Walton Goggins Was Raised By A Village

Summary

Podcast Summary: Fresh Air – "Walton Goggins Was Raised By A Village"

Release Date: May 22, 2025

Host: Tonya Moseley
Guest: Walton Goggins
Program: Fresh Air by NPR

---

Introduction

In this intimate and engaging episode of Fresh Air, co-host Tonya Moseley sits down with the versatile actor Walton Goggins. Known for his magnetic and morally complex characters in series such as Justified, The White Lotus, and The Righteous Gemstones, Goggins delves deep into his upbringing, career trajectory, and the personal philosophies that shape his approach to acting.

---

Early Life and Family

Walton Goggins opens up about his childhood in Atlanta, Georgia, where he was raised by his single mother with the support of her sisters and his grandmother. He emphasizes the profound influence his mother had on his life, teaching him how to dance and instilling in him a strong sense of self.

[01:32] Walton Goggins: "I was raised in Atlanta, Georgia by my mother with the help of her three sisters and my grandmother. And my mama is the most important person in my life."

Goggins describes a close-knit "village" upbringing, highlighting the collective support he received from his extended family and community. This tight-knit environment fostered his empathy and ability to connect deeply with others—traits that later became essential in his acting career.

[05:49] Walton Goggins: "I've always kind of had the moniker that Walton raised himself. And what I mean by that is it wasn't neglected. It was the opposite. It was like a village. Like, I was raised by a village of people."

---

Career Beginnings and Struggles

Goggins shares his journey into acting, which was marked by a series of humble beginnings and persistent efforts. Before breaking into acting, he held various jobs, including working on construction sites, as a DJ at a skating rink, and selling bait at 12 years old. These experiences grounded him and taught him the value of hard work.

[11:38] Walton Goggins: "Yeah. At 12. And you have had some really interesting jobs. Before you became an actor, you worked a construction site."

Despite his early passion for storytelling, Goggins faced significant challenges in securing leading roles due to his distinctive appearance and personality. He candidly discusses moments of frustration but underscores his commitment to taking every opportunity seriously.

[23:40] Walton Goggins: "I just never, you know, I've been around for such a long time based on my looks or my personality, you know, I'm not like a conventional leading man."

His perseverance paid off when television offered a more diverse range of roles, allowing him to showcase his versatility and build a robust career.

---

Notable Roles and Insights

Throughout the interview, Goggins reflects on some of his most impactful roles. He discusses Boyd Crowder from Justified, highlighting the character's journey of escaping poverty and reinventing himself—parallels he draws with his own life.

[31:45] Walton Goggins: "Boyd Crowder's journey is something that is so profoundly intimate to me, just like Rick in The White Lotus."

He also explores his role in the independent film The Uninvited, which he co-created with his wife. The film serves as a personal invitation to live life more meaningfully, emphasizing that wealth and status cannot shield individuals from life's inherent challenges.

[27:34] Walton Goggins: "The Uninvited is actually an invitation to live your life more meaningfully."

Goggins recounts a heartfelt experience from hosting Saturday Night Live, where he shared the stage with his mother—a moment he describes as a career high point.

[02:50] Walton Goggins: "And my mama is here tonight. We've come a really long way, haven't we, Mom?"

---

Personal Reflections and Philosophy

Goggins speaks passionately about the importance of empathy and storytelling, traits he attributes to his upbringing. He views acting as a "religion," a sacred duty to understand and portray diverse human experiences authentically.

[29:26] Walton Goggins: "The art of storytelling, the job of storytelling, the privilege of storytelling, for me, it is a religion."

He reflects on advice received from Robert Duvall during his early career, which emphasized maintaining an open heart and authenticity in his work.

[19:23] Walton Goggins: "Don't lose that. He said, be that open always. What you do have is an open heart. And don't lose that love and passion for this work."

Goggins also touches upon his personal struggles with insecurity stemming from his upbringing and how those experiences continue to influence his approach to life and acting.

[13:13] Walton Goggins: "I do feel that being kind is important... It is something that I value, yeah. Deeply."

---

Conclusion

The conversation concludes with Goggins expressing gratitude for his life's journey and the ongoing opportunities to tell meaningful stories. He underscores his commitment to empathy and understanding in both his personal life and his craft, highlighting that his journey is far from over.

[29:26] Walton Goggins: "What's so exciting about my life is that I'm not done. There are more people for me to meet."

Tonya Moseley praises Goggins for his dedication and the depth he brings to his roles, closing the interview on a note of mutual respect and admiration.

[40:38] Walton Goggins: "It has been such a pleasure to be in your company. Thank you so much for this conversation, truly."

---

Key Takeaways

• Community and Upbringing: Goggins credits his strong sense of community and the support from his family for shaping his empathetic nature and resilience.

• Career Persistence: Despite early struggles in the acting industry, his unwavering commitment and willingness to seize every opportunity propelled his successful career.

• Empathy in Storytelling: Goggins sees storytelling as a sacred duty, aiming to understand and authentically portray diverse human experiences.

• Personal Growth: Reflecting on his past, Goggins emphasizes the importance of kindness, overcoming insecurities, and continually striving for personal and professional growth.

---

This episode of Fresh Air offers a profound glimpse into Walton Goggins' life, revealing the personal and professional experiences that have defined his remarkable acting career. Through his candid reflections, listeners gain an appreciation for the man behind the memorable characters and the values that drive his passion for storytelling.

Transcript

[Capital One Ad]

This message comes from Capital One. Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts. What's in your wallet terms apply. See capitalone.combank for details. Capital One NA member FDIC.

[Tonya Moseley]

This is FRESH AIR. I'm Tonya Moseley and today my guest is Walton Goggins. He has been on a run like no other, the White Lotus, the Righteous Gemstones, Fallout and his newest film, the Uninvited. It's the latest surge in a 30 year career built on playing some of the most magnetic and morally complex characters in film and television. From the sharp witted outlaw Boyd Crowder in Justified to the swaggering, scheming baby Billy Freeman in the Righteous Gemstones to a series of layered portrayals of Southern men in films including Quentin Tarantino's Django Unchained and the Hateful Eight. Goggins has talked about how he tries to bring authenticity and nuance to his roles portraying Southern men, resisting the pressure to to turn them into caricatures. Lately, Goggins has been reflecting on the arc of his career and how his childhood has informed his approach to his craft. And when we sat down for our interview, he said, let's get into the thick of it, the real of it, life in between the roles. So that's exactly what we did. We started talking about hosting Saturday Night Live, which he did a few weeks ago. It was the day before Mother's Day and he describes it as a high point in his career in part because he shared the moment with his mother.

[Walton Goggins]

I was raised in Atlanta, Georgia by my mother with the help of her three sisters and my grandmother. And my mama is the most important person in my life. Growing up, whenever my mama, she couldn't afford a babysitter, she would take me with her to honky tonks. My mother taught me how to clog, taught me how to two step. And luckily enough for me, my mama is here tonight. We've come a really long way, haven't we, Mom? Absolutely. And since it's Mother's Day tomorrow, Mama, would you dance with me? Yeah, right here. Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You know what? Hold on. Let's kick this up a notch, fellas. If you don't.

[Tonya Moseley]

Goggins, welcome to FRESH air.

[Walton Goggins]

So, so happy to be here. Thank you for the invitation.

[Tonya Moseley]

Waldenette was such a beautiful moment and she came up on stage and then you all started dancing. But you know, the thing that really got me about that is when you're raised by a single mom There is nobody like you and your mother knowing what it took for you to be up on that stage.

[Walton Goggins]

It's very true. And my mom's life story is so interesting. And the journey that it took her, the life that she led up until having a child, and then the life that subsequently we had together, to be kind of on that stage in that moment after not seeing my mom for a year.

[Tonya Moseley]

Really?

[Walton Goggins]

Why?

[Tonya Moseley]

Because you were busy?

[Walton Goggins]

I've just been on the road for a year and a half. And it just so happened that she came to our home and stepped in when I was out of town to help my wife. And she's obviously really close to her grandson, our son. But I just missed her and I kept missing her by, like, a day or something. So I saw her in her dressing room at 30 Rock for the first time. I mean, that was the reunion I had. And five minutes later, we're doing the first run through of the monologue and the dancing and all of the emotions, all the feels were happening, like in real time in front of other people. And it was really remarkable. And, you know, and obviously the tears kind of in her eyes. My mom has no stage, right.

[Tonya Moseley]

Well, obviously, because she jumped right into.

[Walton Goggins]

It, right in, like, give me a crowd. If I'm dancing for one person or I'm dancing for a million, it doesn't matter to my mom. And she's had such an amazing spiritual journey that she knows exactly who she is. And that's rubbed off on me.

[Tonya Moseley]

And you've talked about how growing up, it was you and her, and you all had each other, and you would go, she would take you when she didn't have a babysitter, to the honky tonks.

[Walton Goggins]

I mean, I have a single mother, and she had some amazing boyfriends that were extremely influential in my life. But she also had three sisters, my aunts and my grandmother. And then I had my grandfather, my father's father, and my grandmother kind of on that side, too. But it was. I wasn't raised, honestly, Tanya, by anybody. And if my mom was sitting here, she would say the same thing. I've always kind of had the moniker that Walton raised himself. And what I mean by that is it wasn't neglected. It was the opposite. It was. There were always people around. It was like a village. Like, I was raised by a village of people.

[Tonya Moseley]

This makes sense because you said something a while ago that, like, you never slept more than seven days in the same bed until you were like around 15 years old, ever. And so now this is kind of Making sense. Is that because you were in a village, you were just going from house to house or. Why was that?

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, I mean, you know, my mother wasn't, you know, young. Young when she had me. I mean, she had me. I think she was 23 or something like that. And. But, you know, my parents got divorced when I was three, and. And, you know, we lived in Decatur, Georgia, you know, downtown, a little duplex. And then eventually we, you know, got this little house out in Lithia Springs, Georgia. And, you know, it was everything for my mom to buy a house and. But with that, my mom just had a lot of great friends.

[Tonya Moseley]

Screens weren't a big part of your life. Meaning, like, you weren't someone who was really into movies or shows growing up, but you always sit on the porch. Was this at your mom's house, on the front porch, and just talk to people?

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, you know, yeah, it was. No, we didn't go to see a lot of movies. I mean, we went to some seminal movies, but it wasn't certainly a big part of our life. I mean, we had a television, you know. I mean, Sanford and Son and, you know, the Jeffersons and tbs.

[Tonya Moseley]

Those are the ones you were watching.

[Walton Goggins]

And the Braves, you know. Yeah, absolutely. I still watch them, you know, but. But, yeah, so we didn't. Didn't have a lot of screens. Kind of growing up, that really wasn't a big. A big part of our life. My. My. My Aunt Joan and her husband, my Uncle Mark, they were both actors in the theater and regional, kind of equity theater, usually, like, all over, kind of the south, but they traveled a bit up north, and I grew up watching them on stage. But this entire group of people that I'm talking to you about, all of them, like, you could just hand the microphone to any one of these people, and they could just command the room for hours. And no one interrupted their story because they just wanted to hear it. And it was just a lot of laughter, a lot of weed, you know, and they were. They were all deeply empathic people, and they wore their emotions on their sleeve, and they always cared about other people.

[Tonya Moseley]

It seems like it's something that is of great value to you. One of the details that I always find funny, I've heard you say the story a couple of times that, like, you were runner up for the friendliest person in the mock election in high school. And the thing about that, that really got me was that you hold onto that detail that you were run, you know, but also that, like, that is a quality of yours. That you feel is important?

[Walton Goggins]

I do feel that being kind is important. I mean, it's not like I. Excuse my language. It's not like I can't be an asshole. I can for sure, but I.

[Tonya Moseley]

But it's something that you value.

[Walton Goggins]

It is something that I value, yeah. Deeply. And this is the women in my family. This is my mother. We never had a washer and dryer when I was young. And so we'd go to the laundromat, like a lot of people do, and there was a video game there, you know, arcade game, Centipede or whatever, and she would give me the change to play it. But spending those years in a laundromat, just being around people. My mother's dream in life was to be able to afford to be able to take $1,000 out of the bank and. And go around to all these other people folding their laundry, and when they weren't looking, slip in a $20 bill, you know, like, so that when they got home, it's like, wow. Oh, my God. Like, in their sweatpants.

[Tonya Moseley]

That was a dream she would share with you?

[Walton Goggins]

That was a. Yeah, absolutely. It's like, what would you do with a million dollars? This is what I would do with $1,000, you know? And that led me to have this experience in Cambodia.

[Tonya Moseley]

What did you do?

[Walton Goggins]

Okay, ready for this? I was traveling in Southeast Asia. I was in Cambodia, and then I was in Northern Vietnam. I came back to Cambodia, and I wanted to go work for an organization because I met this really cool backpacker, and she said, I just got back, and this organization was cool. I called them, and I said, I'd really like to come. I'd like to give some money or I'd like to do something like a lot of people do. The guy never got back to me, and I. But so then I had this driver, his name was Tang, and he had this tuk tuk, right. That he drove me around. I knew enough about the country to know that there are families that still comb the trash pile. Looking for jewelry and things of value. Yeah. That they can make money off of. Correct. So stopped at atm. I got out $2,000 in small bills, and we spent, I want to say, 12 hours just walking that trash pile on top of it, and then the tents and everything that are off to the side, and I just gave it out $20 at a time, just like my mama. And it was one of the greatest experiences of my life.

[Tonya Moseley]

You know, to grow up poor, you always have dreams that, like, one day I'll be Able to do this? Or what would you do with this? Or what would you give up in life to have a million dollars? You know, sometimes it' those. Those fantasies and jokes. You started working at 12 years old.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah. At 12.

[Tonya Moseley]

And you have had some really interesting jobs. Before you became an actor, you worked a construction site.

[Walton Goggins]

Yep. Mixing cement. Yeah.

[Tonya Moseley]

Mixing cement.

[Walton Goggins]

Yep. For rock masons. Yep.

[Tonya Moseley]

Skating rink.

[Walton Goggins]

Skate. Skating rink. It was. I think it's all. It's been downhill from there. Yeah. As a DJ in a skating rink. Yep. Yep. Going into my summer before my ninth grade year, I sold bait. I. I worked with a roofing crew.

[Tonya Moseley]

And going to school, too. Were you going to school?

[Walton Goggins]

Well, it was summer. Right. And. But then we had a program once we got into high school where, you know, you could start working, I think, in the 11th grade or something like that. However many hours that you could work for a week. It was very different back then. And, yeah, I got in that program and. And I just kept working. And I worked in retail, you know, at the mall, like a lot of people do, but with my best friend, this guy Edwin, and a crew of guys that I grew up with, we sold newspapers, the Atlanta Journal and Constitution, door to door, and we would only work, like, three hours a day, but we had that gift of gab, you know, and, you know, just to make people have a good time. And we sold so many. So many subscriptions to Atlanta Journal and Constitution. It was so much fun. Yeah.

[Tonya Moseley]

I mean, you've talked, though, about, like, you wanted to have money in your pocket, but you also kind of felt a little bit of insecurity, but maybe even shame about being poor.

[Walton Goggins]

Oh, God, absolutely. And I don't carry it with me so much anymore. But I think that's one of the most profound kind of insecurities that I had with me for a long time. Two things, really, but one, being this outsider, you know, not having a lot as a kid. And there was one moment where I was dating this girl, and I was just. I just liked her so much. I had the biggest crush on this person. And I remember her mom was coming to pick me up, and I think I lied to my mom. She knew where I was gonna. Like, I was gonna go. And I said, I think she. Mom, I think. I think she's gonna be here pretty soon. I didn't give her my address. I gave her my neighbor's address. And I said, okay, Mama, I think you're coming. I love you. Bye. Bye. And I, you know, ran out and hid in the ditch and I saw these lights kind of coming, and I. And I knew it was them, and so I just jumped out and, like, as if I was walking down the driveway, and they pulled in, and then the porch light kind of came on behind me, and I just jumped in the car. It's like, okay, let's go. Let's go. Can't we meet your. You know, your mom? No, no, no. She's. Let's just get out of here. And the other thing was not having a note. Finishing college and not having those four years of deep, soulful learning.

[Tonya Moseley]

You spent a year in college. And I just wondered about this, because you carry, like, an insecurity about that. That you didn't have maybe that formative education with all the classics and things like that.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, just being in conversations. When I got out to Los Angeles, it was one ride in particular kind of coming back from San Diego to la, where I was with this group of people that all went to, you know, fancy schools, and they were talking about literature and referencing all of these different authors and the characters in these books, and I just had no idea what they were talking about. Nothing. And. And I just kept, like, making these mental notes. You know, before cell phone, I couldn't put a note down. It was like, okay, you're like Ernest Hemingway, Somerset, Mom. Like, all of these different. Different things. John Stein Steinbeck. And. And then I just kind of set out to do that on my own. But I would have given anything to have had that time. I wouldn't have traded my life because I wouldn't want anything to be altered in my life, because I'm so grateful for the life that I have, not just in this moment. I've always been grateful for my life, but if I could go back and not alter my life, I would take four years meeting kids in class and. And talking politics in a second.

[Tonya Moseley]

Why did you leave after a year to go from college?

[Walton Goggins]

Because I got this offer from American Express to go into debt.

[Tonya Moseley]

You got. Wait, wait, wait, wait. You got to tell this. So you got in the mail.

[Walton Goggins]

I showed up to college like everybody else, and I began getting mail. And one of the first pack of advertising was this offer from American Express that said, if you get this card, you will get two flight vouchers for $99 east of the Mississippi or $199 west of the Mississippi. And I looked at them, and I thought, all I've got to do is get this card and I can go to Los Angeles for $199. Because the. The tickets were so expensive back then.

[Tonya Moseley]

And at that time, you had already had the acting bug and I already started working.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah. And they had done like in the Heat of the Night and then this big movie of the week called Murder of Mississippi about the three slain civil rights workers. Yeah.

[Tonya Moseley]

Had it already crystallized in your mind then by. By that time that that acting was the career you wanted to go into?

[Walton Goggins]

I mean, certainly that was going to be a part of my experience, was trying it, you know, I mean, endeavoring to do it. Endeavoring to learn what it is that you're asking yourself to do. Absolutely. I would be lying if I said otherwise. But it was really also to have an experience like, I just wanted to get out. I just wanted to see the world. I wanted a passport that was filled with stamps from all over the world, and that's what I wanted. And coming to Los Angeles, being able to at least try to become a storyteller was going to be a part of my journey. And then if that didn't work out, you know, I don't know what I would have done, but it would have. I would have had a passport filled with stamps from other countries that I do know.

[Tonya Moseley]

How much money did you come to LA with in your pocket?

[Walton Goggins]

300 bucks.

[Tonya Moseley]

There's an element when you grow up in poverty that a little bit of it always stays with you.

[Walton Goggins]

Always.

[Tonya Moseley]

What are the ways that you might know that others may not even perceive?

[Walton Goggins]

I still save my per diem. Like, you know, I understand, you know, the value of a dollar.

[Tonya Moseley]

And the per diem is what the studio gives you or what they give you when you're on a movie.

[Walton Goggins]

A living allowance.

[Tonya Moseley]

Yeah, a living allowance, yeah.

[Walton Goggins]

And I will spend $1,000 on a meal, but only after I've eaten for free for 10 days. You know what I mean? Just the insecurity of. Even though I never lost a house, my mom never lost her house or anything like that, but the insecurity of not being able to provide for my family.

[Tonya Moseley]

I want to talk about some of your early roles because one of your first roles happened in 1997 with Robert Duvall on the Apostle. And this film to remind people is Duvall plays Sonny. He is a Pentecostal preacher and he's charismatic but deeply flawed. And you played this young man, Sam, who becomes a born again Christian after you meet Duvall's character. I read that after you all finished filming, Duvall took you to lunch and he gave you some advice.

[Walton Goggins]

Well, he gave me some advice and he gave me a compliment that I certainly wasn't expecting. We were at lunch and he said, I want to tell you something. Hey, hey. He said, you know, not many people can do what you just did. Not many people are willing to do what you just did. And because you're not thinking about it and you're just coming from your heart, there is no filter on you and you're turning yourself over to an imaginary set of circumstances. But he said, don't lose that. He said, I don't even think you're fearless. I don't even think fear comes into it. I think maybe you're fearful, but I don't think it's a decision for you to be fearless. I don't think you came to this job thinking, I'm going to show people. I'm going to just let it all hang out. It's just in your body. And don't ever, ever, ever lose that. Like, be that open always. What he was saying was you're not jaded. You're not, I mean, it's not like you don't have obstacles that you need to overcome and deep insecurities. But what you do have is an open heart. And don't, don't lose that man. You know what I mean? Always come from that, even if you get it wrong. But don't lose that love and passion for this work or that you, you know, appear to have in life.

[Tonya Moseley]

Our guest today is actor Walton Goggins. We'll be right back after a short break. I'm Tanya Moseley and this is FRESH air.

[Capital One Ad]

This message comes from Thuma. Create your oasis with Thuma, a modern design company that specializes in furniture and home goods by stripping away everything but the essential. Thuma makes elevated beds with premium materials and intentional details with clean lines, subtle curves and minimalist style. The Thuma bed collection is available in four signature finishes to match any design aesthetic. To get $100 towards your first bed purchase, go to T H U M A CO npr.

[Tonya Moseley]

I'm Tanya Mosley, co host of FRESH air. At a time of sound bites and short attention spans, our show is all about the deep dive. We do long form interviews with people behind the best in film, books, tv, music and journalism. Here, our guests open up about their process and their lives in ways you've never heard before. Listen to the FRESH AIR podcast from NPR and why? Why? One of the things about you as an actor that I, I see over and over again is that you know you're memorable and every single thing that you're in, people remember you. And it's also true that you haven't gotten quite a bit of roles because you're so memorable. Because can they have this guy who's like, everyone can see and know, be like the supporting actor. Was that ever frustrating for you at any point in your career?

[Walton Goggins]

Well, I just never, you know, I've been around for such a long time based on my looks or my personality, you know, I'm not like a conventional leading man or I haven't been, you know, my whole life. And the people that knew what to do with me knew what to do with me early on, but I just didn't have those opportunities. And film, you know, a couple of, like, kind of leading roles that movies that no one saw and I. And I'm still so proud of them. And I just. I made the most out of every single opportunity that I was given. And. Because the only thing that you can control in this business is the work that you put into it, right. Expecting nothing in return. And I had had that. I just didn't have those opportunities. And it was only once television kind of opened up for me that I began to carve out a space for me with these opportunities that went in many different ways. But for the most part, if you get the opportunity to go to work, you go to work whenever you've been away from it a little long because your ego got involved and you think, oh, well, that's beneath. Is it really go to work.

[Tonya Moseley]

Have you had those moments?

[Walton Goggins]

Oh, man. You know, after the Shield, you know, I mean, it was prestige television. At the dawning of this last iteration of that.

[Tonya Moseley]

This was like your really big regular series.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, yeah, 2001. Yeah, it would have been. We did the pilot before 9 11, and then they picked it up and we went to work, whatever, six or seven months later. But after that experience, you know, seven years having that experience. After that, you know, I couldn't get a job for anything. You know, nothing kind of came my way. And I guess because just like when people saw the Apostle, we had a premiere at the Toronto Film Festival, and I remember my manager's friend leaning in and whispering my ear, this is going to be a big movie for you. Even though, you know you have a smaller part, you take it emotionally. Get ready. Nothing happened because people thought I was just from New Orleans and from Louisiana, and I just got this local hire or whatever, and people thought that about me, like, for a really long time.

[Tonya Moseley]

Did you get excited about that? Cause, like, I'm just thinking you've been in so many, you know, like, okay, you're in the Apostle, then the Shield, then you go into these prestige movies.

[Walton Goggins]

I didn't think too much about it, to be quite honest with you, Tanya. I just thought, just go back to work. And so after the Shield, nothing happened. And then friend of mine was doing this movie, it offered me a really, really small part, and my ego was in the way. It was like, man, I just want more. And I was walking with my wife. She looked at me and said, you need to go to work. And I said, yeah, that's exactly what I need to do. I'm gonna call him right now. And I did. I took it. And work begets work. And so for me, that's happened two or three times in my. After the Hateful Eight, I could. Phone didn't ring, you know, for a long time. And it's like, man, this is. This is Quentin. That's a pretty good role. I mean, that's a pretty good.

[Tonya Moseley]

I mean, like, right? Everybody's thinking, this is the moment. Okay, I'm in a Quentin Tarantino movie.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, a second one, right, With Sam and with Kurt and Jen and Tim, like. And I couldn't get a job. And then I got a phone call to do something, and I just thought, yeah, you know what? I could do that. And it was just. It's almost like God just said, okay, well, you're just gonna have to keep moving, you know what I mean? You're gonna have to keep swimming upstream in all of these different ways and go off on this little tributary or this one here, because those are the opportunities that you're getting. So just say yes.

[Tonya Moseley]

It's interesting you mentioned your wife. You know, you're going for a walk, and she can see in you, you gotta go to work. She can feel that restlessness in you. You all have done a project together, the Uninvited, and this is your wife's very first movie. I want to tell people a little bit about the Uninvited. So the story centers on a single evening in the Hollywood Hills. Rose is the main character. She's a former stage actress turned reluctant housewife. And you play her husband, Sammy. He's a Hollywood talent agent. He's like a, you know, bombastic kind of like, guy. And the two of you throw this small but high stakes party at this lavish home to impress Sammy's biggest client. It's a hotshot director. One of the things your wife does in the writing is she illuminates really, like, this idea of how wealth and status really can't shut out the realities of life that, like, all of the things still happen to this family, despite the fact that they're wealthy and they're in this big Hollywood home. And this woman who comes that's older and is confused, she represents so many things, it all just kind of comes crashing in.

[Walton Goggins]

I think one of the most important takeaways for the movie, for me, is that the Uninvited is actually an invitation to live your life more meaningfully. And that's what all of these characters do. They have money, but as they say in the movie, most of this is borrowed anyway. They're just renting. They bought a house that they'll never be able to pay for. It's just a facade. You know, they're on a treadmill like everyone else. And then this woman shows up at their house and is the great disruptor to, you know, shake all of these people out of walking through life, you know, numbly, without. Without kind of experiencing everything that's kind of going on around you. And. And she's a great catalyst for change for all these people. And it happened to us.

[Tonya Moseley]

It's based on. Yeah, like a real story almost.

[Walton Goggins]

We were a party that we were throwing at our house, and a woman showed up in her 80s and buzzer and said, I need to get in my house, please. And. Yeah, so it's predicated on that. It's. It's a great story. People have really responded to it. I'm really proud of my wife.

[Tonya Moseley]

But it's an independent film, right? You've got Pedro Pascal, there's some. Some big names.

[Walton Goggins]

Lois Smith, Elizabeth Rezer. Yeah, some. Some. Some really, really great people.

[Tonya Moseley]

You know, these are life experiences, but I can't help but think about how they're infused in what you do, because you're wanting to have these human connections with people and understand people. And one of the things you're just known for, you're taking on comedic acting. You're taking on serious roles. You're inhabiting people that are characters. They seem like singular forces, but there's something that you are pulling from these different experiences that. Are they showing up in the work that you do? Because I feel like it is.

[Walton Goggins]

I. I think so. Thank you very much for saying that, first and foremost. But I do the art of storytelling, the job of storytelling, the privilege of storytelling, for me, it is a religion. And the way that I was raised, the people that raised me and their empathy for the world around them and for their fellow men and women is how I approach every job that I do. I I just. I love getting close to these people that. That I get to play, that I've had the opportunity to play and. And understanding the world from their point of view. But that's always been with me since I was a kid, because that's how I was raised and so forth.

[Tonya Moseley]

And it's so emotional. And I just, like, every time you get to this point, you start. You start to get emotional. I'm just wanting to know, what is it?

[Walton Goggins]

Okay, well, I think about the shield, you know, and I think about the ending of that, and I think about the tragedy of this person who was under the influence of this guy, Vic Mackie, so brilliantly played by Chiklis. And I think about the way that his life ended, and I think about him being on the run, and I think about the conversation that he had once he found love in his life and he was his own man without much time left to live because, like, he found peace and something to live for. And I go right back there. Every single time I talk about it. I look at Boyd Crowder's journey, and it is not so different from my own. It is a dude who is just trying to get out of poverty and reinvent himself, not so that other people can see him in a certain way, so that he can see himself in a different way. And his whole journey is something that is so profoundly intimate to me, just like Rick in the White Lotus, Every single thing. The role in the Hateful Eight, Chris Mannix is dying on the bed thinking about, what does it take to change the heart and mind of one white dude? What does that mean, really? And all of these people, they mean something to me. And what's so exciting about my life is that I'm not done. There are more people for me to meet. Whether I get it right or whether I don't get it right is irrelevant to me. I will always strive to understand these people with the level of empathy and curiosity that was instilled in me from my childhood and that I moved through life with.

[Tonya Moseley]

You mentioned Boyd Crowder, and that's from the show Justified. It debuted in 2010. It ran for six seasons. Your character, Boyd, he's this charismatic outlaw. And you star alongside Timothy olyphant, who plays U.S. marshal Raelyn Givens. And both of you are shaped by the same world, but, of course, you have different outcomes. Well, the scene that I want to play is from the end of the series, and I want to play it because it kind of goes back to something you're talking about when you keep going back to home, like the foundation of who you are. So at the end of the series when Boyd is in prison and Raelyn comes to deliver some news to him face to face, you all say this thing and your character speaks first. Let's listen.

[Walton Goggins]

Can I ask you one question before you go? As long as you understand if it annoys me, I'm just gonna hang up. Scout's honor. Tramble Penitentiary is a long way from Miami. Railing. Now, you could have called the warden, could have sent word to my lawyer, ask him why I came, thought it was news that should be delivered in person. That's only reason. After all these long years rounding Kidmans, that's the only reason. And I suppose if I allow myself to be sentimental despite all the that has occurred, there is one thing I wander back to we dug coal together.

[Tonya Moseley]

That's right.

[D]

Huh?

[Tonya Moseley]

That's my guest today, Walton Goggins from the FX series Justified. It's the statement that echoes through the show that we dug coal together.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah.

[Tonya Moseley]

The people, we move on, we go in different directions, but there's that tie that always holds us together, you know, always. Some of the things you said about yourself when you were young are all the things you shared. But there's also, was there a moment in time when there could have been another path for you, when you got in trouble, when you got into some things or people that you've left behind that you dug coal together with but have taken another path?

[Walton Goggins]

I mean, we dug coal as a metaphor for so many things in our lives. Right. But, yeah, there were people that I grew up with that died or friends that just went a different way. I don't think that that was ever, ever gonna happen for me. I don't think I had a choice.

[Tonya Moseley]

If you're just joining us, I'm talking to actor Walton Goggins. We'll continue our conversation after a short break. This is FRESH air. Great conversation makes for a great party. But how do you ask the questions that really make the room come alive? Well, here at Life Kit, we got you. What is a path you almost took but didn't? On our latest episode, how to ask the magical questions that'll make your party sparkle. Listen to the Life Kit podcast from NPR.

[Walton Goggins]

When Malcolm Gladwell presented NPR's Throughline podcast with a Peabody Award, he praised it for its historical and moral clarity. On Throughline, we take you back in time to the origins of what's in the news, like presidential power, aging and evangelicalism. Time travel with us every week on the throughline podcast from NPR.

[Tonya Moseley]

As NPR's daily economics podcast, the Indicator has been asking businesses how tariffs are affecting their bottom line. I paid 800,000 today.

[Walton Goggins]

You paid $800,000 in tariffs today?

[Tonya Moseley]

Yes. Wow. And what that means for your bottom line? Listen to the Indicator from Planet Money. Find us wherever you get your podcasts. I want to talk a little bit about Baby Billy from the Righteous Gemstones. I just Talked to Danny McBride, the Creator. I know you all have now become dear friends. I know Baby Billy is like a composite of a lot of different people. You and Danny McBride went into a room together, and you kind of created this person. I need to know more about where you got that from and, like, where. The accent, all of it. It's like somebody I know. It's like my uncle and Miss Mississippi, you know, like, get over here. Like that. Where did you get that from?

[Walton Goggins]

Well, you know, I really. And I. And I genuinely mean this. I've said this so many times, but I don't believe in playing a character. I don't believe in making choices. I don't sit in a room and go, oh, is it. Is Baby Billy right here? Is Baby Billy here? Like, where is he? How does he walk? I. I don't really think about those things. I don't stand in front of a mirror and go, whoa, wouldn't it be interesting? Like, from a cerebral, kind of analytical point of view. You just put on the costume and put on the clothes, and then you're just that person. I just spent so much time in my imagination imagining these people are real.

[Tonya Moseley]

But they come from. Probably.

[Walton Goggins]

They come. Absolutely. So, okay, my father. There's an.

[Tonya Moseley]

A bit of dad.

[Walton Goggins]

Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Just kind of like big, flamboyant personality that can just fill up a room. And my father's an amazing guy and a really entertaining guy. He was a tough guy for a long time when I was growing up, but he's a very, very, very interesting person. You know, I'm Walton Sanders Goggins Jr. And my half brother is Walton Sanders Goggins III. You know, my father is probably by definition, you know, a clinical narcissist, but he's also. He's a good man. My father has a really good heart. And like all of us, he just did the best he could, you know, with his trauma. And I do have a lot of forgiveness in my heart. And, God, not even forgiveness, just understanding at this point.

[Tonya Moseley]

The father son relationship was a prominent through line in the White Lotus. Your character, Rick, went to Thailand in search of the person who he thought was responsible for his father's death. It's really interesting when you talk about, like this place that you've come to with your own father and that character, our. But what was it like to be a part of such a series on the other side of it that really takes on these real serious societal issues through these very dysfunctional people?

[Walton Goggins]

Well, you know, I can tell you that my own relationship with my own father, I was very angry at my own father. And it was the big that I had to move through that I had to move through. And it wasn't all gone, you know, like a miracle in that moment. But it did open the door and it did allow me to begin that process and it did speed it up because I I wanted to have that forgiveness. And Rick is for the first time in his life, two weeks before this show started, he is someone who is, you know, in a moment of doing inventory in his whole life, in a in a sober moment, looks around and says, how did I get here? Why am I here? Why am I living this life? And there in his mind is one person that is responsible for that that permanently altered the course of his life in a very negative way. And Mike White, with all of these stories, but this one in particular, he brings such a deeply nuanced observation of these experiences in the world, and he's able to tell them with humor, but with pathos and with anger, you know, in a way that very few people can.

[Tonya Moseley]

Walton Goggins, this has been such a pleasure to talk with you.

[Walton Goggins]

It has been such a pleasure to be in your company. Thank you so much for this conversation, truly.

[Tonya Moseley]

Walton Goggin stars in the new film the Uninvited. It's now available for streaming on demand and in select theaters. After a short break, TV critic David Biancooli reviews the two part HBO documentary Pee Wee as himself. This is FRESH AIR. Politics is a lot these days. I'm Sarah McCammon, a co host of the NPR Politics podcast, and I'll be the first to tell you, what happens happens in Washington definitely demands some decoding. That's why our show makes politics as easy as possible to wrap your head around. Join us as we make politics make sense on the NPR Politics podcast, available wherever you get your podcasts.

[Capital One Ad]

This message comes from NPR sponsor Shopify. No idea where to sell? Shopify puts you in control of every sales channel. It is the commerce platform, revolutionizing millions of businesses worldwide. Whether you're a garage entrepreneur or IPO ready, Shopify is the only tool you need to start run and and grow your business without the struggle. Once you've reached your audience, Shopify has the Internet's best converting checkout to help you turn them from browsers to buyers. Go to Shopify.com NPR to take your business to the next level. Today.

[Tonya Moseley]

Short Wave thinks of science as an invisible force showing up in your everyday life, powering the food you eat, the medicine you use, the tech in your pocket. Science is approachable because it's already part of your life. Come explore these connections on the shortwave podcast from npr. Paul Reubens, the actor best known for his alter ego of Pee Wee Herman, died in 2023 after a private six year battle with cancer. Near the end of his life, Rubens collaborated on a documentary, sitting for 40 hours of intimate interviews with director Matt Wolf. The result of that effort is the two part HBO documentary Pee Wee as Himself, which premieres Friday, May 23rd. TV critic David Biancooli has this review.

[E]

When Paul Reubens speaks directly to the camera in Pee Wee as himself, framed tightly by the lens and looking frail but still feisty, it's as though he's delivering his last will and testament. And he says as much.

[D]

This is such a dumb thing to say, but you know, death is just so final. You know that to be able to like get your message in at the last minute or at some point is incredible.

[E]

So what is his message in this new documentary? On one level, Rubin sets out to explain his artistic process and the inspirations and motivations behind the character of Pee Wee Herman. On another level, he explores what he gained and lost by refusing to be seen or interviewed as himself. For the whole time Pee Wee was starring in movies or television. And most delicately and intriguingly, Paul Rubens provides his point of view about things that rarely were discussed by him during his lifetime, from his private life and sexuality to his infamous arrest on charges of public indecency. In covering all this ground, Rubens opens up his pack rat archive of personal photos and home movies. Director Matt Wolf interviews other people as well, such as Lorraine Newman, who worked with Rubens in the LA improv group the Groundlings, and directors Tim Burton and Judd Apatow, and several actors who appeared in the long running CBS children's series Pee Wee's Playhouse, including Laurence Fishburne, Natasha Lyonne and S. Apatha Merkerson. By the time Reubens took his Pee Wee character to Saturday morning TV in 1986, he says he knew exactly what he wanted to do, and Merkerson says she appreciated it.

[D]

I just felt right from the get go, something that I could do that could be very important and very subliminal would be to just make the show very inclusive and not comment on it in any way.

[Walton Goggins]

Captain Kangaroo, Soupy Sails, Howdy Doody, you know, none of those shows did I.

[Tonya Moseley]

See myself reflected so that I had the opportunity to be a part of.

[Walton Goggins]

A show that young black kids would.

[Tonya Moseley]

See and go, oh, there's an image of me here that means a lot to me.

[E]

The road to Pee Wee's Playhouse, an utterly brilliant TV show, is relayed by Pee Wee's alter ego in bursts of quick but clear developmental insights. The shows he watched as a kid.

[D]

I was absolutely transformed in such a strong way by so many things in early television. I wanted to jump into my TV and live in that world.

[Walton Goggins]

Fake hands, what time is it?

[D]

My favorite kids show were absolutely like Howdy Doody, Captain Kangaroo and the Mickey Mouse Club.

[E]

His inspirations for the name Pee Wee Herman.

[D]

I had a little harmonica, a little tiny harmonica this big that said Pee Wee on it. And I thought, Pee Wee. And I knew this kid when I was little who was like this crazy, like really loud, nutty, and his last name was Herman. And I thought Pee Wee Herman sounds so weird that it sounds real. It just didn't sound like a made up name at all. Like Cary Grant or like Rock Hudson or like a made up name. It sounded Pee Wee Herman. Like, if you were making up a name, wouldn't you make up a better name than that?

[E]

And noting the meteoric rise of Pee Wee from an improv bit at the Ground lane to the star of his own stage show, movie and TV series, his view of the effects of stardom on his own carefully cultivated privacy.

[D]

If I was conflicted about sexuality, fame was so much more complicated. By the time I realized that you trade in anonymity and privacy for success, the ink had dried on my back with the devil.

[E]

All of that imploded in 1991 after an event reported by CBS anchor Dan.

[Tonya Moseley]

Rather in Sarasota, Florida. Actor Paul Rubins, better known as TV's Pee Wee Herman, is free on bail after being charged with indecent exposure in an adult movie theater. CBS announced today that under the circumstances, the network is dropping scheduled reruns of the program, Pee Wee's Playhouse.

[E]

Paul Rubens addresses all of this, frankly, taking great pains to explain his point of view. Yet that's not the most compelling or illuminating part of this documentary. The part that reveals the most, especially about Paul Reubens as an artist and a person, is his constant tug of war with the documentary's director, Matt Wolf. At times, Rubens is goofing around during the interviews and being Coyote. Other times, he tells Wolf he doesn't trust him and would rather get his message out himself without Wolf's editorial interference. Pee Wee as himself makes clear that Paul Reubens was a control freak of sorts. And at the end, Rubens finally gets in the last word unfiltered. It's worth hearing, and for this HBO documentary, it's just the right coda.

[Tonya Moseley]

David Biancooli is a professor of television studies at Rowan University. He reviewed the new documentary Pee Wee as Himself, premiering tomorrow on HBO with Terry Gross. I'm Tanya Mosley. On the Indicator from Planet Money podcast, we're here to help you make sense.

[Walton Goggins]

Of the economic news from Trump tariffs.

[Capital One Ad]

It's called in game theory a trigger.

[Tonya Moseley]

Strategy, or sometimes called grim trigger, which.

[Walton Goggins]

Sort of has a cowboy esque ring.

[Tonya Moseley]

To it to what exactly a sovereign wealth fund is.

[Walton Goggins]

For insight, every weekday, listen to NPR's.

[Tonya Moseley]

The Indicator from Planet Money. Conductor Robert Franz says, a good melody.

[Walton Goggins]

Captures our attention and then it moves you through time. Music is architecture in time. If you encounter, engage in the moment with what you're listening to, you do lose a sense of the time around.

[Tonya Moseley]

You, how we experience time. That's on the TED Radio Hour from NPR.