Goodbye Isn’t Always the End: The Dangerous Game of the Ouija Board

Summary

Fringe Beyond Limits — Episode Summary

Episode: "Goodbye Isn’t Always the End: The Dangerous Game of the Ouija Board"

Podcast: Fringe Beyond Limits
Hosts: Frank, Breanna, and Lynette
Release Date: May 12, 2026

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Main Theme / Purpose

This episode dives into the mysterious and controversial world of the Ouija board. The hosts explore its history, mechanics, evolving reputation from parlor game to occult tool, the science behind its operation, and chilling firsthand tales—both legendary and personal. With humor and candid discussion, they debate skeptical versus spiritual explanations, dissect popular myths, and reflect on the lingering allure and taboo surrounding the Ouija board.

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Key Topics & Insights

1. Warm-Up and Banter (00:35–06:50)

• Hosts catch up with light-hearted jokes and personal updates (exhaustion, yardwork, trips to Boston and Salem).
• Memorable Moment: Lynette humorously laments her “karmic debt” involving endless rock-moving tasks courtesy of her husband.

  "Don't date guys who have turtles." — Lynette (04:58)

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2. Introduction to the Ouija Board (06:51–10:00)

• Frank introduces the episode theme: the Ouija board, its unsettling reputation, and the fascination surrounding it.
• Hosts discuss their (lack of) personal Ouija use and different beliefs about making your own board versus buying one.
• Quote:

  "There’s something unsettling about a board that isn’t supposed to move yet does." — Frank (08:51)

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3. Ouija Board — Origins and History (10:00–14:06)

• 19th-century roots in Victorian America and obsession with spiritualism.

• Commercial introduction by Elijah Bond, Charles Kennard, and the Kennard Novelty Company as a "mysterious parlor game."

• The debated origin of the name “Ouija” (possibly from a locket’s picture of activist Ouida).

• William Fuld's role in popularizing the board.

• Shift in perception after Parker Brothers' purchase and especially after the 1973 film "The Exorcist."

• Quote:

  “Do you think if it was never depicted in the Exorcist, that it would have had that evil, harmful stigma?” — Frank (13:19)

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4. The Ouija Board’s Design and Mechanisms (15:23–18:44)

• Classic Victorian design: arched alphabet, numeric row, YES/NO corners, “Goodbye” for closing.
• The role of the planchette and the ritual around moving it to “Goodbye.”
• Discussion of safety and ritual, and their effectiveness or symbolism.

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5. Science, Skepticism & The Ideomotor Effect (21:55–25:11)

• The scientific explanation: ideomotor effect (tiny, unconscious movements create the illusion of external movement).

• Power of suggestion within groups — movement can feel external even if it’s internal.

• Counterarguments: believers cite cases where the board gives unknown, accurate information.

• Notable Exchange:

  C: “I’m totally using that as an excuse next time when I whop you on the back of the head.”
  B: "That’s fine." (22:58)

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6. Paranormal Interpretations & Personal Experiences (27:11–37:49)

• Spiritual perspectives: the board as a real communication tool, possibility of attachments or gateways.

• Frank shares a chilling personal Ouija story where the board seemed to connect with his deceased cousin, revealing unknown information.

  "It spelled out Mussolini. And I'm like, okay. … He died on a Friday. Totally freaked me out." — Frank (30:18)

• Lynette shares stories involving recurring names/entities.

• The hosts discuss failed sessions and why intent isn’t always enough for results.

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7. The Ouija Board in Pop Culture (37:49–45:59)

• Early 20th-century Ouija as a mainstream party game and household comfort during war and loss.
• The pivotal impact of "The Exorcist": shift from curiosity to fear.
• How Hollywood and horror cinema permanently altered the board’s image.
• Emergence of modern urban legends: the Rainbow Rule (figure-eight = demon), the silver coin myth, the “goodbye” requirement, and the internet legend of “Zozo.”

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8. Legendary and Documented Firsthand Accounts (48:28–80:59)

• Famous cases:
  • Patience Worth: Pearl Curran’s prolific Ouija-based writing.
  • Bill Wilson (AA founder): Sought spiritual guidance via Ouija.
  • Patent Approval Story: A demonstration convinces a skeptical patent officer when the board spells out his name.
  • Hidden Address Case: Ouija reveals details of an unsolved crime unknown to participants, who later experience possible poltergeist activity.
  • The "Stuck Goodbye" Phenomenon: Session cannot end, planchette resists moving to “Goodbye,” culminating in the board splitting in two.
  • Physical Manifestation (“The Knock Account”): Board spells "KNOCK," three bangs immediately follow, as interpreted by both believers and skeptics.

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9. Modern Internet & Reddit Stories (70:21–80:59)

• Hosts read Reddit-submitted stories involving:
  • Family secrets revealed by the board (bank accounts, warnings of danger).
  • Visual phenomena after a session (e.g., seeing strange orbs).
  • Eerie predictions (marriage, phone numbers) that later come true.
  • Paranormal disturbances in the wake of Ouija sessions.

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10. The Psychological Edge — Sleep Paralysis & Shadow People (65:29–69:09)

• The interplay between Ouija-induced anxiety and sleep paralysis.
• Shadow figure sightings and the debate over psychological causes versus external phenomena.
• Memorable Quote:

  "As a young man, I performed many solo sessions in my bedroom late at night." — Frank (65:29)
  (Followed by much laughter and innuendo.)

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11. Final Thoughts, Myths, and Experiments (81:08–86:08)

• Frank proposes “Ouija Time” as a possible video segment for YouTube.
• Joking about blending traditional and modern board games and appropriateness in public places.
• Discussing buying/creating custom boards; the appeal of antique or used boards from metaphysical shops or estate sales.

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12. Would You Play? (84:43–86:08)

• Lynette has ordered a hand-etched board.
• Breanna feels less fearful now, open to trying.
• Frank and the group consider filming their future Ouija session for YouTube—or OnlyFans.

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Notable Quotes & Moments (by timestamp)

• On Skepticism vs. Belief:

  "Because once it answers, it doesn’t always stop. And once something knows your voice, it knows how to find you again." — Frank, summing up the episode’s tension (82:52)

• Cultural Shift:

  "The Exorcist…tapped into a deep-seated cultural nerve, transforming the board from a curious antique into a portal to hell…in the eyes of the general public." — Frank (39:44)

• On Science vs. Experience:

  "The real mystery isn’t whether the planchette moves, it’s why. It knows where to go, why it answers questions no one asked out loud, why it feels like something is listening even after your hands are gone." — Frank (82:56)

• Humor & Running Gags:

  “I am the offspring of Chuck Norris.” (60:47) “Our only fans…your feet on the planchette.” (86:05)

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Key Timestamps for Major Segments

• 06:51 – Introduction to the Ouija Board
• 10:00 – Historical Background and Origins
• 15:23 – Board Design, Rituals, and Safety
• 21:55 – The Ideomotor Effect Explained
• 27:31 – Frank’s Chilling Personal Experience
• 37:49 – Ouija in American Social Life
• 39:44 – The Exorcist and Popular Fear
• 48:28 – Literary and Famous Personal Cases
• 55:36 – “Hidden Address” Paranormal Account
• 58:23 – “Stuck Goodbye” and Aftereffects
• 65:29 – Shadow People and Sleep Paralysis
• 70:21 – Reddit and Listener Stories
• 81:08 – “Ouija Time” and Experiments
• 84:43 – Would You Play Now?
• 86:08 – Episode Wrap-up / Closing

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Tone and Approach

The hosts maintain an engaging, conversational, and candid tone, blending humor, skepticism, curiosity, and a healthy dose of irreverence. Personal anecdotes and respectful debate make the discussion accessible, whether listeners are newbies, believers, or firm skeptics.

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For the Uninitiated…

This episode offers a comprehensive and entertaining look at the Ouija board phenomenon, blending storytelling, history, science, and speculation. It’s a great starting point for anyone interested in the uneasy crossroads where folklore, psychology, and the supernatural meet.

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Note: The above summary skips all ads/intro/outro and captures only in-depth content. For a full exploration with all the laughs and chills, listen from [06:51] onward.

Transcript

[A]

Sa.

[B]

Welcome to another episode of Fringe Beyond Lammettes. Check, check. Check. One. Check, check.

[C]

Hi.

[A]

Check.

[C]

O bet.

[A]

Check your face.

[B]

Testes. Testes. One, two, three. Hi, guys.

[C]

Hi. Hello. Another week, just another day in paradise

[B]

Seven more days closer to the eternal slumber that I crave for like an hour. I am so. I have been so tired. Like, these past few weeks. Like, it's been a will. A struggle of will to get out of bed every morning. And then, like on the weekends, I am taking like three hour naps in the middle of the day. I've just been so exhausted.

[C]

That's okay.

[A]

You've been busy. Busy.

[C]

Your body's telling you I'm tired.

[B]

I know. I'm just wondering how much.

[C]

Sick and tired.

[B]

Yeah, but like, I saw my endocrinologist and I told her, I'm like, listen, I don't know what the hell's going on. And she's like, well, it doesn't make sense because all your labs are perfect. Like, your cholesterol is way lower than normal. Your A1C, which is your blood glucose level, is within range. There's nothing out here that jumps. No infection. No. You know, and I'm like, well, great. I'm happy you could tell me so much about myself. So the only thing I still have is a stupid thyroid in my throat. Even that, even that was normal.

[A]

Are you sure that's a thyroid in your throat?

[B]

No, it's you. I mean, it's usually a penis.

[A]

That's what I thought, but are you sure you just didn't get stuck there? And that's what they actually sense, you know?

[B]

What? Just the tip. Maybe there's. Just the tip was there and. Or the outline of the tip, and that's what they.

[A]

Maybe you circumcise somebody with your throat that's left over from you.

[B]

Listen, it's all possible.

[C]

Stop. Let me out of this conversation.

[B]

All possible.

[C]

We're gonna be banned now because I said that.

[B]

No, no, all possible.

[A]

Frank agreed to it.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, I'm not a doctor, so.

[A]

Thank you.

[C]

Just stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.

[B]

Yeah. Usually that's the only reason why I stay there, too, is just to say, make those stupid jokes. So, anyway, how are you ladies doing?

[C]

I'm going to Boston.

[B]

Boston.

[C]

And I've never been to Boston in the fall.

[A]

And guess with who.

[C]

Who? Brian?

[D]

Emily.

[B]

Oh, Emily.

[D]

No.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

How is she doing? She hasn't.

[A]

She's gonna. She's pregnant again.

[C]

What?

[A]

Yeah. You know, she'll be six months pregnant when we go.

[B]

You Know, does she still listen?

[C]

I don't know.

[B]

Yeah, I don't know either. But you know what?

[A]

I think she stopped because before she had her other baby, I think she stopped right before her first. I don't know if she listened at all.

[B]

Yeah, well, you know.

[C]

Well, tell her to tune into this one and be like, shout out.

[B]

Yeah, shout out to the lady that ignores me all the time.

[C]

I don't blame her. I wish I could do that.

[A]

Denise. A day trip to Salem.

[B]

Yeah. When is that trip?

[A]

Memorial Day weekend.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Very cool.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, have fun. Say hi to Emily. Give her a hug from the show. Not from me, just the show.

[A]

The show.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So mainly from Lynette, not you.

[B]

Pretty much.

[A]

Got it.

[B]

Yeah, pretty much.

[C]

And give her a hug from me. Couple hugs.

[B]

Lynette, how are you?

[C]

I'm pooped.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Been moving rocks.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[C]

So I. I've been saying. No, I just been doing a lot of yard work, and I'm coming to realize that I feel like I have some unresolved karmic debt with my husband, because it's always, like, rocks with him. Of course, like, when we first started dating, he had turtles, which is a warning to don't date guys who have turtles.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Just saying.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

But somehow cleaning the turtle tank turned into Lynette scrubbing rocks for eight hours. And then we got rid of the turtles, and we replaced the turtles with poison dart frogs. And then it turned into Lynette still scrubbing rocks for hours when we cleaned the frog tank, even though I specifically wrote in my vows that I will not be cleaning rocks. So I'm no longer cleaning rocks. But, however, now that we've moved to Tennessee, I have to move, like, these boulders from my front to my backyard. And I was trying to find a place for them, so I kind of built, like, a little retaining wall. And then over the weekend, JT's like, I want to put some, like, weed barrier in, blah, blah, blah. So I had to pick up every single one of those rocks that I placed into a wall and move them just enough for me to tuck a weed barrier under them and then replace them again. All right.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

There's a lot of karmic debt there. There was a lot of information in that minute.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. All right, well, good luck with your future, future rock moving business.

[C]

I pick things up, I put them down. Like, don't they do that in prisons? Yeah, back in form of, like.

[B]

Yeah, the chain gang back in the 50s. Yes, they. That's what they would do.

[C]

And they probably still do it in, like, Russia and stuff like that?

[B]

Oh, yeah, for sure.

[C]

They did it in the Hands made Handmaid's Tale, so that's like future apocalyptic.

[B]

Okay. Yeah, Yeah. I mean, the future is just us going backwards, so I get that.

[C]

Right? So, yeah. Moving rocks. I'll be such a professional.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Anyway, all right, so on that note.

[B]

Yeah, I'm happy, you guys.

[C]

I'm sorry I asked.

[B]

Yeah, a little bit. Listeners, just skip ahead five minutes. So. All right, well, tonight's. It's going to be a fun episode.

[C]

We're finally doing a fun one.

[B]

Yeah, we're finally.

[A]

Finally. Maybe I can actually stay.

[C]

Stay awake during this.

[B]

Yeah, no, that's not happening. My voice puts you to sleep.

[A]

I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

[B]

For me. It's good. Well, there's.

[A]

You put your wife to sleep, so.

[B]

Yeah, that's good, too. For her.

[A]

It's a good thing, too, because she likes to sleep.

[B]

Yes. So tonight we'll be talking about the Ouija board. Have you. Have you guys ever played with a Ouija board?

[C]

I have not.

[B]

No.

[C]

You haven't.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

No.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

Well, I was told it's better that you use one that you created yourself rather than use one that someone else created or store bought, because it's the intent put behind it, the energy that's put into it when you make it.

[B]

Yeah, I think that's a bunch of hokum. I think it's just the intent you put in a while using it. It's just another form of communication. Because if that's the way goes, then every single recording device, we should create ourselves because it would have the same intent.

[A]

Sure.

[C]

Geez. You just stomp on Bri first.

[A]

I know.

[C]

First thing she says.

[B]

Yeah, well, I'm not saying she's hul. I'm just saying what she heard was hokum.

[A]

Well, it makes sense, though, because it's like you're using a piece. Usually take a piece of wood and then you create it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And the wood absorbs the energy.

[B]

I mean. No, I understand. I understand.

[A]

Recorder records a piece of plastic.

[B]

No, there's metal.

[A]

So. Metal. How can that absorb something?

[B]

Metal? Yeah, metal absorbs. It absorbs energy all the time. It absorbs heat from the sun. It gets hot.

[A]

Hot.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. It's the same way I brought sexy back.

[C]

What?

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

So I will. All right, so we'll ask the Ouija board if I brought it back or not. So we're going to have to do a Ouija board session with Brie Nellanette.

[C]

All right.

[B]

Sweet. Well, there's something unsettling about a board that isn't supposed to move yet does. Long before it became a boxed game sitting on store shelves, the Ouija board was whispered about in dimly lit parlors, where grieving voices reached into the dark, hoping something would answer back. Fingers barely touching the planchette, hearts pounding in silence. Then suddenly, it begins to slide. Not pushed, not pulled, just moving, as if guided by something unseen. Born out of an age obsessed with speaking to the dead, the Ouija board carries with it more than just letters and numbers. It carries stories. Stories of curiosity turning into fear, of harmless games becoming something harder to explain. Some say it's nothing more than the mind playing tricks, tiny unconscious movements creating the illusion of contact. Others aren't so sure. They tell you the board listens. And sometimes it answers. So tonight, as we step into the strange history and lingering mystery of the Ouija board, ask yourself one question. If something really did reach back from the other side, would you want it to? The history of the Ouija board is a fascinating blend of Victorian spiritualist fervor and savvy American entrepreneurship. In the mid to late 19th century, the United States was gripped by a fascination with the beyond, fueled by the high mortality rates of the Civil War and a growing belief that the living could communicate with the dead. Initially, mediums used tedious methods like Alphabet wrapping or automatic writing, which were slow and often frustrating. Recognizing a gap in the market for a more efficient and entertaining way to talk to spirits, businessmen Elijah Bond and Charles Kennard founded The Kennard Novelty Company. In 1890. They introduced the first commercial talking board, complete with a daconic, arched Alphabet and planchette, marketing it not as a dark occult tool, but as a mysterious parlor game that promised both enlightenment and entertainment. The naming of the board itself is steeped in lore. While a common misconception suggests Ouija, or Ouija, is a combination of the French and German words for yes, oui and ja. The founders claimed a much more mystical origin. According to their accounts, they asked the board what it wanted to be called during a session in Baltimore Boarding house, and it spelled out O, U, I, J, a. When they asked what the word meant, the board replied, good luck. Do you think that was, like, good luck as in it means good luck? Or you think it was like little. Little sass on it, like good luck?

[A]

I want to think it's put sass in it, but that's just me.

[C]

Yeah, that's What I'm hoping for, too.

[B]

All right, good. Interestingly, the woman operating the board at the time, Helen Peters, was wearing a locket containing a picture of a famous women's rights activist named Weda, which many historians believe was the actual, if subconscious, inspiration for the name. The board's popularity skyrocketed under the leadership of William Fuld, a former employee who took over the business and became the primary promoter of the device. Fuld was a master of marketing, often planning stories in newspapers about the board's mystical accuracy while simultaneously filing numerous patents to protect his commercial interests. He transformed the Ouija board into a household stable, and it remained a widely accepted family activity through both world wars, as people sought comfort during times of immense loss. It wasn't until the 1966 sale of the rights to Parker Brothers, followed by the terrifying depiction of the board in the 1973 film The Exorcist, that the public perception shifted from a harmless curiosity to a potentially dangerous gateway to the supernatural. Do you think if it was never depicted in the Exorcist that it would have had that, like, evil, harmful stigma?

[C]

Probably not. Yeah, probably not. Or until the next movie came along. Yeah.

[A]

Because that movie brought a lot of fear to a lot of people back then.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, people were passing out in theaters.

[C]

It pulled a lot of stuff.

[B]

And here's the thing. Hollywood has so much pull on the general consensus of things. So I have a friend that isn't really into this, but every once in a while I'll bring stuff up. And one time we were talking about the Ouija board, and he's like, oh, yeah, you should never use that by yourself. And I'm like, why? And he's like, well, that's just what I've seen in the movies. I'm like, jesus. Like, he does, like, nothing, you know, paranormal. He's just not interested in at all. I mean, I don't even think he's interested in, like, horror movies, per se, but I'm just like. I'm like, really?

[A]

You're.

[B]

You're gonna think that's just, you know, that that's what it is now. You saw it in a movie once, and that's just gold.

[C]

Yep. Movies equal life. No questions asked.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It's like you get stuck in the woods. Hey, I've seen this in a movie before. If we do this.

[C]

Although there are certain things that I've seen in movies that I would never do in real life. Like, never go down into the basement if you're being chased by someone.

[B]

Yeah. Let's let's corner ourselves. That's a great idea. No, I know, but, like, what was it Scream? Where what's his face was the guy that, like, would say, don't ever say, I'll be back, because you're always gonna get killed. Do you guys remember that movie? Are you guys frozen?

[C]

No. You're frozen.

[B]

You're frozen. I was not frozen. You guys were.

[A]

You were.

[C]

No, you were.

[A]

All right, well, because Lynette started talking while you're frozen.

[B]

Oh, all right, Lynette, what were you saying?

[C]

Sorry, I thought it was Matthew Lillard's character.

[B]

Yes, it was. I couldn't remember his name, but, yes, you are correct.

[C]

Like, the only actor I know from, like, the 90s. Well, there's also Jonathan Taylor Thomas.

[B]

Dude, wasn't he supposed to be, like, president? Like, didn't he go into politics after Tool Time?

[A]

I don't know.

[C]

Did he?

[B]

I thought he did. I don't remember.

[A]

I just know Carrie had the biggest crush on him.

[B]

Yeah, listen, he was an attractive young man, you know? Anyway. Okay, so. The anatomy of a standard Ouija board is a masterclass in function. Victorian design, purposefully arranged to facilitate the most efficient communication between the participants and the spirit world. At the center of the board's layout are two graceful arched rows containing the letters of the Alphabet, a design choice intended to allow the planchette to glide smoothly in a circular or sweeping motion from one character to the next. Directly below the Alphabet is a straight line of numbers ranging from 0 to 9, which allows the board to provide dates, ages, or specific numerical coordinates. This entire character set is framed by the anchor. Words. Yes and no are positioned in the upper left and right corners, respectively, providing a quick way for the spirits to answer direct questions without the needing of labor. Laborious spelling. The most critical functional elements of the board are the goodbye, salutation and the planchette itself. The word goodbye is prominently centered at the very bottom of the board, serving as the official closing mechanism for a session. In modern lore, moving the planchette to this spot is considered a mandatory safety measure to sever the connection with any entities. The planchette, typically a heart shaped or triangular piece made of wood or plastic, is the engine of the board's movement. It usually rests on three small felt covered legs or casters to reduce friction against the board surface. Most modern planchettes feature a circular viewing window in the center, often made of clear glass or plastic, which allows the participants to see exactly which letter or number is being selected. As the device glides across the Board. This specific combination of the stationary board and the mobile planchette is what creates the iconic visual of the Ouija board that has remained virtually unchanged for over 130 years. Do you, like. Do you really think that just by making it go to goodbye that it just stops the communication with whatever?

[A]

Possibly. I mean, it's a way to close it, right? I guess it depends on what you say. If you just moved to goodbye, that's maybe just saying goodbye to them. But, like, if you're saying, like, okay, we're ending this session and then move it to goodbye from there.

[B]

Yeah, I go back and forth. You know, same way when I go back and forth with, like. Like San Paolo or What's the other stuff you guys burned to cleanse the house?

[A]

Sage.

[C]

Palo santo or Sage.

[B]

Yeah, Palo Santo and sage. Like. Like, I get the intent behind it, but, like, it's just really weird to me that a negative entity is gonna smell sage and like, oh, that. And just leave. I don't know. You know, Like, I. I look at it. I look at it as. At these, like, the spiritual sense of it, but I also look at it at a practical sense, and it's like I see it both ways, and I just argue with myself.

[C]

He's frozen.

[A]

Yep.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

All right. Now that I'm unfrozen, does that work better, ladies?

[C]

So far, so good.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

No, but I wanted to say there's other, like, scrying methods like the pendulum and things like that, which are very similar concept to the Ouija board and same thing. You respectfully, like, your energy is being harnessed to manipulate these things. Although Frank looks frozen. Oh, no, he's just slow blinking.

[B]

Yeah, I'm just slow blinking.

[C]

Sorry. Slow blinking. But when you're done, you're. You. You say, I'm going to end the session or thank you and goodbye. Okay. It's just like hanging up the phone. But if there's something malevolent there or if there's something that's formed, whatever attachment, then goodbye isn't going to stop anything. But the good stuff will respect boundaries.

[B]

Okay, fair enough.

[A]

But it's funny because I think the reason people do that, so the. The bad stuff don't come with them.

[B]

Well, I think that's why he gets a bad, bad stigma, is because, you know, like you said before, Bri, it's about intent. And usually it's a bunch of teenagers, like, oh, let's do something scary tonight.

[C]

So you get what you ask for.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Pretty much.

[B]

And then they're surprised and scared. When something scary happens,

[A]

they forget to do the goodbye and then you run away.

[C]

And then.

[A]

Yeah, they keep the porter open.

[B]

Yeah. But yeah, you're right. If you ask for something good, like you. I want to talk to grandma. Well, then guess what would probably happen, Right?

[C]

Yeah, she's gonna flip the table over and. Right on your. Your foggy windows in the bathroom.

[A]

Or for Frank's mom. She'll throw a shoe at you.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Oh, yeah, there you go. You as in Frank or send mosquitoes your way.

[B]

Yeah, they'll send. Yeah, she really doesn't like me even more in death. All right, so the debate over how the Ouija board operates is a classic conflict between cognitive psychology and paranormal belief. While the experience feels undeniably external.

[D]

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[E]

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[B]

For the participants. Science offers a mechanical explanation that is just as fascinating as these supernatural theories. The primary scientific explanation for the movement of the planchette is the. I'm sorry. The ideometer effect. This term describes a psychological phenomenon where a person makes small unconscious physical movements based on their expectations or suggestions.

[C]

I think it's idiomotor. Like it's your motor skills.

[B]

Oh, it's idiomotor. Okay, listen, I. English is my second.

[C]

I don't know. I think.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

Eh, it's okay. We always say things wrong on this show.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

Bri, you too.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Don't you be blaming it all on me.

[B]

Subconscious action. Your brain can signal your muscles to move without you being consciously aware of the intent in the context of a Ouija board. Because participants expect the planet to move, their bodies fulfill that expectation through minute muscular contractions in the arms and fingers.

[C]

I'm totally using that as an excuse. Next time when I whop you on the back of the head.

[B]

Oh, that's fine.

[A]

Subconscious action.

[C]

Sorry, that's my idiomotor skills.

[B]

Yeah, I get it. I have them all the time.

[C]

Subconscious action.

[B]

I have them all the time. I'm surprised it hasn't happened around you lately or at all, but I feel as though there's gonna be an uptick in that.

[C]

Yep.

[B]

So.

[C]

Also the fuck a love buttercream.

[B]

Also the power of suggestion. Once the planchette begins to move, the effect is amplified. If one person subconsciously nudges it toward the letter H, others in a group anticipating a word like hello will subconsciously contribute their own physical force to complete the word. The ghostly sensation. Because these movements are involuntary, the brain does not register them as self generated. This creates a powerful feeling that the planchette is being pulled or pushed by an outside force, even though the energy is entirely internal. Those who view the board through an occult or spiritual lens believe the device acts as a medium or a conduit between our world and another dimension. Collective energy. Many practitioners believe that the participants provide the ectoplasmic or spiritual energy required for an entity to move physical objects. The board is seen as a focal point that allows a spirit to tap into the participants life force to communicate. The gateway theory. Some spiritualist and religious groups view the board as a portal that can be opened. They argue that the board doesn't just facilitate communication, but can actually invite entities ranging from friendly spirits to malevolent low level attachments into the physical space. Ideometer. Is that what you're calling it?

[C]

Ideomotor.

[B]

Ideomotor counter argument. Believers often point to instances where the board provides information that none of the participants could have known, such as the location of a lost object or a specific historical date. As evidence that the ideometer. Idiometer. I don't know. Effect alone cannot explain the phenomenon.

[C]

I think this phenomenon is attacking your brain.

[E]

It is.

[C]

I want to pause there for a second because a few of them are actually creepier than. Than others. Like, sure, you could say that the, the gateway theory, you know, it's. It's a portal. Entities are coming through. But arguably I'd say that go see Sensation one or the. Now I'm going to say it wrong because you've been saying idio. Idiomotor Whatever. Saying it backwards, that one's arguably just as scary because that means your brain is doing things that you are not conscious that you are doing.

[B]

Yeah, but I. I understand what you're saying, but, like, your body, your brain does that all the time.

[C]

But. But. But, like, in the sense of it has. And I don't mean like your heart beats and you don't have to think about your heart beating. You know, your eyes blinking, breathing, blah, blah, blah. But I just. I think it's interesting and also kind of creepy that there's a whole consciousness level that we are unconscious too. Does that make sense?

[B]

Yeah, I get it.

[A]

Yeah. You don't know how to separate what you're doing versus what's actually going on.

[C]

Right. And I'd almost even argue that the counter argument saying, well, you can't just say that it's subconscious because, you know, a lost object or something like that, because the brain remembers everything. It's just whether or not it records everything. It's just whether or not we're able to recall. So you put your keys somewhere, and you don't remember where the keys are, but somewhere in your brain, it knows it's there. So you can effectively. What's the word I'm looking for? Access more of your consciousness or brain through this tool.

[B]

Okay, so I don't know. No, I. I have a story. I have a story that leans more to.

[A]

You're like.

[C]

I wasn't paying attention. I was thinking of a story.

[B]

No, not at all. No.

[A]

Something of the word idio. I. Idiomolder.

[C]

Idiot meter. Yeah, idiot.

[A]

I was about to say idiot meter, actually.

[B]

No, no, I. I heard what you said, but I have a story that goes towards more of this being supernatural than something explainable or physical. So I was. God, was like, 20. Might have been 20. I was hanging out with these.

[C]

That was a century ago almost.

[B]

And I was hanging out with these, with these newly formed friends, and they pull out a Ouija board. I go right on. So. So we start doing it right. It's me and four other people. So, you know, it starts moving and on. And for whatever reason, I. I had the feeling that it was. The person we were talking to was my cousin Frank. So growing up, my cousin Frank was about 20 years older than me, and him and I were best friends. Like, I was his bat boy at soft. At his softball team. Like, he was one of the.

[C]

Originally thought you were gonna be in a suit. His bad boy. Sorry. The visual is funny.

[B]

Yeah, that's fine. That's fine.

[C]

Were Your underpants on the outside of your leggings.

[B]

Yes. Yes, I was.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

I was. I was pretending I was a superhero. Yes.

[C]

Okay, carry on.

[B]

Thank you. You know, he took me to Cubs games. He took me to WWF matches. Like, we were inseparable. And he had the same personality and same sense of humor as I did. Like, he would go, like, in the early to mid-80s when it was really crazy, he went to spring break in Fort Lauderdale. Like, he did the shit that I probably would have done if I was alive during that same timeframe. So anyway, he passed away when I was 10 years old. 10, 11 years old. Anyway, so we're on there, and I just had a feeling. So I asked. I'm like, is this my cousin Frank? And moved to. Yes. So I'm like, It freaked me out. And I'm only 20, so I take my hands off the planchette and I go. And I sit on the. On the couch. And so the, like, these friends know I'm Italian, and that's about it. They don't know how Italian I am. They don't know anything. So I'm not touching the planchette. And my cousin Frank used to call my grandfather Mussolini as an endearing is a term of endearment. Okay. It was like a. Just. It was like an inside joke. Okay. I mean, okay, so. So I go, fine. I go, guys, I go ask. I go, let me ask. Let me ask. So I asked the board. I go, what did you used to call my grandfather? It's spelled out Mussolini. And I'm like, I don't even know

[C]

how to spell that.

[B]

M, U, S, S. I'm just leaning. It's spelled it out. And I'm like, okay. I go, what day did you die on? What day of the week did you die on? And it's spelled out Friday. He died on a Friday. Totally freaked me out. These people. There was no way. This is, you know, obviously before, you know, Google, you know, the Facebook machine. Yeah. This is before any kind of machine out there material. Yeah. So it was just really, really. And I think that's what kind of also springboarded my whole interest into the paranormal was, like, that moment. Like, I was always kind of curious about it, you know, Like, I grew up in a haunted house. I'd hear, I'd see. But that kind of really springboarded me into it. Yeah. And later that night, I finished a bottle of vodka. No, bottle of tequila.

[C]

You were only 20 years old. That was illegal.

[B]

Allegedly.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

So, yeah, that's my story.

[C]

I Was gonna say my experiences with Ouija board haven't been that exciting.

[B]

No. But I've also had times where it'd be like three, four, five of us, all of us believers, and nothing happened. So, again, going back to the motor thing, we're all believers. We all wanted to do something. Like we were trying to connect with one of my friend's brother that passed away, and not it. We did it for. We tried to do it for like, 30, 40 minutes. Nothing happened. So that's also, you know, kind of weird that, you know, we just couldn't create a connection for whatever reason. But we were all believers. And if that motor thing is, you know, accurate, then, I mean, you would think within that 40 minutes, something would have happened, you know, even if it just moved to a word.

[C]

What if you guys had, like, conflicting requests, like someone wants to talk to different people or someone, you know.

[B]

Show me your tits. No. Show me your. Yeah, I get it. Is that what you're talking about? No.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, like, the times that I would. We'd always go over to one of my. One of my friends in high school's house Friday night or whatever, and we'd always play with the Ouija board and, like, it would. We'd get, like, spooked out or weirded out and. But the only thing I can remember from a story is my sis. So I was friends with one sister. My sister was friends with the younger sister. They were. We were both in the same respective classes. So, like, we would have, like, we'd both sleep over at their house kind of thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And every time my sister was around the Ouija board, there's always one name that keep coming through for her, saying this entity was called Maeves. M A V E S. Okay, that's the only thing that I remember. I was like, who the hell is Maeves? Like, honestly, the other day I was wondering, like, who's Maeves?

[B]

Who is babes?

[C]

Is that her alter ego? Like, who is Maeves? And then I got my own. And even at home, I'd get Maeves. I'm like, what's going on here? Who's your. Is this your alter ego? Are you Googling who a Maevs is?

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Past life.

[B]

Yeah. No, it says it.

[C]

So we thought he might be like, English or something.

[B]

So it says, if you're thinking in a pop culture sense, you might mean Carol Danvers, better known as Captain Marvel. Some people mishear or mistype Marvel or Danvers as Maves, especially in the voice to text situations. It says a surname or a real person. Maeve is also a legitimate last name. There are various real individuals with that surname. Artists, academics, and everyday people, but no single globally famous mavs that dominates the name in its own. Yeah, so that's somebody's last name.

[C]

Interesting.

[B]

Yeah. Well, scientists have conducted various experiments to test these theories, most notably blindfold tests. When participants are blindfolded and the board is secretly rotated 180 degrees, they almost always continue to move the planchette toward where the letters used to be rather than where the letters actually are. This suggests that the messages are generated by the participants memories and spatial awareness rather than the external spirit that can see the board clearly. Despite this, psychological experience remains so convincing that the Ouija board continues to be a staple of both scientific study and paranormal lore.

[C]

That made me think we should try that as an experiment like.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

What. What's the. What's the thingamajig that we do with the.

[A]

The blindfold and the epi.

[B]

Estes method.

[A]

Yes, there you go.

[C]

Estes method. Yeah. So if there's just noise on in the headphones and they can't even hear the questions being asked, we should try it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It would take forever, but.

[B]

It would. But, you know.

[C]

Sorry, Bri, cut you off.

[A]

No, I was just saying. Yeah. Bam.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

How's it Green?

[C]

Bam.

[B]

Yeah, that's a good. I mean, what else are we going to do? An investigation? You know, we have, you know, 10 hours, so might as well knit a scarf.

[A]

Hey, there's some places that says do not bring a Ouija board, though.

[B]

That is true.

[A]

Yeah. So you gotta look at that because. I know, I remember there are some places like do not bring a Ouija board.

[B]

Yeah. Well. During the early 20th century, the Ouija board enjoyed a golden age of curiosity where. Where it was viewed as a mainstream, sophisticated and entirely wholesome household fixture. Throughout the 1920s, the board became a staple of American social life, frequently appearing at jazz age parties as a popular, popular icebreaker. Because the game required two people to sit facing each other with the board balanced on their knees and their fingertips touching the planchette, it was often marketed as a flirtatious social activity that allowed young men and women to interact in a way that was both intimate and socially acceptable. Yeah, we're going to touch fingers and knees. Knees and fingers are touching.

[C]

It's so scandalous.

[B]

During this time, the board was a regular feature in the leisure sections of newspapers rather than the occult sections. Treated with a sense of light hearted mystery rather than fear, the board's role in the American home deepened significantly during the Great Depression and World War II as nation faced immense economic hardship and the loss of loved ones overseas. The Ouija board provided a low cost form of entertainment and more importantly, a psychological sense of connection. For many, it wasn't about summoning demons, but rather a way to feel close to a husband or son who was thousands of miles away. Sales reached record breaking heights during these periods of national stress precisely because the board offered a glimmer of hope and a distraction from the grim realities of daily life. It was a time when the device was sold in high end department stores and gifted to children, Occupying a unique space in the American psyche as a bridge between a simple parlor game and a comforting spiritual tool.

[C]

I have an idea.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Or a question.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

What if you had. You each had a Ouija board. Could we talk to each other like a telephone?

[B]

That's a great question. We should try that.

[A]

That's a good experiment.

[B]

That's a. Yeah. I'm gonna have to go buy a Ouija board now.

[C]

Okay. Or we could play chess.

[A]

Of paper.

[B]

Yeah. No, I. I will. I would destroy you in chess.

[C]

So I don't believe that.

[A]

I was part of chess club in elementary school.

[C]

I was asked to be on chess club too, but I denied. Declined because cheerleading was more important. Practices overlapped.

[B]

Listen, whenever you want to play chess,

[C]

we're all going to chess it out.

[B]

We're gonna. Hey, you know what? On Big Bang Theory, Sheldon invented three person chess.

[C]

I do remember that episode.

[B]

Yeah. So we can do that. The release of the film The Exorcist in 1973 stands at the single most consequential event in the history of the Ouija board, effectively ending its era as a harmless parlor game and rebranding it as a vessel for evil. In the movie, the character Reagan McNeil is shown using a board alone to communicate with an entity she innocently calls Captain Howdy, which eventually leads to her violent demonic possession. This narrative choice by author William Peter Blatty and director William Friedkin tapped into a deep seated cultural nerve, transforming the board from a curious antique into a portal to hell in the eyes of the general public. Before the film's release, the primary skepticism surrounded the board was focused on whether it was a fake or a parlor trick. Afterward, the conversation shifted toward the spiritual danger of inviting malevolent entities into the home. The fallout from the Exorcist was immediate and widespread, Sparking a massive wave of religious and social backlash. In the years following the film, many religious organizations that had previously ignored the board, as a triviality, began to denounce it, leading to highly publicized instances of board burnings and warnings from clergy members. You know what the clergy members should have warned?

[A]

Stay away from them kids alone.

[B]

Yeah, pretty much. But. Sorry, go ahead.

[C]

Which one of us.

[B]

Weren't you about to say something?

[C]

I said, leave them kids alone.

[B]

No, before that. Before.

[C]

No, no. Yeah, I was, but I don't remember.

[B]

Oh, sorry.

[C]

Oh, I was asking, where were the clergy? Where was the church before 1973? Like.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Did it all of a sudden, like, the church bought into it and now they can use it as a propaganda thing? Is it?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Or did they all have like a aha Moment?

[A]

It's all not about that movie. They hated Exorcist.

[C]

Right.

[A]

So the fact that it was in the Exorcist, that's probably when they were just like, no, no, I don't.

[C]

It just gave them more ammo.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

To say, don't watch this movie or stay away from these activities.

[B]

I. I just think it was a tool to get the attendance up in church. I think that's what it was, in all honesty. Yeah. I don't think. I don't think they were thrilled about the movie either, but I'm pretty sure they're, you know, saw past that. But they kind of saw, oh, well, let's fear monger this and get more people in church, because then they're going to give more money to us and we can buy nicer things and be able to hide priests who keep touching kids.

[A]

Which never happened to you, allegedly.

[B]

This shift in perception was so powerful that it birthed a new genre of urban legends and safety rules that persist to this day, such as the belief that one must never use the board alone or in a graveyard. Rules that were essentially created to mirror the tragic mistakes made by the character in the film. While sales remained high, the context of the purchased changed. It was no longer bought as a wholesome family game, but as a dare or a tool for those specifically seeking a brush with the dark and the supernatural. Since the mid-1970s, the Ouija board has been firmly cemented in cinema and literature as a reliable shorthand for impending doom, evolving into one of the most recognizable tropes in horror genre. Filmmakers frequently use the board as a convenient plot device to trigger a haunting, moving the story from a state of normalcy into the supernatural without needing a complex backstory. This is most evident in modern franchises like Paranormal Activity and the Ouija film series, where the board serves as a physical manifestation of the character's curiosity and eventual vulnerability. Unlike its early days as a social game, its depiction today is almost exclusively dark. It is rarely shown as a tool for comfort, and instead portrayed as an unpredictable doorway that, once opened, is nearly impossible for the protagonist to close. This cinematic saturation has birthed a complex survival mythos that many people now mistake for ancient tradition. These modern tropes include the Rainbow Rule, which warns that a planchette moving In a figure 8 pattern indicates a demonic presence attempting to break free.

[C]

And I have never heard that.

[B]

Sorry, I have. I've heard that.

[A]

I've heard the figure eight pattern.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. But I feel like that's how all sessions start, right? I feel like everyone loosens their hands up if you call. So are they calling in something dark? And that's where this whole. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you.

[B]

No, not at all.

[C]

You're reading there. But I feel like every time we opened up a session, you kind of loosen your hands and wrists up by doing circles or figure eights.

[B]

Yeah, no, I agree.

[C]

And you say you're ready to start, and then. Is there anyone here? Question number one.

[B]

Yep. Yep. No. Agreed. Yeah, I think it's. Again, it's just more fear mongering, you know, then.

[C]

They're mongers, damn it.

[B]

And then also the silver coin myth, suggesting that placing a silver on the board offers a layer of protection against malevolent entities. No, the silver protects you from werewolves, vampires, Jeez. Perhaps the most pervasive trope is the goodbye requirement. The idea that if a session is not formally closed by moving the planchette to the bottom of the board, the spiritual connection rem active, allowing the entity to attach itself to the players or the location. These rules function as a form of modern folklore, heightened by the Internet era and the rise of paranormal YouTube creators who filmed themselves breaking these rules for views in the digital age. This trope has expanded further through the viral legend of Zozo, a supposed Ouija demon that became a global phenomenon through message boards and creepypastas. While there's virtually no historic record of an entity by the name associated with talking boards prior to the early 2000s, the Zozo narrative has become so ingrained in the modern trope that many people now fear it is a genuine historical threat. This highlights the board's unique power in pulp culture. It is an object that generates its own mythology in real time, fueled by feedback loop between Hollywood scripts, Internet rumors, and the genuine psychological tension of the dare that comes with playing saying, so I do want to use a ouija board and call upon Zozo just to see if it's real or not.

[C]

And then, well, you've said his name like three times, so he's probably already at your house. It's like the Beetlejuice rules, right?

[B]

Yeah, I think so. Zozo. Sozo. Zozo.

[A]

Do you remember the episode on your favorite show with about that?

[B]

Oh, yes, I do.

[C]

It was so. It was so, so stupid.

[B]

It was zozo. Stupid.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Oh, God, those guys that we haven't talked to them about in a long time. No, we should, we should. You know what? We should, we should reach out, see if they want to come to the podcast. Wouldn't that be awesome?

[A]

You do know we do have a connection.

[B]

Do we?

[A]

David Schrader.

[C]

We do, we do.

[B]

We do. Yeah.

[A]

You think he will remember you though? Because it's been a while since you talked to him.

[B]

No, I talked to him.

[C]

I stalk his social.

[B]

I do, I do. No, I'd say I messaged him.

[C]

Wasn't he just sick recently?

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And then like, I think something with his daughter too.

[B]

Yeah, him and I briefly talked like five, six months ago on Over Messenger. It was brief, but it was nice to, you know, say hi. So, yeah, I don't want to burn that bridge because I think what I would.

[C]

You might need it one day.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[D]

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[B]

And he's such a good guy. I don't want to really.

[C]

You always say that every time you're like, he was.

[A]

He's really, he's, he's awesome.

[B]

He's a genuinely nice, beautiful person. He really, really is.

[A]

He's one of those people. The way that he praised himself on TV is actually what you're going to get in person.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Like, like he is genuine all the way from being on TV to doing his own podcast to meeting him in person. Yeah, I agree. He's such a sweet man. So anyway, I don't like, I don't

[C]

like Bobo Baggins or Zozo.

[B]

I think I might like Zozo more than Bobo.

[C]

I think you do.

[B]

So first hand accounts of the Ouija board range from world famous literary sensations to the personal spiritual practices of major historical figures. These stories illustrate how the board was often viewed as a legitimate tool for creativity and guidance before it became a staple of the horror genre. So the literary mystery of Patience Worth, one of the most famous and well documented first hand accounts, began in 1913 with a St. Louis housewife named Pearl Curran. Despite having a limited education and no previous interest in writing, Curran began using a Ouija board and claimed to contact a 17th century English woman named Patience Worth. Over the next several years, Curran transcribed millions. Awards including complex novels, epic poems and witty plays, all dictated through the board. The quality of the writing was so high that it earned praise from the New York Times. And scholars of the era were baffled because the vocabulary included archaic English words that Curran likely didn't know. Whether viewed as a genuine haunting or a remarkable feat of Curran's own subconscious inner author, the case remains the most prolific example of Ouija driven literature in history. Bill Wilson and the founding of AA an often overlooked first hand account involves Bill Wilson, the co founder of Alcoholics Anonymous. Wilson was deeply interested in spiritualism and frequently used the Ouija board at his home which even featured a dedicated spook room. In his own writings and letters, Wilson described intense sessions where he believed he was receiving guidance from a 15th century monk named Boniface. He noted that while some messages were sheer nonsense or even malign, others provided comfort and advice that he felt helped him, during which he felt helped him during the period he was developing the 12 steps in other AA literature. For Wilson, the board was not a toy, but a serious tool in his lifelong quest for spiritual depth and a way to break through his own ego or find higher inspiration.

[A]

I thought this one was interesting because I didn't know the founder of AA had the Ouija board as inspiration for stuff.

[B]

No, that's actually fascinating. Especially when. When I. AA Also a requirement is to have a belief in a higher power. So that's pretty interesting. Do you think if we use the Ouija board, it can give us the winning lottery numbers?

[A]

You can try and.

[B]

Okay, we should do that.

[C]

Thing is, it's only supposed to serve your highest good. So if winning the lotto is just gonna make you become a degenerate who blows it on blow, then probably not.

[B]

Maybe that's just the my path to being a good guy. I need to hit rock bottom first and they're gonna help me do that.

[A]

Hey, don't forget the lottery curses from our previous episode.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Go Back to season one. Season one. I believe that was back in June of like 2024. Yes.

[A]

Right. Yeah.

[B]

Do you know what today is?

[A]

Is it our two year?

[B]

Today is our. Exactly. Our two year anniversary. We're recording this on April 28th. Today is exactly.

[C]

We haven't murdered each other yet.

[B]

I know. Amazing.

[A]

I think it helps that we're all not together, technically.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Because if you were still stuck in Frank's little room.

[B]

Yeah. You guys, you guys. I'm surprised I let you guys out, to tell you the truth.

[A]

Especially because you're by the door. We were not.

[B]

I know.

[A]

We're away from the door.

[B]

I know. But I mean, you guys are pretty good negotiators and I like the fact that you kept showing up.

[A]

And you also like the fact that we left.

[B]

Oh, 100. That was even better.

[C]

I only came for the free pizza.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

And the Portillo's non beef hot dog.

[B]

Yeah, Portillo sounds so good right now. I haven't eaten all day. My stomach was so upset today that we had a luncheon for one of our managers that's retiring this week and I didn't even eat. I just. I went and hung out and shared stories and stuff, but I. I have not eaten all day. But that sounds so good right now. Okay.

[A]

I had patuls on Saturday.

[B]

I get it. Okay? I get it. You. You have dollar bills to spend at Portillo's. Okay, Stop bragging.

[A]

That's our only eat out day. The only. Only time we ever eat out Saturday.

[C]

Everything else I cook.

[B]

Yeah. Okay. Well.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm sorry to hear that. Our next story is a pivotal firsthand account in the board's own history. Occurred in 1891 when the creator sought a patent for the device. The chief patent officer was skeptical and demanded a demonstration. If the board could accurately spell out his name, which is supposedly unknown to the inventors, he would approve the application. According to the account of Elijah Bond and his sister in law, Helen Peters, a reputed medium, they sat down at the board in a Washington D.C. office. To the officer's shock, the planchette accurately spelled out his name. Visibly shaken, the officer awarded the patent immediately. While skeptics suggest Bond might have simply researched the man's name beforehand, the official record of a successful supernatural demonstration remains a cornerstone of the Ouija legacy. Beyond the historical and famous cases, there are several chilling firsthand accounts from regular people that have become legendary and paranormal circles. These stories often highlight the three most common fears associated with the board accurate hidden information, physical attachments, and the phenomenon of the uninvited guest. So the case of the hidden address stands as a quintessential example of what researchers call veridical information, which occurs when a board provides specific verifiable data that was previously unknown to any of the participants. The most famous iteration of this account involves a group of skeptical friends in rural Ohio during the late 1990s who, after an hour of aimless movement, experienced a sudden shift in the planchette's behavior. The device reportedly became heavy and purposeful, ignoring conversational questions to repeatedly and rapidly spell out 4, 1, 2, Miller, followed by the town name, Mansfield. This string of information was so persistent that one of the participants, a college student, recorded the details despite having personal connection to the town or any knowledge of a street by that name. The true chilly nature of the story emerged the following morning when the student conducted research in a local library's digitized newspaper archives. They discovered.

[C]

I can't believe we used to do it that way.

[B]

I know. At microfiche. They discovered that 412 Miller street in Mansfield has been the site of a notorious unsolved disappearance for 20 years prior to a case that had gone cold long before any of the participants were old enough to read or follow the news. Because the group was nearly three hours away from Mansfield, they had no ties to the area. The accuracy of the address felt impossible to attribute to simple guesswork. While believers argue that this is a genuine attempt by a spirit to draw attention to a cold case, skeptics point to a psychological theory called cryptonisia, suggesting that a participant may have subconsciously retained the address from an old true crime broadcast or headline, only for the brain to release that forgotten data through the ideometer effect during the high focus environment of the session.

[A]

And this is what Ladette was talking about earlier.

[B]

Yeah, the legacy of the hidden.

[C]

Not ideal moment or idiot meter. Whatever.

[B]

Idiot meter.

[A]

It's the idiot meter now.

[B]

The legacy of the hidden address serves as a frequent warning in paranormal circles about the potential for a board to bridge the gap between a private living room and a tragic real world event. According to the original account, the student who verified the address began experiencing unsettling physical phenomena afterwards, specifically hearing three distinct heavy knocks on their own front door at exactly 4:12am for several weeks. Whether the subsequent events were a genuine haunting or a manifestation of the post session anxiety, the case remains a pillar of Ouija lore because it moves the experience beyond simple ghost stories and into the realm of verifiable historical tragedy. Well, that's interesting. The Stuck Goodbye is a harrowing first hand account that originated in the late 1990s among a group of college students in Pennsylvania, highlighting one of the most feared glitches in Ouija, the inability to terminate a session. According to the narrative, the group had begun communicating with an entity that initially seemed cooperative, but the atmosphere shifted dramatically when they collectively decided to end the experience. Every time the participants attempted to manually guide the planchette to the goodbye space at the bottom of the board, they reported a physical resistance so powerful it felt as though the plastic piece was being magnetically repelled. The planchette would either violently snap back to the center of the board or pull toward the no corner, effectively trapping the students in the conversation against their will.

[C]

No means no.

[B]

This is true. These spirits just don't understand.

[C]

They need to know boundaries.

[B]

Yeah, this is. This is an example of toxic spirituality

[C]

as this an abusive spiritual relationship.

[B]

As the struggle continues, the physical environment of the dorm room reportedly began to change, with the temperature dropping so sharply that the students could see their breath despite the building's central heating being active. One of the participants described a sensation of intense suffocating pressure on their chest, a common physical symptom reported in high anxiety paranormal encounters. The situation only reached a climax when the wooden board itself supposedly emitted a loud gunshot like crack and split down the center while all four students still had their fingers on the planchette.

[C]

No.

[B]

Yeah, I. Yeah, that'd be pretty cool to be a part of that.

[C]

I want my money back.

[B]

This sudden physical destruction of the medium finally broke the session, but it did not provide the closure the group had hoped for. The aftermath of the stuck goodbye is often cited by paranormal researchers as a classic example of a. A residual ha or an attachment following a botched closing ritual. For months after the board broke, the students claimed that electronic devices in their suite, particularly a bedside alarm clock and a desktop radio, would malfunction at the exact time the session had taken place each night. Even after the broken board was removed from the premises, the student reported the persistent sound of light scratching coming from the inside of the walls of the room where the goodbye was refused. This story remains a cornerstone of modern Ouija cautionary tales, reinforcing the pop culture rule that a session is never truly over until the entity allows the planchette to reach the bottom of the board. I don't know about that because that's giving way too much power to the entity. Because it says the entity allows the plan like, we have the power.

[C]

Well, if the entity is Karate Kid and just.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Through a wooden board.

[B]

Yeah. But I am. I am the offspring of Chuck Norris.

[A]

Sure. Okay. Next.

[B]

Next is the knock account. The Knock account is a renowned piece of paranormal lore that perfectly illustrates the concept of physical mediumship, where an entity reportedly moves from spelling words on a board to interacting directly with the physical environment. This story typically centers on a group of young adults in the early 2000s who were using a Ouija board in a quiet suburban home. After appeared a relatively standard communication, one of the more skeptical participants challenged the alleged spirit to provide proof of its presence that couldn't be attributed to the player's own muscles.

[C]

Probably because they were watching a lot of Bobo.

[B]

Yeah, 100%. See, he's such a bad influence.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Such a horrible person. He's such a bad influence on kids.

[C]

You know, poor children.

[B]

Yeah, they. They want. They want proof that leads. Right.

[C]

Demand it now.

[B]

Right. And that leads right to heroin. I don't. You know, it's a slippery slope.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

According to the firsthand testimony, the planchette did not hesitate. It slowly and deliberately spelled out the word K, N, O, C, K. The true terror of the account lies in the immediate physical response that followed the final letter. Just as the planchette reached the quay, three distinct thunderous raps echoed through the room. Crucially, the participants claimed the sound did not come from a wall or a door, but from inside the heavy wooden oak table upon which the board was resting. The true terror of the account lies in the immediate physical response that followed the final letter, just as the planchette. Oh, did I already read that?

[A]

Oh, yeah, it repeated. Sorry.

[B]

No worries.

[A]

My bad.

[B]

It's okay. Paranormal researchers often cite the knock account as a classic example of intelligent haunting, where an entity demonstrates an understanding of a specific request and responds in real time. Skeptics, however, point to a phenomenon known as acoustic emission, where changes in temperature. Yeah, changes in temperature or the collective weight of multiple people leaning on an old wooden table can cause the wood to expand or contract, resulting in loud popping or knocking sounds.

[A]

I always get interested on the scientific excuses people come up with.

[C]

Acoustics excuses.

[B]

Yeah, I agree. Like, like, I always refer back to JFK and the magic bullet theory, where one bullet created these seven different injuries on two people and where one. At one point, the bullet would have had to have stopped in midair and make a 90 degree turn to continue on its path. And they say, well, well, you know, with physics, we. We could make this happen. Like, yeah, but that's not happening in Dallas in a limo. You know, like, it drives me crazy. Like, they just have an answer for everything. They're just gonna make up. And I love science.

[C]

Science is fake.

[B]

Don't get me started.

[C]

Otherwise you're gonna wick and burn yourself from the inside out.

[B]

You know what's funny about that is that I watched again. I watched John Wick last night.

[C]

Did he catch on fire from the inside out?

[B]

No, he did not. But his name is John Wick. Great movie.

[E]

Movies.

[A]

I still haven't finished the third one yet.

[B]

Oh, Jesus. So regardless of the cause, the story has become a cornerstone of Ouija board safety discussions, serving as a warning that asking for proof may invite a physical manifestation that the participants are not prepared to handle. The account remains a favorite on paranormal forums because it bridges the gap between psychological game of the board and the visceral shared sensory experience that left a lasting mark on everyone involved. The story of the Shadow man of the 1990s is a premier cautionary tale within Ouija lore, specifically highlighting the consequences of breaking the cardinal rule. Never play alone. The account centers on a young man who, during a period of intense curiosity about the occult, decided to conduct a solo session in his bedroom late at night. You know what? As a young.

[C]

They don't say why.

[B]

I know they don't, but, like, as a young man, I performed many solo sessions in my bedroom late at night.

[A]

Oh, I'm pretty sure you did.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You probably still do.

[B]

Oh, I mean, not late at night. Cause I'm. I'm. I. I need to sleep. I'm old now. But, yes, there are. There are solo sessions.

[C]

It's mid afternoon.

[B]

Yeah, it's my. It's my solo session. Afternoon delights.

[C]

I was just gonna say that unlike

[B]

a typical group session where the planchette spells out words, he reported that the device merely moved in a rapid, repetitive circular motion for nearly an hour, provided

[C]

then let go an hour.

[B]

Right. Like, my arms would be so tired. So tired that there would be no solo session later. That's how tired they would be.

[C]

Yeah, if I work from home, I would just put my. My mouse on it and it be the little mouse jiggler.

[B]

And I am not touching that at all. So many ways I can go with that.

[A]

So I think we're all thinking it too, so go ahead.

[B]

So, providing no legible messages, but creating a heavy standard, like tension in the air.

[C]

Oh, my God. What were you thinking? I wasn't thinking that.

[B]

Okay. Feeling disappointed with the lack of communication. I'm just Gonna move forward, guys. He eventually.

[C]

I know.

[B]

Brie is about to fall off her chair.

[E]

Jesus.

[B]

Oh, we haven't gone off the rails in a long time. This is actually a breath of fresh air.

[C]

My stomach hurts.

[B]

He eventually put the board away and went to bed, only to be jolted awake a few hours later by a primal sense of being watched. The centerpiece of this firsthand account is the description of the entity itself, A void like figure standing in the corner of the room that the witness described as being darker than the dark. Unlike a natural shadow cast by furniture or moonlight, this figure appeared as a three dimensional silhouette that seemed to absorb the ambient light around it, possessing no discernible facial feature other than the terrifying still posture. According to the original testimony, the shadow man did not move or speak, but its presence was accompanied by a distinct sulfurous odor and an overwhelming feeling of dread. This figure reportedly returned every night for a week, appearing in different corners of the room. And the witness claimed his dog would growl and cower at the empty space, even when the man tried to convince himself he was hallucinating. Paranormal researchers and skeptics often debate the nature of this encounter, with many pointing to a classic case of sleep paralysis triggered by the high stress suggestible state of using a Ouija board alone. In sleep paralysis, the brain is awake while the body remains immobilized, often resulting in shadow person hallucinations that feel undeniably real to the sufferer.

[C]

What?

[B]

Yeah, I don't like this at all.

[C]

How many people have they studied with sleep paralysis who have talked about shadow people?

[B]

Quite a bit. That's actually.

[C]

I thought it was always the thing sitting on you.

[B]

It. It manifests different ways.

[A]

Yeah. Some people will describe it as like a shadow person.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's where they got their name as watchers as well.

[C]

Oh, like that. That show?

[B]

No, I don't know what show you're talking about, but no.

[C]

The mailbox.

[B]

The mailbox, the house.

[C]

The true story. They would get letters in the. Whatever.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

Oh, yeah, I. I know what you're talking about. No, totally different, so. However, the witness maintained that the experience was physical and external, eventually leading to him to seek a religious cleansing of his home and the disposal of the board. The story gained significant traction in the 1990s through early Internet paranormal boards and zines. I've never heard of that. Do you guys know what that is? No. All right. Eventually becoming a foundational narrative for the shadow person phenomenon that remains a staple of modern supernatural discussions. So this story came from Reddit user Throwitamida My mom and aunt used a board after their dad died. He had remarried but had told his daughters that he was leaving them a few things in his will, including some money. His second wife was the executor and was saying he hadn't left the money.

[C]

Executor? Not an executor.

[B]

Did I say executor?

[C]

Sure did.

[B]

Oh, sorry. Exactly.

[A]

Yeah, you did.

[B]

That's my bad. Just, you know, I'm just filling in the gas.

[C]

I know where your brain's at.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Women killing men. So the executor and was saying he hadn't left them money, etc. Etc. Sorry, I can't remember exactly what she apparently said. Anyway, mom and her sister thought it was possible the money wasn't left to them after all like the second wife said. But my aunt was really strapped for cash and they felt like it was also possible the second wife was withholding info and money. They apparently managed to get their dad via the Ouija board and asked him whether he had left money. In his will it spelled out a three letter acronym for a bank and then a series of numbers. Turns out he had. He had. Turns out he had did have a bank account. That's weird. With money in it intended for his daughters. The account matched the bank acronym and account number. This one spooked me because the details were a surprise to mom and my aunt. I don't know how they could have gotten that info out of thin air. Another story from Reddit user. I'm a stay at home dad. My brother is seven years older than me and the story goes like this. My parents rented a house that my mom's aunt and uncle owned in the late 70s. The aunt committed suicide in the early 60s in the back bedroom of the top floor. Shortly after my brother was born, they decided to use the Ouija board to try and contact her aunt. After a few questions and inquiries, they asked a question that prompted the board to respond with M O V E J A y move J My brother's name is Jason, goes by Jason. They moved his crib to their room. A short few days later, a massive storm caused a tree band tree branch to crash through my brother's bedroom window. It landed where his crib would have been. That's creepy if that's real. I like that.

[C]

Right?

[B]

And this came from Reddit user Turo. This was late summer 2011. I'm in an EU country, so none of this was in English. I was 15. Me and my friend did it. I drew up the Board on a large piece of paper, lit the candles, entered a meditative state. I was the conduit for the experience. We used a small shot glass turned upside down. I don't remember the first question, or how many, or how my reaction was to when it first moved. We were sitting on the floor in my room with the board on a rectangular subwoofer acting as a small table. Of course it was a subwoofer. We place only the tip of our finger on the glass, resting his at 12 o' clock and mine at 6. Had one of us moved our fingers to try to influence the glass, it would simply rotate in an awkward way, which we tried. After we asked many questions to the entity, lifting up the glass and whispering into it, Is there someone that wants to communicate with us? Then placing it down again on our designated start circle, the glass moved to yes. We asked for a name and so followed a series of questions and answers. Lars died in 1947. He had no connection to the building. I don't recall if we asked him something more, but after that I said farewell and gave my thanks as I felt it to be mundane at the time. I then asked this very question, starting with six all the way up to nine. When I reached nine, it moved to no instead of the previous yes. So we settled for eight. Is there someone from the eighth dimension that we can communicate with? Yes. What's your name? O, N, K, U. How old are you? And then it proceeds to move to the drawn up number pad with 0 through 9 and quickly directed the glass across six figures starting with 4, 3, then so on, meaning it was over 400,000 years old. Me and my friend then asked the entity a series of ridiculous and to us, fascinating questions at the time, some personal, some scientific, etc. It was all well and good. The communication was impressive to me. The glass moved with a sharp and clear intent for each answer, like someone grabbed the base of the upside down glass and swiftly moved it to each letter, sometimes spelling words so fast we couldn't keep up and lost some meaning. But I wanted something more. Can you show us a visual sign? Yes. I didn't want anything to happen inside my room, so I asked, can you show us outside if we go to the balcony? Yes. Should we go outside now? No. We asked some more questions unrelated, and after about five minutes or so I asked again. Is it time for us to go outside now? Yes. Me and my friend stood up and went out to the balcony in a. Alright. Don't know what to expect, but here we go. Type attitude. It was almost bright outside. The time was 4am mid August. The street lights were off, but it was still early dawn. From our vantage point of a second floor apartment, we noticed that. We noticed what we first thought was a rock behind a small shed across the road to the right of the resident parking lot. We then realize that it's a black cat. It sat mesmerized by something behind the shed, out of our view. It then moves to the left, our eyes following until it's straight ahead of us. Just as it lays down under one of the cars, a white orb of light appears about six feet above the ground. It appeared out of nowhere. The orb itself was about the size of a basketball. The light was solid and pure. It was white, but did not reflect. It wasn't bright in the sense that it was fuzzy. It was bright like it was a puncture of matter or space time. It made a quick floating swoosh or swing and was gone just as quickly as it had appeared. When it was gone, I looked at my friend to my left and he looked at me stunned, with his mouth open. Literally. We look towards the same spot again and it almost instantly appears again like a confirmation that we did indeed see what we saw. This time it performed a longer swinger swoosh that came from the right instead. We stayed amazed for about 10 minutes and then went back inside. Was the orb of light the sign? I asked. Yes. It was never really scary. It was just a feeling of wonderful. The last time I did it was in 2014. Never seen anything like the orb again though. Now that would be cool. I want to do that. So this story comes From Reddit user smilesinthedark.

[C]

Creepy.

[B]

When I was 12, a few girlfriends and I were using a Ouija board while hanging out at my best friend's house. We asked a bunch of questions that I don't really remember the answers to, except for the fact that the board said one girl would die from murder. She is still alive today. The story I'm about to tell you is what I will never forget. Well, I mean, you don't start with that, right? You're like, you save that for the end.

[C]

All right, so maybe she didn't want her post to be pulled down.

[B]

Oh, maybe.

[C]

Maybe.

[B]

Yeah. All right. When it came for us to ask questions about me, I asked. I would. I asked who I would marry, how many kids I would have, how I would die. And when the board spelled out a guy's name that I did not know and said I would marry him and have two Boys. My best friend scoffed, yeah right. Give us his number. We laughed but it spelled out the number. It was in our local area code. So she wrote the number down on a piece of paper, grabbed the phone and called it. This was years before cell phones. We all crowded around the handset to listen. A woman answered and my friend. My friend asked for the guy by name. A sweet sounding woman on the phone said he wasn't home and asked if my friend wanted to leave a message. We all freaked out and my friend slammed the phone down. We were giggling and freaking out at the crazy coincidence as young girls are apt to do. The board also said I would die of fever at 74. We all thought it was weird too. I remember 12 year old me thinking who dies of a fever? Dumb. But that was what I thought. I don't remember much else about what happened with the board that day beyond that as what happened afterwards overshadowed everything else. Weird things started happening in my best friend's house when I was over and they were really frightening. I won't go into it here, but it was really dark and we knew we had messed up by playing with a board. Fast forward two years later I start dating my first real boyfriend. His name was the same as the name of the guy I the board said I would marry. Coincidence, right? Wrong. When my best friend was packing up to move, she found the piece of notebook paper in the box with the Ouija board. It was my boyfriend's number. They were not friends. There is no way she could have known it, written it down and played it off. We were both freaked out. I told my boyfriend we had been dating. We had been dating for about a year at this point point. And he told me his mom. He and we told his mom about it. She said she remembered a weird call from a couple years back where girls were giggling and hung up. This coincidence bothered her badly and I wish we never told her. She was a very religious preschool teacher with a sweet voice. Great lady. I did not marry him. We dated for years and I really thought we would get married. But I broke it off and moved away during a difficult time in my life life. He eventually married someone else with whom he has two sons. I never had children. Ouija boards are bad news. I don't know how or why they work and some of the answers were off in my case. But what was correct and the weird things that happened in my friend's house after after. What does it say? Weird things that happen in my friend's house after bother me sometimes. Even 25 years later, I would never, ever touch one again.

[A]

They just forgot a comma there.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. Reddit doesn't have grammar check.

[B]

It's okay. I was just. It just looked weird to me.

[C]

Words are hard words.

[B]

Aha. So I really want to do the Ouija board and try to get into a meditative state, to be the. The whatchamacallit, the.

[C]

You have to practice meditating first.

[B]

I know. I do practice.

[C]

Are you getting better?

[B]

No, I still suck, so. But yeah. Yeah. We gotta do Ouija. We gotta do Ouija time. Oh, you know what? That would be a great segment. Ouija time. And then we just kind of do the Ouija.

[C]

What?

[A]

You know, so dirty.

[B]

We do the Ouija. You know, it's like doing a movie, but we're doing the Ouija.

[C]

Oh, no, no.

[B]

Okay. And so the Ouija board remains silent, still, until it isn't just a slab of letters and numbers waiting patiently for the next set of curious hands to awaken. Maybe it's nothing more than the mind playing tricks in the dark. Or maybe it's something that's been waiting just long enough to be noticed. Because the truth is, its power has never come from the board itself. It comes from the moment you decide to ask. For over a century, it has lived in that uneasy space between logic and legend, where science offers answers and experience quietly disagrees. Some people walk away laughing, brushing it off as a harmless game. Others leave with something they can't quite explain, and sometimes something that doesn't quite leave with them. Because the real mystery isn't whether the planchette moves, it's why. It knows where to go, why it answers questions no one asked out loud, why it feels like something is listening even after your hands are gone. So if you ever find yourself in a quiet room, fingertips resting lightly on that small wooden pointer, waiting, listening, hoping for a response, just remember this. Because once it answers, it doesn't always stop. And once something knows your voice, it knows how to find you again. So the next time the planchette starts to move, don't ask what's coming through. Ask yourself what just opened the door. So you know what I've always wondered? You know, how is Starbucks that has, like, board games, like, in the corner that you could play, or is that Panera?

[C]

Neither Panera.

[B]

I think no one of them do it. I think Starbucks.

[C]

Some Starbucks used to be Caribou.

[B]

Yeah, maybe that's why I'm thinking Caribou.

[A]

I want to say I remember Starbucks. Ever I read it in Panera.

[C]

No, they they just want your money. They don't want you to hang out.

[B]

Well, we should find a place that just has, like, you know, random board games for you to hang out and do whatever.

[C]

The brewery in Geneva.

[B]

Okay, perfect. We should go there, but with a Ouija board and just start playing it and see. I mean, it's. It's a board game. It's made by Parker Brothers. You know, like, how freaked out do you think people would get? And how fast would we get. Would we get kicked out?

[A]

You want to be interesting? That. That haunted restaurant in Geneva.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Take it. Go to. Go to dinner there. But take one with us and do it in place right in the middle of, like, the dinner table. Bam.

[B]

Yeah, we could.

[E]

We can.

[B]

We can ask questions like, how much should I tip the waitress?

[A]

And it goes to zero.

[C]

Oh, man.

[B]

Sorry. Sorry.

[C]

The board said so.

[B]

Would you guys. I know Lynette has. Would you play with one again?

[C]

Yeah, I ordered a handmade one. Did you really need to. Yeah, it's like, hand etched.

[A]

Like, I was like, wait, how do you order a handmade one? Not you meant, like, you would handmade

[C]

it, but you ordered. Oh, no. Etsy.

[B]

Etsy. I want to go to, like, one of those metaphysical shops or, like, even, like an estate sale and try to find, like, a really old one that's been used by other people.

[A]

I might be going to a board museum in Salem.

[B]

Yeah, if they have ones for sale, let me know.

[A]

I will. Well, they have a lot of people stores there, so there probably will be one.

[B]

Jumanji. That would be great.

[A]

Oh, Jumanji.

[C]

I always wanted to play that game. It looks so cool.

[B]

Yeah, no, it gets sucked in. I would die. Right? Right away.

[A]

Yeah, you would.

[B]

Yeah. Bri, would you play with wood?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, I think in the past I wouldn't, but, like, after more and more, like, I. Like, I don't. I feel like I could do it now.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Before I was, like, always scared. Like, what if you don't close it? But, yeah, you gotta be smart about it.

[B]

I mean, do you.

[A]

I mean, some people.

[B]

Okay. All right. Yeah, I think we should do one and then put it up on our YouTube. Like, film it and put it up on YouTube. Thoughts.

[C]

And our only fans.

[B]

Oh. Oh, for sure. For sure.

[A]

Our one fan.

[C]

You mean your feet. Your feet on the planet.

[B]

Our. Our only. Oh, dude, that would be. Oh, God, that's so amazing. Why didn't I not think of that? I love it. All right, well, thanks for listening, everyone.

[C]

On that note.

[B]

Yep. On that note. Thanks for listening. Like, follow, share, review, share again. Give us a high five. High five. Ladies, anything else you'd like to add?

[A]

Nope.

[C]

Nope. This is fun.

[B]

All right.

[C]

You should just make your own. Just get a shot glass and a piece of paper.

[B]

Yeah, no, I like to be eccentric. That's not eccentric to me, so. Yeah. Well, thank you for listening. My name is Frank.

[C]

I'm Brie. My name's Lynette.

[B]

And you've been listening to Fringe Beyond Limits, Sam.