Ebon Moss-Bachrach Takes Us Inside 'The Bear' Kitchen

Summary

Fresh Air Episode Summary: "Ebon Moss-Bachrach Takes Us Inside 'The Bear' Kitchen"

Introduction

In the June 25, 2025 episode of Fresh Air, host Anne Marie Baldonado engages in an in-depth conversation with acclaimed actor Eben Moss-Bachrach. Renowned for his portrayal of Richie in the Emmy-winning FX series The Bear, Moss-Bachrach delves into his character's complexities, his experiences on set, and his upcoming projects in film and theater.

Exploring Richie in The Bear

Moss-Bachrach opens up about his character Richie Jaramovich, a multi-dimensional role that has earned him two consecutive Emmy Awards for Best Supporting Actor in a Comedy Series.

• Character Depth and Personal Connection: Richie is depicted as loud and abrasive, grappling with the recent death of his best friend and business partner, Michael, and dealing with Michael's younger brother, Carmi. Moss-Bachrach relates personally to Richie’s struggle with change and loss.

  "I knew that this was a man who was suffering, who was finding himself in a world that he didn't really recognize anymore..." (03:36)

• Emotional Complexity: As the series progresses, Richie’s vulnerabilities surface, showcasing his challenges with the end of his marriage and his dedication to his young daughter.

Filming Experiences and On-Set Dynamics

Moss-Bachrach describes the intense and collaborative environment on the set of The Bear.

• High-Energy Production: Despite the show's often intense and adrenaline-fueled scenes, the actual set is described as "loving, fun, calm, [and] well run."

  "It requires a lot of sensitivity and listening... it's a very loving, fun, calm, well run set." (04:50)

• Rehearsal Process: Achieving the show's authentic feel involves extensive rehearsals and coordination among actors, camera, and props departments.

Highlighting Memorable Episodes and Scenes

Anne Marie Baldonado plays selected scenes from The Bear and Girls to illustrate Moss-Bachrach's range and depth as an actor.

• The Bear – Season Three Conflict: A heated argument scene between Richie and Carmi exemplifies their strained relationship and differing visions for the restaurant.

  "I don't like this at all. Sid, it's fine... He's a baby replicant who's not self-actualized." (07:04)

• The Bear – Season Two "Fishes" Episode: Moss-Bachrach reflects on filming an emotionally charged Christmas family dinner, highlighting the challenges and the camaraderie with guest stars like Jamie Lee Curtis and Bob Odenkirk.

  "I was sort of observing these incredibly talented actors go experience... very empathetic in trying to make everybody feel at home." (09:52)

Character Development and Personal Insights

Richie's evolution is a focal point of the discussion, emphasizing his dedication as a father and his personal growth throughout the series.

• Parenting Portrayal: Moss-Bachrach emphasizes Richie's unwavering commitment to his daughter, contrasting it with his struggles in his professional and personal life.

  "He's a dad that would do anything for his daughter... each minute is something that he really invests himself and tries to be present." (16:44)

• Emotional Moments: The scene where Richie celebrates a successful day by singing Taylor Swift’s "Love Story" illustrates his rare moments of joy amidst chaos.

  "It's just a visceral, great kind of release... something that we don't see that much." (17:51)

Upcoming Projects: Broadway Debut and Marvel's Fantastic Four

Moss-Bachrach discusses his expanding career beyond television, highlighting his upcoming roles in theater and film.

• Broadway Debut in Dog Day Afternoon: Moss-Bachrach expresses excitement about co-starring with Jon Bernthal, honoring the legacy of John Cazale's original role.

  "I'll try to do my best to honor this guy... but we're gonna make it a bit different." (36:34)

• Role in The Fantastic Four First Steps: Transitioning to a motion-capture role as Ben Grimm (the Thing), Moss-Bachrach describes the unique challenges and creative opportunities of bringing a beloved comic book character to life.

  "There's as much physical freedom... it's like a make-believe when I was a kid." (31:44)

Early Career and Notable Roles

Reflecting on his beginnings, Moss-Bachrach shares insights from his early roles in films like The Royal Tenenbaums and series such as Girls.

• Breakout Role in Girls: Originally a guest star, his character Desi became a series regular, showcasing his ability to portray complex, flawed individuals.

  "Desi is a little bit of a con man... a lot of crisis and chaos going on internally." (23:19)

• Memorable Appearance in The Royal Tenenbaums: Discussing his role as Frederick the bellhop, Moss-Bachrach fondly recalls Wes Anderson’s meticulous attention to detail on set.

  "Wes Anderson's attention to detail... adjusting my little pillbox hat." (21:49)

Conclusion

Eben Moss-Bachrach's interview on Fresh Air offers a comprehensive look into his artistic journey, his dedication to his craft, and his thoughtful approach to complex characters. As he continues to expand his repertoire with diverse roles in television, film, and theater, his portrayal of Richie in The Bear remains a standout testament to his talent and emotional depth.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• "I'm trying to talk to you, okay? Don't be rude..." (02:17)
• "That scene was as written... I wouldn't call it like improvising." (08:17)
• "Richie, I respect your honesty and bravery from inside a locked vault." (07:12)
• "Ben couldn't really move the way that I can move... he's very, very heavy grounded." (32:30)
• "Working on new American plays... is like everyone's getting their hands dirty." (38:22)

This episode encapsulates Eben Moss-Bachrach's multifaceted career and his profound connection to his characters, offering listeners an intimate glimpse into the making of The Bear and his future endeavors.

Transcript

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

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[Tanya Moseley]

This is FRESH AIR. I'm Tanya Moseley. And our guest today is Eben Moss Bachrach. He's won two consecutive Emmy Awards for playing the role of Richie in the FX series the Bear. The show, which has won 21 Emmys altogether, returns this week for its fourth season. Moss Backrack spoke to FRESH airs. Anne Marie, when we first meet the.

[Anne Marie Baldonado]

Character Richie in the Bear, he's loud, abrasive and ornery. We get the sense that he's like this all the time. But he's also dealing with the recent death of his best friend and business partner, Michael, and the return of Michael's younger brother, Carmi. Carmi left Chicago to work at the world's best restaurants, and now he wants to transform the neighborhood sandwich shop Richie used to run with Michael. Here's Eben Moss Backrack as Richie with Jeremy Allen White as Carmi and Iowa Debris as Sydney from the first episode of the series.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

Hold on. Listen, let's just have a conversation for a second. Whoa. Is this.

[Anne Marie Baldonado]

This is Sydney I'm staging today.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

Your wedding today.

[Sydney]

Sydney. She's helping us out today.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

Cousin, you ordered different mayonnaise, bro.

[Sydney]

No, you chef.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

Yeah. Oh, you chef this Biff. He was using them to make a giant knuckle.

[Sydney]

It was a play on a panettonia. It would have been beautiful if you let me finish it.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

All right. Richie Jaramovich. Pleasure to meet you. Sweetheart.

[Sydney]

Don't say sweetheart.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

You're very calm. You're so woke. I mean, nothing by it, Sydney. Saying sweetheart's just part of our Italian heritage. Okay, Listen, I'm trying to talk to you, okay? Don't be rude and start doing a million things like, oh, smart, I don't ever have any time to take care of your mom for six. I got all kinds of receipts from my divorce lawyer backing up. Cause all the time I'm spent trying to put your family back together cause you're too much of a to come home. The guys are texting me. You're telling them to do all sorts of weird backwards. Don't do that, Carmen. Don't go messing with their heads and ordering different mayonnaise and hiring new bras without talking to me first. This is your brother's house. Oh, okay. Yeah. Remember, I was running it fine without you.

[Sydney]

Why didn't he leave it to you then?

[Anne Marie Baldonado]

As the show goes on, the viewers grow to love Richie, learning all the ways that he's hurting, which include the end of his marriage and his worry about losing a relationship with his young daughter. Ma's Bachrach has won two Emmy Awards for best supporting actor in a comedy series for playing Richie. He played Desi on the TV series Girls and starred in shows including Andor and the Punisher. He's also appeared in many plays and films over the decades, and next month he co stars in the next big Marvel film, the Fantastic Four. First Steps Eben Moss Bachrach, welcome to FRESH air.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

Thanks. Thank you.

[Anne Marie Baldonado]

I know that you're very protective of the characters that you play, so I want you know, I mean this in the best possible way. I think that Richie is the character. I've done the most dramatic 180 on, maybe ever. We just heard Richie from the beginning of the series. But as the show goes on, I know I'm not alone when I say that we're rooting for Richie. I feel that in many ways he's the heart of the show, which is a testament to the writing and to your performance. What did you know early on about the journey that Richie was gonna take?

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

I knew that this was a man who was suffering, who was finding himself in a world that he didn't really recognize anymore, who felt under threat, back against the wall, kind of, you know, trying to grab anything that was could keep him afloat. And somebody in that position, I think that kind of a part can hold a lot of volatile, dangerous, spontaneous behavior. Sort of like a lot can be justified by somebody who's fighting for their survival. And then as somebody who's like, at a certain point in my life, you know, I also related to this guy of just seeing, you know, so many things that I loved in my neighborhood, in my city, changing and seeing things, everything becoming a bank, you know, I really related to him in that way.

[Anne Marie Baldonado]

I will say that the Bear can be a pretty stressful watch. You know, there's yelling often, adrenaline always. And there's, you know, this anxiety that pulses throughout a lot of the time. What is it like to film? Does it feel that pitched as you're doing it? Does it feel that, like high octane?

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

It's funny for me to think about like a set that would be like how the scenes are like they call cut and then everyone's screaming at each other and putting out the cigarettes that were in the scene and Then lighting up cigarettes that they're gonna smoke in between takes. No, I mean to make something that alive feeling in a way, I think, you know, it takes an enormous amount of rehearsal between the actors, between the actors in the camera department and the props department. Like, we have such a deep and wonderful crew that, you know, it really requires a lot of sensitivity and listening. I think the people involved in making the Bear listen a lot more than Richie, Sidney, and Carmi. So it's a very loving, fun, calm, well run set.

[Anne Marie Baldonado]

I want to play a scene from season three of the show. The restaurant is getting off the ground, but both Richie and Carmi are still battling. They've just had a huge fight on the first day of service for friends and family, and they really yelled hateful things at each other. The character Richie even calls Carmi Dee Dee, which is Carmi's mom's name. And calling that may be one of the biggest insults Richie could give because, you know, that mom is pretty, you know, troubled. Anyway, they're trying to get back on track and have the restaurant be successful, but they have different ideas about how to do that. So here's the scene.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

Hey, Chef Sid, have you seen my iron? Also, when you have a sec, would you ask Chef Carmen what the he did with my tables out front?

[Sydney]

Chef Sid, would you please tell Richard that I thought I would set him up for success and arrange his tables in a more efficient pattern?

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

Is that what you do?

[Sydney]

Yes, that's what I did. It was really funny. I walked in and it was so strange. It looked like the person who had done it previously had never left the city of Chicago.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

We can leave the city of Chicago out of it.

[Sydney]

Zero flow, no efficiency. So I thought I'd give you a hand.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

Chef Sid, would you tell Chef Carmen that I can give him a hand if he wants? He wants to give me a hand, he can give me a hand.

[Anne Marie Baldonado]

I just might suggest that the both of you stop.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

Cause I don't like this at all. Sid, it's fine. Chef Carmen uses power phrases. Cause he's a baby replicant who's not self actualized. Which is maybe why he repeatedly referred to me as a loser.

[Sydney]

Richie, I apologize.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

No, no, no. It's all good. I don't need your apology. I know how you feel now. Also, I respect your honesty and bravery from inside a locked vault.

[Sydney]

You know what? Matter of fact, Chef Sydney, I don't remember Richard apologizing for all the. He was literally screaming at me while I was in the fridge.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

I love you. What you Know what out there? That's my dojo. Gets rearranged without my approval or consent. It creates an environment of fear, and fear does not exist in that dojo.

[Sydney]

Richard, I added more. Two tops. Because all those four tops were nonsense.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

Okay? All the four tops in the four.

[Sydney]

I moved the flowers because. Jesus Christ, that was a lot of flowers. Those flowers are apologizing and you're screaming.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

Am I? Yeah. Yeah, you are. Oh, yeah, that's. What is it? Is it rich? Richard, you wanna get the out of my face?

[Anne Marie Baldonado]

Shut up, please.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

Sorry, Sid. It's just textbook sublimation. You've seen it once, you've seen it a thousand times.

[Anne Marie Baldonado]

I actually don't know what to do right now. That's a scene from season three of the Bear with IO Debris, Jeremy Allen White and Eben Moss Backrack. When a scene is like that, with that much screaming, is it written that way or are you sort of improvising how you approach the arguing?

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

That scene, to quote Walter in The Big Lebowski, 8 year olds, dude, that scene was as written. I mean, you know, at this point in Richie's life, you know, he's trying to do some work, he's reading some self help books and, you know, I don't really have that kind of vernacular at my disposal, like, you know, all the self actualization. And I'm sure there were some changes in words from take to take, but yeah, I wouldn't call it like improvising.

[Anne Marie Baldonado]

I want to ask you about a few beloved episodes of the show. One is from season two called Fishes, which was a flashback episode going back five years before Michael's death and the changes at the restaurant. And we learn about their family, the Borsato family. The episode takes place on Christmas. It's a Christmas family dinner. And for those of us who grew up in families where there's a lot of yelling, friction, and also alcoholism, this episode is so good. But it can be triggering. And I know you say you know your favorite episodes of the Bear take place with the family of the restaurant, the staff that works there. But this episode has this impressive group of guest actors, like Jamie Lee Curtis as the matriarch of the family. There's also Bob Odenkirk, Sarah Paulson, John Mulaney, Gillian Jacobs, and some of the rest of the regular cast members. What was it like filming this episode? Was it as frenetic to film as it was to watch?

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

Yeah, we shot this over two days. It was different. All of a sudden there was SUVs on set and the food was a lot better. That was kind of different. I think that they rolled out the red carpet a little bit for all of our esteemed guest stars that. That week. Yeah. I mean, it's funny because, you know, these were actors that, you know, were. They're so high powered and we all know their work so well, but then they were guests on our set. And one thing I've noticed over the, you know, the years that I've done this is like, no matter how experienced you are and how many sets you've walked onto, it is always a little bit nervous and you feel a little bit shy or I feel a little bit shy every time I walk onto a new set. And so I was sort of observing these incredibly talented actors go experience that. And I was. I don't know, I think, at least for my part, I was very empathetic in trying to make everybody feel at home and welcome.

[Anne Marie Baldonado]

There's an episode that's focused on Richie's character called Forks, and it's great. And it sort of marks a transition for Richie where he seems to find new purposes. It's season two. They're trying to open the restaurant, and Carmi has sent your character, Richie, to train at another restaurant, one that's called one of the best restaurants in the world. I've read that you found filming this episode to be lonely. It's a quieter episode, and you're really the only member of the regular cast in it. What was it like filming this one?

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

Yeah, I mean, I found it lonely in a way. I thought the lighting was cold. It had a very different color to it than the rest of our episodes. There's usually a real warmth. And the bear in this one felt kind of blue and austere, almost like an operating room. I mean, I really love the people I work with. And my favorite scenes to shoot, like we said, are like the group scenes where, you know, I'm talking with Liza and Lionel and Edwin and everyone's sort of talking over each other and there's this shorthand. And here I was without any of those kind of hallmarks of the experience that I'd grown to love and looked forward to. And I was working with all new actors. I remember the layout of this restaurant was so confusing. I could never find where the bathroom was or where my little. I've carved out some little. I put my chair in some corner where I could sort of be alone and look at my lines and think about scenes and stuff, and I could never find my way back to it. I was just Confused. I think most of the time.

[Anne Marie Baldonado]

I think that comes out in the episode, actually. That starkness and that confusion.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

Yeah. I mean, it's an episode that I don't. I've seen it once kind of through, you know, like, squinting eyes, behind hands. It's just a lot of me for me to take in, to be honest.

[Anne Marie Baldonado]

One thing that's heartbreaking about Richie is how he mourns the end of his marriage. And because of flashbacks, we know that. It seems like on the timeline, as recently as five years ago, Richie and his wife were together. They were about to have a baby, and they were very much together. But by the time we meet Richie five years later, his marriage is over and his ex wife is with someone else. And I want to play a scene from. From that episode, Forks. Richie is working at the Michelin Star restaurant for that week. He's taking a break and gets a phone call from his ex wife, played by Gillian Jacobs.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

Hey.

[Gillian Jacobs]

Hey.

[Anne Marie Baldonado]

How are you?

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

I'm. I'm good. I'm great. You know. What's going on? Is Eva okay?

[Gillian Jacobs]

No, she's great. She's totally great.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

Yeah. Oh, yo, Jimmy, I got those Taylor Swift tics.

[Gillian Jacobs]

You did?

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

Yeah.

[Gillian Jacobs]

Oh, she's gonna be so excited.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

I know, right?

[Gillian Jacobs]

This is incredible.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

I got three if you wanna come. You know, you don't have to.

[Gillian Jacobs]

No, no, no. It's. I. That's so sweet. That's so sweet. I just. I know you're really busy, so I wanted to just tell you something. It's a little bit hard to say.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

Okay. Are you all right?

[Gillian Jacobs]

I'm fine. Yeah, I'm fine. I just want you to hear it from me. Frank proposed to me.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

What'd you say?

[Anne Marie Baldonado]

I said yes.

[Gillian Jacobs]

He's, like, a really good guy.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

That's great, Tiff.

[Gillian Jacobs]

Thank you. And I want you to know that nothing's gonna change between us.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

That's awesome.

[Gillian Jacobs]

You know, and I love you.

[Anne Marie Baldonado]

That's a scene from season two of the Bear. Will we learn more about what happened to their marriage in that relatively short period of.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

Yeah, that scene. Bear, A comedy.

[Anne Marie Baldonado]

Yeah, that scene's brutal.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

Gillian Jacobs, such a great actress. I love working with her. Unfortunately, most of our scenes are phone calls because they don't have much of a relationship anymore. Actually, I do think there's a lot of tenderness there, and she genuinely loves them. Do we learn more about what happened with them? We spend more time with them together as parents, as exes, in terms of, like, a literal sense of, like a flashback of the two of them. That's not something that we've shot.

[Anne Marie Baldonado]

Do you do work to fill in what might have happened to them?

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I spent a lot of time kind of daydreaming and thinking about these things and filling in the blanks. And these are. These are thoughts and fantasies and ideas that I will never share.

[Anne Marie Baldonado]

Understood. I think one thing that makes viewers love Richie is the way that he is with his daughter. Even though he's divorced, he's so devoted to her and doing the right thing by her and trying to be a good dad, besides having what seems like a tough upbringing where he sort of, you know, so much so that he becomes part of the family that owned the restaurant. You have two daughters, and I think that being a parent of girls can be very. A very specific parenting experience. What did you want to make sure that you brought to Richie as a father?

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

I mean, some of the things that are. That are challenging for him and making it difficult for him to navigate his way through the world, like loyalty, honesty, in a way, you know, so these things, I think, are sometimes hindrances and sometimes, you know, they're really great qualities. And I wanted. I wanted to see the kind of converse of some of these things in. In his relationship with his daughter. Obviously, he. You know, he's a dad that would do anything for his daughter, like so many parents. Like most parents, I would say. And then he's really into her world and where he doesn't listen as well on the outside with her. His time with her is so limited that it's so valuable. And I think each minute is something that he really invests himself and tries to be present in a way that he's not when he's at the restaurant. I also. I don't know, I just enjoy doing scenes with that little actress so much. I think she's so great and. I don't know, she's so fascinating. She's such an eccentric young girl.

[Anne Marie Baldonado]

There's a scene later in that episode where Richie has completely won everyone over at the fancy restaurant. He's really getting it and getting the value of his work. And he's driving home singing along to the Taylor Swift song Love Story. And it's this great triumphant moment for Richie. How did that moment come about? Like, was that always the song? I read you weren't necessarily a swiftie before you shot this. It's just such a great moment.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

Yeah, it is a great moment. I'm not gonna comment about my swifty or non swiftiness, but that's a Minefield. Either way, it's just.

[Anne Marie Baldonado]

Sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Yeah. I can't believe I did that to yourself.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

Yeah. Please, please. Come on. But I think that scene is a great scene and it's so nice to spend just a few minutes like singing something loudly and celebrating and having exuberance and driving and singing along with a song that you love loudly. I mean, that's such a visceral, great kind of release, something that we don't see that much, I think, in movies and TV shows or certainly certain stuff that I'm not being asked to do all that much. So, yeah, I really enjoyed that evening. I love those speed bumps. I love the squeaks, the squeak of the suspension in the car. But that was always written with that scene. I'm sure it was a process finding her, tracking her down, getting permission to use the song, but I don't really know about the details of that process.

[Anne Marie Baldonado]

Well, there's something perfect about that song because it's like a triumphant young love story, which seems like an echo to Richie's story. And then also just that he got her Taylor Swift tickets. That's like, I mean, that's like dad of the year material. So I feel like it just wraps it all together. And then also as you're driving, you're still cursing. As you're driving, the character Richie is still cursing at other drivers, which I think is also pretty richy.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

Yeah. And what you couldn't see is all these, these Arby's, these empty Arby's cups in the backseat just jumping up with every kind of speed bump, the chaos within the car.

[Anne Marie Baldonado]

My guest is Eben Moss Bachrach. The new season of the Bear premieres this week. More after a break. I'm Anne Marie Baldonado and this is FRESH air. This is FRESH air. I'm Ann Marie Baldonado back with actor Eben Moss Bachrach. He plays Richie on the FX show the Bear. Season four starts this week. Moss Bachrach has won two Emmy Awards for best supporting actor in a comedy series for the role. He starred as Desi in the TV series Girls and was in shows including Andor and the Punisher. He started out as a stage actor and next year he'll make his Broadway debut in a stage production of Dog Day Afternoon. Next month, he stars as Ben Grimm, AKA the Thing in the new Marvel film the Fantastic Four. First Steps. One of the first film roles you had was in the Wes Anderson film the Royal Tenenbaums. You played a bellboy at the hotel where Royal Tenenbaum, played by Gene Hackman, where he lives. Here's a little bit of that scene or all of that scene.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

Yeah, yeah, for sure. There's a call for you, Mr. Tenenbaum. Who is it, Frederick? A Mr. Pagoda.

[Anne Marie Baldonado]

That's you. And the royal ten vows. What was it like being in this film? Was it one of the first times you were on a set? And if that's true, what do you remember about it?

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

I rewatched that movie the other day with one of my kids and, God, it's such a good movie.

[Anne Marie Baldonado]

Yes.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

I'm so happy to be part of it, even in this tiny, tiny little way. And I think finally enough time has gone by where I was like, you know what? I'm pretty good as Frederick the bellhop. I'm okay. Okay. It was the second time I was on a set, probably my first time in such a fancy hotel. I remember mostly Wes Anderson's attention to detail. Him coming down like a tailor and sort of adjusting the hem of my pants, fixing my hair, adjusting my little pillbox hat. I mean, I got that part because I had quite a good head of hair.

[Anne Marie Baldonado]

Yeah, at the time you had kind of curly hair that comes out of the pillbox sort of at the bottom.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

Yeah, exactly. It kind of explodes. It's like an upside down volcano or something.

[Anne Marie Baldonado]

Well, one of your breakout roles was in the TV show Girls. You started out as a guest star who was only gonna be in a few episodes, but then became a series regular. When viewers meet you, you're audition and you meet the character Adam, who's played by Adam Driver, who's also auditioning and just starting out. And by the way, Desi is a successful actor. You know, he auditioned for a Broadway play and he got the role. How did you see Desi?

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

I saw him as a little bit of a con man. Really well put together on the outside, but a lot of crisis and chaos going on internally. A bit of a searcher. I feel like he was not committed necessarily acting. He was a musician. I'm sure he painted. And a lot of maybe, like, clothing. If I'm being, like, really not charitable. Like maybe pre distressed jeans.

[Anne Marie Baldonado]

Yeah, a lot of pre distressed denim.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

Yeah. But also, you know, somebody that felt very deeply loved. Deeply. A baby.

[Anne Marie Baldonado]

Yeah, a little bit. I wanna play a scene from Girls here. Desi is a regular cast member and is now with the character Marnie. They started out as a musical duo with some success. Eventually, Marnie and Desi get married, but they're also this musical Duke duo, too, in this scene. They're arguing about what music to use in their upcoming showcase for a record label, which is important to their future career as musicians. Here's the. Here's the scene.

[Gillian Jacobs]

You know what? We should open our showcase with this song.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

We only get two songs for the showcase?

[Anne Marie Baldonado]

Yes.

[Gillian Jacobs]

We get an opener and a closer. And this should be our opener.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

Yeah. I mean, this is a great song.

[Gillian Jacobs]

Thank you.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

But this is now one of our top two.

[Gillian Jacobs]

What do you like better?

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

Rattlesnake, Cowgirl, Heart for Sale. Whoa. Wanderful song from Marcus Garvey, Oaxaca Blues, Kokopelli Shelley. I mean, that's top six right there.

[Gillian Jacobs]

Yeah, I know. I just feel like it's our chance to show some range.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

Okay. See what I think about the showcase, we put our best foot forward.

[Gillian Jacobs]

Agreed.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

And if half of our set is a syrupy love song, that's a total.

[Gillian Jacobs]

Misleading, you know, but we sing love songs.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

Not really. We sing, like, modern American folk with an indie edge.

[Gillian Jacobs]

I tell people that we're like she and him, but with actual romance.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

But we're nothing like she and him.

[Gillian Jacobs]

We're not. Whoa, you're blowing my mind right now, Marnie.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

We are not.

[Gillian Jacobs]

I hope we're like she and him.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

My God, we are not. Are you kidding me right now? You're freaking me out. We are nothing like she and him, okay? We are nothing like that band. How can we have completely different takes on the same band that we are both in? That is bizarre to me.

[Gillian Jacobs]

I'm starting to wonder if maybe you don't like Close up because I wrote it instead of you.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

No, I like this song.

[Gillian Jacobs]

Are you sure?

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

I loved this song.

[Gillian Jacobs]

Okay, what do you mean love to this song?

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

And then you told me that you're writing she and him songs, and now, like, my whole. I gotta do a heavy rethink here.

[Gillian Jacobs]

How about we talk about the partnership that I thought we were in? Whereas recently. No, recently it's just been me writing while you tinker with your motorcycle.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

That's my. That's my mode of transportation, Marnie. That is my mode of transportation.

[Gillian Jacobs]

That doesn't change anything.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

That's how I get. That's weak, dude. That's my mode of transportation.

[Anne Marie Baldonado]

That's a scene from Girls. Did you watch Girls at the time when it was airing?

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

I didn't, no. I watched a little bit of it the first season, but I also was. I was, like, so jealous that I wasn't. I really wanted to be a part of it, and so it was complicated for me to watch it.

[Anne Marie Baldonado]

It was filming right there. It was filming like right by you.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

Yeah, exactly. Let's walk by. And then once I was working on it, I wouldn't watch it much just because I didn't want it to sort of affect the way I was gonna continue to work on it, you know, I didn't want it to make me self conscious.

[Anne Marie Baldonado]

What do you think of that scene?

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

Oh, my God. That scene is that that list of songs is really, really funny.

[Anne Marie Baldonado]

Let's take a short break and then we'll talk some more. My guest is Emmy award winning actor Eben Moss Bachrach. His show the Bear begins its new season this week. More after a break. This is FRESH air. This is FRESH air. I'm Ann Marie Baldonado back with actor Eben Moss Bachrach. Next month he stars in the new Marvel film the Fantastic Four First Steps. He's won two Emmys for his portrayal of Richie on the FX show the Bear. Next month, you truly enter your Marvel era. You've been in the Marvel universe before, but you're becoming a main character in the new movie the Fantastic Four First Steps. You play the character Ben Grimm who develops mutant supernatural powers and becomes this first movie is coming out and then you'll reprise your role in the two new upcoming Avenger films. So you're definitely, you know, in for more than one movie. What was it like being in this film?

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

Yeah, very different kind of part for me. I guess the biggest departure would be that it's, it's motion capture, performance capture. So I wear these groovy looking pajama kind of tights and top. And then I have wires strapped to various points of my body. And then I have a helmet with kind of GoPro looking cameras kind of on a little extended gimbals right in front of my nose to sort of capture my eyes and my mouth and my facial expressions.

[Anne Marie Baldonado]

And where are you, what space are you in when you're doing this?

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

I'm in on the set, you know, and I haven't seen the movie yet. But one thing I do know is that, you know, the art department and our production design is really spectacular. And so they're really pretty incredible set builds like things that I had never seen before that like reminded me of like old style, like D.W. griffith kind of like movie making. Huge, big sprawling sets of New York and Times Square and the Lower east side, incredible mid century modern house that the Fantastic Four live in. So I'm just on all these really cool sets and very much Involved as I would be. You know, I'm just in there with the other people in the scene, and I'm interacting with them. And they're in costumes, and I'm just sort of in this other strange techie kind of, you know, placeholder for what will then be built around animated. This much bigger orange rock guy.

[Anne Marie Baldonado]

Can you describe your character? Ben Grimm, who is the Thing? I'm not sure how much of the original story from the comic book series and from other movies are still part of this character.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

You know, people feel so strongly about this. You can't stray too far from the path. You gotta keep it pretty canon. Ben is from the Lower east side. He's from Yancy street, which is maybe like a little bit like Delancey street, maybe. And he's a school friend of Reed Richards. He's a football player. He's a wrestler. He becomes a star pilot, really amazing pilot. And Reid is this genius scientist that convinces Ben and his wife sue and her brother to go up and to steal the ship and go into outer space. And there's like a storm, some kind of space storm, and these gamma rays penetrate the ship and they all return changed forever. Ben is more changed because he has physically been altered. He has this new rock kind of dermis. So he looks like a monster, and he doesn't change back and forth like the Hulk or anything. That's just how he is for the rest of his life, with a couple of exceptions.

[Anne Marie Baldonado]

Oh, that's right. Yeah. Your character stays as a rock.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

Yeah, that's really key to his psyche, I think.

[Anne Marie Baldonado]

I haven't seen the Fantastic Four yet, but I like that you're playing another character that has this rock exterior. In this case, literally, he's made of rock. You've said that this acting, compared to your other roles, it's almost like another job. I was thinking that you show so much emotion through your face and through your physicality. What did you mean that it's almost a different kind of job? What are other ways that it's different?

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

I would think about it a lot in two ways over the course of a day. Like, my brain would go back and forth. One speed was that I was just trying to imbue this character with as much humanity as I could because I felt like I had to, in some ways, fight through all of this animation and because I was interested in. In. I think it kind of was similar to probably Ben's experience on a day where he knows how he seems and he knows he looks like this horrible monster. And so he's making concerted effort to bring his humanity through, to make people feel okay, to make people feel less, to make people be less mean towards him, to sort of undercut his external appearance. So I had that, that was going in one way while simultaneously I always had all this physical freedom and that in many ways this technology and this animation was like, like a, like a mask. And I had, I wasn't confined to my body and my physical appearance the way that I am for any other part I've ever done. So there was things I could do with movement, with heaviness and the way he would. His huge hands, huge feet, the way he would interact with things. So it. That became a much more imaginative fantasy. Sort of almost like how I would play make believe when I was a kid, you know.

[Anne Marie Baldonado]

So you are thinking about movement in a different way?

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

Yeah, well, certainly. I mean I had to. He couldn't really move the way that I can move. I mean, he's very, very heavy. He weighs thousands of pounds at the same time. He's very nimble. But I mean, I'm a kind of uncoordinated, lanky, sort of, I don't know, wet rubber band or something. So he's a much heavier grounded dude.

[Anne Marie Baldonado]

Now it was recently announced that you will be on Broadway next year in a stage play, Dog Day Afternoon. It's based on the same real life robbery that the 1975 movie Dog Day Afternoon was based on. You star with Jon Berthal, who is someone you co star with in the Bear. You were also on the show the Punisher with him. And I think you've done plays together. I actually read that you recommended him for the part of Michael on the Bear. Is that true?

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

Yeah, that's true. Yeah, I got John that job, so he got me this Dog Day Afternoon gig. So now, now we're even.

[Anne Marie Baldonado]

Well, so what? And you know, what was it about him that you thought would be good for Michael, who's the best friend and you know, the brother who passed away, who committed suicide.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

And we don't really see him, correct me if I'm wrong, but we don't really see him at all in the first season until maybe just the very end of the season in a flashback.

[Anne Marie Baldonado]

Is that correct? I think that's correct.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

Am I remembering that correctly? I think something like that. And in my mind when I was reading the scripts, I kind of felt like we would never see him. And I thought that that was probably the way to play it because he's so talked about. He's this specter sort of informing everything. And I just thought it would be disappointing, or maybe I just like that idea of let everybody in the audience, let them have their own idea of who this person is who's larger than life. And so when Chris Storr, our showrunner, was asking me if I thought if I had any ideas for who could be played Michael Burzado, I was like. I was like, I don't think we should ever see him. I just think that will just diminish because anything. And then at one point, I did. I was like, you know what? Actually, John is such a larger than life, magnetic, charismatic person. I was like, you know, what would you think about Jon Bernthal? And I suspect that Chris all along was sort of encouraging me to reach out to John. I think. I'm pretty sure that he. All along, he was just waiting for me to come to this realization. I think John's, you know, terrific. Really, really great in this part and also, like, one of the few actors that could fill the shoes of this guy.

[Anne Marie Baldonado]

What is your connection to the story and the film Dog Day Afternoon? Because you'll be playing the role of Sal, which was originated by the actor John Casale, who appeared in only five movies before passing away too young. But the five movies were the Godfather, the Conversation, Godfather Part 2, Dog Day Afternoon, and the Deer Hunter. He was also a theater actor, like an actor's actor. I was wondering if a young Evan Moss Backrack dreamed of having an acting career like John Cazale.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

Oh, 100%. I mean, what a gift. What an incredible gift he was. Yeah. The Conversation's like, probably my favorite movie. I mean, it's a tragedy that he died so young, but it is probably. Yeah. In his short time here. Oh, my gosh, what a force. So, yeah, I do feel, you know, it's like, I'll try to do my best to honor this guy, but we're gonna make it a bit. A bit different. Like something else.

[Anne Marie Baldonado]

Yeah. So it's based on the same source material, which was this true story of a bank robbery that happened in New York, and that became the movie, but the playwright is going back to that original material, too.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

Yeah, there's a lot of stuff going on in that robbery and before that robbery that's not in the movie. That's really interesting that we're digging into. There's a lot there.

[Anne Marie Baldonado]

When you announce something like that, a Broadway show that you're gonna do next year, what is the process of preparing? Because I'm sure you're doing other things, too. But is it just that that's sort of when it fits into your schedule, or do you do things in the year lead up or both?

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

My process right now is to pretend that it's not happening for as long as possible and to delay, delay, delay. But yeah, I don't know. I'm very, very, very excited to do this thing and to spend a few months with my dear friend John. And I'm sure it'll be a wonderful cast. And I like nothing more than, like, working on new American plays. It's kind of my favorite thing to do to be in that rehearsal room when the writer's there, the writer's alive, they're there. It's a work in progress. It's a deep, deep collaboration between writer, director, dramaturg and the whole cast. It's like everyone's getting their hands dirty. It feels very alive and exciting. And it's been a long time since I've done that.

[Anne Marie Baldonado]

Eben Moss Bachrach, thank you so much for joining us.

[Eben Moss Bachrach]

Thank you. Thanks so much for having me.

[Tanya Moseley]

Eben Moss Bachrach, Speaking with FRESH AIR's Anne Marie Baldonado. His film The Fantastic Four First Steps comes out next month, and season four of The Bear premieres tonight. After a short break, TV critic David Biancooley reviews a new documentary about Jayne Mansfield by her daughter, Mariska Hargitay. This is FRESH air. This is FRESH air. On Friday, HBO premieres a documentary film called My Mom Jane. It marks the directorial debut of law and SVU star Mariska Hargitay, who sets out in the film to learn about her mother, who died in a car accident when Mariska was three. Her mother was Jayne Mansfield, the famous movie star of the 1950s and 60s. Our TV critic David Biancooli says that My Mom Jane turns out to be much more intimate and full of genuine surprises than he expected.

[David Biancooli]

At the very start of My Mom Jane, producer and director Mariska Hargitay lays out the basic facts as she knows them about her parents, siblings and early childhood. She has only the vaguest memories of her mother, Jane Mansfield, the sex symbol, star of such films as the Girl Can't Help it and Will Success Spoil Rock Hunter. Jayne mansfield died in 1967 in a car crash at age 34, when Mariska, one of her mother's five children, was only three. She was raised by her father, who also was a celebrity of the 1950s. He was Mickey Hargitay, a former Mr. Universe. And to young Mariska, he was the only parent she ever really knew.

[Gillian Jacobs]

My dad, who was my rock, died in 2006 and there were so many questions that I never asked them. I've also never really talked to my siblings much about their experiences. But I want to understand her now because it's a part of my life and a part of me that's always felt locked away.

[David Biancooli]

One method Mariska Hargitay uses to unlock her family secrets is to do the research she had previously avoided. She reads celebrity tell all biographies and magazine articles and collects as many of the existing TV and movie appearances and recorded interviews as she could. Marischka's mother was raised in Texas, played classical piano and violin and spoke several languages. She married young and persuaded her then husband to move with her to Los Angeles to pursue her dream of a career in show business. He didn't last long and neither did their marriage. But Jayne Mansfield persisted and explained in an early interview how her plans for being a serious actress were affected by the way some people responded to her looks and especially to her very curvy figure.

[G]

I did a soliloquy from Joan of Arc for Milton Lewis, who was the head of casting at Paramount Studios in order to audition and he just seemed to think that I was wasting my, as he said, obvious talents. And he lightens my hair and tightens my dresses and listens to his own.

[David Biancooli]

In 1955, when she was only 22 years old, Jayne Mansfield became a Broadway sensation as the scene stealing co star of the comedy Will Success Spoil Rock Hunter? Movie roles followed quickly. First as the sexy star of the early rock and roll film the Girl Can't Help it, which also featured Little Richard and Fats Domino. Then in the movie version of Will Success Spoil Rock Hunter? Also in that film was Groucho Marx, who later welcomed Jane Mansfield to his TV show Tell it to Groucho. By that time she was trying to shake her sex symbol image. But as a clip from Groucho's show illustrates, even her strongest supporters couldn't resist perpetuating it.

[H]

Actually, and I've told this to other people, you're not the dumb blonde that you pretend to be. And I think the people ought to know that you're really a bright, sentimental and understanding person. And this is a whole, this is a whole facade of yours that isn't based on what you actually are.

[G]

Oh, that's sweet of you, thank you so much.

[H]

I think you're aware of that, Jane. This is a kind of an act you do, isn't it?

[G]

Oh, it's most people don't know that, though. I think that it's like this. The public pays money, the box office to see me a certain way, and.

[H]

They get their money's worth.

[G]

So I think it's just all part of the role I'm playing as an actress.

[David Biancooli]

My mom Jane is equally thorough about looking into Mickey Hargitay's past and how he and Jayne Mansfield met and fell in love. But after delving deeply into the public record of films, TV clips and vintage interviews, Mariska takes an even deeper dive into the private record. She interviews her brothers and sisters, who share detailed memories with her for the first time and who are invaluable contributors as both sources and on camera supporting characters. Mariska also examines the vast contents of a family storage locker that had remained unopened since 1969. And like the determined detective she's played on law and order SVU since 1999, Mariska follows the clues wherever they lead. Those clues include faces cut out of family photographs and stories about that fatal car crash, which it turns out was survived by the children in the car, including young Mariska. By the end of this documentary, the information she's uncovered upends and rewrites much of what Mariska Hargitay knew about her parents and herself. The first half of My Mom Jane is a somewhat standard, well done biography, but the second half shifts into a wild, emotional mystery story. Eventually there's a lot of hugging and a lot of closure and every bit of it is arrived at honestly. As a first time documentary filmmaker, Mariska Hargitay has done something special here. But as a daughter telling the unvarnished truth about her parents, she's done something even more impressive.

[Tanya Moseley]

David Biancooli is a professor of television studies at Rowan University. He reviewed the documentary My Mom Jane which premieres on HBO this Friday.

[G]

Our presidency said, and I agree that we must balance our economy. There are problems that we all must face and luxuries are out of place. Jfk, you're right, I'm joining in the fight. I don't want expensive treasures. I I prefer the simple pleasures like a Longfellow poem, a Cadillac brougham, a villa in Rome or in Spain. I'm just Lane Jane.

[David Biancooli]

Oh, Janie, you're just too marvelous.

[G]

I've no eyes.

[Tanya Moseley]

For Tomorrow on FRESH air, Pulitzer Prize winning fashion critic Robin Gavan joins us to discuss her new book, make It Ours Crashing the Gates of Culture with Virgil Abloh. She traces the late designer's unconventional path to luxury fashion, how he challenged tradition and opened once closed doors and why she believes he may be one of the last of his kind. I hope you can join us with Terry Gross. I'm Tonya Moseley.

[Gillian Jacobs]

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[Tanya Moseley]

The House of Representatives has approved a White House request to claw back two years of previously approved funding for public media. The rescissions package now moves on to. This move poses a serious threat to local stations and public media as we know it. Please take a stand for public media [e-mail] thank you.