm having an emotional affair with him. I'm gonna be talking about this guy on my deathbed, okay. Which I assume will be in three years when he somehow brings back the bubonic plague. And you might be sitting at home saying, well, Ronnie, why don't you just shut the up about Trump? Well, for the same reason CNN doesn't shut the F up about him. Money. Lots and lots of money. So let's get these dollars right now and get back to Donald Trump.

[Terry Gross]

Okay? That's not really true about the money, I'm sure.

[Ronny Chang]

Yeah, partially. There's some truth to that.

[Terry Gross]

Okay, so you got on the Daily show after Trevor Noah became the anchor, and you knew him from performing at the same comedy festival in Melbourne, Australia, which is where you went to college. How surprised were you to get the call?

[Ronny Chang]

Extremely surprised, because we weren't necessarily friends. He was obviously, you know, much more successful than me in the festival circuit, so we rarely crossed paths. And I ended up performing with him for the first time in Canada at just four laughs in Montreal. And that's when he was very friendly to me at the show. He was very complimentary. He said, it's great. You know what you're Doing is great. And I said, oh, thanks so much. I didn't think too much about it, right? And then maybe two years later, I get this email to audition for the Daily show, and I was like, it was like a dream come true. I couldn't believe it, you know? And so I still remember doing the audition in my apartment in Melbourne and sending it in and then getting the call back to come to New York City and audition for the Daily show in New York City, which was obviously, you know, a huge deal if you're coming from Australia. And so I know I did not expect to get it at all. It was very much him who put the spotlight on me, as in, the Daily show would never have found me if not for Trevor insisting that I get on. And again, I'm not his closest friend. You know, I don't even think I'm his funniest friend. He just really was adamant that he wanted an Asian person on the show because he. He felt that Asian people are like half of the world's population, but there's no presence in. On the Daily Show. And he. I guess at that time he was thinking of a more international show. Right. So he wanted someone who could talk to these issues. So I'm just lucky that I was the recipient of his search. You know, it could have been anybody.

[Terry Gross]

How familiar were you with the show?

[Ronny Chang]

Very familiar. I've been following US Politics since the West Wing came out, was watching it religiously, and then started, you know, always reading about U.S. presidential history. I'm a U.S. president nerd. And the Daily show, we were watching. As soon as we were able to illegally download it in Australia, we would torrent like the Daily show and the Colbert Report and watch it. So I. Huge fan. I was watching all the time.

[Terry Gross]

What I read about when Trevor Noah resigned is that you had just done a bit and then without you knowing that Trevor Noah was resigning. Yes, he resigns on the air right after. Your Honor.

[Ronny Chang]

Yeah.

[Terry Gross]

Were you on camera at first moment? Yes. You were on camera?

[Ronny Chang]

Yes. There's a photo of me standing there, not knowing what to do. I was in the studio right next to him, but obviously off his camera. But there was a camera on me because I was doing a segment with him, as you said, and then we finished the segment, and then usually he says, okay, everybody. Roy Chang, everybody. And then everyone applauds and I leave. Leave the studio. But he didn't do that this time. He. Yeah, he just. He explained why he was leaving the show on air and no sign of it. There was no sign. I didn't know he was doing that.

[Terry Gross]

Why did he do it that way?

[Ronny Chang]

I don't know. He's a very smart guy, and I trust his judgment on everything. And I'm sure he had his reasons, you know, and I can't speak to them, but I'm sure he had his reasons to do it because it seems like a pretty extreme thing to do.

[Terry Gross]

Maybe he didn't want anybody to leak it.

[Ronny Chang]

Maybe he didn't want anyone to talk him out of it. I don't know. I don't know.

[Terry Gross]

Ah, that's a possibility, too.

[Ronny Chang]

Yeah. But, yeah, maybe he don't want anyone to leak it. That's also a possibility.

[Terry Gross]

Or, you know, what was the expression on your face like as you heard him resigning?

[Ronny Chang]

I was like, is this a bit? And then in my head, I was also like, well, we're not live. You know what I mean? Like, he could say that, and then we could just edit it if he changes his mind. So I was like, this sounds serious. I don't know what's going on. I'm a person who. I think I do a decent job at minding my own business. So I wasn't like, what's going on? I wasn't trying to, like, insert myself into this situation. You know what I mean? I was like, oh, man, what's going on? It sounds like he is going through some stuff, and so I hope he's okay. You know, that was my primary thought.

[Terry Gross]

You might have also been thinking, uh, oh, what happens to the Daily Show? What happens to my job?

[Ronny Chang]

You know, honestly, I wasn't thinking that because I was here because of Trevor. If I lose the job because of Trevor, I was okay with that. You know what I mean? I wasn't supposed to have this job anyway. So I've always adopted this very nihilistic view about the job in doing it. Not nihilistic. Like, I care about the job. I love. It's the best job in comedy. But I adopted this very, like, live in the present, I guess. Buddhist, you know, don't worry about the future kind of mentality with the job. And the second thing is also, I believe that America will always have a daily satirical news show. You know, I think of all the countries in the world, if America can't do a daily satirical news show, like, which country can we have the most freedom of speech, we have the most resources for show business. We have infrastructure for comedic talent where people can write and get better as performers and writers and can aspire to be hired on shows. Like this. And we have the craziest political news. Like if all those factors combine, if America cannot have a daily news satirical show, no one can.

[Terry Gross]

My guest is Ronnie Chang, a field correspondent on the Daily show and one of the anchors. He co stars in the new Hulu series Interior Chinatown. His new comedy special, love to Hate. It starts streaming on Netflix tomorrow December 17th. We'll be back after a short break. I'm Terry Gross and this is FRESH air.

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[Ronny Chang]

This is Eric Glass on this American Life. We like stories that surprise you. For instance, imagine finding a new hobby and realizing to do this hobby right according to the ways of the masters. There's a pretty good chance that you're going to have to bend the law to get the materials that you need.

[Terry Gross]

If not break it.

[Ronny Chang]

Yeah, to break international laws. Real life stories, really good ones. This American Life.

[Tonya Moseley]

Hi, it's Tonya Moseley. Before we get back to the show, the end of year is coming up and our FRESH AIR team is looking back at all the fantastic interviews and reviews we've been able to bring you in 2024 because of your support. We had so many delightful, introspective, sometimes emotional, sometimes funny, always deeply human conversations with St. Vincent, Al Pacino, Bridget Everett, Pharrell Williams, Jeremy Strong, Ina Garten and so many others. People you know well and hopefully new people you learned about. For the first time on our show. We're able to do this because of your support to your local station or by joining npr. NPR has grown a lot this year and we want to say thank you. An extra special thank you to those supporters, you know who you are and we see you. If you don't know what we're talking about. NPR is a great way to support independent public media. When you sign up for a simple reoccurring donation, you support our mission to create a more informed public and get special perks from more than 25 NPR podcasts, including sponsor free listening weekly bonus episodes from our FRESH AIR archives, and even exclusive and discounted items from the NPR Shop and NPR Wine Club. When you donate today, you join a community of supporters united in our curiosity about the world and respect for hearing out different perspectives. Join us on the plus side [e-mail] thanks.

[Terry Gross]

After Trevor Noah left, there was a roster of celebrity comics.

[Ronny Chang]

Yes.

[Terry Gross]

Who anchored the show. And then there was a hiatus, I guess over the summer, which we have.

[Ronny Chang]

All the time, by the way.

[Terry Gross]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, exactly. And then the correspondents started rotating who anchored the show. And I wasn't sure, like, is this a temporary thing? Have they decided against having one host or one celebrity comic hosting? And it's turned out so far to be the real thing with the correspondents hosting, you know, anchoring. Are you at liberty to say why the decision was made to have alternating correspondence anchor as opposed to one person or one famous comic?

[Ronny Chang]

I can talk about it. Yeah. But to be honest, I don't know the reasoning. Maybe it's just hard to find someone to do it. It's a tough job. I mean, I guess what I can say is I think the way it is right now, it makes sense because John wants to be on Jon Stewart.

[Terry Gross]

Who'S back on the show once a week.

[Ronny Chang]

The legendary Jon Stewart is on once a week. And the way he described it was we as a satirical news organization, we should be trying to cover the climate instead of just chasing the weather. Right. That's how we get an elevated show is if we can describe the climate, the political climate of America versus just chasing these individual news stories. And so what the current arrangement does is that it allows Jon Stewart to come in and talk about the climate once a week and give us the big ideas in America and then allows the rest of us correspondence to do a bit more weather chasing. Which as much as we're trying to avoid that, unfortunately it's necessary weather chasing sometimes because ultimately our job is to make fun of the news. And the news happens every single day. Not that we have to avoid discussing the climate, but we can also it freezes up to kind of chase the weather a bit and nobody gets burnt out. So as long as the quality doesn't drop, I mean, you know, this might be the way to do it.

[Terry Gross]

You've been in film, so you're now the co star of the series Interior Chinatown. And it's a cliche that the Asian guy is the best friend.

[Ronny Chang]

Yes.

[Terry Gross]

But in a film where the main character is Asian and much of the story is set in Chinatown. You're the best friend of the other Asian guy.

[Ronny Chang]

Yes, yes. But that's the beauty of the show, is that we're actually making fun of these stereotypes of these tropes.

[Terry Gross]

It's kind of a theme of the series that the main character feels just kind of invisible, and he wants to. He wants to be the star of his own life. So I want to play a clip from interior Chinatown, and you and Jimmy Oyang, the main character in the series, you're both working at a restaurant in Chinatown and don't really like the job. You're just doing it.

[Ronny Chang]

Maybe I should set up also that we are working in a restaurant in Chinatown, but we are also characters in a TV show who don't realize that we're in a TV show. So we are, on the surface, working at this restaurant, but we are working at a restaurant in the context of being on a Law and Order type show. So that's the meta aspect of it.

[Terry Gross]

It's very meta.

[Ronny Chang]

Yes. Yes.

[Terry Gross]

So in this scene from the first episode, you're both in the alleyway where the dumpster is.

[Ronny Chang]

Yeah.

[Terry Gross]

And you're both talking, and the Jimmy O. Yang character is talking about how he's like a minor character in his own life and invisible in the world, and he wants to be the main character. He wants to be the star of something. He wants to be. He wants to solve a murder mystery like they do on tv. So this is the conversation between Hume and Jimmy O. Yang. He speaks first.

[Ronny Chang]

I'm not saying I want someone to die. So what are you saying? Well, I'm saying if someone's already dead, I would like to be the person who'll find the body. That's weird, man. Okay, you know how in cop shows, there's usually a cold open? Cold open? The first scene before the main titles. Right. Okay. So for a couple of minutes, you follow this random character who you've never met, who's not one of the leads, and part of you is thinking, why am I even watching this guy? Why are you watching this guy? You're watching because either he's about to get killed or you've seriously never seen a cop show. How is that even possible? Video games and weed. Okay, what was I saying? Somebody's about to find a dead body. Yes. That's the rule. The person in the first scene of a procedural is either a victim or a witness. Holy. Somebody threw away an entire Peking duck. With the sauce and everything. You're Man, I'm the. You are the one who's hoping it was a dead person.

[Terry Gross]

Mm. Okay. That was my guest, Ronny Chang with Jimmy O. Yang in a scene from interior Chinatown. In the film Crazy Rich Asians, you have a real standout scene. You're kind of a minor character in it.

[Ronny Chang]

That's very complimentary of you.

[Terry Gross]

Yeah, but it's a great scene. Does it feel qualitatively different to be in a film with an Asian themed story and largely Asian cast?

[Ronny Chang]

Yeah, that's a good question. Crazy Rich Asians was my first movie, so I had nothing to compare it with. But I will say on set, you could feel this really cool camaraderie and chemistry. We all had this shorthand. We were all Asian actors in our 30s, and we were all in this movie for the first time. This underdog movie, which when we were making, there was no indication it would have been as successful as it was. I think that's fair to say, as in it was still yet to be seen, was not a sure thing. Lots of risks were taken by the directors and producers, which we're all eternally grateful for that it paid off. But we were all in this thing in Malaysia and Singapore, and so we were just hanging out. You know, we would go for karaoke, we would go for Korean barbecue. We didn't need to explain why we were going for Korean barbecue. It wasn't ethnic eating. It was just food. And then we. When we get to Korean barbecue, we don't have to explain what was being served. We all got it. So stuff like that, you know, there was like a shorthand and camaraderie which exists till today.

[Terry Gross]

So correct me if I'm wrong, you're third generation Malaysian.

[Ronny Chang]

Yeah. Chinese. Malaysian.

[Terry Gross]

Chinese. Malaysian. Yeah. So what I read is that your parents moved to the US when you were three. You stayed with family in Malaysia or Singapore, and then you moved a year later when you were 4.

[Ronny Chang]

So they came when I was 1.

[Terry Gross]

Oh, okay.

[Ronny Chang]

So then I only came here when I was 3, and then I left when I was 7. Yeah. So basically they. They came to America and they left me in Malaysia for like a year and a half or something. And then when I was around three years old, then they brought me over, so they were with my sister without me. So they were probably here for like two years, I guess.

[Terry Gross]

Did you recognize your parents?

[Ronny Chang]

You know, I think they tell me that when I saw them at the airport, I walked away because I was so pissed, but I don't. I don't remember Being, you know, holding it against them.

[Terry Gross]

Right.

[Ronny Chang]

First of all, they were putting themselves through college. So, you know, imagine having to support two kids and themselves and college. So they were working on going to college at the same time. And then second of all, it was like, yeah, it was too young. You know, it's like a baby. Like, we don't like that. It's before the Internet. Who knows what's happening in Manchester, New Hampshire? They just didn't want to risk it, so it was easier. Just take my sister.

[Terry Gross]

So what was it like when they decided to move back to Malaysia?

[Ronny Chang]

Oh, great question. So when they moved back, they didn't tell me we were moving back. They said, we're just going for a vacation. So I was like, oh, okay, so we'll go and see Malaysia and we'll come back. And then we went back to Malaysia and we never went back to America. And I was like, what happened? Like, why did you guys lie to me? And so I had a chip on my shoulder for like years of being in Singapore. Malaysia. And you know what? Maybe they changed. Nah, I was gonna give them the benefit of the doubt. I was gonna say maybe they went there and changed their mind, but I'm pretty sure they went there knowing they were gonna go back. But no, in hindsight, I think they made the right decision for them because when they went back to Malaysia, they had more social capital because they had US Education and they were culturally more suited to Malaysia and Singapore. So when they went back, I think they made the right choice for them, you know.

[Terry Gross]

What did they end up doing?

[Ronny Chang]

Oh, they became like corporate executives. My mom became like a financial controller. My dad became like a general manager of factories in China. And then he would, you know, he would commute between China and Singapore and Malaysia. But my point is that I don't know if they would have been happy in America, because in America, we were in. I was very happy, but I was like a four year old kid and they were working at a gas station. So I don't begrudge them at all. I wish they had told the truth that we were moving back for good. But I think they made the right choice ultimately. So, yeah, and I was lucky. I got to. I appreciate being from Malaysia and seeing Singapore and seeing Australia and then coming to America and having a bit more perspective on things, you know, I truly think it feels like a superpower sometimes.

[Terry Gross]

My guest is comic and actor Ronny Chang. His new comedy special, Love to Hate. It starts streaming on Netflix tomorrow. We'll be back after a short break. This is FRESH air.

[Ronny Chang]

Ho, ho, ho.

[Terry Gross]

Santa here coming to you from the North Pole, where the elves in our podcast division have just completed work on this season's best gift for public radio lovers, npr.

[Ronny Chang]

Plus, give the gift of sponsored free.

[Terry Gross]

Listening and even bonus episodes from your favorite NPR podcasts, all while supporting public media.

[Ronny Chang]

Learn more at plus.npr.org.

[Tonya Moseley]

Breakup stories are going super viral online.

[Ronny Chang]

Normalize posting why you broke up on the Internet. I cannot believe I'm about to tell this breakup story and expose myself like this on It's Been a Minute.

[Tonya Moseley]

We're asking the big questions about dating. Like what's the line between a juicy.

[Ronny Chang]

Story and an invasion of privacy?

[Tonya Moseley]

To find out, listen now to the It's Been a Minute podcast from npr. Evergreen trees are Pacific Northwest icons in journalism. An evergreen story isn't tied to one news cycle. It goes deep and helps you understand the world.

[Ronny Chang]

The Evergreen is also a podcast from.

[Tonya Moseley]

OPB about the Northwest.

[Terry Gross]

I'm Jen Chavez.

[Tonya Moseley]

Listen to the Evergreen podcast from OPB.

[Ronny Chang]

Every Monday, part of the NPR Network.

[Terry Gross]

What was it like for you getting started in comedy in the US Being an immigrant and being of Chinese Malaysian descent?

[Ronny Chang]

I mean, I didn't start comedy here. I started doing stand up comedy in Australia. So when I came here, I was already six years into comedy. If you're asking me what it's like to start again in America, it was like a dream because I always wanted to do comedy in New York City. It's the best city in the world to do comedy. You can do five, six, eight shows a night here. The best comics are here. So you're competing against them. So if you have to follow them, you have to be good. But I mean, I've told this story many times, but one of the best advice I got was from Mr. John Oliver, who when I first joined the Daily Show, I met up with him because the Daily show has a very strong alumni, truly the Harvard Business School of Comedy. And I asked him for advice on how to be a correspondent in America, being a non American correspondent on the Daily show, which is something that he's uniquely placed to give me advice on. And he told me that it took him two years to relearn how to do comedy in America. And he was spot on. He was spot on. And he was, you know, he was saying like, well, I, I mean, this is my interpretation of what he was saying is that when you come to America as a foreign headliner comic, you can do comedy for 5 minutes, 10 minutes, 15 minutes, you can kill for you could maybe even kill for 30 minutes. But you're always doing comedy as, like, the outsider, you know, meaning, like, you're coming in, you're making fun of America on a very surface level. And that works for about nine months. But after nine months or like 11 months, I think the audience and you yourself subconsciously can feel the inauthenticity of that in the sense of, like, you've been here long enough. You should know that this isn't that weird. Why are you still making fun of five flavors of Coca Cola? You know, like, you should know better now. You've been here long enough. And so the point was that it took two years to really kind of get a little bit more understanding of America, where you could joke about it in a way that, one, Americans haven't heard before and two, in a way that they agree with you in the authenticity.

[Terry Gross]

So earlier you said that you didn't tell your parents when you were on the Daily show, and they didn't know what the Daily show was because they'd never seen it. It's not big in Malaysia. Did they start watching it after you felt like you were doing a decent job and they could watch it?

[Ronny Chang]

Yes. Like, literally the day after I spoke to him and I told him I was on the Daily show, he, you know, he googled everything about it, and he was like, hey, you know, Jon Stewart is a big deal in America. I'm like, yeah, Dad, I know he was. That's what I was trying to tell you. And he was like, yeah, he makes a lot of money, man. These guys making a lot. This guy's a multi million dollar contract. I'm like, yeah, yeah, comedy is a big business in America. And then he. Yeah, then he started following it more. But they've always been into American politics, you know, from afar.

[Terry Gross]

Apparently. Your father was very funny and prided himself on that.

[Ronny Chang]

Yes.

[Terry Gross]

What kind of sense of humor did he have? Did he tell jokes or stories?

[Ronny Chang]

Yeah, he would. Only in hindsight now, you know, he passed away in 2018. And I talk about this in the. In the special. It's actually the last story I tell in the special. And only in hindsight do I realize, like, oh, yeah, he was. He would hold court at family gatherings and he would joke about politics, and he would, like, roast the, you know, the decisions by leaders or people around him. Family members. He would make fun of family members. So it was a very, I would say a very modern style of comedy that he was doing. But obviously he didn't know he was Doing comedy. He was just being the life of the party. And he was, you know, usually the most educated guy in the room. Usually, you know, so he would be making fun of current affairs, current events, people, family members. He would, you know, he just roast them. Yeah, that's how he would do it.

[Terry Gross]

You seem to have such an interesting perspective on the world and on comedy. Cause you've lived and grown up in so many different countries.

[Ronny Chang]

Sure.

[Terry Gross]

And traveled the world doing comedy, too. How helpful is that to you as a person and as a comic?

[Ronny Chang]

I can't deny that having perspective helps a little bit because I have something to compare America to. So I know what's extreme idea or what's not, you know, compared to other countries. I also know what America does better than other countries. So I guess that lets me talk about it a little bit more in depth. I don't know. I think a lot of what I learned about comedy, I'm very lucky that I moved to New York City when I was 30 years old, nine years ago, because I think being here in this environment made me a better comic. I don't think comedy is the greatest art form on the planet and whatever, but I think it's a good art form. And one of the good things about it is that we talk to live human beings every day. So you get a sense of where the cultural zeitgeist is. I think a lot better than anyone else, you know, so not just being able to live in different countries. I went to law school. You know, I have a degree in finance as well. So I think I've gotten to see a lot of different worlds. I've seen the corporate world. I've seen the crazy comedian live performing world. I've seen the left wing world. You know, I'm in Singapore. I see the conservative world, the Chinese world and Australian. So I've seen enough different kinds of subcultures to, I guess, be able to compare stuff.

[Terry Gross]

Ronnie Chang, thank you so much for coming on our show. It's been a pleasure.

[Ronny Chang]

Thank you so much for having me. This is a real honor to be on the show and to speak to you. Thank you so much.

[Terry Gross]

Ronny Chang's new Netflix comedy special, Love to Hate. It starts streaming tomorrow, December 17th. This is fresh air on the Embedded podcast from NPR. What is it like to live under years of state surveillance?

[Ronny Chang]

So many people have fear, fear of losing their families.

[Tonya Moseley]

For years, the Chinese government has been.

[Terry Gross]

Detaining hundreds of thousands of ethnic Uyghurs.

[Tonya Moseley]

This is the story of one family torn apart.

[Terry Gross]

Listen to the Black Gate on the Embedded podcast from npr.

[Ronny Chang]

What's good, y'all? It's Gene Demby from Code Switch. And on Code Switch, we are deeply curious about race and identity and the way it shows up in the news headlines or in our personal lives. With the wide range of voices in front of and behind the mic, we see how race shows up all over the place. So come rock with us on the Code Switch podcast only from NPR.

[Tonya Moseley]

Every weekday, NPR's best political reporters come to you on the NPR Politics Podcast to explain the big news coming out of Washington, the campaign trail and beyond. We don't just want to tell you what happened. We tell you why it matters. Join the NPR Politics Podcast every single afternoon to understand the world through political eyes.

[Terry Gross]

Rock critic Ken Tucker has been listening back to the pop music made in 2024 and sees a pattern of women hit makers who prize both aggression and vulnerability in various proportions. In songs by Charlie xcx, Sabrina Carpenter, Chapel Roan and others, Ken has found the soundtrack to the past year's tumultuous times.

[Ken Tucker]

I can see you don't fall far from the tree Cause I've been looking at you so long Now I only see me I want to throw the apple into the sky Feels like you never understand me so I just want to try to be a boy, be a boy, be a boy, be a.

[Billie Eilish]

The year in pop music 2024 pivoted around a trio of women hitmakers whose various successes hinged upon assertions of creative ambition and admissions of romantic weakness. Foremost among them is the British songwriter Charlie xcx. Her album Brat sought to redefine brattiness less as irritating behavior than as an insistence that petulance can be justified, frustration and anger that you don't get to define her feelings. Charlie's collaborations with other women on the remix version of the album, including Billie Eilish and Ariana Grande, suggested a growing army of artists ready to take up her cause.

[Ken Tucker]

I went my own way and I made it I'm your favorite reference baby call me debris you're so inside tectonic most of income shockular defibrillators no style, can't relate, always be the one drop down, yeah became a flash on so stylish baby tears are gone.

[Billie Eilish]

Keeping things light, while also serving as an example of ferocious willfulness was Sabrina Carpenter, whose album title, Short and Sweet, referred both to Carpenter herself and the concise, clever hits she makes. Listening to her cooing vocals and seeing her wiggly videos, I had to reach way back to Mae west to come up with a comparable example of a woman who wraps her steely command in such a deceptively saucy tone.

[Ken Tucker]

I have a fun idea, babe, maybe just stay inside I know you're craving some fresh air but the ceiling fan is so nice and we could live so happily if no one knows that you're with me I'm just kidding but really, really, really please, please don't prove all right please, please, please don't bring me to tears when I just did my makeup Heartbreak is wiping my eagles and angles I beg you, don't embarrass me little sucker.

[Billie Eilish]

Please, please, please that's please, please, please. Carpenter's pleading, not pleading warning to a boyfriend that he's got to treat her right the third member of my 2024 power grouping is Chapel Roanoke. Her mixture of singer, songwriter details, dance pop grooves and lovely ballads really caught on as the admiration of her peers increased. She was an opening act on Olivia Rodrigo's tour and is a guest on Sabrina Carpenter's Netflix Christmas special. No wonder she proclaimed I'm your favorite artist's favorite artist. One of her catchiest songs is the emotionally complex Good Luck, Babe, in which Rhone encourages a straight woman who seems to have a crush on her to feel free to express her desires more openly.

[Ken Tucker]

It's fine, it's cool you can say that we are nothing but you know the truth and guess I the fool with her arms out like an angel through the Gaussian realm I don't want to call it off but you don't want to call it love you only want to be the one that I call baby boys and boys just the way you are making no excuse me.

[Billie Eilish]

If you're thinking I've forgotten a certain woman, one around whom so much of not just the music industry but the culture industry revolves. Well, I did enjoy a lot of Taylor Swift's album, the tortured Poets Department. But I'd be lying if I didn't say I enjoyed a book about her even more. Rob Sheffield's Heartbreak is the National Anthem How Taylor Swift Reinvented Pop Music. It's the year's best critical appraisal of pop stardom, disguised as a fan's ecstatic notes. Finally, I want to remind you of a woman who is not a hit maker, whose 2024 work was among the year's finest. Arriving in an election year, Carsey Blanton's glowingly political collection after the Revolution tried to imagine a better world after a period of upheaval and chaos.

[Ken Tucker]

Buying something in a bag Walking through the war to the corner store. Everyone's poor and serve so I picked a fight. Later on that night I was sick of feeling shame and I know it all could be your fault But I need someone to blame. After the revolution we have a better life, you'll be better high street, happy birthday, we'll always be safe.

[Billie Eilish]

Where the other artists I played locate their feminism in dance pop, Carsey Blanton mixes folk and rock distinctively, and her version of sexual politics is broad enough to encompass a class critique as well. While Blanton is singing from the sidelines of superstardom, some stars might do well to listen to her for an example of how to make good music that also refers to subjects other than self care. Nothing wrong with expanding your already huge base by being even more ambitious in the new year.

[Terry Gross]

Ken tucker is FRESH AIR's rock criticism. Tomorrow on Fresh Air, my guests will be Billie Eilish and Phineas O'Connell, the internationally famous brother and sister songwriting and music making duo. We'll talk about what it was like to be homeschooled, become famous in their teens, and how their lives and music have changed as adults. They have a new album. I hope you'll join us. Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Anne Marie Boldonato, Sam Brugger, Lauren Krenzel, Teresa Madden, Monique Nazareth, Thea Challoner, Susan Yakundi and Anna Bauman. Our digital media producer is Molly Sivi Nesper. Roberto Shorok directs the show. Our co host is Tonya Moseley. I'm Terry Gross. Tis the season for rich meals, twinkly.

[Ronny Chang]

Lights and New Year's resolutions at Life Kit, NPR's self help podcast. We're here to help you make those resolutions less of a December and January thing and more like a year long affair. We've got shows that'll help you draw.

[Terry Gross]

Up plans to meet your goals, whatever they are.

[Ronny Chang]

Get the tools you need all year round with the Life Kit podcast from npr. Hey, it's Peter Sagal, the host of Wait Wait, don't tell me Now. If you like Wait Wait. And you're looking for another podcast where the hosts take self deprecating jabs at themselves and invite important guests on who have no business being there. Then you should check out NPR's how to Do Everything. It's hosted by two of the minds behind Wait Wait, who literally sometimes put words in my mouth. Find the how to Do Everything podcast wherever you are currently listening to me go on about it.