Josh O'Connor takes the lead in 'Disclosure Day'

Summary

---

Fresh Air (NPR) — June 11, 2026

Guest: Josh O’Connor
Host: Tonya Mosley
Main Focus: Josh O’Connor on starring in Steven Spielberg’s “Disclosure Day,” his distinctive approach to acting, and reflections on past roles.

---

Episode Overview

This episode features a wide-ranging conversation between Tonya Mosley and British actor Josh O’Connor, who headlines Steven Spielberg’s new film “Disclosure Day.” The discussion covers O’Connor’s shift from intimate indie films to blockbuster productions, his acting process, memorable roles (notably Prince Charles in “The Crown”), and personal experiences shaping his craft — including his dyslexia and artistic family roots.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Taking the Lead in “Disclosure Day”

• Film Premise: O’Connor plays Daniel, a cybersecurity expert who unearths proof of alien life and debates sharing it globally (02:25).
• First Blockbuster Experience:
  • O’Connor describes heightened secrecy around the project, including reading the script delivered by a motorbike courier, and returning it immediately due to security measures (03:00–04:14).
  • Quote: “Not being able to tell anyone you’re doing a Steven Spielberg film is difficult.” — Josh O’Connor (04:00)
• Set Atmosphere Compared to Indies:
  • Despite the film’s scale, O’Connor says Spielberg keeps an intimate, collaborative atmosphere, akin to indie films (04:31–05:51).
  • Quote: “He kind of keeps his set small. It feels like a sacred space for performance.” — Josh O’Connor (05:24)

2. Blending Restraint with Wonder

• Balancing Spielberg’s Maximalism with Subtlety:
  • O’Connor, known for reserved characters, found Spielberg values nuanced, intimate performance despite cinematic spectacle (06:19).
  • Quote: “Stephen has that too—he’s interested in wonder, and…childlike curiosity.” — Josh O’Connor (07:31)
• Crafting Daniel’s Interior World:
  • O’Connor created a “scrapbook” (really, a sprawling crime-scene wall of drawings) to map the character’s emotional memories, echoing “Close Encounters of the Third Kind” (08:13–10:51).

3. Process and Collaboration

• The Importance of Director Notes:
  • O’Connor recounts receiving an accidental but pivotal text from Spielberg — “the door is on the latch, just push” — which unlocked an emotional scene for him (11:03–13:37).
  • Quote: “It’s genius. It’s beautiful. It’s poetical.” — Josh O’Connor (12:34)

4. Portraying Prince Charles in ‘The Crown’

• Initial Reluctance & Method:
  • O’Connor initially refused the role due to republican beliefs, but was drawn in by Peter Morgan’s framing of Charles’ existential paradox (17:21).
  • Quote: “Here is a character who is waiting for his mother to die in order for his life to take meaning.” — Josh O’Connor on Peter Morgan’s pitch (18:16)
• Physicality:
  • Built Charles “from the body first,” studying posture and protective gestures (21:06–21:49).
• Character Residue:
  • Discusses lingering traces after intense roles — e.g., wearing character’s suit for a year, physical discomfort from Charles’ stoop, and the “grief” when parting from roles (22:44–24:07).

5. Immersion in ‘God’s Own Country’

• Method Approach:
  • Lived and worked on a Yorkshire farm prior and during filming for authenticity (24:47–26:20).
  • Quote: “There’ll be days where I’d be filming… and John would be waiting at the barn door… ‘Get back to work.’” — Josh O’Connor (26:42)
• Reflections on Practice:
  • While uncomfortable with being labeled a “method” actor, values accessing the “spiritual” dimension of roles — citing Daniel Day-Lewis, Philip Seymour Hoffman, and others as influences (27:45–28:44).
• On Pursuit Over Arrival:
  • “It’s less about an arrival. It’s more about the pursuit.” (28:54)

6. On Dyslexia and Learning Differences

• Early Struggles:
  • Detailed memories of feeling different in school, misconceptions about dyslexia, and a pivotal teacher’s analogy about divergent thinking (31:24–33:48).
  • Quote: “It might take me a longer period… but I’m experiencing much more… seeing much more.” — Josh O’Connor (33:26)

7. Roots and Artistic Heritage

• Family Background:
  • Raised in Cheltenham, mother a midwife, father an English teacher, and a pivotal grandmother who was a ceramicist (33:58–34:33).
• Ceramics as Connection:
  • Describes sensory memories of his grandmother’s studio and current personal interest in pottery and making things (35:12–36:09).

8. Looking Forward: Self and Balance

• O’Connor expresses desire for time grounded in home life, crafts, family, and being “Josh” — a shift after years of intense professional focus (36:29–37:50).
  • Quote: “There’s just a feeling of excitement around being me for a little bit.” (37:47)

---

Memorable Quotes

| Timestamp | Quote | Speaker | |-----------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------| | 04:00 | “Not being able to tell anyone that you’re doing a Steven Spielberg film is difficult.” | Josh O’Connor | | 05:24 | “He kind of keeps his set small. It feels like a sacred space for performance.” | Josh O’Connor | | 07:31 | “Stephen has that too—he’s interested in wonder, and…childlike curiosity.” | Josh O’Connor | | 12:34 | “It’s genius. It’s beautiful. It’s poetical.” (on Spielberg’s accidental note) | Josh O’Connor | | 18:16 | “Here is a character who is waiting for his mother to die in order for his life to take meaning.” | Josh O’Connor | | 26:42 | “There’ll be days… I’d be filming… and John would be waiting at the barn door… ‘Get back to work.’” | Josh O’Connor | | 28:54 | “It’s less about an arrival. It’s more about the pursuit.” | Josh O’Connor | | 33:26 | “It might take me a longer period… but I’m experiencing much more…seeing much more.” | Josh O’Connor | | 37:47 | “There’s just a feeling of excitement around being me for a little bit.” | Josh O’Connor |

---

Notable Moments & Timestamps

• First script delivery/Spielberg secrecy: 03:00–04:14
• On Spielberg’s directing style: 04:31–05:51
• Scrapbooking/character-building for ‘Disclosure Day’: 08:13–10:51
• Spielberg’s accidental but pivotal text note: 11:03–13:37
• Embodied physicality of Prince Charles: 21:06–21:49
• Working and living on the farm for “God’s Own Country”: 24:47–26:20
• The “grief” of leaving roles and lingering traits: 22:44–24:07
• Reflections on dyslexia and learning: 31:24–33:48
• Describing his grandmother’s studio and impact: 35:12–36:09
• On seeking a more balanced personal life: 36:29–37:50

---

Tone and Style

Throughout, the tone is thoughtful, self-effacing, and gently humorous. O’Connor comes across as deeply reflective, passionate about craft, and candid about challenges — especially the emotional cost and spiritual pursuit inherent to his acting.

---

For Listeners

This episode offers a nuanced look at the challenges and mysteries of acting at its highest level, the quirks of major film secrecy, and the ways personal histories and differences inform artistic work. O’Connor’s humility and depth illuminate his performances, whether as a blockbuster lead or in the most intimate indie films.

---

Transcript

[Announcer]

This message comes from Capella University. That spark you feel, that's your drive.

[Josh O'Connor]

For more.

[Announcer]

Capella University's Flexpath learning format lets you earn your degree at your pace without putting life on pause. Learn more at capella. Edu.

[Tonya Mosley]

This is FRESH air. I'm Tonya Moseley and my guest today is actor Josh o'. Connor. Many of us first came to know o' Connor as a young Prince Charles and the Netflix series the Crown as a charming washed up tennis player in Challengers and the young priest in the latest Knives out film. But for a significant portion of his career, he's also worked in independent film, including the British drama God's Own Country. This summer, he turns up somewhere different as the lead in Steven Spielberg's latest blockbuster, Disclosure Day. It's Spielberg's return to the question that gave us Close Encounters of the Third Kind and ET Are we alone? O' Connor plays a cybersecurity expert who gets hold of the government's proof that aliens are among us and decides the rest of the world has a right to see the evidence. In this scene we're about to hear, oconnors character Daniel has just shown the woman he's seeing, played by Eve Hewson, video proof.

[Josh O'Connor]

There's more, 79 years more. There have been retrieval programs of exotic craft, interrogation of non human biologics, reverse engineering and technology exploitation, all of it run by Wardex, the Department of Defense and the defense industry. It has the highest level of military and private sector classification in American history. They've run it since the early 70s without government funding, too many tax dollars to try and hide. And off world artifacts are too profitable to leave in the hands of appointed officials, especially after the Nixon thing. Presidents are civilians again after eight years, so there's no longer a reason to read them in on any of this. I was a part of all that until I saw what you just saw. This all stops now.

[Announcer]

What are you gonna do?

[Josh O'Connor]

Full disclosure to the whole world all at once.

[Tonya Mosley]

Disclosure Day, which also stars Emily Blunt, Colman Domingo and Colin Firth, builds on the very real folklore of a government cover up, Roswell, crop circles and people who say they've recovered memories of UFO encounters. Josh o', Connor, welcome to FRESH air.

[Josh O'Connor]

Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.

[Tonya Mosley]

The details of this film, as I mentioned, kind of like cloak and dagger even for you. When you received the script, there's this funny story that you tell. What's the story?

[Josh O'Connor]

Well, yeah, I mean, I suppose, you know, it's I imagine this happens an awful lot in kind of big blockbuster movies, certainly with the likes of Spielberg and George Lucas and those greats. But for me, it was the first time I'd experienced this level of secrecy. And I mean, I met Stephen. Stephen and I met sort of three or four months prior to me actually receiving the script. But when it came, it was like I was shooting Knives out. And I just remember there was a kind of a motorbike turned up. There was an envelope. I had to read the script and then hand the envelope back to the guy on the motorbike. Thankfully for the motor motorcyclist, I read it really quickly. Normally I'm a very slow reader. I have dyslexia, but I, I managed to get through it pretty speedily. And that's down to David Koepp's brilliant writing, Stephen's great storytelling. But it was terrific. And yeah, and the secrecy around it is bizarre. Not being able to tell anyone that you're doing a Steven Spielberg film is difficult.

[Tonya Mosley]

You mentioned maybe this happens for all blockbuster films, but you, this is your first real blockbuster film. You've spent most of your career in these kind of small, quiet films. What was it like to walk on a set, a Spielberg set of this size?

[Josh O'Connor]

Well, you know, the strange thing is that I suppose the trappings of a movie like this, and again, you know, this is from limited experience, obviously, but the trappings are different. But the reality is the actual, the day to day making of a movie, the collaborative nature of making a movie is pretty much exactly the same. And I think that's, I don't know if that's solely a Stephen thing. I mean, I think he, he ultimately he is the filmmaker's filmmaker. You know, he's, he's always been around cameras and storytelling. And so I think at the heart of his process, it's just, it's the same method. It's, you know, how do we emote, how do we look at the empathy, how do we portray this story in the best possible way? And so it's really strange. I think he kind of keeps his set small. It feels like a sacred space for performance. And he really cares about actors and performance. And so, yeah, he's kind of adopted that atmosphere that feels honestly the same as making a quiet indie somewhere remote. You know.

[Tonya Mosley]

You know, what's interesting is so many of your characters are quiet characters. They live in what's not said. It's what you bring out. You pull off restraint so well. And Spielberg has this reputation, not every film, but many of his films, of being a maximalist there's the wonder and the awe and this feeling of being out front. How did those two sensibilities meet in a room?

[Josh O'Connor]

I think, like, you know, I started in the theater, and that was really my. My love of acting, of performing was. Came from the theater. And the theater really as an art form, you know, you can tell a lot, of course, with your. With your face, but really there is an element of, like, your. Your. Your language is your body and your language are the words. And so for me, that the voyage of discovery of film came when I started making them. And, you know, I didn't necessarily have a language or an understanding or a way of articulating film growing up. So that language was like something I learned through doing. And one of the things you learn is that it's such an intimate art form. You know, working with a camera, you can tell so much with your eyes in a way that you maybe can't on stage. And so I guess that's. That sort of happened naturally. And I. But, well, and also I think I now appreciate quiet films. I think that they're sort of my. That would be my taste at the moment. I like a contemplative, but I enjoy that. But I think Stephen has that too. As you rightly say, he's interested in wonder, and he's interested in the kind of childlike curiosity to a subject.

[Tonya Mosley]

This character, I mean, he is the hero, but he's not a traditional lead man in a blockbuster. You built men you portray so specifically. I read that you actually make a scrapbook for almost every character. Did you make one for this particular character, Daniel?

[Josh O'Connor]

Yeah, I did. I mean, it took a slightly different form. I mean, the scrapbook thing comes right back from when I made God's Own Country. So it was a good, like 12, maybe 12 years ago now. And I. The director of that film, Francis Lee, was really kind of formative for me in terms of what my method was, how I wanted to work. I think I was still figuring that out. And one of the things that we did together was to create this sort of. You call it a scrapbook or a kind of character bible, a kind of a manual for how to access this character's memory. So if you're sort of struggling with a scene, trying to get into the psychology of this fictional character, it's like, well, let's look at this scrapbook. Let's look at the character bible. Let's choose a memory that we've. We've created together that we can. That can kind of help us access Something. So I've used it for pretty much every character I've played since. But. But the form of this one was slightly different because I. We were shooting here in New York and I had an apartment on Manhattan. And the day I moved into the apartment to start pre production, I had this huge wall and I just started sketching images. I mean, I. I had this idea that Daniel had a sort of memory somewhere lodged in the kind of recesses of his mind of visions he'd had when he was a child. And so these charcoal drawings became a kind of obsession in. And. And. And in no small part, kind of inspired by the character in Close Encounters. You know, someone who uses art to understand their minds in some ways. And so I did a lot of that and I put them up on the wall. And then I think I. I invited Eve Hewson over for. For dinner to meet her and to chat about the film. And she walked in and she looked so mortified by this quite alarming wall with which had string. It looked like a. Like a crime scene. And so we. I very quickly took that down. So it is in a scrapbook. But it wasn't supposed to be a scrapbook. It's supposed to be a kind of like crime scene wall. Yes, but, yeah, it exists. They sort of live and die with the film.

[Tonya Mosley]

You talked about getting a note from Spielberg that unlocked this whole role for you, except it turned out that he hadn't actually meant to send it to you. Will you tell us what happened?

[Josh O'Connor]

Yeah, I've been telling the story, but I feel bad telling it because in some ways it plays out. It was the perfect. It was one of the greatest notes I've ever received. And I feel bad it being an accident because it makes Stephen sound like, you know, the greatest note I ever received was by accident. He also gave fantastic notes on purpose. But. So I'll just preface it with that. You know, Stephen and I would have these conversations every day, really, about the scene we, you know, in front of us, but also looking ahead in the schedule and going, okay, we've got this moment coming up. Like, let's talk about that. Let's try and analyze that. And Stephen makes himself so available for those conversations, which is tremendous and really helpful. And so there was a scene coming up, you know, in. In. I think it was like in two weeks time. We were away and we were texting and I was looking at this scene which is essentially Daniel Kellner being vulnerable in a way that we haven't seen up until this point in the movie. And my question to Steven was, like, how vulnerable do we go? Like, how much is he willing to show? How repressed is he? And how much are we willing to show his emotion, what he's really feeling? And we were kind of back and forth ing it. And in my head it was like, this will continue every day up until we do the scene. But just as I was going to be, I received this text from Stephen saying, the door is on the latch. Just push. And it unlocked the whole scene for me. I was like, that's it. It's like the emotions, like the door is on the latch. The emotions are raw. They're there. Just push the door, let it out. And I was like, it's genius. It's beautiful. It's poetical. I, like, came in the next day. I was like, stephen, you, you're a genius. I already knew you're a genius. But this is incredible. And inspired. And he looks so confused and bless him, he could have just claimed it, but he's such an honest man that he then looked at his phone confused and explained that it was meant for his wife and it was an instructional text. He was going to bed and he was letting her know that the door was on the latch and just push. But he killed two birds with one stone. And. And he doesn't mind me telling the story. He likes the story, so it's okay.

[Tonya Mosley]

Well, because it broke through for you, it got to the place you needed to be.

[Josh O'Connor]

It worked. It was great.

[Tonya Mosley]

Okay, let's talk about the crown for a moment. Because for many Americans, the first time we really saw you was as a young Prince Charles. And this man is petulant, he is self pitying, he is awful to Diana. And you played this role so well, Josh, that I kind of hated you for a minute. Sure, I'm sure you've heard that. Yeah, you've heard that. But you have said that you kept returning to this one idea that Charles, underneath everything, was basically just a lost boy. And I want to play a scene that gives us that sense. So in this scene, he has just been made the Prince of Wales. He gives a speech in Welsh about how no one wants to be overlooked or ignored. And he's referring to the Welsh people's relationship with Britain. And the Queen reads this translation and she has a few words for him. In a private conversation. She challenges him about it. And Olivia Colman plays Queen Elizabeth. Let's listen.

[Announcer]

People will always want us to smile

[Josh O'Connor]

or agree or frown or speak.

[Announcer]

And the minute that we do, we will have Declared a position, a point of view.

[Josh O'Connor]

And that is the one thing, as the royal family, we are not entitled to do.

[Announcer]

Which is why we have to hide

[Josh O'Connor]

those feelings, keep them to ourselves.

[Announcer]

Because the less we do, the less we say or speak or agree or

[Josh O'Connor]

think or breathe or feel or exist,

[Announcer]

the better.

[Josh O'Connor]

Doing that is perhaps not as easy for me as it is for you. Why? Because I have a beating heart, a character, a mind, and a will of my own. I am not just a symbol. I can lead not just by wearing a uniform or by cutting a ribbon, but by sewing people who I am. Mommy, I have a voice.

[Announcer]

Let me let you into a secret.

[Josh O'Connor]

No one wants to hear it. Are you talking about the country? My own family? No one.

[Announcer]

Oh.

[Tonya Mosley]

This is a scene where this show just quietly asks us to love Prince Charles right before season four, kind of asks us to despise him. How important was it to you? Because I feel like it was for us to kind of be won over, knowing the Charles that we will encounter later.

[Josh O'Connor]

I haven't heard that in so long. And it's. It's quite. It's quite nice to hear it. I mean, it's sort of such a moment in my life playing him. But also, I think that scene is so important in terms of the journey of the character, the fictional character of Prince Charles in the show.

[Tonya Mosley]

And you make a point to say fictional because so much of this had to be written. We don't know it.

[Josh O'Connor]

Yeah, but I think what Peter Morgan does so well is he takes the kind of paradox of power and family in the crown, and he tries to pull it apart and empathize and understand it. You know, right at the beginning, I had a phone call from my agent saying that they'd like to meet you to play Prince Charles in the crown. And my initial reaction was, no, thank you. And that was a kind of personal feeling. And it came from the fact that I'm a republican in a. In the British sense, not the American sense. I. I don't fully. You know, I believe in a more equal society, and the construct of a monarchy makes that very difficult. Having said that, I actually have. You know, I really had very little interest. I didn't have an interest in the royal family. I didn't necessarily read much about them. So I guess my first, like, where I started from was like, this isn't for me. But Peter Morgan said this thing to me, which really helped and unlocked a lot for me, which was that he said, see, this philosophy and this paradox and this difficulty which is here is a character who is waiting for his mother to die in order for his life to take meaning. And that was kind of enough for me. That was like, okay, that's enough for me to get my teeth into. And then from there it was about constantly coloring everything he does with the same sort of textures that you or I might feel around family, which is how do you get the respect and the acclaim of your parents? How do we please our parents? And so in that particular scene, you know, he's desperately wanting affirmation from his mother. And at the same time, he's very aware that he's in a kind of holding bay. He's the prince. He's in waiting. And in order for him to take that responsibility, to take up his meaning, his mom has to die.

[Tonya Mosley]

Our guest today is actor Josh o'. Connor. We'll be right back after a short break. I'm Tanya Mosley and this is FRESH AIR.

[Commercial Announcer]

This message is from AT&T. With your summer essential, the iPhone 17 Pro, its center stage front camera auto adjusts the frame to fit everyone into group selfies. Right now at, at and t ask how you can get iPhone 17 Pro on them with eligible trade in requires eligible plan terms and restrictions apply. Subject to change. Visit att.com iPhone for details. This message comes from Progressive Insurance. Insurance isn't one size fits all. That's why drivers have enjoyed Progressive's name your price tool for years now. With the name your price tool, you tell them what you want to pay and they'll show you options that fit your budget. So whether you're picking out your first policy or just looking for something that works better for you and your family, they make it easy to see your options. Visit progressive.com, progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates price and coverage match limited by state law. This message comes from Capital One. Capital One offers checking accounts with no fees or minimums. What's in your Wallet terms apply. SeeCapital1.com BankGuy for details. Capital One NA Member FDIC I read

[Tonya Mosley]

that you found Charles through his body first, that you started with his posture. How did you build a man from that? That from the outside in like that?

[Josh O'Connor]

Yeah. You know, I studied a lot of footage of young Prince Charles and how he maneuvered and how he walked around. But I think after a little bit of that, it was like, okay, I've got the basis of that. Let's try and understand what an exaggerated version of that might look like. But more importantly, where that comes from. Is there a sense of him protecting himself? Is he cowering because, you know, he's got the weight of the world on his shoulders.

[Tonya Mosley]

Did you have any issues with your back after you were done?

[Josh O'Connor]

I had issues with my back before I started. So they were just worsened by playing Fritz Charles, but I think. So there were a couple of years where I. I was trying to get out of that physicality, but that happens with every. There's always this buffer period after I play any role where I'm kind of half in, half out, and it's a little strange. And I, you know, I had it did this movie in Italy a few years ago, which was very meaningful to me. And a great friend of mine was talking to me about it recently, and she was like, you know, you wore the suit of the character for a year after you finished that film. And I, in my head, I just liked the suit, so I was wearing the suit.

[Tonya Mosley]

Oh, the literal suit, yeah. What movie was this?

[Josh O'Connor]

It's a movie called La Chimera. It's an Italian.

[Tonya Mosley]

Yes, yes.

[Josh O'Connor]

And. And the suit was beautiful, but I just couldn't take it off. And in my head, it was because I just liked the suit. Now with a bit of perspective, I can look back and go, that was actually just. I didn't want to say goodbye to that character. And there is a. You know, there is a grief associated. Even when I was a kid doing, like, school plays, I'd finish the play and my mom would always be like, you know, he'll be sick, he'll get ill. And I did. I'd always get ill. And I pretty much, without fail, every job I've done in my career, I get sick at the end. And I think there is. I'm learning that there is a grief that happens. You have to fall in love with this character, and you have to combine a bit of yourself and a bit of this fiction. And then you live as that character for two, three months, sometimes six months. And. And then it ends and there's a kind of buffer period. And so the sort of. The funny side of it is like, you know, dressing up in a suit for a year or having a sort of weird stooped back with Charles. But the reality is that there is something spiritual going on, a kind of sadness.

[Tonya Mosley]

I want to talk a little bit about God's own country because a lot of your characters come from a visceral place. But you play Johnny, a young Yorkshire farmer. He's gay, he's closed off, he's getting through life on drinking and casual sex until a migrant worker arrives and something opens up for him and to prepare for this, like so many of your other roles, you. You get really deep into it. I want you to take me to that. What you were actually doing out there day to day, playing this role as a farmer, but you really being a farmer.

[Josh O'Connor]

Yeah, well, I mean, I'll go back to the fact that Francis Lee, who directed that movie and is a friend of mine and still has had a huge, perhaps the biggest impact maybe on my. On the way I work. Francis and I discussed very early on that this felt like a film I didn't want, you know, a character I didn't want to fake. I wanted to do things for real and I wanted to feel what he felt and I. I wanted to understand his world. And so Francis helped facilitate that and that. That. What that looked like is that I moved up to Yorkshire and the north of England and I worked on a farm. And the farm that we were going to shoot on, I don't know that I was massively helpful to the farmer, but he's. We've become. Remain friends to this day. But he. I spoke in the accent. I tried to eat as far as I could as he would have eaten and drink. As he would have drunk and. And look, probably, you know, I was young and I think probably, or certainly I would do things differently now or the way I'd approach a role like that.

[Tonya Mosley]

You're being too modest. You were fixing fences, you were riding tractors, you were mucking out. I mean, you were working between takes and you were birthing lambs.

[Josh O'Connor]

Yeah, yeah. The funny story was that there was a day the film crew turn up and I'm no longer his farmhand. I'm an actor. I have a job to do. But that didn't stop John. You know, as far as John concerned, he was like, look at these annoying film guys who've just taken away my farmhand. And so there'll be days where I'd be filming, you know, shooting a scene, and then they'd call cut, and John would be sort of waiting at the barn door kind of a little hacked off, that he'd, like, lost his guy. And he was like, get back to work. And so then I'd, you know, birth a lamb and then wash my hands and do another take. So it's like. It was a confusing, beautiful thing that happened and a rare thing. And I. It's probably the thing I'm most proud of as a performance. It felt vivid and. And real and felt. But no, it was. It was intense. I mean, you know, you grow up with these, I always think of, like, the actors that I looked up to, like Diana Day Lewis and.

[Tonya Mosley]

Which you've been compared to.

[Josh O'Connor]

Well, yeah. I mean, I think, I sometimes think that the comparison is partly influenced by the fact that I'm talking about him all the time. So it's the fact that he's.

[Tonya Mosley]

And you're talking about him. Yeah. What is it about his. Because he's a method actor. I mean, he really gets himself deep into the characters in the way that you seem to.

[Josh O'Connor]

Well, yeah. And I don't know that he would describe himself as a method actor. And I certainly don't describe myself as a method actor. I'm not far from it. But I think what's more interesting to me nowadays, rather than the method of it, and it's not just Daniel Day Lewis. I think of Philip Seymour Hoffman, Gene Wilder, Meryl Streep, you know, people that I really look up to. There is an s. There's a sort of magic that happens, and it's very hard to articulate. And I don't know that I have the tools to articulate it really. But I think that there is a kind of a level of the spiritual in terms of a character that is accessed by performers like that. And I don't know, that sounds kind of highfaluting and pretentious, but I don't know how else to describe it.

[Tonya Mosley]

And it's a place that you're trying to get to in your work.

[Josh O'Connor]

Yeah, for sure. And by the way, rarely have I achieved it.

[Tonya Mosley]

You don't think so?

[Josh O'Connor]

No, I don't really. But it's less, less about an arrival. It's more about the pursuit. And I think I can see that with other performers as well. You know, I think one of my great friends, Jesse Buckley, who just gave this extraordinary performance in Hamnet, you know, Jesse has that similar quality, I think, of someone who's pursuing the spiritual, the kind of the, the spirit or the soul of a character rather than just replicating something.

[Tonya Mosley]

Let's take a short break. If you're just joining us, my guest is actor Josh o'. Connor. He stars in Steven Spielberg's new film, Disclosure Day. This is FRESH air.

[Announcer]

This message comes from MIDI Health, a virtual care platform for women in perimenopause and menopause. CEO Joanna Strober shares the mission behind working with women in midlife.

[Tonya Mosley]

It's not just about hormones.

[Announcer]

It's not just about weight loss medications.

[Tonya Mosley]

We are very much a holistic care

[Announcer]

platform, and our job is to figure

[Tonya Mosley]

out whatever medications are appropriate for you

[Announcer]

and offer you those medications. MIDI Health Committed to helping women in midlife with perimenopause and menopause care Accessible via telehealth [e-mail] support for NPR and the following message come from GoodRx. Summer's here and with busier days and changing routines, staying healthy and on budget is top of mind. With Goodrx, you can find big savings at the pharmacy for the whole family. Pets too. Compare prescription prices at over 70,000 pharmacies and instantly find free coupons. Goodrx is not insurance, but it may beat your copay price. If you do have insurance save at the pharmacy this summer, go to goodrx.com fresh this message comes from Dell Technologies. Interruptions will always come up at work, but with the Dell Pro laptop, powered by Intel Core Ultra, with vpro, built with optimized battery and built in intelligence, your tech won't slow you down. Dell.com Dell Pro

[Tonya Mosley]

you mentioned your dyslexia a little bit earlier, and I've heard you talk about how school wasn't always easy for you, as maybe it was for some of the kids around you. When did you come to understand that you process information differently than those around you?

[Josh O'Connor]

I remember struggling with reading. I found reading harder than, you know, when you're seven or eight and you're reading in class and everyone's taking their turns to read a sentence or two. And I just remember I was struggling with that in a way that I could see other kids weren't. I certainly remember at the age of 11, 10 or 11, I went and did a test and they ran this test. And I remember saying to the person who ran the test, at the end of it, they said to me, so, Josh, what do you think dyslexia is? And I was like, it means you're stupid. And at the time, the person that ran the test was like, no, no, no, it does not mean you're stupid. She actually said it actually means you're intellectually challenged. Which, by the way, I think is worse than stupid. But that's by the by. But. But at the time, that was the kind of the understanding of it was like, this is a roadblock and it's hard. Things are going to be harder for you. And so that was my kind of notion of what it meant to be dyslexic. I had this great teacher in my secondary school who once said to me, the gift of dyslexia is someone without dyslexia who needs to get from a to C would go A, B, C. And someone with dyslexia might go A to E, to D, back to B and then to C. And it's going to take them longer, but they get to see D and E in a way that the person without doesn't. And that really unlocked a lot for me in terms of, I guess, a realization that whilst things might take longer, there is a process and often a very artistic process that means that it might take me a longer period of time to get to the end goal. But I'm experiencing much more, I'm learning much more and I'm seeing much more. I'm making it hard for myself, but that's just the way my brain works. And. And also learning that so many artists and scientists and brilliant people are. I mean, Einstein was dyslexic. So, you know, it doesn't. It does. Definitely doesn't mean you're intellectually challenged. It can be a great superpower, and I think that's what I've learned.

[Tonya Mosley]

I want to talk a little bit more about your childhood. You were born and raised in Cheltenham and it's in southwest England.

[Josh O'Connor]

I had a really great upbringing in that town and my. My dad was an English teacher at my school. My mum was a midwife in the NHS National Health Service. And I had two brothers who were great and we got on, I mean, you know, as much as.

[Tonya Mosley]

And you're the middle child and I

[Josh O'Connor]

was the middle child. And so, yeah, and we had my grandmother around. It was kind of great. Mm.

[Tonya Mosley]

Your grandmother, she sounds like quite a lady. She was an artist herself, a ceramicist. And it sounds like you two are really close.

[Josh O'Connor]

She was a powerful figure, I guess, in our family. She. She was a brilliant ceramicist. I wonder if nowadays she might be more celebrated because of social media or whatever. I don't know. But at the time, she was a sort of. It was a different time for women in art, for one. But also I think ceramics was maybe seen as a craft rather than an art form.

[Tonya Mosley]

Did you spend time with your grandmother while she was making pottery? Did you yourself, as a child, also participate in that?

[Josh O'Connor]

Well, no, actually. Strangely, it's something I've a great gift I've received from my grandmothers. I'm fascinated and have a love for pottery and ceramics. I also. I make things, but I'm not very good, but I enjoy the process of making things. I mean, I sat in her studio many times and would witness her making these figures. I remember the smell of the clay and I remember the smell of the kiln and the heat from the kiln and the smell of the paint that she used and the glaze that she used. You know, there's a sensory memory of those spaces and those spaces felt exciting as a child. And so I'm sure there's no accident that I have that interest now.

[Tonya Mosley]

You have said, though, that you are looking forward to spending time at some point in the near future at home doing all of those things, photography, ceramics.

[Josh O'Connor]

Yeah.

[Tonya Mosley]

Is that a real are you feeling more settled now or are you feeling that that is something you actually want to take for yourself?

[Josh O'Connor]

That is something I actually want to take for myself for sure. And it's yes, it's about being at home making ceramics, doing my 65 year old woman thing. But it is also it's genuine. I think it's been a busy 15 years or whatever it's been since I became professional actor. And I love it. I love my job. But I, you know, I'm 36 years old now. A lot of my friends are married, having kids, which is great. But I think there's a part of me that's like, you know, maybe I wanna not necessarily marriage or kids, but I think maybe I want to be Josh for a little bit and feel what that feels like. And that includes gardening. I love gardening. I'll do work in my garden and then I'll jet off and not see the fruits of my labor. So there's a little bit of like I want to be in my garden for a bit. Oh, I want to really work on my practice of making ceramics or I want to see my friends or my family. You know, I think there's like, there's just a feeling of excitement around being me for a little bit. And I think that's a nice thing.

[Tonya Mosley]

This has been such a pleasure to get to know you. Josh o', Connor, thank you for your time.

[Josh O'Connor]

Thanks so much.

[Tonya Mosley]

Josh o' Connor stars in the new Steven Spielberg film Disclosure Day in theaters starting Friday after a short break, our TV critic David Biancooley reviews new documentaries on veteran entertainers Lorne Michaels and Martin Short.

[Announcer]

This is FRESH air support for NPR. And the following message come from GoodRx. Summer's here. And with busier days and changing routines, staying healthy and on budget is top of mind with Goodrx. You can find big savings at the pharmacy for the whole family pets too. Compare prescription prices at over 70,000 pharmacies and instantly find free coupons. Goodrx is not insurance, but it may beat your co pay price if you do have insurance save at the pharmacy this summer. Go to goodrx.com fresh this message comes from Dell Dell PCs with Intel inside are built for the moments that matter. Like a big project that can't be interrupted by an update with long lasting battery life, you can stay focused on what matters built for you. Dell.comdellpcs this message comes from Capital One

[Commercial Announcer]

Capital One offers checking accounts with no fees or minimums. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capital1.com bankguy for details. Capital One NA member FDIC two new

[Tonya Mosley]

documentaries focus on veteran entertainers and are directed by prominent filmmakers. Lorne, which premiered in theaters in April and is now streaming, looks at Lorne Michaels, creator of NBC's Saturday Night Live and is directed by Morgan Neville. Marty Life is Short, streaming on Netflix, is a biography of comedian Martin Short, directed by Lawrence Kasdan. Our TV critic David B. And Cooley finds that they have a lot in common.

[David Biancolli]

Lorne Michaels and Martin Short both entered show business in the early 1970s. Michaels is half of a stand up comedy duo, Short, as a cast member of a Toronto stage production of the musical Godspell. Michaels moved to la, wrote for Rowan and Martin's Laugh in in some Lily Tomlin TV specials, then launched Saturday Night Live. Short joined the Toronto Second City improv troupe, then joined the cast of sctv, a TV sketch comedy show just as brilliant as snl. Eventually, Martin Short joined SNL for a year, but that was during the five years Lorne Michaels had walked away from the show. Yet their lives intersected soon after when Martin Short starred as one of the Three Amigos in a comedy film alongside Steve Martin and Chevy Chase. That movie was written by Steve Martin, Randy Newman and co producer Lorne Michaels in Martin, Life Is Short. Lawrence Kasdan, writer and director of the Big Chill, tells Martin's short story with full access and an easy intimacy. They've been good friends for decades. Morgan Neville, whose documentaries include intimate studies of Fred Rogers and Paul McCartney, finds Lorne Michaels a more elusive subject, so gleans most of his valuable insights from Lauren's friends and SNL cast and crew. Both films are loaded with celebrities, the movie, Lauren with interviews and Marty Life is Short, with a lifetime of personal family film footage where every holiday seems to turn into an all star comedy and music fest. But there are plenty of interviews here too, including a rather serious vintage one with late night TV host Tom Snyder that explains the movie's title, marty Life is Short.

[Commercial Announcer]

You had to handle tragedy when you

[Josh O'Connor]

were a lad, right? You lost A brother. He died.

[David Biancolli]

I lost my brother David when I was 12, my mother when I was

[Josh O'Connor]

18, my father when I was 20. Tough being the youngest in the family as well, right?

[David Biancolli]

At that age or at any age,

[Josh O'Connor]

when you lose someone in your family,

[David Biancolli]

you have a choice. You actually have a choice.

[Josh O'Connor]

How do I handle this? This is a life lesson, right? And so do I. Do I collapse? Do I become defeated forever? Or do I actually kind of learn that life is short and have a

[David Biancolli]

glass of wine and laugh and fun

[Josh O'Connor]

and appreciate these people and never let them go.

[David Biancolli]

See, that's, I think, the great secret.

[Josh O'Connor]

If you never let them go from your life, then they're always with your life because before you know it, you know you'll be with them.

[David Biancolli]

There is indeed a lot of tragedy in this film, but there's also a constant river of joy. The get togethers held by Martin and his wife Nancy, seem absurdly overpopulated. Kids running everywhere, celebrities in every lounge chair, but also a ridiculous amount of fun. Short photographed many of these home movies himself, but others joined in, too. One frequent guest, Steven Spielberg, brought his camera and filmed Martin Short and another party regular reenacting a famous scene from Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. You know the one. Butch and Sundance are trapped on a cliff, cornered by a posse, and figure their only escape is to jump into the river far below. But in this version, they're on a big boat, and Butch and Cassidy are played by Tom Hanks and Martin Short in character respectively, as Forrest Gump and Ed Grimley.

[Josh O'Connor]

Marty and Tom got this idea. Hey, let's do that scene from Butch Kessie, the Sundance Kid. Oh, it's very sad of us. We're gonna be killed. You know, just get ready to shoot the bad guys. There's only one way out, so we should jump. I must say, I know we'll get

[Tonya Mosley]

shot, so let's go.

[Josh O'Connor]

Mom always said jumping off clips is like lots of chocolate. Oh, yeah. You never know what you might like. Yeah, yeah, right. Come on, Forest. I can't swim. Oh, that's very funny. For heaven's sakes. The fall kill us. I must say,

[David Biancolli]

Marty, Life is Short gives you a sense of his love of family and his work ethic and perspective. As a longtime comic and actor in vintage clips and in new interviews, he's very open about his personal life and feelings. But there also are so many clips here that prove just how versatile and original Martin Short was, as when he portrays the famously overweight, underprepared celebrity interviewer Jiminy Glick. And hits his subject, in this case Mel Brooks, with the most unexpected of questions.

[Josh O'Connor]

What's your big beef with the Nazis? What's my big beef? Yes, it seems like you're always knocking. What's my big beef? You're always knocking the Nazis. Oh, let's. It's. It's time for Mel Brooks to knock the knot.

[David Biancolli]

He sits the movie has less of its subject at dead center. Even amid all the hoopla and TV specials about the recent golden anniversary of snl, Lorne Michaels largely avoided the spotlight. Morgan Neville actually gets him to talk a bit about comedy, as when Lauren defends the traditional midweek all nighter endured by the SNL writing staff.

[Josh O'Connor]

I always say fatigue is your friend. Through exhaustion and through people just being so depleted, the unconscious takes over and suddenly you take way bigger risks and you start to make yourself laugh.

[David Biancolli]

There's also clever use of animation to tell some parts of Lorne's story and an understandable reliance on current and former SNL staffers to tell their own Lorne stories. Almost everyone takes part, from Chevy Chase to Chris Rock, like this one from Mike Myers that explains the strengths of Lorne Michaels with one simple allegory.

[Josh O'Connor]

You know, there's a story that Lorne always talks about, which is he was in somewhere in Europe and he was driving through pumpkin fields and he came across a guy. And you could get out at any moment and load your trunk full of pumpkins and nobody would see you because it was all these little back roads. But he came across somebody selling pumpkins in the middle of these vast pumpkin fields. And so Lorne was curious and so he got out and he said to the guy, why should I buy your pumpkins? I could have stolen 7,000. He goes, what am I paying for? And the guy selling pumpkins says, you pay for my eye. I pick the good pumpkins.

[David Biancolli]

Marty, Life is Short and Lauren are very different documentaries taking very different approaches. However, they have at least one thing in common. I really enjoyed watching them both and learn some things, too, like how Martin Short came up with Ed Grimley's very particular look and voice, and how a Tennessee road trip Lorne Michaels took with Paul Simon ended up inspiring Simon's Graceland. Watch for the details and for a lot of laughs.

[Tonya Mosley]

David Biancooli reviewed Lorne and Marty Life is Short. Tomorrow on Fresh air, comic Josh Johnson, one of the anchors of the Daily Show. Johnson gets millions of views on his YouTube comedy channel, where he posts his comedy club performances. And he has a new HBO comedy special called Symphony I hope you can join us to keep up with what's on the show and get highlights of our interviews. Follow us on Instagram @NPRFreshAir. Fresh Air's executive producer is Sam Brigger. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Anne Marie Boldonado, Lauren Krenzel, Teresa Madden, Monique Nazareth, Thea Chaloner, Susan Yakund, Anna Bauman and Nico Gonzalez Whistler. Our digital media producer is Molly CV Nesper. Roberta Sharrock directs the show with Terry Gross. I'm Tonya Mosley.

[Commercial Announcer]

This message comes from Capital One Capital One offers checking accounts with no fees or minimums. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capitalone.com bankguy for details. Capital One NA Member FDIC this message comes from ZipRecruiter. Finding great candidates to hire can be like trying to find a needle in a haystack. Unless you use ZipRecruiter. ZipRecruiter doesn't depend on candidates finding you, it finds them for you. That's why four out of five employers who post a job on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. And right now, you can try ZipRecruiter for free at ZipRecruiter.com Zip that's ZipRecruiter.com Zip.