This always F%#Ks with my head…and I HATE it: RAWtalk 183

Summary

FroKnowsPhoto RAWtalk 183 – This Always F%#Ks with My Head…and I HATE It

Release Date: January 23, 2026
Host(s): Jared Polin (“FroKnowsPhoto”), Stephen

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Episode Overview

In this lively and irreverent episode, Jared and Stephen dive into a whirlwind of photography adventures, creative business strategies, and personal updates. Jared recounts his birthday return flight from LA after a jam-packed visit that included photographing a creator summit, documenting a musical performance, and deep-dive discussions about content creation vs. Hollywood gatekeeping. The duo unpacks insights from the Kenya vlog production, debates gear choices, and explores the ongoing struggle with YouTube titles, thumbnails, and content strategy. The show finishes with a look ahead: new employee onboarding, Paris travel plans, and Stephen’s upcoming paternity leave.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jared’s LA/Birthday Photography Adventure

• Sleep-Deprived Travels & Birthday Recap (00:00–08:55)
  • Jared describes getting "two and a half hours of sleep" and flying out of LAX at 6:30 am on his birthday (00:00). He discusses his preference for early flights to optimize post-travel productivity.
  • “I ended up with two and a half hours of sleep…I slept at Stefan’s studio. Didn’t make sense to go to a hotel for two hours.” (02:30, Jared)
• Studio Vibes (03:30–04:20)
  • Sleeping in Stefan Macchio’s professional music studio: "It’s like a womb. It’s peace, it’s calm, it’s warm, it’s quiet.” (04:20, Jared)
• Editing on the Go (05:04–05:33)
  • Opinions about editing photos on a laptop vs. a desktop for color accuracy and brightness. The challenge of getting editing right "on the road."
  • “The colors are different between the laptop…But it’s a good starting point.” (05:08, Jared)
  • Preference for editing with Apple XDR display at home, but makes do with travel constraints.

2. Kenya Vlog: Production & YouTube Strategy

• Fly-on-the-Wall Production (11:11–13:17)
  • Jared and Stephen break down the rationale behind their latest Kenya vlog, shot in POV with Insta360 cameras.
  • “It’s being a fly on the wall in Kenya with you…It feels like I’m in the vehicle shooting right next to you.” (11:26, Stephen)
• Editing Choices & Authenticity (12:21–13:37)
  • Discussion about not overproducing—retaining ambient audio and minimal voiceover for a more immersive viewer experience.
  • “I think it plays great…It seems like I’m a fly on the wall in the car next to you and you’re taking me along for the entire journey.” (13:07, Stephen)
• Naming, Titles, and Thumbnail Games on YouTube (13:55–17:36)
  • Debate over the difficult art of YouTube titling, split-testing, and optimizing thumbnails, and how these “mess with your head.”
  • “These are the things that we constantly beat ourselves up.” (15:48, Jared)
  • “So hard, man. I hate playing the game.” (17:36, Stephen)

3. LA Creator Summit: Insights, Inspiration & Self-Doubt

• Creator Community and Business Models (18:07–36:27)
  • Jared attends a creator/VC event at Lighthouse in Venice Beach, learning about successful creator business models (e.g., Epic Gardening’s $10–20M product business).
  • “They don’t want to just keep making content without anything to promote and sell, because then all you’re doing is focusing on that and not doing the thing that will make you the revenue.” (34:33, Jared)
  • The importance of product quality over slapping a brand name on generic items.
• Self-Doubt and Niche vs. Mass Appeal (36:02–36:27)
  • The common creative struggle: “You start questioning whether you’re doing stuff right or wrong because you hear their success stories.” (36:19, Jared)
  • Photography as a niche compared to scalable industries like gardening or tech.
• Value of Strategic Partnerships and Long-Term Sponsorships (37:07–41:36)
  • Weighing short-term vs. long-term partnerships and resisting unnecessary brand deals that dilute core content.
  • “My biggest thing is I just don’t want to come across as almost a sellout.” (38:07, Stephen)
  • “I don’t want one-offs…It’s brand awareness over a long period of time.” (41:36, Jared)

4. Social Media, Hollywood Gatekeepers & Creator Independence

• Supporting Indie Creators & Gatekeeping Frustrations (20:10–28:06)
  • Discussion with a puppet/horror comedy creator about the tension between viral social success and Hollywood’s risk-averse, gatekept system.
  • “You went from a world of no gatekeepers on YouTube to a gatekept world…” (20:29, Jared)
  • Jared advocates for direct-to-audience models (early access content, merch, official store) over chasing Hollywood’s validation.
  • “Just believe in yourself and get the fuck out of Hollywood. You do not need their money anymore.” (27:21, Jared)
• Successful Content Promotion (24:02–25:04)
  • Stephen brings up Kevin James’s strategic use of social media by embodying his character online to promote a movie.
  • “It shows you the power of social media to promote a big movie like that.” (24:57, Stephen)

5. Networking, Gear, and Shooting Events in LA

• DPReview Acquisition & Gear Patrol (42:15–43:56)
  • Jared speaks with the founder of Gear Patrol about buying DPReview and the mission of preserving valuable, technical forums for the community.
  • “It was an opportunity to save something that was beneficial to me… and it was available, and I made the purchase.” (42:54, Jared relaying founder’s words)
• Photographing the Creator Event & Stefan Macchio’s Performance (44:11–56:00)
  • Gear used at the creator event: 28-70mm f/2, 85mm VCM, 10mm for wide shots.
  • Lens correction discussion, importance of authentic vignetting for subject emphasis.
  • Challenges of performance/event photography in low light, creative manual focus/bokeh shots for artistic effect.
  • “I just started taking a couple pictures that way. Just completely out of focus. Varying points of focus…You never know if they want to put a background on an album or something.” (59:08, Jared)

6. Upcoming Projects: Paris, New Employees, Stephen’s Life Events

• Paris Trip & Leica/B&H Loaner Experience (63:33–67:31)
  • Jared outlines travel kit (Canon R1+28-70, 10-20, 85VCM) and struggles with Leica’s lack of support for loaners—B&H’s collaborative support appreciated.
  • “B&H didn’t have an M11 Monochrom, but the fact that they send me $20,000 of gear…that’s a good relationship we have.” (63:33, Jared)
• Onboarding a New Employee (70:39–71:26)
  • Integration into the team, brand familiarization, expectation of creative contribution.
  • “The whole point is… to give him some free rein to create.” (71:45, Jared)
• Stephen’s Paternity Leave (68:53–70:14)
  • Announcement of Stephen’s second child due next week; planning for workflow continuity and upcoming content.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• “I’m 45, going on about 12.” (00:27, Jared)
• “It’s peace, it’s calm, it’s warm, it’s quiet and it’s like a peaceful place… that’s why they create there.” (04:20, Jared)
• “We tried to capitalize on that [the A7.5 being hot] and I don’t know, I also think like the thumbnail, you in a safari vehicle…gives away that it’s a safari vlog.” (15:21, Stephen)
• “I hate playing the game too.” (17:36, Stephen)
• “You don’t need a manager, you don’t need these full bullshit people… they will come knocking as you continue to grow and then you’ll have more clout.” (27:21, Jared)
• “If I’m not creating, I’m not enjoying.” (32:48, Jared)
• “It’s not about just slapping your name on something… you have to make a better mousetrap.” (34:59, Jared)

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Notable Timestamps by Segment

• Sleep-deprived LA recap & flight logistics: 00:00–08:55
• Kenya vlog process & YouTube algorithm discussion: 11:11–17:36
• Creator summit, Epic Gardening, brand-building insights: 31:25–36:27
• Gatekeeper talk, puppet creator’s dilemma, indie-creator pep talk: 20:10–28:06
• Event photography, technical gear talk, event lighting: 44:11–56:00
• Leica/B&H story and Paris trip planning: 63:33–67:31
• Stephen’s paternity leave & team onboarding: 68:53–71:50

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Tone, Language, and Dynamics

The episode is informal, candid, and peppered with explicit humor and behind-the-scenes banter. Jared and Stephen trade jabs, indulge in offbeat tangents about gifts (“dick candles,” scented markers), and don’t hold back about frustrations with the creator economy, brand partners, or even major camera brands.

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For New Listeners

This episode is a strong showcase of RAWtalk’s signature mix: photography talk with a behind-the-scenes creator’s perspective, personal updates, and transparent (often self-deprecating) talk about the realities of surviving—and thriving—in today’s fast-evolving content landscape.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[A]

Hey, guess what? I got two and a half hours of sleep and I'm on an airplane. 6:30 out of LAX. Amazing.

[B]

Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday.

[A]

Take it off, Stephen. Let me see some boobs.

[B]

Happy birthday, Mr. President. Boobs, boss man.

[A]

That's right, Stephen, and don't you forget it. Let me see those boobs.

[B]

How old?

[A]

45. I'm 45. 50. 45, Steven. Ooh, 45, going on about 12. Which you will learn the more you talk to people as they get older, in their 80s and 90s, you realize, no, not revert back. They never left the. I like boobs and I like this. I mean I've had conversations with men,

[B]

I think for men. That's correct.

[A]

Well, I don't really talk to many old women, but some men, they start talking about things and you're like, oh shit. It never goes away. But most people are afraid to say it. They're like, shouldn't say that I like boobies or that I shouldn't talk about that. That's in my head. But you know what, as they get older they're like butt stuff. Lots of butt stuff. I had a 90 some year old guy talk about it for like he just kept bringing it up and that's why I could never run the interview is because all he kept talking about was butt stuff with his wife when they were younger.

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

Anyway, this is about my birthday. We could talk about me, you and your butt stuff. My butt stuff. That's what I want for birthday presents. I flew home from LA on my birthday. Yeah, that's what I did.

[B]

Not a red eye, right?

[A]

No, I didn't take the red eye. I could have probably gotten, I could have gotten to the red eye but I chose not to take a red eye. I'll take the 6:30 flight in the morning because red eye, it's only a four hour and change flight and so it's not like you get rest anyway. I felt it would be better not to rush myself after there was a concert that I was photographing Stefan Macchio. And even if we hung out late, I didn't want to be like I gotta go, I gotta go and be anxious about getting to the airport. That's. So I decided on 6:30 in the morning because it got me back at 2:30 which allowed me to still get to work. And also I had bowling at night.

[B]

Yeah, you had messaged me around 6 or 7am our time. And I'm like, man, what time is it in LA? Like 4am why are you Up. And I'm like, oh, it's because you're, you're flying back. You always take the first one out usually.

[A]

Yeah. It also, traffic wise, it's much easier to get there in the morning at 3. I mean, the guy flew in the morning. Like if you don't. From where I was in Hollywood or wherever the hell I was to get to the LAX, it was still 40 minute drive at 3. At 4 in the morning, wow. Imagine you add some traffic, you're at

[B]

two hours of traffic.

[A]

Yeah, two hours. And that's the thing. It's like I invited some people to come to the dinner with me. My buddy, when Stefan was playing, it was at a restaurant, fantastic restaurant called Verse C V E R S E. And they're like, it will take me two hours to get there. I was like, oh. I was like, I mean, it took me an hour and a half to get there from Venice beach at the event that I was photographing, which is the whole reason I was in la. But we'll get to that in just a minute. I ended up with two and a half hours of sleep. I went to bed at 12:40 and woke up at 3:40, got the Uber. Oh, and I slept at Stefan's studio. Stefan Macchio, the piano player. I slept. He has a really nice sofa there. I was just like, can I just crash here for the couple of hours? It didn't make sense for me to go to the airport or go to a hotel for two hours.

[B]

It looks so comfy. His studio, it's.

[A]

I always say it's like a womb. It's a different one.

[B]

Is it okay? Different one than what I saw. Gotcha.

[A]

It's a very nice studio. There's a lot of stuff that goes on there. Lots of big artists that record out of there and. No, when you go into a studio, what you have to understand is that these are soundproof. I mean, completely soundproof.

[B]

Well, I remember when we were at his old studio, wasn't there something with the air conditioning unit he was talking about and how it's like literally silent so you can't hear it during recording? And I thought he had like a custom H Vac system in there.

[A]

If I had to guess, the H Vac system probably blows somewhere and then it baffles through and falls in like, I don't know. But in here, it's just so not in here. But I'm not there now. But when you're in there dead silent and the door shuts, you're like peaceful calm.

[B]

Being inside A closet.

[A]

You would know more about that, Steven. It's about being. It feels more. It feels more like being in a womb. I keep saying it. It's peace, it's calm, it's warm, it's quiet and it's like a peaceful place. That's why they create there. So anyway, that's where I ended up crashing and took the early flight out. Got home at 2:30 because I don't want to get home super late. I edited images on the plane, I then wrote a photo news fix script on the plane and then I crashed out a little bit back and forth here and there to try and get a little bit of rest and literally came home, grabbed my car at my house, got lunch recorded, fix. And then it was time to go bowling. And that was the day.

[B]

How do you feel about editing photos on a laptop?

[A]

Well, it's a starting point for me. It's not perfect. The colors are different between the laptop. They're more saturated and vibrant on the laptop. And I don't know if that's. I don't know because I have the cine display here, the really good one from Apple$xdr. Yeah, yeah, I have that here and I know how the colors look here. So I don't know. It's a good starting point. But then there's certain things like the highlights are much brighter on the laptop.

[B]

It's always hard for me to get the right screen brightness when I'm editing on a laptop especially well. But it depends because if you're in a dark environment that's gonna affect your eyes. So it all depends where you're at editing.

[A]

You know what's funny? I got upgraded to first class on the way out and then on the way back I took this row 28. Row 28 on an A321 Neo. Neo stands for new engine option. It's not a big plane. It's like a 737 except for it's the Airbus equivalent. It's an extended one. But in 28 there is no seat in front of you at all. And it's just where the. On the other wall, basically on the bathroom is where the flight attendant will sit when they take off and land, but there's no seat. So anyway, the guy comes back and he's like, hey. He's like, if you want to move, we have this whole row here and this whole row here. I was like, I don't understand. He's like, it's not a full plane and you're sitting next to two People, that's a whole empty row. So if you want that, I was like, sure, I'll sit in the middle seat in the exit row myself. And I just worked there.

[B]

It wasn't an extremely full plane for once.

[A]

It wasn't a. An extremely full plane.

[B]

Not just full, but extremely full.

[A]

Extremely full. So we're very limited. No, but they were moving people around and I was number two on the upgrade list and there was one seat available. And then he told me, he's like, yeah, two people haven't shown up for first class yet. And then I got a notification on my phone that I'd been upgraded to first class.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

And then three seconds later it was downgraded back to where I was originally

[B]

sitting, back with the peasants.

[A]

I think the people ran and made it in time. I already had told the flight attendant before I got the notification. I'm like, I'm just gonna stay here. First class isn't as comfortable, honestly. It's a great experience if you're lay flat. But for a four and a half hour flight where I had the whole row and I could just spread out and put my legs out, first class is actually a little more cramped at that point. True, I know that's being bougie as fuck. But also I'm not fat so I don't take up the whole seat. It's too big for me. Sometimes it's the worst though, because if

[B]

you do have the whole row, you still can't comfortably lay the way the seats are and everything. It's still very uncomfortable. I wish they would have some sort of option where like all the seats would connect into one flat.

[A]

Well, they do. There are some overseas options for some airlines where they will allow you to purchase a row at a discount and then they place a flat pad across the seats and that's how. So it's not first class, but it's not as expensive. But it's more expensive than coach. But you can lay flat in the back of the plane.

[B]

That's nice.

[A]

Or on the seat. So anyway, let's get to the Kenya vlog real fast and then we'll get to why I was in la. Oh, oh, my birthday again. I got a cupcake sent to me which was good from Ramona Susans that was here. My friend Katie, I think sent a. So that was the package that got sent here the other day that I was like, why is UPS dropping something off? They weren't supposed to deliver it yet. It's a candle company and I'm pretty sure it's probably a dick candle. If I had to guess, it's gonna be a dick candle. I hope it's big and black, though. She probably got me a purple dick candle. Sounds great, though. I don't have it because my friend had to pick it up because we didn't want it to get stolen. Here. And I'm assuming it's a dick candle. That's a really good gift for me. I like dicks.

[B]

Lovely gift.

[A]

Yeah. Dicks. Speaking of gifts Steven got me. What'd you get me, Steven?

[B]

Absolutely nothing. Same thing you get me.

[A]

That's right. Well, I came into the studio today. Not that Dan would ever know this because he doesn't listen to our podcast, but there was a gift on my desk from Dan. Here. I don't have to get it. Cause no one can see it. But wait, let me get it. Hold on. So there's a happy birthday bag with glitter on it on my desk.

[B]

Ugh, glitter. I hate it.

[A]

Yeah, I was hoping it was gonna be a dick in a bag, but it wasn't. No, I'm kidding. I thought it was. I thought when I looked in, it was some sort of candy and I was never gonna eat it. I'm like, dan, you get me candy. But it Turns out It's Mr. Sketch Scented. Ooh, it is those pens I was talking about on the show on my Instagram the other day last week when I was talking about dry erase markers. Does anybody remember the scented ones? And now I have a scented ones. He got me 12 of them. Sorted markers. Warning, choking hazard. Oh, feed your imagination, it says. So this. I used to stick these up my nose.

[B]

Just your nose?

[A]

Yes, Steven, we're not talking about butt stuff right now. And it has a chiseled edge, so. Yeah. So dan got me Mr. Sketch Scented Markers. That's good. I like stuff like that. No note, no card. No card, man. Hey, your card survived, by the way, from your holiday card with your kid. I found a new place to put them for people that send them to

[B]

me in the trash.

[A]

No, I didn't put them in the trash. They're on the windowsill upstairs.

[B]

So that'll be there for the next 10 years? Basically.

[A]

Probably so, yeah. Because I'm, you know, all single and no one comes to my house and whatever. It's just me. So anyway, let's jump into that Kenya vlog, which we had to figure out how to title. So basically, if you haven't checked out the video, it's like Sony A7. 5. Everybody was wrong or everyone was Wrong. We went with that title to try and get people to entice to watch it because we know that when people watch or click on this video, they tend to watch it because it's a really enjoyable vlog. It's 20 some minutes where it's following me through Kenya in a first person perspective. So I have the Insta360 Go Ultra on my forehead for just about the whole time out there. I have a 360 camera and it's kind of just like, hey, watch my journey. I don't want to say too much, just enjoy.

[B]

It's being a fly on the wall in Kenya with you. And I think it's a really interesting video. Like following you around, it feels like I'm in the vehicle shooting right next to you. And that was kind of the whole intention behind making this video. Obviously it's a. It's a sponsored video at the end of the day for Insta360 showcasing all of their products, 360 cameras, the POV camera, all that stuff. But we also wanted to make content from Africa and recap your entire trip. And I think it really showcases that trip to perfectly. So the biggest thing is you came back. We explained this before with like 13 hours of footage. And we were trying to figure out like, what do we do with this? Like how do we make something out of it. Initially I had Dan do like an entire assemble edit of like just basically make like a montage, a vlog for the most part. And then we'll do voiceover throughout to kind of direct the story, give it a beginning, middle, end type deal. A complete video. And we kind of realized midway through that it didn't really need anything else.

[A]

It felt complete.

[B]

It felt complete just with the ambient Audio and the Insta360 Go Ultra, the one that was on your head. All the audio for the most part is coming from that and it sounds pretty damn good. I was worried about like a lot of wind noise and stuff like that. You sound fine throughout the entire vlog. And I think there was just enough to really only need an intro. Just a quick like, hey, follow me along for this entire journey. One liner. I'm really happy with how the video turned out and I was a little nervous at first when we were chopping away at it. But it came out, came out great. And Dan did a great job editing that all him for the most part.

[A]

Yeah. It's an enjoyable watch. I mean I showed it to some people that when I was staying with Tyler Shields and he's like he just sat there for 20 minutes and watched the whole damn thing.

[B]

Well, I don't think you liked it at first, right?

[A]

Well, I don't like very many things at first.

[B]

And I was like, I think it plays great. Like, for once I'm like, I don't have many changes for Dan. Like, it seems like it's like I'm a fly on the wall in the car next to you and you're taking me along for the entire journey.

[A]

Yeah, it's tough for me because, you know, I'm close to it and it's something that I experienced and certain things aren't in order and they're not when they. And you know me with chronological stuff, very literal. But I relied on you to just be like, no, I actually liked it. So just do this. I enjoy the Randy Johnson stuff.

[B]

Yeah. And that was the other thing. It's like, do we have to introduce Randy? And I think that the way Dan did it, throwing him the orange in the car and then hitting the bird and showing that footage and then obviously saying his name, Randy, you kind of get, oh, it's Randy Johnson. The Randy Johnson. You don't need to introduce someone like that.

[A]

Well, it was just so funny when we pulled up and he was in the other car that was, you know, there at the same time. And he's like, I'm your biggest fan. And he's like, you guys have anything to eat?

[B]

He's a big guy.

[A]

Yeah, he's 6 10. Yeah.

[B]

He got that whole vehicle to himself pretty much, right?

[A]

Yeah, he and his spotter and then the driver, he. He was doing that independently.

[B]

And I thought the part of you throwing the rock, trying to hit the pole was really funny. Yeah, because you hit it basically first try.

[A]

And I hit the pole, you hear the ding. And I was like, I did it. But it bounced.

[B]

Was he not feeling well?

[A]

No, Randy. Randy got hit with the A bug. Like a 24 hour bug. And it was really tough for him. Like he got hit like first day because he was staying somewhere else. And yeah, we saw him and he just wasn't looking. He was just beat. I saw him at the airport and he was, you know when he was like, fuck you. Which was great. He was. No, he was feeling. He wasn't feeling great. And then obviously right there, he still wasn't feeling great, which can happen to anybody when you're out there. Could just eat something and you never know how you're going to react.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

So that vlog is out there. You guys can check it out. I might be changing the name to something else, like Come along with me or Join me on Safari. I don't know.

[B]

At this point, the video, I would say is pretty much dead. So we can change it to whatever. Unfortunately, the title didn't work well.

[A]

I mean, it still does 35,000 views, but we want 60 to 100 on stuff.

[B]

And unfortunately, if we called it like anything safari, that never ever does well for us. But at this point, again, just call it whatever. I know we toyed around with like the camera doesn't matter type of idea, but the A75 is such a hot camera right now. We tried to capitalize on that and I don't know, I also think like the thumbnail you in a safari vehicle. To me, like, it almost looks like it could be like an Insta360 video because you have that on your forehead or instantly it gives away that it's a safari vlog video.

[A]

I might just change it and then I can still add the A7.5. It's just like, Join me on safari or Join me on safari. Follow along my safari in Kenya with the A7.5. I don't know. It's just like, would that have done well or not done well? And these are the things that we constantly beat ourselves up.

[B]

And then you always get the people that are like, if you just called it what it was, I would have watched it. It's like, but you might have watched it, but then the other person might

[A]

not have or you might not even noticed it because. Because YouTube didn't send it to you.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Yeah. Right. And there's all. There's all of that.

[B]

And we did try split testing titles this time around. And they all kind of evenly split across the board for the most part.

[A]

Yeah, but that's because they weren't different enough.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If you're going to split test, they have to be complete polar opposites to then really see everything's got to be a complete.

[B]

And you're taking a big risk there, you know, because then you're sending it out to half the audience with a shitty title versus a decent title that you know will work pretty well.

[A]

Yeah, but what happens is the system, if one is doing exorbitantly better, will automatically end the test because it's like, okay, 750 people clicked on this and this one was only 250. It knows.

[B]

Yeah, but that still will take roughly an hour or two to get to that point. And I still think that first hour is like critical when it comes to.

[A]

Yeah, I don't think it is as much anymore, but it's because I think that's their testing phase, where it's just like YouTube is doing what they're doing. And at this. We've seen it. We've seen it with our last two photo news fixes where we're like, I don't know, they're not starting off well. And then all of a sudden, like two hours in, it starts to gain momentum.

[B]

Yeah, it's just. But it's much better if it gains momentum right off the bat, of course.

[A]

But. But we've also seen it the other way, where we've gotten these huge jolts to 20,000 within, like hours. And then they just fucking stopped. And you're like, what the fuck?

[B]

So hard, man. I hate playing the game.

[A]

I hate playing the game too. Like, I really do. And part of what I was listening to when I was in LA at this other event, which I'll talk about in a minute, is the content strategies that other people have.

[B]

Clickbait, clickbait, clickbait. Hit them off with the first five seconds with something crazy like Mr.

[A]

Beast. Yeah. Not overdoing content, because if you overdo that and you're just trying to sell stuff, then you're just making too much content. But you need product to sell and how important it is to have product, because if you're generating enough, plenty of revenue, you don't need to overdo content and focus too heavily there. So there was that. But let me tell you where I was in la, I stayed at Tyler Shields house. He lives in the hills somewhere. There's lots of hills up there. And he's right down the street, like a half a mile from this, really from a park which then has an opening. And you see the sign that says 2.3 miles to the top of the the Hollywood sign or 1.9 miles to the front of the Hollywood sign. And I was like. And I went up in the evening to take a look, and I was like, I'm gonna come back and do this tomorrow. And a friend of mine, she came with me. We went out at 9:30 and we trekked and hiked up to the top of the Hollywood sign. Now, it's not like you go to the rocky stairs at the Philadelphia Museum of Art and you run up 137 stairs and you're there. Right. That's just done. Right. That's an easy thing to get to the top of the Hollywood sign. It's over two miles and a lot of it is up, uphill. Yeah. So I checked my watch and like at some points I was at 160 beats a minute on my heart, which meant we were getting a real cardio workout. Like a stair mill.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And it was good. It was a. It was a. It wasn't super. It was gorgeous out. It's LA, you know.

[B]

Meanwhile, by the way, it was about 9 degrees here in Philly.

[A]

Snow 8 or 9 degrees in Philly. And I'm at 71 degrees and just going up a hill. And I got to the top, took some pictures with the wide Lux and then we took an Uber back down because they didn't have any bathrooms at the top. And she needed to go to the bathroom and stuff to pee. And I don't know how in a park you don't have bathrooms anywhere, but there was that. So I just made it easy, took the Uber back down and that was that. But it was a very interesting hike. But when I got back to the house, Tyler has people that come to the house all the time. They're always editing. It's like an open place for people to be creative and have a place to work and hang out and stuff. And Tyler was somewhere else at an event and there was this. He had one of his friends was there editing something.

[B]

Video or photo?

[A]

Video. He was editing a trailer or a sizzle. He was creating something because, and I'm not going to go into names here, because we had some really deep discussions that I want to talk about right now. But he was working on something that cost him like 15 grand to produce himself. Because one of the studios wanted a proof of concept to see what it would be to make the. The decision on whether they should invest and spend money and green light a project. And we had a whole discussion. The way that this guy got to Hollywood is through his YouTube shorts and Instagrams and making content. Basically, he made a puppet. I'll just give you the core of it. It's a horror comedy, right? It's a horror comedy puppet. Like weird shit happens to the puppet and it's funny, but it's meant to be a spoof on comedy. And he got like something went viral with one of the things that he did. And then of course, LA comes knocking. Get a manager, get an agent, start taking calls, start taking meetings where you try to pitch them this idea that they should give you a certain amount of money to make the feature length film. But then they have him suggesting that he ignores the social thing where people have been following and they're engaging with the content and they Want to buy the puppet. And they're dressing up like the puppet for Halloween. The kids are dressing up because they find it funny. And then. And it's like he's doing really well on social, and that's how he made a little bit of money to keep making some of the stuff. And I just sat there and I said, I don't know what you're doing in Hollywood. I don't understand. Like, you went from a world of no gatekeepers on YouTube to a gatekept world where a small few sit there and tell you what your worth is or that you're worthless because they don't want it because, well, this movie just did bad. Therefore, we don't want to take a chance on this. Or one of it was. And I don't want to go too detailed, was they only invest more money than what he was looking for to produce the whole feature film on a very lean budget. They're like, no, we only spend X amount of millions of dollars and you need under that. We don't do that. And that's always thrown me off. It just makes no sense. It's like, well, if you think this is good, why don't you take a flyer on it? Because if you give a couple hundred thousand dollars and the guy says that he can do it for that, and you see that he, he's had success with it on Socials and the way that he's built a nice little brand, wouldn't you want to see a success there? Wouldn't you rather invest a couple hundred grand instead of ten plus million dollars and have something flop? Yeah, and it's just like. So I just, I'm like, look, I don't know. I'm just gonna give out. I'm just gonna spit what's in my brain to you right now. I'm not saying it's right and I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm just saying here's my thoughts based on someone who's been at it for 16 years on YouTube, who has a show coming out, which I don't. Still can't even say because they haven't announced it, though I know the date that it's being released. They haven't promoted it yet.

[B]

Well, and keep in mind, you're also limited on what you can say about that show right now because it's not out yet.

[A]

Oh, I told him everything. But no, I know.

[B]

I'm just saying publicly, it's the same thing. Like they're restricting you from promoting it on your socials as well?

[A]

Well, I don't even know if they're restricting me. It's just that I'm waiting for the press release so I can say it all. Because, you know, I've been working on the bowling show for, you know, four plus years and it's done. I have three or four. Three of the five episodes that are, like done cuts that I'm watching with final voiceovers and color and edits locked in. Thank God the color editing is done because, man, that looks so much better

[B]

when it's a big difference, man.

[A]

Holy Jesus. I will tell you, those high end Sony cinema cameras that were done on set with proper lighting that looked like shit before they were graded. Holy fuck. Do they look incredible when they're graded? Oh, yeah. Holy Jesus, what a difference.

[B]

Have you been following the Kevin James stuff on Social?

[A]

No.

[B]

So it's almost the opposite of what you're talking about, where he has a movie coming up called Solo Mio or Mayo, and he plays a character named James Taylor. Well, he started a fake James Taylor Instagram account. He's not calling himself Kevin James. He's playing the character on social media, on Instagram specifically. And he's gaining a following slowly promoting this movie that comes out in February. It's like the opposite of what you're saying. He's promoting it through Social until the movie's being released and he's playing that character. I think the movie, I think it has to do about, like, him getting engaged and then married in Italy or something. And then they break it off like the day of or something, and he gets left in Italy for like two weeks by himself. Anyway, on his socials, he just posted an engagement video of him proposing to his fake wife in this movie. It's leading up to the movie. It's really interesting to follow along. Yeah, it shows you the power of social media to promote a big movie like that.

[A]

But also it also shows the power for this kid to create his own thing.

[B]

That's what I'm saying.

[A]

And have it work.

[B]

Yep, exactly.

[A]

But then he's in the tough. He's in the mode where he's like, yeah, it's working. But now they all want me to do this other stuff and they don't want me to focus on that because they're saying if you focus on that, then these people aren't gonna respect you enough to do it. And I'm like, they're. They're the fucking gatekeepers. You don't need them. And they're gonna come knocking as you Keep growing and getting bigger. I'm like, so what I would do, this is me. I would create that short film that you want to create and do six minute vignettes. And if there's 10 of them, that's 60 minutes, that's an hour. But you put them out each week. But you also say, look, guys, if you want the whole thing right now, I do have an insiders club that gets early access to check out the whole thing. It's a way that you can support me continuing to make this project. I know you love. And I don't want to go to Hollywood because they just want to stifle my creativity. And I want to share this with you so you can watch it for free. But you could also support me if you want to do this. And I'm like, people will. And then you do T shirts and you market it. He's like, yeah, people are doing Etsy stuff and they don't get it right. I'm like, these are missed opportunities. You should have the official store. You should have the puppet that you sell for 50 bucks. It doesn't matter, people. 100 bucks doesn't matter. Have the inexpensive one, have the super expensive one. People will buy it. People will support you because they see that you're independent. And no, it may not have the massive budgets that the industry wants to throw at you. If you can just do this stuff and grow on your own, which you've already proven that you could do, why would you stop doing the thing? That is what got you the calls. You don't need a manager. You don't need these full bullshit people. He's like, yeah, he's like. It's just like, they go and they do these things for you and. And then they're like, yeah, they gotta know.

[B]

I've told you time and time again how I've supported solo creators over the years, that even if I didn't need to buy a guide on lawn care or some shit.

[A]

OnlyFans, Stephen, you've been supporting OnlyFans creators for a long time.

[B]

Yes. Lots of Only fans. Yeah, yeah. No mommymilkers.com but I've purchased plenty of guides that I don't need. But it's just to support the artist, the solo creator. I'm sure a lot of people have done that with us too. Buying presets or something like that for 30 bucks plug and not needing them or using them or.

[A]

Did you say you purchase guys?

[B]

Yes, yes, only.

[A]

Dudes, you did start this off with a closet discussion, and we haven't talked about Subarus this week or in the last five months. So anyway, I just went off on that whole thing of like, you've already done the thing. Why are you going to allow these people to control the. Control you and tell you what you can and can't do when you've already done it? Just believe in yourself there and get the fuck out of Hollywood. You do not need their money anymore. They are gatekeepers and they will come knocking as you continue to grow and then you will have more clout. But you don't need to pay a manager, you don't need to pay an agent, you don't need all of these freaking people to be controlling what you're doing. When you know what you're doing, just go and do it.

[B]

What's his day job currently?

[A]

This is his thing.

[B]

He's already doing it basically.

[A]

Well, he will do commercials and he'll do DPing and he'll do like, you know, the small gigs that come along to, to make some money. But that's a, that's a, that's a, a struggle. Yeah. And you know me, I'm all about you, you know, invest in yourself as much as you can. And in this situation, when you already have something successful that people are already resonating with or it's resonating with them, go for it. Things happen in la, when you go to la, things are just weird. Like you meet so many different people.

[B]

It's all happening.

[A]

It's all happening. I'm only the lead singer, so the whole reason I went to LA is that there's a venture fund that's investing in creators and they reached out to me a few months ago about something and of course I thought it was bullshit at first because, you know, I get so many bullshit emails where they're like, we could do this. And so I simply responded back. I said, is this a form letter or just a well written introduction? Because it was written really well. And she's like, I like how you're thinking, no, this was real.

[B]

Thanks, ChatGPT.

[A]

She's like, no, this was real. I like where your mind is. She's like, but we should, let's have a conversation. And then I finally dug into what they do and I saw people that they've invested in and their other creator channels and why it's different than what's out there currently and their reasons behind it and what they're involved in. And it might not be the right fit for froknowsphoto, because that might not be an investable brand, but other things that we do potentially could be. And so that's something that I wanted to entertain with them. And it's awesome to speak to these successful VCs and they have connections with everybody. If you have a question, they are more than willing to help. And I love the fact that she just put it to me blunt. When I had an idea and I started, I presented and she instantly said, nope.

[B]

Oh, you finally met your match.

[A]

She's not gonna beat around the bush. I was like, that was amazing. I'm like, most people just beat. She's like, we don't have time to beat around the bush. She's like, I like certain ideas, but that can't be the reason for X. And so I'm gonna send you back to think about it more and to come up with some other things. And what it does is it makes you problem solve and opens your mind to something different. Because after the very first phone call we had, I was like, yeah, I don't see it. I don't see it. And then two hours later I was like, why not? Like I said something and she's like, yeah, why not go after that? And I was like, well. And then after the call I was like, oh, that makes sense. So while I was in LA is they were having an event for creators, a creator summit. It was the second one that they did. They have this. It's called Lighthouse. I believe it's a creative space in Venice beach, which. It's behind Gates and has security. I don't understand. Maybe super duper creators there. I mean, I know Colin and Samir work out of there. I know a bunch of other creators. It's like, think of wework, but not garbage. It was an incredible work environment that I could never see working in because it was super distracting. How many people were there? I just. It's not my type of. It's a really cool environment for talking to people.

[B]

Yeah, I was just going to say I feel like I would get distracted from all the conversations and I would just never actually be like, head down, actually working on something.

[A]

That's it. It was a. It's such a beautiful campus. I sent you some photos. There's regular desks, there's cubicles.

[B]

Oh, that was the place.

[A]

Yeah, that was the place. Then I showed you the picture. They had like, they have podcasting areas and then they had a retro 90s room. I'm like, well, that looks like my room because it had Goldeneye playing on the flat screen CRT TV. It was like, that's my fucking bedroom from the 90s. But they were having this summit where they were having different people speak. And I said, yeah, I'll go. I'd like to go. And mind you, I'm in Philly. This is la. So I fly out or I'm gonna fly out. And I was like, I want to shoot this. Or I told them I'm going to shoot this. And so I didn't ask for permission. I just told them I want to attend and I want to shoot. And they replied back. She's like, that's great, but we would really like for you to enjoy it and sit in the seats and listen and learn. And I'm like, what you have to understand is I don't pay attention. The way that I pay attention is I have a camera in my hands because then I'm focused on the moment.

[B]

Focused, Pun intended.

[A]

Yes. I'm focused at that point. Whereas if I'm just sitting in the crowd, I'm just like, I don't have a camera in my hands. I might be on my phone. I'm not paying attention. I want to leave. I want to be gone. So that is true.

[B]

That's very true. I know you well and yeah, you are like that.

[A]

If I'm not creating, I'm not enjoying.

[B]

The thing is, when you have your phone in your hands, you're not paying attention. It's in one ear, out the other. I've had many conversations with you that I had to repeat because you just straight up were not listening.

[A]

But yeah, so when I'm focused with the camera. Spotify. No, sorry, Shopify was one of the. One of the main, like, sponsors. They gave out some really nice merch. I have a. I have a really nice sweater for you.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

That they gave out, which is like a great swag. Like, awesome.

[B]

They must spend so much money on that stuff because it's always really high end apparel.

[A]

They did high end apparel. It's like la shit. Yeah. Like really nice. But what. What I loved about it is that this guy Billy, who's a part of the company's called Slow Ventures, is a part of them. And he introed the whole thing. He's like, so there's no raising your hands. This is open. If you have a question while we're doing, while someone's up here talking, ask it. He's like, this isn't about waiting till the end. This is a discussion. This is an open forum to just talk. And, you know, I love when creators share. You know, I share all the information with people in person, like other creators, we share. We talk about numbers, we talk about revenue, we talk about what we do, we talk about what's working, we talk about what's not. And so listening. The first person that was up there was this guy from Epic Gardening, one of the largest gardening channels out there. And he started the gardening channel. He had a vlog first. Sorry, he had a blog first. And then he, during the pandemic, started gardening and then started a YouTube channel and then started selling product. But now they're making multi, multi millions, 10 to 20 million dollars a year plus selling gardening products.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And so that was the whole thing where it's like, they don't want to just continue to make just content without anything to promote and sell, because then all you're doing is focusing on that and you're not doing the thing that will make you the revenue to make everything much easier. But they have like 50 staff. And he said 30 of them are in the warehouse. 30 are warehouse people that do all the shipping. But it's different than the photo where it's like, we can't make cameras and sell those. But they can brand, but.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

The whole thing is you don't just make products because you have a following and expect the following to buy everything, especially if it's garbage. It's got to be good these days. And so it's not about just slapping your name on something. They have product development. They make a better mousetrap for certain things, and it just continues to sell.

[B]

Sounds like Linus Tech tips.

[A]

Well, yeah, they get inventory. And then he's like, one of the best things they did when they took some venture. When they took some venture funding was hire a president to do the operations. And he said in one move, the guy instantly paid his. Basically made back his whole salary because they had a bad deal. He called it up, called the company up and said, we're not going to. We're backing out of this deal. You could sue us if you want, but you're not doing us. Right. We need a better price. They did a better price. And the savings right there was the guy's entire salary for the year already.

[B]

So they're doing all of their own shipping in house.

[A]

They built a facility.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

But he realized, he's like, why would I do sponsored posts for companies and promote their stuff when I could just make videos and promote our own stuff?

[B]

Sounds familiar.

[A]

It is. And it's on a different scale with them. And so it was interesting listening. So there's two Things that happened to me at these events. One, one, you get very interested and you're like, that's a great idea. That's cool. Two, you start questioning whether you're doing stuff right or wrong.

[B]

I was waiting for that.

[A]

Because you start hearing people, you start hearing their success stories and you're like, well, what am I not doing right? And that hits my head real fast.

[B]

See, the other thing, though, is you have to keep in mind photography is a very niche category. When you're doing something like gardening, I feel like you can reach so many more people. Or again, like, I always bring up Linus tech tips, like tech in general, covering all things tech. It's just, you just reach so much more. And I feel like we're way more limited with our category, with our industry.

[A]

Yeah. Well, the biggest takeaway was, you know, for us, we always talk about this is focusing on product but not focusing heavily. Oh, the big takeaway. Come back to the product in a second. Was listening to him talk about how sometimes they went too far into a brand deal and they don't need it.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

In there, it waters down what you're doing by doing a branded video that is unnecessary because you don't really need to do it. And we face this every day. I mean, there's an offer right now that is a very nice offer to sponsor the podcast. I don't even know if you know this.

[B]

I don't know this. This is news to me.

[A]

Yeah. But it might be a company I might want to go after one day in creating a product that challenges them. So I don't want to create. I don't want to promote them right now. And then in a year have venture funding to create this thing that challenges what they're doing. Because then I just send everybody there. Now I'm telling them, I build a better mousetrap and it's good. It's an okay amount of money. Right. It's not game change, it's not life changing. It's nice. It helps the bottom line, but it's just like, I don't think I should do that right now. And same thing with sponsored videos that come along. We have some, but then it's like it just takes us away from our core competence of what we do.

[B]

My biggest thing is I just don't want to come across as almost a sellout. Like, we always try and do sponsored content about products that we would actually use. And that's why we always talk about insta360. Like, they're just such a perfect Sponsor, because we really do use all of their products in the real world all the time throughout most of our videos.

[A]

But there also comes a time when sponsors, I won't say overreach, but expect to be able to dictate what you're

[B]

going to create 100%.

[A]

And I'm not that guy. And you've seen it recently in the beginning of this year where I'm like, no, you can tell us what you may want, but that's not going to happen. And I know that you might be paying us, but you're either going to listen to what I suggest, which we have a company that does that, by the way. And I'll just. I'll just say this. Pro Grade has never given us money over the years. The only money that Pro Grade has ever given me was at the B and H Build event to show up to their booth. They had some budget to do that and it brought in like 5, 600 people into the booth. That was a promotion that we did together. But everything that we've done since Pro Grade came into existence has been. They just have given me product and now they're looking to do something. They're looking to spend a little bit on something. And I didn't want to do what they were suggesting. And what they were suggesting is promoting a new product to give out a code and whatever to promote the new product. And I'm like, but they didn't want to do Photo News. I'm like, but see, this is the thing that fits perfect into Photo News. Oh, yeah. That promoting a product and making people aware of something new is a topical thing. Where Prograde shines in our videos is that if you've noticed over the last four years or however many years it's been around that a majority of our videos, when we open up a camera and we talk about the memory card slots, we pop out cards that are

[B]

Pro Grade cards because again, it's products that we actually use. We strictly use Prograde Digital as our memory card supplier.

[A]

Speaking of Prograde, they did put out a press release about the Artemis 2 launch. That NASA chose them and their Iridium cards to go into space over every other card company.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

They tested and they were the only one that passed. So I hope they have redundancy because it's space and it's different. But that is pretty cool. That. See, that's something I can talk about. But. So the reason that we do the Pro Grade stuff that I say we put it into those other videos where we show cards is those Are long burn videos to build product awareness. If someone is going to watch a Sony a7.5 product, what do we call it? User guide. And this is the first time they bought a camera and they hear us and see us showing the pro grade card. And I say buy reputable brands from reputable places. And I list a couple and I list the places. Well, what do you think people are going to do? They're now it's just brand awareness for the future. But if we were to just take their money and do a promotion for one video, it's not going to pay dividends. The problem is, and it's a problem and not a problem is that you can't track the awareness like that. It's very difficult. But I just tell people like I've worked with Squarespace for 15 years, we worked with PrintIQ and Adoramapics back in the day for fucking 15 years. That it's brand awareness over a long period of time. That when someone is ready to make a purchase, they do. Think back to all of the years that I've said X, Y or Z and done it. I don't want one offs. And Linus Tech Tips talked about the same thing in his amazing video where he talked about everything, about how they

[B]

make money, long term sponsorship.

[A]

Yeah. So I'm photographing this event, coming back to la, enjoying. I enjoyed the event. What I didn't enjoy was when people look at you as hired help. Because I am holding a camera and

[B]

you're not sitting, you're running around with a camera in your hands. Yeah, that makes sense.

[A]

But during the meet and greet periods people are like, you know, look, I'm like, hey, how's it going, huh? Yo. I'm like okay, bro. And be like, you know, right. In these situations I really wish we had like a bubble above people's heads or if we had glasses on that could then give a clout score for actual non bullshit followings.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Not, not saying that people's worths are quantified or determined by their following.

[B]

How many followers you got, bro?

[A]

But it certainly helps make a discussion easier when you know someone isn't full of shit. Yeah, speaking of someone full of shit who's not full of shit. Remember Gear Patrol? No Gear Patrol bought DP review.

[B]

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

So the guy comes up to me who started Gear Patrol, we're the same age. He's 45, I'm 45 now.

[B]

God, the dad and me, I keep thinking paw Patrol every time you say Gear Patrol.

[A]

Yeah, well he started. He came up and he talked to me. He's like, we bought DP Review. And I was like, why? I was like, why?

[B]

I do wonder how that worked out for them.

[A]

Well, what I said to him is like, I get why. I mean, a 20 year deep repository of searchable information, it's super powerful. He's like, I'll tell you why. He's like, cause it's what I grew up on. He's like, there was an opportunity to save something that was very beneficial to me in my career looking for information and growing up, and it was available and I made the purchase. And we're trying to rebuild the newsroom and try to change it into a thing. And I think the direction that he's looking to go makes a lot of sense. Highly technical, going overly technical and winning

[B]

that market known for. Yeah, that's perfect. I mean, their forums are still huge. I think they actually just redid their

[A]

forums, except for the fact they're aging out. Their Nikon shooters are all dying.

[B]

The question is, how much did they acquire DP Review from Amazon for?

[A]

Actually didn't ask that question. That's a good question, because Amazon was

[B]

just gonna kill it.

[A]

They were just gonna let it go.

[B]

So was it like, hey, you can buy it for 10 grand, or was it like, hey, here's, you know, 100

[A]

grand plus, dude, it might have been not much money. I'll ask him. I'll ask him. I don't know.

[B]

That's not much.

[A]

Yeah, I don't know. I could say it publicly, but I'll. I'll ask the guy. So it was. It was kind of cool, you know, I talked to him, I talked to a bunch of other people. Good conversation. I got good photos, which I'm editing now, and then I'm going to share them. They actually had a photographer that came out.

[B]

And so you were photographing against their photographer.

[A]

When they introduced the other photographer to me, I was like, hey, man, I'm like, I'm just taking some pictures. You do your thing. I'm gonna not be in your way. I'm gonna do my thing. He knew me already anyway from my videos. And I was gonna say, yeah, no problem. Like, I'm here just to, you know, this is what I do to enjoy. I'm not. And he did the group stuff and there's other things that I was around for, and that's totally fine.

[B]

So I didn't see the photos that you took besides the Stefan Macchio ones. How were your pictures?

[A]

They're really good. I'M editing them right now. That's the next thing I'm editing pictures. Of course they're good to turn over. Yeah, of course they're good. They're good. Okay. They're good for an event. But what I focused on is, so the event started at 8:30. I got to Venice beach at 7:30 because it took 45 minutes from Tyler's house to get to Venice beach at that time. If I left 20 minutes later, it took an hour and 15 minutes. And if I left any later it would take an even longer. But what was cool is I got there and they let me work, which was awesome. And then I just started taking the candid images of people hanging out and talking and doing their thing. I didn't want to just shoot the conference thing in the conference room though. They did have nice lighting, which was great. They had stage lighting.

[B]

I know we spoke about that quickly last week. You didn't really know what the space was going to look like and I know it was more about the backstage stuff. So you really didn't take many pictures of the presenters themselves?

[A]

No, I took a couple of the presenters because it doesn't change with the stage. But they had cool stage lighting. It was in a room which had windows but they were blocked by like curtains that were all the way across. So it was a. No, no outside light at all. But they had stage lights that they whoop. Because I talked to the guy who's running their video stuff, he's like, yeah, I'll be turning all those on. I was like, perfect. Awesome. And that that allowed us to get some pictures. Very, very good event from a creator standpoint. Being around other creators, talking to other creators, which like I said, is a double edged sword. It's great to hear what people do, but I really wish there was a clout score. So you know who's full of shit and who's not when you're talking to them. I'm not saying that any was full of shit there. This has happened many times where people talk a good game and then you like question it and you look it up and you're like, oh, they were full of shit. And I don't like that.

[B]

I've seen in the photography space all the time where people talk a big game and then you look at their work and you're like, what? Like really?

[A]

You know, I call people, I call people out.

[B]

Well, just some people are so technical and they get into the weeds with this stuff about, you know, tech specs and blah, blah, blah and sensor Size and all this. And then you look at their work and it's like, why do you care about this stuff if you can't even like, compose an image properly or expose an image properly? Some of the most highly technical people that, you know, I feel like are some of the worst photographers.

[A]

Bleep, bleep and bleep. So I ended up leaving the event slightly early after the. After the last speakers went on because I had to get to Stefan's concert area. And, dude, an hour and a half. Took me an hour and a half to go, like 14 miles. I got there at 5 o' clock when the place opened. And this was what we were talking about last week when I was talking about what lenses to use at the event, at the LA event, at the conference. I used 28 to 70 F2 all day. Like, that was a tremendous lens. And I did a couple of 10 millimeter wide shots to show the entire room at F4. And then I broke out the 85 because I took a bunch of VCM. Yeah, VCN or M M, M, M. Right. VCM lenses. And the 85 came in handy for getting slightly tighter shots of people on stage, which is what I wanted to get right. And so that was good. But the 28-70 F2 was perfect for that. But with Stefan, the night before, I was at his studio and he was practicing. That's where the VCM lenses came into play. The. The. The one fours. I took the 20, I took the 35, I took the 85. I did not take one picture with the 35 because it just. It was unnecessary. I actually used the 20 because I needed something wider in his space than 28. But the 10 to 20 is not great because it's F4.

[B]

Oh, sounds like the discussion we had last week and you're like, 10 to 20 is fine. Like, yeah, but you might need the 1 4.

[A]

It's fine for 10. It's fine for the wide stuff, right? It's because it's what it's specific needs are for.

[B]

Oh, I know, dude.

[A]

If you had a 10 almost at a 10, 2, 8. But if you had like a 102 or something. No, ideally, I think a 12 to 18 F2 would crush. Yeah.

[B]

I've always said I really like what Sony did with the 12 to 24 to 8. I mean, yeah, it's not an F2, but it's better than F4. It's a stock better.

[A]

There's something weird with that lens. I'd still say to this day, there's something Weird with that lens.

[B]

I think you got a bad copy too.

[A]

I have two of them.

[B]

The second one you never use, it's still, like, wrapped up.

[A]

You don't know where one of them is. Actually, I do. Someone's had it for two years at the Phillies. It's been great. He's borrowed it since the playoffs, the World Series, and I know where it is. It's just. I have two of them. But the 20F2.1 4 came in handy in the studio itself because it was a very dark studio and it was good to have. And then I realized that the difference between 1.4 and F2 is. What's that one stop, right?

[B]

It's one stop.

[A]

Yes. It's not that big of a deal in this day and age.

[B]

Well, keep in mind you're shooting with an R1 as well, but you can crank the crap out of that ISO. And I saw some of the photos you were talking about, and I think you were. You pushed all the way to like 16,000 ISO.

[A]

That was an accident. Oh, it wasn't an accident. It was probably when Stefan was walking in a back room area and I needed to quickly react. Yeah. And I just spin the. Spin that, spin this and shoot.

[B]

Still, it looks like most of your images were 10,000, 12,800. I mean, high stuff that I would have never shot years ago. He couldn't have pushed it to 12,800.

[A]

Half the time in the studio situation, I was much lower. He actually had like a barn door light LED setup that he uses for doing Instagram.

[B]

So I saw that. I kept thinking it was like you guys put like an iPhone light or something on him because it wasn't the same warm light that was around the rest of the room. It was a very cool daylight.

[A]

Well, it depended on what color I changed the temperature to. I left it warmer. Well, that's probably the edit where I pulled certain things out.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But no, the 20 was good there. But then I started playing. Do I leave the. So too much Lens correction is on. Way too much. But it over brightens the edges. I have to bring down the vignette again when that is on and it

[B]

distorts the crap out of the edges. In my opinion, it stretches the image because of the lens correction.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So how's the 21.4? I haven't played it.

[A]

Well, that's what I'm talking about, the 21.4.

[B]

So it's just as distorted as, like the 10 to 20.

[A]

Well, not as distorted as that, but there were times where I turned off the lens correction because I preferred the smooth, round edges of the bowing, slight bow with the vignette. So there were just times in the studio where I'm like, no, these lines are too straight. I don't like it. They're too corrected. There's just. And, you know, you and I both like having natural vignette because it helps with the subject. I'm seeing it with the shit I'm editing. I'm like, why does this look so bad? Because the edges are so bright.

[B]

The main issue for me is that it could brighten it up nearly two stops in the corners. And if you're shooting at, say, 10,000, 12,800 ISO, it's going to look ridiculously noisy and distracting in those corners. And yes, I do think by default, they correct it way too much.

[A]

Right. And so now that when I sit there and I drag that vignette back, I'm like, even if I keep the lens correction on, I grab the vignette and it's down to almost zero to the left. And I'm like, see, that feels better because that makes the edges less distracting and draws you in. So the VCM line is a fantastic line to have, but if I had to make a decision between having the versatility of a zoom or carrying around those VCMs, I'm going to buy the zoom all day because it's only a stop. It's only a slight stop. Now, where it becomes even more questionable is when you go from 12 to 14 and it's a half a stop. It's a half a stop. That is nothing. It is almost unnecessary to have those 12 lenses, especially traveling.

[B]

Yeah. I do still think you get a different look with, like, a 35 1.2 versus a 35 1.4. I do think there's a little more pop there, but for the most part. Are you going to notice that much? Not really. Unless you were truly comparing images side by side. Like, it's still going to be a great image at the end of the day.

[A]

Well, and a lot of it comes down to size and weight and travel. Do I want an 85 12, which is three times the weight, at least close to that of a 85 VCM. So, you know, when I go to Paris next week, I will take the R1, 28 to 70, 10 to 20, and the VCM. Sorry. And the 85.

[B]

And back to the distortion discussion. I do think that's the trade off is you're trading that distortion for a much smaller lens and relying A lot on the digital lens correction these days, which is good and bad.

[A]

Yeah. So the Stefan. Stefan show was good. Now he's playing at a restaurant with almost no lighting on. And. Yeah. And you saw. I went to different angles, got some different low shots.

[B]

And he's wearing black, right?

[A]

He's wearing black. There really aren't any lights on him. So I'm doing the best that I can.

[B]

Separation.

[A]

Yeah. And then, you know, I'm happy with what I got, with what I had. First off, I was happy to have dinner. A really, really nice dinner that I ordered, all of the appetizers that I wanted, the raw stuff. Oh. And I was like, hey, can I shoot in your kitchen? So I shot in the kitchen. I shot the chef and other people preparing meals. Because then I can give them the photos and it's just another thing I could shoot when I was there.

[B]

So how does that work? Was he just performing for whoever was eating dinner or was it actually like a concert at a restaurant?

[A]

So the thing about this restaurant is this whole block is owned. All the buildings are owned by a producer who's won like 18 Grammys and also bought the building. So there's this. They do. So the whole place is sound, set up for sound. There's sound panels on the wall. And they said that there's bass traps in the ceiling.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

So they're big holes that are open in the ceiling.

[B]

It's what we need at the factory for all the terrible reverb.

[A]

So they have bass traps and it's really set for music because the owner's friends all come and play. And when we're talking about owner's friends, right next door is the music studio.

[B]

So how are they separating the kitchen noise? I mean, is that pretty much sealed off?

[A]

Oh, I didn't hear shit. You don't hear anything from the kitchen

[B]

because, you know, the kitchen usually have like a door that just swings open kind of thing.

[A]

Oh, no, they had there. They were thick doors that were doing that. So he's at this restaurant, but it's a few step walk from a place called Larrabee Studios, which is a, I'm told a famous, famous studio place. Oh, holy shit. I'm looking at the client list and it's in order. Holy geez. I see tupac. I see 30 seconds to Mars. Five seconds of summer.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Asp, Rocky, Adele. Jesus Christ. It's just. This is in order and it's infinite.

[B]

Depeche, already insane. Heavy hitters. The first five names.

[A]

Demi Lovato. Oh, yeah. Dildo Odaido. Ed Sheeran. Duffy. Oh, man. Remember Duffy. You got Iggy Azalea. Imagine. I mean, this list. If you guys just go and look up Larrabee Studios, you will see an un. Oh, Vanessa Carlton. I wonder if she did Black Eyed Peas.

[B]

Don't have to play that for you.

[A]

Temperature. No, he does play that for me, by the way. Sometimes I ask for it and he says he just breaks into it.

[B]

Oh, yeah, I'm looking now. Wow, Lincoln Park. Yeah.

[A]

That is a. Unbelievable studios.

[B]

Yeah, Bieber.

[A]

So I wonder if it says who owns it. Yeah, it's a super famous studio down there in L. A. And. Oh, Carol King. Oh, my God. No. Okay. I don't want to get too sidetracked into that, but it's amazing. Yeah.

[B]

It says Larrabee Studios has been a leader in the LA music industry for over 50 years. Wow.

[A]

I think most people, those people in the industry probably know it and then I don't because I don't really pay attention to those things. But yeah, so the guy owns that place. So he also has the restaurant. So if friends are in town, like if Ed Sheeran wants to just go sit there and play, they'll go sit there and play during dinner. So, yeah, people bought. Came in for dinner knowing that Stefan was gonna play for 70 minutes. So you get there 6 o', clock, 6:30, you start eating.

[B]

But are you buying like a ticket or.

[A]

I don't know. If you had to buy a ticket,

[B]

you simply show it up at 7pm

[A]

no, you're buying a table. You're reserving a table.

[B]

Gotcha.

[A]

Or you buy dinner, you get drinks. And the dinner was great.

[B]

But does that reservation account for a ticket price? Is it an extra hundred dollars because of the included performance?

[A]

Well, I don't know if they charge for it. I really don't. I have no idea. I don't know if they charge for that. I think it's just your ticket. You reserve and get dinner. So maybe it's. I don't know, maybe that's 50 bucks. I have no idea. But the dinner was fantastic. I ordered all the good stuff. And when I went back to shoot the chef, I was like, yeah, I got like. I got like five appetizers. He was like, oh, that was you? I was like, yeah. I was like, all that difficult. Amazing. It wasn't difficult. I ordered all of this. So I didn't get the bread on the menu. So I could. Because they had a flourless chocolate cake for dessert. I asked before dinner, so I know not to Eat the bread so that I don't carb load early and fill up so I could have that thing late. And it was good. They actually took care of my dinner because I was at that table and I dropped a hundo as a tip.

[B]

Oh, look at you.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, I had to. You have to do that. You have to do that when you're doing a dinner and someone takes care of your dinner. It doesn't matter. It's 100 bucks. It's at least 100 bucks. You just drop. You just give them that, you know, change. Well, no, because you would be a dick if you don't leave anything. You remember we did that back in the day when we did that. Atlantic City, Caesar's palace, dude.

[B]

The amount of food that was presented in front of us. Oh, we had to be like, stop. We can't.

[A]

I just couldn't do it all. They just. He sent. I saw him recently at a modest Yahoo show. The guy who did that. The chef. Yeah, he remembered. Of course. Remembered that.

[B]

That was incredible.

[A]

Yeah. So the. The whole thing with Stefan photographing the show, you saw a couple of pictures at the end. Yes, That I posted, that I gave you, or they were in the folder, the blurry pictures. What did you think?

[B]

Well, at first, I'm like, oh, my eyes are trying to, like, adjust because they're literally just blurred out. Like pictures of Boca balls.

[A]

Yeah, basically.

[B]

And then I quickly realized, like, oh, it's Stefan. Like, in the middle of the frame, you can kind of make him out. I like the first number. 138. Like, that image where you can still kind of make out that it's Stefan playing. I don't know if you need to include, like, seven pictures of this, because they, honestly, to me, kind of look like just mistakes. Unless you explained them, you know.

[A]

Well, yeah. And that. That's what I would. I would do. So it's hard to explain this because you guys aren't looking at it, but just think of if you just did varying differences of manual focus.

[B]

If you miss focus. Just. Just think of that. Yeah.

[A]

Not even missing. I literally had. I was sitting there.

[B]

I'm saying it mimics missed focus. Right Foreground, missed focus.

[A]

But what happened is I was like, all right, there's not much I can shoot here. I already did all the other stuff. That's the basic shots of him playing, you know, getting the sign in the background. So for the restaurant owner, I could send that as a gift. I flicked the lens to manual, and I wanted to just see what the Bokeh balls would look like from where I was sitting with the VCM lens on.

[B]

I actually think this image is trash because the bokeh balls aren't perfect. There's a lot of onion rings. Just trash. Trash. Throw it out.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Hate the pokeballs. Ruin the image.

[A]

Love when people talk about that shit.

[B]

Very distracting.

[A]

I just started taking a couple of pictures that way. Just completely out of focus. Varying points of pokeballs, varying points of focus. I was just rotating manually and like the reason I did that is I. You never know if they want to put a background on a. On a album of some kind. You never know if they want to use it for. For online but put text over it and so he's out of focus. But it's a great thing listing an album tracks because it's. It. It was just different.

[B]

This being part of a full photo story with obviously focused images in the same scene makes total sense. I. I get it. But if this was standalone by itself, that's when I would be like, right, you gotta explain this to me.

[A]

Right. But I just wanted to try it.

[B]

Yep. No.

[A]

And I think there's varying success there. Some. Some are good, some are not, but it will. Like I said, you literally could see him put the track titles across it. Right.

[B]

I could see it being used alongside an image that is in focus and then like you said, put text next to it or something like that.

[A]

And not being done with gauzy and blur. It was correct. Done in camera.

[B]

Well, because the. The bokeh is almost in focus in some of these shots.

[A]

Right? Correct. So anyway, that was the whole reason I went to la was actually not for Stefan. I didn't realize Stefan was going to be playing on the 20th. And me happy birthday after 9:30. Because technically nine thirty, I live on the east coast, was really after nine, you know, nine o'. Clock. So yeah, at the end when he was there and everybody was gone, he just played me Happy Birthday on the piano and called it a night. And that was LA at two and a half hours of sleep. I don't know how I functioned yesterday,

[B]

but Yeah, I assumed you were going to film photo news fix some point today because you were going to crash out early. But. But good for you.

[A]

Rode it on the plane, ate my lunch here. I still bowled last night. I had a 220something. I had a good last game. Crushed it. So, you know, it was good. I love bowling. God, do I love bowling.

[B]

You do, yeah.

[A]

And the last thing I want to say is Thursday, I'm supposed To fly in the evening to Paris. And by the way, there's no more Chick fil a at the Philly airport, Stephen.

[B]

What?

[A]

Between B and C? It was bored. It was. I don't know if they're redoing it or it's gone. But look, I'm not a huge Chick fil a fan in terms of eating. I wouldn't eat it multiple times. It's not something I eat all the time. But when I'm gonna be doing a long flight. I know that Chick fil a doesn't bother me, right? It doesn't hurt me. It doesn't cause me to fucking evacuate my bowels within a minute. Explode.

[B]

Explode.

[A]

I get 12 nuggets, some ketchup, two ketchup packets and a medium fry. And I drink water.

[B]

Oh, that's what Hannah eats.

[A]

12 of them.

[B]

No nuggets and fries is what I'm saying, right?

[A]

Believe me, if there was salad, I would also add a salad. But I make sure the reason I do that is it's protein, fat and carbs. And it's a good amount of calories for powering me on a long flight to not get hangry. And then I also fill in five or six hours later with one of my RX bars. Sorry, my scratch bars and nuts and all that stuff. It's just. But it sucks that they. It's gone. I don't know what else to get at the airport because the lounge food isn't good.

[B]

Where was it? Was it coming or going to Japan? We were both going to get Chick fil A and then it was a Sunday and it was closed when we left the airport.

[A]

Dallas, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We're like, oh, Chick Fil A. Oh, it's Sunday.

[A]

Yeah. It's always when you want it.

[B]

No, that's when you say, God damn it.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. How dare you? Yeah. And with that, Stephen just got struck down by a bolt of lightning. He's gone. So, yeah, Paris is coming up. I talked last week about deciding on what camera to take Leica Wise. And it was made very easy because B and H didn't have an M11 monochrome in stock. And the fact that they can take stock new items and allow me to borrow them $20,000 worth of gear is kind of insane. So that's a good relationship we have. I just asked and they shipped out an MEV 1 35, 14 Summilux, or whatever the expensive one is. Extra battery, a grip for the thing. And I'm taking that to Paris. Of course, I'm going to keep everything in tip top boxes and everything because they have to not resell it as new but they will offer it as an open box item.

[B]

So they take a hit on that.

[A]

Yeah, but they also understand the long term value of branding and market. Like they understand the long term value.

[B]

What do they expect from you?

[A]

I told them I'm gonna be making, I'm gonna be making a video about it. They didn't expect anything.

[B]

They don't mention like you need to mention no B and H sponsor this or they know.

[A]

They don't tell you what to do.

[B]

They do such a good job working with creators. They really do care.

[A]

They are very good. They are right people. They are very good at them. Yeah. So.

[B]

So no black and white, no monochrome?

[A]

No, but I'm going to set it to monochrome.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And that's gonna be no rangefinder experience.

[B]

We're using an evf, we went on that last week.

[A]

Because it's built in in. It's not a rangefinder anymore.

[B]

That's what I'm saying. It's not a true Leica experience. No, but mainly because of your eyes.

[A]

But it is a Leica experience. Except for the fact that they changed it to be that.

[B]

Yeah. It's just you think of a Leica, you think of a rangefinder, which is the whole reason.

[A]

The same rangefinder shape and size and manual focus and doing all of that.

[B]

So you're going focus peaking. Gotcha.

[A]

100%. So I have to go shoot it, I have to go set it up, try it out and use that. But that's going with me.

[B]

And this is like the Sony sensor, right? The 60 megapixel?

[A]

Well, yeah, it's their really good sensor. So they say, believe me, I would like the monochrome but at the end of the day I'm sure I can match and make things look just as good.

[B]

Well, it's not gonna be the same as a monochrome sensor. Less shadow noise and not as sharp, blah, blah, blah.

[A]

Can I tell you what the Leica people said? Because I got a connection to Leica through a friend, made a connection, requesting something like I tried to go through the person I met in Germany who's a vice president at Leica and I never heard back from them after like, oh, this would be fun. This would be great. Yeah, no, so the reply back was I've checked with our teams including marketing and we are at capacity for loans and collaborations at this time. And I'm like, cool, so you'll give some douche wizard with 12 followers, a new camera, but you won't make something available for this. And yeah, that is like one of those do you know who I am? Things without me saying, do you know who I am? It's like, this is why B and H is so good.

[B]

But do they realize that it's a simple like loaner, like, need it for a week type deal? Like, it's not like, hey, I don't need a long term loaner or a paid collaboration.

[A]

It's exactly what I said. Actually, I didn't reply to them. The reply I started to write was not very nice. So I didn't send it it because I'm like, well, my friend made this connection. I don't want to be an asshole, but I really do want to be an asshole. I literally started writing. You guys are fucking idiots. Like, seriously, you are not going to send this, but you will send, send a bunch of shit out to people that have no reach or anything. But you can't. Don't give me this. You can't make something available. We're at capacity and we, we can't do collaborations at this time. Because you do. Yeah, you just do them with the wrong people or the perception of who you think is right. Because they're not gonna be. They're sycophants. They're the ones who are gonna take pictures of their damn Leica, not with their Leica, and just share that. Whereas I'm gonna go use the damn thing. And I understand how to use it. I'm not gonna shit all over it. But I'm gonna talk about the process of using it. We'll see how the quality is. The whole point is I want to slow down what I was doing and I want to see how it works. But I'm still taking my 28 to 70, 10 to 20. And I'll still be going to the Louvre, which I gotta buy tickets.

[B]

You're still bringing your whole cannon setup.

[A]

I didn't really think. Okay, unless you want me to really force myself to just fucking not.

[B]

It depends. Like, I don't know if you're just dedicating like one day to the Leica and the rest is still using the cannon. Or is this entire trip gonna be

[A]

strictly Leica by entire day or you mean I fly in on a. We get there Friday morning, we have Saturday, Sunday, and we leave Monday.

[B]

Oh, you're only there for two days? Pretty much two and a half.

[A]

Well, three days. We get there early, we get there at 8:00am on Friday.

[B]

Oh, okay. Gotcha. You're doing a red eye.

[A]

Well, they're overnight flights. Yeah, it's a 6pm flight. Gets you in. It's only. It's like a six and a half hour flight. It's not the longest flight. It's almost what I just did to la, so. Because it's quicker going because of the tailwind across the Atlantic.

[B]

What's it, six, seven hours? Six, seven.

[A]

It's about that. And then on the way home, it's like seven and a half.

[B]

So when you get there, it's going to be like midnight, 1:00am here, 8:00am there, 8:00am, and you're going to start your. Oh, that's going to be rough.

[A]

I don't know what we're going to do. I might. Well, we can't get the Airbnb until 3, so if nobody's in the Airbnb, they can let me in early so I could offer to buy. Like, I'm like, guys, let me reserve the day before or just let me meet you as soon as we land. I don't want to wait till three. It's more of a problem, especially because we're going to have gear and stuff. So anyway. Oh, this is also your last show for a minute.

[B]

Yeah. I am officially having my second born.

[A]

Yeah. When?

[B]

Tuesday, January 27th.

[A]

You think you'll be able to get there? You think if we have 25 inches of snow, you'll be okay?

[B]

Yeah, it's a great time to have a newborn, you know, right when we're about to get hit with a massive snowstorm. Apparently.

[A]

Apparently they're saying that we're going to get anywhere from 1 inch to 27ft of snow because apparently my grandpa only lets me watch the Weather Channel.

[B]

The forecast is all over the place right now. It's going from 6 to 12 inches to anywhere. Like they're saying over a foot in some places. So it's supposed to stop here Monday morning, but I'm hoping that whole day will be enough to Plow, because Tuesday morning is when we're. We're going to be delivering her.

[A]

So Mr. Plowing, that name again is Mr. Plow.

[B]

But yeah, I'll be obviously not on the show for the next two weeks.

[A]

I mean, I don't even know what Stephen's paternity leave looks like.

[B]

I'm taking four months off.

[A]

It's whatever he does. And then what happens is he's like, okay, I'm bored. I need to get back to work.

[B]

Well, no, like I said, two weeks is what I'm aiming for. Obviously, it depends on. We're doing a scheduled C section. So if the cesarean goes well, then. Then we're fine. But if the surgery doesn't go well and there's a lot of recovery, obviously I'll need to help out a lot around the house and won't be able to work, but.

[A]

What's that? Nancy, what's that? Fire. Steven, don't let. Yeah, let's see how that goes. Can we do that?

[B]

And luckily, we have a lot of stuff in the can that we filmed over the past two weeks or so, so.

[A]

Well, we have major videos. We don't have a lot of small videos, which are major videos.

[B]

What I'm saying is I'm gonna have to go through them anyway. So when I do come back, I'll still be working from home for the most part, for probably at least a week or two, if I had to guess.

[A]

Well, and our new employee and I are going to Paris to create content that I'm bringing him with just, I don't know, on a whim. I'm just like, we're going to Paris, whatever.

[B]

Just have a game plan. That's all I ask. Well, have some sort of game plan. Think about the video. Think about pre production. Yeah, we have to sit down, run around, and aimlessly shoot.

[A]

No, no, we're going to sit down and talk about it this week. And by this week, it's already Thursday. So probably tomorrow he'll come in because of the snow on Saturday and Sunday, and we leave next Thursday. We'll talk about what the plan is for being in Paris and what that is. But there's also a plan for another cool video when we're back. And then also there's all the Fonda photographer stuff that I can do with him. That's starting to happen. So it's just like a slow process. We haven't talked much about a new employee, but we just got to get it right, get the onboarding stuff done so that it sets us up for success long term.

[B]

I spent the first half of this week getting him updated with a lot of how we work and reviewing videos and showing him behind the scenes of, you know, timelines and project files, stuff like that, all the effects we use, just getting familiar with the brand overall. And it just. It takes a while to kind of get someone new on board, but we're good.

[A]

The whole point is also to give him some free rein to create. Of course, it's just fine.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Which is kind of a little bit like, you know, putting out that vlog for Kenya is a. It's not saying that's what we're looking to do, but it's also. So documenting what I'm doing out in the world is something that I would

[B]

like to see 100%.

[A]

So we're going to wrap it up right there. I have to edit some images to get back out to the LA peoples. Steven's got his stuff. I got to eat lunch. I got a call at 1 which is very interesting, Steven, which I can't tell the public about. About something that's coming up that I mentioned to you that might be the official photographer for something. Oh. Oh. But we have to see because, you know, I don't like working for people. I have to see what their expectations are. And also time wise, because it takes place in Miami and my jammy. And we have to. I have to make a decision there.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

Yeah. It's opportunities and you just put yourself into places to be successful and you can't control everything. But think good things happen when you put yourself out there. And bad things can happen too when you put yourself out there too. So don't think it's just all good things. Shit happens. That's the moral of the story. And that is Raw Talk, episode 183. Anything to add before we go, Stephen?

[B]

That is it. I will be a father of two as of next week, so wish me luck. Jasmine to little Cinderella. Yep. Is it Jasmine to Moana. To Jasmine. To Belle.

[A]

Latoya.

[B]

Rapunzel.

[A]

Latasha.

[B]

Ladasha.

[A]

Remember Ladasha?

[B]

Yeah, Ladasha.

[A]

L A spell out dash. Ladasha.

[B]

Yeah. Not a physical dash. You spell out dash.

[A]

Dash. All right, guys, thank you very much for listening. Happy birthday to me, Jared. Polinfrontosphoto. Com. See ya.

[B]

Bye.