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- [00:00]
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- [00:19]
Terry Gross
This is FRESH air. I'm Terry Gross. Our guest today is three time Tony Award winner Nathan Lane. He was just nominated for a Tony for his starring role as Willy Loman in the new Broadway revival of Arthur Death of a Salesman. The role is a departure from the comedic larger than life performances Lane is best known for, like in the Birdcage, Guys and Dolls and the Producers. Lane spoke with guest interviewer Sam Fragoso, host of the interview podcast Talk Easy. Here's Sam.
- [00:50]
Sam Fragoso
Since his Broadway debut at the tender age of 26 and Noel Coward's present laughter, Tony winner Nathan Lane has long been regarded as one of the great entertainers of the stage in the tradition of Ethel Merman, zero Mostel and Bill Silvers. But in the last decade, Lane couldn't help but think of Peggy Lee singing is that All There Is? Which inspired Lane to pivot to more dramatic roles. Hickey in the Iceman Cometh, roy Cohn in Angels in America and now Willy Loman in Death of a Salesman. In the hit new Broadway revival, Lane transforms as the prideful patriarch and traveling salesman, oscillating back and forth between bravado and desperation, an emblem of the dissolution of the American family and their dreams. Arthur Miller's 1949 Pulitzer Prize winning play has had several acclaimed productions led by great actors like Lee J. Cobb, Dustin Hoffman, Wendell Pierce and the late Brian Dennehy, who was a mentor to Lane. The Guardian has praised his portrayal as, quote, the crown jewel in a life spent on stage, end quote. The Tonys seemed to agree when the nominations were announced earlier this week. Nathan Lane, welcome back to FRESH air.
- [02:05]
Nathan Lane
Thank you. Thanks for having me.
- [02:07]
Sam Fragoso
You were nominated this week for a Tony for your performance as Willy Loman in Death of a Salesman. This marks, I think your seventh nomination, is that right?
- [02:16]
Nathan Lane
That is correct.
- [02:17]
Sam Fragoso
I've heard there are pre show rituals that performers have before they go on stage. Are there rituals or traditions you have the morning of Tony nominations?
- [02:32]
Nathan Lane
I sleep. I try to get as much sleep as possible because this is a big mountain to climb. So I don't have any rituals in the hopes of Tony nominations. I just hope for the best.
- [02:47]
Sam Fragoso
Why don't we hear a little bit of what that performance that you're nominated for sounds like? The play alternates between the past and Present. And so in this flashback, Willie has just come home from a sales trip up along the east coast where he's met by his two young boys.
- [03:02]
Nathan Lane
Where'd you go this time, dad? Well, I got on the road and I went north to Providence. Met the mayor. The mayor of Providence. He was sitting in the hotel lobby. What'd he say? He said, morning. And I said, you got a fine city here, Mayor. And then he had coffee with me. And then I went to Waterbury. Waterbury is a fine city. Big clock city. The famous one, Waterbury Clock. Sold a nice bill there. And then Boston. Boston is the cradle of the revolution. A fine city. And a couple of other towns in Massachusetts. And on to Portland and Bangor and straight home. Gee, I'd love to go with you sometime, dad. Soon as summer comes.
- [03:38]
Sam Fragoso
Promise.
- [03:38]
Nathan Lane
Oh, you and Happ and I. And I'll show you all the towns. America is full of beautiful towns and fine, upstanding people. And they know me, boys. They know me up and down New England, the finest people. And when I bring you fellas up, they'll be open sesame for all of us. Cause one thing, boys, I have friends. I could park my car on any street in New England and the cops protect it like their own. This summer, huh? You bet. We'll take our bathing suit. So carry your bags, Pop. Oh, won't that be something? Me coming into the Boston stores with you boys carrying my bags.
- [04:17]
Sam Fragoso
It's funny hearing that scene. Willie is out on the road selling. But when he comes back home, you can hear. Even there, he's selling a story or a dream. Even to his sons, there seems to be like another.
- [04:30]
Nathan Lane
And to his wife.
- [04:30]
Sam Fragoso
Sure. And to his wife. You've said before that when it comes to death of a salesman, its meaning to you changes depending on where you're at in your life, when you're in it.
- [04:41]
Nathan Lane
Oh, yeah.
- [04:42]
Sam Fragoso
So tell me, where has it landed with you in this stretch where you're performing? What is it? Six nights a week? Don't know how you're doing it. Where does the play land with you in this moment?
- [04:53]
Nathan Lane
I don't know how I'm doing it either, but Laurie Metcalfe and I are old school. We just. The show must go on. We do it.
- [05:03]
Sam Fragoso
I believe that's called masochism.
- [05:05]
Nathan Lane
Yes. Is it?
- [05:06]
Sam Fragoso
Maybe.
- [05:07]
Nathan Lane
I don't know. I like to think of it as professionalism. Look, it's. There's a reason it's a classic, that it's called the Great American Play. And when people come back and talk about it. If they're not weeping, they're saying things like, you were my father. And I think so often with this production, so many people say, I feel like I've never seen it before. It felt so modern. And also the notion of Willie often is the case in the play. He's fighting for his life. I mean, I think that's what makes him an interesting character. He's very flawed. He's a mass of contradictions and incredibly insecure. And he has this very misguided view of the American dream, which is that it's about his self worth. And his idea of success is all based on the opinion of others, which as an actor you certainly can relate to. His whole philosophy is it's about being well liked. It's not what you say, it's how you say it. Because personality always wins the day. And if you are well liked, you will never want. It's a very flawed view of how to succeed, but he totally believes in it and in this, his version of the American dream. And I guess for a while in the old days, you know, it worked to a certain degree. But now all of the people he used to go out and see who are friends on the road, they're either retired or dead. And being a traveling salesman is sort of fading away as well. So he's in a. In a desperate way. But in that scene, you're getting a glimpse into his psyche and they're trying to pretend that it's all okay when it's not.
- [07:18]
Sam Fragoso
The last time you played a salesman was over a decade ago in the Iceman Cometh. And you've said that production of Iceman Cometh, quote, changed the way I approach everything. What was that change?
- [07:32]
Nathan Lane
Well, I had been doing a musical on Broadway called the Addams Family, which had been reviled by the critics, and yet the public spoke, they wanted to see it. So while I was in that run, Charles Isherwood, who was at the New York Times then, wrote a very lovely and flattering piece about my An Assessment of My Career. And he referred to me as the greatest stage entertainer of the last decade, which was extremely complimentary. But I can always find the dark cloud in any silver lining. I was flattered but troubled by the word entertainer. But I appreciate it that he found me entertaining.
- [08:24]
Sam Fragoso
But is this kind of like a Joe Pesci and goodfellas like, why do you. What's funny about me Situation?
- [08:30]
Nathan Lane
I'm funny to you? I'm funny to you? Well, there was no threat of violence. I just felt I was more than just an entertainer. I saw myself as an actor. Now, having been doing this for 50 years. I may have been entertaining, but I was acting in all of those pieces, whether it was musical or straight play. So it got me a thinking. And so I thought, gee, is that how people perceive me? And I feel like I have more to offer as an actor. And maybe I have to challenge myself and also challenge the audience and see if they're willing to go on that journey with me. I wonder if I can shift that perception. So I thought, how can I do this? And I have no power in film or television, but in the theater I have a little bit. So I happened to read an interview with Brian Dennehy, a very old friend of mine, the late, great Brian Dennehy, and Robert Falls, his collaborator in theater. And they were discussing that collaboration, and at one point they wondered whether they would revisit the Iceman Cometh. And Dennehy had done it in 1990 with Bob, and very successfully. And he was thinking of playing the other character, Larry Slade. And they were wondering who might play Hickey if they did that. And I thought, aha, that would. That would really shake things up. And so I contacted Bob Falls, and I said, if you're really thinking about doing Iceman again, I would love to be considered for the role of Hickey. And here's why. The audience feels the same way the guys in the bar feel about Hickey, about me, which is, he's here to show us a good time. He's the life of the party. And then we pulled the rug out from under them. And I think that's an interesting dynamic. So I went to Chicago. I had six weeks of rehearsal. And then you have. Because it's a regional theater, you only have nine performances, and you open. And so because Britt Dennehy and I were doing this, people showed up, like, from New York, like Charles Isherwood, who drove me to this in the first place. So there was a lot of pressure on me. And then. So fortunately, it was very well received. It was sold out. The happy ending is. It worked. Eventually, I did shift the perception just a little. Just enough so that by the time I got to Angels in America and then Salesmen, it wasn't such a shock to people. Oh, Nathan Lane is doing Death of a Salesman. Oh, that's an Onion headline.
- [11:44]
Sam Fragoso
You have referred to your childhood as bad Eugene o'.
- [11:48]
Nathan Lane
Neill.
- [11:50]
Sam Fragoso
Is there a good Eugene o'? Neill?
- [11:54]
Nathan Lane
Right. Well, I was just making a joke, but because I come from an Irish background, it was a Way of. To tell you the truth, it was a way of avoiding talking about the real facts of my childhood. I just sort of covered it in a general way with a joke, which is typical of me. But the facts were that my father was an alcoholic and. And my mother, eventually, after his death and her own mother's death, my grandmother, she had a breakdown. And it took about five years and it was finally diagnosed as what was called manic depression then. So I had to grow up fast. My father, I didn't have much of a relationship with because he was really not home a lot. And when he was, he was drunk or recovering, which was worse. You know, my memory is that, you know, he would come home, he was holding onto the walls, he couldn't walk. When my mother would get him to go to aa, which she did a couple of times, and he had. So he had two periods that I remember of sobriety. And she. My mother would say to me, when he was sober, she said, you would always. I was only, you know, nine, 10. He died when I was 11. And she said I would stay next to him, I'd stay close to him and hold his hand. And one time, I remember we were in this apartment and it was very cold and we were. By now it becomes Dickensian. We were by a radiator and he was talking to me and he said, you know, you're going to have to learn how to take care of yourself because your mother and I aren't going to be, you know, around all the time. And I was, I guess, nine. And I was like, why is he telling me this now?
- [14:03]
Sam Fragoso
A lot to lay on a nine year old.
- [14:06]
Nathan Lane
A lot to lay on a nine year old. But it was true. I remember another moment where I was walking to school and this is in Jersey City, and I was passing what was called the Stegman Street Tavern. And the back door was open and it was a very sunny day, sunny morning. And. And as I was going by, I turned and looked and I saw my father sweeping up, I would imagine probably for drinks. And he stopped, realizing that someone was looking at him. And he looked up and he looked at me. And we just stood there and stared at one another. And there's, you know, he didn't. He didn't say hello, he didn't say a word. There was so much that might have been said, could have been said, should have been said. And then he just turned away and went back to sweeping. And I went on to school. You know, I wish I could go back and ask him some questions. He was a truck driver, like what? For many years. Well, I want to know what drove him to drink himself to death. I have two older brothers, Bob and Dan. And my brother Bob was probably was closer to him than myself and my oldest brother Dan. And eventually my mother moved away, she left him. And he stayed in this apartment we were in and. And, you know, got a couple of other drunks to move in with him to help pay the rent. And my brother went to see him and to try to help him and he said to my brother Bob, I'm no good to anybody. I'm just going to drank myself to death. And then he did.
- [15:47]
Sam Fragoso
You know, Nathan, when you're describing this man, this traveling truck driver, of course I think of Willy Loman. But I also think you as a kid growing up in Jersey City in this Irish Catholic family, the youngest of three, did you see the theater and performing as some off ramp to that, as some escape?
- [16:11]
Nathan Lane
My sense of humor was an escape. But yes, I mean, from a very early age I was a voracious reader, I think, because of my brother Dan. And also I had an uncle who gave me a lot of books. And then I joined what was called the Fireside Theater. It was a Play of the Month club.
- [16:31]
Sam Fragoso
And you were the kind of kid who was reading Death of a Salesman while other kids were watching Gilligan's Island?
- [16:37]
Nathan Lane
Yes, that is correct. And then eventually, you know, as I started reading plays and seeing plays, because my brother Dan, he obviously saw that in me and encouraged it and he took me to see plays. And then at one point when he was at college, they were putting on a play and they needed a child. So he suggested that, he said to his friends, my kid brother could do that. And so he got me into this play. So that was the first time I was ever on stage anyway. And then he took me to see theater in New York. And that was all very exciting. And when, you know, as I would sit there in a theater with him and, you know, the lights would go down and the curtain would go up and the whole thing, I just. You wanted. I wanted to be a part of it. I just thought, for some reason I thought, I think I could do that, or I certainly would like to try.
- [17:39]
Sam Fragoso
I want to know, and this may go back to your Catholic school days or your time at St. Peter's Prep, do you remember the first time you got a laugh on stage?
- [17:51]
Nathan Lane
Yes. I was in grammar school and we put on a production of around the world in 80 days. Very ambitious for grammar school. Who had no budget. And there was a scene where we were on a train and it was being attacked by Indians and people were running around and I was trying, I was a small round child and I was trying to hide and I had a little suitcase and the suitcase was sort of right in front of me. And so I crouched down behind the suitcase as if I might be hidden behind it, and I wasn't. And then the audience laughed and it was, that's the first laugh I ever got. It was like blood to a vampire. And I mean, I certainly had gotten laughs at home. I used to have a little it was like I would do a little club act, a lounge act for my family. I'd do bad impressions and entertain them.
- [18:52]
Sam Fragoso
You had a tight five.
- [18:53]
Nathan Lane
Yes, I definitely had a tight five.
- [18:57]
Sam Fragoso
That was back when you were Joe Lane, not Nathan Lane.
- [19:00]
Nathan Lane
That is correct, sir. You've done your research. I have.
- [19:05]
Sam Fragoso
Here's how one of your classmates describes you at St. Peter's Prep. Yes, Lane lacked height and possessed girth. His words, not mine. But there was nothing insecure about him. Every day he held court in the cafeteria surrounded by adoring fans. In the age of George Carlin, Jolie was the archetypical class clown. The entire faculty feared his might.
- [19:32]
Nathan Lane
Wow. Well, I guess that's one way of looking at it. Yeah. High school, well, that was, you know, like any kid, high school is difficult. And I'm sure being funny was my way in. You know, I was and certainly I would say by then I knew I was different than the other boys. And I was going to an all boys prep school. And so that was an interesting navigation, perhaps being attracted to other young men but not being able to show any of that. And that's. But I got involved. The social activity was being involved in the drama club and putting on plays.
- [20:30]
Terry Gross
We're listening to guest interviewer Sam Fragoso speaking with Nathan Lane. Lane was just nominated for a Tony for his starring role as Willy Loman in the new hit Broadway revival of Death of a Salesman. We'll hear more of the interview after a break. I'm Terry Gross and this is FRESH air.
- [20:49]
Pop Culture Happy Hour Announcer
From Spider man to a new Steven Spielberg movie, we know the TV and movies you'll want to watch this summer.
- [20:54]
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- [21:01]
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Check out the summer guide from Pop Culture Happy Hour. Listen on the NPR app or wherever you get podcasts. This message comes from Jerry. Many people are overpaying on car insurance. Why switching providers can be a pain. Jerry helps make the process painless. Jerry is the only app that compares rates from over 50 insurers in minutes and helps you switch fast with no spam calls or hidden fees. Drivers who save with Jerry could save over $1,300 a year. Before you renew your car insurance policy, download the Jeri app or head to Jerry AI npr.
- [21:40]
Sam Fragoso
When you told your mother you were going to New York to act, you were 21 years old.
- [21:45]
Nathan Lane
Yeah. Oh, God, I've told this story so much, and my poor mother, I feel guilty now, but it's become a famous story. Unfortunate.
- [21:56]
Sam Fragoso
This is Catholic guilt popping up here.
- [21:59]
Nathan Lane
Oh, totally. You know, you have to understand, this was not a sophisticated woman. She had her prejudices. God knows she made you.
- [22:08]
Sam Fragoso
That's got to count for something.
- [22:10]
Nathan Lane
Well, sure, you know, but I think that. I think. Look, I think what happened is they went to a wedding. My mother, of all the people in her family who are all drunks, she did not drink. But if she went out, she might. She would order one thing, a whiskey sour on the rocks, and she would sort of nurse it through an evening. But I think maybe this one night at the wedding, she had two and they had sex. And, you know, the future hope of Broadway was born. Anyway, so what was the question?
- [22:46]
Sam Fragoso
The question was, how did you tell your mother you were going to New York to act?
- [22:51]
Nathan Lane
Okay, so we had been living in Rutherford together in this tiny one bedroom apartment and. Or I slept on the most uncomfortable couch in history. And I had done a production of Guys and Dolls, a non equity production of Guys and Dolls, at a dinner theater in Meadowbrook, New Jersey, where I played Nathan Detroit. And I had a crush on the guy playing Benny, South Street. And we, you know, something had developed and he lived in New York, and so I was going to move to New York. And so I sat her down and because we had been through a lot together and I thought I had never lied to her. And I had been telling her I had been seeing a girl, but I was seeing. I said to her, I know you think I've been seeing a girl, but I've been seeing a guy. And, you know, she turned white and looked very shocked. And she said, you mean you're a homosexual? She said. And I said, yeah, I guess so. And she said, oh, Joseph, I would rather you were dead. And I said, I knew you'd understand. And once I got her head out of the oven, everything was fine. And I remember at one point
- [24:20]
Sam Fragoso
I
- [24:20]
Nathan Lane
was dating a Modern dancer. And he was very handsome. And we were at a gathering at Sardi's and he was. This dancer was there, and my mother was there, and I introduced them. And he went off to get drinks for her and myself. And she looked at me and went, he's very good,
- [24:47]
Sam Fragoso
Nathan. That's what we call progress.
- [24:49]
Nathan Lane
That's right.
- [24:50]
Sam Fragoso
You take the wins where you can find them. That's progress. That's her version of going to a pride parade, is what you just heard there.
- [24:59]
Nathan Lane
Exactly.
- [25:02]
Sam Fragoso
Did your mother enjoy seeing you perform?
- [25:07]
Nathan Lane
Oh, my God, yes. Yes, she was. You know, she lived to 84. She was at all those openings. And, you know, more than anything that I did, she loved when I was in a musical. You know, I'm sentimental about this. She always would say after every show. I'm not. She would say, I'm not saying this because I'm your mother. I'm saying it because it's true. You were the best one, So I'll always remember that.
- [25:45]
Sam Fragoso
Nathan, one of your biggest and most beloved performances is Max Bialystok, the corrupt producer in the Namesake, the Producers who's sent to jail for cooking the books while his business partner gets away with it. And I thought, why don't we listen to a little bit of the song? Betrayed.
- [26:06]
Nathan Lane
Just like Cain and Abel, you pulled a sneak attack I thought that we were brothers Then you stabbed me in the back. Betrayed. Oh, boy, I'm so betrayed. Like Samson and Delilah your love began to fade I'm crying in the host, you're in Rio. Betrayed. Let's face it, I'm betrayed Boy, have I been taken Oy, I'm so forsaken I should have seen what came to pass I should have known. Now watch my. I feel like Othello. Everything is lost. Leo is Iago. Max is double crossed. I'm so dismayed. Did I mention now I'm about to go to jail? There's no one who will pay my payment?
- [27:02]
Sam Fragoso
Nathan Lane, when you sing the word stabbed, how do you do that?
- [27:07]
Nathan Lane
I don't know. That's what came out of my mouth. That's what I felt. I'll give you a little story about that number. When we were discussing it and talking about it before we went into rehearsal, I said, you know, I. I said to Mel, I disappear in the second act. I said, I need an 11 o' clock number. And. And so. So he wrote a song called Farewell to Broadway, which was kind of a. You know, it was a sentiment. It was a sentimental song. And. And. And in the middle of it, there was a speech he had about how angry he was about being betrayed by Leo. And I said to him, the song isn't right, but the monologue you wrote in the middle of it is. It's got to be his version of Rose's turn. And he went off and wrote Betrayed. And he, you know, Mel, just knocked it out of the park.
- [28:20]
Sam Fragoso
If you're joining us, my guest is actor Nathan Lane. His latest turn is as Willy Loman in Death of a Salesman opposite Laurie Metcalf. The show was recently nominated for best revival of a play at the Tonys. More after a break. I'm San Fragoso. This is FRESH air.
- [28:35]
Pop Culture Happy Hour Announcer
From Spider man to a new Steven Spielberg movie, we know the TV and movies you'll want to watch this summer.
- [28:41]
NPR Sponsor Announcer
I'm excited about this film. I just know suspense, intrigue, aliens. And I'm like, all right, Spielberg, I'm in.
- [28:48]
Pop Culture Happy Hour Announcer
Check out the summer guide from Pop Culture Happy Hour. Listen on the NPR app or wherever you get podcasts. This message comes from Jerry. Many people are overpaying on car insurance. Why? Switching providers can be a pain. Jerry helps make the process painless. Jerry is the only app that compares rates from over 50 insurers in minutes and helps you switch fast with no spam calls or hidden fees. Drivers who save with Jerry could save over $1,300 a year. Before you renew your car insurance policy, download the Jerry app or head to Jerry AI npr.
- [29:27]
Sam Fragoso
When you're in the throes of starring in the Producers in the early 2000s, there was a producer who visited you backstage who told the Guardian, seeing him after a performance, it's like he's gone 10 rounds with Joe Louis.
- [29:43]
Nathan Lane
So this must have been an old producer if he said Joe Louis, look,
- [29:49]
Sam Fragoso
we don't want to age him here. But you know, if playing the corrupt, charismatic theater producer Max Bialystok took 10 rounds with Joe Louis out of you, what has Willy Loman done to you?
- [30:07]
Nathan Lane
Well, musicals are a young man's game. You musicals, it's like your quarterback for the New York Giants. It's an athletic event. And, you know, I'll tell you what happened with the Producers is I was so, you know, it was became such a phenomenon and I felt the pressure of now that, you know, of living up to the hype. And I didn't protect myself vocally. I just, I was out there doing it, you know, my homage to zero and yelling and screaming and carrying on and then having seen singing song after song and you and after six Seven months I had hurt myself. And what I find is. And Salesman is difficult because of where you have to go. It's a play that tests you and it costs you because you have to go there night after night after night like Iceman Cometh. But there's something about this play that it's taken me a long time. And I'm proud of the work that I'm doing. And I attribute a lot of it to the genius of Joe Mantello, who guided me in this role. And it's been the most rewarding thing I've done.
- [31:35]
Sam Fragoso
Toward the middle of Death of a Salesman, I thought maybe we could play a little bit from it where Biff Hap greet their father at a restaurant. Both of them, both Biff and Willie have had big days in very different ways. So here's how that conversation sounds.
- [31:53]
NPR Sponsor Announcer
Facts, Pop. Facts about my life came back to me.
- [31:59]
Nathan Lane
Who was it, Pop? Whoever said that I was a salesman with Oliver? Well, you were. No, Dad, I was a shipping clerk. But you were bragging. All right, Dad. I don't know who said it first, but I was never a salesman with Bill Oliver. What are you talking about? Now, let's hold on to the facts tonight, Pop, because we're not gonna get anywhere bulling around. I was a shipping clerk. All right, now listen to me. Why don't you let me finish? I'm not interested in stories about the past or any crap of that kind. Because the woods are burning, boys. You understand? There's a big blaze going on all around. I was fired today. How could you be? I was fired. And I'm looking for a little good news to tell your mother because the woman has waited and the woman has suffered. The gist of it is that I haven't got a story left in my head. So don't give me a lecture about facts and aspects. I am not interested. Now, what have you got to say to me?
- [33:00]
Sam Fragoso
I just want to repeat that line. The gist of it is, I haven't got a story left in my head.
- [33:06]
Nathan Lane
Oh, I know. I know. I love that line.
- [33:10]
Sam Fragoso
I can't hear that line and not think of the dynamic between you and your father. I can't hear it and think, oh, like for you to do that line night after night because he passed away when you were so young. And now for you, at the highest possible stage to do what you have done, to be awarded, sort of ironically, for a story about someone whose career didn't work out. I don't know. Like, I hear that line, and it's just I wondered where it lands with you today and night to night.
- [33:48]
Nathan Lane
You know, it's funny you bring that line up, because I find it such an important line. He's a salesman. And so when he says, I don't have a story left in my head, Biff, so don't give me a lecture about facts and aspects, I am not interested. That's what he's been doing. I mean, you know, it's never mentioned what he sells. And when they asked Miller about that, he says, well, he's selling himself. And he's sadly reached the point where they're not buying anymore, and it's killing him. You know, he used to sell his sons, too. He sold them on this, his version of the American dream and the idea of success. But as Biff says, it's wrong. It's all wrong. He didn't know who he was, and he was probably never as successful as he imagined. You know, he was probably some guy in a hotel lobby talking to someone a little too loudly. And you thought, oh, God, you know, it's. It's such a tragedy. You know, as Miller wrote the Tragedy of the Common Man, I saw the
- [35:15]
Sam Fragoso
play this past week, and, you know, like a traditional curtain call, everyone comes out. You're the last one that comes out. And I was standing there. We were all applauding. Many of the people next to me were weeping. And I saw you walk out on stage, and you took a bow, and there was some look in your face that I had not seen in the play but saw very clearly in that moment. It was almost as if there was like an exhale. There was so much emotion in that. And I could not help but think, oh, that's the kid who performed in the cafeteria at St. Peter's that's. That's everything there. And I wonder every night, and this was just this week, but when you walk out there, what is that moment to you?
- [36:21]
Nathan Lane
It's, you know, very, very powerful. There's the undeniable power of the play and where it takes you. You know, Arthur Miller really tapped into something in this play, and it's the last bastion of community. It's people gathering around the campfire. It's the human connection. They're not on their phones until the curtain call, and then they hold them up. Instead of looking at you, they're filming you. Nevertheless, it's. You know, we all. We have all come together to tell a story and to hear a story and hopefully to feel something, whether it's to laugh or to cry or to think. And this play gives you all of that and more. And it's just it is that dream that I had as a kid. And you know, my friend Sami Wasson, a wonderful film historian and writer, he always said to me, you can never forget that when you walk out there up in way up in the balcony, there's some kid who's just like you and seeing you and thinking, gee, I'd like to do that someday. And that's who you're doing it for. All right. You're gonna make me cry. At this age, I'm a very easy cry, as Terence McNally used to say. Oh, at this age, I cry at food displays. Anyway, it's that it's that thing that only happens in the theater, you know, and it's why it feels like home and why it's still so special.
- [38:12]
Sam Fragoso
Well, if the theater is your home, I want to say that I think we have all benefited from and very much enjoyed being your guest. So thank you for that and appreciate the time.
- [38:26]
Nathan Lane
Well put, sir. Thank you so much.
- [38:29]
Terry Gross
Nathan Lane spoke with guest interviewer Sam Fragoso, host of the interview podcast Talk Easy. Lane was just nominated for a Tony for his starring role as Willie Loman in the new Broadway revival of Arthur Miller's Death of a Salesman. Sam Fragoso is the host of the interview podcast Talk Easy. After we take a short break, Ken Tucker will review new songs by Ella Langley, Robin and Allison Russell. This is FRESH air.
- [38:56]
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- [39:16]
Terry Gross
Our rock critic Ken Tucker has been listening to some recently released music and has come up with three new songs that approach unhappiness and heartache in distinctive ways. Country singer Ella Langley, the Swedish dance music star Robyn, and the singer songwriter Alison Russell each have a take on sorrow and discontent that offer vivid, even inspiring music.
- [39:57]
Music Reviewer
Just when I thought I got him to fall in love, in love with Tennessee I should have known better than to take him back to Abilene. I put him right back into her arms. I wasn't a match for that kind of spark. She's from Texas. I can tell by the way he's too stepping around the room and judging by the smile that's written on his face, there's nothing I can do it doesn't take a crystal ball to see a cowboy Always finds a way to leave Drinking jack all by myself he's choosing in Texas, I can tell
- [40:56]
Nathan Lane
A
- [40:56]
Ken Tucker
few weeks ago I reviewed the new Megan Maroney country album and mentioned that also surging in popularity is her colleague Ella Langley. Well, now Langley's album called Dandelion is out and it's more varied and ambitious than I'd anticipated. It's common for someone early in her career to work variations on the songs that have made her successful. And Choosin Texas, the song that began this review, is more than successful. It is in fact the longest running number one ever by a woman country artist on Billboard's Hot 100. But Dandelion demonstrates Langley's range in making pop ballads, bluegrass rave ups and more. My favorite song on the album may be Last Call For Us, a honky tonk song that uses closing time at the honky tonk as a metaphor for a romance that's about to end.
- [41:50]
Music Reviewer
It's last call for us the lights are coming on I don't wanna leave but it's almost three and I think we both know that it's last call for us It's a sad, sad time that after these drinks you'll let go of me and I'll let go of you we ain't ever gonna make this work let's closing out and go our separate ways soon as we go walking out that door we ain't ever gon Ain't ever gonna be the same It's
- [42:51]
Ken Tucker
Last Call Ella Langley is at the start of her career. The singer Robyn is in the middle of hers and she's chosen to build an album around that idea. She calls the collection sexistential and its songs are about hard won middle age, wisdom and a weary impatience with partners less engaged or sincere than she. Performers ranging from Taylor Swift to Charlie XCX have expressed their admiration for Robin's way with vocals that twist around a pulsing rhythm and songwriting that injects emotional complexity into disco repetition. A prime example of this is it don't mean a Thing. Robin's jagged, distorted vocal helps convey the lyrics disappointment in a love gone bad. Her bitterness bleeds into the beat.
- [43:40]
Music Reviewer
It don't mean a thing it don't matter at all Alexa, can I just say something?
- [43:53]
Nathan Lane
I don't really go anymore but sometimes I think about how you used to make me crack up so hard I didn't keep it together you and my
- [44:01]
Music Reviewer
baby we went through every single position and we talked about nothing and what really mattered I took care of you when you desired your bed All I ever wanted was for you to get silly with me Baby you come on flies I loved you I sent you love forever stupid forever. You wanna keep it civilized I'm not that it don't matter it don't mean anything it don't matter at all
- [44:41]
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- [44:41]
Ken Tucker
reviewed both of Alison Russell's albums, the Returner and Outside Child, and it seems as though every time I hear something new by her, I want to immediately play it for everyone I know. That's certainly the case with her new single called no Springtime. Russell sings this ballad with minimal instrumental accompaniment. The song builds on harmonies provided by fellow singer songwriters Joy Alata Kun and Julie Williams.
- [45:09]
Music Reviewer
Three in the middle and two by the lake how many songbirds will it take to tell me so I still don't get it wrong what's gone is gone is gone is gone fast silhouettes on the telephone pole One outside your bedroom window you don't know what you thought you knew there's no Springtime in the Blues.
- [45:46]
Ken Tucker
This near acapella performance of no Springtime gets its power from the completion of the title phrase, there's no springtime in the blues, they sing. And it is indeed Russell's deep connection to the blues that takes its sadness to another level. Russell knows as well as Ella Langley and Robin, that sometimes fully felt unhappiness, free of self pity or melodramatic exaggeration, can be as thrilling and uplifting as
- [46:14]
Terry Gross
Joy Kentucker reviewed new music by Ella Langley, Robin and Alison Russell. Fresh Air's executive producer is Sam Brigger. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Roberta Shorrock and Rebo Donato. Lauren Krenzel, Teresa Madden, Monique Nazareth, Susan Yakundi, Anna Bauman and Nico Gonzalez Whistler. Our digital media producer is Molly Sivi Nesper. Thea Challoner directed today's show. Our co host is Tanya Mosley. I'm Terry Gross.
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