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- [00:00]
Capella University
This message comes from Capella University. At Capella, you can earn your degree with support from people who care about your success. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University. Learn more@capella.edu.
- [00:15]
Tonya Moseley
This is FRESH AIR. I'm Tonya Moseley, and my guest today is comedian Atsuko Okotsuka. Her origin story might sound like the setup for drama. She grew up undocumented, was raised by her grandmother who, she jokes, kidnapped her and brought her to the States as they both both dealt with the instability of watching her mother suffer from schizophrenia. But Asuko has made a career by turning that story on its head, mining it for sharp, hilarious observations about mental illness, identity and navigating adulthood with few life skills. Here she is in her first comedy special, the Intruder, where she reflected on the unconventional family dynamic that shaped her.
- [00:58]
Atsuko Okatsuka
I've never heard try to look different. No, it was always blend in, Atsuko. Blend in. Keep your head down and blend in as much as possible. At least that's what my family would tell me. And then they named me Atsuko Okatsuka. And then they went on to choose English names for themselves. I know. Thanks, mom or Linda. That's betrayal, Uncle Paul.
- [01:27]
Tonya Moseley
In her new special on Hulu called Father, Atsuko goes even further, reflecting on her relationship with her father in Japan, who was largely a distant figure in her life after she moved to the states in 2022, Atsuko became the second Asian American woman after Margaret Cho to release an hour long comedy special on HBO with the Intruder. And she became a social media darling a few years ago thanks to her viral videos and dance challenges like the one where she walked around LA with her grandm dancing to Beyonce. Atsuko Akatsuka, welcome to FRESH air.
- [02:03]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Oh my gosh, Tanya, it is a pleasure. It's an honor. This is too good to be true.
- [02:09]
Tonya Moseley
Well, it's a pleasure to be sitting in front of you, Atsuko. And I have to ask you about your name and the spelling. So there's a U in both your first name and your last name, but the U is silent.
- [02:21]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yeah.
- [02:21]
Tonya Moseley
What's your relationship to the letter U? Because you're always probably correcting people like it's silent.
- [02:27]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Right? Right. It's there to trip you because. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's a Japanese name. So in Japan, it's not like we're walking around being like, the U is silent, there is no U.
- [02:38]
Tonya Moseley
Right.
- [02:39]
Atsuko Okatsuka
It's just when I saw it spelled out in English when I moved here I said, really? That's interesting. I guess we'll keep it that way. And then that will be sort of my lifelong story of having to help people figure out how to say it. Yeah.
- [02:53]
Tonya Moseley
So it's interesting. So when it's written in Japanese, the translation added the U to it.
- [02:59]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Language is wild, Right. You know what? There's a few more words like this. Various. Like foods. For example, like tempura in English is spelled T, E, m. Yes. P, U, R, A.
- [03:10]
Tonya Moseley
Right.
- [03:11]
Atsuko Okatsuka
In Japanese, it's 10 t, e, n pura, tempura. There's no M. Right. Where did that M come from? No idea.
- [03:19]
Tonya Moseley
We just added it.
- [03:20]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yeah. You know what it's done for me as a Japanese immigrant coming to America, when I try to order my own people's food from Japanese people here, they don't understand what I'm trying to order. Does that make sense? Because I'm trying to do it the correct way from Japan. They're like, it's tempura. Yeah.
- [03:39]
Tonya Moseley
Well, your story is incredible. As you mentioned, you immigrated here from Japan. You were born into a Japanese Taiwanese family, spent your early childhood in Japan, moved here to the United States when you were 8 years old, your grandmother basically kidnapped you. And you joke about this, but it sounds pretty traumatic.
- [04:00]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yeah. But you know what I found about trauma is while you're going through it, you're not going, this is trauma. This is trauma. This is not good. Right. I didn't have time to feel that. I'm realizing. Yeah. And so in a strange way, as I, like, processed it over the years, I guess, you know, whether it was, like, depression that I was hitting or. Right. Sadness that I was feeling, I didn't know that was maybe the trauma that I was, like, processing. And then now that it's been really a longer time and I'm able to joke about it, I've sort of started to heal without even realizing it. Does that make sense?
- [04:41]
Tonya Moseley
Well, it does, because so much of your comedy, it feels like you're working it out on stage. I also want to know, though, about those first years when you arrived here, because the three of you, your mother, your grandmother and you, you arrived and you were staying in your uncle's gar. Garage. Was it a real garage? Like, describe this garage.
- [05:02]
Atsuko Okatsuka
So it was a garage that he then extended for us so that there would be a bedroom attached and then a toilet, shower, and then a kitchen unit in where the cars were originally would go. Yeah, I don't think that built that. That was legal for him to do to deck it out like that. But it happened to be that the garage was like behind this sort of like gate that you open to go to the backyard. It was kind of hidden away from, you know, the streets.
- [05:34]
Tonya Moseley
You joke when people ask you, like, what's wrong with you? You say, well, I was raised by a 50 year old woman when that's your only friend. You have talked about this quite a bit on stage in this American Life. There's a beautiful episode where you even joke about like, you know, your life is traumatic when Ira Glass calls you.
- [05:53]
Atsuko Okatsuka
And says, oh, yeah, yeah, that it's not good.
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Tonya Moseley
But what did your grandmother tell you about the choice to bring you all? And really, you spent your childhood in that garage?
- [06:05]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Mm, yeah. So my grandma and I hadn't really talked about it in depth until kind.
- [06:12]
Tonya Moseley
Of Ira Glass, which was just 20, 23.
- [06:16]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just two years ago. I mean, this whole time I just needed someone to be like, do you want to do it for radio? And I'm like, yes, yes, yes. Now I would like to uncover what's going on. Or else, you know, I'm fine with just not knowing, you know, the truth hurts. Right. And so I want to do it not alone. And it helped that I got to do it with Ira and the thousands and thousands of thousands of listeners. Yes, right. At the same time, then I'm really not alone.
- [06:43]
Tonya Moseley
It wasn't funny though, you know, I mean, you told it in a very matter of fact way, in a very moving way, as well as someone who is always used to bringing in that little bit of humor into it. What was that like for you to share that story in that way?
- [06:59]
Atsuko Okatsuka
I always say there's like a kind of aura of sadness around me, you know, because the truth is, my mom, as we're speaking is, I can picture her right now. She's sitting upstairs in the house that my uncle owns, my other uncle, and she is laying in bed and she hasn't left that house in a long, long time. She, you know, doesn't have any friends, she is severely depressed. And all my life my mom has suff and I. I think about that all the time as I get to do things like tour and travel, see the world, come to here, the west side even. You know, as I go out drinking with friends, my mom can't do any of those things. She's suffering so much. Right. And so I have the ability to tap into, I guess, being present and real, especially when dealing with heavy topics, you know, when I'm trying to protect an audience, when I'm trying to protect other people, which is why I became a performer. I love people and I love the arts because of that. Yes, I'm gonna do it with humor. People pay tickets to come see me. I'm not gonna just tell you sad stories. I'm gonna make sure you laugh so you can forget your problems. Right.
- [08:17]
Tonya Moseley
It's so interesting you use the word protect as a way to entertain.
- [08:22]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yeah, yeah, I think that's what it is. I mean, for me, for me as a performer, that's what I want people to have, is to feel seen by the end of my shows, but also that they got to have a good time because then they're going back to their regular life. And I don't know what that's like.
- [08:43]
Tonya Moseley
What's interesting is your mother was not diagnosed with schizophrenia you share. Until she was much older. She was in her 30s. So growing up, when did you become aware that she was suffering and that maybe she wasn't like other mothers?
- [09:02]
Atsuko Okatsuka
I think that I was always in denial a little bit. I still am. I still think that. I think this of everyone that is going through mental illness, because I think it is true. I truly believe it. That, like, however much, you know, there is chemical imbalances going on underneath. That is the real you that loves dancing. If you're my mom, My mom was a ballerina when she was young or loved to put on plays with her neighborhood friends, you know, when she lived in a small village in Taiwan. You know, whatever your story is, whatever you're into as a person, before bipolar or depression or whatever that you have come across, you know, I truly believe that about each person I knew before I even moved to America, in Japan, all of my classmates, their parents were still together. So I did notice, you know, at, like, school plays or parental meetings, it was always both parents present for all the other kids. When I would go have play dates at their house, too. It was both parents there on the weekends and stuff.
- [10:16]
Tonya Moseley
And so was it your grandmother who would take you to those things?
- [10:19]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Right. So it would be my grandma. Yeah. And, you know, sometimes it would be like whispers, like, who is she bringing this time? Is her grandma? Is her mom going to show up? What's her mom look like? We don't even know. Does she have a dad?
- [10:31]
Tonya Moseley
What would you tell people when they'd ask you about your mom?
- [10:34]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Well, I remember one time telling my second grade teacher, because she. She knew that my mom was sick. That was the word I would use. My grandma told me she was sick, and I knew Something was off. So I was like, oh, she's sick with something. And you know, my mom also has seizures. So that was the part that she understood. She was like, oh, wow, she. She has seizures and then she'll just fall. Yeah, okay, that's. That's intense. Yeah. I could see why it's hard for her to physically be at the school or get places. You know, I didn't know how to quite describe her mental state yet because, you know, I was a kid. A kid, yeah.
- [11:16]
Tonya Moseley
What was revealed in that this American Life piece and what you've gone on to reveal is that your grandmother really just wanted to have you. She wanted to protect you, but she knew that maybe circumstances weren't the best in Japan. And she knew you, along with your mother, maybe wouldn't have been the best, so she brought you here. But I found this really fascinating, this relationship that you all have, because it's such a deep, profound relationship. You did this wonderful documentary when you were in college where you documented sort of a day in the life of you and your mom and your grandmother. And you called them Laurel and Hardy. And there was sort of a humor there just in watching them do day to day activities. Yeah, but that was like a twosome. But in reality, your childhood was a trio. What was your role in that? That sort of trifecta?
- [12:08]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Well, you know, I felt like I was super an observer. That's kind of. I didn't really think about it till now when you brought up, you know, me documenting them. Right. So that was in art school where I was, you know, playing with documentary filmmaking, which meant that I was behind the camera when I was filming them. So, you know, being behind the camera, I realized, oh, I was kind of going back to, I guess my childhood where I was observing a lot. I was observing my mom, my grandma. So I didn't know how to fit into the picture of the trio quite yet because, you know, it seemed unstable. I was like, do I go in this trio? Do I want to be a part of this trio? When I was 17, I started dating someone for the first time in my life and I took off with him, you know, to go live with him. And so I was like, I'm out of here. Here's my new family, this boy. And so it's not until more now that I really know that I love this trio. And I've always been a part of this. Three generation. Peas in a pod.
- [13:17]
Tonya Moseley
Yes. Yeah, I was thinking about that, your mother's diagnosis and what it was like growing up with her. But she was diagnosed with schizophrenia in her mid-30s. Was that a relief to know a name for what you had been experiencing throughout your childhood? Did that offer anything to you by the time that happened?
- [13:43]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Oh, it did not. Because I. I think I didn't super look into it on my own. I was afraid for more, probably. Truth. Yeah.
- [13:56]
Tonya Moseley
What do you mean by that?
- [13:58]
Atsuko Okatsuka
So I used to go to church when I first got to the States, and my uncle, who we were staying with, and his wife, you know, my aunt and uncle were going to church.
- [14:09]
Tonya Moseley
What kind of church?
- [14:10]
Atsuko Okatsuka
It was a Chinese Baptist church. And that's how you end up going there. Right. Is like, if you're an immigrant, it's very easy for them to be like, well, you need friends. Right. And you like free food. I was like, yes, yes. Do we do outings? Sometimes we go, you know, play basketball at the park. I like that. So, yeah, I ended up there. And, you know, because of that. And then I became super Christian. Right. Like, on my own, I think, you know. Right. I needed something to believe in or something. It was community, all these things. And I was still confused about why we didn't go back to Japan.
- [14:46]
Tonya Moseley
Yes.
- [14:46]
Atsuko Okatsuka
And my mom's condition and in that garage. So I took it very seriously, to the point I even, like, signed up for Jesus camp on my own. Usually, you know, churches sign up together. Like the youth group will sign up together. One year, nobody from my church signed up, but I was like, I'm going to do it on my own because that's how much of a believer I am. What an insane thing. I had no group representing me. It was just me on my own. And so I went. And I remember at the camp, there were, like, these prayer groups and prayer meetings. We would break in often, too. And one night it was like, me and, like, 30 people in a prayer group, and I asked for them to pray for my mom, pray for my mom to get better, to, you know, to be freed from the voices in her head and all these things. From the suffering from severe depression, from the seizures, from feeling so isolated and down all the time. And then I remember, like, when the. When 30 people are praying for you out loud and you're like, in the Big Bear, it's almost like a vacation. Right. We were outdoors overlooking, like, forests and mountains. It was so beautiful. I truly thought that it was going to work. When I go home, she's going to be healed.
- [16:04]
Tonya Moseley
So by the time your. Your mother got that diagnosis, where were you in that realm was. Had she already gotten the diagnosis? Or did that come later?
- [16:14]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Well, at the time, I'm trying to remember, when I found out that she. It was. You know, I remember seeing the word schizophrenia because I asked my grandma to write out what it is that the doctor said she has. My uncle, who is OBGYN in Taiwan, is the one that helped figure it out. And my grandma wrote out the word. I think. I think that was after this Jesus camp incident, because when I came home, I was super disappointed that she had not changed. Right. And feeling really down and hopeless. So I think by the time I saw that word schizophrenia on a napkin, that that's what my mom had. I was like, would it even help to even figure out what that is? Because, like, the prayers didn't help? Like, what. What. What would help? Because till this day, you know, she.
- [17:09]
Tonya Moseley
Still hears voices, even with medication.
- [17:13]
Atsuko Okatsuka
I mean. Yeah, we had to choose. Do we treat the seizures more or the voices more? Because those two kinds of medications cancel each other out. So we decided to treat the seizures more because that's more, you know, immediately fatal and scarier, just because it's physical.
- [17:33]
Tonya Moseley
What a choice to have to make. Did you ever try to make your mom laugh growing up?
- [17:39]
Atsuko Okatsuka
I did, yeah. But for a big chunk of my life, I was very scared of her, so I would try to avoid her sometimes. I would entertain her.
- [17:50]
Tonya Moseley
What did that look like?
- [17:52]
Atsuko Okatsuka
So we would. I would take, like, toys that I had in the house. I would give her one, and I would have the other one. And we would sort of play out scenarios where maybe we're battling bad people that are coming to us. You know, get them over here. To the left, to the right. Mom behind us. They're. We're surrounded. I don't know. We're always surrounded by evil spirits. I don't know. And so I would fight it off with her, and, you know, that was one way we could hang out, was pretending there were other things going on instead of just us, you know, sitting down for a chat or whatever.
- [18:30]
Tonya Moseley
You found out while dating your husband, was it very early on that his mother also has schizophrenia?
- [18:36]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yes.
- [18:37]
Tonya Moseley
I can imagine there are things that you all just don't even have to say to each other that you sort of just know implicitly through your actions, through your decisions and things like that. When did that become clear to you that not only do we both share in this same experience of having a mother, but there are things that now I see in you and you see in me that maybe. Maybe you hadn't seen in anyone else before.
- [19:01]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yeah, that's Very true. You know, I saw glimpses of it very early on. Right. We both love to entertain. We both love to make other people laugh. He's very funny, my husband. And he's a natural caretaker too. For example, he tours with me. He makes sure that I don't feel left out by making sure other people can pronounce my name. Things like that that he'll do for me on the road. Yeah. And then, you know, on one of our earlier dates, we were having drinks outside. It was like a bar with a patio outside. And there was an unhoused man who was talking to himself and kind of scaring the people at the bar. And I knew what was going on with him, you know, and my husband. I think it was our second date. I should have known because it wasn't until like a third date that we found out we had this in common. But he knew how to deal with it too. He was also a manager at a coffee shop. So, you know, people were kind of scared of this man kind of stumbling and is he gonna walk into this establishment, whatever. My husband knew to like, look at him calmly and sort of talk him, you know, out of like being in that area. But, you know, very kindly because we know that's schizophrenia that's going on.
- [20:22]
Capella University
This message comes from Capella University. At Capella you can earn your degree with support from people who care about your success. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University. Learn more at capella. Edu this message comes from Schwab. At Schwab, how you invest is your choice, not theirs. That's why when it comes to managing your wealth, Schwab gives you more choices. You can invest and trade on your own. Plus get advice and more comprehensive wealth solutions to help meet your unique needs. With award winning service, low costs and transparent advice, you can manage your wealth your way at Schwab. Visit schwab.com to learn more. This message comes from Capital One. With the Capital One Saver card, earn unlimited 3% cash back on dining and entertainment. Capital One what's in your wallet?
- [21:15]
Terry Gross
Terms apply details@capital1.com this message comes from Dell Technologies. The power of Dell AI within tel inside is transforming the world of pro sports. Using real time analysis to help give teams a winning edge.
- [21:29]
Tonya Moseley
Power your wins@dell.com win my guest is comedian Atsuko Akatsuka. Her new stand up special Father starts streaming on Hulu later this week. We'll be right back after a short break. I'm Tonya Moseley and this is FRESH air. Hi, this is Molly Sivi Nesburg, digital producer at FRESH air.
- [21:50]
Atsuko Okatsuka
And this is Terry Gross, host of the show.
- [21:52]
Tonya Moseley
One of the things I do is.
- [21:53]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Write the weekly newsletter, and I'm a newsletter fan. I read it every Saturday after breakfast. The newsletter includes all the week shows, staff recommendations and Molly picks timely highlights from the archive. It's a fun read.
- [22:06]
Tonya Moseley
It's also the only place where we tell you what's coming up next week, an exclusive.
- [22:10]
Atsuko Okatsuka
So subscribe@whyy.org fresh air. And look for an email from Molly every Saturday morning.
- [22:18]
Tonya Moseley
I want to talk a little bit about this latest standup special because you talk about reconnecting with your father in it, and he's always lived in Japan. So essentially you grew up here in the States in la, where you all arrived without him. And I want to talk more about that in the moment. But he has brought up the idea of you and your husband having children. And I want to play a clip. Here's what you had to say about that in the special.
- [22:44]
Atsuko Okatsuka
I have reconnected with my dad, and we're very close, but he really wants me to have kids because he thinks that's how you undo a traumatic past. And I always have to be like, oh, Dad, I think our family should stop. Should stop. And in fact, Ryan has a vasectomy scheduled for the end of the year. Yes. Oh, yes. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. I booked it. Thank you. Thank you.
- [23:21]
Tonya Moseley
That was my guest today, Atsuko Akatsuka, in her new Hulu comedy special, Father. What I love about that is that it's very singular, cause it's your experience. But I think that a lot of people can also feel that way, like we're not passing down this generational trauma. But was not having children something that you always knew for yourself that you didn't want, or did that come with you and Ryan together making that decision based on your history?
- [23:49]
Atsuko Okatsuka
It's something I never really wanted, you know. And then Ryan happened to feel the same way, too. So when we came together, it was an easy thing to, you know, come to a conclusion about. We were just like, this is how we feel. Yeah.
- [24:06]
Tonya Moseley
Margaret Cho, you tell the story about how being at this Baptist church, someone gave you a dvd. Did they give you that DVD because they already could see you were funny, or was it just a coincidence?
- [24:22]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yeah. We would joke around a lot about stuff. And, you know, she said she was older than me, this girl who passed me the dvd.
- [24:30]
Tonya Moseley
Yeah.
- [24:30]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yeah. And she said, I think you'll like this. Yeah, and she gave me an example of a joke that Margaret Cho had, which was, oh, she, you know, she's really prolific. She has a joke about how like, you know, hello Kitty, you know, she's hello Kitty, that's her name. But she doesn't have a mouth, so how does she say hello or something like that.
- [24:53]
Tonya Moseley
Yeah.
- [24:53]
Atsuko Okatsuka
And I was like, whoa, that's, you know, as a kid, I found that to be so funny and neat. Yeah. I think it's because she saw that I would enjoy it.
- [25:03]
Tonya Moseley
Many years later, you're face to face with Margaret Cho. I was really touched. I think she said about you that when she looks at you from the moment she first became acquainted with your work, that you just knew who you were immediately because she didn't know. And I think that's just she didn't know for herself when she first started off. I think that's so powerful because you know who you are in part because you were able to see her do it.
- [25:32]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Oh, for sure. Without Margaret Cho, there's no me. There's without even Bobby Lee, who is one of the first. Without Jo Koy, you know, there wouldn't be me without a lot of people. Right. And we can go on with the list without Anna May Wong, who's an actress and not a comedian, but there wouldn't be me. Yeah. It's we talk about the first. You said, you know, in 2025, there's still the first to do this and the second to do this. Margaret really was the first Asian American female standup and they were mean to her. They were not kind. She talks about it in her standup, from having eating disorders to having to audition for her own TV sitcom for her own character, only for them to say, you're too fat, so go and lose weight. What does that do to a person? And I've really, I watched her go through it, but look at her. I mean, look, to still be doing it and crushing it, too. And she's my friend. That's. Yeah. It's truly an honor to know her.
- [26:41]
Tonya Moseley
Let's take a short break. If you're just joining us, my guest is comedian Atsuko Akatsuka. Her new Hulu stand up special is called Father. We'll continue our conversation after a short break. This is FRESH air.
- [26:55]
Terry Gross
This message comes from Capital One, presenting sponsor of the 2025 Tiny Desk Contest. More than 7,000 unsigned artists entered NPR Music's Tiny Desk Contest this year. The judges will pick one winner to perform behind the tiny desk at NPR's headquarters. Then the Tiny Desk contest is heading on the road. Join the fun this summer as the winner travels to 10 cities for one of a kind concerts in Los Angeles, Chicago, Nashville and more. And at each stop, a unique surprise headliner who has played the Tiny Desk will join the bill with the 2025 winner. Visit npr.org tinydeskcontest to buy tickets, then get ready to get out there with the Venture X card from presenting sponsor Capital One. With Venture X, you earn unlimited double miles on everything you buy, turning all of your purchases into Extraordinary Travel Capital One. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capitalone.com for details. This message comes from Progressive Insurance. Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states. This message is from Synchrony bank, who wants to remind you to stay flexible. Not the 10,000 steps before breakfast, yoga, bending, circus, performing, wish I hadn't done that kind of flexible. It's about staying financially flexible. Like with their high Yield savings account, you'll earn a great rate without monthly fees or minimums that can slow your Progress. Go to synchrony.com NPR Member FDIC One.
- [28:28]
Tonya Moseley
Of the things I think I heard you say is that there's a three prong approach to your your comedy. It's your voice, it's the material. And it's also what you do with your body when you're, when you're standing on the stage.
- [28:41]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Right.
- [28:42]
Tonya Moseley
That each of those by themselves you actually don't think is kind of funny. You think it's like all three of those things that is actually the magic.
- [28:51]
Atsuko Okatsuka
It's the father, Son and Holy Ghost. Yeah, I guess so. Right? Yeah. That's how I express myself.
- [29:01]
Tonya Moseley
How did you discover that? Especially when it comes to your aesthetic. I mean your fashion game is what you are known for. Secondary to you being funny. You wear these bright, beautiful colors. Your hair is on point. Like how did you come to that look? Had you always been a fashion person?
- [29:19]
Atsuko Okatsuka
I. I don't think I was. I used to even wear like my grandma's clothes as a kid, whatever she got her hands on.
- [29:27]
Tonya Moseley
Yep.
- [29:28]
Atsuko Okatsuka
And you know when someone 50 years older than you is dressing you, sometimes it was like plaid on plaid on plaid. What is going on? Or her idea of what a kid would wear. So sometimes it was like hello Kitty top, hello Kitty pants, bright red shoes, polka dotted shoelaces. Right. And I think the randomness of that was kind of it pushed me to, you know, be out there looking wild. So I think when I finally started trying to tailor my look maybe 10 years ago, I was able to be more bold because it's like, hey, I used to wear grandma's slacks. You know what I mean?
- [30:07]
Tonya Moseley
To school, I could wear anything. Where did the bowl haircut come from?
- [30:13]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Well, this bowl cut in history. I don't know. Is it the.
- [30:18]
Tonya Moseley
No, it is your bowl haircut. Yeah.
- [30:21]
Atsuko Okatsuka
I'm like, did friars. I feel like friars had this right in, like, Europe or something.
- [30:26]
Tonya Moseley
Yeah.
- [30:26]
Atsuko Okatsuka
But they would keep the middle bald.
- [30:29]
Tonya Moseley
But I noticed in the documentary with your mom and grandma, you had a different cut. You had, like, sort of emo look going on.
- [30:36]
Atsuko Okatsuka
I know. Gosh. Because I was behind the camera when I was a kid. I had this bold cut, too. Too. A lot of Asian kids have it when they're a kid. And I do love fashion. I love the arts. And so I love, like, looking like a art gallery owner a little bit. But also, you know, a lot of Asians say, hey, I had the haircut as a kid. It was a nightmare. Everyone made fun of me. I think it's so ugly, and I like challenging that a little bit to be like, well, the things that made me feel like a freak. Right? I'm gonna own now. I get to choose my own look. Right? And it's chic now, and it's fashion. Right. And people show up wearing wigs of my bowl cut to my shows now. I've started a movement.
- [31:19]
Tonya Moseley
I'm thinking about you as a little girl wearing your grandma's clothes. And I want to play a clip from your latest special father where you talk about growing up the way you did. Let's listen.
- [31:31]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Because I grew up with some kids, some classmates, whose parents blindly supported them growing up, and they are pretty well adjusted people. Are they interesting? No. Are they on stage right now? No. Those people will never be on stage. You know why? You know why? Because they don't have a hole in their heart that they have to fill with a validation of strangers.
- [32:06]
Tonya Moseley
That was my guest, Atsuko Okatsuka, and her new Hulu special father. And we talked about this whole idea about, like, how, you know, stand up is for people who don't want to process their feelings.
- [32:19]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Oh, sure.
- [32:20]
Tonya Moseley
Which you said. But how did you get into comedy? How did you decide this was a career that you wanted to get into? You left home living with this boyfriend. You decide to go to college. And how did comedy become the direction?
- [32:40]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Well, yeah, I, you know, so that boyfriend and I broke up. And then I was dating my teacher from a community college that I was going to, the community college I was going to, and it was him. You know, other comedians have asked me, how did you find comedy or how did you find music if you didn't have older siblings?
- [33:04]
Tonya Moseley
Because music's a big part of your right, of your life too.
- [33:07]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yeah, but my mom and grandma didn't listen to music in the. When, when we were growing up in the garage, they. It was just silence. My grandma will cook to silence. My grandma will live in silence. My mom too. It was just me trying out things on tv. Just whatever I found, that's what I would be influenced by, or my classmates. I would hear them talk about like Spice Girls or something in the household. There was a lot of, like, pop culture going on, so there was no way I thought it could be me. I, I, I. When I watched Margaret Cho on the dvd, I was like, this is neat. I didn't know this was a job. That's so cool. I love that she does this. This is good for her. Awesome. I love that this exists. But I never thought, that's gonna be me one day. I didn't have the self confidence. I didn't dare to dream big at the time. They really made you feel like there was only 20 comedians at a time.
- [34:00]
Tonya Moseley
Yeah. So how did it happen? You were in college. Was it a class?
- [34:05]
Atsuko Okatsuka
It was a filmmaking class. And then me and my teacher started dating. It was not very healthy, to be honest. But because he was older, you know, I was 19 and he was older, he just knew comedy. And he said, oh, you're very funny. Have you thought about doing standup? And I was like, I know, stand up. I love stand up. I love watching it. But, oh, gosh, no one's ever told me. And so then I decided to try taking it. I found a class on Craigslist for women because I didn't think going to open mics would be how I would excel. It was mostly guys and they were very late at night. Sometimes it's like 10pm to 2 in the morning. Sometimes you're waiting to get up on stage and then you're coming out to dark alleys. I was like, that's how you go missing.
- [34:54]
Tonya Moseley
Right, right. Do you remember that first set, what you joked about?
- [34:59]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yes, I do. Yeah. I remember one of my first jokes.
- [35:03]
Tonya Moseley
What was it?
- [35:04]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yeah, it's, oh, this guy found out I was Japanese and he said, japanese, huh? Well, I have a really good friend who works at Mitsubishi. Do you know Gary. And I go, gary. No, no, I don't know Gary. I know, Tom. That was my first joke. Yeah.
- [35:25]
Tonya Moseley
So much of your comedy is it's light and observational, but there is an element where you're also subversive, where you are sitting in your identity as an Asian American woman, but yet you're also, like, challenging the stereotypes. There was this video on social media where it's you and several Asian American celebrities, and you're asked about inside clothes and wearing your shoes inside. And everyone's like, never wear your shoes inside. I always change my clothes when I lay in the bed. Except for you. You come at the end and you say, oh, yeah, I walk around my house with my shoes and I go get under the covers with my outside clothes on.
- [36:11]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yes, yes, that was me. I cannot believe you found it, Tonya. You are trying to cancel me. No, but that is out there.
- [36:19]
Tonya Moseley
But the reason why it's so funny actually, is because while you're leaning into who you are, you're also, like, really giving us another lens into what it means to be an Asian American. Because we start off thinking about those early Asian American comedians and the things that often they were pushed and forced into. And then here you are talking about. Here's what I'm not.
- [36:44]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Thank you so much. I couldn't have said it better myself. And that is why I used to wear shoes in the house sometimes and outside clothes on the bed.
- [36:55]
Tonya Moseley
Did you get some hate from that?
- [36:57]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yeah. People were like, jail, jail. Put her in jail. But, you know. Yes. I didn't have a conventional upbringing. So there's various reasons why, you know, shoes in the house became a thing. Like, you know, my grandma's 90 now. Okay. And, you know, they both wear diapers, my mom and grandma. And so we just found it easier to wear shoes, for example, you know, around the house. Yeah. It's just, you know, no family is the same. No Asians are the same. We're not a monolith.
- [37:28]
Tonya Moseley
Of course.
- [37:29]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yeah.
- [37:30]
Tonya Moseley
If you're just joining us, my guest is comedian Atsuko Okatsuka. Her new stand up special Father, streaming on Hulu. We'll continue our conversation after a short break. This is FRESH AIR support for this.
- [37:42]
Terry Gross
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Atsuko Okatsuka
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Terry Gross
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- [38:52]
Tonya Moseley
You produced this documentary. We were talking about where you followed your mother and grandmother. We got to see some of the realities of their lives. And one of the things that really struck me is that as you said, like, your mom's always on your mind and as they age, I wonder how you are. How are you dealing with it?
- [39:13]
Atsuko Okatsuka
It's something I think I'm thinking about as I, you know, I'm touring with my new show after Father, and those are the themes I'm actually talking about more because I am going through it and thinking about, you know, my grandma's mortality, for example, because she is 91 and, you know, she's getting physically sick a lot more. I gave her a bath for the first time recently. You know, I'm learning these new things.
- [39:43]
Tonya Moseley
Yes.
- [39:43]
Atsuko Okatsuka
And so it is something I'm thinking about and more and more. I think you could see that, like on my socials, my social media. I don't we're not able to do those videos as much anymore. They're, they're more tired and it was a fun family time. It used to be for us where we my grandma looked forward to it, dancing and stuff, but she doesn't have the energy as much anymore. So yeah, I'm in that phase that you were talking about where you're like, oh, when maybe there's trauma happening, you don't know it yet. So in a year it'll be funny or I'll be able to talk about it. Right. But right now, you know, it's like I got my therapist and then, you know, we're figuring out more medical stuff with my mom and, you know, medical stuff with Grandma, too.
- [40:30]
Tonya Moseley
Tell me about this new show.
- [40:32]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Well, this new show is it is about like, you know, caretaking and now I have a. I also recently met my brother for the first time.
- [40:43]
Tonya Moseley
Your brother from whom?
- [40:44]
Atsuko Okatsuka
My dad's side. Because my dad's side is full of surprises, too, I'm finding.
- [40:51]
Tonya Moseley
And I just realized we might have, like, skipped right past this after I mentioned your father, but when you moved here at 8, you lived with your mom and your grandmother, and you had so many questions in your mind about your father. Why didn't he intervene and stop you from coming here to the States? Even when you all forged a relationship, you never asked those questions until you were on this American Life. And he shared with you that he felt that maybe it was best for you to be with your mom and grandmother, but he felt a lot of pain about it.
- [41:24]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Right, right.
- [41:24]
Tonya Moseley
But he had two children older than you when you were born, from a previous marriage.
- [41:28]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Right. And I didn't even mention the third one. There's another brother, and that's the brother I met recently. There's an oldest brother that was also from his first marriage before my mom, and that brother was taken from him, too. So, yeah, my dad's gone through a lot, but so this past Christmas, when I went to go see my dad, I got to meet this brother, too, for the first time. They had also reunited for the first time in decades, and me and my brother got to meet. And so I talk about that in this show, too.
- [42:05]
Tonya Moseley
This new show.
- [42:06]
Atsuko Okatsuka
That's right.
- [42:06]
Tonya Moseley
Can you say publicly what this new show is yet, or is it still under wraps?
- [42:10]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Oh, yeah, no, I'm touring it now. I just came out with a tour title. It's just called the Big Bowl Tour, where my bowl cut is four times bigger than it is right now. In the poster. Yeah. In it, I really talk about going back home to Japan and, you know, and this reconnection with my brother as well.
- [42:29]
Tonya Moseley
How do you brace yourself for these surprises? Because, you know, I think when we turn 18, we turn 21. We kind of. We know who we are, we're set, we understand our origin story. But your origin story keeps evolving.
- [42:46]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yeah, I know, because people be wild. No one was ready to have a kid is what I'm realizing. Right. All of our parents, everyone was improvising. Hence secrets. Right. And so how do I embrace it? Oh, my gosh. In my unhinged ways. Right. So when my dad, you know, was like, well, your brother is here in Japan, and we just reconnected. Would you want to meet him? I said, every time I come back to Japan, it's like a new piece of information. What is up with my family. What is up with you guys? I have a. Every time I have a new sibling. Yeah, okay. Yes, of course I want to meet him. But I said if we're gonna meet, do something dramatic like that, it's got to be under my terms.
- [43:26]
Tonya Moseley
What were your terms?
- [43:27]
Atsuko Okatsuka
We're gonna meet at a Ninja Samurai theme park.
- [43:30]
Tonya Moseley
What?
- [43:32]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Near my brother. Where my brother lives. Near. Yeah. And so he lives in Nikko, which is like a few hours away from Tokyo. Yeah. And I said, you know, there's a Ninja Samurai theme park that I want to go back and revisit. It's really fun. It's mostly like 12 year old kids and white guys that go, how did.
- [43:49]
Tonya Moseley
You know about it? Was it a place you knew before? And you're like, I gotta get there.
- [43:53]
Atsuko Okatsuka
I went there once with my dad when I was like 20.
- [43:56]
Tonya Moseley
Okay. Yeah.
- [43:57]
Atsuko Okatsuka
When I got my green card and I could go visit him, finally I, I went and we went, we went to that park together. And this time I had Ryan with me. I was like, I want to enjoy, you know, this, you know, running away from like ninja actors and samurai scare actors. And there's a performance every 30 minutes. There's a lot going on where I was like, we will never really have to communicate.
- [44:21]
Tonya Moseley
You can meet your brother, but you guys don't have to deal in feelings.
- [44:24]
Atsuko Okatsuka
That's right. Yeah. It's me running away from feelings. Yeah.
- [44:29]
Tonya Moseley
I was just wondering like, you know that saying laugh to keep from crying? It's my favorite saying. But this moment that you're in right now where you are dealing with your aging mom and grandmother and all the realities of that, and yet you're also in this show and making jokes about it. Is there ever an in between of you processing where you are crying so that you can get to the laugh?
- [44:54]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Oh, oh, yeah. More lately, you know, with the career sort of going and, you know, in a fast pace with the touring. When I'm touring, I'm away from the family. It feels like the opposite of what I was trying to do. But because I tour, I can make money, you know, so that medical bills.
- [45:17]
Tonya Moseley
Are not cheap because you're paying for all of that.
- [45:19]
Atsuko Okatsuka
I've got two elders, they're in diapers. And so, yeah, it's. I've, I've cried more than before in the past and I didn't cry. I don't cry a lot. If you ask my husband to describe me or ask him how often I cry, he'll say like, oh gosh, maybe like twice a year. Right. And but that's already a lot for me and I've surpassed that this year, I would say. So. Yeah. This is definitely while I'm writing this new show about like some of it being about caretaking. I'm definitely going through the cries right now.
- [45:55]
Tonya Moseley
I'm listening to you and I'm just thinking about, wow, I mean, how far we've come, not only just you, but just in general that like your mother suffered for so long not knowing, not having a diagnosis. And now we're in this moment where every little bit of our day to day feelings, emotions we can clock, we can kind of dissect, we can find a solution for.
- [46:19]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yeah.
- [46:20]
Tonya Moseley
Do you think about that often? How does that feel to like you have control over yourself?
- [46:26]
Atsuko Okatsuka
That's something I talked about with Ryan, my husband recently. And I got really sad thinking about it, actually, where I go, oh, I wish, you know, the people before us got this. You know, I just wish, you know, our parents or grandparents, all of them got to do this. I always think, gosh, the people before us were so strong, you know, the matriarchs, like, you're alive. What? I would have ran into a tree a long time ago, you know, so it's cool that we have these things. I have apps that can help us meditate and things like that. They didn't have that back then.
- [47:06]
Tonya Moseley
Yeah.
- [47:06]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yeah.
- [47:08]
Tonya Moseley
Atsuko Akatsuka, this has been such a pleasure. Thank you so much.
- [47:12]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Oh my gosh. Thank you so much for having me.
- [47:15]
Tonya Moseley
Atsuko Akatsuka's new standup special is called Father. It debuts on Hulu June 13, and she's currently performing her new standup as part of her big bowl tour. Tomorrow on FRESH air, Molly Zhang Fast on her memoir. She writes about the issues she faced as the daughter of the famous novelist Erika Zhang. It's also about the worst year in her life, 2023, when her husband was diagnosed with metastasized pancreatic cancer and she put her mother and stepfather in a nursing home because of their dementia. Zhang Fast is a political analyst for msnbc. I hope you can join.
- [48:01]
Atsuko Okatsuka
To keep.
- [48:02]
Tonya Moseley
Up with what's on the show and get highlights of our interviews. Follow us on Instagram at NPRFreshAir. Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham. Our managing producer is Sam Brigger. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Anne Marie Baldonado, Lauren Krenzel, Teresa Madden, Monique Nazareth, Thea Chaloner, Susan Nakundi and Anna Bauman. Our digital media producer is Molly CB Nesper and our consulting visual producer is Hope Wilson. Roberta Shorrock directs the show with Terry Gross. I'm Tanya Moseley.
- [48:42]
Capella University
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- [49:05]
Terry Gross
This message comes from Crown, publisher of the Demon of Unrest, A Saga of hubris, heartbreak and Heroism at the dawn of the Civil War. By Erik Larson. The Demon of Unrest is available wherever books and audiobooks are sold. This message comes from Mint Mobile. Mint Mobile took what's wrong with wireless and made it right. They offer premium wireless plans for less and all plans include high speed data, unlimited talk and text and nationwide coverage. See for yourself@mintmobile.com Switch.