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- [00:00]
Capella University
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- [00:16]
Dave Davies
This is FRESH air. I'm Dave Davies. Season two of the comedy series Mo is now available on Netflix. It's based on the life of Mo Amer, a comedian of Palestinian descent who grew up in Kuwait and Houston and is fluent in Arabic, Spanish and English. As the first season ended, Mo was trying to stop the theft of his family's olive trees from a Texas farm when he ended up trapped in the thieves truck and transported to Mexico. As season two opens, he's stuck in Mexico City because he's undocumented. He sells falafel tacos from a vending cart and and plays in a mariachi band to get by. But he's desperate to get back to Houston, where his long awaited asylum hearing is fast approaching. Here he's talking to a clerk at the American Embassy in Mexico where he's been seeking a travel document to get into the United States.
- [01:08]
Mo Amer
You know me, this is like the 12th time I've seen you. I've seen your colleague like six times. Yeah, this is like the 13th time. I have to ask you, where's your passport? I don't have a passport. Exactly. The next. No, no next. The Spedman.
- [01:19]
Mariah
Wait, wait.
- [01:20]
Mo Amer
Okay, look, I got an asylum hearing coming up in Houston that I've been waiting for for 22 years. And if I get that asylum granted, I can eventually get a passport. Please, God. I've been begging for the last six months after I was kidnapped and brought to Mexico against my will, and no one's willing to help me. Mariah, you were kidnapped by the Olive Tree Cartel. It was right, but don't do that. My lawyer said if I can get a laissez passe, I can legally cross the border. Maybe just come to terms with the fact you're Mexican now. Okay, Feliz Cumblianos. I tell you what, if you give me a lazy pesang, I'll donate your vacation fund. You want to go tubing in San Marcos? Cause I can't afford more than San Marcos. You want to bribe me? Who said bribe? Nobody said bribe. I didn't say bribe. I did not. Put your hand down. I didn't say bribe. I said donation. Politicians take donations all the time. Then I'm going to need you to politely.
- [02:15]
Dave Davies
Mo, short for Mohammed, has made a name for himself in comedy starring in stand up specials, touring in the US and other countries, and co starring in the Hulu series Rami. In his Netflix series Mo, he's close to his mother and autistic brother, his Mexican American girlfriend and a kaleidoscope of ethnically diverse friends. Season two eventually takes him to his ancestral home in the west bank where where the Israeli Palestinian conflict is integral to the story. A review in the Guardian says season two of MO brings together food, identity, immigration, family and Middle Eastern politics in a way that's as fresh and intriguing as the falafel tacos that become central to the plot. Today we're going to listen to my 2022 interview with Mo Amer when the first season of Mo aired. Mo Ammer, welcome to FRESH AIR.
- [03:07]
Mo Amer
Thank you for having me.
- [03:09]
Dave Davies
I gotta tell you, I struggled a little bit when I was writing your introduction because I feel like if I describe you as Palestinian, that doesn't quite capture the Mo Amor I see in your stuff. You kind of have more than one identity, don't you?
- [03:24]
Mo Amer
That's really interesting you say that. I mean, I definitely identify as Palestinian American, but it's one of those things that as a refugee, silent America, someone is trying to fit in and feel like have some kind of sense of belonging. You kind of become a chameleon and you really start putting yourself in other people's shoes almost immediately to be more relatable and understood. It's very interesting how that works, that naturally and organically it just comes together that way. But yeah, I definitely identify as a Texan Palestinian. I know this feels like a juxtaposition in kind of like two worlds that should be colliding. But I feel very much at home with those two worlds.
- [04:06]
Dave Davies
Right. And when people first met you, I mean, given your skin color, they probably assumed you were Mexican American. And I can tell from the series that you speak obviously Arabic. You speak Spanish pretty fluently to me and at least a couple of three dialects of English too, right?
- [04:24]
Mo Amer
Absolutely, absolutely. I can pretty much cover all the dialects in English. I am conversational, completely conversational in Spanish. My grammar is not perfect sometimes. But yeah, I don't have any problems at all having a full on conversation in Spanish and fluent in Arabic.
- [04:40]
Dave Davies
All right. Well, I wanted to listen to a scene from the series M.O. which which as we said, premieres on Netflix tomorrow. And this will give us a little bit of sense of some of your linguistic ability to fit in. The series is about you, a character which named Mo, kind of pretty much you in your 20s, I guess single, living in Houston, dating a Mexican American woman, which of course your Palestinian mom sort of disapproves of. This is a scene where you've just lost a job you had in an electronic shop because the owner was concerned about an immigration raid and you didn't have your papers. So you've returned to an old side hustle of selling knockoff merchandise out of the trunk of your car. And this scene happens in. You've got your big car backed up to the edge of a strip mall, which you see plenty of in Houston. And there's this heavyset guy in a white guy in a cowboy hat walking down the sidewalk. And you engage him and say, hey, looks like you got orthopedic shoes there. Does that hurt your back? And try and sell them a pair of shoes from the trunk. And there are these. They're imitations of these odd looking shoes marketed by Kanye West. Kind of in part made from the.
- [05:46]
Mo Amer
Foam Easy Foam runners. And I swear by them. Okay, the Easy Foam runners. And they are. I like literally mean everything I say in the clip.
- [05:57]
Dave Davies
Well, here, you open this and then you pull out a little stool. You got a little portable store there. So it begins with you engaging this fella. Let's listen.
- [06:05]
Mo Amer
How you doing, brother? Beautiful weather, huh? Yeah, it is. Yeah, we lucky. What do you got? Orthopedics.
- [06:11]
Mariah
Yes, sir.
- [06:11]
Mo Amer
Slow down. Slow orange self. What are they, nine and a half? Got it again. Yeah, they're my old trustees. I bet they're doing a number on your lower back. God, my lower back is killing me. Same here. Till I switched over to Yeezys, then my back pain disappeared. Thank you. Yeezy's is what I say. Come on, let me show you something. Oh, no, I Holy. You got a whole store in there. That's right, baby. I'm an entrepreneur. Look at this. Good for you. Thank you. Designer, yet orthopedic. That don't look like anything I put on my feet. They look like alien shoes. Well, they are from whatever planet Kanye's from. But don't judge them till you try them on, brother. Come on. Come on in for a moon landing and take 30 seconds of your time. Here we go. You gotta look after your lower back. Yeah, that I do. Here you go. Come on, give em a try.
- [06:59]
Dave Davies
All right.
- [07:00]
Mo Amer
These are genuine recycled algae. Whoa. Yeah. Oh, my goodness.
- [07:07]
Dave Davies
Look at.
- [07:08]
Mo Amer
Son, these shoes are golden. How much? Aftermarket, these go for about $350,000. Now, I'm willing to give them to you for $200. So I can't tell my wife. I paid $200 for a pair of algae shoes. Brother, I smell what you're stepping in. Okay, so I'm gonna sweeten the pot now for $300. I know. Whoa, hold on a second. Hear me out. Throwing the Chanel purse. All right, now, this will retail well over $1,000. You ain't gonna find a better replica than this. She won't know the difference.
- [07:42]
Dave Davies
And that is Mo Amer making a sale in the series Mo, which premieres on Netflix tomorrow. You know, we hear you speaking kind of the Texan version of English, which I will say, I grew up in South Texas. I recognize that accent. You use that to connect to people, I guess, lots of times growing up, didn't you?
- [08:01]
Mo Amer
Yeah, I think it's one of those things that I actually just connect with in general. I mean, the Palestinian culture is a folksy farmer kind of mentality in life. And when I came to Texas, that's one of the things that was really attractive to me was the country music, the folksy music, the storytelling tradition of that. And I really just attach myself to it because it's in my blood and, you know, in the character in the scene itself, it's meant to be that I'm, you know, endearing to him and develop trust.
- [08:32]
Dave Davies
So you did sell knockoff stuff on the street. This is a real thing?
- [08:36]
Mo Amer
No comment. Yeah, no, I did. I absolutely did. I was a teenager. It's just something that I just fell into, honestly. I was wearing knockoff Versace sunglasses that I thought were cool, and someone was just like, hey, those are really nice. You know, you selling those. I'm like, yeah, it's my last one. And it just became my shtick where somebody would walk in, I see someone that might be interested in what I have, I'd put it on, I'd wear it, they'd comment on it, and then I would sell it. That's how it worked.
- [09:06]
Dave Davies
Imagine you developed some kind of skills for reading people and communicating. That probably helped in stand up when you got to that.
- [09:13]
Mo Amer
No, absolutely. Assessment of situations, of people is crucial to be not only a great salesman, but a great stand up comedian. So it did help a lot. And it's one of those things that when you experience such hardships, you become really good at figuring out what's good and bad and following your gut more so following your gut. Right. Like, you know, this could be a good thing. Once you tap into that and you realize that you have a high percentage of hit rate where you're right, you start to trust it way more.
- [09:44]
Dave Davies
And when it's time to close things up and split too, I imagine.
- [09:46]
Mo Amer
Exactly, exactly.
- [09:49]
Dave Davies
You know, we mentioned earlier that your family left Kuwait and ended up in Houston. Tell us a bit more about that. Your family was in Kuwait, had a comfortable life, and then the first Gulf War happened, which was Saddam Hussein invading Kuwait. How much do you remember of that departure?
- [10:10]
Mo Amer
I remember all of it, Every bit of it. That's why I recreated it in the flashbacks as much as possible, whenever Budget allowed us to do. I think it's one of those things that is not really. That's glossed over. It's such an important topic. The Gulf War that really sparked everything. Even to this day, we're still dealing with those with that war. This, like this domino effect of political relations throughout the Mina region, you know, Middle East, North Africa. And I really believe that that was one of the biggest turning points in that area. I mean, if you think about it, there wasn't any American military presence there pre Gulf War. And since then, we've never left and we've been present in that area ever since. And there's so many people that were affected by that. You know, particularly a lot of Palestinians were affected by it had to flee from there. It was like, now it's that they're, you know, think about my mom and my dad's perspective. This is their third, second or third time they have to flee because of being stateless and, you know, to have to create a new life again. So this is something that was really important to me to show this, like, generational trauma, essentially, that you're starting now to see it starting over in Houston, Texas.
- [11:23]
Dave Davies
They had fled Haifa before when the. When the 47 war happened.
- [11:27]
Mo Amer
Right. So there was 47. So once Israel became a state and the United nations was formed, if you were in. Some people were able to. Some Palestinians were able to stay in the Israeli, quote, unquote territory. So those people are called Israeli Arabs and they're Palestinians, but they're referred to as Israeli Arabs. And we had to. Yeah, my family historically left Haifa and ended up in Burin, which is right outside of Nablus, one of the biggest cities, I think, in the entire area.
- [11:58]
Dave Davies
Why did your family end up in Kuwait?
- [12:01]
Mo Amer
Well, it was before I was born, so I'll just tell you what I know. I know my father was offered a job at the Kuwait Oil Company as a telecommunications engineer. And that's why my family relocated to Kuwait. And so we settled there for a long time. My father was actually instrumental in building wireless Communication between oil rigs and was one of the first people to build a radio station in Kuwait. He and his team. So we were there for years before that, and they would visit regularly before everything blew up in Palestine and Intifada and created the situations became more and more and more tense, and it became more and more difficult to go back and visit.
- [12:48]
Dave Davies
So tell us what happened in Kuwait. I mean, you were there. Your dad was working in telecommunications, making a good living. You had a pretty comfortable life. What happened that forced you to leave? I mean, I know Iraq invaded, but how did your family experience that?
- [13:01]
Mo Amer
Sure. I mean, I was a little kid. I was nine years old when that happened. So I was. You know, this was my first time seeing my parents worried about anything. Right. Like something as dramatic as this. And I knew it was really, really serious. The conditions became, like, not really livable because of what Saddam Hussein was doing. He released a bunch of prisoners at that time and instructed them to rob the entire area. And everything just became so incredibly unsafe when it was one of the safest places to be in the world. You know, it became so unpredictable, and it was really scary time and turbulent time. So it was at that Mom. My father and my mother both made a decision together that we should leave and head to America. And that's why we ended up in Houston, Texas. But that is, like, not something that you just pick up and leave overnight. You have to. At that time, we had to leave on a bus. And I remember this clear as day. That's why I put it in the flashback in the series is us fleeing on a bus and leaving with whatever we had and my mom having to hide it, hide the money strategically so it doesn't get taken from us through Iraq to Amman, Jordan. Finally, we got our paperwork to leave. My sister and I actually left and ended up in Houston, Texas. My mom actually went back solo. Is how much of a gangster, an incredible woman she is. She went back to Kuwait to finish everything up with my father and my brother. And it was a really delicate and difficult situation. Also, politically, it was really different. Right. Because at that time, you know, Yasser Arafat gave his blessings or support to Saddam Hussein. So it became a really difficult time for Palestinians, even though it had nothing to do with us. You know, it was a political thing. And that's what normally happens, right, where politicians make decisions that affect the people that have nothing to do with anything. So we had to leave at that time. We had no other choice.
- [14:57]
Dave Davies
So you were describing how your family left Kuwait after the invasion by Iraq in the first Gulf War in 1991. You and your mom and your siblings eventually made it to Houston. Your dad wasn't there for quite a while. He got there a couple of years later and you, you got into school and as we heard in that clip, it was a weird beginning. You were used to wearing a bow tie to school and speaking with an English accent, and everybody assumed you were Mexican American. And you managed, you made your way. And then your father died. You were 14, is that right? What was the effect of that on you?
- [15:38]
Mo Amer
It was incredibly potent. I didn't know. You know, so many things changed from 9 to 13, from my age. You know, it's like so many things were already changing so dramatically, and to lose my father was a devastating blow. You know, you have all the things going through your head. I didn't have enough time. What did I do? What did I say to him? You have regret. You go through all the motions of that. I was completely lost, to be honest. I started skipping school, stopped being interested in it at all in high school. I didn't want to participate in anything and it was really hard to focus. And I just had it in my head I was going to be a stand up comedian anyway. Why do I need this? Just forget it's a joke anyway. I just had zero interest in anything other than being a stand up comedian and entrepreneur. That's all I wanted. And then my teacher, Mrs. Reed and Mrs. Broderick in the English class changed my life and she woke me up to it. She was like, how would you feel if you don't graduate? How would your father feel if you don't graduate? And it pierced my heart. I'm like, it'd be devastating. I come from a highly educated family. This would be a really big black mark on us and myself, and I don't want that. She goes, don't you want to be a stand up comedian? I was like, yeah, absolutely I do. She goes, I tell you what, if you don't, if you stop skipping, I'll let you do stand up in class. I was like, what? Are you sure I can do stand up in class? She was like, yeah. She goes, all you have to do, just sprinkle in something. Because it was English class. If you could sprinkle in some Shakespeare or be creative and figure out a way how you can mix in the curriculum, I'll give you extra credit even, and I'll let you do stand up on Fridays. I was like, this sounds like a great deal. I was like, what's the Catch. He goes, you can't skip anymore. You skip once and it's over for you. I'm gonna give you. I'm gonna fail you. It's over.
- [17:27]
Dave Davies
Let's back up a second. You said that you knew you wanted to be a stand up comedian. How did you know that? What got you interested in comedy?
- [17:36]
Mo Amer
First of all, I'd never heard of stand up comedy. It's an indigenous art form to America. There's three. It's jazz, hip hop, and standup. So I didn't know anything about it. I went to the Houston Livestock show on Rodeo a few months after being in the States, kind of changed things up. My family took me just to kind of get my mind off of things and to try to do something fun. And I saw Bill Cosby performing live.
- [18:00]
Dave Davies
At the Houston Lifestock show and Rodeo. That's great.
- [18:04]
Mo Amer
Yeah, so it was him, co head. He was co headlining with the band Alabama. And I saw it and I just. In front of 65,000 plus people just telling these hilarious stories. And I looked at my brother, I was like, what is this? This is stand up comedy. I was like, oh, my God, that's what I'm supposed to be doing with my life. And my brother was like, okay, yeah, this kid's having a moment. He had no idea how profound of a moment it was for me and how like, it was just like, so real that this is exactly what I'm supposed to be doing.
- [18:38]
Dave Davies
How old were you when that happened?
- [18:39]
Mo Amer
I was nine.
- [18:41]
Dave Davies
Oh, wow. You were little. And how did you start doing it? Start cracking your friends up? Did you do it in front of a mirror? How did you develop stand up as a kid?
- [18:52]
Mo Amer
I was always really funny. I was always telling stories I never had. Like, that was just natural to me. And my mom would tell me, like, when I was. When I just started walking, I would walk in front of the television and turn off the TV and start doing gestures and making sounds. But that's how it worked out. And I did stand up in high school. Like I said, I was doing it in classes, and I would do impressions of Chris Farley and I would just like, roast kids in class as Chris Farley. And then when I graduated high school, I walked into the last stop, which is iconic comedy club, unfortunately is no longer open anymore in Houston. That I did shows. I did the Houston's Funniest Person competition. And that's where I learned about the world of stand up and what it takes, like in a comedy club, open mics and building a set and that's where I met my mentor, owner of the comedy showcase, Danny Martinez, who ended up teaching me everything I needed to know about stand up comedy, the art form, you know, getting my wings and how to become a proficient stand up comedian.
- [19:56]
Dave Davies
Well, you know, one thing I observed in the performances that I've seen of your is the way you use your voice like an instrument. You can quickly get loud and kind of come up in pitch in a way that totally works. Was that something that you always did or is it something that you worked on?
- [20:15]
Mo Amer
Oh, I learned that. Yeah, I learned that. It's so important. Yeah, I think comedians don't understand like you have an instrument there with your voice, man. It brings me so much joy that you recognize that. Yeah, it takes years to perfect something like that or to hone a skill like that. I think that sounds. And again, that's something that Danny taught me early on in my standup career is how understanding what mic technique is and where you put the mic and the inflection in your voice and when you use it where it's not something that I deliberately try to do, it's just a natural thing that happens while I'm telling a story that I'm highly conscious. So I just do it naturally in the moment.
- [20:55]
Dave Davies
Mo amer recorded in 2022. He stars in the Netflix series called Mo. After a long hiatus, season two is now streaming. He'll be back to talk more after this short break. And later, Justin Chang reviews Black Bag, the new spy thriller directed by Steven Soderbergh and starring Cate Blanchett and Michael Fassbender. This is FRESH air.
- [21:18]
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- [21:49]
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- [22:47]
Dave Davies
So you spent a lot of years traveling as a comedian before you got your citizenship. What was your immigration status and how did you travel?
- [22:58]
Mo Amer
Oh, my God. That Pre. Getting my U.S. citizenship. It feels like a dream. Like I don't even know how I did it. You had a refugee travel document that's issued. They still do the to this day. It's only valid for a year, which is so difficult. It has its own implications because some countries require at least six months validity right. To any passport or travel document. It takes four months to get. So you're just waiting forever for it. And then nobody knows what it is. Nobody has a clue what it is. People who should know what it is don't know what it is. Like the people working at the airlines when you first check in, no idea what it is. When you get to the immigration counter, 90 plus percent of the immigration officers from all around the world look at this as an alien landing. Like, what is this thing? You know? And they just freak out by it. How did you get here? Why are you here? The questions start to ensue and then they realize how terrible they were to me for hours and hours until they got confirmation that this is a real thing that you can actually, actually travel with. Which makes it even more confusing is that it says, this is not a passport. The moment you open it, right on the inside, it's big bold letters. It says, this is not a US Passport. So it's like, well, what is this thing?
- [24:22]
Dave Davies
And they would read that back to you, this is not a passport.
- [24:24]
Mo Amer
Yeah, I'm like, yeah, I know it's not a passport. Yeah, exactly. I know exactly. This is not a passport. But it's a refugee trial. And I would have to become really knowledgeable about what it is when it was issued, you know, what rights I have attached to it. It was just a mess, Just an absolute mess.
- [24:39]
Dave Davies
So Mo the salesman had to take over, right?
- [24:42]
Mo Amer
Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, in some cases I had to like mislead them to enter the country. In some cases I would have to just like completely mislead them or pretend like I don't know what they're talking about or just create some kind of situation or attempt to big time it. Like, you know, just, you have to, like, I had to assess the situation, and each one was very different than the other. And then I would assess the person and the immigration officer, and then I had to, you know, come up with a quick plan in that moment to get in.
- [25:13]
Dave Davies
How would you big time it with a skeptical border agent or airline employee?
- [25:18]
Mo Amer
You have to be super confident, you know, and so you have to exude this confidence and tell them exactly what they're doing. And once you tell them you're a comedian, if they understood what stand up comedy was, it made things lighter, naturally. But then you just have to be like, super direct, and then you guilt them. Like, hey, this is my livelihood. I'm coming to work. This is what I do, and this is where I'm going. Would you do this to yourself? Would you do this to people? You know, like, what am I doing here? Like, you would just guilt them into, like, basically let them see how racist this interaction is. And then once they start having that realization and they know that it's legal and they have to let you go through, they eventually let you go.
- [26:02]
Dave Davies
You would cite Geneva conventions?
- [26:05]
Mo Amer
I would. No, absolutely, I would. I would cite Geneva conventions. And this is my rights here. This is what it is according to the articles of 1948. Yeah, absolutely, I would. Yeah. I mean, it's been a while, so I need a massive refresher. But it was one of those things that I had to do. And I would also add to it, like recommendation letters from the respective consulates. I would carry those with me as well as references. So if they had any issues, I would get them before I leave. Before I left Houston, I would get those recommendation letters, and I would have to work that out, right. I would have to call the consulate general of Jordan at that time, like, hey, can you connect me with the Japanese consulate? Maybe he can write me a letter. So when I get there, if I have any issues, I can show that to them. Or I would do that with all those countries, it was like a pretty great hustle. For a kid that was like 18, 19 years old to think that far ahead, that's pretty insane. Who has those backup plans like that? And I learned that from my mom.
- [27:02]
Dave Davies
It took you, I think, 20 years, roughly from when you got to Houston before you got your citizenship. Why did it take so long?
- [27:12]
Mo Amer
It's just the asylee process, you know, dealing with the immigration process. And there was a couple of snafus that nobody really saw coming. But the asylee immigrant process is not like, it's not that easy.
- [27:25]
Dave Davies
So your family applied for asylum and you were waiting for a hearing and a decision for all those years?
- [27:32]
Mo Amer
Absolutely. Absolutely. And more so, you know, my dad passed away. Add another layer of complexity. So we had to, like, start over because we didn't know who the lawyer was, and it was just a whole situation. And then by the time you get another attorney and you get another court date, it takes a lot of time. It's not something that happens overnight. And then when you get there, it has a whole other layers to it, like, oh, what do you need this or this paperwork or that? How can you prove this and that? It takes a while. And then by the time you do get your asylum, if you're lucky enough to get it, you're not deported. It takes you five years to get your green card, another five years to become a citizen. Wow. It's just. That's the way it is. That's the process. So, yeah, it takes time.
- [28:13]
Dave Davies
You know, you traveled a lot, and I happen to know that there's one occasion when you got upgraded to first class and seated next to Eric Trump, of all people. Tell us that story.
- [28:28]
Mo Amer
Well, I mean, it wasn't just a random sitting next to him. It was right after his dad was elected President of the United States, and no one from the Trump administration was speaking to the media. And I didn't even know this because I was so engrossed in touring. I just flew in from Australia to New York, New York. I'm going to Scotland, Glasgow. And I couldn't think. I didn't even know. You know, I'm so exhausted. I get there and I sit next to him. I'm like, is this a joke? Like, I thought this was a joke. I'm like, am I being set up? Am I being recruited into the Illuminati? And I don't know it, like, what's happening? What's going on? And I just initially thought that the, you know, the ticketing agent had a sense of humor. She was just like, oh, Eric Trump is on my fight. Let me see who's on standby here for first class. Oh, Muhammad Mustafa Amer Upgrade. You know, like, I thought that was potentially what was going on. And I jokingly, you know, I gave him the business. I wasn't holding back. And I just told him, was like, hey, this Muslim stuff has gotta just stop. I don't know why it's happening. And you guys need to relax on that. Took a picture with him, and I had a caption. It's been a while now, but something along the lines like, don't worry, guys, there's no Muslim ID cards. And I didn't know it was going to become like a global incident. I landed six hours later in Glasgow and I have emails from every single publication and news outlets on planet Earth. I was like, holy, what did I just do?
- [29:57]
Dave Davies
When you gave him the business and said, you know, talked about the Muslim ban, how did he respond?
- [30:03]
Mo Amer
He was just like, come on, my dad, he was like, the funny thing is like, like, he was just like, you know, we do a lot of business in the Middle East. Come on, nobody's gonna do that. You know, like, I have Arab friends, you know, he did one of those things, which was hilarious. And then I told him, I was like, look, I've got your dad all figured out. He knows the trigger work, right, for the media to cover him and create a spectacle, right? He knows those words. So he keeps the things that he can't touch. He keeps touching them and saying them over and over again. And he knows he's gonna dominate the news coverage. That's what he does. Without even flinching, he goes, yep, that's exactly what he does.
- [30:38]
Dave Davies
Mo Amer stars in the series based on his life called Mo, which is in its second season on Netflix. We'll hear more after this short break. This is FRESH AIR.
- [30:49]
Spectrum Business
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- [31:31]
Capella University
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- [31:50]
Dave Davies
Interesting things about your career, I read that relatively early in your career you got gigs performing before American troops in Europe and then in the Middle east, right?
- [32:01]
Mo Amer
Yeah, Middle East, Japan, Korea, Guam, Bahrain, Germany, Italy, Sicily.
- [32:08]
Dave Davies
What Kind of stuff did you do before then? Did you, I don't know, did you play upon your ethnic background or.
- [32:14]
Mo Amer
Yeah, no, it was important for me to be myself. This was like the first time I did those shows was pre 9 11. It was April of 2001 was the first time I did those in Italy, Germany and Sicily. I went with another comedian named Carolyn Picard who took me on the road with her. And it was, yeah, it was one of those things of just doing standup. Right. It wasn't a big deal. And then 911 happens five months later and I had these shows booked in Japan, Korean Guam. I was like, man, I have to go now. It's a completely different reasoning now. It's not just. I'm not just doing stand up comedy. I'm giving these guys a face, number one to people that are essentially faceless in the media, in television entertainment, and then also for myself. I have to see if I can be myself all the time. Because if that's taken away from me in stand up, then everything is gone. I can't fake and be a different Persona and different person. Like, no, I have to be myself. That is the funniest people, the most authentic people are the best stand up comedians of all time. I can't not be myself. It was a devastating time for me. I was really scared that I might not have a career anymore. And little did I know it was actually empowering for me and for them as well.
- [33:31]
Dave Davies
Yeah, you know, it's been 21 years since then and there's a generation of people who didn't experience that. And people can forget the intensity, you know, of the, well, I mean, anti Arab and anti Islam feeling which rippled through the population and I'm sure through service people that you performed for. Did you get blowback? I mean, how did you deal with it?
- [33:55]
Mo Amer
Very few. I mean, it wasn't really blowback, it was discomfort. And I leaned into that discomfort because I knew it wasn't me. It wasn't. Has nothing to do with me. And it has everything to do with their perception or lack of information. So I never took it hard, I never took it to heart. I never was judgmental of them. I made sure that I stand firm in who I am and let that performance, let the subject matter on stage and let the. Being funny is what's most important. You can't be. Already have some projections on you and then they like, oh, this guy sucks too. You got to be hilarious. That's the number one thing. If you're funny, then it Melts most ice. Right?
- [34:41]
Dave Davies
So how did you lean into this discomfort? What did that sound like on stage?
- [34:47]
Mo Amer
Well, I ripped off the band aid. I just would go up on stage, and when I say stage, I use that loosely because we're performing in war areas in Iraq, and I would just go up on this gravel stage and perform front of all these troops who are completely strapped and, you know, armed. And I walk on and say, hey, guys, my name is Mo. It's actually short for mom and surprise, bitches. Today's the day. I thought that was a really good way to rip off the be. They would just laugh. They loved it. Yeah, they lay ate it up. Oh, my God, they ate it up. And then I went into the storytelling and everything else, and it became such a strong relationship. And I had a lot of very earnest moments with. With a lot of soldiers. And they would just walk up to me and be very emotional with me. You know, it was incredible experience that. I would never take that away, because I get a lot of judgment from even Muslims and Arabs, like, how dare you go over there and do this and they're killing us. And this whole idea of that, I was like, well, you know, obviously I don't agree with war, period. This is all just devastating. And the reasoning behind it is all false and it's bad, and I just don't agree with it. And also, I think it's important to not shy away from it and be present in their life and to give them a new perspective. And it was like a win, win, win, win, win. You know, and for me as well, somebody who fled that region to begin with was really cathartic as well. For me, it was like, there's so many pluses to going there that I couldn't imagine not doing it. I'm so glad I did.
- [36:20]
Dave Davies
And the emotional moments that you had with soldiers, what kind of things did they say to you?
- [36:24]
Mo Amer
It was some remorse. Some of them cried on my shoulders. Some of them had a lot of respectful things to say. And some of them just acknowledging how wrong they were about the projections they had upon the region and the friends that they made that are local, that are Arab, that are Muslim, they found to be, like, really profound moments. And since I came and performed there and we had moments where we could share with each other and have tea and whatever is afforded to us to have a drink together, it was a really potent and hyper real moment. I mean, it can't get any realer than that.
- [37:02]
Dave Davies
You know, in your Netflix special, Mohammed in Texas, you end with A really touching story of you that now that you got your American passport, you went and paid a visit to the village near Nablus where your family had come from. Was that your first time in Palestine?
- [37:20]
Mo Amer
Yeah, that was my first time there, yeah.
- [37:22]
Dave Davies
Yeah. Well, you know, what happens in the standup special is you see you describing some things about this visit, and we see footage from the documentary, and, you know, you talk about tender moments with your family, aunts and cousins. And then you see a mosque, and you go and pay a visit to this mosque in the middle of this town where you pray. And then men in the mosque insist that you say the call to prayer, which is broadcast from a little sound system in the mosque. And the whole village hears it and knows that it's time for prayer. And you say, no, no, no, no, I can't do this. And they say, well, don't you know the prayer? You say, well, don't you know the call? And you say, yes, of course I know the call, but I can't. I can't. They just absolutely insist, and you agree to do it. And so now I want. At this point, I want to pick up the story from the special where you're describing the moment when you have agreed to go and do the call for prayer. Let's listen.
- [38:14]
Mo Amer
And I walk up, I was like, cousin, be next to me because I'm nervous. Make sure I don't mess up. So I do the call for prayer throughout the whole entire village. And I'm overcome. I was like, oh, my God, this is amazing. What is this thing that's been written for me? I can't believe this happened. Right as I'm thinking this, a man just crashes right into the Masjid who did the call for prayer like this? And everybody sells me out. This guy. This guy did the call for prayer. This guy did the call for prayer. I was like, yo, forget y'all, man. Y'all forced me to do the call for prayer. He's like, why'd you do it? I was like, I just told you. They forced me to do the call for prayer. He goes, well, you just did it 10 minutes early, bro. You did it 10 minutes early. I was like, that clock is flashing, man. It's saying it's time. He goes, that clock is 10 minutes ahead. I was like, I don't know. That's a digital clock. Push the little buttons and it'll fix the whole thing. Okay, you want me to do it? And then he goes, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I've been in the village. My entire life. I know everyone in the village. Who are you? I've never seen you before. Who is your father? I tell him, my father is. He goes, oh, my God. He goes, oh, my God. Your father is Mustafa. I was like, yes, my father is Mustafa. He goes, you know who installed the sound system in this masjid? Your father did. It was truly one of the most beautiful things I've ever experienced in my life.
- [39:47]
Dave Davies
And that's our guest Mo Amer from his Netflix comedy special Mohammed in Texas. Does it still give you a chill to hear that?
- [39:55]
Mo Amer
Yeah, man. Chokes me up. I can't believe that happened. You know, it's crazy. It's absolutely mind blowing. And I meant it. Like, what is this thing that's written for me? It's wild. Yeah.
- [40:07]
Dave Davies
I mean, it's like this. The mosque is centuries old and there's this thread pulling you back to it.
- [40:13]
Mo Amer
Yeah. And then to find out that, that because my father was a telecommunications engineer, but more so than that, he was really familiar with technology of all sorts, from televisions to radios. And apparently this is where I learned. Like, your father had a shop here in Burin, and he would teach people what technology was because nobody knew what it was. And he made a joke. He's like, ah, before your dad, they used to plant antennas in the ground and pour water, water on them, hoping they'd get a signal, you know. And I was just making an analogy of what my dad did for the town. And he goes, yeah, your dad's the one who installed the sound system. I was like, are you kidding me? Like, that is just mind blowing.
- [40:56]
Dave Davies
Well, Mo Ammer, it's been fun. Thanks so much for spending some time with us.
- [41:00]
Mo Amer
Oh, thank you so much for having me. Thank you so much. I've had a great time.
- [41:04]
Dave Davies
Mo ammer, recorded in 2022, the second season of his Netflix series Mo, is now streaming. Coming up, Justin Chang reviews Black Bag, the new spy thriller directed by Steven Soderbergh. This is FRESH air.
- [41:20]
Spectrum Business
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- [41:36]
Capella University
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- [42:04]
Spectrum Business
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- [42:25]
Dave Davies
In the new comic spy thriller Black Bag, Cate Blanchett and Michael Fassbender play a married couple who both work as British intelligence agents and who are drawn into a web of intrigue concerning a possible in house mole. Steven Soderbergh directed the film, which opens in theaters today. Our film critic Justin Chang has this.
- [42:44]
Mariah
Review it feels like only yesterday that I was recommending a new movie from the director Steven Soderbergh and the screenwriter David Kepp. Actually, it was about two months ago. The movie was Presence, a ghost story made with a thrift and ingenuity that Soderbergh has long been known for. He and Kep have become ideal creative partners. They're both prolific Hollywood veterans in their early 60s who know genre conventions inside out and who continue to play with those conventions in smart, stylish ways. Compared with Presence and their earlier thriller, Kimmy Soderbergh and Koep's latest outing, Black Bag is certainly a slicker, bigger budget affair, but it still has a breezy, light fingered intelligence that feels consistent with their mo. Cate Blanchett and Michael Fassbender star as Catherine and George, two brilliant, high ranking operatives for Britain's National Cybersecurity center, or ncsc. They're also a longtime married couple, not an easy feat in a profession where monogamous commitment, especially between two agents, is virtually unheard of. It's fair to ask how much Catherine and George can really trust each other, given the insane levels of duplicity and compartmentalization their jobs require. The title Black Bag is basically shorthand for classified intel, something Catherine and George say when they're going somewhere or doing something that they can't disclose. The plot is set in motion by one of those signature movie MacGuffins. A deadly cyberweapon called Severus has fallen into the wrong hands. NCSC suspects one of its own, and so it enlists George, a master at sussing out lies, to figure out who. George tells Catherine that they'll be hosting a dinner party for four of their colleagues, one of whom is the molecular what he doesn't tell Catherine is that she herself is a suspect.
- [44:53]
Mo Amer
I understand this is not the casual dinner you prefer. It's an unusual group. Data scraper, two agents and the in house shrink. What are we hunting this time? Severus. And you think one of them took it? Possibly. Hmm. It's been a while since we had a traitor to dinner. At least knowingly. We shouldn't be discussing this. No, probably not. I would have thought you'd start with polygraphs. I wanted to try something more elegant first. What's on the menu? Fun and games. Will there be a mess to clean up?
- [45:47]
Mariah
With any luck, the four dinner guests are a compelling group, in part because they too are romantically paired off, which makes the whole evening play a bit like a John Lecrae rewrite of who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? Tom Burke plays Freddie, a longtime agent whose reputation for drinking and philandering makes him a volatile match for Clarissa, a smart young data expert played by Marisa Abella. Reggae Jean Page of Bridgerton fame plays an ambitious young agent named James who's in a similarly stormy relationship with Dr. Zoe Vaughn, the agency psychiatrist. She's in the mildly kinky position of knowing everyone's intimate secrets, some of them anyway. Zoe is played by Naomi Harris, who was Moneypenny in the last three James Bond movies. That's not the only 007 tie in. Look out for Pierce Brosnan in a key supporting role as a glowering agency head. Black Bag has its share of Bond style globetrotting intrigue. There's a mysterious murder, a brief car explosion and a nail biter of a secret mission to Zurich. But at heart it isn't really an action movie. It's a marital dramedy masquerading as an espionage thriller. Or maybe it's the other way around. Either way, it's a witty, sexy riff on themes of loyalty and betrayal in relationships as well as on the geopolitical stage. The story unfolds as a series of teasingly intimate one on one conversations in which secrets, lies, red herrings and revelations are dished out. It's been a while since I've seen an ensemble of actors this deliciously in sync. There's an almost promiscuous energy to the way the story keeps pairing the characters off in new and surprising configurations. Fassbender and Abella have a few chaste but scintillating scenes together, and there's an extraordinary sequence in which Catherine goes in for a therapy session with Zoe, a battle of wits for which both Blanchett and Harris are exceedingly well equipped. In the end, though, it's Catherine and George who hold our attention the most. They have been told that their marriage is their one major weakness, as it risks compromising them both. And Blanchett and Fassbender, without so much as a hint of histrionics, convey that even amid all the fun and games, something real is very much at stake. I don't think it gives away too much to say that Black Bag is ultimately an ode to a happy marriage. I'm talking about George and Catherine, of course, but after three terrific movies in a row, I'm also talking a little about Soderbergh.
- [48:45]
Dave Davies
Justin Chang is a film critic at the New Yorker. He reviewed Black Bag on Monday. Show writer Clay Risen describes a political movement which destroyed the careers of thousands of teachers, civil servants and artists whose beliefs or associations were deemed un American. His book Red Scare is about Post World War II America, but he says there's a through line connecting that era to our current political moment. I hope you can join us.
- [49:20]
Mo Amer
To.
- [49:20]
Dave Davies
Keep up with what's on the show and get highlights of our interviews. Follow us on Instagram nprfreshair. Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Sam Brigger is our managing producer. Our senior producer today is Roberta Shorrock. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham, with additional engineering support from Joyce Lieberman and Julian Herzfeld. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Ann Marie Baldonado, Lauren Krenzel, Teresa Madden, Monique Nazareth, Thea Chaloner, Susan Yakundi, Anna Bauman and Joel Wolfram. Our digital media producer is Molly Seavey Nesper. For Terry Gross and Tonya Moseley, I'm Dave David.
- [50:03]
Spectrum Business
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