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- [00:00]
Terry Gross
This message comes from Capital One. Your business faces unique challenges and opportunities. That's why Capital One offers a comprehensive suite of financial services backed by the strength of a top 10 commercial bank. Visit capitalone.com Commercial Member FDIC hi, it's Terry Gross.
- [00:19]
Tanya Mosley
Before we start our show, I want to take a minute to remind you that it's almost Giving Tuesday, which is so named because it's become a day of expressing gratitude by giving money or any kind of help to an individual or group or organization organization that matters to you. We've found a way to turn Giving Tuesday into Giving and Getting Tuesday. If you subscribe to NPR plus in return, you'll be getting special bonus episodes from a bunch of NPR podcasts. These bonus episodes are available only to NPR subscribers. On FRESH air's bonus episodes, you'll hear hosted, curated, timely interviews from our archive every week. NPR plus members also get to listen to all NPR podcasts without interruptions from sponsors. And the subscription is a tax deductible donation. It's a win, win. So join us at plus.npr.org that's plus.npr.org or you can always make a gift at donate.npr.org thank you and thanks to everyone who's already supporting us. And now on with the show.
- [01:27]
This is FRESH air. I'm Tanya Mosley.
- [01:30]
Pharrell Williams
Quiet on the set. Kate Perrell, hey, how you doing, man? You know what would be cool is if we told my story with Lego pieces. Seriously? Yes, Lego. Just be open.
- [01:44]
Tanya Mosley
Yes, Lego. That's a scene from Piece by Piece, a new biopic about the life of music producer and multi hyphenate artist Pharrell. But to call it a biopic almost feels too simple. Like so much of Pharrell's music, the film is a mix of genres. It's a musical, it's a documentary, and it's a Lego animation all in one. It pieces together Pharrell's life growing up in Virginia beach and the lows and highs of his ascension within the music and fashion industry. And did I mention the music? The film gives us a behind the scenes look at the making of some of Pharrell's top hits that he's produced both for himself and and a long list of performers.
- [02:26]
Pharrell Williams
It might seem crazy what I'm about.
- [02:28]
Kelis
To say, Sunshine, she's here. You can take a break. So hot and hurts so hot and.
- [02:47]
Pharrell Williams
All I want to do is on my zoom zoom zoom in a boom boom.
- [02:52]
Tanya Mosley
All I want to do is on.
- [02:53]
Kelis
My zoom zoom zoom in a boom.
- [02:55]
Pharrell Williams
Boom Check baby Check baby 1, 2, 3, 4 Check baby, check baby 1, 2, 3 Check baby, check baby 1,2 Check baby, check baby 1 I'm a.
- [03:16]
Kelis
Hustler baby I just want you to know it ain't where I been but where I'm about to go I just want to love you be who I.
- [03:28]
Pharrell Williams
Am no you love me and with.
- [03:30]
Kelis
All this cash you forget your man don't be so quick to walk away Dance me I want to block your body Please say dance me. You don't have to admit you don't play this me. Let me plug you to the break this me uh huh this my. All the girls dump your feet like this. Few times I've been around that track so it's not just gonna happen like that Cause there ain't no hollow back girl Ain't no hollow back girl A few times I've been around that track so it's not gonna happen like that Cause ain't no hollow back I ain't no hollow back girl.
- [04:19]
Pharrell Williams
All my life I has to fight.
- [04:23]
Kelis
All my life Ah hard times like yeah bad like yeah Nazareth I'm up homie you up. But if God got us then we go be all right we gon be.
- [04:37]
Pharrell Williams
All right we gon be all right we going to be all right do you hear me? Do you feel me? We going to be all right.
- [04:47]
Tanya Mosley
Academy Award winning filmmaker Morgan Neville directed piece by piece with interviews from music industry heavy hitters like Snoop Dogg, Jay Z, Gwen Stefani, Justin Timberlake, Kendrick Lamar and his partner from the Neptune's, Chad Hugo. There's even a cameo of the late astronomer Carl Sagan. And everyone, of course, is a LEGO Pharrell Williams. Welcome to FRESH air.
- [05:10]
Pharrell Williams
Thank you. Your voice is amazing.
- [05:14]
Tanya Mosley
The film is so cinematic. And I never thought I'd say that about a LEGO film, but it is cinematic. Why lego?
- [05:21]
Pharrell Williams
Oh, because when I was a child, you know, my fondest memories of like, having toys and my earliest memories were the LEGO sets that, like, my parents would get me when I was really, really, really young. The idea that you get to like, escape when you don't even know that you're escaping because you're just literally ideating and imagining in real time as you build with these pieces and whether you actually, whether you actually really build what the set is all about or you're just putting pieces together, like what it does for the young mind and how it sets it free, it's just magical. And at the same time, I really also wanted, like, if I'm going to tell my story, which I was never really interested in doing. If I'm going to do it, I want to do it in a way that, like, my children, which were our old. We have our oldest and then our triplets were just being. They had just been born, so four young kids.
- [06:21]
Tanya Mosley
And, like, how old were they at the time with this idea? Because this was five, six years ago, right?
- [06:25]
Pharrell Williams
Yeah. At that point, our oldest may have been eight or nine. And then our babies had just been born, and so they're now seven. And my whole thing was, like. I didn't know how long the animation process was gonna take, but I definitely wanted them to understand the story as their dad would tell it. I wanted them to be able to get it. You know, if you tell it through the guys of lego, it's like, okay, they understand. It's like a world, you know, it's the only way it was gonna happen if I was ever gonna do it. I wasn't interested in doing a biopic. No way.
- [07:00]
Tanya Mosley
Why?
- [07:00]
Pharrell Williams
Because for two reasons. One, I have such a high standard of stories, and I didn't really think my story would be interesting. Storytelling, to me, is an art form, and not everybody is good at it. And you need really interesting components to the story for it to be compelling. And then as a performer, like, I just, you know, say, who wants to see me? It's a lot like, you're probably used to your voice at this point.
- [07:37]
Tanya Mosley
Yeah.
- [07:38]
Pharrell Williams
But even still, do you like hearing yourself on a voicemail? It's the worst.
- [07:43]
Tanya Mosley
I won't even listen to this. Pharrell.
- [07:45]
Pharrell Williams
Right. See, I don't either. I don't look at my video. I don't, you know, read my interviews. I just don't. It's too much. My standards are too high. But I call it voicemail syndrome. So if you're saying you don't like it and you hate it, imagine an hour and change of it.
- [08:00]
Tanya Mosley
I know. So the process, though, because like you said, it took five years because of the animation process to turn what was your life into a Lego movie. And one of the things that Neville did in this film was visualize your ability to hear colors and see sound. You talk about this often, synesthesia, which is a neurological mixing of senses in the film. What's so cool is that when you make music, the colors correspond with it. And then you give the piece of music as a musical note to the artist, and it's a beautiful color. You see seven colors, right, that denote notes. Can you explain that to us?
- [08:44]
Pharrell Williams
If you take it back to when you were born all of your nerve endings. Sight, sound, smell, taste, feeling, they were all connected. And then when you turn one, those nerve endings, they prune. And sometimes some of them stay connected. And the ones that stay connected give you synesthesia. And when they're connected, they send ghost images and ghost information to the different parts of the brain. And so you'll end up hearing a color or seeing a sound.
- [09:20]
Tanya Mosley
Yes.
- [09:21]
Pharrell Williams
Right. But there's all kinds.
- [09:23]
Tanya Mosley
Yep.
- [09:24]
Pharrell Williams
And when you go and do the research, you realize a lot of, like, you know, there are graphemic synesthetes, too. And those are the people who, like, can recite, you know, 26 digit numbers, because they see the two as slightly tilted and they see the four as in burgundy. And they see, you know, and so it gives them this information and, you know, it's great for them.
- [09:50]
Tanya Mosley
And what's amazing is a lot of musicians do tons of them. Have you worked with any of them? Because I was reading that Stevie Wonder might even have a form of synesthesia. And that makes sense because so much of his music, he is describing. He is describing color. There is just like, a really beautiful sense of that within the music.
- [10:09]
Pharrell Williams
What I find fascinating is, like, man, if he's never seen red before, then how does he know what red is?
- [10:15]
Tanya Mosley
Right.
- [10:16]
Pharrell Williams
How do we know that he's not seeing orange, but he thinks it's red? And there's no way to really verify that, but he is seeing red. I mean, he's a genius, man. I don't know. I was just saying you can go down a rabbit hole with synesthesia, but.
- [10:32]
Tanya Mosley
Have you and an artist ever vibed over that?
- [10:35]
Pharrell Williams
Yeah. Cause we all see different things. It utilizes the Roy G Biv, but it's not based on the ROYGBIV's arrangement.
- [10:42]
Tanya Mosley
Mm. What do you mean?
- [10:44]
Pharrell Williams
Meaning, you know, certain people hear chords and they don't necessarily picture the same colors. Everybody's. It's very unique.
- [10:52]
Tanya Mosley
I wanna play a song just to give us, like, a better understanding of how your process works. So I chose Milkshake, which I heard in a commercial recently. I mean, we're here. Time has really gone by. Right. That milkshake is in a commercial. But Milkshake was a 2003 song performed by Kelis and written and produced by you and Ch. Chad Hugo as the Neptunes. Let's listen to a little.
- [11:19]
Kelis
My milkshake brings all our boys to the yard and they're like, it's better than yours. Damn right it's better than yours. I could teach you, but I happen to Know you want it the thing that makes me what the guys go crazy for they lose their minds the way I want I think it's time la la la la la Warm it.
- [11:49]
Tanya Mosley
Up La la la la that was Kelis performing milkshake, written and produced by my guest today, Pharrell. Okay, what does milkshake look like to you, Pharrell?
- [12:02]
Pharrell Williams
It is like the shapes are hard for me to explain, but it sort of zigzags. And those synth lines are yellow and brown for me. And the yellow goes from bright to mustard marigold. And in there, it's like, just, like, very stark brown.
- [12:23]
Tanya Mosley
What I've always found really interesting about your music, it feels like environmental. Like, I'm hearing, like, just sounds that I hear in my everyday life. And that one in particular, like, there are the bells and, like, buzzing sounds and things like that. Yeah.
- [12:40]
Pharrell Williams
That song came from a trip that I went to in Brazil, and I just, like, lost my mind. I've never seen so many beautiful women all in. They were just everywhere. And forgive the objectification when I say that.
- [13:01]
Tanya Mosley
Yeah.
- [13:02]
Pharrell Williams
But that was the impression that it made on my mind at that time. I don't know. 20 years ago. I don't know.
- [13:07]
Tanya Mosley
Right, right.
- [13:09]
Pharrell Williams
I was. You know, I was a kid, really. You're just like, whoa. I'd never seen anything like that. Where am I? And if you could put that energy and feeling. If that could be sort of transmutated, if you will.
- [13:25]
Tanya Mosley
Mm. Into a song.
- [13:28]
Pharrell Williams
Yeah. That was the attempt.
- [13:31]
Tanya Mosley
One of the things that the film does is give us a grounding of you as a young person coming into your. And synesthesia is a condition that you don't know any other way because that's how you've always been. But when did you realize that others may not see the world the way that you do?
- [13:51]
Pharrell Williams
Oh, when you talk about it in a conversation and they kind of be like, what. What'd you say? What colors?
- [13:59]
Tanya Mosley
You mentioned how when one of your senses is being blocked, basically, sensory deprivation, it allows your mind to wonder and be imaginative. I was really interested in this because I' done, like, the sensory deprivation tanks, and I thought it was so interesting, like, to hear my heart beat in my ears. I was wondering, as part of your process, do you create for yourself sensory deprivation at times so that you could actually hear your creativity or imagination?
- [14:26]
Pharrell Williams
Well, that is like a controlled environment where you have the ultimate sensory deprivation. What you're talking about those chambers, but a simpler version of it is just like when you're in the shower, you know, and the water's just consistently running. And it creates an effect of white noise. And that's the reason why you can think clearly when you shower, or ideas come to you.
- [14:51]
Tanya Mosley
Do ideas come to you?
- [14:52]
Pharrell Williams
Of course ideas come. Or sometimes people sing in the shower. That's the reason why they do it is because that consistent noise, that white noise, is particularly freeing to the part of your mind that wants to just iterate and not be distracted by environmentally distracted. So running water, being near water, being in water, a bath, a pool, seeing the ocean, standing in the shower, washing my hands in the sink. It does it for me.
- [15:28]
Tanya Mosley
I think we learn in the movie that happy came from running water.
- [15:33]
Pharrell Williams
For you, that was a cinematic liberty.
- [15:38]
Tanya Mosley
Okay, okay.
- [15:41]
Pharrell Williams
When it was a way of just, like, sort of simplifying how the process came about. I was in the studio racking my brain for that song. And after nine different songs and versions of something to fill in the blank for that movie, the song is a sarcastic answer of frustration for a rhetorical question. How do you make a song about someone so happy that nothing can bring them down? I mean, like, get out of here.
- [16:11]
Tanya Mosley
Okay. So it's 2013. You're tasked with writing music for Despicable MeToo. As you said, you're racking your brain and, like, nothing's coming up that, like, they love, the executives love. And then this happy song comes up. Was it a hit immediately or did you have to sell it as well?
- [16:29]
Pharrell Williams
They got it, but then all of a sudden, when the movie came out, they went to go try to work it at radio, and they couldn't get it to work at radio. Cause it just didn't sound. It was alien. It didn't sound like anything else.
- [16:44]
Tanya Mosley
So radio stations wouldn't play it?
- [16:46]
Pharrell Williams
No, no. They didn't play it until we did the video six months later when the song was included on the DVD. There were DVDs at that time, and there was a budget to do a video for the song, since we loved it, as a companion piece to sell the dvd.
- [17:06]
Tanya Mosley
One of the things you discovered that you talked about a lot, but it's so powerful to me because it articulated a feeling that I felt is, like, so many people told you what that song meant for them, but what that revealed to you was the pain that many people are in. Almost the opposite of happiness.
- [17:24]
Pharrell Williams
Oh, I'm very empathetic. So as they're telling you what they went through, it's heavy, you know, And I absorbed it in a way that, like, it was just a lot for me.
- [17:36]
Tanya Mosley
I Want to talk with you a little bit about working with artists because there's this story of you and snoop Dogg working together that's told in the film. And you all collaborated on the 2004 hit Drop It Like It's Hot. Let's listen.
- [17:53]
Kelis
SN.
- [18:15]
Pharrell Williams
Drop It like it's hot? Drop it like it's hot? Drop it like it's hot? When the pigs try to get at you? Park it like it's hot? Park it like it's hot? Park it like it's hot? Never get an attitude Pop it like it's hot? Pop it like it's hot? Pop it like it's hot? I got the rolly on my arm and I'm pouring Sean dawn and I'm all the best? Cause I gotta go with Omaha? I'm a nice dude with some nice dream? See these ice cubes? See these ice creams? Eligible bachelor, million dollar bow that's whiter than what's spilling down your throat? The phantom exterior like fish eggs the interior like suicide wrist red I can exercise you? This could be your phys Cheat on your man one that's how you get a his ad Kill it with the.
- [18:57]
Tanya Mosley
V that Snoop Dogg's drop it like it's Hot, which was produced by my guest today, pharrell and Pharrell. Snoop dogg said in the movie that I wanna get this right, that you were the first to allow us, the public, to see the smile in him. And I thought that was so tender. And it made me think, are you really responsible for Snoop dogg becoming America's uncle? Cause, you know, after that song, he did become this force that, you know, we now see him beyond, like, that Persona as the hard west coast rapper. Do you understand what he meant when he says that, like, you allowed us to see the smile in him through that song?
- [19:37]
Pharrell Williams
You know, when he says all those really nice things, I'm always just always taken aback by it. And I don't know if I really get what he implies, but I'm honored that he associates me with those types of reflections.
- [19:57]
Tanya Mosley
Well, what did you see in him for that song? Cause that song is light. It does provide, like, you know, it's got the groove, but it also has, like, a lightness to it.
- [20:08]
Pharrell Williams
Wow. It's interesting that you see drop it like it's hot as, like, a light, the lightness. And I guess I never really looked at it that way. I mean, at the time, I just knew the traumas was hitting hard and it felt good. I don't know if I had ever really given any any kind of emotive analysis of it. But I guess you're right. It's not dark. Like, you're right. That's true. Never saw it that way until you said it.
- [20:33]
Tanya Mosley
I mean, well, you said that you often try to reverse engineer the feeling that you feel about an artist when you all are first working together so that you can come up with that sound. Can you say more about that?
- [20:46]
Pharrell Williams
Well, it's the energy that people have when they walk in. It's what they say that they're looking for, and then it's what their voice and energy tells you that it needs. It's sort of a combination of all three. Every once in a while, someone walks in saying they want one thing, and I'm like, no, you don't, or I disagree or I just don't see that in you. And I'm not always right. Sometimes they go out and go do it somewhere else and it's like, damn, you know what? I didn't see that. But that's me, though. I'll tell you in a heartbeat, man. I just didn't see it.
- [21:15]
Tanya Mosley
Our guest today is Pharrell Williams. We'll be right back after a short break. I'm Tanya Mosley, and this is FRESH air.
- [21:23]
Terry Gross
This message comes from NPR sponsor Saatva Founder and CEO Ron Rudsen shares the experience they hope to create in their viewing rooms.
- [21:33]
Pharrell Williams
We want our customers to feel like they've walked into a luxury hotel. That's what Saatva has been inspired by. From the day that we started.
- [21:40]
Tanya Mosley
We take sleep very seriously.
- [21:42]
Pharrell Williams
We believe it unlocks a superpower. If you get the right sleep on the right mattress, we believe we can provide that.
- [21:47]
Terry Gross
Visit saatva.com NPR and save up to $600.
- [21:54]
Ron Rudsen
This message comes from NPR sponsor Merrill. Whatever your financial goals are, you want a straightforward path there. But the real world doesn't usually work that way. Merrill understands that. That's why with a dedicated Merrill advisor, you get a personalized plan and a clear path forward. Go to ML.combullish to learn more. Merrill, a Bank of America company. What would you like the power to do Investing involves risk. Merrill Lynch, Pierce Fenner and Smith Inc. Registered Broker Dealer Registered investment advisor Member, SIPC this message comes from Apple Card. Apple Card is the perfect card for your holiday shopping. When you use Apple Card on your iPhone, you'll earn up to 3% daily cash back on every purchase, including products at Apple like a new iPhone 16 or Apple Watch Ultra. Apply now in the Wallet app on your iPhone subject to credit approval. Apple card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch terms and more@applecard.com this is FRESH AIR.
- [22:51]
Tanya Mosley
I'm Tanya Mosley and today my guest is multi hyphenate artist and music producer Pharrell. We're talking about his new animated biopic Piece by Piece, which is about his life growing up in Virginia Beach, Virginia, and his career in the music industry creating hits like Drop It, Like It's Hot, Get Lucky and the phenomenon that was happy. The film is done entirely using Lego animation. You have this ability to capture the essence of an artist. There's times, though, when artists don't want what you're giving. You said so nicely in the film. I wrote this song for Prince and he didn't want it. It ended up being a hit for you. But what's the story behind that of you writing a song for Prince and he not accepting it?
- [23:38]
Pharrell Williams
Well, he was different. You know, he had. There was, you know, he was one of those people that, like, he's a musical savant. There's not an instrument he couldn't pick up and play. He's a brilliant writer. Vocally, he's incredible. He was an incredible performer and he wrote and produced for so many people. So in his mind, it's like, you know, there's caveats, buddy. I know, I know. And one of which was like, do you own all your masters? If you don't own your masters, we can't work together. I was like, whoa.
- [24:14]
Tanya Mosley
Was he one of the first to say that to you? Had you heard that before?
- [24:17]
Pharrell Williams
No, I never heard anyone say that before. Then his other thing was he wanted to, like, sort of talk about religion. And I was like, interesting. And, you know, now I do own all of my master recordings. And I'd be happy to square off in a conversation about the business of religion versus the necessity of faith.
- [24:44]
Tanya Mosley
At that time, it felt. Was it over your head?
- [24:47]
Pharrell Williams
No, I just was young and was like, for real. Okay, whatever. You know, not knowing that he wasn't gonna be here that long, you know.
- [24:56]
Tanya Mosley
What year was this?
- [24:57]
Pharrell Williams
I wasn't. I was incredibly respectful. I mean, he was the goat then. He still is. You know what I'm saying? I don't know. This might have been like the early 2000s.
- [25:08]
Tanya Mosley
The song was frontin right?
- [25:10]
Pharrell Williams
Yeah. But that was just the music for it.
- [25:13]
Tanya Mosley
Okay.
- [25:13]
Pharrell Williams
At the time. Yeah.
- [25:15]
Tanya Mosley
I was wondering a little bit. I wanted to talk to you for a minute about your singing voice. Like, how did you find your singing voice? Because up until the moment when you decided to become like, this solo artist with your own music. You were making beats for other people. And did you always know that you were a falsetto? Like, how did you find that voice?
- [25:36]
Pharrell Williams
I had a problem with my voice for many, many, many years because that was just it. I didn't feel like I had found my voice. I always thought, like, my tone sounded like Mickey mouse. The next time you listen to frontin picture Mickey mouse, you can't unsee it.
- [25:55]
Tanya Mosley
Stop.
- [25:55]
Pharrell Williams
I swear that's one now that's just my tone. Then there is skill set.
- [26:01]
Tanya Mosley
Yeah.
- [26:03]
Pharrell Williams
Not being flat. I definitely didn't use any kind of tuning back then. So I was flat all over the place. Sounding like a hot vermin. Just sounding crazy. And my standard is super high. Remember I told you that's the reason why I didn't want to do a documentary. My standard is high. I work with great singers. I worked with Beyonce before. I work with Rihanna. I work with, like, people who really can sing. I work with Shakira. I work with Kim Burrell. Yeah, I work with singers. I work with the Clark sisters. I know what like, singing really, really, really is. The craft of singing is a real thing.
- [26:42]
Tanya Mosley
How did you get over it then? If you felt like you sounded like Mickey mouse because there was a part of you that wanted it. Like, you wanted to be a solo artist, you wanted to be a star, you wanted to be successful.
- [26:52]
Pharrell Williams
That was ego. When I did front and I wanted to show that, like, I was known for, like, rapping and making beats at the time. And I was like, yo, I'm gonna go do this thing too. It was more of a flex. And then I looked up and was like, oh, but then you gotta go out there and go tour it. And I hated touring.
- [27:09]
Tanya Mosley
What don't you like about it?
- [27:12]
Pharrell Williams
I love being all over the world. I hated staying in different hotels and not really having, like, the right options that I felt like I wanted to. I was always that way. I was a very particular child, you know, I like what I like and when I can't have what it is that I like. I'm very routine. And I ain't realized that. I didn't realize a lot of things until later in life. But my issues were like, that I was very hardwired for regiment and consistency and I don't like new environments. But I love, man touring with nerd and going to, like, Sydney or, you know, or Amsterdam or like, London, Brixton shows. But I hated. I didn't really enjoy, like, the hotel accommodations and I didn't really like being on the bus all the time. I was like not into that at all. So, you know, I was just very particular as a kid and I just didn't understand what I didn't understand. And I didn't have anyone to explain it to me because I came from Virginia. You know, there wasn't like a blossoming music industry. There wasn't known for that. It was only that when Teddy moved there and brought his studio and like his whole entire business outfit there, that's how we got into the music industry. But other than that, it would have never happened. So there was no one to really show us the ropes. It's not like being here in Our.
- [28:47]
Tanya Mosley
Guest today is Pharrell Williams. Here's his song frontin from 2003 don't.
- [29:13]
Kelis
Wanna sound full of myself a rude but you ain't looking at no other dud cause you love me I'm sorry baby so sexy so you think about a chance you find yourself trying to do my dance maybe cause you love me.
- [29:30]
Pharrell Williams
You doing well so then we.
- [29:33]
Kelis
Tried singing us low now because you weren't used to how fast we touched fast we touched then we locked eyes knew I wasn't there and I was going to tell you.
- [29:49]
Pharrell Williams
I know that.
- [29:50]
Kelis
I'm carrying on never mind if I'm showing off I was just run you know I want to b I'm ready to be less you care at home but you know I want you you should stop front bab trying to be.
- [30:12]
Tanya Mosley
We'll be right back after a short break. I'm Tonya Mosley and this is FRESH air.
- [30:17]
Terry Gross
This message comes from Capital One, offering commercial solutions you can bank on. Now more than ever, your business faces unique challenges and opportunities. That's why Capital One offers a comprehensive suite of financial services all tailored to your short and long term goals. Backed by the strength and stability of a top 10 commercial bank, their dedicated experts work with you to build lasting success. Explore the possibilities@capitalone.com commercial a member FDIC.
- [30:50]
Ron Rudsen
Support for this podcast and the following message come from Ford Senior Director Becca Anderson shares one way that Ford is serving their EV drivers.
- [30:58]
Tanya Mosley
The Ford Power Promise is designed to inspire confidence for electric vehicle owners around charging at home, on the road, confidence in their Battery with the 8 year 100,000 mile warranty and that they have.
- [31:12]
Access to electric vehicle expertise.
- [31:14]
Ron Rudsen
To learn how ford is supporting EV drivers, go to FordPowerpromise.com or your local Ford dealer. See dealer and the Battery Electric Vehicle Warranty Guide for limited warranty details this is FRESH air.
- [31:27]
Tanya Mosley
And today we're talking to multi hyphenate artist and music producer Pharrell about his new animated bio pic, Piece by Piece, which is about his life growing up in Virginia Beach, Virginia, and his career in the music industry creating hits like Drop It, Like It's Hot, Get Lucky and the phenomenon that was Happy. The film is done entirely using Lego animation. You grew up in Virginia Beach. Can you describe where you grew up? Atlanta's housing projects.
- [31:57]
Pharrell Williams
It was public housing. We lived on a federal subsidy. So, you know, government cheese and you know, all those essentials, Government Edition. Like, you know, that was the vibe, right?
- [32:12]
Tanya Mosley
Yeah.
- [32:13]
Pharrell Williams
When you live in those neighborhoods, you're really, you're really living next door and right on top of each other. The units are not that big, so a lot of the people, the tenants spend a lot of their time outside. And so you're in a community that is closely packed. The units are facing each other. So almost all the structures of the neighborhood are forming courts, courtyards. You are facing each other, oftentimes maybe even pitted against each other. And usually, if you're lucky, there's two ways in and out of the neighborhood. But most of the time there's only one way in and one way out. And it produces this type of person. Outside looking in, people were afraid to go in there. Inside looking out, it was very magical because everybody was so close in proximity. It produced, you know, you talk about like carbon, right. Black, you know, that heat, that pressure that time produced a lot of diamonds. There were a lot of athletes that were incredibly gifted, a lot of artists that were incredibly gifted. Now the odds are pretty much stacked against you because your teachers need to see what you have in you and in terms of your propensity. And not all of the education didn't always meet us in the intersection of where we were, how we process information to like thinking about what we were going to do in our 5 and 10 year and 15 year trajectory. They weren't having those kinds of conversations. So, yeah, that was what it was like to be on a federal subsidy. It's like you're an outcast before you even step foot outside the neighborhood. You don't even know.
- [34:00]
Tanya Mosley
It was so vibrant the way it was shown in the movie. At the same time, though, because we.
- [34:04]
Pharrell Williams
Didn'T want to make poverty porn. That's the thing. It's like I said, outside looking in, you think, oh, woe is me, so poor, man. We were having so much fun. You go in that neighborhood, you see 20 kids doing wheelies on their bicycles from light pole to light pole.
- [34:21]
Tanya Mosley
And you felt like. And I understand this feeling that there's so many. Like, there are so many talented people. You ask yourself, why you.
- [34:30]
Pharrell Williams
That was it. Why me? Cause I knew I was the least talented person in my neighborhood. Atlantis was and is teeming with really talented people. All the housing projects they ran.
- [34:45]
Tanya Mosley
Don't feel survivor's guilt.
- [34:48]
Pharrell Williams
Uh, no, never survivor's guilt. Just more just like. Just questioning, just trying to understand it. Cause if I don't know why, then I'm like, well, how long is it gonna last? Then I don't. If I don't know why, then I don't know the when. If I don't know when, then I don't, you know, Do I really understand the.
- [35:05]
Tanya Mosley
What do you feel like, you know, now?
- [35:08]
Pharrell Williams
Oh, yeah. My job is to hold the door open. Yeah, for sure.
- [35:13]
Tanya Mosley
I love how you described it many years ago. You said that in many ways, it feels parallel in your mind conceptually to America itself because it's progression that you're in love with, but it's also like untapped potential. It's a place with so much untapped potential.
- [35:33]
Pharrell Williams
Yeah.
- [35:33]
Tanya Mosley
Can you say more about that?
- [35:36]
Pharrell Williams
Oh, it's a beautiful place. It's its second tier market, and it is still teeming. Teeming with low hanging fruit. And if you're willing to take the time out to fly there and go shake the tree yourself, you actually get some of the sweeter fruit to fall. It's there.
- [35:58]
Tanya Mosley
That's so interesting because, like, as we will see in the film, as you mentioned, record producer Teddy Riley discovered you and the Neptunes at a talent show. And just to give people a little bit of the backstory, he set up his studio in Virginia Beach. Future recording studios, right across the street from your high school. How did you and Chad prepare for this talent show?
- [36:22]
Pharrell Williams
We just had Chad's keyboard, you know, the stuff that we had programmed in there. And we just went out there and did what we could.
- [36:32]
Tanya Mosley
What's so cool about Teddy Riley coming to Virginia Beach? Is like, he didn't really even have that much of a connection to Virginia Beach. Like, it seems so serendipitous that he would say, of all the places I'm gonna put a studio in Virginia Beach. And he talks about why he ended up doing that to get away from, like, a lot of things.
- [36:50]
Pharrell Williams
I still don't know why. He's told it a million times, and I swear to you, I cannot walk away with a deduced, clear idea of why? He chose Virginia Beach, Virginia, and chose right there on Virginia Beach Boulevard, literally right next to my school. A five minute walk. And not five years before we were there or five years after. Like, literally while we were there. Yeah, I mean, he had, like, Bobby Brown pulling up to the studio, you know, getting out of, like, expensive foreign cars with furs on. I had never seen a fur jacket, a short fur jacket, or let alone dudes wearing furs. Like, I didn't. That's like a New York thing or like something you would see, like mobsters with. But, like, we didn't see that. And he was making amazing guy music and making amazing. This is before black street. Amazing guy music. He was making Bobby Brown music. You know, he had just done Dangerous for Michael Jackson. We were like, who is this guy that, like, Teddy Riley, like, is one of the greatest producers ever? And we've moved where.
- [37:55]
Tanya Mosley
And so after he saw you guys in that talent show, you worked in his studio for a little bit. What did you learn from working in his studio?
- [38:02]
Pharrell Williams
Well, I learned studio etiquette. Be quiet when, like, masters are at work. And I learned very hard lessons about that. I was like, man, why don't you change that chord? Or, you know, you should use a different snare. Like, what?
- [38:16]
Tanya Mosley
I never thought I'd see it, but we got to see Rump Shaker in Lego form in this movie, the actual.
- [38:23]
Pharrell Williams
Video, which is crazy.
- [38:26]
Tanya Mosley
It is crazy. The video, you know, the legendary iconic scene from the video is the woman with the saxophone. And you guys actually have her in Lego form in sax. But people will learn the story in the film. But what verse did you write for Teddy's Rump Shaker?
- [38:44]
Pharrell Williams
The verse that he says. The one where it's Chetty ready with the Teddy, ready with the 1, 2, checker.
- [38:50]
Tanya Mosley
That part you call yourself during those early years. You said it a few times during our conversation, like, arrogance, hubris, and. Yeah, can you say more of what you meant by that? Like, what did that look like a young Pharrell.
- [39:08]
Pharrell Williams
I just didn't know no better. I just thought, oh, like. Because I came from an era of, like, people bragging, you know, you would beat your chest, you would pat your back. I'm the best. I'm this, I'm that. You know. You know, you saw a lot of, like, really greatest of all time people. Ali, you know, Michael Jordan, you know, Michael Jackson, Prince, you know, Michael had humble energy, but if you. He'll tell you he was the greatest and that was his goal. So you dealing with that, then you Dealing with every rapper saying they're the best, they're baddest, they're the this, they're that. It's just. It was just everywhere. All the athletes, the artists, you know, the any and everybody of note, right, was. Would champion their brand with borderline hubris or full blown, like, arrogance. And you would have to be good enough to back these things up.
- [40:04]
Tanya Mosley
I feel like you couldn't be any other way, though. I mean, if you're coming from nowhere, essentially you are the hype man. You're the one that's got to tell people, I'm good.
- [40:13]
Pharrell Williams
Yeah. But then, like, at a certain point, I met Nigo San out in Japan and this guy.
- [40:18]
Tanya Mosley
And who is that? Just to let people know who don't know.
- [40:20]
Pharrell Williams
Nigo is my partner in Human Made. He's a Japanese founder, you know, apparel and footwear designer. When I met him in Tokyo, you know, he had more Rolls Royces than me. And he did not brag. And he didn't say anything at all, really. He just would, like pull up and just be like, wow, the power of the silence. That changed me. I was like, man, I don't need to brag. And then like, you know, and that was. That started the process. That was like 20 something years ago. And I still kind of bragged, but I took note that, like, he had way more impact. And he didn't say anything. He just pull up or he just put that on.
- [41:08]
Tanya Mosley
Yeah.
- [41:08]
Pharrell Williams
Or, you know, he'd just be doing the most but not saying anything.
- [41:13]
Tanya Mosley
Right.
- [41:14]
Pharrell Williams
You know, doing the most, but saying the least. And then like when I turned 40, then, like, you know, I had like a series song, a series of songs go number one that were commissioned for people. They were looking for specific things. It wasn't just me waking up going, I'm gonna do this for you and this is what you need. It was more like the universe came to me with three different things that I needed to do. And when I did them, they became bigger records than anything I had ever done before. So that, like, it humbled me. It made me cry. It was like, whoa, okay. All this time I thought it was all about me. And, you know, I'm the genesis of this, of what I'm doing. And, you know, I come up with the impetus and the universe was like, nah, you know, you had to be frustrated. You tried it nine times and it didn't work, did it? And then I decided that you would have some success. The universe says to me, you know, and it was three times that year. I Had three number ones and was.
- [42:11]
Tanya Mosley
Like, okay, what were the number ones you remember?
- [42:14]
Pharrell Williams
Blurred lines. Get lucky and happy.
- [42:21]
Tanya Mosley
What a year. My gosh.
- [42:23]
Pharrell Williams
That was a summer.
- [42:24]
Tanya Mosley
Yeah, that was a summer.
- [42:25]
Pharrell Williams
Yeah.
- [42:26]
Tanya Mosley
Blurred Lines is an interesting one because you learned other lessons from that. I mean, a lawsuit came out of that. Marvin Gaye's family said that it was very similar to a record of his.
- [42:36]
Pharrell Williams
Yep.
- [42:37]
Tanya Mosley
Did this change the way you approach music? Approach? When you're wanting to have a similar sound to something else to call back to our memory? It's confusing to me, honestly, Pharrell, because so much music calls back. You know what I mean?
- [42:53]
Pharrell Williams
Well, that's the thing. But is it calling back because it is a familiar feeling, or is it calling back because it's actually using the same elemental building blocks of the music and is it protectable?
- [43:10]
Tanya Mosley
Those were the questions that were up. Right.
- [43:12]
Pharrell Williams
Right. And the universe did something because I had, up until that point, I had only graduated high school, but I went back to school and got my master's in music theory because I wanted to understand why we lost that case when I knew fundamentally what the differences were. And, yeah, so I got my master's and working on my doctorate.
- [43:38]
Tanya Mosley
You're working on your doctorate? Is it in music?
- [43:41]
Pharrell Williams
Because I have three honorary doctorates right now, and I felt like the universe was telling me, like, listen, you need to, like, go back to school.
- [43:48]
Tanya Mosley
Is it. Is it in music theory?
- [43:50]
Pharrell Williams
Yeah, in music theory.
- [43:51]
Tanya Mosley
How did that change your approach, though, to producing music?
- [43:55]
Pharrell Williams
Oh, I mean, I just. I've always known music. I was classically trained as a percussionist, but when it came to, like, the harmonics, it was always by ear. So I was instinctively learned. But now I have an academic understanding for what it is that I'm actually playing when I'm playing things with harmony.
- [44:18]
Tanya Mosley
Let's take a short break. If you're just joining us, my guest today is Pharrell. We're talking about his new animated biopic, Piece by Piece. We'll continue our conversation after a short break. This is FRESH air.
- [44:31]
Ron Rudsen
Support for this podcast and the following message come from Crown, publisher of the Demon of Unrest. A saga of hubris, heartbreak and heroism at the dawn of the Civil War. By Erik Larson. The Demon of Unrest is available wherever books and audiobooks are sold.
- [44:46]
Terry Gross
This message comes from NPR sponsor Think Fun. Looking for that purr fect gift for the holidays? Love a game that's more than just solving the challenge? Think Fun's Crash Cats has the challenge of a logic game with the excitement of cats flying through the air, set up the board and then slide the pieces to get the cats to launch. Designed for kids 8 who want excitement in their gameplay, Mark pure joy off your holiday list with the Gift of Crash Cats. Now available@Amazon.com this message comes from Viking. Committed to exploring the world in comfort. Journey through the heart of Europe on an elegant Viking longship with thoughtful service, destination focused dining and cultural enrichment on board and on shore. And every Viking voyage is all inclusive with no children and no casinos.
- [45:37]
Tanya Mosley
Discover more@viking.com this is FRESH AIR, and today I'm talking with multi hyphenate artist and music producer Pharrell about his new animated biopic Piece by Peace, which is about his life growing up in Virginia Beach, Virginia and career in the music industry creating hits like Drop It Like It's Hot, Get Lucky and the Phenomenon that Was Happy. The film is done entirely using Lego animation. Gosh, Pharrell, one of my favorite Henry Louis Gates PBS Finding youg Roots episodes was yours. You learned about your ancestors. In particular, you actually learned about some of your great, great, great aunts and uncles who were born into slavery in 1852. And the interview with Gates found that they were part of this slave narrative project which documented the oral histories of formerly enslaved people. You had a chance to read from that, and in this clip I'm about to play, you're reading a description of your aunt.
- [46:47]
Pharrell Williams
We lived in log houses with stick and dirt chimneys. They called them the slave houses. I worked on the farm cutting corn stalks and tending to cattle. And slavery time. Sometimes I swept the yards after working all day. There was a task of cotton to be picked and spun by them. What kind of people? What kind of people? It puts a very vivid, intense context behind what it means to be African American. And I thank God that I got to hear it. What? I'm so sorry they went through this. Oh, nobody should have gone through this. It's a lot, man. Oh, I have to say, I am forever changed.
- [47:49]
Tanya Mosley
That was my guest Pharrell on Finding youg Roots, reacting to the description of what his relatives endured during slavery. And it's a powerful moment because you get to hear what their daily lives are like, what they were doing from hour to hour. And it's always a gift for us to know. I felt like I was living vicariously through you. You being able to find out the details. You said it forever changed you. How has it?
- [48:16]
Pharrell Williams
Well, I was living vicariously through them, reading these things, and I just felt like it was such a gift to have that connection you know, as black people in America, most of us don't have a connection to our lineage or ancestral lineage in that way. We just don't know, you know, not like a lot of our other sibling species of different demographics who do know their ancestral lineage. They have their cultural history. And so they know. And so when they speak, they speak from a different place. There's a confidence in their tones because you know where you come from and because you know who you've been, you know who you are and you know who you want to be. We don't have that now you have.
- [49:04]
Tanya Mosley
A little bit of it.
- [49:05]
Pharrell Williams
Yeah. It's a very big difference. And so you feel difference and you feel different and you feel more solid when you pivot. There's a lot more connection to the ground. And the gravity of not knowing is not pulling you down. But now you are using that. You're harnessing that gravity to take bigger steps forward. Now it's different.
- [49:27]
Tanya Mosley
Well, Pharrell, this has been such a pleasure to learn about how you got to this moment, and I really thank you for your time.
- [49:34]
Pharrell Williams
Thank you.
- [49:35]
Tanya Mosley
Pharrell Williams new animated biopic is called Piece by Piece. It's in theaters and available for streaming on Amazon Prime, Apple TV, YouTube and other platforms.
- [49:48]
Kelis
Clap along if you feel like a.
- [49:51]
Tanya Mosley
Room without a roof on Monday's show, Music in conversation with Jaron Paxton, a multi instrumentalist known for playing music that comes from the 1920s and 30s. He just released his first album of his own compositions. It's called Things Done Changed. He brought a guitar, banjo and harmonica. Join us.
- [50:12]
Kelis
Here come bad news.
- [50:29]
Tanya Mosley
FRESH air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our technical director is Audrey Bentham. Our engineer is Adam Stanischevsky, with additional engineering support from Joyce Lieberman and Julian Hurston. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Anne Marie Baldonado, Sam Brigger, Lauren Krenzel, Teresa Madden, Monique Nazareth, Thea Chaloner, Susan Yakundi and Anna Bauman. Our digital media producers are Molly CV Nesper and Sabrina Seward with Terry Gross. I'm Tonya Moseley.
- [51:02]
Ron Rudsen
This message comes from NPR sponsor Merrill. Whatever your financial goals are, you want a straightforward path there. But the real world doesn't usually work that way. Merrill understands that. That's why with a dedicated Merrill advisor, you get a personalized plan and a clear path forward. Go to ML.combullish to learn more. Merrill, a Bank of America company. What would you like the power to do? Investing involves risk. Merrill Lynch, Pierce, Fenner and Smith Inc. Registered broker dealer Registered Investment Advisor Member SIPC this message comes from NPR sponsor Merrill Whatever your financial goals are, you want a straightforward path there. But the real world doesn't usually work that way. Merrill understands that. That's why with a dedicated Merrill advisor, you get a personalized plan and a clear path forward. Go to ML.combullish to learn more. Merrill, a Bank of America company. What would you like the power to do? Investing Involves risk Merrill Lynch, Pierce, Fenner and Smith, Inc. Registered broker Dealer Registered Investment Advisor Member SIPC.