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Episode 2 Recap (Feat. Jason Belmonte): The Unofficial Born To Bowl Podcast
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- [00:00]
A
Welcome to the unofficial Born to Bowl podcast. I'm your host Jared Pullen, and on this episode we dive deeper into all things episode number two of Born to Bowl, where the focus was Anthony Simonson as well as Jason Belmonte. Now, if you haven't checked out the latest episode, episode two, it is currently streaming on hbo. New episodes come out every Monday for the next couple of weeks. Because there are five total episodes, we're two in currently. Which means if my math is correct, there's three more more episodes to wrap up this season. So they premiere at 9:00pm Eastern Time on HBO Linear as well as HBO Max. It's in the United States and Canada and maybe in the future it will come to other countries, but if that gets announced, I will be sure to share with you to let you know what countries it's available in. Now, in this episode, not only am I going to break down some of the bigger moments of episode number two of Born to Bowl, but I have a sit down interview with Jason Belmonte. We go into everything about gearing up for this week's Masters to why his parents opted to open a bowling center in Australia of all places, but also know the fact that they never bowled a ball in their life and decided to open a bowling center. That's pretty interesting. I also go into who Jason thinks is the greatest bowler of all time and where he sees himself on that list and a lot more. Oh, we also touch base on why he left the lane when he was bowling against Cameron to go back to the paddock to get another ball. And some people online think he was trying to ice Cameron when if you just look at the actual facts and how it all happened, I mean, it comes across as hey Cameron, I'm going to go get another ball and you can finish up your frame. It was a 10th frame. Was there gamesmanship? Does Jason play into gamesmanship? Does anybody else out there in the PBA prescribe to some gamesmanship from time to time? Well, Jason's going to talk about that and a lot more in our sit down. So kicking off episode number two of Born to Bowl, it comes out firing. I mean, Simo goes off, Simo goes nuts. And it's not the first time that Simo has ever gone off during a competition, as you'll find out in the episode or found out already. He talks about being one of the most fined, if not the most fined person in PBA history. Is that a fact? I don't know because Pete Webber was suspended for an entire season, which means he probably lost a couple of hundred thousand dollars at his prime when he was bowling because he was kind of banned for a season. Now, there's a lot of talk online about this part of the episode as well, where Simo says, how about if I throw it like that, dick face? And there's people talking about how Simo acted on the lanes. Now, I know this from watching Simo for years is that he bowls better. And actually Kevin Williams said this, that when he's bowling bad and he's trying to change things up, he might flip out every once in a while because usually it's Simo against the world, and the world usually loses because Simo gets on tilt and just goes nuts and he just starts striking and striking and striking. And does that make it right? Does that make it wrong? Well, that's for you guys to decide. But what I'll say is, in most other sports, you don't get to see or hear them miked up at the time of what's going on. I mean, we see it in baseball, there's arguments. You see it in football, you see it in high basketball, it doesn't matter. In sports, there might be arguments with coaches from time to time. And usually you don't have a film crew there to document it and to see it happen, but it does happen. But Anthony, in my opinion, is one of the nicest guys. He acts one way on the lanes, and then as soon as the bowling is over. Is there anything, anything else you need? I mean, I remember a couple years ago, after he lost at the US Open, he. Right before he left, he came over and he goes, is there anything else you guys need? And mind you, he just lost. So he wasn't going to be happy about losing, but he was like, what else do you need? Okay, we're good. And he moved on. Right. He's always helping other people. And so that's one thing about Anthony I know, is that he cares deeply about people and them doing well, and yet he acts a certain way on the lanes. He's passionate about it, whether. Whether it's right or wrong to yell at your ball rep for saying, well, if you wrap your. If you throw it like that, you're gonna get five every time. You never know what's gonna happen. Right? So not justifying it, but not taking anything away from exactly what you saw. So you see exactly what's going on there. Now, on the other Belmo leaving the lane against Cameron Crowe, and the way that I look at it is he went to get another ball in the paddock and Told Cameron that he could finish bowling. And from there, Cameron was in the 10th frame. So the dick. The more dick move would have been leaving and saying wait like 3, 4 minutes to then finish to strike and beat Belmo at the time. So, I mean, that's kind of my take on it. I don't really think it was that big of a deal, personally. But, yeah, I don't know who complained. I don't know who put in the complaint that brought out the tour rep to ask the question. And Belmo will go into much more detail about that now. One of my favorite parts of the episode was seeing Cam and Dino go in to the ball truck. One of my favorite parts of being out there on the road from time to time is going onto the ball truck. The ball truck, which we don't explain a ton about right there is there's two 18 wheelers that basically park next to each other and they equal a big space. And inside there you have Sully, who's like, tour services, and he helps all the bowlers. So the way that it works is on this truck, you have hundreds upon hundreds of just blank bowling balls, right? So they're anywhere from 16 pounds, probably 14 pounds and change, or 15.3, 15, 2, all the different ounces that are in there. So if you're represented by, say, Storm, you can go onto the ball truck with the ball rep, and they're like, all right, let's drill a ball. They pick the ball, they lay the ball out. You could lay it out yourself. You give it to Sully and you let them drill it. And I believe they do pay to drill the ball on the road. So, yeah, they have to pay to drill the ball, but the ball itself is free. And I know that some of the guys will throw for, like, I don't know, 20 games, and then the ball will get given away or something. You know, if there's a kid, they'll sign it and give the ball to the kid. Or, I mean, they're still usable balls, but there's a difference when the ball, you know, stops doing what they wanted to do. I mean, for me, like, I'm not going to throw a ball out after 20 games because, well, I'm not a pro and I'm not good enough for that to affect me enough to. To lead to me, like, not being, you know, any better. So anyway, I just. It's not the ball, it's me. It's just the same thing that is true all the time. But you go on there and they're Talking about positive access points or pap. And I'm like, what the. I don't even know what that is. And so that's where we break into talking about. There's terminology. You may never know what it is. And that's perfectly fine. If we do have more time at any point, it would be amazing to dive into the science, to dive into these terms, but do it in a way that is still interesting to the people that know nothing about bowling. That's like a goal. And that's been a goal of mine with the show altogether. But I thought it was great to go onto the ball truck. I go onto the ball truck and sometimes I get to leave with a ball because I talk to the ball reps and I'm like, can I get a ball? And it's. If there's a lot of them, I'm not going to take, like, if there's like one left, I'm not going to. I'm not going to do it, but I can do it. What's cool is my span and numbers are left on the truck just, you know, so they can drill it for me. It's just so cool that you can go in there and do that because I think a lot of people feel that the balls come pre drilled from the manufacturer, when in fact they don't. They're blank. And you have to drill it when you get it, which is kind of cool. All right, so on the episode, you also see Simo trying to climb the ladder. You want to see if he's. He talks about it himself that he doesn't want to finish in fifth place because there's two shows. At the U.S. open. That year, they did two TV shows. One on one night and then one the next day on Sunday, which is not normal. It's just. I guess they had to fill some hours they had to fill. Fill some slots for Fox at the time or whoever else it was. And that's just how it fell. So Simo was trying to move up into fourth position or higher so that he didn't have to get warm again because of his bad back. Well, lo and behold, he finishes in fifth, which is obviously not bad when you go through the tournament and you're in the top nine and you see Cam come up to him and say, what position? What place did you finish in? And he goes fifth. And Cam's like, oh, no. And he's just like, yep, I suck. I suck. And it's like, what do you. What do you. I finished. And camp's like, I finished 10 below you. Right. It's just like, you know, but that's. Simo just, just needed to vent, just needed to get it out. Gets warm for the, the one match he bowled on TV because he was the head of the, the first, the second step ladder or whichever way you want to say first or second. And he ends up bowling on Sunday, right? Because he wins his match, he beats him. I forget who he played. Daugherty. And then it's like no place I'd rather be than Woodland bowl on a Sunday. And that's where the show ends. Really good soundtrack to that one. I think it was a pretty action packed episode and obviously we're going to get to the conclusion of the US Open when we get into the third episode and I think we dive deeper into E.J. tackett in the next episode. But yeah, there's so much that goes on and, you know, it's a short, it's like 28 minutes the episode, but there's a lot. It's action packed. And what's great is I think people love it. I think you got people that are bowlers that love it and you have people that aren't bowlers that are like, I love this. But you're going to find people in this episode who are like, I love Simo, even if he's yelling. And then you have people like, I don't like Simo because he yelled at someone, or I don't like Bellmo because I think he's playing games. I don't think he's playing games in this situation. I mean, maybe he is maybe, is maybe just a little bit, maybe subconsciously. But in this situation, I don't think it was happening. But we'll get the facts from the horse's mouth because I sat down with Belmo while he's at the Masters and He has a 6:30 block at night. So we sat down for an interview at 11 in the morning and we ended up talking for over an hour. So here it is, the interview with Jason Belmonte. All right, Belmo, thank you for joining us during a busy Masters week. I can only assume that it's going to be a super tough week.
- [11:16]
B
G', day, Jared. Yes, mate. Ah, look, every bloody week out here is a, is a tough week, to be honest. But yeah, when the, when the majors roll around, there's always that little bit of, little bit of extra that you feel, you know, the fans give a little extra. All the players definitely give a little extra. So, yeah, I suppose it's a big week. Yeah. We're all feeling it.
- [11:38]
A
Well, how hard is the Masters? I mean, I know there's over 300 and some people that are amateurs can enter the Masters.
- [11:46]
B
Yeah, this is one of the unique events of the season where it literally is first in best dressed in terms of entries. They just open up the portal and anyone can enter as long as you're a USB C member. So you asked if this was a difficult tournament to win and you're gonna probably laugh at the answer that I'm gonna give you, but it is the honest truth, it is equally the hardest tournament and also the easiest tournament to win. And the reason for that, and let me explain a little a little further for your listeners, is this tournament is broken into two halves. The first half is qualification where the top 64 players make it into a 64 man bracket. And then that 64 man bracket plays a double elimination, 1v1 3 game total match. So why I say it's, it's difficult is you could be knocked out of the tournament having the second highest three game set of the day. You just happen to play the guy who had the highest three game set and so you can then on the flip side of that have the second lowest three game set and win your match if you happen to play the guy with the lowest three game set. So it doesn't necessarily mean to win this tournament you must average the highest, you just have to win your matches. However that is low, medium, high scoring, doesn't matter, just get through your matches all the way to TV and then it's a one game match for the title.
- [13:24]
A
This year it's a one game. Last year Anthony was faced with a two game. He won the first one and then lost to Gary Haynes in the second one.
- [13:32]
B
Well, actually, you know, I don't know, I, I very rarely read the, the entry forms these days. But is it, has it gone back to the one game on tv, not the, not the two game elimination?
- [13:43]
A
I honestly don't know. I, I meant to check that the other day because I don't recall. I, I just think it's, I don't know, I can't give that answer. We'll have to.
- [13:50]
B
Yeah, well, either way, if you're the top, say that the Premise of the MA of the match play of the 60 more 64 man bracket is it is a double elimination. So for as long as I've ever bowled this tournament, once you get to tv, if you are the number one seed, meaning you went through the bracket undefeated, you would, you could lose the title by Losing one game. And I know a lot of players and even fans would say, oh, that's really unfair because, you know, every other player had the opportunity to lose somewhere along the way and still be in the tournament. And so that was. That was the number one seeds, I suppose. Curse was you're undefeated until the last game and you lose the title. But, you know, I've had a very fortunate run at the Masters, where I've won it four times. And the four times that I've won it have all been different, different ways to get there. I've been the number one qualifier. I've been the number one seed onto tv. I've been the fifth qualifier. I've been the fourth qualifier. I think I was even the third qualifier one time when I won it. So, you know, I'm kind of happy with however they do it because I've done all right at this tournament.
- [15:04]
A
Obviously, we know that born to bowl is going on. I'm going to shift gears here, but we're not even going to get into the born to bowl aspect yet. I kind of want to go back to your parents, like, what possessed them to decide, with no background in bowling, to open up a bowling center in Australia?
- [15:22]
B
Yeah, it's kind of, I think, my whole family story, especially when you hear it from your grandparents and from your parents, when you were told the story, it's quite romantic, to be honest. So it was. The story goes, it was. We live in. To give more context, I live in a really small country town about four hours west of Sydney, inland of Sydney. So with the kangaroos and all the wildlife and, you know, very close to the outback, we're getting closer to the outback. And we had family from Sydney visit my parents before I was born. And it was raining in my town and there was. There's nothing to do in a small country town when it's raining outside. And someone had mentioned, hey, why don't we go bowling? Like, that's something you can do indoors. And my parents said, oh, we don't have a. We don't have a bowling center in orange. That sucks. I wish you guys did. We could have gone bowling today. And then that night, my parents had a combination conversation about, yeah, why. Why don't we look into that? Like, you know, we'd heard of it. Mum and dad had never bowled a ball in their life. But they had. They'd heard about it. They knew it was very popular in Sydney. And so the very next day, they started to research, you know, how do we build one where do we go? What should we do? They then asked my dad's parents, who had been working, you know, factory lines, laborers on the farms, you know, ask them for all their money. And they borrowed a million dollars from the bank to build this thing. And none of them had ever bowled a ball in their life. They had no idea what the game really was, and so they built it. I was born a couple of weeks after the opening of the bowling center, and it's still there today kicking goals. Dad and mum still work the bowling center today. And that's how I was introduced to the game, was just through my parents thinking it would be a great business idea.
- [17:12]
A
That's pretty insane. What year was that? It would have been 1983, I guess.
- [17:17]
B
1982.
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A
83.
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B
It troubles me that, you know, how old I am, but I know with working on the docu series, you've probably done a deep dive into my life. So you probably know a lot more about me than I probably know about me.
- [17:30]
A
Well, there's always the random knowledge that comes with just reading Wikipedia, doing other searches, listening to other interviews, just getting as much information.
- [17:40]
B
Wikipedia, you get your information for Wikipedia.
- [17:43]
A
Well, first off, you take Wikipedia and you look at it and then you try to verify sources and you verify things and you double check.
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B
Listen. That was a shout out to Henry Cavill. For anyone that has seen the meme of Henry Cavill getting asked a question about wikipedia. If you YouTube Henry Cavill Wikipedia, you'll
- [18:03]
A
get that reference, which obviously I failed at that one. I'll have to look it up. I'll have to look it up after. So your parents open this bowling center, you start walking at some point and you pick balls up. Well, you don't pick them up, you couldn't pick them up. And you just start pushing them down the lanes. Is that just where the love happened?
- [18:22]
B
Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, my grandparents and my parents worked every shift seven days a week for, you know, quite a few years after, after we opened. And, you know, life was obviously a lot different in the 80s. You know, we, you know, it was quite normal to bring your kids to work, you know, especially when you own the business. And, you know, as I was getting a little bit older, you know, I would be on mum's hip and getting carried around and then I'd start walking. But ultimately, when I was old enough to walk, you know, confidently on my own, one way that my parents found worked for them to keep me busy and out of their hair while they worked was to give me a ball Turn on Elaine and just let me go bowling all day. And then, you know, mom describes it as, you know, we'd get there, you know, open up in the morning, we give you a ball. You bowled until it was lunchtime, you then ate lunch, you went straight back to the lanes, you bowled some more, then you got tired, then you had a little afternoon nap and then you had dinner and then you went straight back to the lanes. And that was that way for years. And it was great for us because you know, you loved it, kept you out of our hair, you were never bothering us, you just wanted to bowl, bowl, bowl all day long. So I think based off of that, you know, it was a love at first sight for me. You know, just the, the idea of, and this is obviously before, you know, bumper bowling and lightweight bowling balls, which is maybe one of your next questions was going to be why do I bowl the way that I do? But the premise of my two handed bowling started because we didn't have the five or six pound bowling ball back in 1985. We only had 10 pound bowling balls. So you know, as a 18 month old, two year old child, the only way that I could roll a ball by myself was to somehow do it with two hands.
- [20:18]
A
Did your parents, you know, say don't put your hand in this machine or don't wander back to the machines behind the lanes. Like don't crush your fingers, like what was it?
- [20:30]
B
Yeah, I think, I think my parents were probably more in the sense of let me just check on him, see where he is. No, he's okay. If he gets hurt and he sticks his hand in the boar turn, which I have done many a time, I've got my fingers jammed in the bore returns back in the day because again those older machines and those older bore returns they didn't have the safety measures that the new ones have today where if you stick your hand in there, the ball isn't going to crush your hand anymore. It's got sensors and there's, there's, you know, little flaps that protect your hand back. Then you stick your hand in there and the ball comes out, it gets stuck with the best of them. So I remember distinctly having my hand stuck in there and dad having to pull the whole cover off in the machine and then lifting my hand out. And that was the advice was don't do that again. Like that's how I think it was for a lot of parents back in the 80s that you doing, you learn the hard way. You stick your hand in there, get stuck, it Hurts, don't do it again.
- [21:23]
A
You know, would have been a great origin story and you wouldn't have gotten shit for it. You lost your thumb. If you lost your thumb and you're like, well mate, I'm a, I don't have a thumb, so I don't bowl with a thumb. And this is the way. And then people wouldn't have given you shit.
- [21:39]
B
Yeah, I don't know, I think they still would have. I think somehow they would have expected me to wear a prosthetic thumb and say ball like the rest of us with this prosthetic thumb. You know, I'd be some kind of like Terminator style hand. This thumb, this robotic thumb, people would say, he's cheating, his thumb is robotic. It's, it's, it's an advantage.
- [22:00]
A
Well, I mean, I look at today, you, you walk into any bowling center and I would say more than 50% of the people bowling today that are starting, are starting as two handed bowlers. It's transcended because I think I heard Timmy Mack talking about this, that if, if someone was a new bowler that he would start them as a two hander because it's easier. Easier without the thumb to teach someone how to bowl right off the rip.
- [22:24]
B
Yeah, look, I don't really, I don't really look at it from that perspective whether it's an easier or harder way. I mean, I have come across many people who have tried two handed bowling and in their opinion it's really difficult. They couldn't bowl two handed better than they could traditionally. And then other players, you know, it's, it's the, the opposite. The way that I kind of view it is the, the name of the game is to knock over 10 pins. That's the name of the game. Stay behind the line, you know, play within the, the equipment rules. And if you do it in a way that you can do it well or you do it in a way in which brings you joy, then, then there's no right or wrong way. And so, you know, every time I hear people, I guess, try to discredit or demerit the validity of the style, you know, to me the question I ask is, okay, let's say this, as you say 50% of people that are doing this now, let's say you told them all that they cannot bowl this way even though they are within the rules of the game. But let's just say we ban the style and that 50% of the people walk away from the game having the game more quote, unquote, pure In a traditional size, is that better for the game? Is it. Is it more joyful now for. For the rest that are playing it, that the sport is shrinking? Or is the idea to be that, hey, everyone's kind of here doing it the way that they want to do it, and they're all within the rules. Maybe they do it differently to me. Maybe there are advantages that they have. Well, I'm going to find advantages in my game that kind of leveled the playing field to some degree. So I don't really understand that philosophy, you know, I really don't. And on top of that, if it's a traditional way or a traditionalist view that this is the way you're supposed to play the game, I can argue many points to suggest, well, you know, the modern traditional player is not playing the same way that a traditional player did in the generation before this one. And then I could argue that two generations ago was not playing the game the same way three generations was. And I'm talking about, you know, how many holes are in the ball. You know, there used to be only two, there used to be none. You used to just roll a stone at some. At some wood carvings down the other end. And the game evolves. So, you know, who is to say which generation does it properly or does it correctly when every generation prior to yours could argue you're doing it differently to mine? So I don't understand those arguments.
- [25:12]
A
I think it's a dead bullshit argument. And I know as a photographer, you hear people all the time like, that's not how it's traditionally done. I'm like, oh, did you roll around in a covered wagon in the 1800s with chemicals in the back? Like, is that what you want me to do today? So it all translates the same. There's always going to be someone to give you shit. But. But what you said is exactly what I had written down here, is the name of the game is knock down 10 pins. Don't cross the line, knock down the 10 pins, follow the other rules that, you know, matter. But that's really what matters. Whether it's a UFO style, two hands, one hand, pressing it from your chest, down the lane, whatever gets the most pins knocked down. Legally, it's all that matters.
- [25:53]
B
Yeah, I think. I think the hard part, Jared, is we talk about this in a really, like, logical. And removing any emotional connection, you know, to your own personal. Your own personal game. And so when something is different, and in my case, when I came out on tour, you know, if I was. If I was coming 70th every week. I really don't think the two handed style would have caught on the way that it did. I don't think anyone would have really cared. If anything, I think I would have been more of a, a joke, more of a gimmick, something to like poke fun at. But because I went on this, I mean, wild ride where, you know, winning 15 majors and 30 something titles and players of the years, I think because of that, that stretch of domination, the people I was beating and the people who, who converted to two handed or started bowling two handed, they started to have success. I think that jealousy of performance was the, oh, I can't do something that they're doing, therefore we should just ban it. And you see that in a lot of different, you know, a lot of different sports. You see a lot of different even in technologies and things like that. I'm sure there are people in the film world like you, where, you know, who they prefer to use, you know, a standard, you know, very traditional film type shot. And if someone has taken a beautiful digital photo, they will say, you know, it's not as good as mine, it's just not. And honestly, a real photographer shouldn't be using these fancy lenses and these fancy cameras and these fancy settings. Like you should be able to do it the way that I do it. That's the real. So, you know, I discredit that photo that you took that was beautiful, but it wasn't real, it was fake, you know, and I think that's the closest correlation that I can give to you, that, that, that, that the traditionalists and those that don't like the style seem to have. It's just simply they can't do it or they can't do what we're doing with the bowling ball. And so it hits them a little harder. And I understand that, I do.
- [28:00]
A
I mean, I think it's bullshit that people complain about how someone does something and becomes a success. And when you're a success, people just try to knock you down. But it's the nature of the beast. And it takes a certain person or certain type of people to be able to take all of that and turn it into what you turn around and do, which is your numbers, which we'll talk about in a little bit, certainly show that. So what does something like a Born to bowl show do for the sport?
- [28:29]
B
Yeah, I think that the best thing it does is it introduces the pba. Even though it's not straight competition, the series doesn't really focus on the ball to ball, game by game element of the PBA tour. It introduces the PBA tour to an audience that may not be familiar with it at all, that may not even know that it exists. And so, you know, this, this series has the opportunity to be. Well, if I find the characters in this show, these people to be engaging, captivating, you know, I kind of want to know more about these people. We can possibly build the growth of the game of the PBA Tour through this new audience who has invested in its players. And I think that's important. And one of the main reasons why when all the players and I sat together and we had dinner and we're talking about, are we going to do this? Is this something that we think we should do? Is this something that we think is good for the game? That was pretty much the synopsis of how we saw our vision for the show working was we're going to see a new audience. You know, Even if it's 100 people that watch it, that's a hundred people that didn't know anything about us or the PBA tour. Like, you know, as long as we're getting a new audience, I think this is a good thing. So the players, yeah, we really dived into that understanding this was a good thing. Even if along the way, you know, they see our vulnerabilities and we show more of who we are and, and the things that we have to overcome and deal with on a day to day basis, which can be daunting, you know, to have a camera in that part of your world, which, you know, and I can speak for only myself, but I typically find myself to be way more private. You know, I don't mind talking about bowling and my bowling, but you know how I am after a block, how I am in my hotel room, how I talk to my family. Like I don't share any of that. And so that was the, that was a really difficult step for me. And I would imagine the other players would have had to deal with that invasion of privacy as well. But I think that was one of the hardest parts for me was like, be yourself, but know that millions of people are going to see, you know, how disappointed you are after a bad game and you know, how you're talking to your family like that's a very private moment that you're accepting other people are going to see.
- [30:58]
A
Now I think it also goes beyond that because being mic'd up, I'm hearing as someone who's shooting and the directors and producers and anybody on the ground, we have our headphones in. So if you're Mic'd up. And I mentioned this to Kyle last week, that if he's mic'd up, you're mic'd up, and a third person's mic'd up. I'm hearing all three feeds at once. So we do that so that we know where we need to look and what's important and what's happening so we can be there to capture it. So, I mean, I'm hearing. I'm hearing you talk to yourself with.
- [31:30]
B
No.
- [31:31]
A
No one else is going to hear that. Which is. Which is crazy, because it's a different insight. And someone like, I talk a lot when I bowl internally, I get upset with myself. You know, you could throw the greatest ball, you could throw a strike and still be upset because you didn't throw it right. So I'm hearing you, as one of the best bowlers in all of the history of bowling, talking to yourself in a certain way. And it's just interesting to hear.
- [31:54]
B
Yeah. You know, it's funny because I. I mean, in terms of how much I vocalize that thought, I would probably say I would be one of the least amount of talking to themselves. Players. I think when I do it, it really comes out way more in frustration. Like, there'll be a moment where I'm like, all right, let's make a good shot. Didn't make a good shot. Okay, no problem. Let's make a good shot. Didn't make another good shot. I'm still quiet. And then I say, all right, we're gonna make another change. Let's make a good shot. Third time, still a bad shot. Then I go, fuck me. And then it all comes out in that third moment. And so, you know, the thing that's scary about you and the microphone and your position is when you are recording us, Which I'm very grateful. And I told this to the other guys, like, I'm very grateful in this fact where I don't say things I shouldn't be saying anyway. Like, my brain doesn't work like that. You know, I'm not thinking, oh, no one's watching. I'm gonna say something I really shouldn't. I don't have to worry about that. But I do catch a lot of the guys start a conversation, and then you kind of, like, look at them and go like, microphone, microphone. I go, oh, sorry. Yeah, let me change the subject real quick. And the thing that's funny about that and why that's so difficult is because you, the cameraman, you don't have to be right in front of my face. You can be listening to the conversation here. I'm saying something interesting, dramatic, crazy, funny, and you'll just look around for me, knowing I can hear him. So where is he? You could be 30, 40ft away from me, see me from a distance, zoom in, catch me saying something, but. But I don't know, the camera is actually watching me. So I might go, oh, Jared's not around, recording me right now. I can say what I want. Meanwhile, yeah, you're actually recording me from behind someone else's shoulder, over someone else's shoulder, 30ft away. And I think that's where I'm like, hey guys. You guys are going to be very aware that just because the camera's not in front of you does not mean they're not recording you saying what you're saying. So be careful.
- [34:07]
A
Well, the audio is rolling all the time, so when you're mic'd up the roll, it just rolls for hours. And then, you know, they try to try to find the clips that match up. But I guess at some point you might find something that is said that can be shown over. Like if we're filming from behind, you can't see your mouth. So in the editing room they might do something like that. But I haven't seen too many cases of where that's been done.
- [34:31]
B
But there's a 15 second, there's a 15 second conversation, I'm sure, with all five of us talking with each other and get us all canceled. I'm sure there's a 15 second bit somewhere in that 12 hours of recording that the editors just didn't catch or you know, scrolled through, didn't say it, you know, because like I said, sometimes it's really easy to forget that, that you've been recorded. So I know there's probably something someone said that you're like, oh, I'm glad they didn't use that. I'm sure of it.
- [35:02]
A
Well, there's also, and I'm not saying there is anything because I haven't heard anything, but there's a respect thing. There has always been a respect thing. Like when I'm working with people, you go back through the history of photography with Jim Marshall was a great photographer in the music world who never was told what he could put out or not put out because he knew the celebrities that were doing what they were doing in the 60s and 70s knew that he wasn't going to do something to make them look bad. And that's the key. You have to have the trust and respect of the people that you're shooting or photographing or documenting, because if you lose that, it's. It's over. It's. It's just over.
- [35:40]
B
Yeah, I think. I think it's important to touch on that because that's something that, you know, the directors, yourself, everyone talks about, like, you know, we're not here to make you look bad. And the way that I perceive that and how I hope it is actually interpreted in the editing room is, you know, and obviously I was being a little facetious and trying to make a joke about us getting canceled, but I am a firm believer that no one. No one is saying something that would be horrific. That's not what I'm saying. Where I think the idea of, you know, not trying to make you look bad is. There is a trust, I think, way more in the editing room than there is on what we're saying. Because I've watched enough reality tv, I know enough about this industry to know that you can take a conversation from a week ago if you've got the audio. You can take that conversation way out of context, throw it into new footage on a different day, make it seem like I'm saying something that I'm not. And then the perception is, oh, he's a villain. And you're like, no, no, I was talking about something else or someone else. And that's not what I was. Wasn't referencing that at all. And so I think the trust that we had from you, because you were the first guy to come in and start this project we trusted you to start with, and each person that has come along the way, I think we have this understanding of if we said it and it's in. It's in context. And the show. The show isn't trying to redesign and splice words together and moments together to make it more dramatic, even though that's not the. The reality of it. If you're not trying to do that, then. Then we're pretty much pretty confident. Everything that we've said, we most likely will be happy that we said it. Or, you know, maybe we might want to take a few things back. It's like, oh, maybe we're a little nastier than we should have been. Or, you know, maybe I wasn't as kind as I could have been. But ultimately, it's nothing an apology couldn't fix. Where, you know, I have seen shows where you hear and you read in magazines or on, you know, on Snapchat, someone said, not Snapchat. What's a TikTok? Where they're talking about, oh, that's not what I said. And I'm suing the company now because they've completely defamed who I am. I don't get that feeling from yourself, a 24 or HBO. And I think that's important because then it lets us be us. We don't have to feel like we're hiding because we're scared what the editing room is going to look like. And I think that's probably one of the reasons why they don't do that. They want us to feel safe and feel comfortable and to be ourselves.
- [38:29]
A
I mean, that's how it should be. I mean, it's all about respect. And for me, it's not about manufacturing moments. It's about allowing the moments to happen and capture them. And if you miss it, you miss it. Now, on occasion, we'll stop after the fact, be like, oh, you were talking about this. It's like an interview. You stand up and you say something because we know there was something there and we're trying to see if you'll say it. It, you know, bring it up and go into a little bit more detail. But one of the things this brings up, beyond the fear of saying something wrong, is there a fear going into this whole process, like a deeper fear about something that might happen because of the show?
- [39:10]
B
Yeah, I think, look, even though we, you know, we just talked about the trust, I think there. There are still. There are still concerns and worries about, you know, how vulnerable you are and the perception that people may have of you. You know, Anthony's episode just dropped the other night and, you know, there's been an interaction with. I can't tell you how many people have texted me and said, I thought Anthony was a really good friend. I thought you and Anthony were, like, tight. I thought you've helped Anthony. And the show itself doesn't connect the dots between my relationship privately with ej, Kyle, Anthony, and more recently, Cameron. So because that, that. And I think that has. That is done with intent, you know, they don't want the community of bowlers to think these guys are all really good friends. Like, you know, and that was just a heated moment. The story is better if, wow, Anthony hates Belmo. So the next time that Bellmo and Anthony come across each other in a tournament, there's going to be a little rivalry there. Where meanwhile, you know, after that, that outburst that that Graham did and then the outburst that Anthony said to me, and my reaction to it all, the very next day, you know, Anthony's giving me a hug, apologizing for Taking it out on me. He was frustrated in the night and, you know, he kind of felt bad for Graham and. And I'm like, Anthony, like, you know, it's totally fine. Like, I understand who you are and when you get like that, it is very difficult for you to be rational. And he agreed and we hugged. That was it. Now, that part of the story doesn't make the docu series, naturally, but that's, you know, that's the kind of relationship I think most of the guys have on tour. We have our heated moments, but ultimately the next day we're going to lunch with them, you know.
- [41:11]
A
Yeah, no, I mean, I see it out there all the time. I see what happens on. I mean, as an athlete, I understand what happens between the lines versus outside the lines. You could be the most heated rivalries going on between the lines and then off the lanes or any. Any athletic place, you're cordial because it's not in the heat of the moment in the competition. But that, that brings up in episode two, what happened, as it was portrayed in the show, that you're going head to head against Cam in one of those head to head matches at the US Open. And it comes to the point where you say, I'm going to go to the paddock to get another ball. And then there's some talking that's going on and there's obviously talk online. It's confusing. They think that it's some gamesmanship. What are you thinking in that moment when you're going to get. Or asking to go get another ball?
- [42:03]
B
Yeah. Well, first, I think the television show didn't do me any favors in suggesting that there's a rule you have to stay in the seti. That is not a rule rule that you do not have to stay in this. You can go to the bathroom mid match. No one's asking you to hold in the whole match if you need to go to the restroom. The. The etiquette is to inform your opponent. This is what I'm doing. Now, naturally, if you are attempting to do something to slow a match down dramatically, then the tournament director has every right to say, hey, you're bowling too slow. You need to speed up. But ultimately, single player in the history of the game, as far as I'm aware, if, if they think that they have a piece of equipment that can benefit their bowling, they go get it. No one is dumb enough to use the wrong bowling ball for a full game or for a shot. Even if they think that there's a better option for them to Have a chance to win the tournament. No one's doing that. So you usually just say, hey, Jared, I've got to go to the paddock to get a ball. I know that you still have a shot left in your match. Take your time, throw your shot. Happens every. Nearly every game. Someone's doing something like that around. Around the place, and the other player says, yeah, no problem. Thanks. I'll take my time. So I'm a little bit. I think I'm a little bit confused as to Kevin's and Cameron's reaction to that, because based on how the show describes it, by the rules, Cameron isn't supposed to finish his game. He's supposed to wait until I have finished my game first because of the order of bowling. So I thought I was doing the right thing. I thought I was doing the. The kind thing where I'm like, hey, instead of me going to get a bowling ball, which is fine, and making you wait and get cold and think about what's happening, I offered him the opportunity to finish his game so he was still in rhythm so he could. He could make his shot. Not feeling pressured or, you know, feeling that, you know, again, the gamesmanship. Not that I was thinking about gamesmanship, but if that's what he was thinking, I would have thought making him wait would have been the gamesmanship play rather than what I did. So I suppose I was a bit confused as to why those two boys. Yeah. Made that seem like it was gamesmanship. You know, again, if I had have made him wait, I totally get it. And I would have said no by the rules or the. By the etiquette of bonus. It's not even a rule. I don't think by the etiquette of the game, you're meant to wait till I'm finished because I'm supposed to finish first. Yeah, that would have been. That'd be a dick move if I made him wait. So I was like, I don't want to make you wait. And, you know, he needed to strike, I believe, to beat me that game. So making him wait would have been a huge disadvantage to him throwing the shot. So again, I let him go. So that. That whole exchange, if you interview every single player on tour about going to the paddock to get a ball and then telling their opponent to bowl, that is the exact way every player has ever done it and still does it today. So I was a bit confused about all of that. But, yeah, the editing made it seem like I was bending rules or breaking rules, which I wasn't. And I was actually doing the opposite, being polite. So it's frustrating because, you know, those two kids, you know, I've helped them and, and I do these, these really nice things. So I talk to them and mentor them a little bit and you come to, come to hear things like that. But you know, we're big boys and their microphones are on. They want their moment in the, in the, in the light, so you kind of roll with it. But I just thought it was weird that that was what they used. Like they could have, they could have, you know, I don't know that that wasn't the moment to be always playing gamesmanship. You know, maybe I take a rerack or two and I don't know, maybe you could claim that was the gamesmanship, but not, not for what I did. So. Bit confusing. I feel like I ranted there. I'm a bit heated about it because, yeah, I like those two kids and I'm like, yeah, that just didn't make sense to me.
- [46:18]
A
There's gamesmanship in sports. You ice the kicker when they come out to kick a game winning field goal or something, they call a timeout right before they go. I mean, that's part of the game, inside the game when it comes to that sport. And in bowling, you have re racks and I don't know, maybe walking to the bathroom at some point, that would be a dick move if something big is about to happen and you take that type of time out.
- [46:44]
B
But you know, actually AJ and I were talking about this yesterday in, in bowling, like a re rack. Now, again, understanding from the, the moment about Cameron and that moment with Cameron, if I had have made him wait and I took two or three extra minutes before getting my ball and coming back and icing in that way, I think you could make an argument, yeah, that was a long break. Whether it was necessary for you or not, you have definitely disadvantaged the other player by making them wait. Now a rerack takes 15 seconds. Like maybe less on television. Maybe less it is. Can I have a rerack, please? They press one button, the pins literally go and then it's up. So we're talking 10 to 15 seconds maximum. I don't know who's getting iced out with a 10 second break. You know, a 10 second extra long break. I think the, the, the funny thing is, as you say, there are gamesmanship. The way that I use reracks or. Yeah, like even the ball that I got with Cameron or going to the toilet, like all of these things are not, I don't think about my opponent, I'm not like, oh, this is going to mess them up. I look at it as your heart is pounding. You need to make a really good shot. Slow down, okay, take a rerack, slow your shit down. Or maybe it's, wow, you got really amped after that last shot and you're a little pumped up. You know what, in your history of being a little pumped up, you tend to throw the next shot a little firm because you're kind of amped. So take a time, take a time out, take a rewrite, slow your shit down, get back to your normal rhythm. That's for me. That's not for the other guy getting a ball from the ball paddock. Yeah, that's for my ball reaction, for my ball motion. I don't care about the other person or, you know, the position that they're in. I think the gamesmanship in bowling, I'm going to go out on a limb and I'm going to say nine times out of 10, whoever's doing whatever, it's for themselves, it's the, it's to help themselves, not to mess with the person they're bowling with. You know, the only time I've been aware of someone like trying something like that to me and it actually worked, which bothered me more than anything was I played a match against Stu Williams and he struck out, forcing me to get the first one in the 10th to beat him in a round robin match. And on his still shot his last shot, where it didn't really matter that much for him, he took a rerack. I was like, okay, cool. Then he took his second rerack straight after. It didn't need. It didn't actually have any relevance to his own performance. Then I got up, I don't remember what I did. I just didn't strike. And we shook hands at the end of the game and I laughed at him and said that double Rick, I've never, I've never thought about doing a double rerack before. And he goes, I didn't think it was. I didn't know if it was going to work or not. But I just figured I'd throw everything I have at you, which was two reracks also. And I said, well, I'm annoyed that it worked because I wanted to win that game so badly because obviously Stu and I have a great friendship and a little rivalry with our countries, him being from England and I've been from Australia. So that's the only time that I can recall someone actually trying to use gamesmanship in that way, every other thing that's ever happened in my life, I go to sleep at night, talk to my family, talk to my kids. I can put my hand on my heart and say, it has nothing to do with my opponent or it was completely accidental. I was unaware of something that I was doing. And I make the changes straight after that. If it is something that bothers the
- [50:36]
A
players, I'm going to shift gears here. We're going to do some history. Not a history test or a history lesson, but pre you, because this is a big discussion, who was the greatest bowler of all time. Pre you coming on board in like 2009.
- [50:54]
B
I mean, the two names I think that are talked about the most in that, that category is Earl Anthony and WALTER Ray Williams Jr. So now I never got the opportunity to meet Earl, to bowl with Earl, compete, see him, nothing. So my, my viewpoint is, is, well, I watched Walter and I have an opinion on how great Walter was at doing a lot of really amazing things on the lanes. So I tend to think of it like, well, from what I saw, Walter's my goat. You know, the way that he was able to win as much as he did doing things that he could do. And to some degree, you know, because we didn't have live streaming. When he was in his. In his prime, there were a lot of tournaments where he would hook the whole lane and still lead the tournament. But Walter was not known for doing that. Walter's, you know, the perception of Walter, his shtick was bowled really straight up 10, like, that's Walter's game, straight up the edge. And, you know, he was really good at doing that. But Walter, Walter was, was great at so many things and I got to witness that. So I put all those things together. And I like to think Walter's the best or the most winning player and the greatest of those that I have seen bowl. That's how I describe it. Because I wasn't around for Earl. So I don't know, maybe Earl was better, but I don't know. I didn't see it. So how do I know?
- [52:33]
A
What's interesting about WALTER Ray Williams Jr. There was a stat I read today where for an entire season he didn't miss a single pin leave. So it was like four. It was like 495 for 495 throughout a season, which is. Which is pretty crazy. But the stats here we've got WALTER Ray Williams Jr. Has 47 titles, 43 for Earl Anthony. Norm Duke has 40. Pete Webber had 37, 35 for Parker Bone III, 34 for Mark Roth, you have 32. But the picture I kind of want to paint here is that in 1975, there were 35 tournaments. In 1985, you had 35 tournaments. So these things are a lot of tournaments. In 2008, there were 21 in your rookie season, but by 2009, 2010, it was down to 19. And 2010, 2011, it was down to only 12 tournaments in the entire season. And today we're at 12 to 15 potential actual tournaments, which is kind of crazy to think about the numbers you have put up in your career. So post these guys in the timeframe that you've had to do it. I wrote down some stats here. You've bowled 274 PBA events as of 2025, you've cashed in 230 of them, which is 84% of the events. 40% of the time you've made a champions, and you've won in 11% of the PBA events that you've ever entered. So. And you've also won 15 majors. Have you been in 20? Have you lost five majors?
- [54:14]
B
No, I think I've lost more than five. I think I've probably. I don't know, I've definitely lost more than five. But yeah, I've won 15 of them.
- [54:22]
A
All right, well, from the, from the numbers I found, it was. It was 20, but even. And beyond that, it's like 70% winning percentage in majors is pretty nuts.
- [54:35]
B
Yeah, yeah. When you put them down on paper like that, these are not things that I research and that I'm aware of. The only thing that I am aware of is I know how difficult it has been to do what I have done. And I talk about that a lot. And not from a. Let me tell you how great I am. I kind of try to tell the younger generations and even my own, my own son, I try to warn them of some of the difficulties that you're going to face. And then if you can get through those, then you have a better chance at being successful. You know, one of those things obviously is like, you know, your headspace, you know, missing family and friends. Creating a network of support while you are away is. Is critical, I think for me, I wish I knew that. I wish someone had of came to me when I was a rookie and said, this is going to be really difficult. For these reasons, forget about the bowling, forget about how hard it is to just win. These are the other things. They're going to make it even harder for you. And then I could have, I Could have done that. I could have built those, those platforms off the lanes, which would have definitely helped. But in saying that, you know, when you, when you win and you win a lot, a lot of your troubles float away, right? Like you're successful, you're achieving your goals, you're achieving your dreams. Are there some issues, you know, that you, you should be fixing off to the side? Maybe, but I'm not really worried about them because I'm winning five titles in a year. I'm winning three majors in this season. Things are great things. I don't really need to rock the boat, but that's where I would definitely, you know, I would definitely look at it as. I've had an incredible career. Those stats that you mentioned, I weren't aware of, but I am very aware at how hard it has been. This has not been an easy thing for, for me to do. It's not like I'm telling you. Ah, yeah, I know only, only 12 count tournaments that year. But you know, the, the level of quality on tour is so weak nowadays. Winning five of those was pretty, it was pretty easy. I didn't even break a sweat. No, it's the complete opposite. It's. You're sweating when you're bowling, you're sweating when you're off the lanes, you're sweating all the time. It's, it's a really difficult thing. So that's probably where I'm most proud of is, is enduring the difficulties and still having that success.
- [57:09]
A
Yeah. The major list has you at the top at 15 with the closest people behind you. You have Earl Anthony and Pete Weber have 10, Mike Albee and Walter Ray have nine. Norm and EJ are at seven. So obviously EJ's still active. You got Don Carter with six and then Simo with five. And Simo's lost the most amount in majors. He's lost eight times, which includes the one that he, what that happened a few weeks ago. Which is kind of insane to think about the percentages there. What happens if it goes the other way and you end up with like, you know, 12, 13 majors. It's pretty insane just to get there that many times.
- [57:47]
B
Sure. But you can say that about anyone. That's, you know, I mean, I think Walter, Walter Ray has more second place finishes than he does first. So he has 47 titles, but he has more second place finishes. So imagine if he won all of those. You can say that about everything and anything. You know, I think that the takeaway is whether Anthony has won or lost that title match. What you cannot take away whether it's a win or a loss is the fact that he got there. And that says a lot. It says a lot about how talented he is. It tells you a lot that even though I would probably argue his mental game is not as strong as it could be, it just goes to show you how strong it still is. Because it is not easy to bowl a major championship and make the championship round as often as Anthony does without having something in between. Your ears clicking well, from time to time. And so. So I think that's more. Yeah, it's bad luck for him to have lost so many, but it's also a tribute and a testament to how great he is just to get there.
- [59:05]
A
But thinking you have to go through 60, 70, 80 people sometime, or 300 when it comes to the Masters. It's pretty incredible to get there time and time again because it's hard. It also shows you what Walter Ray was doing with what you said, losing more than he's won, which is kind of insane now with all of that being said throughout the history of bowling. I know you. I don't. Well, people talk about the greatest of all time, and they talk about it in every sport, and it's relative to the time that people were alive and watched and saw. I mean, what, What. Where do you put yourself in the. In the. The halls of history, in bowling? In a ranking?
- [59:47]
B
Yeah, it's a really good question. I think that's a question that I'll answer. I'll answer more honestly and better. And the reason why I say more honestly is because, you know, Walter, his career is over. Like, it's finished. Norm's is finished. Earl's is finished. Pete's is finished. And so you can. You can see the picture as it's full as at its entirety. I feel like, for me, I haven't finished. So, you know, my case on where I see myself in history, if I'm able to add to my successes, that clears that picture a little bit more. So I feel like that's a question I'm more comfortable answering honestly when I have also finished my career. And I can look at it as this whole piece and say, right, well, you know, you're not bowling any more shots in this tour anymore. Where do you think you stacked up in history? And that might be something that I'll be able to answer when it's over.
- [60:51]
A
What does that timeline look like? I mean, you're 43, right?
- [60:56]
B
Yeah.
- [60:58]
A
What do you see? How do you see yourself continuing on? Because I know the Travel is tough. You're four hours away from the airport. You got to get to the airport, you got to fly across the world. The wear and tear, you got your family. What's your brain? Where are you at?
- [61:15]
B
I have enjoyed, did bowl in on the pro tour for a very long time. I've enjoyed it. But the pro tour is toxic. The people that bowl on tour are toxic. It is not a healthy environment to be. And when you get older, when you're younger, you kind of pursue and push through that toxicity because you're like, I'm young, I don't care, it doesn't matter. My focus is I want to win that first title. You know, so you've got the blink and you're really not too, too aware of it all. But when you're 40 something and you see that toxicity and you hear it and you feel it, I'm like, I've got four children at home, I've got a beautiful wife and family and friends. I want to wake up in the morning and know that the people that I'm going to be around are genuine, that they are real, that they aren't ones that want to try to pull you down and rip you apart. They want to build you up and lift you. So the idea of doing this and what I'm doing now in such a toxic environment as I've gotten older, I just cannot see myself doing this for much more than my contracts for my sponsors right now. I feel like the next time I need to renew those contracts, I feel like that's an opportunity for me to sit down with the family, sit down with the sponsors and figure out the next path of my career. Purely just for your own mental health. I feel like I've had a really long career. I mean 15 years, I started later. That's probably the other issue that I wished I had have done a little sooner. I wished I had have come out on tour. I think I was 27 when I was a rookie. And if you look at that comparatively to Anthony, who was 16 years old, E.J. who I think was 19 or 18 years old when they were coming out on tour, you know, some of those younger years could have given me an opportunity to do more out here as well. But don't think I'm not grateful for the career that I've had. It's just now I'm 42, you know, this isn't high school, this isn't that nonsense that I should be worrying about. And yet, yeah, every day you wake up, it's not a Healthy place to be in. So I don't want to do that so much. I don't want to waste my, you know, my decade of my 40s, been in an environment that I feel like I would not normally be in if I could choose not to be. There aren't very many guys out here I would choose to be around if not for what I do for a living. So why. Why put yourself to that for another 10 or 15 years? And it was actually one of the things Norm Duke told me when I asked him when he retired, there was a selfishness on my behalf of, I'm not ready for you to retire, Norm. Like, I want to see you still bowl. And, you know, I miss watching you bowl. And when I asked him, you know, how do you feel since retiring? He said he should have done it 10 years sooner. He said he was miserable the last 10 years of his career, and maybe not again. It wasn't just from performance. You know, I do. I think back and I'm like, yeah, I mean, Norm was in his 50s. You know, we're all in our 30s. Like, who is he? Who is he relating to at that age? Who is he hanging out with? What is he. What is he doing in the. In the downtime? And so I can understand the loneliness that he must have felt, and I can understand that. And I think that's where I'm headed as well. So why put myself through that for another decade of the 50s? You know, I think that's kind of where I'm at. But those are decisions that aren't in concrete, and those are things that, when they are presented in front of me, you know, we. I talk to them, I talk to my family about it, and then I talk to my sponsors about it, and we try to figure out a win. Win for everyone.
- [65:15]
A
Now, with that being said, from a financial standpoint, I mean, I'm just going
- [65:19]
B
to ask or I don't need money. That's also. This is going to sound a little. I don't know. I don't know how it's going to sound, but when I was in my third year on tour, I was watching the bowlers that I idolized and the bowlers that had had incredible careers, and it was well known that most of them were broke and that they were not financially secure at the end of their bowling career. And in my head, I was thinking, man, these guys have won, you know, millions of dollars and sponsorships and, like, where did that money go and what happened? And I saw this time and time again, these Bowlers became bitter. They hated the PBA tour because now they're 50, they don't have any education, they're unemployable to the majority of the workforce. They didn't invest their money, they didn't look after themselves financially, and they. And now the ball isn't striking. So they don't make 200 grand a year on tour. They don't make 100 grand a year on tour throwing the ball anymore. Those dollars are gone. So I learned very early going that, no, that's not gonna be me. So very, very, very quickly, I built a platform for myself back home to be very financially responsible. And Kimberly and I, we have built that together. So she's a nurse and she contributes as well. And so together, money is not something me or my kids will really need to worry about. And I love hearing that there are bowlers out there today who are young, whom, whether it's conversations that I've had with them or other conversations that others have had, they are now doing the same thing. And that was something that the 80s, 90s and 2000s PBA Tour bowl and never did. They never. We don't have a player union. We don't have any kind of, you know, fund for the players to draw upon upon retiring. And so everyone has to look after themselves, you know, for the rest of their lives. And the younger guys now get it. They understand how important their future is and that no one's going to look out for them when they retire except themselves. So I love hearing that some of these guys are doing that now too, because. Because it's so important. But I'm very lucky that I saw that early and decided I'm going to start building it now, so. Because you never know. You never know. Like, when I was in my third year, I didn't know what was about to happen with my career. I had no idea. What I did know is any dollar that I make, I can't spend at all because I don't know if next year is going to be a bad year and if next year is going to be a bad year, what money do I have now? So, you know, even the small paychecks that I was winning, you know, I was very financially responsible.
- [68:21]
A
All right, well, thank you for being open and honest with just about everything here. I appreciate it. I know you've got to. What do you have a 6:30 block tonight at the Masters?
- [68:30]
B
Yeah, I got the night block tonight. Yeah, we'll see how it all goes. I saw the scores for this year's Masters. It's they're very, very high, which is unusual. The Masters typically has a much lower scoring pace, but the, the boys are striking. So I know that tonight's session, I think, I think the night session for me is usually the hardest session. I'm up early, just. My body clock typically wakes up early anyway with having four children, you know, in my family. So they typically wake me up early regularly when I'm home. So I'm up early and then I've got to wait around all day. So the anxiety build, the tiredness, the exhaustion, the, the energy levels drop. So I try my best to have like a, a rest in the afternoon, eat really well and then refreshen up right before I have to go to the bowl because it's a, it's a tough session for me, the night session.
- [69:24]
A
All right, well, how are you feeling so far?
- [69:26]
B
Yeah, I feel good. Yeah, I feel really good. I, I felt uncomfortable yesterday on the lanes. It just, I saw the picture on how to bowl and what I wanted to do. I saw it, it decently, but I just wasn't executing. But thankfully, the lanes are playing that little bit softer where, you know, some of the, the errant shots were not as bad as they could have been if the pattern was a little tougher. So I think I scored much better than I felt and I'm hoping to get out there tonight and feel better because if I feel really good and make a lot of, a lot of quality shots, there's a potential for, yeah, really a really good set that if I come in there and feeling uncomfortable, I'm going to rely on a lot of help from the lanes again. And you can't keep running that. You can't keep rolling the dice on that play. You can't just be like, nah, you don't have to feel good. Just the lanes are. They're easy enough that you'll be fine. No, no, no, no. Because there are guys who are sharp who are feeling it and they're also bowling on a really high scoring pattern. They'll. They'll wipe the floor with you. So I've got to get that feeling back and hopefully it starts to not.
- [70:31]
A
Well, thank you very much for coming on and I hope to see you in the finals at the Masters making a run for the next one, man.
- [70:39]
B
I appreciate you, Jared. Thanks for everything you've done for us bowlers and the friendships that we've created. Mate, I can't believe you were following me around. I still got that. The book that you made for me. We have that on the. It's actually. I mean, it's. I feel a bit funny. I tell Kimberly all the time. I'm like, I don't really like having that book out because it's a picture of me. It's just all pictures of me. But everybody that has ever seen it, they comment on how great it is. And I said, yeah, actually, this is who it is. And I pull up the Instagram, show them who they are, and they go, geez, he's got a lot of hair. It's usually the first comment they make. I go, yeah, he's got a lot of hair. I said, and big muscles. You should ask him. He loves showing off his big muscles. I shit raw. Those shirts, mate, I'm telling you, you must be working out more than ever because those shirts are tighter than they've ever been I've ever seen you. Those arms are bulging out. We need to get you a size up. Okay. We need to.
- [71:40]
A
I grew from this medium. So we're good.
- [71:43]
B
We're good.
- [71:45]
A
All right. Thank you for all of that, and I appreciate you coming on. And we'll see you somewhere down the road.
- [71:51]
B
Yeah, I appreciate you, mate. Thanks.
- [71:53]
A
How cool of an interview was that? I mean, I just love having a conversation with these guys. If you didn't hear last week's episode where I sat down with Kyle Troop, it's another great interview. I just like having these conversations. I think we dove deep enough, deep enough into just about everything we needed to dive deep into. You got Jason's take on leaving the lane. You got Jason's take on gamesmanship that has been done to him and other people we heard about, about his background, his origins of how his parents got into it and how he got started and talked a little bit about the history. I mean, the numbers are staggering. Oh, the thing that I texted him about after we finished the episode was I was like, man, you didn't start till 27 on the PBA tour. And he's right. Like, Norm Duke was like, 17 or 18 out there bowling. Anthony was 16 out there bowling. I mean, even seven or eight more years out there on the tour, he could have been dominating for that time. But on the flip side, I don't like playing revisionist history because there's no saying that he would have dominated at the time. I know that he threw the ball super hard all of those years. Maybe he wasn't ready. And that's the way that I like to look at things, is maybe you weren't ready and your time was your time. And when you were 27. That was the time. And I know he struggled in his first two competitions, if I recall correctly. But his winning percentage in majors being like 70%. Even if it's 60% or 65%. If I got the number slightly, I think it was five. I think he was either five or six losses in a major. Because I'm thinking back to what the PBA posted after Anthony lost his eighth time in a major and he's won five majors. 9, 10, 11, 12, 13. He's been in 13 finals there for majors and won five of them. It's still a very good percentage. But the other thing I was thinking with Belmo is like with revisionist history, you never know where you're going to end up. If you change the past, it's going to change something in the future. One of my favorite movies of all time is About Time. I just love that movie. It really goes into if you change something in the past, well, it's going to irrevocably change something in the future because the timelines have shifted anyway. That's going a little too far down the rabbit hole. I hope you enjoyed this section. Deep Dive look in the unofficial Born to Bowl podcast where I sit down interview people, if I can sit down and interview them, as well as give you some of my thoughts on what happens in each episode. Again, new episodes are out every Monday for the next couple of weeks. You can stream them on HBO Max and you can watch linearly, which is how I like to watch it because I just want to watch exactly at 9 o' clock on HBO linear in the US as well as Canada and hopefully somewhere else in the rest of the world at some other point. And if we ever do get a list of that, I will share that with you guys as well. So I'm not going to tell you that I'll be live next week. At a certain time it's going to be determined by who I get to sit down with because I don't think you just want to sit here and listen to me talk. Or maybe you do, but I like having the interviews. I'll try to get Simo on, I'll try to get Cam on, I'll try to get EJ on because then we could have all of our cast of characters talking about the show. So that's it guys. Thank you very much for listening. I'm Jared Poland, you thank for the unofficial Born to Bowl podcast and we will see you on the next one. See ya.