Fresh Air – "The Stories Behind Your Favorite Christmas Songs"

Date: December 21, 2025
Host: Terry Gross
Guests: Mel Tormé (archive, 1977), Hugh Martin & Ralph Blaine (archive, 1989 & 2006), Jon Batiste (2024)

Overview

This Fresh Air holiday special explores the rich histories and emotional legacies of some of the most beloved Christmas songs. Terry Gross looks back at in-depth archival interviews with legendary songwriters Mel Tormé ("The Christmas Song"), Hugh Martin and Ralph Blaine ("Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas"), and musician Jon Batiste as he reinterprets and reflects on both classic and sacred Christmas music. Through engaging conversations and rare anecdotes, listeners gain insight into the artistic process, stories of collaboration, and how these iconic songs continue to touch lives year after year.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Story Behind "The Christmas Song" (Chestnuts Roasting...)

Guest: Mel Tormé (Interview from 1977)
Segment Start: [02:14]

• Origins of the Song:

  • Written on a scorching July day in 1945 by Mel Tormé and his songwriting partner Bob Wells.
  • Inspiration came from Wells, who wrote wintery lines to cool himself off during a heatwave.
  • The main lyric lines ("Chestnuts roasting on an open fire...") were found scribbled on a notepad by Tormé when he arrived at Wells’ house.
  • “I thought I’d write something down, something that would cool me off. … And you know, this just might make a song. 25 minutes later, the song was finished.” – Mel Tormé [03:41]

• Division of Creative Roles:

  • Both Tormé and Wells contributed to lyrics and music, but Tormé was primarily the composer.
  • Tormé credits Wells with writing the pivotal opening lines: “The first four lines are really the most. They’re the ones that people remember. … Bob Wells wrote them, but that triggered the rest of the song.” [04:14]

• Favorite Version and Success:

  • Favorite Recording: Nat King Cole's version.
    • “He was the first and the best … that’s still the best record.” – Mel Tormé [05:20]
  • The song has over 500 renditions.
  • The royalties have been “utterly enormous,” making more than a million dollars each for Tormé and Wells.
    • “I could have bought a jet plane with it … it’s mind blowing.” – Tormé [05:56]

• Reception by Publishers:

  • Unlike many hit songs, it was almost immediately predicted to become a classic.
  • “From the very get go, from the very left hand corner, from the top of it, they said, Hey, this is going to be a big song.” – Tormé [06:53]

2. Creating "Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas"

Guests: Hugh Martin & Ralph Blaine (1989 interview), Hugh Martin solo (2006 update)
Segment Start: [08:55]; [14:15]; [17:05]

• Early Development:

  • Began as a madrigal-like melody Hugh Martin struggled with and threw away. Ralph Blaine persuaded him to retrieve and finish it.
  • The original lyrics were deemed too sad—even for the tearful scene in "Meet Me in St. Louis."
    • “The original version was so lugubrious that Judy Garland refused to sing it.” – Hugh Martin [19:20]
  • Early lines: “Have yourself a merry little Christmas, it may be your last. Next year we may all be living in the past.”
  • Producer and stars encouraged Martin to revise for a more hopeful tone.

• Collaborative Dynamics & “Jollying Up” for Sinatra:

  • The “muddle through somehow” lyric was changed at Frank Sinatra’s request for his “A Jolly Christmas” album.
    • “Frank called… he said, give me a happy line and I'll record the song. And Hugh came up with the line ‘hang a shining star upon the highest bough.’” – Ralph Blaine [11:19]
  • Martin later revealed on Fresh Air that Blaine was not an actual co-writer.
    • “First of all, I feel rather self-serving admitting this, but Ralph didn’t really write it, honey. We wrote our songs separately. So it’s words and music by me.” – Hugh Martin [17:05]

• Reflections and Favorite Versions:

  • Most cherished: Judy Garland’s original, Mel Tormé’s version, and Frank Sinatra’s interpretations.
    • “Judy Garland, of course—always tops with me. And Mel Tormé … Frank Sinatra, you can’t beat Mr. Blue Eyes.” – Hugh Martin [15:19]

• On Commercialization of Christmas:

  • Martin expresses dismay at how Christmas has become commercial and less magical with time.
    • “I just hate the Santa Claus and the jingle bells and reindeer and the wrapped packages and the holiday push … I just loved it when it was … old-fashioned.” – Hugh Martin [22:44]

• Anecdote – Terry’s Influence on Martin’s Singing:

  • Martin credits a past Fresh Air interview for encouraging him to continue singing.
    • “I never would have continued singing at all if it hadn't been for you … when at the end of the cut, you said, ‘Ooh, I like your singing. I like it a lot.’ And that thrilled me so that I kept on singing.” – Hugh Martin [24:10]

3. Jon Batiste: Christmas Songs at the Piano

Guest: Jon Batiste (2024)
Segment Start: [28:05]

• Perspectives on Christmas Music:

  • Batiste discusses the emotional range: some songs are transcendent, others are “irritating earworms.”
  • A Charlie Brown Christmas soundtrack by Vince Guaraldi is a major influence; those melodies are a blueprint for Batiste’s own music.
    • “That soundtrack, that album really changed me a lot. A lot of that influence comes in to my music.” – Jon Batiste [30:00]

• Interpretations of Classics:

  • “God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen” – performed with a bluesy, minor key twist.
    • “God rest ye merry gentlemen. Let nothing you dismay…” [30:39]
    • “I love that melody … It’s got a blues thing to it.” – Batiste [31:39]
  • “What Child Is This?” (Greensleeves) and “O Come, O Come Emmanuel” – Batiste draws parallels in their tonal moods, evoking church bells and winter majesty.
    • “That sound is so … reminds me of bells ringing in the dead of night on Christmas Eve.” – Batiste [32:16]

• Personal Connections to Christmas and Church:

  • Shares memories of growing up in New Orleans with Catholic and Baptist traditions.
  • Describes the special feeling of midnight Mass and the role of hymns.
    • “For me, I actually connected to it most during that time.” – Batiste [34:44]

• "Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas":

  • Batiste plays the song at Terry’s request, focusing on “muddle through somehow” and how the hopeful-yet-melancholic lyrics remain poignant.
    • “That lyric is one of my favorites, actually. Now that you mentioned it. It has a relevance to our time.” – Batiste [37:55]
    • Terry Gross: “I like the muddle through one.” [20:19]

• “O Holy Night” and Harmonic Analysis:

  • Batiste explains how the composition’s “minor 3 chord” provides a sense of blues and transcendence.
    • “Anytime you go to that chord, it’s a minor 3 chord. That’s one of my favorite progressions … that transition.” – Batiste [42:01]

• Improvisational Medley:

  • Batiste closes with a medley weaving Beethoven’s "Moonlight Sonata," his own composition “Don’t Stop,” and Leonard Cohen’s “Hallelujah.”
    • “So with all you've got. Don't stop. … Hallelujah, Hallelujah…” [43:21–46:26]
    • Terry Gross: “What was the middle piece that I didn’t recognize?”
      Batiste: “That’s a piece entitled Don’t Stop. It was the final track from my first album, Hollywood Africans.” [46:44]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|---------------|-------| | [03:41] | Mel Tormé | “I thought I’d write something down, something that would cool me off. … 25 minutes later, the song was finished.” | | [05:20] | Mel Tormé | “He [Nat King Cole] was the first and the best … that’s still the best record.” | | [05:56] | Mel Tormé | “I could have bought a jet plane with it ... it's mind blowing.” | | [11:19] | Ralph Blaine | “Frank [Sinatra] called us… he said, give me a happy line and I'll record the song. … ‘hang a shining star upon the highest bough.’” | | [14:55] | Hugh Martin | “It really had an emotional impact on me. It made me feel so connected with a generation that’s not my generation.” | | [17:05] | Hugh Martin | “First of all, I feel rather self-serving admitting this, but Ralph didn’t really write it, honey. … it’s words and music by me.” | | [19:20] | Hugh Martin | “…the original version was so lugubrious that Judy Garland refused to sing it.” | | [22:44] | Hugh Martin | “I just hate the Santa Claus and the jingle bells and reindeer and the wrapped packages and the holiday push. I hate all of that. … I loved it when it was … old-fashioned.” | | [24:10] | Hugh Martin | “I never would have continued singing at all if it hadn't been for you … you said, ‘Ooh, I like your singing. I like it a lot.’ And that thrilled me so that I kept on singing.” | | [30:00] | Jon Batiste | “That soundtrack, that album really changed me a lot. A lot of that influence comes in to my music.” (On "A Charlie Brown Christmas") | | [31:39] | Jon Batiste | “…It’s got a blues thing to it.” (“God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen”) | | [32:16] | Jon Batiste | “That sound is so … reminds me of bells ringing in the dead of night on Christmas Eve.” | | [37:55] | Jon Batiste | “That lyric is one of my favorites, actually. Now that you mentioned it. It has a relevance to our time.” | | [42:01] | Jon Batiste | “Anytime you go to that chord, it’s a minor 3 chord. That’s one of my favorite progressions … that transition.” | | [46:54] | Jon Batiste | “That’s a piece entitled Don’t Stop. It was the final track from my first album, Hollywood Africans.” |

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:14] Mel Tormé on writing "The Christmas Song"
• [05:20] Tormé on Nat King Cole's iconic version
• [08:55] Interview with Hugh Martin & Ralph Blaine on "Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas"
• [14:15] Hugh Martin’s 2006 return discusses the true authorship and his feelings about the song’s impact
• [17:05] Martin clarifies authorship and the song’s evolution
• [20:23] Twisted Sister’s version of "Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas" airs
• [22:18] Hugh Martin’s favorite Christmas memory and reflections on modern Christmas
• [24:10] Martin credits Terry Gross for encouraging his singing
• [28:05] Jon Batiste segment begins, reflecting on and playing holiday music
• [30:00] Batiste on “A Charlie Brown Christmas”
• [31:39] Batiste’s bluesy “God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen”
• [36:52] Batiste plays and discusses "Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas" and "O Holy Night"
• [43:32] Batiste’s medley: Beethoven, his own song “Don’t Stop,” and “Hallelujah”

Tone and Language

• The episode is warm, nostalgic, and reflective, marked by the personal candor of its guests and a conversational rapport with Terry Gross.
• Humor and humility are present, especially when songwriters discuss failed drafts, happy accidents, and the ever-changing nature of Christmas traditions.

Conclusion

This Fresh Air holiday anthology connects listeners to the deep emotional wellsprings behind popular Christmas songs, from hot July days that sparked wintry lyrics to the revisions and negotiations with legendary performers. The mix of songwriting secrets, iconic performances, and Jon Batiste’s joyful reinterpretations demonstrate how these songs are both timeless and ever-renewed—reminders of loss, hope, and togetherness across generations.