Will Arnett (3:41)

I think I'm getting a divorce. What tipped me off was that I'm living in an apartment on my own. Yeah. And my wife and kids don't live there. That was probably the biggest clue.

Terry Gross (4:03)

Will Arnett, welcome back to FRESH air. Thank you for coming today. And that scene is so good. It's so much fun to watch. You feel so uncomfortable and you're actually very funny even though you're totally insecure and unprepared to be doing standup at that point in your story. So I know in preparation you went to comedy club open mic nights. Did you stay in the audience or perform?

Will Arnett (4:28)

No, I performed. I went to the Comedy Cellar almost every night for about six weeks and performed under the name of Alex Novak, kind of in an attempt to understand what it was like A, to do stand up because I'm not A, stand up and I'd never done it before, and B, to see what it was like to do it through the eyes of somebody who's never performed in any capacity really. So that was kind of that was the assignment for me.

Terry Gross (5:01)

Why didn't people recognize you?

Will Arnett (5:04)

Well, I think some did, Terry. Some people recognized me and were confused as to what I was doing because I would they'd introduce me as Alex Novak and I'd sort of reinforce that, say, hi, I'm Alex Novak, and people would laugh nervously. The people who did recognize me, the people who didn't recognize me, I guess was just because they're not fans of my films or TV shows. Certainly people were, you know, a lot of my set, especially that first set that you played in the clip where I'm talking about getting divorced, I think it did confuse people and people would be Googling me in real time trying to figure out what was going on, thinking like, oh, wait, I didn't know this guy got married again.

Terry Gross (5:46)

I'm wearing that again.

Will Arnett (5:47)

Yeah.

Terry Gross (5:48)

So did you try to be good or try to be stumbly?

Will Arnett (5:51)

Well, I tried to be sensitive to the material. So I was using sets that we had written for the film. So I go out and I do the first set and then during the day I'd be at home a couple blocks away in New York, rewriting the sets and trying to figure out really trying to get it to a place that worked for the context that we were looking for, which is this guy who's never done it before. So I. And I'd rework it and rework it and then, you know, one night I might go out and go around the corner to the underground, all part of the comedy cellar, and do the third set and then go around the corner downstairs, the underground and do the first set again. And just keep working on these various sets, but always trying to track, you know, his development as a standup and so that all of those pieces work and not just his development as a standup because those sets are also affected where Alex is in our story and where he is with his relationship with his estranged wife and all these things. And they all affect how he performs and how he is on stage.

Terry Gross (7:04)

You know, the kind of story this is about two people who are dissatisfied with their lives at the moment and are like looking for a new sense of identity which they feel they're lacking. Why did you want to like tell the story from a more middle aged point of view? And I know it's based on a real comic and, you know, a British comic who I think is well known in England, but not here. John Bishop is his name. What appealed to you about the idea of a middle aged couple looking to like find new identities and find some satisfaction in their work?

Will Arnett (7:45)

First of all, when. When I met John Bishop and he told me this story of how he became a stand up and you know, he is a very successful stand up in the uk. He's a really funny guy. He's a really funny stand up. I was drawn less to the idea of him kind of becoming successful out of nowhere and more to the idea of he found a thing that allowed him to kind of reconnect to himself and his wife. He had gotten so far down the road in his life and that he and his partner, his wife Mel, he described that there was no big event, that there was nothing that they had just simply, you know, you can say whatever you want, grew apart or whatever, but they weren't communicating. And they were frustrated in their lives and they were frustrated with their lot, but they didn't have the language to even talk to each other anymore. And that was the thing that really got me. So we ended up, you know, we focused less on in our story. Alex does not become a famous standup. John told me recently that for him, you know, that becoming a successful standup was really the icing on the cake of which which was reconnecting with his wife, with Mel. And so that that stuck with me. I don't think it's uncommon. I think it's a real reflection of what a lot of people who are middle aged, I guess, do go through. And you get. I think that sometimes you get resigned to the idea that this is your lot and this is what it's going to be. And sometimes it's really a matter of you need to find the language or to start to really connect with who you are.

Terry Gross (9:32)

There's a scene, and I don't think I'm giving too much away here. When they're trying to stay together or get back together, where your character asks his wife, he said, like, I know this about couples therapy that, like, one of the standard questions is, tell me something about myself that you hate about me. And I think, like, that's the kind of thing that could really go bad. I can imagine that becoming a real nightmare. I can also see a bit of self reflection being the result of that and self knowledge that you weren't aware of before. I'm wondering if you've ever tried that approach and how did it go?

Will Arnett (10:19)

I think that there is, from my own life at this stage, I'm much more willing to be honest about where I am. And certainly Bradley and I, this is something that we talk about, which it's really important. Something that maybe you sort of avoid when you're younger, I think, and as you get older, you just kind of. You get to the point where, like, you might as well just say and be honest. And you have to allow people to have their own reaction to what you say. And sometimes you. So to instigate that, you have to say, like, all right, tell me the thing. Like, just what is the thing that I do that drives you crazy? Just say it. And at the risk of blowing it all apart. And I think that's really important. I think I'm much more willing to get in the deep water now myself than I was when I was a younger man, for sure.

Terry Gross (11:18)

I'd like to offer an example of that from having heard you Talk about this on Smartless, your podcast with Sean Hayes and Jason Bateman. And Bradley Cooper was the guest on this episode. And, of course, Bradley Cooper directed your new film, is this Thing On? So Bradley Cooper had been talking about how he really admired how angry some of your jokes were that you would joke with people and say things that, you know, sounded angry in general or angry at them, but you were so funny and you knew these people so well that it was just, like, great fun. So he figured, okay, I'm gonna fit in by doing something similar. Except it didn't come off that way. It just came off as, like, really rude. And so what I'd like to do is play a clip from that episode of Smartless and hear what Bradley Cooper had to say. And then I want to ask you your perspective on it. Okay, okay. Okay, here it is.

Bradley Cooper (12:20)

And he was like, hey, man, do you remember we had dinner the other night? He goes, how'd you think that went? And I was like. And I remember being at the dinner thinking I was so funny. And I thought these two guys who are my heroes were so. Thought that I was so funny. I don't know if you remember this, Will. And you're like. I was like, oh, I thought it was great. I thought I was killing. Hey, man, you were. And Will Arnett, Tony, he's like, you were a real man. And I was like, what? He's like, yeah. And by the way, have your dogs gone out to the bathroom? And I was like, what? What time is it? It's four o'.

Will Arnett (12:47)

Clock.

Bradley Cooper (12:48)

Oh, no, I think they have to go to the bathroom. They're literally standing by the door. And that was, like, the first time I ever realized I had a problem with drugs and alcohol. And I'll just never forget it. And I was like, oh, the guy that I think is doing mean humor is telling me, like, the truth about that. And it was like, it changed my entire life. And that moment was when I stopped pursuing this sort of mean humor thing.

Capital One Announcer (13:09)

Wow.

Bradley Cooper (13:10)

Yeah. I'll never for. Do you remember that, Will?

Will Arnett (13:12)

I do remember that, yeah.

Terry Gross (13:14)

Okay, so that was Bradley Cooper on the podcast Smartless, which Will Arnett co hosts with Sean Hayes and Jason Bateman. Were you surprised he told that story? And I really want to hear your perspective on it. And I'm curious, like, what made you think that it would go okay and be helpful? Because there's the flip side of that coin. It could go really terribly, and he could just be very resentful of you and angry at you and just Kind of dig in deeper in defiance.

Will Arnett (13:48)

Well, yeah, I mean, it saved his.

Terry Gross (13:50)

Life, but you don't know the outcome when you go into it.

Will Arnett (13:53)

Well, it's funny. I mean, I don't know if it saved his life. First of all, he did it all. I didn't save his life. I did not know he was going to bring it up, of course, and I was surprised. But I'm also not surprised because Bradley is somebody who he does sort of spend, especially as we've gotten older. He's one of those people who tries to be as open as he can about his experience and honest as he can about where he's at. So having said that, I think that is an example of that day when I went into his place and we had that conversation. I had to be willing to risk it all because I love him and I wanted him to be okay. And I know what it takes, that sometimes you have to, you know, be brutally honest, within reason. I don't want to hurt him. I don't want to. I'm not there to judge him for what he's doing. I'm there to be as honest as I can because I want him to figure out a way. And luckily for me, but also mostly for him, he was open enough to the idea of this, and that's really a testament to him and his ability to recognize in that moment. It's got nothing to do with me. I'm just a messenger. And I'm just. You know, the only reason I did that is because I've been a beneficiary of so many great people in my life, in incredible relationships that I have, especially with a lot of great men in my life who've been honest and loving to me.

Terry Gross (15:28)

Your voice, I don't think it's just me. The way I hear it, your voice has gotten deeper over the years. Am I right about that?

Will Arnett (15:35)

Yeah, probably, I think. Has yours?

Terry Gross (15:38)

Oh, my voice has completely changed. Yeah.

Will Arnett (15:40)

Yeah. I mean, I realize. Yeah. Really? You think it's gotten higher?

Terry Gross (15:47)

No, no. In the past. It was when I started.

Will Arnett (15:50)

Oh, yeah? Yeah. Cause I noticed it with Howard Stern, who I've known for a long time, and I listened to some old clips and, like, Howard's point. Yeah, I think that that's what happens. But certainly, yeah, it has. I think it has gone deeper.

Terry Gross (16:04)

Were you a smoker?

Will Arnett (16:07)

Well, I mean. No comment. No, I. Who do you work for, Terry?

Terry Gross (16:13)

The tobacco industry. So is how you're cast differently with the lower voice?

Will Arnett (16:21)

Well, you know, when I was, I think I always had A kind of a gravelly or whatever you want to call it. Sandpapery. Some people might call it annoying voice.

Terry Gross (16:33)

I would not.

Will Arnett (16:35)

There are people. And so when I was younger, when I first moved to New York, I looked much younger than my age. I had a sort of a baby face, weirdly enough. I knew back then that it was going to. That it didn't quite match and it was maybe gonna affect getting roles. At least that's what I would tell myself if I didn't get a role because of my voice. So it took a while to kind of grow, I think, grow into it a little bit.

Terry Gross (17:06)

I think your voice probably helped you get all the voiceover work. That.

Will Arnett (17:09)

Sure.

Terry Gross (17:10)

That was basically the way you made a living for several years.

Will Arnett (17:15)

Yes.

Terry Gross (17:16)

Yeah. And so you were so funny with Conan o' Brien on his TBS show. And, you know, you're both so funny. So I want to play a clip from that show and that goes back a few years to 2021. And you were talking about your voiceover work, and then you demonstrated some of your voices. So. Okay, I. And we'll hear Andy Richter, Conan's sidekick on that show, say a few words during the clip. So here's you and Conan Bryant in 2021.

Andy Richter (17:53)

You've got the best pipes in the business. His voice.

Will Arnett (17:56)

Thank you.

Andy Richter (17:57)

Is so incredible. Yeah, I try to get voiceover work, and I'm like, buy this product.

Will Arnett (18:02)

Yeah, yeah.

Andy Richter (18:05)

That's the response I get.

Will Arnett (18:06)

I don't get.

Andy Richter (18:07)

Well, they also like the edge the of, to be more specific. Yeah, I know. That's true. That was a little bit. But that's obviously for Granny Smith apples.

Will Arnett (18:13)

Right?

Andy Richter (18:15)

Granny Smith apples are real good. No, I do voiceover is a great thing, and I do a lot. And actually, to be honest, coming here today, I'm kind of behind on a couple of jobs. Would you mind while I'm here, because you guys are mic'd up and stuff. Would you mind if I just did a couple. You wanna do some voiceover? Yeah, that's okay. Don't worry about it. I don't think it's appropriate. I just have lots of equipment here, and I brought my. My setup with me. Okay, that's ridiculous. I brought my setup. I can't believe I didn't see that back then. This just a little. So you're gonna just do a voiceover or two. I'm just gonna do a couple things and just stay within three, two. You might wanna plug the headphones in. Innovative, creative, and tough as nails. That's the American Spirit. And that's the all new GMC Sierra 1500 pickup truck.

Various NPR Sponsors (19:04)

Yeah.

Andy Richter (19:04)

Okay, we're just gonna keep rolling here. Cause we're rolling.

Will Arnett (19:09)

Let's roll another one.

Terry Gross (19:10)

Rolling, rolling. Here we go.

Andy Richter (19:11)

Hey, girl, I love your smile. Crest White strips. Yeah, that's good. We're banging them out. We're banging them out. We're done. Oh, we're not done here.

Will Arnett (19:20)

Hang on.

Andy Richter (19:21)

We're still rolling here. Here we go. Three, two, one.

Will Arnett (19:25)

Fleniman's Racist Butter.

Andy Richter (19:28)

Spread it all around. Wait a minute. That couldn't be a product. Yep. Is that butter for racist people or is the butter itself racist? I don't know. I do not know, and I don't care as long as the check clears. Okay, so let's.

Terry Gross (19:45)

That's so great. And like, the first one we heard was for GMC trucks. And you've done a lot or you did a lot of voiceovers for them. And, you know, it's done in the style of like, a rugged man who likes driving over tough terrain and wants a vehicle that can handle it. So you have the voice for that. But do you ever feel like that kind of man?

Will Arnett (20:12)

Great question, Terry. It's not necessarily how I see myself, but, yeah, I still work with. I still do the. I'm the voice of GMC trucks. And it's something I'm really proud of. It's been a long time. I've been doing the ads for GMC since 1998.

Terry Gross (20:33)

That long?

Will Arnett (20:34)

Yeah. I've been the voice of GMC truck since actually, this is the anniversary month, December of 1998.

Terry Gross (20:42)

Never realized that was you.

Will Arnett (20:43)

Yeah, yeah. Well, because my voice changed. Changed from doing those commercials maybe, but I do. It is something that. Yeah, there's something that I. That I like. First of all, I love. I love working with the brand. And they are great trucks. I mean, look, they're. Terry, they're professional grade. They are professional grade.

Terry Gross (21:06)

Yeah. Does it hurt your throat to do that?

Will Arnett (21:09)

No. The only time that it really got strained was in that way where it didn't hurt, but I had to kind of be careful was when I was doing the LEGO animated films, and we did two LEGO films and a LEGO Batman film standalone film. And doing the voice of LEGO Batman for extended periods of time was stressful. So I would book a. I'd do a session, and then I'd have to make sure that I had nothing to do for the rest of the day and basically wouldn't talk because it was, you know, it was hours in there going through the script and doing stuff and as this as Batman.

Terry Gross (21:50)

My guest is Will Arnett. He co wrote and stars in the new film Is this Thing On? We'll continue the interview and our TV critic David Biancooli will look back on the year in TV after a short break. I'm Terry Gross and this is FRESH air.

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Terry Gross (23:33)

This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross. Let's get back to my interview with Will Arnett. He co wrote and stars in the new film Is this Thing On? Which was directed by his longtime friend Bradley Cooper, who also co stars in the film. Arnett is best known for his starring roles in Arrested Development, BoJack Horseman and the Lego Batman Movie. He also co hosts the comedy podcast Smartless with his friends Jason Bateman, who also starred in Arrested Development, and Sean Hayes, who has a small part in Is this Thing On? When we left off, we were talking about his voiceover work. In addition to BoJack and Lego Batman, he's done the voices of characters in Monsters vs Aliens as well as voiceovers for countless ads. How about your voice on BoJack Horseman, where you play? This is a world of showbiz with animals and birds portraying the characters. And you're a horse who, when the series starts is like a washed up Actor who was briefly famous for his role, what sounds like a pretty bad sitcom. And he sits at home in the first episode watching videos of his old show. And he's bitter. He drinks too much. And it's such a funny series, like, satirizing everybody in show business. The agents, the directors, the actors, and all of their insecurities. Did you do something with your voice for that character?

Will Arnett (25:03)

No. It's funny because that's one of those ones where I've had people say, wow, you really sound like BoJack. And I'm like, well, yeah, it's my voice.

Terry Gross (25:13)

And you wanted BoJack to sound more human probably, too, because he's already not human, so you have to humanize him.

Will Arnett (25:19)

Yeah, that's exactly right. There's enough going on with the fact that he's a horse and that it's animated. So I think it was important to just try to the way he spoke to be much more naturalistic.

Terry Gross (25:30)

Did parts of BoJack's life remind you of your own when you were at a low point?

Will Arnett (25:35)

No. And it's funny. That's a question I get all the time. There were times when people would. I remember, like, there's, like, photos of my house went online, and people would say, like, it just look. He looks like BoJack's house. And I just think that's so absurd. There's a lot of, like, retrofitting from people going on about BoJack and trying to hang it on my life, and they're very, very different. I love making that show. Raphael. Bob Waksberg's an incredible writer. The guy who created it, just an amazing guy, and wonderfully written, and I loved every moment of it. But it's had this, like, sort of strange afterlife. And I think a lot of that is due to the fact that a lot of people responded to it, which is amazing. But I also think there's this kind of rush to people to try to connect dots that aren't there.

Terry Gross (26:32)

Sure. We always do that when we project a character's life onto the actor who's portraying that. And I do that maybe too much when I interview actors, you know, because I always want to kind of connect the life and the work to see what created the sensibility that we love in the performer. And, you know, I think I probably hit a lot of wrong notes in trying to do that.

Will Arnett (26:54)

Well, no, it's not wrong. I think that that's natural, but, I mean, that's the work, right? Like, that's the job is to try to figure out, certainly, for. As a performer. You are trying to find moments where you can connect with it, but at the same time, the job is to try to figure out a way to find your way in to portray that character. And it's funny. It's like, I did a show, Arrested Development, for many years, where I played a character who's completely untethered to reality.

Terry Gross (27:24)

I've heard of that show.

Will Arnett (27:27)

And so I played a character called Job Bluth. He's a failed illusionist, and he's very. Again, like, as I said, untethered. And he doesn't know how to live in this world that we live in. And it's funny that people go, oh, yeah. You know, there are parts of BoJack I'm sure. Is that your. Is that you? And I'm like, well, why don't they say that about Job or a character I played on 30 Rock or in who knows why?

Terry Gross (27:57)

Because it was more absurdist. There's more absurdist.

Will Arnett (28:01)

I mean, obviously, it's about an actor, too. And also, BoJack was an actor.

Terry Gross (28:05)

Yeah, exactly.

Will Arnett (28:07)

So I do get that. But apart from that, it's just.

Terry Gross (28:12)

No, the recent development was, like, your big breakthrough, right?

Will Arnett (28:16)

100%. 100%.

Terry Gross (28:18)

How did it change your life?

Will Arnett (28:21)

How long is this program?

Terry Gross (28:22)

I'm looking at the clock in every.

Will Arnett (28:24)

Way, every possible way. Yeah. I mean, that was 2003, and I'd been living in New York for about 13 years at that point. And leading up to Arrested, the few years leading up, I'd done a bunch of pilots. I'd had a series that went on to air and aired twice and then was canceled. And I'd had tons of frustrations like a lot of other performers. My story's not that different. Just it's tough out there, et cetera. And Arrested Development came along and really changed my life.

Terry Gross (28:59)

So when you got the script, however much you got for Arrested Development before the audition, did you have any sense of how to play the character? It's such a quirky way that you play him, and, you know, he's kind of, like, lost in his own world. He uses his, like, little magic tricks in some totally inappropriate ways. Like, this is not the time for you to, like, barge and do a trick. So, you know, your performance, the way you like, you shaped the words on the page and embodied it physically. Just being given a script, it's probably hard to do that without all the other actors there and without really understanding how unusual a series it was and how off kilter the comedy was.

Will Arnett (29:47)

Well, yeah, I'll take it a step Further, I didn't even have the benefit of reading the full script. I was given sort of a slight character breakdown, I suppose that didn't really say how he behaved. It just kind of said who he was. He was the eldest of four kids of this family that had fallen on hard times, that their father had lost all their money, et cetera. And I was sent these sides. So the thing that I grabbed onto and I was really lucky, you know, every once in a while something comes along that you just, there's something about it that kind of grabs you. And there's a line, there's a scene where my character Job enters a scene where the character of Michael, played by Jason Bateman, is talking to the captain of this ship. And Michael says to Job something to the effect of, you know, how are you, Job? And on the page it's written, incredible. I'm having an incredible year. And it was so, I don't know why it was so funny to me. I just kind of got it for whatever reason. And I just remember, and I did it in the audition and subsequently in the pilot. I just understood the bravado of that. Who says that, right? About their when they're asked, how are you? And I just thought, what a kind of sociopathic blowhard goes, incredible, I'm having an incredible year. Right? It says so much. It's clearly somebody who is covering up for a lot of deep pain. And I just got it. And that was it. It was that line that was my entry point for the character of Job.

Terry Gross (31:39)

My guest is Will Arnett. He stars on the new film Is this Thing On? We'll be right back after a short break. This is FRESH air.

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Terry Gross (32:23)

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Terry Gross (33:05)

This is FRESH air. Let's get back to my interview with Will Arnett. He co wrote and stars in the new movie Is this Thing On? Let's talk about your formative years. Your father, James Arnett or Jim Arnett, I don't know which, Both. Okay. So here's a graduate at Harvard and he was for a few years president and CEO of Molson Breweries. So when you I know a lot of people, they look at their parents lives and they think, I want a different life. And your life is very different. You're both very successful, but you went in an opposite direction, not corporate, not law. And it's a more artistic world. Did you feel like he led an interesting life but you wanted a different life, or did you see his life as it must be uncomfortable to be asked this question when your father's alive. So I realized I don't want you to I don't want to ruin your relationship with your father.

Will Arnett (34:04)

No, no, no, I'll do that.

Terry Gross (34:10)

Yeah, you'll ruin it yourself or you'll.

Will Arnett (34:14)

Ask, I don't need any help. No, no. My dad, you know, I have a lot of respect for what my dad did. My dad came from both his parents were teachers and his dad at one point was a teacher in a one room schoolhouse in Manitoba, not even in Winnipeg. And my dad worked really hard and he got everywhere on his own merits. You know, he got into Harvard on his own. He became a partner at this law firm, Steichman Elliott in Toronto, on his own as a kid from Winnipeg. And he didn't have a fancy background. So I've always respected how much of a sort of a self made guy he is. And he's always, you know, my dad said to me once, I asked him once years ago, you know, he's long since retired. And I said to him, I said, why didn't you move to the States because you could have made a lot more money in the corporate world as a, you know, you see how CEOs are compensated in this country and how absurd it is. And he said because I have an obligation to give back to the system that allowed me to come up and that's the kind of guy he is.

Terry Gross (35:27)

You went to a prep boarding school and you were expelled for being a troublemaker. What kind of trouble did you get into?

Will Arnett (35:37)

A lot of it was, Terry, I hate. I'm loath to admit a lot of it was smoking related.

Terry Gross (35:42)

What were you smoking?

Will Arnett (35:44)

Cigarettes.

Terry Gross (35:44)

Oh, okay.

Will Arnett (35:45)

Yeah. I was never, like. I was never like a real sort of weed guy. It was smoking kind of bad grades because I was goofing off, defying curfews, all stuff like that. And there were a group of us, and I think that they just. At a certain point, people say, oh, you were kicked out. And I always maintained that I was asked not to return.

Terry Gross (36:11)

A great distinction.

Will Arnett (36:12)

Yeah, there's a real distinction there, Terry. But so, yeah, it never really. It's funny. I went to boarding school when I was 12, and again, my dad, who came up through public school system in Winnipeg, my dad was really. He was a little reluctant to send me there because he thought it was a bunch of rich kids. And he struggled with it, this idea, because he was bound and determined that even though he did well and he was successful, that we weren't gonna. That his kids weren't gonna be a bunch of spoiled brats. And that was important to him. And so when I left, he wasn't all that. He wasn't all that upset that I left. To be honest.

Terry Gross (37:01)

You were mostly known for comedic roles, and although in the new film Is this Thing on, you play somebody who is just getting started in comedy. There are funny moments in the movie, but it's also just a character study about how people change and come together and then maybe break apart and then come together or not. So you didn't intend to be a comedic actor? As far as I know. You wanted to be a dramatic actor. Did you have to learn things like you have great comic timing and you're naturally funny, and I've heard you on Smart List. You were really funny on that. Did being funny in real life, was that mostly like your training to be funny in roles?

Will Arnett (37:54)

Hmm. I didn't have any training, and there have been times where I regretted that I wasn't, like, in a sketch group or that I didn't do improv as part of an improv group in some sort of more formal setting. You know, a lot of my friends came up through Second City and Improv Olympic in Chicago, et cetera.

Terry Gross (38:12)

Well, that includes Amy Poehler, who you were married to for 10 years.

Will Arnett (38:15)

That's right. And she created Upright Citizens Brigade, which has been an incredible training Ground for plenty of really successful and funny people whom we all know. So, you know, I do wish that I had had that. At the same time, I kind of fell backwards into comedy. I wanted to be a serious actor. I'd gone to Lee Strasberg. I. You know, I was young, and I thought that I wanted to do stuff that would sort of be, I don't know, important or dramatic or emotional, whatever that heck it was at that age. And then I started reading sitcom pilots because I needed to pay the rent. And weirdly enough, when I started doing that kind of 24, 25 at the time, I thought, well, I'm not going to do a sitcom. It's, like, beneath me because I knew nothing at that age, right. And so hilarious now to think back how embarrassing that position is. But anyway, and I started reading for sitcoms and that doing that, I was like, oh, you know, okay. And I could kind of understand the timing, and there was something about it that I kind of got.

Terry Gross (39:27)

Can you look back to your first audition? How nervous were you? What was the part? What was your confidence level? How did you present yourself? Even if it was a kind of front you were putting on? Did you present yourself as confident? Did you dress for the role?

Will Arnett (39:44)

I can think back on.

Terry Gross (39:45)

Did you sleep the night before?

Will Arnett (39:49)

I can think back on a lot of those early auditions, like, first sort of paying gigs for, like, a sitcom and being very nervous and almost, like out of body, like, feeling not being present and just because I'm so nervous. But I also think that, like, in the last year, you know, doing this movie has reminded me a lot. It's brought me back to that place. I feel much closer to that kid I was when I was 20, when I first moved to New York. And, you know, doing something like this, where all the standup stuff aside, which was its own kind of thing, but doing all these scenes that were really vulnerable and revealing and felt very scary and. And, you know, it's funny. Nervous and excitement, those two senses, they're really close to each other. And so I was excited, but I was also didn't know. And I've realized now as I'm older, that I don't have all the answers. And I'm not sure if I knew how to do it. And I was scared. I was intimidated at 54, and I've been doing this a long time, and I was, you know, I was unsure if I could do it or if I could be available in that way, be vulnerable in that way. In these scenes, I can remember being a younger man and being a younger actor and feeling nervous. And I kind of am back to that now, which is I think I've shed a lot of that stuff and hopefully a lot of the ego stuff over the last year, especially during this movie where it's good to feel nervous.

Terry Gross (41:22)

Well, Arnett, it's been a pleasure to talk with you. Thank you so much. Congratulations on the new film.

Will Arnett (41:27)

Thank you so much, Terry. I really appreciate it.

Terry Gross (41:30)

Will Arnett co wrote and stars in the new film Is this Thing on? After we take a short break, TV critic David Biancooli will look back on the year in tv. This is FRESH air.

Andy Richter (41:42)

AI data centers use a lot of.

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Electricity and you may be paying for it.

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I think it's almost inevitable that ordinary.

Terry Gross (41:51)

People are going to end up subsidizing.

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The wealthiest industry in the world.

Andy Richter (41:56)

On the latest Planet Money podcast, how data centers might be hijacking your electric bill. Listen on the NPR app or wherever.

NPR Promo Announcer (42:04)

You get your podcasts. It's been a fantastic year for movies, and we know you can't see them all. So we're recommending some great films that might have flown under the radar to add to your watch list. Listen to Pop Culture Happy Hour in the NPR app or wherever you get your podcast.

Will Arnett (42:19)

Guests on.

Andy Richter (42:23)

Wait, Wait, don't tell me. Famous actors remember their days of obscurity, like when Pedro Pascal remembered the stress of being a waiter, the logistical labor of meeting everyone's needs in the right manner. You know, the act one, the water, act two, the drink. Listen to Wait, Wait. In the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

Terry Gross (42:48)

This is FRESH air. Our TV critic David Biancooli is taking a look back at the year in television, but he says he's not doing a top 10 list because there's been way too much good TV to limit to just 10 titles. And he's not doing a best of the year list because he says it's impossible to have seen everything. But he's seen a lot of everything.

David Bianculli (43:09)

I saw on TV in 2025. The One Show I thought was the very best and has haunted me ever since was the four part Netflix drama Adolescence. It's the story of a young teen accused of murdering a classmate, and it's told in such a way, emotionally and technically that I can't and won't forget it. It's the show I recommend most highly, but with a major caveat. It's grim and it's almost unbearably intense. Intensity, it turns out, is a common factor among many of my very favorite shows from this year year, HBO Max's the Pit was a medical show with an impressively credible tension factor. So was Netflix's the Diplomat with its unpredictable high stakes plot twists. And so was FX's the Bear, even though it wasn't about life or death, just appetizers and entrees. The Bear even calls itself a comedy, but it's not much, much too dramatic for that. A couple of my other favorite TV dramas, almost equally intense, featured ragtag, mismatched investigative teams thrown together to solve specific crimes. One HBO's task was headed by a brooding, intelligent guy with lots of emotional baggage, played by Mark Ruffalo. Another Netflix's Department Q was headed by a brooding, intelligent guy with even more emotional baggage, played by Matthew Good. His character is returning to work after being shot and almost killed, and at first he's openly hostile to his police appointed therapist, played by Kelly McDonald, who's as sharp and brittle as he is.

TV Therapist Character (44:51)

Have you been feeling depressed, Carl?

Terry Gross (44:53)

No more than normal.

TV Therapist Character (44:54)

If I was shot in the face, I might feel depressed. I might feel angry.

David Bianculli (44:59)

Not me.

TV Therapist Character (45:00)

It's all good then, from my end.

Terry Gross (45:02)

Yeah.

TV Therapist Character (45:02)

So no need for me to ask about anxiety or sleep problems because of course you've experienced none of that.

Terry Gross (45:08)

I don't sleep much anyway.

TV Therapist Character (45:12)

So then this is just a giant waste of our time.

Will Arnett (45:14)

Well, those are your words, not mine.

David Bianculli (45:17)

And maybe it's just me, but this year I definitely gravitated to dramatic shows that made me uneasy. It was another great season for Netflix's Black Mirror and the end of year final episode of another dark Netflix fantasy series, Stranger Things, is eagerly awaited by many, including me, because I've seen all the new episodes leading up to it, but the finale is being kept under wraps. That show's been around since 2016, almost a decade, but other terrific genre shows were new takes on old ideas. Guillermo del Toro's Frankenstein on Netflix was an excellent and very different adaptation, and what Noah Hawley did by reinventing the Alien movie franchise for the FX TV series Alien Earth was thrilling and at times truly scary and still churning out weekly episodes. Brilliant ones is Pluribus, the new indescribably original Apple TV sci fi series from Vince Gilligan. The comedies I like best this year, some were set behind the scenes of showbiz, like the new Apple TV series the Studio, starring Seth Rogen as a bumbling but well meaning studio head, and the returning HBO Max series Hacks, starring Jean Smart as a female comic landing a job as a TV talk show host. The Other comedies were light hearted mysteries, benefiting greatly from their veteran cast members. Hulu's Only Murders in the Building and Netflix's A Man on the Inside. Both of those shows made me feel good, which is a lot to ask of any TV show these days. Non Fiction TV also offered many excellent options this year. Artistic profiles to seek out from 2025 include Apple TV's Mr. Scorsese about film director Martin Scorsese, and HBO's Pee Wee as himself about actor Paul Reubens. Most recently, there's the short but powerful Netflix documentary All the Empty Rooms, about a TV feature report and photographer who visit the families of children killed during school shootings to memorialize the children's empty but still intact bedrooms. It's as tough to watch as adolescence and oddly touches on a similar subject. TV reporter Steve Hartman talks about the power of visiting these bedroom shrines, trapped in time and saying so much with their silence.

Will Arnett (47:48)

The whole point of this is to not have to say much. I just want people to see the pictures and just let the pictures speak for themselves.

David Bianculli (48:02)

Other great documentaries this year included Sunday Best, a new Netflix program about Ed Sullivan's contributions to popularizing black entertainers, PBS's the American Revolution, the latest and perhaps greatest epic history lesson from ken Burns & Co. And the new installment of the Beatles Anthology presented by Disney. On talk shows, I loved the feisty topical spirit invoked by Stephen Colbert, Jimmy Kimmel, Jon Stewart, Seth Meyers and John Oliver, and especially the well aimed irreverence of the current season of Comedy Central South Park. Wow. Many of these shows were attacked or censored by their corporate owners in well publicized clashes that exposed and fought against the interference. The CBS Late show franchise is being retired from the schedule, but most of the time this year the comics and their programs persevered. Finally, my favorite TV moment of 2025 came courtesy of CNN not for a news bulletin but for televising, live from Broadway, a production of Good Night and Good Luck, starring George Clooney as veteran CBS newsman Edward R. Murrow. At the end of the play, Clooney recites Murrow's actual speech to news and TV executives from 1958, urging them to use TV wisely. These instruments can teach, they can.

Will Arnett (49:31)

Illuminate, they can even.

David Bianculli (49:34)

Inspire. But they can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use them to those ends. Otherwise, they're merely wires and lights in a box. In the year 2025, the best of television, from the American Revolution to adolescence is living up to Ed Murrow's inspirational ideals. We all just have to find the best that's out there, then find the time to watch.

Terry Gross (50:02)

It. David Biancooli is Fresh Airs TV Critic Tomorrow we kick off our End of the Year series featuring a few of our favorite interviews of the year with Mitch Albom, whose book Days With Maury became a best selling memoir and was adapted into an Emmy winning film. His latest novel, Twice is about a man who discovers he can relive any moment but must accept the consequences of reliving it. I hope you'll join us to keep up with what's on the show and get highlights of our interviews. Follow us on Instagram P R Fresh air. Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham. Our managing producer is Sam Brigger. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Roberta Shorrock, Anne Marie Boldonado, Lauren Krenzel, Teresa Madden, Monique Nazareth Chaloner, Anna Bauman and Nico Gonzales Whistler. Our digital media producer is Molly Sivinesper. Susan Yakundi directed today's show. Our co host is Tanya Mosley. I'm Terry.

Podcast Host (51:21)

Gross. 6, 7 like the numbers 6 and 7 is a kid's meme that parents are trying to make sense.

Terry Gross (51:34)

Of. My dad is trying to understand what 67.

Will Arnett (51:37)

Is. I kind of feel bad for.

Podcast Host (51:39)

The parents, but is there more that kids, parents and the rest of us should know about these two numbers? To find out, listen to the It's Been a Minute podcast on the NPR app or wherever you get your.

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Podcasts. AI expert Alvin Grayland has worked in Silicon Valley and China's tech scene for over three decades. Talk of an AI arms race. He thinks it's a big.

Will Arnett (52:01)

Mistake. When I hear this from people who are very influential in the decision making in America, it feels a little bit ignorant and very.

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Scary. Ideas about AI in 2026 and beyond. Listen to the TED Radio Hour on the NPR app or wherever you get your.