Legendary record producer & manager Peter Asher

Summary

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Fresh Air — Legendary Record Producer & Manager Peter Asher

Host: Terry Gross (NPR)
Air Date: July 7, 2026
Guest: Peter Asher
Episode Theme:
A sweeping look at the remarkable career and legacy of Peter Asher — from British Invasion pop star as half of Peter & Gordon to Grammy-winning producer and manager who helped shape the sounds and careers of icons such as James Taylor and Linda Ronstadt. The episode highlights Asher’s unique vantage point at the heart of ‘60s and ‘70s music, his pivotal industry relationships, and his ongoing passion for musical storytelling. Discussion centers on the new documentary, Peter Asher: Everywhere Man.

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Main Topics & Key Insights

The Beatles, Peter & Gordon, and “A World Without Love”

• Asher’s Start in Music: Peter Asher rose to fame as part of Peter & Gordon, whose debut single “A World Without Love” (penned by Paul McCartney) became a transatlantic hit.
• Backstory of the Song:
  • On John’s Rejection:
    “I think what John didn’t like about it was the lyrics, that he thought that ‘please lock me away’ was an absurd line to put in the song. And so he would actually say to Paul, okay, I will lock you away. The song’s over.” (Peter Asher, 03:47)
  • Credit for Beatles Songs: Paul later expressed regret that even songs he wrote solo were credited to Lennon-McCartney; Peter found the joint credit charming and a sign of their closeness.

Living With the Asher Family: The Beatles Connection

• Paul’s Stay: Paul lived with the Ashers because of his relationship with Peter’s sister Jane.
• Creative Genesis:
  • Paul McCartney describes the home’s musical energy:
    “There’s a lot of connection there. They got a piano in my room, and there was a piano in the basement as well. So when John came to visit, we could write there on the piano...” (Paul McCartney via documentary clip, 05:26)
  • Asher vividly recalls being called downstairs to hear the newly written “I Want to Hold Your Hand.”
    “I thought, am I losing my mind or is this one of the best songs I’ve ever heard in my life? ...I immediately asked them if they could play it again.” (Peter Asher, 06:32-06:47)

Reflections on Fame and the British Invasion

• Becoming Famous:
  • The “template” for British pop fame was set by the Beatles; Peter & Gordon were swept up in the fervor, with all the screaming crowds.
  • “It was indeed [an extreme jump]...I was at university reading philosophy...and only less than a year later I was driving down Sunset Boulevard in a Mustang, being recognized by beautiful women...I made the decision to quit university and take up this pop stuff full time.” (Peter Asher, 09:39)
• Technology of the Era:
  • “We couldn’t hear ourselves at all...Ringo explained that he knew where he was in the song by watching the backs of Paul and John.” (Peter Asher, 09:00)
• America’s Musical Difference:
  • Differences in radio, live jazz, club culture, and the American reverence for British acts were striking.
    “And then the miracle is that we somehow learned it all and tweaked it slightly and sold it all back to you. It was a remarkable achievement from a business point of view.” (Peter Asher, 10:57)

Early Life and Family Connections

• Musical Family: Peter’s mother, an oboist, once taught a young George Martin (later Beatles producer).
• Child Actor: Asher began as a child actor on British TV/film alongside his sisters, all selected for their picturesque red hair.

London’s Cultural Revolution & The Indica Gallery

• Post-war Upheaval: The hardships and austerity of post-war Britain made the 1960s a time of deliberate exuberance and experimentation.
• Fashion & Fun: “Now it’s time to have some fun. So we’re going to wear silly clothes and bright colors and smoke dope and have a good time. And we did.” (Peter Asher, 17:20)
• John and Yoko’s Meeting:
  • The Indica Gallery (co-owned by Asher) hosted Yoko Ono’s show where John Lennon first met her.
    On the Beatles’ breakup blame: “As soon as I told the story, somebody jumped up to their feet and said, ‘It was you. You broke up the Beatles.’ And I had to say, ‘No, I didn’t...’” (Peter Asher, 19:36)

From Artist to Producer: Apple Records and James Taylor

• Early Producer Role: Asher became head of A&R at Apple Records; the label famously accepted unsolicited demos.
• Signing James Taylor:
  • “I couldn’t believe it. His guitar playing was exceptional. His singing was exceptional, and the songs were brilliant.” (Peter Asher, 24:31-25:03)
  • Taylor was the first artist Asher signed at Apple, with the Beatles’ approval.
• Vision for Taylor:
  • Asher wanted Taylor’s musicianship and songwriting to be recognized as serious and sophisticated; hence, the first album featured orchestration and was designed to set him apart from “just another long haired folkie.”
  • The initial Apple album did not sell well, but built a foundation for future success in the U.S.

Management and Production in America

• Leaving Apple: Asher left the label to avoid being fired by new management.
• James Taylor’s Struggles and Triumphs:
  • On Taylor’s heroin habit: “It interfered with his music a lot. I think it takes up quite a bit of your attention, you know, being a junkie...but eventually we discussed it openly...the actual process of becoming clean took him years.” (Peter Asher, 30:54)
• Producing “Fire and Rain” & Collaboration with Carole King:
  • Asher brought in Carole King for her piano style, which matched Taylor’s songs perfectly.
  • “I loved Carole King’s piano playing specifically because it was very much an accompanist kind...” (Peter Asher, 34:00)
  • Their collaboration kindled both King’s performing and Taylor’s ongoing success.
  • The story of “You’ve Got a Friend”:
    Carole King debuted it at a Troubadour soundcheck; both Taylor and King recorded versions almost simultaneously, and both were huge hits.

Working with Linda Ronstadt

• First Encounter:
  • Asher was blown away by Linda Ronstadt’s voice, presence, and intelligence at a New York club.
• Support and Collaboration:
  • He became both producer and manager, offering Ronstadt more creative input than previous collaborators.
• Signature Songs:
  • “Heart Like a Wheel” was Ronstadt’s choice, “You’re No Good” was suggested by Asher (with credit also to bassist Kenny Edwards).
    “Rarely does one actually super confident that records are hit. But in this case, we were listening to ‘You’re No Good’ and kind of went, if that's not hit record...I don’t know what is...” (Peter Asher, 44:36)

Championing Studio Musicians

• Giving Credit:
  • Asher pioneered the inclusion of musician credits on the back of rock albums:
    “I remember looking at records as a fan...I would always wonder who was playing on it and couldn't find the information. The guy who took the album cover photograph was more likely to get a credit than the people who played all this breathtaking music. So it seemed to me entirely logical...they should be listed.” (Peter Asher, 47:31)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I think maybe self consciousness comes when you’re ten or comes with puberty. I don’t think I felt very self conscious at that point.”
  — Peter Asher on child acting, 13:46

• “We decided, you know, that was all very well. We admired what our parents have accomplished. Thank God we won the war and all that stuff. But now it’s time to have some fun.”
  — Peter Asher on ‘60s counterculture, 17:20

• “She was amazingly smart and bright and brilliant and well read and fascinating as a person. So I was knocked out and her voice just impressed the hell out of me.”
  — Peter Asher on Linda Ronstadt, 42:29

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Key Timestamps for Major Segments

• 03:38 — Backstory of “A World Without Love,” the Lennon-McCartney partnership.
• 05:26 — Paul McCartney on living with the Ashers and collaborative songwriting.
• 06:32 — Asher’s reaction to hearing “I Want to Hold Your Hand” as it was first written.
• 09:00 — The realities of performing live during the British Invasion era.
• 13:05 — Asher’s beginnings as a child actor.
• 17:07 — Reflections on rationing, post-war Britain, the shift to ‘60s exuberance.
• 18:52 — The Indica Gallery, Asher’s connection to John and Yoko’s meeting.
• 22:26 — Asher’s pivot to production and Apple Records role.
• 24:31 — Discovering James Taylor and signing him to Apple Records.
• 30:45 — Discussing James Taylor’s struggles with addiction.
• 33:59 — Carole King’s recruitment and genesis of the Taylor/King musical partnership.
• 41:51 — First encounter and relationship with Linda Ronstadt.
• 44:36 — Creation and success of “You’re No Good.”
• 47:31 — Asher’s advocacy for musician credits on albums.

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Episode Tone & Style

Conversational, insightful, nostalgic, and often humorous—mirroring Peter Asher’s thoughtful, witty, and self-effacing storytelling.

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Takeaways for Listeners

• Peter Asher’s career connects the dots between British Invasion pop, the genesis of singer-songwriter Americana, and classic ‘70s rock.
• He played a pivotal and often behind-the-scenes role in launching musical legends, acting as creative midwife and advocate for fellow artists.
• Asher’s stories provide a rarified, first-hand look at music history—particularly the ways artistry, networking, and serendipity shape musical culture.
• His continued passion for music and storytelling is evident, echoing the spirit of reinvention and generosity that defined his era and lasting impact.

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Further viewing: Peter Asher: Everywhere Man documentary (in select theaters)
Upcoming event: Asher performing his stage show at Abbey Road Studios on Halloween.

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Transcript

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[Terry Gross]

This is FRESH air. I'm Terry Gross. One of the successful British Invasion bands of the 60s was the duo Peter and Gordon. Peter is my guest, Peter Asher, who later became a famous record producer. The first record Peter and Gordon released became a number one hit in England and the U.S. that song, a World Without Love was written by Paul McCartney for the Beatles, but John Lennon didn't like it, so Paul put it away until Peter asked to record it. Paul had been living in the Asher family home where Peter, his sisters and his parents lived. We'll hear why a little later. It's a great story. So here's A World Without Love from 1964.

[James Taylor (singing)]

Please lock me away and don't allow the day here inside where I hide with my loneliness. I don't care what they say I won't stay in a world without love. Birds sing out a tune and rain clouds hide the moon I'm okay here I'll stay with my loneliness I don't care what they say I won't stay in a world without love. So I wait and in a while I will see my true love smile. She may come, I know not when, when she does I lose so baby, until then lock me.

[Terry Gross]

Peter and Gordon went on to have other hits including Nobody I Know, I Don't want to see you again and I Go to Pieces. After the duo Split up in 1968, Peter became the first A&R man at the Beatles new Apple record label. The first person he signed was James Taylor, who had never recorded before. Peter didn't stay long at Apple. He moved to la, produced and managed Taylor, and helped turn him into a star. He introduced Taylor to Carole King and launched King's performing career. He produced and managed Linda Ronstadt. Other artists he produced over the years include Randy Newman, Cher, Neil Diamond, Morrissey, Diana Ross, Elton John, Bonnie Raitt, Barbra Streisand, Robin Williams and Steve Martin. Wow, that's really a phenomenal list. Pete Asher is part of other important moments in music history. Peter co owned the gallery where John first met Yoko while her work was on exhibit there. Peter was unintentionally responsible for Mick Jagger meeting Marianne Faithfull, which began their romance. In addition to the many Grammys his artists won, he won three producing Grammys and in 1977 was on the COVID of Rolling Stone, a new documentary chronicles Peter Asher's life. It's called Peter Asher Everywhere, Man. It's playing in select theaters around the country. Peter Asher, welcome to FRESH air. I really like this documentary. You've had such an interesting life. So let's start with World Without Love. Did Paul ever explain why John rejected it?

[Peter Asher]

I think it was the lyrics. First of all, I think I don't think it's quite true to say that Paul wrote it for the Beatles. I think he wrote it pre Beatles, actually.

[Terry Gross]

Oh, that's right. You say he wrote it.

[Peter Asher]

Right. He was like 16 or something. Something like that, which is extraordinary. And I think what John didn't like about it was the lyrics that he thought that please lock me away was an absurd line to put in the song. And so he would actually say to Paul, okay, I will lock you away. The song's over.

[Terry Gross]

So it's copyrighted to Lennon McCartney.

[Peter Asher]

Everything was, yes, I know.

[Terry Gross]

And Paul told me one of the times I interviewed him that he regrets having the Beatles songs that Paul or John wrote independently credited to both of them, especially because even if Paul wrote a song him, the credit started with Lennon. Lennon McCartney.

[Peter Asher]

I'm not sure I agree with Paul about that. I think it was something particularly charming and emphasized the closeness of their relationship that they agreed to credit everything to the two of them. And I think that was actually a very fair division of credit and saved them any arguments because at the beginning, of course, they did actually write together. The songs they wrote in our house in London, as you point out, were songs that John came over. They sat down together at the piano or together with two guitars facing each other and wrote together. So I think that even if they just later did it in commemoration of those moments of togetherness and creativity, I think it was kind of a cool thing to do.

[Terry Gross]

So since you were talking about them writing songs together, let's hear a clip from the documentary. And this is a part where Paul is talking about living with your family and what that was like. And it leads into writing with John Lennon at your home. And in the second part of this clip, we'll hear you.

[Paul McCartney]

It was such a family. Claire was a very nice younger sister, a lot of fun. And then there was Peter, interesting, bright guy. I could talk to him about anything. And also very interested in music, very musical. So there's a lot of connection there. They got a piano in my room, and there was a piano in the basement as well. So when John came to visit, we could write there on the piano at the Same time, there was a little

[Peter Asher]

music room in the basement. And I do remember one particular occasion. Shortly after Paul had moved in, John came over and he and Paul went down to this music room. They were down there for a couple of hours and then Paul called up the stairs to me in my bedroom and asked if I wanted to come down and hear this song they had just finished writing. They sat side by side at the piano and hammered out the first version anyone had ever heard of this brand new song they had just finished called I want to hold you'd hand.

[Terry Gross]

Peter Asher, your reaction was what when you heard the song?

[Peter Asher]

Amazement. I mean, I thought, am I losing my mind or is this one of the best songs I've ever heard in my life? Or possibly both. But I was thrilled and amazed. And they looked at me for some kind of reaction and I said, I think that's amazing. And perhaps the biggest giveaway is the fact that I immediately asked them if they could play it again. And perhaps the second giveaway is the fact that they were delighted to play it again. I think they knew that they'd written something special. Whether they had in mind the fact that it was gonna break the whole change the whole attitude of the whole world, starting with America, that everyone was gonna become a Beatle fan when they heard I wanna hold your hand, that that was the magic that set off the American Beatlemania epidemic, I don't know. But that's what it turned out to be.

[Terry Gross]

So Paul was living with your family because your sister Jane Asher was a famous actress by then and Paul was her boyfriend. Yes, the Beatles had a home in London for when they were there, but Paul found it too chaotic. He must have moved in very early in the Beatles career, because if he and John hadn't yet written I want to hold, you'd handle that. Had to be pretty early.

[Peter Asher]

That's a good point. Yes, that's correct. I'm very bad at dates, as I told you, but yes, that certainly would be true.

[Terry Gross]

So watching Paul's fame, what did it teach you about what it means to be famous because you are on the verge of becoming famous yourself?

[Peter Asher]

It's a good question. I don't really know I learned anything about becoming famous. And certainly nobody was famous in a way that compared to the Beatles in any sense. But certainly when we got to America, there's no question the template for famous British Invasion member had been sort of set by the Beatles. And that all the girls who chased you around the streets and stuff, which they did, were following what they'd seen in the Beatles movie and how they knew everyone reacted to the Beatles the screaming reached fever pitch and we were lucky to be sort of part of that whole madness and it was a

[Terry Gross]

thrilling time did you always feel lucky that girls were chasing after the band and that they were screaming? Probably so loud they couldn't actually hear the music that you were playing and you might not have been able to hear Gordon when you were singing with him on stage?

[Peter Asher]

Yes, that was very annoying that was true I mean, it was certainly one of the downsides of the technology of that era Monitors hadn't been invented oh,

[Terry Gross]

you had no monitors?

[Peter Asher]

No monitors at all let alone the fancy in ears that we all have today so we couldn't hear ourselves at all I mean, Ringo, I remember, did an interview explaining that he knew where he was on the song by watching the backs of Paul and John he could tell from their movements which bit of the song they were in but you couldn't hear anything between the screaming and the technological setbacks, it was guesswork

[Terry Gross]

it must have been strange for you, from going to a guy who was playing small clubs to suddenly having a number one record, touring America, getting on the Ed Sullivan show it's like an

[Peter Asher]

extreme jump it was indeed. I mean, I often say that there was a comparison between. At one point, I remember when I was. Before I'd even made the record, I was at university reading philosophy at London University and bicycling home from school Four in the afternoon in the dark and the rain Very often, if it was a British winter and only less than a year later, I think I was instead driving down Sunset Boulevard in the broad sunshine in a rented Mustang, being recognized by beautiful women and at that point I kind of went, this is a substantial improvement, you know, I think this is better so I made the decision to quit university, of course, and. And take up this pop stuff full

[Terry Gross]

time did it change your self image to have women chasing after you?

[Peter Asher]

No, but it's fun, that's for sure I don't think it. I don't know, it changed my self image Did I suddenly feel suave and grown up and manly? I don't think so I think my insecurities remained intact but it was certainly

[Terry Gross]

amusing so you loved American jazz, folk music, rock and roll, and suddenly you go to America and everybody's really absorbed in the British Invasion Americans were in love with British bands Was that incomprehensible to you?

[Peter Asher]

It was a surprise I mean, because that's the whole miracle of the British Invasion we loved all this music, you know, as you said, folk music and jazz, and I was a big jazz fan, and it just was extraordinary. And then we learned all this music, R and B and the Everly Brothers in our case, and so on and dec. Who wished to emulate among the stars of American music. And then the miracle is that we somehow learned it all and tweaked it slightly and sold it all back to you. It was a remarkable achievement from a business point of view, I suppose I

[Terry Gross]

want to mention another connection between your family and the Beatles, which is your mother was a professional oboe player. She performed with symphonies and taught oboe at the Royal Academy of Music. Also taught private lessons. And one of her private students was George Martin, who. Who later became the Beatles producer. I don't think he was producing them yet. Am I right about that?

[Peter Asher]

That's right, yeah. I don't think so. No, I think that's correct, yeah. It was an extraordinary coincidence. So by the time my mother was introduced to George Martin as her daughter's boyfriend's record producer, she was like, oh, it's George, you know. She had given him private lessons because he was concerned about passing his exams at the Guildhall School of Music. And he had. Oboe was his second instrument, and he required some further training, evidently, but presumably he was successful.

[Terry Gross]

Let's talk about your very first career, which was as a child actor. And as I think we mentioned earlier, you were in a film with Claudette Colbert. You had a part in the TV series the Adventures of Robin Hood, which I used to watch, and you were in a TV series with Boris Karloff episodes or an episode. So what. What was the experience for you, being like, I think, eight during part of this.

[Peter Asher]

I was eight when this started. I did my first film, Planter's Wife, with Claudette Colbert and Jack Hawkins, when I was eight.

[Terry Gross]

Yes, yes. So what was the experience like for you? Did you feel like, this is exciting, I'm getting to meet movie stars, or did you just. Oh, okay.

[Peter Asher]

But I enjoyed acting, too. I mean, I was. I enjoyed the work. But it's very standard. You read the script, learn your lines and do what the director wants you to do and hope that it was good.

[Terry Gross]

What was it like seeing yourself on screen? Did you go to a movie theater and see yourself?

[Peter Asher]

Yes, we used to go and see rushes quite often in the evening, you know, and see what you'd shot that very day or the day before, perhaps. Because I had to develop the film, I suppose.

[Terry Gross]

Did it make you any more or less comfortable with yourself in Terms of how you looked, did it make you self conscious?

[Peter Asher]

I don't think so, actually. I think maybe self consciousness comes when you're 10 or comes with puberty. I don't know. I don't think I felt very self conscious at that point. No.

[Terry Gross]

Did your mother feel comfortable with you as a performer since she was a performer too? She played oboe.

[Peter Asher]

Yes. She was surprisingly cool with it. I mean, all three of us got signed, Jane and Claire and I.

[Terry Gross]

Those are your two sisters.

[Peter Asher]

My two sisters and I and that we did bits of acting. The only thing we did together was Jane and I did one of those episodes of Robin Hood that you mentioned we played in. There was one called Children of the Greenwood when we played a brother and sister peasant couple. Whereas in the other episodes I did, I played Prince Arthur. Rather posher. But no, we. Yeah, so we were all signed and all worked and all enjoyed it, but Jane enjoyed it the best and also

[Terry Gross]

was the best at it and had

[Peter Asher]

a career and built a very fine acting career which persists to this day.

[Terry Gross]

I mean, part of the reason why you became an actor is that you and your two sisters had red hair. So you all had red hair.

[Peter Asher]

That's the reason we got signed. Yeah. Some agent spotted us and said, oh, you know, they're very picturesque or something.

[Terry Gross]

Yeah. But most of the stuff you were in was probably black and white.

[Peter Asher]

Yes. And we were never, all three of us in something together. That's why if you look at the casting directory of that era, it has to say in the black and white, alongside the black and white photographs, it says all have red hair in big letters. Because that was not evident from the photos in the guide because they couldn't afford color printing at that point.

[Terry Gross]

So let's get back to you touring. So when you first got to America, what struck you as musically most different about the US versus England?

[Peter Asher]

Everything was different. The radio stations were completely different. You know, we only had the BBC. You had all these brilliant little stations where the DJ actually played the records himself, which in the BBC never happened. Somebody else, you know, put the, put the needle in the groove and so on. It was very organized. And then as a jazz fan, the craziest thing was, you know, in England when if a jazz, legendary jazz player came to England, they'd be playing concert halls and being treated with extreme respect. And in New York, you know, there's all these jazz clubs and all our heroes were playing these places that were like scummy kind of smoke ridden little jazz clubs, which was very exciting for Us. But there was a huge difference in how they treated the music. I already had copies of Downbeat with all the jazz clubs I wanted to go to circled. I knew who was playing where and when and so on. And I remember going to see people like Roland Kirk and. Whereas in England we'd see Thelonious Monk in Royal Festival Hall. So their attitude to music was completely different, at least to jazz.

[Terry Gross]

In the 60s, while you were performing and recording with Gordon, your singing partner, you also became the co owner of a bookstore and an art gallery that were part of London's underground culture of the time. Describe what was new about the clothes, the music and the sense of liberation after growing up during the period England was rebuilding and suffering food shortages after World War II.

[Peter Asher]

Absolutely. Well, rationing. People are amazed to realize that rationing didn't end till 1956. The last item, whatever was the last thing that was still rationed.

[Terry Gross]

And what year were you born?

[Peter Asher]

44. So you know, yes, it was a big change and I think that is part of it. Because the Britain as we grew up was everything was rationed, everything was gray and standardized and there were shortages of everything. And we very much admired, you know, the spirit of the Blitz and all that stuff and tighten your belt and, you know, fight them in the beaches and the general spirit of the thing. And obviously we won the war in theory, but it certainly didn't feel like it. And we could see that America was the country that was. That was going to change the world from then on. The British Empire's days already were kind of numbered, it turned out. So the Churchillian attitude was sort of fading away. I think we decided, you know, that was all very well. We admired what our parents have accomplished. Thank God we won the war and all that stuff. But now it's time to have some fun. So we're going to wear silly clothes and bright colors and smoke dope and have a good time. And we did.

[Terry Gross]

So how did you change during that period?

[Peter Asher]

I wore silly clothes and dressed up and smoked dope. And smoked dope and had fun. It was that era in the 50s where you sort of tried to look like a grown up, you know. And then by the time we got to the 60s, you wanted to avoid desperately looking like a grown up. You wanted to look like somebody cool and young.

[Terry Gross]

So the gallery that you co owned is where John and Yoko met during a period when the gallery was exhibiting her work. Were you there when they met?

[Peter Asher]

I was there when John showed up, but I can't remember. I wasn't actually the person who introduced them or anything, but John came in his Mini Cooper with a chauffeur. And yeah, it was John Dunbar who ran the art half of the Indica operation, and he'd seen Yoko or talked to Yoko or something, and he suggested that Yoko would be a good person to be, you know, exhibited in our gallery, which she was indeed. I certainly saw John there at one point, but I don't think I was the person who actually physically introduced them. So the gallery, even though sometimes they get blamed for it in that context,

[Terry Gross]

but that gallery was the place that the whole controversy started about whether Yoko broke up the Beatles.

[Peter Asher]

Well, exactly. I mean, it's funny because I tell the story and as part of my stage show, which is a bit half stories, half music, when I tell that story, it gets such wildly different reactions at different days because sometimes it's a, ah, you know, what a sweet love story. Other times it's kind of, I don't know. And then finally one time that only this happened, as soon as I told the story, somebody jumped up to their feet and said, it was you. You broke up the Beatles. And I had to say, no, I didn't, you know, because I didn't.

[Terry Gross]

Not your fault. You were not my fault.

[Peter Asher]

Exactly. Exactly. So.

[Terry Gross]

So I think this is a good time to take another break. If you're just joining us, my guest is Peter Asher, and the new documentary about him is called Everywhere Man. We'll be right back after a short break. I'm Terry Gross, and this is FRESH air.

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[Terry Gross]

This is FRESH air. I'm Terry Gross. Let's get back to my interview with Peter Asher. Americans first knew him as half of the sixties British invasion band Peter and Gordon. Their hits included A World Without Love, Nobody I Know, and I Go to Pieces. Asher went on to become a Grammy winning record producer. His two most enduring music relationships were with James Taylor and Linda Ronstadt. So in terms of your music life, you went through a transitional time in the late 60s. Gordon Waller, your singing partner, decided he wanted to go solo and you knew that you wanted to produce recordings.

[Peter Asher]

I did. The minute I went into the recording studio and figured out what producers did, I thought this would be so cool. I love the idea of being able to influence the arrangement and, and mix and sound and identity, musical identity of a song.

[Terry Gross]

Before you had produced any record, you became the first A and R man for the Beatles new Apple record label. A and R stands for artists and repertoire. Describe what your job was.

[Peter Asher]

Well, Apple took this very bold step of actually soliciting tapes because normally there's kind of no unsolicited material was supposed to be sent in to most major record companies, companies. But we actually took ads going, you know, send your tapes to Apple Records. And God, did they ever. We got giant mailbags full of tapes. And the sad thing was they mostly were not any good. And not just that it'd be weird stuff like somebody sends in 100 pages of lyrics that they know John Lennon is anxiously awaiting to write music for and things like that. And you'd suddenly realize there's an awful lot of odd people out there who think they should need to be signed to Apple Records. But eventually, of course, we did find a few good people, but usually not, sadly through the unsolicited tapes. They usually came through connections or friends or coincidences like me meeting James and things like that.

[Terry Gross]

Why did the label go through that route?

[Peter Asher]

Because it was the spirit of Apple. I think the idea that we are the first label who's going to really pay attention to artists and take them seriously because everyone has trying to get a record company to listen to you and they refused. You know, until you had a manager, until you went through proper channels, it was really hard to do that. So we were kind of going, we wanted to be the ones who we got it, you know, if you're sitting in your bedroom writing songs, you don't have to keep them a secret anymore. Send them to us.

[Terry Gross]

Well, the first person you signed was James Taylor. And you did not find him in the slush pile. How did you find him?

[Peter Asher]

Well, when Gordon and I played America, we were supplied backup bands kind of locally. There'd be some promoter in, say, the Midwest or something would find a band to back you up. And usually we'd just find an out of work local group who would do it for cheap. And so the quality of those bands varied enormously. But one band that I actually liked that came to us in that manner was a band called the King Bees. And one of the King Bees was a guitar player called Danny Korchmar. And Danny and I, when the King Bees were backing us up on the road, became great friends. We remain great friends to this day. He's a brilliant guitar player and a remarkable man. And then subsequently, Danny was in a band with his childhood friend James Taylor. That band was called the Flying Machine. And it suffered all the vicissitudes that living in New York could convey. And, you know, there were drug problems and money problems and food problems and all this other stuff going on. So finally that band broke up. James decided to go to London. And when Danny found this out, he said to James, you should look at my friend Peter Asher. He's okay. And we toured together for, you know, a while back. And so that's how I got up. My phone rang and this guy, aunt said, you know, very sort of cultured, slightly Southern accent, explained that he was friend of Cooch's. And, you know, and I said, great, you know, if you're in London, come over. I mean, come and visit. So he came to dinner the following evening, and he'd already made a demo tape the previous week. And he played me a couple of songs on the tape, and I was completely blown away. And then he picked up my guitar and just leaning in the corner of the room and played me something live. And I couldn't believe it. I thought his guitar playing was exceptional. His singing was exceptional, and the songs were brilliant. I can wax on about each of them if needed because they were all different. I mean, his guitar playing was slightly classical, but with jazz kind of harmonies on it. He listened to a lot of Manhattan records, and his singing style owed more to Ray Charles and Sam Cooke. And so I said, look, you know, this is amazing. I love your music. I've just got this new job, as it happens. I'm head of NR for a record label. Would you like a record deal? And he kind of went, yes, please, I'd love one. And that was that. So he was the first artist signed to Apple Records. I took him into Apple offices the next day or the following day, I'm not sure. And Paul and George were both there at the time. So they came in and sat and listened to James sing a couple of songs and kind of went, yes, we agree. I mean, I was gonna sign him anyway, but obviously getting the bosses on side was very important.

[Terry Gross]

What was your vision for him? What did you encourage him to do?

[Peter Asher]

Just keep writing some great songs. Cause I loved his songs. And then we started talking about the kind of record we should make. And that's when I decided that on this particular album, on the Apple album, I orchestrated it quite a bit. I had a friend of mine called Richard Hewson, who was a jazz guitar player and a classical music composer, to write some arrangements for us. Because I was most anxious that people take James seriously, that they not think he's just, yeah, oh, it's another long haired folkie. Because he definitely wasn't and isn't. Because that was the thing of that era. If you sang and played the acoustic guitar, you were a folk singer, whether you sang folk songs or not. But in this case. So we made. That's why we made the first album. And that album, as you probably know, was not tremendously successful. It just laid the groundwork for the first album we made when we got to America.

[Terry Gross]

Yeah, you left with James Taylor for the U.S. which is where you recorded his second album.

[Peter Asher]

Correct.

[Terry Gross]

And you left Apple for good. You hadn't stayed at Apple very long.

[Peter Asher]

No, I would have got. If I hadn't left, by the way, I would have got fired. Because Alan Klein came in. Well, because Alan Klein was coming in and firing everybody. I could see the writing on the wall. So I wrote Alan a letter of resignation. But he was in charge of Apple overall at the time. And I'm sure you've read about the fights between John and Paul, about whether Alan Klein was evil or not, or whether he could be a good manager. And Paul lost the argument in this instance. And they hired Alan Klein to be the head of Apple. And it was clear that he was gonna fire everybody. And he did fire most people. So if I hadn't quit, I certainly would have been fired pretty in short order.

[Terry Gross]

Well, let's take a break here. My guest is Peter Asher. The new documentary about him is called Everywhere Man. We'll be right back this is FRESH air.

[Peter Asher]

The fatal shooting of a teenager at a protest in Seattle has gone unsolved for six years. This is open in your face. How are there no answers? Our investigation has uncovered new evidence and witnesses who say they've never talked to police. Did police ever call you?

[NPR Sports Announcer]

Not once.

[Peter Asher]

Listen to We Keep Us Safe, a new true crime series on the embedded podcast from NPR.

[Danny McBride]

On NPR's Wildcard podcast, actor and director Danny McBride says he has finally aged into his looks.

[Peter Asher]

I'm lucky because even when I was 21, I looked like I was 50 years old. So now I look at my, I look at of me when I'm here. Like I look older there somehow. This is weird.

[Danny McBride]

Watch or listen to that wild card conversation on the NPR app or on YouTube @NPRWildcard.

[Terry Gross]

This is FRESH AIR. Let's get back to my interview with Peter Asher. Americans first knew him as half of the sixties British invasion band Peter and Gordon. Their hits included A World Without Love, Nobody I Know and I Go to Pieces. Asher went on to become a Grammy winning record producer. His two most enduring music relationships were with James Taylor and Linda Ronstadt. So let's get back to talking about James Taylor. You recorded your second album with him in the US he was going through at various times he had a heroin habit.

[Peter Asher]

Yes.

[Terry Gross]

You probably don't want to dwell on this, but I would like to ask you if it interfered either with his music or with your relationship.

[Peter Asher]

It interfered with his music a lot. I mean, I think it takes up quite a bit of your attention, you know, being a junkie because it's quite a complicated process and you have to keep finding it and buying it, you know. So, yes, it changed that and our relationship. No, I mean, I knew very little about it. I had to sort of look up, you know, as it were, what drug addicts were were, you know, we didn't know a whole lot about it. So I just thought, oh, he spends a lot of time in the bathroom or whatever and worried about him. But eventually, you know, eventually we discussed it openly. And I was basically saying to him, what can I do to help? And so I helped him in whatever way I could. And of course, the actual process of, of becoming clean took him, you know, years. But eventually, of course, he did it very successfully.

[Terry Gross]

One of my favorite James Taylor recordings is Fire and Rain from his second album, sweet Baby James, which of course, he produced. And it's a song about a friend who died by suicide. Did he tell you the story behind the song?

[Peter Asher]

A little bit. I mean, he's told it publicly. I mean, Suzanne was a friend who had killed herself in. I think people didn't want to tell him or something, so there was some delay in him actually getting the information. And of course, there's the thing about flying machines in pieces on the ground, and there's been much misinterpreted and people think it relates to a plane crash and it doesn't at all. The flying machine was the band, as I explained before, that he was in with Cooch that broke up. So that was the flying machine in pieces on the ground.

[Terry Gross]

So I want to play Fire and Rain, which was recorded in 1970, and I want our listeners to know that it's Carole King on piano. And after we hear this, you can explain why and how you got her to play.

[James Taylor (singing)]

Just yesterday morning they let me know you were gone Suzanne, the plans they made put an end to you. I walked out this morning and I wrote down this song. I just can't remember who to send it to. I've seen fire and I've seen rain I seen sunny days that I thought would never end I seen lonely times When I could not find a friend But I always thought that I'd see you again

[Terry Gross]

okay, so how. How did you get Carole King to play piano on that, and why?

[Peter Asher]

Well, actually, Danny Korchmar is a key figure yet again in this story. Because when I came out to la, I wanted to put together a little band to play on the whole track because I wanted to keep it much simpler than the preceding album had been and to make sure that every song was based entirely around the arrangement that was sort of self contained in his guitar playing and his singing. And I found a drummer called Russ Kunkel. And Danny Korchmore himself was going to play guitar, obviously. And then I was trying to choose a piano player. And by this time I'd heard some of Carole King's demos. I already was a huge fan of hers. Goffin and King wrote so many of my favorite songs. Of course, you know, will you say Lumbee tomorrow? Being the first one when she was 18, that was number one all over the place. And that went on to do, you know, Natural Woman and I'm into Something Good and Up on the Roof. And I loved Carole King's piano playing specifically because it was very much an accompanist kind of piano playing. Not flash, not complicated, but just write, sort of sing a song, write a piano. So I got to meet Carol through Danny Kortchmar. I then asked Carol if she would consider playing on this James Taylor album that we were about to make, I said I would need you for about five days. I love your playing. I think you and James would sound great together. And she said maybe. And she didn't know who James was, so I invited her over to my house where James was staying at this point, and she sat down next to James at the piano bench. James played his guitar and she started playing piano. I suggested they just sit and start playing. And it worked perfectly. I thought her piano playing was exactly, exactly what I had in mind. And James loved her, too. And of course, he was a Carol fan already. And so we sort of booked Carol, as it were, as a studio musician for the next five days. And that was when we recorded every track on Sweet Baby James. And if you. If you look, you'll see that Carole King is credited on piano on every one of them.

[Terry Gross]

And that's how Carole King and James Taylor became friends and collaborators.

[Peter Asher]

Yes, exactly. So.

[Terry Gross]

And he recorded her song youg've Got A Friend before she did.

[Peter Asher]

Barely. Yeah, they were almost the same time.

[Terry Gross]

Mm. Did she have any problem? I mean, she would get composer royalty, so it would work in her favor in that respect. But, I mean, it could have taken away from her own recording.

[Peter Asher]

Yes, exactly. No, it was an act of great generosity. What actually happened was kind of interesting. When James was playing the Troubadour in Los Angeles after Sweet Baby James was a big hit, I persuaded Carol dashes play with James live, which she did. So when Carol agreed to play with James at the Troubadour, James had the idea that Carol might like to do a little set of her own, to get a feet wet, as it were, in terms of actually being a performer in front of a live audience. So she agreed to do that. And it was on the opening night of the Troubadour at the sound check that while Carol was sound checking her own piano, just to make sure it would all work and everything, she ran through a song she'd just finished writing the night before. And James and I were just sitting in the audience at the Troubadour in the empty house, and we heard Carol sing this brand new song she just finished called you'd've Got A Friend. And James fell in love with the song completely. So eventually we asked Carol if James could learn it and finally asked, very rather nervily, I think, whether she would consider letting us record it, even though knowing that she was going to record it as well. And both versions of youf've Got A Friend got made and the miracle is, you know, rather than hurting anybody, it was a huge success on both counts. You know, James version of youf've Got a Friend was a number one single all over the place. And Carol's version of youf've Got a Friend was a key track on the album that became Tapestry and went on to sell a gazillion billion copies.

[Terry Gross]

Yes, I think you were required to own a copy of that album.

[Peter Asher]

Exactly.

[Terry Gross]

Everybody I knew had a copy. So since you produced the James Taylor version, why don't we hear that? Do you want to say anything about the production?

[Peter Asher]

It's quite minimal. Carol didn't actually play on our version. It's basically James and Danny Korchmar on a couple of acoustic guitars and Russ Kunkel playing congas. I think largely, I think I may be playing cabasa on it, doing some little tiny backbeats on the chorus, but that's about it.

[Terry Gross]

Okay. This is James Taylor, you've Got a Friend, produced by my guest, Peter Asher.

[James Taylor (singing)]

When you're down and trouble and you need a helping hand, and nothing, oh, nothing is going right, Close your eyes and think of me, and soon I will be there to brighten up even your darkest night. You just call up my name and you know wherever I am, I'll come running. Oh, yeah, babe, to see you again. Winter, spring, summer will fall. Now all you got to do is call and I'll be there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you've got a friend.

[Terry Gross]

So that was James Taylor, and that recording was produced by my guest Peter Asher. There's a new documentary about him called Everywhere Man. We'll be right back after a short break. This is FRESH air.

[NPR Sports Announcer]

The knockout phase of the World cup is underway.

[Peter Asher]

At every stage, the excitement level goes up and up and up, creating core memories with strangers in a foreign land. This is what it's really about.

[NPR Sports Announcer]

Coverage of the highs and lows from the NPR Network continues. Find the World cup tab in the NPR app for more.

[Danny McBride]

You know that moment in an interview when someone says something that just blows you away? On NPR's Wildcard podcast, we've got a deck of questions that offers a shortcut to those moments. What do you admire about your teenage self? What's a lesson you keep learning again and again? When has selfishness served you well? I'm Rachel Martin. Listen to the Wildcard podcast only from npr.

[Terry Gross]

This is FRESH air. Let's get back to my interview with Peter Asher. Americans first knew him as half of the sixties British Invasion band Peter and Gordon. Their hits included A World Without Love, Nobody I know and I go to pieces. Asher went on to become a Grammy Award winning record producer and he worked extensively with James Taylor and Linda Ronstadt. Let's talk about your recordings with and your relationship with Linda Ronstadt. You were recommended by a friend to go hear her. Now, she was already pretty famous because she had recorded and performed with the band Stone Ponies, so people knew who she was, but the band had broken up and she was kind of. Where was she in her career at this point when you heard her?

[Peter Asher]

I don't remember exactly. I suppose Different Drum was a hit and Long, Long Time was a hit, but she hadn't taken off in a huge way, I guess, and I hadn't heard of her. I mean, I'd heard the records, I think, on the radio, but I didn't know anything about her. And somebody recommended I go and see her. I said, go and see this girl who's playing at the Bitter End in New York, because she's amazing. And she was amazing in every respect. She looked amazing, she sounded amazing. She was amazingly smart and bright and brilliant and well read and fascinating as a person. So I was knocked out and her voice just impressed the hell out of me.

[Terry Gross]

Now I understand why you were excited about her. Why was she willing to sign with you?

[Peter Asher]

Well, she was thinking about changing managers. She was with a couple of people and at that point I think she was with Herbie Cohen, who turned out to be slightly dishonest. Apparently when the band got arrested at an airport with forged air tickets, he had something to do with it or something. But anyway, for whatever reason, she was looking for another manager.

[Terry Gross]

I think one of the things that she felt was that her input wasn't taken seriously by previous producers. That she was like the chick singer.

[Peter Asher]

Right. I think that was true. And same thing applies to record producer and manager, you know, both of which I was, in the case of James and eventually Linda.

[Terry Gross]

I think two of the greatest tracks on the first album that you did with her are Heart Like a Wheel, a song by Anna McGarrigal, and you'd're no Good. And I think she suggested Heart Like a Wheel. She had wanted to record it and I think everyone else who was working with her didn't.

[Peter Asher]

Yes.

[Terry Gross]

And you suggested the song you're no Good. What made you think of that song for her?

[Peter Asher]

I think Kenny Edwards, a bass player and was originally one of the Stone Ponies. I think he might have suggested it as well. We all knew the song. I'd learned it from the Swinging Blue Jeans English hit But he knew it from the. Whoever did the R and B version. And then we cut it a couple of different times trying to get it right. And the final version owes a great deal to the genius of Andrew Gold, a fantastic guitar player and keyboard player and drummer and bass player, that he played a lot of the most of the instruments on the final version of the record that we did. And we finally thought that we got it right. And I remember playing that back. And kind of rarely does one actually super confident that records are hit. But in this case, we were listening to you're no Good and kind of went, if that's not hit record, you know, I don't know what is, or I'll eat my hat or whatever the idiom is.

[Terry Gross]

Well, you didn't need to eat your hat, exactly. You did really well. So let's hear it. This is Linda Ronstadt, you're no Good, produced by my guest, Peter Ashen.

[Linda Ronstadt (singing)]

Feeling better now that we're through? Feeling better? Cause I'm over you? I learned my lesson and left the sky? Now I see how you really are. You're no good, you're no good? You're no good? Baby, you're no good. I'm not saying you're no good, you're no good, you're no good? Baby, you're no good.

[Terry Gross]

I broke a heart, it's gentle and true.

[Linda Ronstadt (singing)]

Well, I broke a heart over someone like you. I beg your forgiveness I said to me you're no good, you're no good, you're no good? Baby, you're no good.

[Terry Gross]

So that was Linda Ronstadt, you're no Good, produced by my guest, Peter Asher. One of the things that you did was you decided, like, the musicians are so important on recordings. You started putting their names on album covers. And a lot of album covers did not mention who the musicians were. It was a common practice to name them on jazz albums because those were instrumental albums.

[Peter Asher]

Yes.

[Terry Gross]

But most rock albums of the period were, you know, the front person was a vocalist. So talk about why you did it and the impact you think that had.

[Peter Asher]

Apparently it had a substantial impact according to the musicians, and I'm very glad if it did, because. Yes. I mean, Motown Records, for example, you had no idea who anybody was. I never saw anybody, any Motown players listed on any album. Supremes, Four Tops, nothing. And so. And that seemed to be fairly consistent throughout the industry. And I remember looking at records as, you know, as a fan back in London, I would always wonder who was playing on it and couldn't find the information. You know, the guy who took the album cover photograph was more likely to get a credit than the people who played all this breathtaking music. So it seemed to me entirely logical. You know, I wasn't doing anything magical and I just thought they should be listed because they played so well. So we put them on the back of the record. And apparently it did make a difference to those musicians because they would obviously get hired based on I want something that sounds like that, you know, and that's a good thing. So I still do that to this day, but it's more common these days.

[Terry Gross]

I want to thank you so much for talking with us. The film is fascinating, the documentary about you called Everywhere man. And I wish you good health and continued performances and producing.

[Peter Asher]

Thank you very much indeed.

[Terry Gross]

The new documentary Peter Everywhere man is in select theaters nationwide. Asher continues to tour his one man stage show, sharing stories and songs from his decades long career. This Halloween, he'll perform at a place he knows well that very rarely hosts public events, Abbey Road Studios. Tomorrow on FRESH air, President Trump is pushing Congress to pass a law that would require showing a passport or birth certificate to register to vote and create strict ID requirements to vote. The rules of the midterms are being rewritten from redistricting to campaign money. We talk with Ari Berman, who's covered voting rights for years at Mother Jones. I hope you'll join us to keep up with what's on the show and get highlights of our interviews. Follow us on Instagram P R FRESH air. Fresh Air's executive producer is Sam Brigger. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham. Our engineer today is Charlie Kyer. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Annmarie Boldonado, Lauren Krenzel, Teresa Madden, Monique Nasari, Susan Yakundi, Anna Bauman, and Nico Gonzalez Whistler. Our digital media producer is Molly CV Nesper. Roberta Shorrock directs the show. Our co host is Tanya Moseley. I'm Terry Gross.

[It's Been a Minute Host]

We're having such a sports summer. The New York Knicks won the NBA championship, the World cup is in full swing, and a new season of Love island has brought us back into the village. On It's Been a Minute, we talk about how this summer we're all coming together to root for our favorite sports teams and our favorite couples. Listen to It's Been a Minute on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[NPR Sports Announcer]

Whether you're dedicated to a team, I

[Peter Asher]

want to see them win.

[NPR Sports Announcer]

Rooting for a nation.

[Peter Asher]

I'm not even a soccer fan, but I'M just repping my people.

[NPR Sports Announcer]

Or just appreciate the joy the beautiful game inspires.

[Terry Gross]

No Scotland, no Patch.

[NPR Sports Announcer]

Find the World cup tab in the NPR app, home to all of NPR's coverage on and off the pitch.