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- [00:01]
Tonya Moseley
This message comes from Capital One. Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts. What's in your wallet terms apply. See capitalone.combank for details. Capital One NA member FDIC. This is FRESH AIR. I'm Tonya Moseley, and if you're ever in the French Quarter in New Orleans, chances are you've spotted my guest today, clarinetist and vocalist Doreen ketchens. For over 30 years, she's performed on the corner of Royal and St. Peter street four days a week, sometimes 12 hours a day with her band, Doreen's Jazz New Orleans. Doreen Ketchins has many nicknames, Lady Louie, Queen clarinet and Ms. Satchmo nods to her passionate performances of Dixieland and traditional jazz and for her ability to hit and hold high notes for long periods of time. Like the great trumpeter Louis Armstrong, Ketchins has performed for four US presidents, Bill Clinton, George H.W. bush, Ronald Reagan and Jimmy Carter. And initially, she played classical clarinet before her late husband, Lawrence Ketchens, introduced her to jazz while the two were students at Loyola University. Lawrence was an accomplished musician in his own right, too. As part of Doreen's ban, he he played the tuba, valve trombone, drums and piano, becoming a major attraction for his ability to play the sousaphone and drums at the same time. A few years ago, Ketchens fulfilled her dream of performing at the Kennedy Center. She's also played with orchestras around the world. Doreen Ketchens, welcome to FRESH air.
- [02:21]
Doreen Ketchens
Thanks for having me.
- [02:23]
Tonya Moseley
I want to offer my sincerest condolences on the loss of your husband Lawrence, who had just died this past January. And I had the pleasure of going down the rabbit hole of watching your performances. And aside from being utterly captivated, I was also just taken by what felt like magic watching the two of you performing together. Are you still performing?
- [02:50]
Doreen Ketchens
Yep. I mean, I don't want to get haunted for the rest of my life, you know, that's what he'd do. Used to always tell me, you know, you gotta play no matter what. So that's what I'm doing. And it's working. It's working. I get strength from just thinking about the times he's been in the audience, you know, and giving me a nod, you know, one way or the other.
- [03:22]
Tonya Moseley
It seemed like there was such a great love between the two of you, and your love language was the music. You all performed together for many decades. And I think maybe a beautiful way to start our conversation is to actually hear a little bit of the two of you. I watched this video of you two performing for the New Orleans jazz station wwoz, and there you are playing the clarinet and singing, and Lawrence was playing sousaphone and the drums at the same time. I don't actually think I've ever seen that in my life. I was thinking, how can I play a little bit of that performance?
- [04:05]
Doreen Ketchens
Yes, please.
- [04:06]
Tonya Moseley
The song is House of the Rising sun.
- [05:17]
Doreen Ketchens
And you are holies they call the Roman line. And now I know who I want. My mother.
- [05:51]
Tonya Moseley
That was my guest today, Doreen Ketchens and her late husband Lawrence, playing House of the Rising Sun. Doreen, what a remarkable performance. I mean, as I mentioned, Lawrence is playing the drums and blowing into that sousaphone, which is a type of tuba, at the same time. How did he figure out that he had that talent?
- [06:14]
Doreen Ketchens
We had drummer problems, and the drummer didn't show up, and he was tired of it, you know, and we were on the street. He said he wasn't that good anyway. I bet you I could play just as good as him and play the tour. And so he sat behind the drums, and he took one stick in his left hand, and he just started to do it. I mean, just like that. And it was there. He can't play roles and stuff like that, so he does the inflections. You know what I mean? If you're just listening to the drummer, you know, there's a lot of space in there, but if you're listening to the group, then he fills in all of these spaces that you would normally hear the drummer do. It's just amazing, you know, but necessity is the mother of invention, and he invented the tuber drummer.
- [07:06]
Tonya Moseley
One thing I notice is that you've got a growl that, you know, it's not only present in your singing voice, but we also heard it while you were playing the clarinet. How do you do that? Like, you make your clarinet growl.
- [07:20]
Doreen Ketchens
People have asked me about that growl a lot, so I did it. Actually, I did some videos on it on YouTube during the pandemic when I was going absolutely crazy because I couldn't go out and play. But there are two ways of doing a growl. There's one with the throat, you know, like that, like you're gargling. And there's another one with a tongue, like a Spanish R, you know? And both of them basically sound the same when I do them. But you pick one, you know, and I picked the Spanish R because I thought the transition to and from was smoother. So. And that's how I do it. I Just. That's how I do it. That's it.
- [08:02]
Tonya Moseley
How did you two start playing on the streets of the French Quarter?
- [08:06]
Doreen Ketchens
Well, we were away in Connecticut. We met at Loyola, and we had really good scholarships. But the. You know, when you get to be a junior, you know, well, tuition continuously goes up, whereas your scholarship stays the same. So in my junior year, you know, our junior year, we asked for more money. And, you know, universities, they don't really invest in, you know, student juniors that are already there, you know, and it hurt my feelings. So I started applying to different places and got accepted into a few. But the University of Hartford, the Hart School of Music, you know, had the most money. And I didn't realize the cost of living in Hartford was a whole lot more. But it still worked out okay. And I went there and I stayed on campus for the first semester. Didn't like it. So I found me a nice apartment off campus for the following semester. And I stayed there, and it was good until they stole my car. I stopped in to take a nap, and when I came out, there was nothing there. My car was gone. My clarinet was in my car because clarinets were in my car because I was taking a nap. You know, I thought I'd just hop on back. But anyway, they eventually found my car. And the only reason they took everything out of there except the clarinet, because the latch on the case came loose and there were two clarinets in there. And so when they picked it up, all of the pieces just sprawled all over the trunk. And so they didn't bother picking them up or nothing. And so my clarinets were intact, which was cool, because that was the biggest thing that was in the car. But once they stole my car and Lawrence was still here, he was going to Xavier at the time, and he said, man, she can't be out there by herself. She's too far and she's alone. I gotta go. And while we were there, he got us some work with this company called the Landeman Agency. And they threw parties, you know, corporate events and stuff like that. And, you know, it was nice that they had this exclusive New Orleans band. And so, you know, we worked that way. And that's how I started practicing, basically, you know, just playing the music. I just played melodies in the beginning. But after a while, you know, I started, you know, improvising just a tiny bit. And so we're in Connecticut, and we're doing pretty good. And then Lawrence's father dies, and actually, his father was sick, and we went down and we got married there. Because, you know, he wanted his father to see him married. I mean, we were going to get married anyway, but we pushed it forward at that point. And then. And his father died. And a month and a day later, my father died. And, you know, well, you don't know, but I'm the youngest of three, and he's the youngest of three. He had two sisters, and I had two brothers. And we were caretakers, you know what I mean? We're the ones that took care of our parents and stuff like that. So we didn't want to be so far away. We wanted to try and be here for as long as we could with our mothers, you know, as they transitioned from having partners to not having any at all. And so we came down and we started doing whatever we could, you know, to make ends meet. And we were walking in the French Quarter one day, and we saw some people playing on the street. And Lawrence said, hey, look, we could do that. I'm like, man, you must be crazy. I've been to college. I'm not playing on the street. But love makes you do crazy things. And, you know, we went out there and played, and I was okay because we were together, you know, and got a little following. You know, people liked us. We were young, cute, and all that stuff. And the musical, actually, yeah, it's approaching four, you know. Yeah.
- [11:57]
Tonya Moseley
I love watching the videos of you and your band. And I was just thinking about that experience of seeing basically, like, a concert, these expert musicians in an accessible space when you're out on the street. But was it always so welcoming out there? I know it can be, like, notoriously competitive among musicians jockeying for space when you're a street musician.
- [12:25]
Doreen Ketchens
Oh, yeah. I mean, but we, you know, sometimes we sleep on the spot. I mean, you do what you have to do, you know, and it was the two of us, so it was easier to fight. So it, you know, it was kind of set up for. For victory, you know, as far as, you know, as long as we weren't lazy and, you know, you had to deal with the people who, for some reason, they moved to the French Quarter and weren't quiet. I don't understand that at all. But they called.
- [12:53]
Tonya Moseley
Oh, you mean the people who live. Yeah, the people who live there.
- [12:57]
Doreen Ketchens
Yeah, man. You know, they said, I don't want to hear the music. And, like, bruh, you in the French Quarter. What do you expect? You know? But, yeah, so. And then, you know, you got to deal with police who are having a bad day, you know, and stuff. So, yeah, it Gets kind of challenging, but, you know, it's fun. And it was fun creating together. It was fun growing together. It was fun just making music and, you know, making people stop. I mean, because, you know, street chops are different. You know, you go out there and you set up, and most people think, you know, you're on drugs or something's wrong with you, and so they pass by you or decide they're going to pass by you, but then you start playing and they stop, and, you know, you're on the street. You got to make people stop and listen and then give you money. You know, we're extremely blessed because, you know, we always seem to find that combination that makes people say, oh, my goodness. And they still do it.
- [13:58]
Tonya Moseley
And it's grand, you know, to watch you perform. You really are. You're like putting your whole body into it. Your eyes are closed. And, I mean, I guess that's not unusual. I mean, when you are, like, intensely focused on your instrument. I've heard you say when you're playing, you're constantly digging for more information within yourself. And I was like, wow, really taken by that, but also wondering more of what you mean.
- [14:30]
Doreen Ketchens
I mean, just like with anything else, you know, if you're a parent, you want to be a better parent than your parent, even though you had a great parent, you know, But I just don't want to fall into a rut. People are growing up listening to what I'm doing, what I did, and, you know, I want to be above that. It's flattering in some senses. You know, it's insulting because people steal your licks and everything else, and they don't acknowledge it, you know, but it's still, you know, you want to stay ahead of the game. You want to be the best. Louis Armstrong is like, a big influence on me, and I have listened to. Well, I thought up until the other day, actually, I thought I listened to everything that was out there by Louis Armstrong, but there's always something new, you know, But I can hear the same song over that I've heard for hundreds of times and find something new inside of it. It's amazing.
- [15:40]
Tonya Moseley
Is there a favorite Armstrong? I know that's like asking, is there a favorite child? But is there a favorite song of his that you. Or you go back too often?
- [15:52]
Doreen Ketchens
Yeah. That is like asking about a child, you know, I mean, because there's some that strike me in certain ways and others that strike me in others, you know, I mean, when you say that, you know, La Vie en Rouge comes to mind. And probably because my daughter hates it.
- [16:11]
Tonya Moseley
Oh, really? Why?
- [16:13]
Doreen Ketchens
She says, yeah, but. And then, you know, she got. She got. She fell in love and stuff like that, and she, like, understood it, you know, and stuff like that. But La Vieanne Rose comes to mind because, you know, he had a way of doing things, you know, sort of like Nat Kinko, you know, you can hear Nat King Cole singing French in Spanish. It ain't the best French in Spanish, you know. But it's great, you know, because he had that respect, you know, for it. And you can hear Louis do all kinds of different kinds of music. You still know it's Louis first note, you know. I mean, so I just aspire to just be great. And in order to be great, you gotta keep aspiring to be great, you know?
- [17:00]
Tonya Moseley
Do you have your own take on that favorite. On your favorite Armstrong song? And if so, can you play a little bit of it? Not the whole thing, but just a bit.
- [17:10]
Doreen Ketchens
Oh, la vie on Rose. I set myself up for that, didn't I? Let me see it. When you speak Angels sing from above Every day what seems to turn into love songs Give your heart and soul to me I'm Life will always be long beyond Rose.
- [18:30]
Tonya Moseley
Thank you so much for that. I mean, you're nicknamed all of these names, you know, Lady Louie for a reason. And that's very clear, some of the reasons why. But I'm very curious to know, when did you first discover yourself in Armstrong? Do you remember when you. You first heard that within his music yourself?
- [18:52]
Doreen Ketchens
Yeah, I didn't. I didn't realize it at all. I was just doing what I do. I was just learning songs and playing songs. And somebody asked me, you know, when I was. And I was singing, you know, they said, how do you do that with those words? And I'm like, what are you talking about? And, you know, just Louis spoke like my dad, you know. And so without realizing it, you know, instead of saying word, I say, worried. You know, stuff like that. You know, because that's what I grew up with. You know, you change with society. You know, you go to college and you say, well, that word. And they're like, what the heck are you talking about? You know what I mean? But, you know, it always comes back when I do that. And a lot of the melodies, you know, the way he interpreted the melodies and stuff, I really, really, really liked it, you know, and it appealed to me. So, you know, sometimes, you know, I start off like I learned the melody right from him. You know, I'll do exactly what he does. But as, you know, as I play it, as I develop, you know, with the song, it becomes me. I change a few things, you know, because he played a trumpet and I play a clarinet, you know, and he was a much older man, I was a much younger woman. And just other things that come into play that you don't expect, but they do because it's human nature, you know. So, yeah, I didn't realize it, but once I realized it, I embraced it and just rolled with it, you know, and I'm still rolling with it.
- [20:32]
Tonya Moseley
Our guest today is jazz clarinetist and vocalist Doreen Ketchens. We'll be right back after a short break. I'm Tanya Moseley, and this is FRESH air.
- [20:41]
C
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- [20:51]
Doreen Ketchens
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- [21:06]
C
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- [21:12]
Tonya Moseley
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- [21:28]
C
Fresh AIR comes from why presenting the Pulse, a weekly podcast about health and science. Each episode is full of great stories and big ideas fueled by curiosity and wonder. Can you learn to listen to your intuition? What should electric cars sound like? Why can it be so hard to get an accurate diagnosis? How do fungi communicate? Check out the Pulse, available where you get your podcasts. This message comes from Carvana. Discover your car's worth with Carvana Value Tracker. Stay up to date when your car's value changes. Always know your car's worth with Carvana Value Tracker.
- [22:06]
Tonya Moseley
Hi, this is Molly Sivi Nesburg, digital producer at Fresh air. And this is Terry Gross, host of the show. One of the things I do is write the weekly newsletter, and I'm a newsletter fan. I read it every Saturday after breakfast. The newsletter includes all the week shows, staff recommendations and Molly picks, timely highlights from the archive. It's a fun read. It's also the only place where we tell you what's coming up next week. An exclusive, so subscribe@whyy.org fresh air and look for an email from Molly every Saturday Morning, Doreen. You're a fixture in the French Quarter of New Orleans, but tell us a little bit more about the area that you grew up in.
- [22:47]
Doreen Ketchens
I grew up in the Treme, and, yeah, a lot of people are familiar with that neighborhood because of the TV series. And I grew up in a house that I was christened in. Actually, it used to be a church. It was a church, and I was christened in that very house. And then it became a whole bunch of other things, but, yep, right in the middle. And my parents had a sweet shop and.
- [23:13]
Tonya Moseley
Named after me.
- [23:14]
Doreen Ketchens
Named it after me. Yeah, yeah. And that's a whole nother New Orleans traditional story in itself, like naming stores.
- [23:24]
Tonya Moseley
And things after each other or.
- [23:26]
Doreen Ketchens
Oh, no. See, I went to a nursery school called Marietta Battery, and like any other institution, you know, people need to raise money. And so we have these innovative ways of raising money here in New Orleans, you know, I mean, you could sell things like world's finest chocolate, which everybody knew Mama has at least tried once, and, you know, oranges, jams, and other candies. But I wanted to be queen of my nursery school. And every year, they would have a fundraiser, which would be a Mardi Gras ball. And at Mardi Gras ball, you get to dress up, you know, and walk down the aisle, and, you know, there's a king and his queen in their court. And, you know, I just thought it was the coolest little thing. I went there two years in a row. But so it came time to raise the money, and what you do is you do things. So my mom, she decided to sell candy from the front room, you know, so she'd go and buy some wholesale candy. And, you know, we were right down the street from the school, so naturally, you know, kids would come and, you know, get on the doorstep and buy candy.
- [24:43]
Tonya Moseley
You had to be pretty popular.
- [24:46]
Doreen Ketchens
Yeah, yeah. Learn how to fight, too. But so, you know, she was pretty good, you know, sell candy and cookies and stuff like that and raised some pretty good money and turned it in. But when we turned it in, I wasn't queen. I didn't have enough money to be queen. I was third maid, and it was cool, you know, I got to wear this big, beautiful yellow dress. But I wasn't queen. When the queen walked up, you know, the aisle, I was like, man, look at that, man, I could be queen. So we started early that next year. You know, of course, they never stopped coming to the door anyway. And by the time it was time to turn in the money, we had a whole lot More money than we had the year before. But it was my last year there, you know, I had basically aged out. So my mom, you know, she explained that to me. I was 4. And she said, now, you know, I know you want to be queen, but we could do, you know, one of two things. We could take all of this money and turn it in and you can be queen. You walk down that aisle as queen. And I'm like, yeah. She said, or we could take half the money and you probably won't be queen, but you could still walk down the aisle and you'll have some money saved. You know, you start saving money and, you know, you grow up, you have more. I was four. So what I wanted to do was take all the money and even add some more and be queen. I mean, I just did, you know. But I looked at my mom and I know what I was supposed to say. Even though I was four, I knew what I was supposed to say. So I said, okay, we'll do that. And that's what we did. And I still wound up being first maid. But I was okay with it because when the queen walked down the aisle this time, I'm like, yeah, I gave you that. But the kids kept coming to the door. And there was a barbershop next door run by two twins, and they closed up. And, you know, my dad got the bright idea of, hey, people, come to the door anyway, come to the shop, you know. So he inquired about, you know, renting the shop and got it. And we lived next door and we had a sweet shop right there. And my mom started. And that's why they named it Doreen Sweet Shop, because it always, you know, brought upon by me wanting to be queen.
- [27:26]
Tonya Moseley
I mean, what kinds of stuff did you all sell that you sold all the kinds of sweets that were a part of that contest. But what did, what did the kids come there for?
- [27:35]
Doreen Ketchens
Oh, I mean, sugar. Sugar. That's what they came there for. Cookies with sugar, candies with sugar, drinks with sugar. You know, on the way to school, my mom would get up early anyway and she'd be open, and she'd open all day long and close at about 9:00 at night. And she would be in there because my dad, he worked for the park service, so, you know, he had a 9 to 5. But she was okay with it because it was hers, you know, and she was home. And my mom would cook three meals a day, every single day and run the shop. I don't do that now. I mean, you know what I'm saying, yeah, I was really popular, you know, because, you know, my parents had a sweet shop. Of course, you know, you get the negative influences, too. And, you know, people telling you, you better bring me some candy or I'm gonna beat you up. I mean. Cause you.
- [28:27]
Tonya Moseley
Were you helping your mom make the candy, too?
- [28:30]
Doreen Ketchens
No, no, no. It was. It was. We didn't start making stuff until I got to, like, college. But before then, it was just, you know, just buying things wholesale, like chips and, you know, candies and cookies and stuff like that. And they'd come, you know, I was made to work in the store and didn't really like it that much, you know. So a typical kid, you know.
- [28:57]
Tonya Moseley
Please tell the story of how the clarinet became your instrument, because it's an infamous story that you tell that you started playing to get out of a pop quiz in elementary school.
- [29:10]
Doreen Ketchens
Yep. It was amazing. We were at my favorite subject, which was lunch, and there was a talk of a pop quiz. And it's like they said, we're gonna have a pop quiz when we go back. And I'm like, we ain't never had no pop quiz, you know. Well, of course we got back up, and there was a pop quiz, and I got the stink eye from so many people, you know. But the quiz was as such, because there was, like, 30 kids in the classroom. And he'd go down the line, he'd ask one question, and if you got it right, you passed. If you got it wrong, you failed. And I looked out the window and I said, oh, God, he'd get me out of this. I'll do anything. And about two minutes later, the principal came on a loudspeaker, and she said, anybody interested in joining the band? Report to the band room immediately. And I'm like, oh, my goodness gracious. I raised my hand. Of course, everybody else raised their hand, too, but by God's grace, he picked me. And I'm running down the hall. I was so happy, you know. And we went to the band room, and, you know, we spent all our time in that classroom. But when I got to the band room, it was a huge room, and it was beautiful. They had music notes and, you know, pictures of instruments all over the walls and stuff like that. And I saw the flute, and I was like, oh, wow, look at that. I said, I'm going to play the flute. The band director, Mr. Berthelot, you know, he started out, you know, introducing different instruments and saying different things. And then he asked, you know, he went row by row asking, what do you want to play? Well, I already knew what I wanted to play because the flute was so sleek and so silver and so beautiful. But the girl in front of me, she said the flute. The girl next to her, she said the flute. And it went on and on about seven or nine times. And by the time he's getting close to me, I was like, well, I don't want to play that now. It's pretty common instrument, and the clarinet was right next to it. So I said, I'll play that. And that's what I was playing with, clarinet. Of course, they had about five or six other girls that said clarinet because they were boy instruments and girl instruments, you know.
- [31:22]
Tonya Moseley
Right, right.
- [31:24]
Doreen Ketchens
But I was the first one, so I was all right with that. And it worked out pretty good.
- [31:28]
Tonya Moseley
Let's take a short break. If you're just joining us, my guest is clarinetist and vocalist Doreen Ketchens. We'll continue our conversation after a short break. This is FRESH air.
- [31:38]
C
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- [31:59]
Tonya Moseley
Today you're classically trained. When did jazz become your genre?
- [32:07]
Doreen Ketchens
Oh, that Lawrence. We were in college and he knocked on my practice room one day. I went to this performing arts school called noca, you know, New Orleans center for Creative Arts. And I used to practice in his closet, the janitor's closet. And in the janitor's closet, you could hear the clarinet all through the school. But since it was a performing art school, nobody complained, you know. And one day Ellis Marcellus knocked on my door and he said, hey, you sound pretty good on that, you know. You ever thought about playing some jazz? And I'm like, no. And he said, well, why don't you listen to some jazz clarinetists and see what you think, you know? Like. Okay. And Ellis Marsalis always did intimidate me, you know.
- [32:54]
Tonya Moseley
And for those who don't know, I mean, he's a legend. But he was an acclaimed pianist and educator, and his sons of are legends in jazz, too.
- [33:04]
Doreen Ketchens
Yeah. So, you know, I was like, he said, why don't you take a listen and, you know, let me know what you think. And I'm like, okay. And see, I wasn't enthused because that's homework, you know, in addition to everything else. I had to do now I got to go to the library because, you know, you can't just take out your phone and go and look for, you know, I got to go to the library. I got to check this out and all this other stuff. But I did, because I knew he was coming back, you know, and I listened, and. And I heard a lot of clarinetists, you know, George Lewis, you know, Pete Fountain and, you know, Benny Goodman, Artie Shaw. And I respected what they did, but we were different. You know, I was concentrating more on tone and technique, and they were more concentrated on jamming, you know, bending the notes and not really concerned about tone and stuff like that, you know, so it wasn't my thing. And so, you know, a few days later, he knocked on the door again, and he said, well, what'd you think? And I was like, you know, it's really not my thing. I can appreciate what they're doing, but it's not my thing. And he said, well, you're entitled to your opinion. And as I tell you that, I could still see him saying that before he closed the door. And I just. I thought the world was going to end because I just made Mr. Marcellus angry, you know, but he wasn't. He wasn't angry. He was just chilling, you know? And then I went to Loyola, and just to cut the story short, I was practicing, practice room, and, you know, there was a knock on the door. And I looked at the door. It was in a cubicle, so you could. You know, the doors were glass. This gorgeous, absolutely gorgeous dude was knocking on the door. And I'm like, may I help you? And he said, almost verbatim, I kid you not. He said, you know, you sound really good on that clarinet. You know, you ought to try playing some jazz. And I was like, okay. So that's how I started playing the jazz.
- [35:05]
Tonya Moseley
Is it possible for you to play us something to give us an example of the difference between the classical clarinet that you were really into before Lawrence and then what you ultimately came to do?
- [35:19]
Doreen Ketchens
Well, how about just Mary Had a Little Lamb, and I'll just give you an idea, right? So, you know, straight tone, you fill the horn up with air and stuff like that, and, you know, when you go high. So. But when I play jazz, you know, I. I still consider those qualities, you know, the quality of the tone and the quality of technique and stuff like that. But, you know, guys would do. You know what I mean? Stuff like that, which was great in its own respect, you know, but just not. I mean, it's like taboo you know, for somebody who, you know, played classical clarinet, you know, but, you know, by the grace of God, I figured out a way to combine the two because I wanted to hang with this tuba player, you know, this gorgeous tuba player. So I go something lame.
- [36:50]
Tonya Moseley
So, you know, there's this tradition in New Orleans that's associated with the celebration of the dead or recently departed. I mean, really, Mardi Gras is the ultimate celebration of death and renewal. And you grew up seeing these second line parades happen and watching other loved ones and music being such a part of that grieving process. And I'm just thinking about that when I'm thinking about Lawrence and his legacy.
- [37:22]
Doreen Ketchens
I mean, we'd be in that same fifth grade class where I, you know, we had the pop quiz and a second line would pass by. And sometimes they let us, you know, take a break and watch them through the window. And other times we just had to keep going, you know, while the second line passed. And we had a funeral home, you know, in my neighborhood, they had like four or five funeral homes, so there was always a jazz funeral. And I thought we were the only ones in the world that did that up until I became an adult and I started doing master classes and workshops, you know, around the world and started studying this stuff. But, you know, it's an old African tradition, and those Africans were enslaved, and they were spread all over the world. So you can find, you know, the celebration from this life to the other, you know, through some kind of music and song all over the world. You can find it in Japan, Germany, especially South America. You know, I think we do it the best. You know what I mean? We've grown up with being able to express ourselves through music. Even if you didn't play an instrument, you could dance, you know, My dad never played an instrument as far as I know, but he was a member of a social aid and pleasure club. And those were the guys that dress up and dance, you know, in front of the band. So when Lawrence and I would come to the living room to learn new songs, my dad knew all the songs. He called the titles to all the songs. So we grow up here. The music is in us, you know, and it's all around us. You can't avoid it. It's not like in the French quarters where, you know, people with a whole lot of money can complain to the police about the music, you know, and the police could come down and actually ask you to stop in the hood, you know, somebody playing music or practicing their trumpet or something like that. You can't call the police. Police not gonna even listen to you, you know, but people don't anyway, you know what I mean? Lawrence used to his mom used to make him play outside, go outside with him, hear all that? So the neighborhood was used to hearing him playing. He was used to playing whether you liked it or not. You know what I mean? So, yeah.
- [39:35]
Tonya Moseley
Have you been out in the street performing since he passed?
- [39:39]
Doreen Ketchens
No, I haven't been out in the street yet. I mean, played his memorial. But it's Mardi Gras, and we wouldn't be out there anyway this time of the year. They're too crazy around Mardi Gras time. And everybody's asking, hey, when are you coming out? And all this other stuff. And I say, oh, the weekend after Mardi Gras. And it'll probably be that. I'll probably do it. I'll have to. I mean, in the beginning when he first passed, I couldn't even listen to our music without breaking down. And, you know, I thought about it now when I was planning his memorial service, I said, you know, you play all of these funerals and second lines and stuff for strangers and friends, and you're not gonna play for your husband. You know, it doesn't make any sense. So I worked at it, and it's a state of mind. I gotta be I gotta cross, you know, I gotta step to the right or something like that. And then I'm okay. And I play and I can play like he's here. I mean, I still feel his presence. I really do. And I thank God for that because I don't feel alone in it. Our daughter's husband was deployed, so, you know, you could say she just happened to be home. But there's God, because she's there and her son's there and, and it's just beautiful, you know. And if she hadn't been there that morning when I woke up and he was gone, I would have been alone in that big old house, you know, I'd have still been all right. I'm still impressed with how I handled everything. But I wasn't alone. You know, they were there and asked God.
- [41:52]
Tonya Moseley
Doreen, let's take a short break, and if you're joining us, my guest is clarinetist and vocalist Doreen Ketchens. We'll continue our conversation after a short break. This is FRESH air. A very high moment that listeners might be familiar with is your performance in 2023 at the Kennedy Center. Ted Koppel and CBS Sunday MORNING followed you for that big night. And I want to Play a clip of you performing one of your legendary long notes. Let's listen. That was my guest, clarinetist and vocalist Doreen Ketchens, performing at the Kennedy center in 2023. My God, Doreen, have you ever or anyone ever counted how long the amount of time that you can keep a note?
- [43:03]
Doreen Ketchens
It varies. You know, there's a buggy driver who says she can hold her breath for two minutes. I don't know about all that, but when I was a kid and I was in junior high school, I used to hold my breath for nickels, you know, and get, you know, and I made a lot of money, you know, doing it. So I have, you know, it was no problem putting it in the clarinet, matter of fact. But it has to be a high note because they don't take that much wind. You know, it couldn't be a low note. I couldn't possibly do that on a low note because it takes too much wind. But with those high notes, sometimes, you know, instead of taking a breath at the end of it, you know, have to release.
- [43:43]
Tonya Moseley
Doreen, this has been such a pleasure to talk with you, and I really appreciate you taking the time in the midst of your grief to share your beautiful love story and the beautiful music that the two of you all made together. And I want to end maybe by asking you about this song that is on your latest cd, that was Lawrence's. Can you tell us about it?
- [44:11]
Doreen Ketchens
Yeah, it's called West Africa, and it's absolutely wonderful. It was a joint collaboration, but I just came up with the melody and the words, which came really easily because of what Lawrence established in the piece already. And my daughter and I, we have it on loop, you know, we just play it all day, every day, and it's just absolutely wonderful, you know, and. And even listening to it, you know, I tear up because so much of him went into it. And you can hear it. I mean, I can. I can see him in the studio, you know, because he was supposed to be doing harmonies, and he said, you're gonna think I'm crazy, but this is what I'm feeling. And it just went on and it's just beautiful. Just beautiful.
- [44:59]
Tonya Moseley
Doreen Catchens, thank you so much.
- [45:01]
Doreen Ketchens
Thank you.
- [45:35]
Tonya Moseley
That's Doreen Ketchens with her band Doreen's Jazz New Orleans from their album Walking through the Streets. Tomorrow on Fresh Air, two experts join us to explore the rapid dismantling of diversity, equity and inclusion, commonly known as dei, across public and private sectors. Once hailed as markers of social progress, conservative critics now portray DEI as emblematic of excessive woke culture. Join us to keep up with what's on the show and get highlights of our interviews. Follow us on Instagram @NPRFreshAir. Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham. Our managing producer is Sam Brigger. Today's senior producer is Teresa Madden. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Roberta Shorrock, Anne Marie Baldonado, Lauren Krenzel, Monique Nazareth, Thea Chaloner, Anna Bauman and Joel Wolfram. Our digital media producer is Molly CV Nesburg. Suzanne Nakunde directed today's show with Terry Gross. I'm Tanya Mosley.
- [46:57]
C
Hey, it's Scott Detrow, the host of Trump's Terms, a podcast where we bring you short, focused episodes about the 47th president and the biggest changes he is trying to make. A lot of those changes will be front and center during his address to a joint session of Congress on March 4th. In the days after, we will bring you stories not just about what he said, but about what is actually happening and what isn't happening. Listen to Trump's Terms from npr. Hey, it's hey Martinez. I work on a news show and yeah, the news can feel like a lot on any given day, but you just can't ignore la noticias when important world changing events are happening. So that is where the Upverse podcast comes in. Every single morning in under 15 minutes.
- [47:37]
Doreen Ketchens
We take the news and boil it.
- [47:38]
C
Down to three essential stories so you can keep up without feeling stressed out. Listen to the upverse Podcast from NPR.