Fela Kuti and the music of political resistance

Summary

Fresh Air: "Fela Kuti and the Music of Political Resistance"

Host: Terry Gross
Guest: Jad Abumrad, creator/host of "Fela Kuti. Fear No Man" podcast
Date: February 12, 2026

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Overview

In this episode, Terry Gross interviews Jad Abumrad about his podcast series exploring the life, music, and legacy of Fela Kuti, the Nigerian multi-instrumentalist and political activist widely regarded as the father of Afrobeat. Their conversation delves into the radical nature of Fela's music, his confrontation with colonial and postcolonial authority, his complicated personal legacy, and the continued power of art as resistance. Through music clips, personal stories, and historical context, the episode gives listeners insight into how Fela wielded art to challenge oppressive systems—and the personal costs and controversies that came with it.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Fela’s Musical Style and Political Power

• Building Trance and Meaning:
  • Jad Abumrad (02:43): Describes how Fela’s music constructs a trance-like groove with repeated, slowly layered instrumental loops before his vocals interrupt, addressing political topics and injustices.
    • "He would build the loop very, very slowly... And there's this moment where you stop wanting it to change and you just give in. Suddenly you fall out of time... And then he will break the trance and start singing... his voice drops on you like the voice of God. And he's talking about politics."
• Impact on Youth:
  • Fela’s message spread to a youth movement dangerous to authorities, leading to repeated state violence against him (04:41).
• Educational Vacuum:
  • Fela’s lyrics filled gaps left by a colonial education system that devalued African history (04:59).
    • "One of the patented moves of the colonial authorities is to remove the study of history... to create the sense... their culture has no value." – Jad

Notable Moment:

[07:59–08:22] Clips of "Authority Stealing" and "Zombie".
[08:22] Jad explains that "Zombie" openly mocks the Nigerian military as brainless, directly provoking state retaliation.

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2. Fela's Family & Early Influences: Fumilayo Ransome-Kuti

• Mother’s Role in Protest:
  • Fela’s mother, Fumilayo, evolved from teaching Christian values to organizing a massive women’s anti-tax protest, utilizing music as a weapon (09:24–14:09):
    • "10,000 women... encamped day and night at [the king's] palace... they sing, talk about music as a weapon. They sing these abuse songs to him... They're hilarious songs. Calling his manhood small, saying that they’re going to unleash a lake of fire... to overwhelm him." – Jad (10:46)
  • Women used nudity as a spiritual curse to pressure colonial/British authorities, leading to the King’s abdication—a precursor to the African independence movement.
• Erasure in Historical Memory:
  • Despite her leadership, she is often referred to primarily as Fela’s mother, with her own legacy under-recognized (14:16):
    • "She’s been reduced... it was wild to see the ways in which this incredible movement was kind of erased." – Jad

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3. The Kalakuta Republic: Fela’s Autonomous Zone

• Formation of the Shrine and Kalakuta Republic (15:36–17:47):
  • Fela built a "government-free zone" where art, community, and even recreational marijuana use flourished despite legal risk.
    • "To declare your compound a sovereign republic a year after a civil war... is kind of mind bogglingly insane and courageous." – Jad (17:47)
  • Became a hub for a disillusioned youth and artistic rebellion.

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4. The Cycle of Resistance and Retaliation in Music

• Answer Songs and Trickster Narratives:
  • Fela would continually create music in direct response to state persecution, e.g., "Kalakuta Show" details a raid as though reporting the news (18:49–20:16).
    • "It's almost like a news report... about a raid." – Jad

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5. Complicated Legacy: Fela and Women

• The "27 Wives" Controversy (22:06–26:53):
  • Fela married all his backup dancers/singers, interpreted variously as a PR stunt, retention tactic, or problematic display of power.
  • Interviewees both criticize and explain the women’s agency:
    • "His wives are trophies. When it came to women, he was just total..." – Interviewee (22:39)
    • "We wouldn't have Afrobeat... without the influx and the injection of the women’s creativity." – Interviewee (23:08)
  • The women interviewed by Jad insisted on their agency, each with unique reasons for joining Fela, from longing for travel to political engagement:
    • "They all insisted that they were there by choice... Some of them spoke about him with incredible fondness... He was an abuser at times, but also a liberator in a weird way." – Jad (24:58)

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6. FESTAC ’77: Political Tension and Catastrophe

• Nigeria’s Pan-African Festival (Festac) (26:53–30:05):
  • Meant to unite Black artists globally, but Fela objected to its government-led spectacle, demanding meaningful educational content and true inclusion of Nigerian artists. The committee refused.
    • "He had a nine point list... all about African pride and African history... the committee said no... And so he stormed out and he created... a counter festac." – Jad (28:14)
• Raid and Tragedy:
  • After Festac, a confrontation escalated to the military burning Fela’s compound and severe violence, including the near-fatal assault on his mother (30:05–31:17).

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7. Aftermath: Grief, Change, and Spirituality

• Personal Transformation (33:13):
  • After his mother’s death, Fela’s music became slower and more spiritual; he withdrew from overt political engagement.
    • "You begin to see that optimism or hope... ebb and you can hear it in the music." – Jad

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8. AIDS Denial and Public Mourning

• Fela denied AIDS existed, even after his diagnosis, but his children’s eventual public revelation helped open national discussion on AIDS in Nigeria (35:26–36:24).
  • "It becomes the first public discussion of AIDS in Nigeria and in much of Africa and leads to a lot of positive change." – Jad
• His funeral was a massive event, with up to millions attending—a testament to his cultural impact (36:43–37:20).

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9. Art under Oppression: Final Reflections

• Art as Resistance:
  • Terry and Jad draw parallels to modern America, expressing how oppression can reinvigorate the political power of music and art.
    • "There is some way in which these horrible times... do reinvest music with the power it should have had." – Jad (37:51)

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• "He would build the loop very, very slowly... as a listener, it can be quite monotonous. But then... you just give in. And suddenly you fall out of time."
  — Jad Abumrad (02:43)

• "If you imagine, 10,000 women from the markets encamped day and night at his palace, and he's trapped inside... and they would sing these abuse songs to him. Calling his manhood small, saying they’re going to unleash a lake of fire from their genitals..."
  — Jad Abumrad (10:46)

• "To declare your compound a sovereign republic a year after a civil war... it's kind of mind bogglingly insane and courageous to do it."
  — Jad Abumrad (17:47)

• "One of my favorite Fela trickster songs... is called Kalakuta Show... it's almost like a news report, like an eyewitness news report about a raid."
  — Jad Abumrad (18:49)

• "He did things that I think we would all condemn. And yet... he was an abuser at times, but also a liberator in a weird way."
  — Jad Abumrad (24:58)

• "When he died, Yeni and Femi initially were very reluctant to declare... that he died of AIDS. But they were eventually convinced... It becomes the first public discussion of AIDS in Nigeria..."
  — Jad Abumrad (35:45)

• "It completely shut down the city for days... an entire country coming together to mourn the loss of this one man."
  — Jad Abumrad (36:49)

• "There is some way in which these horrible times... do reinvest music with the power it should have had and should have all along."
  — Jad Abumrad (37:51)

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Key Timestamps

• 02:43 – The construction and political use of Fela’s music
• 07:59–08:22 – Music samples: "Authority Stealing" and "Zombie"
• 10:46 – Mother's women's protest movement and “abuse songs”
• 17:47 – Formation and audacity of the Kalakuta Republic
• 18:49 – "Kalakuta Show": art as real-time resistance
• 22:39–24:58 – The 27 wives: controversy, agency, and the women’s own words
• 26:53–28:14 – Festac: Fela’s demands and counter-festival
• 30:13–31:17 – Raid, burning of compound, assault on mother
• 33:13 – Aftermath: artistic and spiritual transformation
• 35:26–36:24 – AIDS denial, family’s decision, public reckoning
• 36:43–37:20 – Monumental public funeral

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Tone and Language

The episode balances admiration for Fela’s courage, artistry, and impact with candid acknowledgment of his contradictions and flaws. Both Terry Gross and Jad Abumrad speak with curiosity, honesty, and depth, leaning into complexity rather than easy mythologizing.

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Additional Note

The episode closes reminding listeners of the vast detail in Jad’s podcast series "Fela Kuti. Fear No Man," encouraging further exploration for a fuller understanding of Fela’s radical life and legacy.

Transcript

[Terry Gross]

Over the years at NPR's Fresh Air, we've gotten to talk with a lot of great filmmakers. Now we've made a playlist of some of our favorites, including Martin Scorsese, Steven Spielberg, Ava DuVernay, Mel Brooks, Spike Lee, Werner Herzog and others. Find all our new playlists and more at FRESH AIR. [e-mail] FRESH AIR this is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross. You may know my guest, Jad Abumrad. And as the creator and former host of the public radio program and podcast Radiolab, and the creator and host of the popular and Peabody Award winning nine episode podcast series Dolly Parton's America, Naujat has a terrific new series of episodes about the life and music of Fela Kuti. He's known as the father of Afrobeat, but music was also Fela's weapon against the colonial values that try to save civilize Nigerians, erase African culture and inflict punishment, often brutally, to keep Nigerians in line with Fela's danceable, almost trance like grooves and political lyrics, he started a youth movement that rebelled against the repressive post colonial government and military. For that, he was jailed about 100 times, beaten frequently, enduring multiple broken bones, leaving scars all over his body. The military breached the electric fence that protected his compound, threw his mother out a second story window and burned his home to the ground. He's also a problematic figure. He fashioned himself into what you might describe as a cult leader. He had 27 female backup singers and dancers and married all of them in one day. He didn't believe AIDS was real, advised men not to use condoms and and even wrote a song about it. And when he contracted aids, he denied that was possible. We'll talk about all that and how his music continues to get people listening and dancing and rebelling against injustice. Jad, welcome back to FRESH air. I really love this series and I really learned a lot from it. So thank you.

[Jad Abumrad]

Well, it's great to be here and that means a lot, Terry, thank you.

[Terry Gross]

You know, Felis music was it was dance music, it was trance music, and it was music that creates Afrobeat and it inspires a rebellious youth movement rebelling against colonial thinking, standing up against the authoritarian government, the police, the military. I'd like to ask you to describe those elements of his music.

[Jad Abumrad]

I mean, early on what he would do is he would build a loop slowly. You know, he would bring in the bass and then he'd bring in the congas and then he'd bring in the shaker and then he'd bring in the rhythm guitars. And Sometimes there were three or four rhythm guitars, 30 different people on stage. And he would build the loop very, very slowly. And as a listener, it can be quite monotonous. But then there's this moment where you stop wanting it to change and you just give in. And suddenly you fall out of time. And you could be listening for four minutes or four hours. You don't know. So there's an element of trance to his work. Then what will happen typically is at some point when you are deep in the trance, he will break the trance and start singing. And that can happen 15 minutes into a song. Suddenly his voice drops on you like the voice of God. And he's talking about politics. He's singing about all the injustices of postcolonial Africa. He's calling out dictators by name. He's giving sort of broad history lessons in pidgin English. And that created, you know, so many people I talked to in reporting this series talked about hearing that, that his voice. And it just woke them up, almost like woke them out of a slumber. And if you imagine that happening a million times, it created a youth movement that. That was very, very dangerous to the government. And as you say in your intro, he was beaten repeatedly, his house was burned down, his mother was thrown out of a window. Because he was able to use music, just music to. To fight back. So, yeah, and it's. It's groovy, it's funky, it's blending in jazz influences. He's got the sort of James Brown chicken scratch guitar influence. It's all of these things fused together in what he would ultimately call African classical music, but which started out as being named Afrobeat.

[Terry Gross]

Yeah. And part of the reason why his music made such a profound effect on young listeners was that this is stuff you weren't taught in school because the schools didn't emphasize or teach about African history or colonialism.

[Jad Abumrad]

Yeah, I mean, I think, Terry, it wasn't really. It wasn't Even until much later 20, that history was mandated to be taught in schools. It was always seen as a sort of superfluous subject. You know, our producer, Fei Fe Odudu, who we used, a field producer in Lagos after a lot of the interviews, would say, I had no idea, because history isn't really taught. And, you know, one of the sort of. One of the sort of patented moves of the colonial authorities is to remove the study of history as a way to create the sense in the subjects that their experience, their culture, has no value. And so the Long tail of that is still going.

[Terry Gross]

So here's what I'd like to do to give listeners who aren't familiar with Fela's music. I want to play something that's will show the repetition, the layering, and then segue into his most political song that got him into the most trouble, which is called Zombie. So to set it up, we're gonna start with Authority Stealing. And this will show you a very compressed version of the layering in his music. And imagine that. Imagine each of those layers spreading out for like five minutes each or more. And then we'll segue into Zombie. That was Authority stealing. And this is Fela's song Zombie.

[Various Interviewees]

Go and die. Go and quench.

[Jad Abumrad]

Go and kill.

[Terry Gross]

So that was two tracks, two separate tracks. Authority Stealing followed by Zombie. So tell us why Zombie was so important and dangerous.

[Jad Abumrad]

I guess every artist has their sort of anthem. And Fela Zombie is that that song came out in 1976. And this was at a time when he was getting into repeated clashes with the Authority. There was a few years prior there was a. The dictatorship, the military dictatorship, waged a war on indecency. And under that guise they would raid his compound repeatedly. And Zombie was really the thing that really escalated or caused the government to escalate, I should say. This was a song that, first of all, musically, it's just propulsive. It doesn't do the Fela thing that a lot of his songs do, where it builds slowly. This song just comes out of the gate 100 miles an hour. And when he sings, he sings about how the military and the army and the police are basically brainless zombies.

[Terry Gross]

So Fela grows up in a post colonial environment that still practices a lot of colonial values. His grandfather translated Anglican hymns into Yorba, the Yorba language. And Fela's mother and father had a school that basically followed the colonial education practices. And I want to talk a little bit about his mother, Fumalayo Ransome Kuti, because before Fela became political, she had a women's club which taught women Christian values. It had to be a good Christian wife. But then women from the market who sold fabric started coming and she realized they don't know how to read. So she organized a literacy class to teach them how to read. And through that she found out about the problems they were having, including the tax that the government had put on them that they couldn't afford to pay. And so she organizes this protest movement. Vela's mother organizes this tremendously powerful protest movement. Can you describe the movement?

[Jad Abumrad]

Yeah, this Is one of the aspects of the history that we dug into that was. That just is so fascinating. He would have been about eight or nine at this point. And he's going to these organizing meetings with his mother and the literacy club. It begins more as a sort of kind of ladies who lunch type of situation. Very quickly turns into a full fledged union. And that becomes thousands of women marching in the streets to protest the taxation policies of the British government. And the king, the alake, as he was called, who was backed by the British, and they essentially lay siege to his palace. So if you can imagine, 10,000 women from the markets basically encamped day and night at his palace, and he's trapped inside and he can't leave. And they sing, talk about music as a weapon. They sing these abuse songs to him. And we found hundreds of these songs in Fumalaya Ransom Kuti's archives that she had handwritten. She had phonetically spelled in English the Yoruba lyrics. And we got a choir to translate them and sing them for us. But they're hilarious songs. Calling his manhood small, saying that they're going to unleash a lake of fire from their genitals. Yeah, there you go. To overwhelm him. Really raunchy, hard hitting lyrics. And they would sing them one after the other. And fellow was with her, we think. And so it's interesting to think of his later music, that abuse singing that he would direct at the government. Maybe he learned it from her. But at a pivotal moment in the story of this protest movement, you have the British army amassed just outside town, and you have these, you know, thousands of women, and some number of them stand up and they strip naked, which in many traditions around the world, and certainly in West Africa, is a kind of spiritual curse or a hex of some sort. It's essentially sort of wielding the spiritual power of women against men. And any man that looks upon them is considered to be cursed. And so they stand up in this very defiant gesture. And the British, and we read the colonial diaries that were written at that time and letters that were flying back and forth. They were really scared that if they come in and meet that symbolic protest with actual violence, it would unleash forces that they could not control. And so they decide to basically sneak the king out of the palace and abdicate the throne. And so it is one of the first colonial revolts prior to the African independence movement that actually was successful. And in some small way, it seeded the ground for the African independence movement. And Fela was there.

[Terry Gross]

It's really a remarkable story. And did people remember the role that she played?

[Jad Abumrad]

Well, yes and no. You will find people who know the story. But more often than not, what we found is that people would refer to her simply as Fela's mother. So she has been reduced a bit because, I mean, I think this revolt is one of the great. I mean, it's one of the fiercest things I've ever encountered. And yet she just gets reduced to being the mother of this famous, consequential, but pop star. And one of the saddest moments in our reporting was we were very anxious to find her grave. And we found it on the backside of an Anglican church. And she's buried with her husband, Israel Ransom Cootie. But there's no mention of her. There's simply a long kind of litany of his accomplishments and there's no mention of what she did. And it was kind of wild to see the ways in which this incredible, incredible movement was kind of erased in a way.

[Terry Gross]

Once Fela starts really understanding more about what his music is about, he creates a club called the Shrine. And it's mobbed. I mean, once people hear his music, they want to hear more. And he creates what he calls the Calcutta Republic, which includes his compound. And by calling it the Calcutta Republic, it's basically a government free zone where people smoke marijuana even though there's like a steep penalty if you're caught. But it's his compound and it's his free space and they get away with it. How did he pull that off?

[Jad Abumrad]

I mean, he is a case study encouraged like no other. So I think part of it was just the chutzpah that he brought to the cause. I also think part of it was this is a moment after a brutal civil war that ended right about 1970, 1969. 70, where the Nigerian government basically starved an insurgent movement to try and secede from the. From the Biafran Republic. It was a horribly brutal war of starvation. And in the wake of that, I think there was a lot of disillusionment on the part of young people. There was kind of, as it was put to me, an eerie calm. And into that walks this guy. You know, as. As you have millions of young people looking for a new way, a new direction, in walks this guy with otherworldly confidence, making music that is just funky and danceable and trans. Inducing and amazing. And he becomes this instant magnet for lost souls and creates a compound. And almost overnight, hundreds of young people flock to him.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

And.

[Jad Abumrad]

And it's really hard to know how he got away with it, because to declare your compound a sovereign republic a year after a civil war when a whole republic tried to secede and that was met with brutal force, it's kind of mind bogglingly insane and courageous to do it. But it's really hard to know how he got away with it.

[Terry Gross]

So one of the things you point out in the podcast is that his songs got him into a lot of trouble. And what would happen is he'd write a song, then he'd be jailed or beaten for it. Then he'd write a song about being jailed or beaten or whatever was done to him. They'd punish him for that song and then he'd write a song about the punishment. So it was like answer songs to the military. They were writing answer songs to each other. Do you have a favorite example of that?

[Jad Abumrad]

You know, one of my favorite Fela Trickster songs, I think of them as trickster songs where he was sort of like playing tricks on the authority and then they'd come and raid him and then he'd make a song about the raid and then they'd raid him again. One of them is called Kalakuda Show. I believe this was 1974. It's not only like a really great, really funky song, but if you listen to the lyrics, it's almost like a news report, like an eyewitness news report about a raid.

[Terry Gross]

So let's hear a Calicuta show, Too.

[Jad Abumrad]

Now.

[Various Interviewees]

So with the See I'm Every day that's all you. They happen every day. One day. One day Saturday Morning Change One day 5am One day November 2020 Change One day 1974 One day Kalakuta show that.

[Terry Gross]

Was Fela Kuti, his song Kalakuta Show. Okay, we have to take a short break here and then we'll get back to my interview with Jad Abumrad, the creator and host of the new series Fela Kuti. Fear no Man. I'm Terry Gross and this is FRESH air.

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[Terry Gross]

So here's where Feylo loses me. He puts together a group of fantastic women dancers and backup sing. And that's part of the reason why people want to see him perform, because it means seeing these women sing and dance and their elaborate makeup and face paint and costumes. But he eventually marries 27 of them in one day. I want to play an excerpt from the podcast in which several people talk about how they felt about the 27 wives.

[Jad Abumrad]

His wives are trophies. When it came to women, he was just total.

[Terry Gross]

There are pictures of him sitting in his underwear, and he's sitting there with kind of oil on his body and the women are surrounding him.

[Jad Abumrad]

Everything about it just looks like a throwback. The fact that he violated women, he broke laws.

[Various Interviewees]

These women, young women, girls and women, were with Felakuti and living in Kalakuta Republic.

[Terry Gross]

They know, but they don't want to talk about it.

[Various Interviewees]

There was all of this moral controversy about what these women's relationship with Fela was. Just this speculation alone produced controversy. And then there were court cases that amplified publicity for Fela's work. Like, that's my point. We wouldn't have Afrobeat music, the phenomenon that it became, without the influx and the injection of the women's creativity and their passion and their voices.

[Terry Gross]

What do you make of that?

[Jad Abumrad]

I mean, it's really Fela's relationship with women is hard to wrap your mind around. All I can say is that it was very important for us when we were reporting this series to speak with those women. And by the way, I mean, I see that particular marriage as a PR stunt and also kind of as an HR move, because he was bleeding talent at that moment. This was after the house was burned down. A lot of his band were like, this is ridiculous. We're out. A lot of his backup dancers were coming to the same conclusion. And so I think the idea of marrying them was as much about trying to make sure people don't leave as it was anything else. That's not to excuse it at all. But I see that much more as a stunt and as an act of desperation, frankly.

[Terry Gross]

So you spoke to, I think, a couple of the women who used to Be in the band and married to him. And one of them said he didn't marry the women. He married the women to his band, which is like what you were saying. What else did you hear from the women you spoke to who had been in his band and married to him?

[Jad Abumrad]

Yeah, we spoke to three of the four that are still alive, as far as we can tell. And what was really interesting is that they all insisted that they were there by choice. However we might judge them, they did not want to be seen as political objects. Each of them got there for their own reasons. One of them, Laide, wanted to travel and see the world. She'd always dreamed of being an air hostess, and there was no way for her to be that. But along comes this guy who is traveling, and it does allow her to see the world. Another Lara wanted to fight back politically, and this was the only guy doing that. A third person, Chinieri, talked about how in. In Nigeria, you have an amalgam of ethnic groups and an incredible amount of tension. That's what led to the civil war. And one of the rules of Fela's compound was that there can be no ethnicity. You cannot refer to each other as Yoruba or Igbo. You're simply people. And that was why she went there. So each of them had a reason. And as they spoke about him, they acknowledged some of the excess. But they also spoke about him with incredible fondness. And that was a. That was complicated. It was complicated to hear that. That, you know, he did things that I think we would all condemn. And yet the feeling I had leaving was that he was partially. He was an abuser at times, but also a liberator in a weird way. You have to kind of understand him as being both at once. That's certainly the picture that they painted.

[Terry Gross]

So we have to talk about Festac. Festac was supposed to be a joyous festival, basically, I think, like uniting black people from around the world.

[Jad Abumrad]

Yeah, it was sort of the. If you imagine Woodstock. But thinking of it as a cultural festival focused on the sort of diaspora. Nigeria at that point was flush in oil money. And they wanted to sort of come out as the center of the black world. And so they invited Stevie Wonder, Sun.

[Various Voices (News/Announcements)]

Ra.

[Jad Abumrad]

Lorde, all of these different cultural icons from every different discipline to come together in Lagos for an extended cultural festival. And it's one of those. It's one of the most amazing gatherings. And it's really hard to summarize because it was so many things at once. It was beautiful and joyful. It was Also kind of a sham. There was a ton of fraud, but.

[Terry Gross]

And this festival of joy is run.

[Jad Abumrad]

By a dictator, and it's run by a dictator for, I think, what some would say, the wrong reasons.

[Terry Gross]

So Faler was put on the planning committee and then he made a list of demands. Tell us about a couple of the demands.

[Jad Abumrad]

Yeah, he had a nine point list that he presented to the committee. I think the committee brought him on because they really couldn't not have him on it. He was the most popular Nigerian musician, most popular African musician at that point. So they had to include him in some way. He comes in and basically says, here are the nine things I need to be in place if I'm going to participate. One of them was to feature Nigerian artists. Another was to create a kind of educational curriculum around festac that was all about African pride and African history. There were all of these things that were basically around educating the people, not simply making this a good time, a good dance party, but let's actually make this an educational teaching moment about sort of African history. And of course, the committee said, no, we just want you to play. And so he stormed out and he created, very famously, a counter festac so that as festac was happening across town, he would play every night at the shrine. And, you know, if you are a black intellectual or a black musician at this moment and you're coming to Nigeria, the person you want to see is Fela Kuti. And so you had all of these people coming to the shrine. They had been flown in on the government's dime and they were suddenly going to Fela's shrine where he was talking badly about the government. So from the dictator's point of view, this was beyond enraging. And it was only a day or two after the festival closed that you had this incredibly violent conflict between Fela and the authorities. And many people that we spoke to point to that moment as a turning point, not just for Fela Kuti, but for Nigeria as a country.

[Terry Gross]

So what's the short version of how Fela's counter festival to Festaq led to the burning of his house?

[Jad Abumrad]

The short version is that a few days after the festival closed, one of Fela's boys, one of the area boys, as they were called, gets into a minor traffic conflict with a policeman. He flees to Fela's compound. The policeman chases him. This leads to a standoff. Fast forward. There are hundreds and then a thousand soldiers surrounding the compound. Apparently, Fela gets on top of the roof and he plays zombie down at the police on his saxophone. And they fly into a rage. They pour gasoline over everything and they basically burn the house to the ground. And they storm the compound while it's burning. And some pretty awful things happen because a lot of fellas, wives were inside the compound at that point. There was some very upsetting sexual violence that occurs. And that really was kind of the end of a certain era of Fela's career.

[Terry Gross]

The military threw his mother during this raid out a second story window. Amazingly, she survived, first in a coma, and she was never herself again. She died a year later. It's so horrible to think about. And Faler wrote a song that's basically about his mother and being thrown out the window. So I want to play an excerpt of that. It's called Unknown Soldier.

[Various Interviewees]

Them kill my mama Them carry everybody Them carry everybody.

[Terry Gross]

So that was Fela doing his song Unknown Soldier, about his mother being thrown out the second story window by the military who raided the compound and burned Fela's home down. So after his mother dies, it transforms him. He misses her so much. She was the person who really supported his vision of change. And like you said earlier, he lost a lot of his following because people didn't want to be exposed to this kind of brutality, death. And his music changed. He became more spiritual. His music became more spiritual or ambient. I don't know how you'd describe it exactly.

[Jad Abumrad]

I'd say slower, you know, slower and heavier. Yeah.

[Terry Gross]

What kind of spirituality did he pursue?

[Jad Abumrad]

You know, from somebody who was so outward looking and so intensely political? He kind of turned inward. And what you hear in his music, it's much more story based. You know, he would tell stories of ordinary people, you know, but the spiritualism became almost a kind of occult spiritualism. He began to believe that he could communicate with his deceased mother through some of the women that lived with him. So they would hold kind of seances where he would talk to his mom through her. It really was a spiritualism born, I think, of grief. And increasingly he let go of the. I mean, it took a while, so I don't want to say it was instantaneous, but he began to turn away from politics entirely. And that sort of fierce optimism or hope or whatever you call it, you begin to see that ebb and you can hear it in the music.

[Terry Gross]

Well, let's take a break here. If you're just joining us, my guest is Jad Abumrad. We're talking about his new podcast, limited series about the father of Afrobeat, the Nigerian musician Fela Kuti. It's called Fela Fear no, man. We'll be right back. This is FRESH air.

[Various Voices (News/Announcements)]

Another funding deadline in Congress, another partial shutdown could be on the way. How far will Democrats go in their fight for changes to immigration enforcement? Plus, Congress can now see the unredacted Epstein files. We're watching for signals of what they learn, the stories you need to know to start your day every morning on up first listen on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts on.

[Wait Wait Host]

Wait, wait, don't tell me. It's not so much we get to talk to celebrities, it's that we get to talk to celebrities about other celebrities, like we did with actor Nathan Lane. I remember having to tell George C. Scott that I was leaving the show to do this musical, and he said to me, you're leaving me to do a magic show. Listen to Wait, Wait in the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Terry Gross]

Another place where failure really loses me. He's an AIDS denier. You know, AIDS is kind of raging in Africa at the time, and he doesn't believe it's real. And then he contracts AIDS himself and won't admit that he has it.

[Jad Abumrad]

Yeah, it is upsetting. But, you know, if there's a silver lining in that particular anecdote, I mean, you have to dig a little bit to get to it. When he died, Yeni and Femi initially were very reluctant to declare to the public that he died of aids. But they were eventually convinced to sort of come out and say this was aids. It becomes the first public discussion of AIDS in Nigeria and in much of Africa and leads to a lot of positive change. So even while he denied it himself, that information about him was used, I think, for mostly positive impact.

[Terry Gross]

So his children weren't, his oldest children weren't sure whether they should have a big public funeral or not because he had lost a lot of his popularity and, you know, he died of aids. So they decide finally to hold a big funeral and like tens of thousands of people show up.

[Jad Abumrad]

Yeah, I mean, reports are anywhere from 200,000 to 2 million.

[Terry Gross]

Wow. That much?

[Jad Abumrad]

Yeah. It completely shut down the city for days. And a massive crowd marches from Teffalobo, Lewa Square, where there was a wake, to the shrine where the family was paying their last respects, and then to where he's now buried. And there's footage of this on YouTube. It's really kind of an amazing thing to behold even from afar, the idea that this is a people's burial, this is an entire country coming together to mourn the loss of this one man.

[Terry Gross]

Your series made me think about how art in some ways has a lot more power in authoritarian governments that want to ban art. Because when something is taboo and you're not allowed to hear it, creating it and hearing it are very subversive acts.

[Jad Abumrad]

Yeah.

[Terry Gross]

Like in America, in the US we're maybe heading in that direction.

[Jad Abumrad]

Yeah. I mean, you know, you and I are having this conversation the day after the super bowl and Bad Bunny, you know, gets out there and he's, he ends his performance marching with people holding a series of flags from South America. And I and everybody that was watching teared up because it was such a simple but powerful statement given what's happening in Minnesota. And there is some way in which these horrible times, just to state it plainly, do reinvest music with the power it should have had and should have all along. And so I take that with me, that the art that we create, the culture that we create, it matters. It's not just a thing that we use to escape and to divert our attention, but it can actually do something real in the world.

[Terry Gross]

Well, it's been great to talk with you, Jet. Thank you so much and congratulations on the series. And I want to say to our listeners, we covered several aspects of Fela's life in this interview, but there's really so much more and so much fascinating detail that we couldn't possibly fit into one less than an hour episode when Jed's series is what, 12 episodes?

[Jad Abumrad]

Yeah. It's quite a deep dive, but worth it, I hope.

[Terry Gross]

To me, certainly. So thank you so much. It's been a pleasure to talk with you again.

[Jad Abumrad]

Yeah, thank you so much, Terry, for having me on.

[Terry Gross]

Jad Abumrad's new podcast is called Fela Kuti. Fear no man. After we take a short break, we reluctantly say goodbye to our long term executive producer, Danny Miller. He's retiring. This is FRESH air.

[Jad Abumrad]

Can a superstar be an actual voice of resistance? When it comes to the singer Bad.

[Terry Gross]

Bunny, some say yes.

[Jad Abumrad]

Bad Bunny comes out of a long legacy of Puerto Rican music and Puerto Rican art as resistance. Listen to NPR's Code Switch in the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Terry Gross]

In FRESH AIR history. Our longtime executive producer Danny Miller is retiring. We've been celebrating how he's led the show through good times and hard times and what he's done professionally and personally for each of us who's ever been part of the FRESH AIR team. But we're all so sad he's leaving. I'd like to take a moment to speak personally about what Danny means to me. Fresh AIR started as a local program on WHYY in Philadelphia back in 1975 when I became the host. It was a live three hour show five days a week, and the staff was me. In 1978, when Danny applied to be an intern on the show, he was studying film and music therapy at Temple University and was the pianist in a local salsa band. I interviewed him for the intern position and we hit it off. He bummed a cigarette from me and I was happy to give him one since I had bummed cigarettes each time I had tried to quit. As we talked, we realized we shared a sense of humor. We both loved and listened to a lot of jazz and liked a lot of the same movies, most especially Taxi Driver. It was clear we'd have similar judgment in who we should book on the show. You know the expression that if you're an intern, make yourself indispensable? Danny managed to do that pretty immediately, recommending guests, booking guests, organizing things. He even invited me over to dinner and served what I like to think of as baked eggplant a la sponge. But I forgave him for that. Now he's a good cook, famous, among other things for his chicken soup. I remember we drove together to the bar at an inn in the Poconos so I could record an interview with the pianist John Coates for NPR to use in its concert program Jazz Alive before driving there. When Danny and I met at the radio station, he showed up in a bright yellow sports jacket that was also too large. It made me wonder, maybe I misjudged his sensibility until I realized he'd pranked me to see how I'd react and then put on his real jacket. After he graduated, our then station manager, Bill Siemering, understood how indispensable Danny was, and he kept managing to find hidden money to hire Danny part time and eventually full time as a producer. When Fresh AIR became a national show in 1987, Danny became its executive producer. There were so many changes we had to make in the show. And then we faced so many changes in the world, all of which Danny led us through. This included the first Gulf War, 9, 11, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, political crises. He became a father not long after we went national, and at the time, he was the only parent working on the show. As time went on and there were many more Fresh Air babies, Danny typically managed to come up with ways for them to stay on the show while still being good parents. He built in a measure of flexibility, like sharing a position with another new parent from our team, allowing each of them to work half time. When it came to what we broadcast on the show, Danny was the final word about what we actually put on the air. He always made sure we were being fair to the guest and the subject at hand. He was never a prude about what language our guests could use on the show, but he was prudent and always knew when to call someone for legal advice. In addition to all that, he was like the Fresh Air family therapist. We all brought our problems to him, and he always did his best to help solve them, even when it meant more work for him, which it typically did. He made a lot of personal sacrifices to keep things running as smoothly as possible, including working lots of nights and weekends over many years. To me, Danny is more than a great executive producer. I think of him as a brother, and I will continue to think of him that way now that he's leaving the show. It's a strange time for me. Danny became an intern in January 1978. Just a few weeks later, I started seeing my future husband, Francis Davis. Francis died in April, and now, just a few months later, Danny is retiring. That's a lot to process. I won't get to see Danny and work with him every day, but that won't mean he's absent from my life. I plan on scheduling many future dinners with him. We at Fresh Air are also extraordinarily lucky that Sam Brigger is taking over as our executive producer, a role he'd already started while Danny stayed on to help with the transition. I'm positive there is no one better in the world to take on the role. Sam has been part of the Fresh Air team for about 21 years. During those years, his first child was born. That son is now in college. Sam knows the show inside out, having worked as an associate producer, our book interview producer and managing producer. He's smart, funny, and a good musician. He's wise and calm even when there's a crisis, and everyone on our show loves him. And who else at One of our end of the year holiday potlucks would have made a gift for Danny of a Lego version of a climactic moment in Taxi Driver. So I don't want to hog the mic any further because everyone on our show wants a chance to thank Danny. Fresh Air's new executive producer is Sam Brigger.

[Jad Abumrad]

Wait, he's not going on vacation? I thought he was going on vacation. Danny, don't let us miss you too much. Come back real soon.

[Terry Gross]

Fresh Air's technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham. Danny, we love you so much. Don't leave us with Sam. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers. And you left us with Sam. We'll be in really good hands. See you around the hood. Anne Marie Boldonado.

[Jad Abumrad]

Dani, we're gonna miss you so much. But I'm here to say some people come back.

[Terry Gross]

Lauren Krenzel. Come back to see us, Dani, soon and often. Theresa Madden. Dani, I'll miss seeing your tiny little lunches. Monique Nazareth.

[Various Voices (News/Announcements)]

Dani, I've truly loved working with you all these years. Thank you for everything and enjoy retirement.

[Terry Gross]

Thea Chaloner. Danny, I'll miss your snacks. I'll miss our talks. Susan Yakundi.

[Jad Abumrad]

Thanks for everything, Danny.

[Terry Gross]

We'll miss you in the office, but.

[Jad Abumrad]

Hope to see you around the neighborhood soon.

[Terry Gross]

Anna Bauman.

[Jad Abumrad]

Thank you for all the mugs with our faces on it. Thank you, Dani.

[Terry Gross]

And Nico Gonzalez. Whistler. Thanks for everything, Dani, we'll miss you. Our digital media producer is Molly Seavey Nesper. Dani, I will always associate razor blades with you.

[Jad Abumrad]

Not in a murder way.

[Terry Gross]

Roberta Shorrock directs the show. Gonna miss you, Danny. Our co host is Tanya Moseley.

[Jad Abumrad]

You better take teams off of your computer and go on a real vacation. Happy retirement, Danny.

[Terry Gross]

I'm Terry Gross.