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- [00:00]
Ann Marie Baldonado
This message comes from Capella University. That spark you feel, that's your drive. For more Capella University's Flexpath learning format lets you earn your degree at your pace without putting life on pause. Learn more at capella. Edu.
- [00:15]
Terry Gross
This is FRESH air. I'm Terry Gross. Our guest is actor, writer and woodworker Nick Offerman. He's best known for his role in Parks and Recreation and for his Emmy Award winning role in the show the Last of Us. His new series, Margo's Got Money Troubles, is based on the book of the same name. He spoke with FRESH air's Anne Marie Baldonado.
- [00:37]
Ann Marie Baldonado
The new Apple TV series Margot's Got Money Troubles is about Margot, a bright college freshman who ill advisedly has an affair with her English professor. She ends up getting pregnant and decides to have and keep the baby. Margo herself was raised by a single mom. Her dad, Jinx, played by Nick Offerman, was a popular professional wrestler when she was born and has been pretty absent from her life. Now his career is in the past and his injuries have caused him chronic pain. He turns to painkillers, then heroin and then rehab. He's there when he hears about Margot and decides to come back into her life after years of being away. In this scene, he comes to Margo's door and meets the baby for the first time. Margot is played by Elle Fanning.
- [01:29]
Terry Gross
You're a grandpa.
- [01:33]
Nick Offerman
Everyone says he's beautiful, so I'm going with that. He's the most beautiful. Oh, I I brought you a check. Sold an old bike. It's not much, but I'm sorry to but wasn't able to call you back. Where are you staying? Well, for tonight I gotta figure and then starting tomorrow. Guess I gotta figure that, too. Can I hold him? He's a little fussy.
- [02:20]
Terry Gross
Hey.
- [02:22]
Nick Offerman
Hey, little man. Wow. He likes you. Wow.
- [02:37]
Ann Marie Baldonado
Jinx moves in with Margot, the baby and Margot's roommate, creating an unconventional family unit. Jinx is there for Margot in a way he wasn't in the past, but the pain and struggle of addiction persist. Nick Offerman played the beloved character Ron Swanson in the comedy series Parks and Recreation. He won an Emmy Award for Outstanding Guest Actor in a Drama Series for his role in a heartbreaking episode of the series the Last of Us. In addition to Margot's Got Money Troubles, he stars in the Netflix show Death by Lightning. Nick Offerman, welcome back to FRESH air.
- [03:17]
Nick Offerman
Thank you so much for having me.
- [03:19]
Ann Marie Baldonado
The series is great and you're so good in it. You've said that playing this Role really scared you? What was so scary about it?
- [03:27]
Nick Offerman
Well, I suppose, you know, I've had a really lucky career. I've gotten to work a lot, which for an actor, just getting jobs is wild. The numbers are so stacked against you. And, you know, with the good fortune of getting to work consistently, I also, you know, fell into a certain category of, like, dependable supporting actor, you know, journeyman bus driver slash plumber, you know, slash guy manning the grill. And so one thing I haven't been called on to do a lot of is have, like, a complicated emotional relationship or, or have an inner emotional arc that we want the audience to care about. And so that part of the show, not only having two of those relationships with Elle Fanning and with Michelle Pfeiffer, not only having that for the first time, kind of, but to have him with these, like, world class Mount Rushmore, like a list actresses, you know, was like, well, I wanted a challenge. Here you go, buddy.
- [04:45]
Ann Marie Baldonado
Well, I've read when you're preparing for a role, you think a lot about facial hair. Maybe all of your hair, but facial hair in particular. And I imagine too, you think a lot about physicality. Like, how would this character carry himself? What does he look like physically? Can you talk about what you thought about in terms of your look when you were playing Jinx, who was, you know, had been a wrestler a little past his prime?
- [05:11]
Nick Offerman
I love transforming. One thing I love about Job is sinking into the material deeply enough that sometimes the audience will say, oh, I didn't realize that's the guy from the other thing. And that's sort of my favorite compliment to get if I get one. And so, because I'm blessed with a healthy crop of facial hair and hair on my head, that's kind of just my jumping off point. Like, okay, which version of Lon Chaney will I bring to bat in this game? And then also I worked with a great trainer named Grant Roberts to make my body look more like a former pro wrestler, and then had the incredible opportunity to train with Chavo Guerrero, who's a real pro wrestler from the Guerrero family.
- [06:04]
Ann Marie Baldonado
And.
- [06:04]
Nick Offerman
And he's just this incredible teacher. He did the show glow, he did the Iron Claw, and so he's become kind of the Hollywood go to guy. And he was just a wonderful teacher. I mean, the fact that I was able to do all my own wrestling in the show and never once go to the hospital is a great credit to him. And our stunt coordinator, John Epstein.
- [06:26]
Ann Marie Baldonado
Yeah, you're shown wrestling in flashbacks. You're sort of on videotapes. And then you wrestle at an expo for wrestlers, and you even wrestle Nicole Kidman's character.
- [06:40]
Nick Offerman
Yeah, that was, in the modern parlance of not on my bingo card wrestling Nicole Kidman was definitely not on there.
- [06:50]
Ann Marie Baldonado
Now, you do a lot of acting with a baby in this show. Holding a baby, actually comforting a baby, because your character Jinx is surprisingly tender and really great with the baby and able to calm the baby down. I was thinking, wow, Nick Offerman is really acting with this baby a lot. And that seemed like a very good little actor. Can you talk about acting with the baby?
- [07:15]
Nick Offerman
I love babies and animals, and I don't know, I'm lucky that I have an affinity with creatures. So I loved that that was sort of part of the character. As you can imagine, when you work with babies, television and film, you have to have at least a couple babies so that you can switch them out. They can't work that long in general. But also, if one of them is having a bad day or some gas, you can swap in a happier baby or not. And so we had these two really heroic babies named river and Graham. And they were incredible. I mean, these two kids who started working with us at six months of age. I mean, they were just astonishing. We would finish these dramatic scenes with Elle and Michelle, and everyone would say, good Lord, did you see what that baby did? They really were scene stealers. And so I just loved working with them.
- [08:14]
Ann Marie Baldonado
I want to play another scene from this series here. Jinx is at Margot's apartment with the baby. He's cleaned the place. He's trying to help out, and he decides to ask Margot if he can move in again. Margot is played by Elle Fanning.
- [08:31]
Nick Offerman
Susie mentioned that you might be looking for a roommate, and I need a place to live. Oh, well, I mean, look, I can't contribute a ton for rent. The divorce wiped me out. But I can cook and I can clean, and the idea of getting to spend time with you lost time. Okay, I think I got my answer.
- [09:00]
Terry Gross
It's not
- [09:03]
Nick Offerman
no. We do need a roommate. And it would be nice to spend time with you, but I know the statistics on drug addicts, and if you were gonna stay here, you would have to be clean. If you were gonna be around Bodie. Margo, I am clean. I am the one who checked myself into rehab. Why me?
- [09:37]
Terry Gross
Why don't you ask Andrea or one of the boys?
- [09:40]
Nick Offerman
I mean, I checked their Instagrams. I know they're financially stable. My therapist thinks that the stress of those relationships might cause me to Relapse and the idea of getting your own place, that would definitely relapse. I mean, there would be no one to perform sanity for.
- [09:57]
Ann Marie Baldonado
That's a scene from Margot's Got Money Troubles. Your character, Jinx is a hulking guy used to being physical, but it's his wrestling that has brought him pain. And in response to that, chronic pain, he starts using painkillers, and his addiction goes on from there. How did you tackle that part of the role? Did you talk with wrestlers or people who've dealt with chronic pain or those dealing with drug addiction?
- [10:25]
Nick Offerman
I did. I mean, sadly, in my business, as well as wrestling and pro sports, I have. I sadly have a couple friends who went through the exact same trajectory of inadvertently getting hooked on opioids and then having that uncovered a tendency for addiction that led to heroin use. And so I have dealt with that and have some knowledge of it from being adjacent to it. And a lot of wrestlers and former wrestlers live in Los Angeles or Las Vegas. So it was easy to get a lot of sort of research and talk to these people about their interior lives. And I can. I mean, I thankfully have not had such addiction problems in my life, but I've certainly dabbled in indulgence in ways that, like, I've learned lessons over the years of. Of, like, well, this is fun. Let me try partying this way for a week. And then learning. Okay, I see how if I don't stop, that this I will ruin a lot of my life.
- [11:43]
Ann Marie Baldonado
The thing that's so heartbreaking about Jinx is that he's trying so hard, but the audience can tell that he's struggling. He's trying to make up for the past, but he's not sure if he can do it. Can you talk about trying to play that part of Jinx, the struggle?
- [11:58]
Nick Offerman
Yeah, I mean, it's tied to your last question. I'm a human. I'm a human male. And so that, if you're honest with yourself, that, you know, brings a certain lesser batting average than perhaps we'd like to believe. I have incredible parents. My mom and dad are really great citizens, and I have three great siblings. And we all, you know, we're all doing our best. We've got school teachers and librarians and nurses and an actor. But we all each, in our own way, we emulate our mom and dad. And I'm living this crazy life, traveling the world and singing and dancing for people, but still trying to participate in the conversation of values that my mom and dad sort of imparted in us. And I have a very successful marriage. I've been with my wife, Megan Mulally for 26 years. I think we've been married 23. And, you know, being with somebody for 26 years is definitely going to include some. Some stumbles and some pitfalls. And sometimes when I've had to say, wow, I handled that horribly, please forgive me. So I'm a person who's honest with himself, so I have a wealth of opportunities to draw upon for Jinx to find his feelings in.
- [13:48]
Ann Marie Baldonado
I want to ask about the show the Last of Us. It's a post apocalyptic drama about people who've survived a global pandemic that his wife out most of the population. A lot of other stuff happens after that. You won an Emmy for Outstanding Guest Actor in a Drama Series for your role as Bill. Can you describe your character, Bill?
- [14:13]
Nick Offerman
Sure. I mean, Bill was, you know, a survivalist, also known as a prepper. He was a brilliant engineer. And so when this sort of viral pandemic wiped out so much of the population, Bill was among the few people who was very happy. Like, he. He doesn't want to see other people, I think, because then he. Then he has to face himself. And so he's. He's created this wonderful fortress of a world where he can live sustainably. And so Bill is this guy who inadvertently happens upon some love in his life, and I think he's taken by surprise just as much as the audience is, and it allows him to blossom into having a relationship that's really beautifully wrought. It's got some wonderful moments of highs and lows and love and screaming fights.
- [15:16]
Ann Marie Baldonado
I want to play a quick scene from the Last of Us. It's near the beginning of the episode. It's kind of the meet cute. As you were saying, your character Bill was a survivalist before the pandemic and the aftermath. So he's actually done quite well for himself. And one day, another survivor wanders onto your land, into one of your traps. And of course you're skeptical. The other character, Frank, is played by Murray Bartlett.
- [15:45]
Nick Offerman
Boston is that way you can make it by nightfall. I'm really hungry. Haven't eaten in two days. Doesn't sound very long out loud, does it? Feels long. I'm letting you go. So go. All right, look, first, my name's Frank. Oh, yeah. Here's the thing, Frank. If I feed you, then every bum you talk to about it is gonna show up here looking for a free lunch. And this is not an Arby's. Arby's didn't have Free lunch. It was a restaurant. I won't talk about it to any bums or hobos or vagabonds, I promise.
- [16:28]
Ann Marie Baldonado
That's a short scene from the Last of Us. What was it like filming this episode, which was really like a film, you know, it traces a whole love story with your character Bill and Frank, who finds you by chance and, you know, you fall in love and have this life together, the two of you, essentially. I was wondering what it was like filming this whole arc of a story.
- [16:51]
Nick Offerman
It was incredible. I mean, it really did feel like a beautiful Sundance movie. And from. From the moment I got the script and had Megan read it and. And to confirm, she said, yeah, you're going to Calgary, buddy. Because when I first got asked to do it, I didn't. I was completely unavailable when they wanted me. But as soon as we read it, Megan said, yeah, you make yourself available. Also, it came with. They said, you know, and Frank is gonna be Murray Bartlett. And we had. The timing was such that we had just finished watching the first season of White Lotus had just finished airing, on which Murray was just so electrically fantastic. It was. I like to say that it was like watching the Raiders of the Lost Ark and then. And then getting an offer and they say, you're. You're gonna have to fall in love with the guy with the hat and the whip. And I just was like, holy cow. And so from the moment I got there, the entire production, hbo, knew what they had going on. It was. Everyone was treating the script with all the due reverence. We. Everyone understood that if we didn't screw it up, we had something very special on our hands.
- [18:11]
Ann Marie Baldonado
Well, it's this wonderful story, you know, it's this post apocalyptic landscape, and there are these two people who find connection, purpose, meaning, and then, you know, loss too. And your character, Bill, starts as someone completely closed off from others and from himself, and he opens up. And I wonder what you drew on to play Bill, someone who is so alone but is finally seen by someone else.
- [18:39]
Nick Offerman
It seems clear that some of the foundational qualities in Bill also describe Ron Swanson from Parks and Rec. Like a taciturn, sort of solitary individual who puts a lot of effort into what he thinks is living right. He has a strong set of values and sort of personal credo.
- [19:05]
Ann Marie Baldonado
There's something too, about these characters like Bill and Ron, that they're so capable and we're drawn to kind of the crack in it sometimes, like the crack in being so capable.
- [19:19]
Nick Offerman
I mean, now you've made me think of, as I'M watching Jinx unfold in my new show. It's funny when I watch things, like, I can never enjoy them. I'm always watching like I'm watching game tape of a sport, checking out my swing or whatever. And with Jinx, I keep thinking it's interesting that I'm not more showy. That's what's occurring to me is like, even when I'm wrestling or like ripping off my shirt or, or whatever, I, I think, I feel, I feel like other actors would have put on more of a show and been more overtly kind of peacocking. And I think it's all connected to, I don't know, just my nature. When I, when I watch Ron Swanson or even Bill, there are often moments where I think I'm glad that this is working. I'm glad, like, an audience is buying this. But, man, why are you talking so slow? Why, like, give us, come on, turn it, turn it up all the way from 1 to 2, for crying out loud.
- [20:29]
Ann Marie Baldonado
My guest is Nick Offerman. His new TV show is called Margo's Got Money Troubles. We'll be back after a short break. I'm Ann Marie Baldonado, and this is FRESH air. This message comes from Warby Parker. Prescription eyewear that's expertly crafted and unexpectedly affordable. Glasses designed in house from premium material starting at just $95, including prescription lenses. Stop by a Warby Parker store near you.
- [20:56]
Announcer
This message comes from Angie. Tackling a home project. Angie can connect you with pros who do such a good job, you might ask them to be your kid's godfather. Don't do that. Just trust them to get the job done. Find a pro for your projects@angie.com that's a n g I.com support for NPR. And the following message come from Edward Jones. What does it mean to live a rich life? It means brave first leaps, tearful goodbyes and everything in between. With over a hundred years of experience navigating the ups and downs of the market and of life, your Edward Jones financial advisor will be there to help you move ahead with confidence. Because with all you've done to find your rich, they'll do all they can to help you keep enjoying it. Edward Jones, Member, SIPC hi, this is
- [21:48]
Ann Marie Baldonado
Molly C.V. nesper, digital producer at Fresh Air.
- [21:51]
Terry Gross
And this is Terry Gross, host of the show.
- [21:53]
Ann Marie Baldonado
One of the things I do is
- [21:54]
Terry Gross
write the weekly newsletter, and I'm a newsletter fan. I read it every Saturday after breakfast. The newsletter includes all the week shows, staff recommendations and Molly picks. Timely highlights from the archives. It's a fun read.
- [22:07]
Ann Marie Baldonado
It's also the only place where we tell you what's coming up next week. An exclusive.
- [22:11]
Terry Gross
So subscribe@whyy.org fresh air and look for an email from Molly every Saturday morning.
- [22:19]
Ann Marie Baldonado
Now, many listeners will know you from your role as Ron Swanson in the show Parks and Recreation. I want to play a quick scene from the show, one that shows Ron being Ron. Here's Ron turning a wall sconce into wedding rings for the characters Leslie and Ben.
- [22:36]
Nick Offerman
It's not rocket science. I removed the sconce, fired up my grandfather's torch, heated up the pieces in a cast iron bucket, liquefied the metal, poured into a mold. Obviously, keep it over a low flame to achieve a nice temper, cooled it in antifreeze, and just forged and shaped the rings. Any moron with a crucible and acetylene torch and a cast iron waffle maker could have done the same. Whole thing only took me about 20 minutes. People who buy things are suckers.
- [23:08]
Ann Marie Baldonado
That's a scene from Parks and Recreation. It's a beloved show. You play a beloved character. Can you tell the story of how you got the part of Ron?
- [23:18]
Nick Offerman
I was getting pretty bummed. I was in my late 30s and I had had a few instances where writers took a shine to me, TV writers, and they would write me a part in their pilot, and it never worked out. And then finally we were watching Rainn Wilson on the Office, who's a dear old friend, and I, I said, you know, if I'm ever gonna get a shot, I think it's gonna be something like Dwight on the Office. And sure enough, Dwight's cousin Mose Schrute, played by Mike Schur, who created Parks and Rec with Greg Daniels of the Office. They had me in. They looked at me for another role. That role never happened, but they took a shine to me, thankfully, and wanted to put me in as Amy's boss, this guy Ron Swanson, who, thank goodness, they really wanted a slow talker. And still NBC, of course, in their corporate wisdom, said, I don't think so. Like, he's weird. We've never been able to wrap our heads around Nick Offerman. Let's keep looking. So for five months since they first read me as Ron, they read every guy under the moon. I mean, everybody I met was like, oh, my God. I went in for the greatest part. It's Amy's boss on our new show.
- [24:43]
Ann Marie Baldonado
It must have been heartbreaking.
- [24:44]
Nick Offerman
I would sob inwardly like, oh, cool. Sounds good, man. See you later. So finally it came down to where there were just a couple of us. Amy came to town. They were getting ready to start shooting. She moved here from New York to la, and they brought me and another guy in to improvise with Amy as the final audition. And they taped them and then turned them into NBC. And, you know, I did my best. And Ron and Leslie were really born in that room that day because that I. I never worked with Amy before. I'd known her for a long time and. And was crazy about her, but, like, she was like a comedy butterfly hopped up on. On uppers, like, just comedy dynamo ing around the room. And I. I had no choice, like, but to sit there and withstand her and then say, like, one pithy thing at the end and as though I had a choice. As though that was my comedic brilliance instead of just the only physical possibility. And they said, amazing. What collaboration. So that went great. And then Mike called me the next day to say that I got the job and that they had only turned in my tape. They didn't even turn in the other guy's tape. And so it was. I mean, good lord. I mean, it changed my life so profoundly. And I'm so grateful to Mike and Greg for sticking with me. I mean, I'll be forever in their debt.
- [26:29]
Ann Marie Baldonado
I want to play a scene from this series finale, perhaps one of the best series finales of all time. Your character, Ron, has told Leslie, played by Amy Poehler, that he wants to find a new job. He wants new purpose, and Leslie is one of the people that knows him well enough to help him figure it out. Here's Ron meeting Leslie at a national park that Leslie established.
- [26:55]
Nick Offerman
I gotta tell you, Leslie, establishing this national park right next to Pawnee is quite an accomplishment. This is a fine piece of land you saved. Thank you, Ron. You want to run it? The superintendent of Bryce Canyon retired, and I convinced the superintendent of this park to transfer. Shuffled a few things around. Point is, someone needs to take care of this place now. Thought it should be you. I. Well, first of all, I would be working for the federal government. Your job would be to walk around the land alone. You'd live in the same town you've always lived in. You'd work outside, you'd talk to bears. Next argument. Well, there must be dozens of people gunning for this job. I wouldn't want you to ruffle any feathers. Am I even qualified? Well, a few people might be annoyed, but they'll get over it. And as far as your qualifications, you're Ron Swanson. Stop being a dummy and accept. When do I start? Oh, today. I already accepted for you. I still remember how to forge your signature. Let's go meet your staff. Pawnee National National Park Rangers, this is Ron Swanson, your new superintendent and boss. Rangers, my name is Ronald Ulysses Swanson. Your job and mine is to walk this land and make sure no one harms it. If you show up on time, speak honestly and treat everyone with fairness, we will get along just fine, though hopefully not too fine, as I'm not looking for any new friends. End of speech.
- [28:29]
Terry Gross
Well said.
- [28:31]
Nick Offerman
Thank you, Leslie. You're welcome, Ron.
- [28:37]
Ann Marie Baldonado
That's a scene from the series finale of Parks and Recreation. Of course, we had to cut it off before Ron goes out in the canoe, which always gets me a little bit teary. Fans of this show love this show and they want they want you all to still be in touch with each other. Are you still all in touch with each other?
- [28:57]
Nick Offerman
Well, Megan and I never watch anything a second time, so I hadn't heard that, you know, since it aired 10 years ago. So I hope you're happy with the the warm tears that are rolling down my my cheeks here in my guest room. And the the cast does have a text thread that has never stopped. It's, you know, as you can imagine, it's mostly congratulations and and happy birthdays and so forth with, you know, a lot of sincerity and affection and also a good amount of smartassery and insulting. The actor Jim o', Hare, who played
- [29:41]
Ann Marie Baldonado
Jerry Garry and whose character. Yeah. Who always the running joke was that everybody made fun of.
- [29:50]
Nick Offerman
Yeah. He's the Eeyore. And he couldn't be a sweeter, you know, more more wonderful guy. And it's just it's a joke. We'll never we'll never drop like it was. It was a cast full of wonderful, talented actors. And also Jim o' Hare is the running bit.
- [30:07]
Ann Marie Baldonado
If you're just joining us, my guest is Nick Offerman. His TV shows include Parks and Recreation, Making it the Last of Us, Death by Lightning and his latest, Margo's Got Money Troubles. We'll talk more after a break. This is FRESH air. This message comes from Warby Parker. Prescription eyewear that's expertly crafted and unexpectedly affordable. Glasses designed in house from premium materials starting at just $95, including prescription lenses. Stop by a Warby Parker store near you.
- [30:39]
Announcer
This message comes from Angie. Tackling a home project. Angie can connect you with pros who do such a good job, you might ask them to be your kid's godfather. Don't do that. Just trust them to get the job done. Find a pro for your projects@angie.com that's a n g I.com every story from
- [30:59]
Ann Marie Baldonado
shortwave NPR science podcast starts with a question like, why do we have nightmares? How does AI affect my energy? Bill at npr, we are here for your right to be curious about the world around you. Follow short Wave wherever you get your podcasts because the more you ask, the more interesting the world gets. Well, you grew up in Illinois, outside of Chicago. Can you describe where you grew up?
- [31:28]
Nick Offerman
Yeah, a really nice, just humble little farm town, couple thousand people, and it's now it's exploded. I. I can never keep the numbers straight, but it was like a few thousand growing up and now it's pushing maybe 20,000. Like, it's really gotten big. I come from a wonderful farming family. My dad's dad was the mayor for a while back in the 80s. My mom's family are still farming. And so I grew up getting to work on their farms and like, just really great, hard working, salt of the earth people, you know, working hard and then trying to play baseball and have a good time when they hang up the tractor keys.
- [32:16]
Ann Marie Baldonado
Well, what made you want to be an actor? Did the idea of that feel foreign to the people around you and to you?
- [32:24]
Nick Offerman
It did. I had an ember through my childhood that when you could start doing plays in high school, I did. So I had something inexplicable that I just wanted to entertain people. And eventually when I found out you could go to theater school and that you could get paid to be in plays in Chicago, that just was. I said, that's obviously what I have to do. And I did. It's everybody in my town, including the guidance counselor, they all said, no. I said, I want to be an actor. And they said, I don't believe that's one of your options. I don't think you can get there from here. And I said, well, I'm gonna try.
- [33:08]
Ann Marie Baldonado
While you were classically trained as an actor, what kind of parts did you want? Like, what were young Nick Offerman's dream roles?
- [33:18]
Nick Offerman
In my classical training, I was terrible. I hadn't figured out acting yet, so I couldn't get cast. In college, I had a really hard time, which is why I became really good at building scenery and stage combat and things like that, because I really wanted to be part of making theater. But apparently performing dialogue on stage was not my avenue at least yet. And so my dream was to just get in the shows. I loved Shakespeare. I loved the Chekhov pieces. They were doing the comedies of Joe Orton, the plays of Sam Shepard. I still to this day like aspire to just do any piece of great writing.
- [34:02]
Ann Marie Baldonado
Was carpentry then your day job for most of those early years in acting? And what kinds of things were you doing? Were you building sets but also making furniture or were you building anyone's kitchen? Like what kind of stuff did you do?
- [34:17]
Nick Offerman
I had already worked as a carpenter framing houses as a teenager. And so here I was, you know, a clumsy, not, not good at acting. Acting student. And this great guy named Ken Egan was running the scene shop. And it was my first beautiful big carpentry shop. And it was just like a wonderland where I. Something sparked in me and I guess it was, it was in the class, you know, all the, all the acting students had to take a class. And I, you know, we all had to like hammer a nail or you know, sort of begin showing what we could do with tools. And it was rudimentary enough that I could do it, you know, with a flourish. I then moved to LA. I started getting acting jobs like in my mid-20s. I started to figure it out. I got some nice parts and plays. I got cast in a couple movies. And I was surprised to learn that it was not as good of a theater town, not nearly as Chicago. And it didn't have the same scenery set up. In Chicago, everything was connected, whereas in LA everything was much more mercenary and union. And I was told, like, you have to build scenery or be a stuntman or be an actor. You can't wear all these hats like you did in Chicago. And so I still needed to make a living with my tools. And so I switched to building like decks and cabins and people's yards. And there's such a strong Craftsman and mission influence in Southern California. So the things I was building would often be kind of timber frame and post and beam. And that is how I accidentally backed into fine furniture joinery, was by doing post and beam structures.
- [36:18]
Ann Marie Baldonado
You've written a lot of best selling books and your latest is called Little Woodchucks. And it's a how to guide for woodworking projects that are safe for the whole family to do. Do you remember some of the early projects that you did either alone or with others, you know, your earliest memories of woodworking?
- [36:38]
Nick Offerman
I do. I mean, they were projects with my dad mainly. My mom and dad were really Little House on the Prairie. We all worked in the garden. We all helped cook and clean and repair our clothes and you know, maintain our vehicles, like at the Time it was just normal domestic living in our little town, you know. And so my book, Little Woodchucks is to try and encourage as many families as possible and secretly it's for the little woodchuck in all of us. It's not just grown ups and kids because most of the grownups I know also don't know how to use tools. And it's to try and give people permission to break out of the consumerist safety and sense of luxury where everything is done for us by corporations. All of your life can be curated by app or by pressing a button on your technology. And when we do that, we give away our agency to these corporations and in our lifetimes that has allowed them to make them all of less quality by design so that they can sell more of them to us. It's true of our food. Nobody knows who their farmers are anymore and nobody knows if their food is any good. If we don't maintain any sort of oversight, then companies are never going to say, let's make sure we keep this real healthy. Let's make sure we make these eggs as nutritious as possible. And these chickens are happy. Of course not. And so in my world, what I can say to people is I make things out of wood. My company makes things out of wood.
- [38:21]
Ann Marie Baldonado
Wood.
- [38:22]
Nick Offerman
We pay them. This is four people. We pay a living wage. And you can get a dining table or a three legged stool or a set of coasters that will last you forever. That's of an incredibly high quality and we know where our trees came from.
- [38:36]
Ann Marie Baldonado
Well, speaking of little woodchucks, full disclosure. About a year ago, my husband and daughter tried a wood project together. They picked out wood, they started working on it. Then let's just say they had words and kind of lost patience with each other. And in all honesty, there's a half finished wood project in our basement. Do you have any advice for at times when working on a project together gets challenging or you know, when you were younger and you were working with your dad on things like how did he handle frustration between the two of you?
- [39:10]
Nick Offerman
Yeah, absolutely. I mean a huge lesson in the woodchomp is go in knowing that you're going to screw it up. Even those of us that are experts at it, we buy extra wood, we buy scrap wood to start on because we know we're going to make bad cuts. And so the projects in our book, there are these great beginner projects that just involve like gluing a couple pieces of wood together or making a box kite out of sticks and cork and paper, even those you're totally going to screw up. Like anything that is worth doing, you're going to mess up your first few tries. And so you're going to find out what people's strengths are. Some of your kids might be great with a hammer, some are definitely going to be terrible with a hammer, but they might be really good with a tape measure or addition and subtraction or band aids or baking cookies. But only by engaging in the world and getting our hands dirty do we find out what our calling is. And, you know, I mean, when I was growing up and my dad would lose patience, he did a great job of sticking with me and just allow each other to mess up because more often than not, that's what we're going to do. We're human beings.
- [40:29]
Ann Marie Baldonado
Nick Offerman, thank you so much for joining us.
- [40:33]
Nick Offerman
My pleasure.
- [40:35]
Terry Gross
Nick Offerman spoke with Fresh airs, Anne Marie Boldonado. He stars in the new series Margot's Got Money Troubles. His latest book is called Little Woodchucks. After we take a short break, John Powers will review Dan Levy's new Netflix comedy series, Big Mistakes.
- [40:51]
Announcer
This is FRESH AIR support for npr. And the following message come from Warby Parker, the one stop shop for all your vision needs. They offer expertly crafted prescription eyewear plus contacts, eye exams and more for everything you need to see. Visit your nearest Warby Parker store or head to warbyparker.com this message comes from Angie. Tackling a home project. Angie can connect you with pros who do such a good job you might ask them to be your kid's godfather. Don't do that. Just trust them to get the job done. Find a pro for your projects@angie.com that's a n g I.com Big Mistakes is
- [41:31]
Terry Gross
a new Netflix comedy series by and starring Dan Levy, who co created and co starred in Schitt's Creek. That's S C H I T T S the story concerns a squabbly New Jersey family headed by a mother, played by Laurie Metcalfe, that accidentally gets involved with gangsters. Our critic at large, John Power, says that while the show is more formulaic than Schitt's Creek, it kept him laughing.
- [41:58]
John Powers
If you ask the psychologists, they'll tell you that humor is a defense mechanism, a buffer between ourselves and the painfulness of reality. I'm not sure that's actually true. I think of laughter as something transcendent, but I have to admit that the world has gotten so alarming that I'd rather watch something funny than the news. I laughed A whole lot watching Big Mistakes, a new half hour Netflix crime comedy from Dan Levy of Schitt's Creek fame, who co created the series with Rachel Sennott. Set in a fictional New Jersey city, this story about an offbeat family that finds itself entangled with the mob is a wild and woolly inversion of Schitt's Creek, where that much adored show started out cartoonish and grew warmer and more humane. Big Mistake starts as a frolic, then morphs into a farce that grows more than a little hellish. Laurie Metcalfe stars as Linda, a histrionic single mother of three who's running for mayor with guidance from her favorite child, Natalie. That's Abby Quinn, who has the smug, small souled efficiency of a political operative. She clings to her mother's side like a barnacle. Things are more fraught with Linda's other kids. Levy plays Nicky, a fussy, anxious, closeted gay minister who hides his boyfriend from his parishioners. Nicky is forever bickering with his sister Morgan. That's Taylor Ortega, a chaos inducing schoolteacher with a real mouth on her. She's got a puppyish boyfriend she doesn't adore. When Linda orders Nicky and Morgan to get some jewelry for their dying grandmother, they commit a small, foolish crime that crazily leaves them beholden to mobsters even as they try to deal with everyday life. Their grandmother's funeral, their mother's campaign Sunday sermons. They're forced to do laughably dodgy missions that take them from strip clubs and cattle auctions to prisons and private jets. While all this has Nicky positively hissing with panic, Morgan digs the excitement, even growing attracted to a Turkish crook played by Boren Kuzum, whose presence may make you think of the film Anora. Here Nicky's in a tizzy because he's being tailed by a gangster and shows up at his mother's front door in the pouring rain.
- [44:22]
Ann Marie Baldonado
Come on, come on.
- [44:26]
John Powers
Since when are we locking the door?
- [44:28]
Nick Offerman
Since Susan Gotnick's garage got broken into
- [44:31]
Ann Marie Baldonado
a couple of weeks ago and all
- [44:32]
Nick Offerman
of her kids bikes got taken. Where's your umbrella in this rain? I can't lose my son and my mother on the same day. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Today has not brought out the best in me. I can admit that. How are you, dear? I'm not good. I'm not. I know. No, I just want a minute alone with my first board. Well, technically, that would be more. We do not talk about adoption in this home. I birthed you emotionally, which is just as painful. You're freezing.
- [44:59]
Terry Gross
Why are we standing?
- [45:00]
John Powers
You tell me now. It's hardly groundbreaking for a comedy to throw ordinary people into the shark infested waters of crime. Yet what matters in pop culture is less originality than verve and commitment. Although Big Mistakes isn't about much of anything and the gangster plot is wantonly implausible, it revels in its amusingly awkward situations and clever, kvetchy dialogue. Big Mistakes makes being frantic funny in a way that another new show, the Audacity, does not. Levy gives his all as Nicky, whose body language betrays emotional blockage, but whose face is a menagerie of stressed out ticks and grimaces. A sincere man of God, the show respects religious faith. He's a good, orderly person who's easily driven crazy by those who aren't orderly or good. This means he's perfectly paired with Morgan. She's the sort of shoot from the hip troublemaker I usually find annoying. But here in a career making performance, Ortega gives their scenes a real zing. Her run amok charm plays perfectly off Levy's tension. They drive each other bats as only family can. In a way, each embodies a side of their mother. It's another memorable role for Metcalfe, an astonishingly gifted comedian whose wildly expressive face can, in a microsecond go from a comedy mask to a tragedy mask and back again. Her Linda is the show's best character, a self made woman who's at once principled, hard working, sexually open and not a little loopy. She rides on emotional extremes, but we like her because she's savvy enough to know it. Now, like other comedic crime shows such as the Lowdown and How to get to Heaven from Belfast, this eight part show is best when not focusing on its underworld plot. The reason to watch is the by play between the family members who bubble with yakety dysfunction and the moments when the hijinks veer into delirium. I think you'll enjoy the late night visit to the cemetery and Linda wearing the ugliest face paint of all time. But I'm not so sure how you'll feel about the Rocky Mountain Oysters.
- [47:15]
Terry Gross
John Powers reviewed the new Netflix comedy series Big Mistakes tomorrow on Fresh Air. My guest will be Flea. After recording many albums with the Red Hot Chili Peppers, the band he co founded, he has his first solo album. We'll talk about why he was afraid to go home when he was growing up, how the Chili Peppers tried to be the wildest band ever, and how music saved him. I hope you'll join us to keep up with what's on the show and get highlights of our interviews. Follow us on Instagram prfreshair. Fresh Air's executive producer is Sam Brigger. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bradley. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Ann Marie Boldonado, Lauren Krenzel, Teresa Madden, Monique Nazareth, Thea Chaloner, Susan Yakundi, Anna Bauman and Nico Gonzalez Whistler. Our digital media producer is Molly Sivine Esper. Roberta Shorrock directs the show. Our co host is Tanya Mosley. I'm Terry Gross.
- [48:19]
Announcer
This message comes from Angie Tackling a home project. Angie can connect you with pros who do such a good job you might ask them your kid's godfather. Don't do that. Just trust them to get the job done. Find a pro for your projects@angie.com that's angi combination.