Fresh Air – Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson
Date: October 2, 2025
Host: Terry Gross
Guest: Dwayne Johnson
Theme: Wrestling Fame, Family Legacy, and Transforming Pain into Art
Episode Overview
This episode features an in-depth interview with Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson, covering his transition from wrestling superstardom to acclaimed movie actor and producer. Discussion centers on his new film The Smashing Machine (based on MMA fighter Mark Kerr), his iconic wrestling persona, his family’s complicated wrestling legacy, injuries and pain tolerance, and personal reflections on ambition, authenticity, and reconciliation.
Key Discussion Points and Insights
1. From Wrestling to The Smashing Machine
- Dwayne Johnson’s latest film chronicles the life of Mark Kerr, a troubled MMA pioneer. Johnson describes Kerr as “incredibly powerful and vulnerable, the paradox that I'd imagine characterizes many professional fighters.” [00:00–02:43]
- Johnson became both actor and producer on the project, optioning the film and recruiting Benny Safdie as director.
2. Considering a Career in MMA
- Johnson confesses real-life temptation to join MMA during a tough stretch in wrestling. The main reason was “money,” noting wrestlers worked 235+ nights a year for less pay than MMA fighters. [02:46–05:23]
- Quote: “First of all, I realized I don't like getting punched in the face, so I prefer not to.” [02:55, Dwayne Johnson]
- Ultimately, a WWE creative decision — to make him a “heel” (villain) — changed his path forever, launching “The Rock” persona. [04:44]
3. Persona vs. Authenticity in Pro Wrestling
- Initially debuted as “Rocky Maivia” (honoring his forebears), Johnson was instructed to always smile as a “babyface” (good guy).
- Fans rejected the inauthenticity, leading to his transformation into “The Rock.”
- Quote: “The crowd felt, and it was true, that I wasn't being just real and authentic...and they began to turn on me.” [08:25, Dwayne Johnson]
- Embracing the heel role, he became an audience favorite: “I became like the Don Rickles of pro wrestling.” [11:19]
4. The Line Between Performance and Real Pain
- Johnson describes a brutal WrestleMania match with Ken Shamrock where actual blood was involved, after he landed badly and damaged his lungs.
- “In professional wrestling, it is always and only real blood.” [12:36, Dwayne Johnson]
- The blend of scripted outcomes and genuine risk is a constant: “We rehearsed for hours and hours…but sometimes things hurt. You land in a way that hurts.” [13:30]
5. Portraying Mark Kerr’s Primal Violence
- Johnson discusses the mental shift required to depict MMA’s brutality, referencing Kerr’s willingness to “do whatever it took to win — poke a thumb in a cut, fight with no gloves.” [17:08–19:54]
- Quote: “For some folks, that's tough. It's hard to listen to. It can be hard to see and watch. But it takes a very, I think, unique person to become an elite MMA fighter.” [17:08]
- Notably, outside the ring, Kerr was “sweet and gentle,” showing the “paradox” Johnson found compelling. [19:54–20:46]
6. Injuries and Pain Tolerance
- Johnson shares a staggering list of injuries: numerous knee surgeries, torn Achilles, complete shoulder reconstruction, and the infamous WrestleMania match where he finished with a torn quad and adductor.
- Quote: “In that match, I wind up tearing my quadricep and my adductor off my pelvis… I asked the referee…‘how much time do we have left?’ and he said, ‘about 20 minutes. Can you go on?’ And I said, yes.” [24:16–25:36]
- Stressed the duty to “finish the match” — even in extreme pain — especially when passing the “torch” to John Cena, marking his final wrestling bout. [26:38–28:46]
7. The Wrestling Legacy and ‘Working the Gimmick’
- Johnson’s family history: son and grandson of wrestling pioneers; father (Rocky Johnson) was one of the first Black stars, mother’s family were influential Samoan wrestling figures. [28:46–29:23]
- Wrestling evolved from regional flea markets to global stadiums. Johnson notes how “working the gimmick” meant living your in-ring persona even offstage — often to the family’s financial and personal detriment.
- Quote: “Instead of going home to their mansions, we went home to our trailer parks.” [34:09, Dwayne Johnson]
8. Difficult Relationship with His Father
- Reveals deep hurt over his father publishing a memoir containing “quotes from me that were not true,” leading to estrangement. His father died suddenly not long after, before they reconciled.
- Quote: “We weren't talking…That was like a dark mark, that Christmas. But, no, we weren't talking. That was the last time we spoke. And then he died.” [38:21]
- Johnson’s takeaway: “Stay tight…Don’t not talk for weeks because you just never know what’s around the corner.” [39:13]
9. Trailblazing, Representation, & Shared Triumphs
- Speaks proudly of his father and Tony Atlas as the first Black WWE tag champions, noting the cultural impact: “They were changing the behavior of people. And that's what one of the qualities of trailblazing is: when you're able to change the behavior of somebody.” [44:35, Dwayne Johnson]
- Despite career ambitions to forge his own path, he describes sharing the ring with his father as a highlight for both of them. [42:14–45:24]
10. Music, Moana, and Cultural Roots
- Grew up surrounded by music—his mother still carries a ukulele everywhere she goes.
- Enjoyed singing vocally for Moana and may have recorded an album “if we were in the 60s.”
- Quote: “In our culture, especially on the Polynesian side, singing and dancing was ever present in our household…” [45:58]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)
-
On avoiding MMA:
“First of all, I realized I don’t like getting punched in the face, so I prefer not to.” [02:55, Dwayne Johnson] -
On authenticity:
“The crowd felt, and it was true, that I wasn't being just real and authentic...and they began to turn on me.” [08:25, Dwayne Johnson] -
On wrestling’s pain:
“In professional wrestling, it is always and only real blood. And that's the truth.” [12:36, Dwayne Johnson] -
Portraying Mark Kerr:
“It takes a very, I think, unique person to become an elite MMA fighter…whatever it took to win.” [17:08] -
On monumentally painful injuries:
“In that match, I wind up tearing my quadricep and my adductor off my pelvis…‘how much time do we have left?’…‘about 20 minutes. Can you go on?’ And I said, yes.” [24:16–25:36] -
Lessons from losing his father:
“Stay tight. Don’t not talk for weeks because you just never know what’s around the corner.” [39:13] -
On cultural trailblazing:
“They were changing the behavior of people. And that's what one of the qualities of trailblazing is…” [44:35] -
Singing
Dwayne Johnson performs “You’re Welcome” from Moana: “Okay, okay. I see what’s happening, yeah. You’re face to face with greatness, and it’s strange…” [48:06]
Timestamps for Important Segments
- 02:46 – Johnson discusses considering MMA and the economics behind it
- 06:53 – Babyface vs. Heel, path to creating “The Rock”
- 12:36 – WrestleMania match with Ken Shamrock and real injury details
- 17:08 – On the extreme psychology and violence of MMA
- 24:15 – List of career injuries; WrestleMania injury with John Cena
- 28:46 – Wrestling legacy and company evolution
- 32:52 – “Working the gimmick” in and out of the ring
- 34:09 – Financial realities for wrestling families
- 37:35 – Falling out with his father over the memoir
- 39:13 – Advice not to let grudges linger with loved ones
- 44:35 – First Black tag team champions and wrestling’s impact on society
- 45:58 – Musical upbringing and talk of singing in Moana
- 48:06 – Dwayne performing "You're Welcome" from Moana
Tone and Language
The conversation is warm, candid, sometimes poignant, maintaining Johnson's mix of humility, humor, and passion for both his craft and family. Terry Gross’s interviewing is gently probing, empathetic, and incisive—a tone of mutual respect pervades the entire episode. Johnson’s openness about pain, struggle, and ambition provides inspiration and humanity beyond the larger-than-life personas.
This summary offers an engaging, thorough guide to the episode, accessible to listeners and non-listeners alike, distilling Dwayne Johnson’s colorful anecdotes into reflections on legacy, resilience, and reinvention.