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- [00:01]
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This message comes from Capital One. Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts. What's in your wallet terms apply. See capitalone.combank for details. Capital One NA Member FDIC this is fresh Air.
- [00:18]
Terry Gross
I'm Terry Gross. As part of Saturday Night Live's 50th anniversary celebration this year, tonight NBC will premiere a documentary highlighting the music guests and music comedy sketches that the show has featured over the decades. It's called ladies and gentlemen, 50 years of SNL music. It was co directed by my guest, Grammy winning musician and Oscar winning documentary filmmaker Amir Kweslove Thompson. He's the co founder, leader and drummer of the hip hop band the Roots. It's the house band for another late night show, the Tonight show with Jimmy Fallon. Before Questlove talks about the movie and how SNL has influenced him as a musician and late night bandleader, our TV critic David Biancooli is going to review the film along with a documentary series that's also part of the 50th anniversary celebration. That series is streaming on Peacock.
- [01:12]
David Bianculli
The two new Saturday night Live documentaries come from filmmakers who bring their own interests and perspectives. NBC's Ladies and Gentlemen, 50 Years of SNL Music comes from Amir Questlove Thompson, who's both a musician and a music historian. And the four part SNL 50 beyond Saturday night, now streaming on Peacock, comes from Morgan Neville, who's as interested in the creative process as he is in letting people tell their own stories. Questlove in his movie length study mines the archive of a half century of musical performances as well as the emergence of hip hop and other genres into the show and the culture. Some classic performances are run full length, others are sampled in cleverly compiled montages and mash ups. It's such a solid, well selected overview that I can think of only one SNL music performance I really wish had been included. Paul Simon, backed by Ladysmith Black Mambazo on their thrilling 1986 rendition of Diamonds on the Soles of Her Shoes. But Questlove covers a lot. Not only infamous appearances by Elvis Costello, Sinead O'Connor, Ashlee Simpson and Kanye, but even comedy sketches and videos built around music. The infamous D in a Box Christmas song with Justin Timberlake and SNL cast member Andy Samberg is deconstructed. So is another classic SNL musical moment featuring guest host Paul Rudd and musical guest Beyonce. Timberlake tells how that got on the air with Timberlake, Samberg and cast member Bobby Moynihan as her music video backup dancers. Partway through Timberlake's account, we hear the start of the actual single lady's sketch.
- [03:00]
Bobby Moynihan
Andy texted me and he said, hey, are you in town? I said, yeah, I'm in the city. He said, bobby Moynihan. He has this great idea for a sketch about you, me, and him being Beyonce's background dancers for single ladies that never made the cut. She's gonna be the musical guest this week. I was like, full, like, leotard. And he's like, yeah. And I was like, oh, this is too funny. Like, we have to do this. She was very polite about it, but she was very hesitant. And when I say hesitant, I mean, like, she was not having it.
- [03:29]
Beyonce
Beyonce, oh, my gosh. I'm so psyched to do this new video with you. Me too.
- [03:35]
Justin Timberlake
But, you know, there's this one thing. I haven't met the other dancers.
- [03:38]
David Bianculli
Are we gonna have time to rehearse?
- [03:40]
Beyonce
Oh, look, don't worry about the other dancers, B town. I hand picked them myself.
- [03:44]
Justin Timberlake
These guys are pros.
- [03:46]
Terry Gross
These guys.
- [03:47]
Bobby Moynihan
I'm like, does she know how funny this is gonna be? Like, how beloved this whole moment will be? So I said, bring me the leotard. So I put the leotard and the heels and the hose on and everything, and I put a robe on, and I walked and I knocked on her door. I walked in and I threw the robe down and I put my hands on my hips, and she was like, no, no, you didn't.
- [04:10]
David Bianculli
Morgan Neville's SNL documentary series is broken into four episodes, each one looking at a different aspect of the show and its history. The first one looks at the original audition tapes by many of the people who tried out for snl with those same people watching and reacting to their younger selves. Some scream, some cringe, some cry. Some, like Pete Davidson, laugh.
- [04:36]
Beyonce
I'm not good at sex, you know? Cause I wasn't raised in a brothel. I'm 20. Like, I don't. I'm not good at it. I don't understand why my girlfriend gets mad. She's like, that's it. I'm like, yeah. Like, what did you expect? Like, you know any good guitar players that have been playing guitar for a year?
- [04:54]
David Bianculli
Another episode spends a week observing how an installment of SNL is created by following the process from start to finish, mostly from the point of view of the writers. A third episode gets even more laser focused, spending an hour on a single sketch, and it's a brilliant choice coming from the midway point of the show's. 50 year run. It's the sketch recording session featuring guest star Christopher Walken and cast members Will Ferrell, Jimmy Fallon, Chris Parnell and others. You may know it better by the name most associated with it, more cowbell. It's a sketch Walken and Farrell elevated after the dress rehearsal by going all out in character. The sketch was set during the recording session for Blue Oyster cult's 1970s hit Don't Fear the Reaper. Farrell plays a very loud cowbell and Walken portrays the track's very enthusiastic music producer. Jimmy Fallon remembers Christopher Walken for air upped his game.
- [05:53]
Beyonce
He was almost doing an impersonation of Christopher Walken.
- [05:57]
Chris Parnell
He was talking like no other human being would talk ever. All right, here we go.
- [06:04]
Beyonce
Fear Don't Fear the Reaper. Take one.
- [06:06]
Chris Parnell
Roll. All right. One, two, three, four.
- [06:18]
David Bianculli
Once the sketch began on the live show, Farrell, who had written it, knew they had connected big time with the studio audience.
- [06:26]
Chris Parnell
Are you sure that was sounding okay?
- [06:28]
Lorne Michaels
I'll be honest, fellas, it was sounding great.
- [06:29]
Justin Timberlake
But I could have used a little more cowbell. As soon as he delivers that first line, I could use a little more cowbell.
- [06:40]
Beyonce
And that gets a huge.
- [06:41]
Justin Timberlake
I'm like, oh, they're in, they're in. Oh, goody.
- [06:44]
David Bianculli
There's more coming in this new recounting we do not hear from Christopher Walken himself, which Dana Carvey says is right in character for him. Carvey even slips into character as Walken to make his point.
- [06:58]
Beyonce
That keeps his cool factor here. Yeah, that he's not gonna. Not gonna go down memory lane. Let the work speak for itself.
- [07:08]
David Bianculli
The final episode of Neville's documentary series hones in on one seemingly random but ultimately seminal year, the 1985, 86 season. When executive producer Lorne Michaels, who had left the show after its first successful five year cycle with the original cast, was asked back by NBC executive Brandon Tartikoff. SNL was in free fall, and the common wisdom was that Lorne never would return to a sinking ship. But he did.
- [07:36]
Beyonce
When Brandon was trying to get me to come back in 1985.
- [07:40]
Justin Timberlake
Hello, I'm Brandon Tartikoff, president of NBC Entertainment.
- [07:45]
Beyonce
Someone said, you know, you've already done Saturday Night Live. Somebody who wants to be you does Saturday Night Live. And I thought, oh, right. Well, I kind of enjoyed being me.
- [07:57]
David Bianculli
It's one of the few times in either documentary we hear from Michaels. Clearly he prefers to let the cast and crew and the shows speak for themselves, and they do. Tina Fey and Amy Poehler, among others, tell some really great stories. There may not be enough screen time given to some SNL veterans in their stories, from Bill Murray to Kate McKinnon and Sarah Sherman, but there are an awful lot of laughs and memories and music and insights and just the right amount of cowbell.
- [08:29]
Terry Gross
David Biancooli is professor of television studies at Rowan University in New Jersey. The Morgan Neville documentary series SNL 50 is streaming on Peacock. The documentary, Ladies and Gentlemen, 50 Years of SNL Music will be broadcast tonight on NBC and will start streaming on Peacock tomorrow. It was co directed by my guest Amir Questlove Thompson. He's the co founder of the hip hop band the Roots, which is the house band for the Tonight show with Jimmy Fallon, who is a former SNL cast member. Questlove has become one of Fresh Air's most frequent guests because he does so many interesting books and movies. In addition to his work with his band on and beyond the Tonight Show, Questlove actually has two new documentary films. The second is about Sly and the Family Stone. It's called Sly Lives, AKA the Burden of Black Genius. It premiered over the weekend at the Sundance Film Festival and will start streaming on Hulu February 13th. We'll talk about that documentary in the next few weeks. His 2021 documentary Summer of Soul, about the 1969 Harlem Cultural Festival won an Oscar for best documentary. Amir, welcome back to FRESH air. It's a pleasure to have you back on.
- [09:47]
Beyonce
Thank you for having me.
- [09:48]
Terry Gross
Were the Roots ever on snl?
- [09:51]
Beyonce
You know, it's weird. I've been on SNL in every configuration except for the one that I want to be on, which is actual music guests. Like, I've been a punchline on Weekend Update. I've been part of a Timothee Chalamet sketch. I've been mentioning monologues. I've been in like a Lonely island sketch. But I guess one could say that my dream. One of the main reasons why I was excited to be on the tonight show, like 16 years ago when we first got offered the position, I was like, great. This puts me within like 1 degree of the brass ring, which is, you know, doing snl. So, you know, kind of funny how I'm a part of that ecosystem almost in every way. But the one way I want to be, which is like musical guests one day. But you know, the Roots are working on their 17th album right now. So, you know, I'm still hanging onto my dream.
- [10:50]
Terry Gross
Good. So do you think that the Saturday Night Live band, particularly in the Paul Shaffer era, though I don't know what era you Started watching, I assume it.
- [11:00]
Beyonce
Was Paul Schaefer, the very beginning. So my Saturday Night Live obsession really starts with, you know, the epicenter of my entire music world is Soul Train. And it just so happens that, you know, for most of America, especially with Soul Train in its prime, you know, everyone has a Saturday afternoon, 12pm cleaning the house, watching Soul Train Experience. But in Philadelphia, kind of weird. My Soul Train experience was always at one in the morning. And so I had parents that were very forward thinking, very cool. And of course, I'd have to be in bed at like, 8:30pm so whenever, like, the Love Boat theme starts, it's like, gotta go to bed. Not with that deep voice, but yeah, basically gotta go to bed. And the agreement was that be in bed at 8:30 and then at 12:30 midnight, we will wake you up. And by 12:30, Weekend Update is over for SNL. And then their music guest does two songs. And so I would go downstairs, turn on the tv, watch the two songs from snl, whoever the music guest was. And then Soul Train comes on at 1 in the morning. And then I'm in bed at 2am and up for church at 7:30 in the morning. That's pretty much like my Life from like 5 until maybe 11. Then Soul Train started coming on, like, in the afternoon. But I never stopped watching snl. So, you know, I was there from the very, very beginning. It was. It was nothing like it. I know that's the cliche that you're going to hear a lot about this 50th anniversary, but there was truly nothing like it on television.
- [12:50]
Terry Gross
One of the questions that you ask both cast members and people behind the scenes at SNL is, can you hum the SNL theme? So I want to play the attempts to hum the theme and then talk.
- [13:05]
Beyonce
To you about it. Yes. Okay.
- [13:26]
Terry Gross
I can't hum the theme either.
- [13:28]
Beyonce
Hey, no one can.
- [13:30]
Terry Gross
I immediately went to the actual theme. And before we hear it, I want to challenge our listeners to just pause and think for a second if they can hum the theme. Now let's play the theme. You know what I realized listening back, which I hadn't ever really thought of before?
- [14:06]
Beyonce
What?
- [14:06]
Terry Gross
There isn't a melody. I mean, it's like you're coming in in the middle of an improvisation.
- [14:11]
Beyonce
It's the most iconic, nondescript theme song. And kind of in my. That was my first realization back when I would pretty much any Saturday, that the Roots aren't touring and they're taping. I'm in the audience watching. And that to me, is one of the most humorous things ever. Like, wow. Like, you know it. You know it when you hear it. You know that's snl, but no one can. It's a feeling. It's almost like it's the last theme that offers a feeling but not any evidence of it. I don't know, it's like trying to put water in your pocket or something like that. Like, it's abundant, but it's not. It's whatever you want it to be.
- [14:57]
Terry Gross
Now, you wrote the theme for the Tonight show with Jimmy Fallon.
- [15:00]
Beyonce
Yes.
- [15:00]
Terry Gross
And it's almost as if to avoid people saying, I can't hum the theme, you and the band actually kind of Humscat the theme.
- [15:09]
Beyonce
Well, the weird thing was, it was by accident. You know, our very. That theme for the Tonight show, the infamous hey, hey, hey, hey song was literally we were making. We were kind of making fun of Santana's. So cool. And you know, it was like we were just sound checking. Like, we literally got. There was like our first day on the job, and they were like, all right, guys, play something. And we just started, you know, mocking a Santana song and just started singing a whole bunch of hey, hey, heys and then attempted to write about 19 themes, none of which Jimmy liked. And at the end of the thing, he heard the song we were mocking. It was like, that's the song. We're like, well, no, we're just messing around. Like, that's not a real song. He's like, yes, it is. And so that wound up being the song. It's ear candy. But I admire the fact that SNL for 50 years has been able to provide a feeling without necessarily melodic evidence to it.
- [16:17]
Terry Gross
Okay, let's hear a little bit of your theme for the Tonight Show. So, having gone through 50 years of musical guests, what's one of the performances that had a big impact on you when you were a kid and had to be in bed at 8:30, but you managed to watch Saturday Night Live.
- [16:53]
Beyonce
I will say that, you know, the first five years was pretty much, you know, SNL. The role of SNL was. That was our YouTube, that was our viral video. For me, that was the one place where I could watch at the time, I think my all time favorite artist was Bill Withers. You know, there really just wasn't a show in which you can see actual musicians playing. I mean, you could watch American Bandstand or Soul Train, where they might be lip syncing occasionally. On Soul Train, they play live, but, you know, back then it was slim pickings. Either Friday Night you watched Midnight Special. Sometimes rock concert would come on like Sunday nights. But basically SNL was just. It was a rare moment in which you got to catch a really cool band. So even like Devo coming on, like I was 8 years old when they did a the Jocko Homo song. Are we not men? We are Devo. And like me and my cousins, minds were blown, you know, so practically any group that came on in the first five to six years, I was an instant fan of.
- [18:04]
Terry Gross
One of the things that you highlight in the SNL documentary is the role of SNL in the world of hip hop. And tell the story of how Deborah Harry basically broke hip hop on snl.
- [18:17]
Beyonce
Okay, so Saturday Night Live is the first time that America and the world will get to see what hip hop culture is. The very first rap performance on TV is when Deborah Harry hosts the show in 1981 and brings on a Sugar Hill act called the Funky Four plus one more. And she took a liking to this group even though there were other popular groups at the time, like there was Grandmaster Flash and the Furious 5 and the sugar Hill Gang, but both were like platinum hits and really music and culture changing songs at the time. But she took a liking to this group because it was similar to Blondie, a band that had a woman in the lead of it. And so she took a liking to them. And for me, that's such an SNL move, where those first 10 years, they weren't about, well, who's the most popular person to bring ratings in. It was always like the cool factor. Like, okay, who's the most popular person now? Who's the person under that person that we could give a boost to. And that's like a prime example of how cool, how SNL always had their finger in the pulse of, you know, who's next? And you know, as a result, come 20 years later, a lot of those first time acts, you know, your early hip hop groups, like, you know, them getting Run DMC before Run DMC was Run dmc or them getting Prince before Prince was Prince or the Talking Heads or Diva, whoever, Like a lot of those risks that they took in the first 10 to 15 years, those guys will wind up being like the household names and the fiber of the mainstream once SNL becomes the mainstream instead of the underground. But yeah, with Deborah Harry using her power to bring attention to a culture that no one knew about, like that is a prime moment of the SNL effect and how it builds American entertainment culture.
- [20:27]
Terry Gross
My guest is Amir Kweslove Thompson. His film ladies and gentlemen, 50 years of SNL Music premieres tonight on NBC and starts streaming on Peacock tomorrow. We'll be right back after a short break. I'm Terry Gross and this is FRESH air.
- [20:43]
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- [20:59]
Molly Sivi Nesburg
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- [21:42]
Bobby Moynihan
Hi, this is Molly Sivi Nesburg, digital producer at FRESH air.
- [21:46]
Terry Gross
And this is Terry Gross, host of the show.
- [21:48]
Bobby Moynihan
One of the things I do is.
- [21:49]
Terry Gross
Write the weekly newsletter and I'm a newsletter fan. I read it every Saturday after breakfast. The newsletter includes all the week shows, staff recommendations and Molly picks, timely highlights from the archive. It's a fun read.
- [22:02]
Bobby Moynihan
It's also the only place where we tell you what's coming up next week, an exclusive.
- [22:06]
Terry Gross
So subscribe@whyy.org fresh air and look for an email from Molly every Saturday morning. Some of my favorite parts of the movie are the stories about things that have gone wrong, followed by clips of showing what went wrong and how it really shocked everybody behind the scenes. And one of those stories is Elvis Costello. So you know, he does one song during dress rehearsal that I guess he and Lorne Michaels had agreed on, right? And then he stops it after a few bars. Let's hear what happens.
- [22:44]
Lorne Michaels
Here's Elvis Costello in the dress rehearsal. We did a song that was on my first album, but I thought it sounded a little too slow. It was a medium tempo song and I didn't think it was exciting enough. And I realized this show is live. We can do anything with want. I'm sorry, ladies and gentlemen, there's no reason to do this song here.
- [23:15]
Terry Gross
When he stopped, the hubub in the studio was like, oh my God, oh my God, what's going to happen you can Hear it.
- [23:22]
Lorne Michaels
Radio, radio 1 2.
- [23:28]
Chris Parnell
With the Elvis thing. I was sitting with Dan Aykroyd on home base.
- [23:33]
Beyonce
You're just watching him. I went, oh, I think we're being hijacked.
- [23:36]
Chris Parnell
I watch tuning in the shining, the light not dial.
- [23:39]
Beyonce
Doing anything by radio Advice whenever one of those late night stations playing songs. Bring the taste of my eyes.
- [23:48]
Lorne Michaels
All of this stuff, it builds up in legend, in the retelling. But I didn't come out there to give a political lecture.
- [23:54]
Beyonce
You know?
- [23:54]
Lorne Michaels
Know, I came out to kind of shake it up. As we finished the song, the initial reaction in the moment was, I think we better get out of here. Somewhere in it, somebody said in anger, you'll never work on American television again. But the idea I was banned from television is nonsense.
- [24:30]
Terry Gross
That's such a great story. I love it. And I think you made a good choice. I love both songs, but I do think you made the right choice.
- [24:35]
Beyonce
He made the absolute right choice. And, you know, that's the thing about SNL is there's a risk factor involved. And usually it starts with no. Like, Eddie Murphy talks about, I did not want to do Hot Tub with James Brown. Justin Timberlake goes on and on about trying to convince Beyonce to do the Single lady sketch. Like, everything starts at no. And it's like, wow, you almost talked yourself out of history. And I'm trying to get people in the mind state that oftentimes we get in our own heads about why something won't work. And sometimes you just gotta take a risk. And you never know, this might be part of the American fiber, the history of it. But also, I know people have so many questions about what happens on a live show if something goes wrong. Like, for me, one of my favorite clips is the Ashlee Simpson moment where you hear the directors freaking out because they don't know what to do. Should I go to a commercial? What do I do now?
- [25:34]
Terry Gross
Just describe what happened.
- [25:36]
Beyonce
Well, you know, Ashlee Simpson had a sore throat and was a little iffy about her singing, so she opted to lip sing instead. And her drummer, who's controlling all the music, accidentally plays the wrong song for the second song.
- [25:53]
Terry Gross
He in fact plays the song that we already heard as the first song.
- [25:56]
Beyonce
Right, exactly.
- [25:57]
Terry Gross
Everyone in the audience knows this is wrong, and there's no way of covering that up.
- [26:01]
Beyonce
Well, yeah, I mean, they could have just patiently just stopped the song and started all over again as if nothing happened. But, you know, she infamously does a weird dance and runs off stage, kind of humiliated. And they go to a commercial. It just so happens that Oz Rodriguez, my co director of this documentary, said that, you know, they also have the audio recording of the production room, like what was happening at the time. And for me, it was so hilarious to hear the producers and the directors inside of the control room. It sounds to me it sounds like a bunch of teenagers that stole their parents car in San Francisco. And then the car is like the brakes just give out in a San Francisco hill going down 100 miles per hour. Like what do we do? Oh no. Oh no. You know, so I love showing like not how the sausage is made, but you know, you get to see what's under the trunk. And that to me is the most fascinating part of snl. Like how, how it's able to happen every week without fail.
- [27:08]
Terry Gross
Let's hear some of what happened behind the scenes. Uhoh.
- [27:11]
Beyonce
On a Monday splayin.
- [27:24]
Chris Parnell
And it was just like, you know those old movies of two locomotives hitting.
- [27:28]
Beyonce
Each other full bore. What are we doing? I don't know. She should sing. People were running in and out of the studio and it just seemed like the show came to a screeching halt.
- [27:42]
Terry Gross
And the rumors were after that. I think there were two rumors after that if I remember correctly. One was that, oh, she really can't sing. So not because of a sore throat, but because she's not capable of singing live and therefore they had to have her lip sync. And the other rumor was, oh, there's probably lots of acts that are really lip syncing.
- [28:01]
Beyonce
Well, you know, the thing is, you know, we went through this like 10 years before with Milli Vanilli. You know, the kind of. This is what I call, this is what I call the post thriller effect of 1982, where suddenly your music video became the most important way to sell the song. And you know, it came to the point where if you're in concert, fans expect whatever you did on your video, you would have to surpass it. And you know, because Michael Jackson's introducing this whole idea of like, not only do you have to sing the song, but you have to sell the song, dance the song, act the song. For most people it's hard to. It's hard enough just to sing it, but also to sing and perform or dance or whatever you have to do. Since the 80s there have been options on how to sell the song without you giving up your voice or whatever. And so I mean, kind of the lip singing aspect has been a thing since the early 80s, but for me as a musician, that's just a fact. Of life. But for a lot of people, there's a smoke and mirror aspect to it. And I guess with that Ashlee Simpson performance, most of America found out that half their favorites kind of do that. Like, it's just the standard, really. I don't want to pop any more balloons than I have to, but it's just, again, like, from the artists that I talk to, it's like they might get in their heads that, you know, if I move too much and I'm out of breath, then I won't be able to hit the notes like I normally do. You know, I think people, again, the Thriller effect is. It must be perfect. And I'm kind of from the school of warts and all. Like, I love seeing the warts. I love seeing the pimples, the mistakes. Like, to me, that's the human touch. And I think people need to trust that more. You know, things don't have to be Instagram filter perfect 24 7.
- [30:09]
Terry Gross
So I assume that what they're lip syncing to is a live performance. That's not the record.
- [30:16]
Beyonce
There's some people. You know what, there's a few artists that are smart enough that will maybe do eight specific takes of a particular performance so that you're under the impression that they are, you know, what's up, Detroit? How y'all doing? You know, like, they'll go that far. Like, I know artists that will do like, 10 or 20 versions of a song to sort of customize or not get caught out there. But I think just in the name of presenting a perfect package, that's what people go through.
- [30:49]
Terry Gross
You're talking about in concert right now, right?
- [30:51]
Beyonce
Yeah, in concert or most, you know, I'm on television. I'll say that 90% of, you know, it's very rare for a person to just go 100% live. Like, I'll say that on the Tonight Show, 85 to 90% of what you see is a perfected delivery. Like, in their minds, it's like, I must sell this song to sell my album. And so they don't want to leave risk or to chance any, you know, any flub that would make you say, nope, that note was flat. So I'm not supporting that group. So, yeah, that's kind of where we are now in entertainment.
- [31:31]
Terry Gross
Well, you solve one mystery for me, which is how do singers manage to sing when they're doing this elaborate workout with their choreography when you're gonna be out of breath.
- [31:42]
Beyonce
Exactly. So pretty much it's just partho chorus. Like, it's always been that way. But when I go to snl, yeah, I'm entertained by what I see. But I'm not sitting in the audience just to watch Saturday Night Live. Like, for me, the best part of the show is what happens in the commercials, like watching the teamster guys and the crew guys like at furious pace in two minutes, like build an entire set while you know, they're quick, the artists are quick changing in the back and will they make it in two minutes flat? And to me, that's the best part of the show, like watching the choreography of a well oiled machine.
- [32:25]
Terry Gross
My guest is Questlove. His film, ladies and gentlemen, 50 years of SNL Music premieres tonight on NBC and starts streaming on Peacock tomorrow. We'll be right back after a short break. This is FRESH AIR.
- [32:39]
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- [33:09]
David Bianculli
Wait, wait, don't tell me. Fresh air up first, NPR News. Now Planet Money Ted Radio Hour throughline the NPR Politics podcast Code Switch Embedded books we love Wild Card are just some of the podcasts you can enjoy, sponsor free with NPR. Get all sorts of perks across more than 20 podcasts with the bundle option. Learn more at plus.NPR.org so, you know.
- [33:35]
Terry Gross
We were talking a little bit about how you ended up being the bandleader of the Tonight show with Jimmy Fallon. Did Paul Schaeffer or any subsequent band leaders influence your, like, how you wanted to be both as an individual and as a band on the Tonight Show?
- [33:57]
Beyonce
Absolutely. So even though Paul Schaefer was the first generation SNL late night band, when Paul went to the David Letterman show, which, you know, I will say that the David Letterman talk show, especially in its first 10 years, it was such a kind of 80s counterculture moment. My parents always felt that those guys were hip even though they were like totally nerdy. They kind of liked the irony hip, the nerdy hip of Paul and David Letterman. And so as a kid I just, you know, Paul was just like the coolest guy ever. And so, you know, I mean, at the time I didn't realize as a 10 year old that, you know, someone were to come to me and say you know, young man, in 35 years, that will be you on television. Like, you know, like my version of, you know, A Christmas Story, you know, like my Jacob Marley. But to me, when I was offered the late night thing, when you're doing the pros and the cons of it all, yeah, in my head I was like, wow, you know, this is. This is my chance to be the Paul Shaffer. But Paul's very unique. I'm definitely not the Paul Schaefer of the Tonight Show. Like, you know, Paul and David almost have this run DMC esque, finish each other sentence kind of camaraderie going on. I'm not there with Jimmy yet, but, you know, I've made my mark still.
- [35:46]
Terry Gross
So several of the people who have been music guests on Saturday Night Live talk about how nervous they were the first time around or the only time around. And one of them is Dave Grohl, who talks about how his first appearance with Nirvana, he was so nervous, he played so hard. He said, when I get nervous, I play really hard. That he broke like a drumstick within 20 seconds and a little while later broke through the skin of one of his drums. But I wonder if that's something you have to deal with on the Tonight Show. Do you ever have to calm down guest artists who either get nervous in front of an audience in general or just get nervous because they're not really used to, you know, national TV all the time.
- [36:25]
Beyonce
I can tell what type of artists we're dealing with based on how late the camera blocking the rehearsal, the day of is. And kind of a way that artists handle that control issue is usually with time. Oftentimes we'll get an artist that will drag their feet. You know, it's now 10 minutes late, it's now 15 minutes late. And, you know, artists don't understand, like blue collar and white collar office politics. Like, hey, we're a union group and we have to take an hour break at this specific time. And, you know, things that they don't generally get. You know, artists are sometimes in their own ecosystem, their own world, their own bubble where they're not thinking like, oh, am I going over union time? Like, we might have to do lunch and a half or, you know, like things that only office people understand. And I learned long ago, like, this is why I'm really big on micro meditation and, you know, just sitting in a quiet room for like 10 minutes before I go on. Because sometimes you have to just calm yourself down so that you can really focus on what you have to do. But a lot of times, artists are in their own heads, and they often talk themselves out of, you know, the magic. Because when you're worrying, you're almost praying for something bad to happen. Like, that's my definition of worrying. Like, oh, I hope I don't mess up. You're basically saying, hey, I would like to mess up just subconsciously. So as a result, most artists will stall, take their time, be an hour late, be two hours late, not show up at all, hijack their career in the name of fear. And as always, like, once you do it, then it's like, oh, that's all it was, no big deal. But, you know, I'm used to it because I've been doing this for a couple decades. But oftentimes I'll pull an artist to the side and just be like, okay, I want you to listen to my voice. I want you to inhale, exhale. I do that a lot to them, especially the new artists that are, like, nervous and scared.
- [38:45]
Terry Gross
You can't say, don't worry about it. It's no big deal. It's just national tv.
- [38:50]
Beyonce
Nah. See people in their heads and it's a tightrope walk. And I get it. It's easy to think, what if I fail? What if this doesn't work? What if no one likes me? But there's another side of that coin, which is like, what if this works out? What if everyone loves me again? Leading to the slide doc. One of the biggest themes is there's a fear of failure, but the bigger fear is actually the fear of success. What if it does work?
- [39:23]
Terry Gross
Amir, it's been so great to talk with you. Thank you for being such a regular guest on our show. It's really. It's a joy. Thank you, Amira. Kweslev Thompson's new film, ladies and gentlemen, 50 Years of SNL Music, is part of SNL's 50th anniversary celebration. It premieres on NBC tonight and starts streaming on Peacock tomorrow. There's a part two of that interview in which we talk about another new Questlove documentary about Sly Stone and his band, Sly and the Family Stone. It's called Sly Lives, AKA the Burden of Black Genius. It just premiered at the Sundance Film Festival and will start streaming on Hulu February 13th. We'll feature that interview sometime in the next few weeks. After we take a short break, Ken Tucker will review Ringo Starr's new album. This is Fresh air. Ringo Starr has released a new album of country songs called Look Up. It's a collaboration with producer T Bone Burnett, who wrote many of the songs, and it features appearances by Alison Krauss and a new young bluegrass star, Billy Strings. Ringo recently taped a country special that will air on CBS in the spring, and in February he'll make his debut at Nashville's Grand Ole Opry. Not bad for an 84 year old. Ex Beatle rock critic Ken Tucker has a review of Look Up.
- [40:56]
Chris Parnell
It's a long way down and there's no bottom. You had the blues but you forgot. And look up. In the midnight hour. Look up. Love is the higher power. Keep your eyes on the skies, don't look. Look down on the shadow town. Look up.
- [41:23]
Justin Timberlake
Beatle fans have known of Ringo Starr's love of country music ever since he had the Fab Four cover the Buck Owens hit act naturally in 1965. Singing a rare lead vocal, look up isn't even Ringo's first country album. That was way back in 1970. It was called Beaucoup of Blues and was more self conscious and lugubrious than the new one, which radiates the confidence and ease that an aging professional can bring to his material.
- [41:51]
Chris Parnell
Every time I think about you. I never want to live without you. And every time you come around, I'm spellbound. I'm spellbound. When I see you on the blue part. My spirit flies and my heart beats. Heart with a love that's deathless and I'm breathless.
- [42:24]
Justin Timberlake
While producer T Bone Burnett has written most of the music here, he and Ringo have selected some clever new songs, including a couple by an old pro, Billy Swan. Swan will forever be known for one beautiful number one hit, I Can Help, from 1974. Swan's always charming songwriting yields this lovely interlude called you'd want some.
- [42:48]
Chris Parnell
Well, I got love to give. Baby, that's a better than none. You want some, you want song. But deep down in my heart is where it all comes from. You want some? Oh, baby, you want some.
- [43:21]
Justin Timberlake
What makes Ringo such an effective country vocalist? Well, the rhythmic sense that made him a great rock drummer guides the way he phrases, giving a country lyric the air necessary to breathe life into the story it's telling. Freed from the demands of rock and roll volume. When singing with the Beatles, Ringo's crooning possesses the kind of relaxed authority that usually only a genius like Willie Nelson or Ray Charles can make sound so easy.
- [43:56]
Chris Parnell
I used to have a true love. Everything was fine. But now she's found a new love. She's no longer mine. I thought it was forever but she had all the plans. Now these arms are empty And I've got time on my hands. I turned my collar up, kept my eyes turned down I walk the empty streets, the blue side of town when she was my baby I was a busy man but she slipped through my fingers and I've got time on my hands.
- [45:08]
Justin Timberlake
Ringo spent a good chunk of his post Beatle career fronting a series of what he calls his all star bands with a rotating cast of rock stars. The 11 songs on look up feature less glitzy but no less strong support from Nashville vets like bassist Dennis Crouch, pedal steel player Paul Franklin, and younger budding stars like guitarist singer Molly Tuttle and bluegrass guitar phenomenon Billy Strings. Strings most recent album released late last year, highway Prayers, has brought him a larger audience than bluegrass usually attracts. The biggest guest star on this album is Alison Krauss, with whom Ringo hits an emotional peak on this collection called Thankful.
- [45:52]
Chris Parnell
I needed a friend to help me along I needed somebody here to help me sing my song. Now I have good days I'm changing my ways and it's a beautiful day here in California and when you came along my shelter from the storm I put my life into your hands and you made me a better man. And now I'm thankful for the love you show your love for me I've never known Thankful for the stars above Hoping for more peace and love.
- [47:02]
Justin Timberlake
The gratitude that Ringo expresses on Thankful is what has made him such a beloved figure. He always came across as the most modest Beatle, grateful he'd lucked into being a member of the most influential rock band in history. But his underrated talent, his quietly persistent hard work over the years, it's all contributed to the strength of this collection in which Ringo Starr emphasizes the value of of simple, straightforward sincerity.
- [47:30]
Terry Gross
Ken tucker reviewed Ringo Starr's new country album called Look Up Tomorrow on FRESH AIR. Our guest will be Harvard professor and MacArthur fellow Imani Perry. Her new book is called Black and How a Color Tells the Story of My People. Perry's last book, south to America, won the National Book Award for nonfiction in 2022. I hope you'll join us. Our co host is Tanya Mosley. I'm Terry Gross.
- [48:00]
Molly Sivi Nesburg
This message comes from NPR sponsor Saatva. Founder and CEO Ron Rudson shares the story of how he got started Creating.
- [48:08]
Beyonce
Saatva in 20072008 I went out and I bought the most popular luxury mattresses.
- [48:15]
Justin Timberlake
I tore them apart and I realized.
- [48:18]
Beyonce
Based on the raw materials, cost and.
- [48:20]
Justin Timberlake
The analysis that I had done that.
- [48:21]
Beyonce
I was able to sell that level.
- [48:23]
Justin Timberlake
MATT but with a very affordable price.
- [48:27]
Molly Sivi Nesburg
To learn more, go to saatva.com NPR.