Skip Bayless | Ep. 170

Summary

FULL SEND PODCAST – Skip Bayless | Ep. 170

Release Date: October 6, 2025
Podcast Network: Shots Podcast Network
Guests: Skip Bayless
Hosts: Kyle, Champ, and others

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Episode Overview

This episode of the Full Send Podcast features legendary sports commentator and debate icon Skip Bayless. The conversation dives into Skip’s fitness regime, his unconventional entry into sports journalism, the evolution of sports media, and his polarizing views on LeBron James. The hosts challenge Skip’s most infamous takes on basketball history, dig into heated debates about LeBron, Kobe, and Michael Jordan, and get candid insights into Skip's career, podcasting ventures, and memorable moments from television.

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1. Skip Bayless’ Fitness Routine & Marathon Stories

[01:12–05:47]

Key Points

• Skip’s daily fitness ritual: 1 hour of cardio every single morning, plus weights three times a week.
  • “I'm not bragging about it. I'm just addicted to it because I like it.” – Skip [01:36]
• Former psycho marathoner: ran 10 marathons; used to run outside but now sticks to treadmill/stationary bike in LA for safety.
• Host Kyle recounts running his first marathon solo in India due to scheduling conflicts; both bond over the discipline and motivation running gives.
• Discussion about ultra-marathons and the role of health/fitness in maintaining discipline amid unhealthy lifestyle temptations.

Notable Quotes

• “It's a never ending battle from here on, but it's just funny to me to watch [ex-athletes] turn back into us… there's no magic pill to it, you know...” – Skip [04:24]
• “If you take anabolic steroids, it won't do you any good unless you go to the gym.” – Skip [05:36]

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2. Skip's Origin Story & Sports Journalism Advice

[06:00–12:33]

Key Points

• Skip’s path began when a tough journalism teacher, Liz Burdette, noticed his raw talent for sports writing in high school.
  • She forced him into journalism, marking a turning point in his life.
  • Won a full scholarship to Vanderbilt for sports writing.
• Emphasizes old-school sports journalism: paying dues, knowing the game, and building expertise through writing.
• Comments on the shift in modern sports media: now, personality and entertainment often outweigh true journalistic credibility.
  • “I'd like to think that the people they put on now have great personalities… they have some on air attraction that works.” – Skip [12:33]

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3. The Evolution (and Decline?) of Sports Media Credentials

[12:33–14:51]

Key Points

• Discussion of qualified veterans (e.g., Adam Schefter) vs. recruits with little expertise.
• Rise of entertainment-driven sports takes: less emphasis on depth of knowledge.
• Examples of recent embarrassments on-air (“…she thought it was Shador [Sanders jersey], and it was a Barry Sanders…” [13:10]) as signs of waning standards.

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4. On “Hot Takes,” Clout, and Regrets

[14:51–15:13]

Key Points

• Skip asserts he never offers takes he doesn’t genuinely believe: “Like not one time. Never, ever.” [14:51]
• Hosts press Skip about past controversial takes, including being accused of putting Kwame Brown in his all-time starting five—Skip discredits the claim as fake news/AI confusion.

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5. Skip’s Most Controversial Views: LeBron vs. Jordan vs. Kobe and More

[15:15–42:57]

Key Points

LeBron James’ Clutch Gene & GOAT Debate

• Skip is steadfast: LeBron is outside his top 8 all-time NBA players, ranking #9.
  • List includes: Jordan, Magic, Kareem, Shaq, Tim Duncan, Larry Bird, Kobe (all above LeBron).
  • “[LeBron was] not born with a clutch gene… when it comes to making the shot at the moment in the game, LeBron has been a disaster because that is not his forte.” – Skip [16:30]
• Believes Kobe “was a cold blooded basketball killer. Mamba. 100%.” [20:01]
• Points to numerous “epic fails” from LeBron in big moments (2015 Finals against the Warriors, 2013 Finals Ray Allen rescue, 2017 Finals Game 1). Reference to LeBron passing in clutch situations: “If you have the guts… you take that shot to win or lose the game, especially when you have a hot hand.” [28:16]

Legacy and Longevity

• Skip does credit LeBron for unmatched “longevity and durability” but won’t call him the greatest ever: “No one has ever been able to stay healthy enough and spirited enough. You got to still love it, man...” [39:38]
• Unapologetically focuses on clutch factors and fourth-quarter performance to define greatness.

Notable Quotes

• “He’s a really good father… but nice guys finish last. Nice guys aren’t clutch.” — Skip [44:49]
• “If you want somebody who will speak the truth, who's not involved, then I'm your man.” — Skip [36:10]

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6. Personal Interactions & Relationships (Jordan, LeBron, and More)

[46:13–53:17]

Key Jordan Stories

• Michael Jordan anecdotes:
  • Michael using “imagined enemies” like GM Jerry Krause: “I'm going to imagine this golf ball has Jerry Krause's face on it.” [48:49]
  • Bulls practice stories and playing free-throw games with a blindfold.
  • Recalls Jordan’s legendary obsession with winning and intimidating competitive edge.

Notable Quotes

• “Michael always had to have somebody to hate… do not get in his way or he will slit your throat.” – Skip [46:47]

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7. Modern Sports Issues: Shadur Sanders, NFL Bias & Cultural Perceptions

[54:01–62:13]

Key Points

• Skip slams the NFL for perceived bias keeping Shadur Sanders from a fair opportunity:
  • “The NFL decided to teach both son and father a lesson… we don't do it the way you guys do it.” [56:17]
  • Attributes Sanders’ draft struggles to institutional resistance to difference, image, and success in NIL/college.
• Hosts and guests discuss the “good old boy network” and why Sanders fell in the draft despite talent.
• Critique of how the league and media still struggle with outspoken or non-traditional Black athletes.

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8. Critiques on Halftime Shows & Pop Culture

[62:13–63:10]

Key Points

• Bad Bunny chosen for halftime: hosts are dismissive (“He sucks” – Kyle [62:23]); Skip admits he doesn’t know enough to judge, but notes Bunny’s massive popularity.

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9. Jokic, Current NBA Stars, and All-Time Rankings

[63:10–64:49]

Key Points

• Why Jokic and other current greats don’t get instant “all-time” love from Skip: needs to see body of work finalized.
  • “He's the most gifted big man we've ever seen. All around…” – Skip [63:32]
• Acknowledges context matters: Steph, KD, and Jokic could definitely force their way into his top 10 by the time they're done.

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10. Skip on Media Career (ESPN, Podcasting, and Sparring with Athletes)

[69:18–71:52]

Key Points

• Discusses satisfaction and difference in doing his solo podcast versus the back-and-forth, live TV debates.
• Loves facing former athletes who “did play the game that I did not play. And I live for that.” [69:57]
• Gives respect to new athlete-podcaster voices for bringing authentic, behind-the-scenes stories.

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11. Most Intense On-Air Moments: The Richard Sherman Incident

[71:52–80:01]

Key Points

• Recalls the infamous Richard Sherman on-air confrontation: Sherman called in and ambushed Skip, leading to a viral, career-defining TV moment.
• “If I respond in kind to him at that point and it blows up... then we’re going to lose our shot at having an afternoon show.” – Skip [75:00]
• Skip dissected being live, under pressure, trying to handle confrontation with professionalism and composure; praises from bosses for holding his composure.

Notable Quotes

• “I got more kudos from the bosses... over that lot than anything I ever did because I held my own without losing my temper.” [78:28]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments by Timestamp

• On his unwavering opinions:
  “Like not one time, not one time. Never, ever.” – Skip [14:51]
• On LeBron’s legacy:
  “Has a long history of fourth quarter flame outs which is why I have him ninth.” – Skip [42:57]
• On Michael Jordan’s killer instinct:
  “Do not get in his way or he will slit your throat.” – Skip [46:48]
• On modern sports media:
  “Now YouTube is filled with people who…” – Skip [12:33]
• On handling confrontation live:
  "I'm tiptoeing, but I'm not backing up. I'm tiptoeing forward and trying to hang in with him and not let him just run over me..." – Skip [78:28]
• Exchange on LeBron owning ‘real estate’ in Skip’s head:
  Champ: “Does he own real estate in your head, you think? A little bit.”
  Skip: “Oh, none of his head, right? Yeah, I do. I do. Yeah. That's hilarious. So I educated you. Finally you learned something.” [69:06]

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12. Final Thoughts & Show Plugs

[80:01–80:12]

• Episode closes with thanks and a plug for Skip’s new show, Arena Gridiron, and his continued passion for real sports debate.

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Summary

This episode is a classic Full Send clash: sharp, funny, and deeply revealing about Skip Bayless, the persistence of sports broadcasting as performance art, and the never-ending debate about what constitutes greatness in basketball and beyond. Whether you’re a LeBron stan or a clutch-loving MJ fan, Skip’s unfiltered, passionate approach ensures there’s plenty to entertain, infuriate, and maybe even enlighten.

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Listen if you want:

• Authentic behind-the-scenes stories from sports media’s most polarizing figure
• A deep dive into the LeBron-Jordan-Kobe GOAT debate
• Firsthand accounts of Michael Jordan’s legendary killer drive
• Hot takes, hard questions, and a glimpse into the mental grind of on-air debate
• Insights on ongoing issues of culture, personality, and credibility in sports today

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Transcript

[Kyle]

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[Champ]

There's nothing better.

[Kyle]

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[Skip Bayless]

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[Kyle]

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[Skip Bayless]

Appreciate that.

[Kyle]

How we doing?

[Skip Bayless]

That depends on you. You're.

[Kyle]

I mean, I just. You just complimented me, said I'm looking fit. But you're looking.

[Skip Bayless]

You're looking jacked, bro. Well, I'll accept that. But you look really good. Thank you. Yeah. And you. Let's go. I know for a fact it ain't that easy.

[Kyle]

It's not. How often do you work out? A week.

[Skip Bayless]

I do cardio every single day.

[Kyle]

For how long?

[Skip Bayless]

For an hour. I'm not bragging about it. I'm just addicted to it because I like it. And so I can't start a work day without an hour of sweating. And then I hit the weights three days a week. Monday, Wednesday, Friday.

[Kyle]

What do you do for cardio?

[Skip Bayless]

Stationary bike or. I run on the treadmill. Used to run outside like a maniac. And I found in LA it's just too dangerous. And I took my life in my own hands numerous times out here in this traffic and finally said, that's enough of that.

[Kyle]

Too dangerous because of cars.

[Skip Bayless]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. For years and years, I. I was a psycho marathoner for a long time. Back in the day.

[Kyle]

And how many marathons have you done?

[Skip Bayless]

I did 10.

[Kyle]

I ran my first one in February.

[Skip Bayless]

You did?

[Kyle]

Yeah.

[Skip Bayless]

Where?

[Kyle]

I was supposed to do it with my buddies in Florida.

[Skip Bayless]

Yeah.

[Kyle]

But we were traveling. We were doing a video in India. So I wasn't going to make it back in time because of the flight. So I just, I already. But I had already trained for it and I'd ran 20 miles. So I was like, okay, I'm not going to get out of shape. So I just did it myself in India.

[Skip Bayless]

You did it by yourself?

[Kyle]

Yeah.

[Skip Bayless]

Cool.

[Kyle]

My. Our assistant Gabe was on the scooter like passing me bananas and.

[Skip Bayless]

Really?

[Kyle]

Yeah, it was good.

[Skip Bayless]

And then I'm keep time.

[Kyle]

Yeah, I got four and a half hours.

[Skip Bayless]

Okay, cool.

[Kyle]

It could have been a bit faster, but I think if I was, you know, if I had someone pacing me a little bit, I could have done a little faster solo.

[Skip Bayless]

So you're gonna do it in a crowd?

[Kyle]

I'm gonna do another one in Hawaii in December and then I don't know. Are you familiar with Gary Breca?

[Skip Bayless]

No.

[Kyle]

He's a like a biohacker. He's helped like Dana White with his health. I'm with his son. I'm doing a hundred mile, 100 miles at the end of January.

[Skip Bayless]

Yeah, 100 miles.

[Kyle]

How so you have 36 hours to do it.

[Skip Bayless]

Yeah.

[Kyle]

And I think Stein is going to jump in for some of it.

[Champ]

Yeah. A couple miles will come in, say what's up?

[Skip Bayless]

And do. Can you walk?

[Kyle]

Yeah. I think you sit and you like. I've seen people like changing their shoes and like you stop to eat. So it's different than a marathon. I don't think it says cardio based. I think it's more just like time on feet.

[Skip Bayless]

Yeah.

[Kyle]

Staying awake for 30 hours. But it'll be interesting.

[Skip Bayless]

Why are you gonna do that? What's your motivation?

[Kyle]

I mean with our stuff we're always like traveling. Like we obviously own an alcohol brand so we're into some unhealthy stuff. So I find when I find when you put like, you know, healthy stuff or like workout based stuff, you just put it on the calendar. I think it subconsciously it keeps you, you know, dialed in.

[Skip Bayless]

Yeah.

[Kyle]

You know, because if I'm like, you know, if I have to go to Vegas this weekend, also in the back of my head I know like, yo, I'm running a marathon in December. Like I can't fuck off too hard. Or if I do going to off in Vegas. Let's be real. You will the next day I got to get up, okay. And I can't lie in bed or I can't go eat like a shitty meal. I got to go sweat it out.

[Skip Bayless]

True.

[Kyle]

Maybe jump in the cold tub and then right back to business.

[Skip Bayless]

You know, I work with a lot of ex athletes in what I do. Constantly debating with them, sparring with them on show. And it, it's intriguing to me because for most of their lives up to this point, they were forced by, by just their profession to stay in shape. And, and the literal games kept them in shape. And then all of a sudden they turn back into a normal human that we have to deal with where there, there are no shortcuts. You and, and I watched some of them slowly expand this way because they're like, well, I, I did all the, you know, I, I had to work out. I had to work it, I had to do this. I had to play the games. And then they become normal humans and they're like, damn, I have to do it again tomorrow. Yeah, you do, because if you don't, you, you, It's a never ending battle from here on. But it's just funny to me to watch them turn back into us as, as far as staying in shape because there's no magic pill to it, you know, even if you take anabolic steroids, you, it won't do you any good unless you go to the gym. Right. Told you. What?

[Kyle]

Steroids.

[Skip Bayless]

What about it?

[Kyle]

You always want to jump on a cycle.

[Champ]

Yeah. Testosterone. When the time's right.

[Skip Bayless]

Yeah.

[Champ]

I said I'd try steroids out, but.

[Skip Bayless]

If you want to get bigger or more ripped or more cut.

[Champ]

Steroids.

[Skip Bayless]

Okay. But it's, it's, it's fine if you do the work. You still have to do the work. Yeah, and if you do the work, it'll really work. Yeah, definitely.

[Kyle]

You asked me how we got started in this. How did, how did you first get started in like sports broadcasting?

[Skip Bayless]

My life changed when I was a sophomore in high school. Like, act of God if you will, because neither of my parents finished high school, I'm pretty sure, and I was the oldest of three. They were both alcoholic wrecks and didn't care about my schooling or anything else. And by fate, I wind up in an English class in a public high school taught by the journalism teacher. And she taught one a day just to see if she could find anybody who could write a little bit, who would write for the school newspaper. So first day of school, she assigns us all a book report. She said, I don't Care what you just pick any book you like, read it and write me a one page book report because I want to see if any of you people can write. She was very intimidating and sort of psychologically verbally abusive of the kids because she just, she's above it all. So I'm a sports guy, always played everything. And I chose a sports book, wrote a one pager, but the book was so bad that I ripped it and I never written more than my name and, and I wrote a scathing, Like I didn't know any better. I wrote a scathing review of the book because it was just crap. It felt like it had been written overnight. And in, in about 20 minutes, I just blasted the hell out of it. And I thought, I don't know any better. I'll turn this in. And a week passed. Friday bell rings, we're going to the next class. And she says, skip Bayless, I need to see you after class. So I don't know, but this is going to be the turning point in my existence. She said, you're coming into journalism. And I thought I was in trouble at that, you know, like, like I'd done something wrong. And she said, no, no, I. You're going to write me two sports columns a week. I said, I play sports. She said, I know you play sports. I've checked up on you. You can still play for these teams, but I want you to also write about the teams, okay? I, I don't know anything about journalism. She said, you don't need to know anything about journalism. You can just write. I said, well, how do you know I can write? She said, I just know. Trust me, you, you've got the gift of writing.

[Kyle]

That's crazy.

[Skip Bayless]

Okay. I'm like, okay. I guess my path just changed because I thought I'd play college something, and I wound up not being quite good enough to play college anything, as most of us do. But I wind up writing two sports columns. And by my senior year, I played on a baseball team with a coach I hated. And at the end of the year, I blasted the coach. And it's funny because I didn't need to quote anybody because I'm on the inside, you know, like I'm, I'm actually playing for, for the team. And so I can do inside chapter and verse of why he's a bad coach. And I was off to the races. So, you know, like, like I realized, well, people like that because they got to know something they didn't know from the inside out. And then I ended up winning A scholarship to go off to Vanderbilt University to write about sports. And this is back in the day when sport, you know, written. You know, the newspapers just dominated in those days, and there was no real TV or radio yet. And then it was just a natural segue into talk radio first and then into television next, because life changed, viewing habits, consumption habits change. And so I just went with the flow from radio to television now to Internet. So. But she did it. Her name was Liz Burdette, my journalism teacher. And she. She just forced me into something. I wouldn't be sitting here if that hadn't happened.

[Kyle]

Have you ever went back and seen her?

[Skip Bayless]

She's not with us anymore, but I got inducted. It's no big deal. Into the. I was Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, but I got inducted into the Public Schools hall of Fame in Oklahoma City. And she came and sat at the head table with my mom, who's no longer with us. And that was Night of Nights where I was able to thank her. There must have been a thousand people there. I. I thanked her in front of a giant crowd for what she did for me, and I kept in touch with her and I told her all along that she was it. I wouldn't have done it without her. And when she said, you're coming into journalism, it was like, it. It. It wasn't a will you. It was, you are. So it was the offer you cannot refuse. And she was very. She's very intimidating. She had big black hair, big red lipstick. Everybody was afraid of her. And so I was like, well, if she's blessing me, then I. I might. This must be right. And my scholarship that I won, the Vanderbilt, she did everything. She.

[Kyle]

That's crazy.

[Skip Bayless]

Signed me up. She told me I was going to go to the University of Oklahoma because every friend of mine was going there because it's a great party school. And I just thought, well, I'll just go with the flow. And she told me, you got to take the SAT because it's for out of state kids to, to take instead of the act. And. And so I had to go take this. And I thought, this is crazy. I'll never win the scholarship. And then I. They don't pick it until late in the year. And I came in one night from baseball practice, and I knew Nashville, Tennessee, where Vanderbilt is. Is area code 615. And my mom, who was never home, left me a note on the kitchen table that said, somebody called from area code 615. And when I saw, you know, like, life just changed. I'm out. I'm free. Like, I've. I've got my ticket to ride now. I got a full scholarship to Vanderbilt that she could have never paid for. So I was off to the races.

[Champ]

I'm honestly curious about that. So your story and just based off of like, Adam Schefter, who used to write for the Denver Post. Now he's one of the biggest talents at espn.

[Skip Bayless]

Know him well.

[Champ]

It seems like this whole old school journalism college, it's not even a thing anymore. Like, I can't even watch some of these shows because it seems like they just bring on anybody. Have you noticed that throughout your career, like, even right now, how. It just seems like there's no qualifications to go on there and speak on.

[Skip Bayless]

This stuff to be on the show.

[Kyle]

You mean, like.

[Champ]

Yeah, just even on like an ESPN panel.

[Skip Bayless]

But. But your point is Adam was qualified. Like, he paid dues.

[Champ]

Similar story. Like he went to Michigan journalism. Same path, kind of, yeah.

[Skip Bayless]

I'd like to think that the people they put on now have great personalities, you know, like, they have charisma, they have some on air attraction that. That works, that connects with people. I mean, now YouTube is filled with people who.

[Kyle]

I think that's like. I think that's any TV network now, not just sports.

[Skip Bayless]

Okay.

[Kyle]

Like, I was, I was watching Fox News the other day. Yeah, same thing they're putting on any conservative girl.

[Skip Bayless]

Yeah.

[Kyle]

On there right now. Like, I saw a chick at like a Republican Party that was like hammered and. And then I looked on the TV and I saw she was like giving a take on like Ukraine and Russia.

[Champ]

And I was like, dude, the specific.

[Kyle]

Reason I brought this, just no qualifications.

[Champ]

I think of this. I can't even remember what her name is, but she was with a friend of yours, Stephen A. Yeah. And our buddy Drew was on there. And she's like, well, you're wearing the Sanders jersey and it's a Barry Sanders. And she thought it was Shador. And she's sitting there on espn and I'm just like, okay, how is this position possible? And I guess it makes the point of, like, how can you tell when someone just trying to be an entertainer.

[Skip Bayless]

Yeah.

[Champ]

And like stir the pot, which you know how to do very well. Or if they actually believe in that.

[Skip Bayless]

Take, we'd have to take it case by case, you know, with. With each new person that we're talking about. But it was funny to me because I am, as my wife will attest, a sports die hard. Like, I'm crazed. I watch everything. To her regrets. I. I just, I can't I'm going to watch it anyway. So I was possessed with this job. Like I. I truly actually care about it. And yet I came up with a number of guys out of the newspaper mold who were certainly qualified to do the job, but who didn't really love sports, but did it because like everybody says I can do this, so I guess I should do it. So there was always a big continental divide for me between guys who really care about it and guys who could take it or leave it and just did it because, oh wait, TV's starting to pay money, so I think I'll do this. And I assume a lot of those new people are just doing it because they have a spark in their personality that works on tv.

[Champ]

Would you agree that there was a lot of times where you just said stuff that you didn't believe in but you knew would get rage bait or.

[Skip Bayless]

Like not one time, not one time. Never, ever.

[Champ]

Wait, you saw the starting five? When can we bring up the starting five with Kwame Brown? I think you had in your all time starting five.

[Skip Bayless]

I did not. Yeah, you did.

[Champ]

This was ten years ago.

[Skip Bayless]

False right now.

[Champ]

Looking up right now.

[Skip Bayless]

Okay, well, you read some bogus. This is real as a kid, Brown. Wrong.

[Unknown Guest]

What's one take you regret the most in your career?

[Skip Bayless]

I don't have any regrets on really. I'm just telling you the God's truth. You can ask anybody who's known me forever. I have no regrets.

[Unknown Guest]

Has there ever been like a player that you've criticized, like approach you face to face? Like has ever gotten like to the point where it's been like on a hostel or just yell like.

[Skip Bayless]

Sure. I mean, many times more when I was in the newspaper phase, always like every other day.

[Champ]

Really?

[Kyle]

It was more back then.

[Champ]

Well, because you show them this so he sees it.

[Skip Bayless]

Okay.

[Champ]

It says Skip Bayless, starting five.

[Skip Bayless]

You can read the names. It's just a lie.

[Champ]

Is this AI?

[Skip Bayless]

I don't know, but Kwame Brown was a complete.

[Champ]

Can you read the names?

[Skip Bayless]

One player on my team and that's Michael Jordan. So voila. Here's my team and I'm gonna have you. This is a joke. They're all joke. Yeah, everybody's a joke on here. Okay. They're all jokes.

[Champ]

Okay. The Internet twisted works then it's okay. They said this is your all time starting five. So they twisted it a little bit.

[Skip Bayless]

Rub starting five. Well, it's just ridiculous. Okay.

[Kyle]

Tick tock. Kyrie.

[Skip Bayless]

LeBron.

[Champ]

You said Kyrie over LeBron, right?

[Skip Bayless]

Kyrie over LeBron. Is a clutch shooter, definitely. Yeah. He won LeBron one of his rings with a late clutch shot in game seven at Oracle Arena.

[Champ]

So what about you don't think LeBron won him his ring? Couldn't you play that both ways?

[Skip Bayless]

Sure. No, you could. But again, my issue with LeBron from the start is not born with a clutch gene. Great player, great offensive player, not so much on defense over the last 10 years, but when it comes to making the shot at the moment in the game, LeBron has been a disaster because that is not his forte.

[Unknown Guest]

So he'll never be the goat in your book?

[Skip Bayless]

Heck, no. Really? Okay. Over Michael Jordan.

[Unknown Guest]

I mean, he's first in all time scoring. He's top 10, top five and rebounds.

[Skip Bayless]

Six in the finals.

[Unknown Guest]

I mean, still four time MVP.

[Champ]

You know what time, Champ, what about this statement? Would you agree that if Stephen Curry didn't exist, LeBron would probably be the unanimous best player of all time? Steph Curry, like, if he didn't exist?

[Skip Bayless]

No, it's just Michael Jordan, Period. End of story. If Michael didn't exist, I guess we could get a discussion going about where's LeBron in your.

[Unknown Guest]

In your rankings?

[Skip Bayless]

I have him nine overall.

[Champ]

And you really believe that?

[Unknown Guest]

And who's. Wait, who's behind that? So who's. Who's one through eight?

[Skip Bayless]

One through eight. I got Jordan, I got Magic, I got Kareem, I got Shaq. Tyler, you might help me on this, okay. Because I haven't changed. Tim Duncan is up there.

[Unknown Guest]

Tim Duncan underrated.

[Skip Bayless]

Yeah.

[Unknown Guest]

Larry, you, Kobe over LeBron.

[Skip Bayless]

Yes, definitely. Like, I don't know about that.

[Unknown Guest]

I'm gonna be very honest. Like, I love Kobe, but I think I. I think LeBron's over.

[Skip Bayless]

Would you want ball in hand late game, game seven for your life?

[Unknown Guest]

I know, but I was fully about that. I mean, LeBron has accomplished so many things in the sport, right? So you can't just base it off the last two minutes. I mean, I don't think that's fair.

[Champ]

Why does the last shot define who the better player?

[Skip Bayless]

That's not fair at all. It just does if over time. Because LeBron in the biggest moments has just been a nightmare. That. So many epic fails from LeBron. If you look hard at his career.

[Champ]

Didn'T he average 40 in that finals when Kyrie won?

[Skip Bayless]

He did.

[Champ]

I mean, that's pretty impressive.

[Skip Bayless]

No, no, you're talking about the one where they lost to Steph. He still averaged four games.

[Champ]

I think that's when they were saying he.

[Unknown Guest]

20, 18, 2016, 20.

[Skip Bayless]

Game five, 2013, 15.

[Unknown Guest]

2015.

[Skip Bayless]

He was. Yeah. That's when LeBron was at his greatest for the first three games. And he's up two games to one without. He'd lost Kyrie to the fractured kneecap and he lost Kevin Love before the finals even started. And what happened in Game 4 in LeBron's house when he had a chance to shut my mouth for sure. Because now, now you got a chance. You're up two to one with game four in your house in Cleveland, Ohio. And go look at what happened. He was 7 of 22, he was 3 of 8 from the free throw line. He was 2 of 8 from 3. And they got waxed because Steve Kerr switched Andre Iguodala onto LeBron to guard him. And Iggy took him to the cleaners on offense and on defense and became the mvp. Well, he became the MVP of the series, so you laugh, but he was the MVP.

[Champ]

Yeah, okay.

[Skip Bayless]

That was the change right there. So LeBron had a chance that make a big statement and he failed.

[Unknown Guest]

Going back to the Kobe, LeBron thing. What? So besides the last two minutes, why do you think Kobe's better than LeBron? I mean, LeBron has led his team in more championships, he has more MVP, but he's number one in scoring, he's top five, top 10, and literally everything. So I don't, I don't understand how you could put Kobe over LeBron.

[Skip Bayless]

Because Kobe was a cold blooded basketball killer. Mamba. 100%. This is a team game at the.

[Unknown Guest]

End of the day, Skip.

[Skip Bayless]

Okay, I got it. But Kobe could assist when he decided. But when it's time to score in the biggest games. I know he had Shaq, but for a long time, LeBron had D. Wade and Chris Bosh and, and Spo and Pat.

[Unknown Guest]

You could say the same thing for other players that are great as well, like, you know, same thing for Kobe.

[Champ]

Kobe doesn't get enough.

[Unknown Guest]

Tim Duncan had Tony Parker manager. You know what I mean?

[Champ]

They never bring up Paul Gasol either with Kobe. And he was.

[Unknown Guest]

They never. Yeah, he was good as far as leading your team. And like, you know, you. You say championships are everything, right? I mean, I'd say so, right? If you're winning a lot.

[Skip Bayless]

Look, if I could take LeBron as a baby at 18 or whatever, Kobe at 18 as a baby, and I'm going to start my team with one or the other. I'm taking Kobe. So in my rankings, I agree with you. I have your rankings, but I'm putting Kobe just to have. If you really look hard at. @ LeBron's epic fails.

[Unknown Guest]

But you're focusing on the negative, Skip. I think you got to look at what.

[Skip Bayless]

All right, he's done for the game. Think what happened in Game 6. And I was a Spurs fan at this point because I love Parker, Chanel, Blaine, Tim, obviously, but that's first seems good. Game 6, 2013 finals. Down the stretch of that game in. In the last three minutes, LeBron had three turnovers in this game, three unforced error turnovers where he just. Just made a bad pass that got stolen. In the last minute came two of those turnovers. Then LeBron misses the big three to tie long. Rebound out Chris Bosch. Why Tim Duncan was on the bench. Don't get me started, but that's my lifelong beef with Coach Pop. But he wasn't. He was out of the game for whatever purpose. So long. Rebound to Chris Bosch, who kicks it quickly and deftly into the corner. To Ray Allen, who somehow gets his feet behind the line and makes the greatest clutch shot I have ever witnessed. Of magnitude. It was magnitude that was insane. Sent the game to overtime, and it tore my heart out. It ripped their hearts out. And they could not get up off the mat. And that shot saved LeBron from being 3 and 7 in the Finals. Right.

[Champ]

Why does that tear your heart out?

[Skip Bayless]

Because I was a Spurs fan.

[Champ]

Just because you like them. Like just the lineup of the players.

[Skip Bayless]

Yeah. I mean, I just love the way they played that. They played real, live, beautiful basketball was an old school, fundamental. It was fundamental and it wasn't fun to watch. Most people called them broccoli. Broccoli?

[Champ]

Yeah.

[Unknown Guest]

No, it's a first team. That spurs team was good.

[Champ]

Yeah.

[Unknown Guest]

2013. 20.

[Champ]

I remember three hall of Famers on that team.

[Skip Bayless]

They did.

[Champ]

Let me ask you.

[Skip Bayless]

So did LeBron.

[Champ]

Yeah, he did.

[Skip Bayless]

But. Okay, so then the next year, just to finish the point, game one, the spurs win. But game two, Chris Bosch has a huge game and they win. So it's one to one going home to Miami. This is a 2014 finals against the same San Antonio spurs. And go look it up. I don't want to bore you with the details, but LeBron just disappeared in games.

[Unknown Guest]

Kawhi was showing up throughout the heat.

[Skip Bayless]

Three, four at home. And then they went back to San Antonio for what became the closeout game five. And LeBron was. Was just a ghost. And they lost. The Miami Heat lost the finals by a record finals margin. They got blown out by more points than any teams ever lost to finals. And it was five games. What they call a gentleman someone's sweep. And even I, as a non LeBron fan, was like, man, what. What's wrong with you? And I never heard that he was hurt. They usually come up with some big excuse or something. And then let's just do one more. Just, let's go to 2017. Okay? Now. Now we're to the warriors versus LeBron.

[Unknown Guest]

Just come on, dude. Katie stuck.

[Skip Bayless]

You can't explain game one, okay? At Oracle, LeBron has the. He's a terrible shooter. He's. I can just show you the stats for. For his career. From three. He's 34. It's. It's. It's bad.

[Champ]

Well, he's gotten way better recently.

[Skip Bayless]

Okay. He has. I. I do give you that. Just last year. It's year 22, and I'm saying, where were you all these years, man? You say you're in the lab in the off season and you couldn't improve that. And his free throw shooting is even worse. It's gotten. Well, he always says, I'm in the lab in the off season. I'm saying, why don't you stand at the front line? Hilarious.

[Champ]

He's really improved on a three point shooting later in his career.

[Skip Bayless]

All right, but lately he didn't have to. I mean, no one's ever.

[Champ]

But he didn't need that. He didn't need that early on.

[Skip Bayless]

Okay. All right, so we got this game one at Oracle, and he shoots the ball from outside better than he ever has in any finals game. He is crazy on fire hot, which occasionally he gets. But this, this mattered because this is the biggest stage in the sport. You have a chance to win game one against a clearly superior team. To your point, with Kevin Durant and Steph and Clay Draymond. Okay, all right, I got it. We get to the end. 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. They're down one point. They have a chance to. To make history here. And he gets. LeBron gets the switch he wants. He gets Steph on him. And Steph's. I don't know what he's listed. 663.

[Unknown Guest]

Like 190.

[Skip Bayless]

Yeah, whatever. 6, 2 ish. LeBron is a full 6ft, 9 inches tall. He's got him and he's got. He's. Maybe it's. It's like the Jordan shot at Utah that won game six. The most famous hold the post shot. So. So LeBron has a chance to do this is from maybe a foot or two outside the free throw line. Go up and shoot a jumper. But. But you're gonna have to shoot it, do or die. Because if you miss, it's over. Okay. Because you're down. Once he starts to go up and at the last second, he passes to George Hill. He used to be a San Antonio spur who I never liked because I never trusted him in these kind of clutch situations.

[Champ]

Yeah, yeah.

[Skip Bayless]

He passes it to George Hill and Klay Thompson's like, okay, you got me, I'm going to tackle him. So he just tackles George Hill, left George Hill to go to the free throw line, which you have to do at that moment. George Hill goes and makes the first, and you knew what was coming. Yeah, he misses the second one and J.R. smith gets the rebound and loses his mind because it's, it's like two seconds left and he's dribbling away from the basket, triple it out. Thinking they were dribbled out the clock, but at least he did make the first one. So we do have overtime. Okay, this is where LeBron completely loses me as a crybaby diva that he's always been, he goes over to the bench and he won't sit with his teammates during the timeout before overtime. Remember, if you could have told LeBron James before the game, this will go to overtime, would he not take that?

[Unknown Guest]

I think he would.

[Skip Bayless]

I don't know what they would 10 or 12 point underdogs, you know, like, it's, it's a mess. Series was. Yeah, okay.

[Champ]

But they did have two chances to win the game and he put them there.

[Unknown Guest]

No, but like before it was Golden State. Like, yo, Golden State's gonna win again.

[Skip Bayless]

George.

[Champ]

No, he's a good free throw shooter.

[Skip Bayless]

Damn.

[Kyle]

He didn't sit with the team.

[Skip Bayless]

He didn't sit with the team. He sat away from the team. Like, I don't want to. I wouldn't want to associate. You don't think got.

[Champ]

You don't think Jordan or Kobe might have responded the same way?

[Skip Bayless]

Jordan would not have. Who knows?

[Unknown Guest]

I don't know.

[Skip Bayless]

I don't know. They. They would probably go chew out. I feel like Jordan would have Smith on the bench. They probably would have been in his face, but they would have said, okay, yeah, you are going to do this with me right now. We're going to do. You're going to help me win this overtime. That they would try to scare him back in, scare him straight as they say, you know, get, get him back where. Don't lose him. Because the team's looking at, at LeBron like, okay, you don't want to associate with us. We let you down? Okay, screw you. And LeBron goes out and pouts for the first three minutes of overtime and doesn't take a shot as they fall behind by seven and predictable. I think they lost by 10. I. Okay. Because LeBron quit because he. He's like, you know, we. We had him, but he knew in the back of his mind he should have taken the shot.

[Champ]

If.

[Skip Bayless]

If you have the guts and the balls and you're that guy, you take that shot to win or lose the game, especially when you have a hot hand. If you want to tell me it's not my forte, you got me. But on that night in that building, that had been his forte. So that's another. That's an epic fail to me, because then they get swept.

[Kyle]

You know, they.

[Skip Bayless]

They get swept.

[Champ]

Still going to lose the series either way.

[Skip Bayless]

Okay. I don't know that momentum, you know, when you win one goat, if he's the goat, then. Then the goat. If you can go one up on Golden State.

[Champ]

Yeah. But would you agree that that warriors team's probably the best team of all time?

[Unknown Guest]

2017 KD staff, that is 96 bulls.

[Champ]

I don't see how you can argue against the Warriors.

[Skip Bayless]

I can't argue against Michael on any. The 96 bulls. Heck, I covered the 98 bulls. I was in Chicago at that. In that year at the Chicago Tribune. They were really good. And. And I thought Larry Bird's 86 Celtics, they're basically invincible, that they were just so loaded, so deep. But. But to your point, I'm not. I'm not sure the chemistry was that great. I never felt Kevin was very happy there. He never liked Steph. And Steph, you know, Kevin wanted to be the man. And if, you know, Dub Nation raised, you know, he. He. They drafted him and they raised him from baby. He and Clay both up into super duper star. And so Kevin was never going to be more beloved in Dub Nation than Steph.

[Champ]

But you don't think he knew that going there?

[Skip Bayless]

No, he didn't know that because he just thought.

[Champ]

How can he not know that?

[Skip Bayless]

He just thought, I'm better. You know, I'm better.

[Champ]

Two championships before he came. He's got to know that.

[Skip Bayless]

Yeah, I don't know. That's.

[Champ]

Do you think that's one of the. That might be the biggest stories in history is KD deciding to go to the Warriors. Like, was that. How shocked were you when you heard that?

[Skip Bayless]

I was not shocked, but I knew too much about what was going on between Kevin and Russell Westbrook in Oklahoma City again, where I'm from, but I used to have battles over this. I'm not a Russell Westbrook fan either, because he is a solo act stat machine who cares way more about what the stat sheet says at the end of the game than what the scoreboard says. And if you look at his path, wherever he's been, teams have turned on him again and again and he just keeps going to another team and another team and I don't know if they finally get. Denver tried him and failed with him last year. And I think he might be out. I think this might be the end of him. And he's not that old, but in Oklahoma City, he was obviously very gifted, as was Kevin. So I was on First Take, then on espn and day after day I started to go after Russell Westbrook for taking more shots per game than my guy, Kevin Durant. And I was just a big Durant fan since he was at Texas in the one year in college and I predicted he's going to win scoring titles in past. The. The guys on my show just laughed at me like, that's bean pole. Like he looked like praying mantis, you know? Yeah, he was so skinny that it looked like he didn't have any man strength at all. Well, trust me, he does. And he did because he looks pretty much like he looked in college. And he. I think he can play and I think he can score. So the point was I'm, I'm defending Kevin against Russell. And then the turning point of that was when I, Russell called over the reporters. I'm sorry, Kevin called over the reporters before a game in Oklahoma City. This is in the middle of the year. And ripped me saying I didn't know about basketball.

[Champ]

Sorry, who said that?

[Skip Bayless]

Kevin ripped me, saying I don't know about basketball for ripping Russell for taking more shots than Kevin. Well, Kevin was just trying to be big brother to Russ and team leader and sort of defending, you know, having the back of Russell and having the team's back against the guy on ESPN who's trying to tear us apart. Well, I'm not trying to tear you apart. I'm just trying to make you better. Because Russell Westbrook is like LeBron. He is a horrendous three point shooter who never improved. He, even this year, he, he's always at the very bottom of the league. And so three point shooting. And LeBron fell for it at one point and that whole. The whole team did, but Anthony Davis fell for it and they, you know, they campaigned, go get Russell Westbrook. And do you did you follow what happened when Russell became a Laker? Yeah, he was a disaster every time he went up to shoot.

[Unknown Guest]

They didn't want him at that point.

[Champ]

I mean, you can't deny him and KD were pretty good together.

[Unknown Guest]

I think it was too young. They were young at the time.

[Champ]

Mark Cuban, remember when Mark Cuban, there's that famous clip of him saying, Mark Cuban says, Kevin, that you're only a superstar and he's sitting next to Russ and then he covers the mic and he says he's an idiot, like defending Russ. So it seemed like they had a real brotherhood. So for that to go down that way, it just never made sense.

[Skip Bayless]

Here's the point to your question. I know for a fact this came from somebody very close to Kevin Durant. He finally decided as he was entering his 10th year in the NBA, I will never win a championship with that guy, Russell Westbrook as my primary decision maker. Every time down the floor because Russ dribbled the ball up and Russell could decide, it's your turn or my turn. And too often to me and ultimately to kd, it was Russ's turn because he's just, he's bull in China shop. You know, he's just like sea, basket, attack, basket. And. And it can be impressive because he was extremely athletic, supremely, like unbelievable. But sometimes he had the basic 10 cent brain going where, wait a second. And then he figured out the stat after Kevin was gone. He figured out, wait a second. If I drive like a wild man and at the last second I just leave the ball on the floor for one of my bigs so that they can dunk it, then the stats start adding up in this thing called assists. And then if I get rebounds, which he. He is the greatest little offensive rebounder in the history of rebound, or any rebounder for that matter, then you make. You have triple doubles. And he did something I thought I'd never see. He averaged a triple double, not just for one year. He did it for four times.

[Champ]

Yeah.

[Kyle]

On Kai. So not Stream recently, I think Lebron, he gave like a long speech at the end. And I think one of the things he said is, like, people that haven't been in those situations themselves have. Have no right to speak. Yo, you were tapped into the Kai.

[Skip Bayless]

Stream quote from LeBron?

[Kyle]

Yeah, I think so. I think he said people that have never been in that position don't pay attention to them and they don't have any right to speak.

[Skip Bayless]

Yeah.

[Kyle]

On those situations. What's your like, response to that?

[Skip Bayless]

I know enough to know That I do my homework and I know his game very well. And he doesn't have to listen to me, nor do any of you guys have to listen to me. But I dare you to show me I'm wrong, because I'm not. So I study it, I watch it closely. I talk to people who know lots of basketball. And I was blessed enough that I did get to know Michael Jordan, and I did get to know Phil Jackson, and I did get to know Jerry Krause, who built those Bulls. And I was in Dallas for a long time with really good coaches and really good players. And I just know what I'm talking about. And you can go. Other than your, your list of the top five all time, I get it's the old. It's like the Teddy Roosevelt quote, the old president who said, you know, I want to be the man in the arena. I don't want to be the guy up in the stands sitting and watching. And I, I get that. But if you want somebody who will speak the truth, who's not involved, then I'm your man.

[Champ]

I feel like if LeBron like, wish you a happy birthday or showed you some love, you'd be a LeBron fan.

[Skip Bayless]

No, I wouldn't.

[Champ]

Why are you passionate about the hatred towards him? Go ahead with what he said.

[Skip Bayless]

He was in my Miami and was on, I think Dan Leitart's radio show and he said this is way back. What was his first year there? 20, let's see, 2011, 12. I think it's right in there. Anyways, just when he first got to Miami and he said, skip is like my Howard Cosell to Muhammad Ali. Now this is probably before all your time. Do you remember Howard Cosell at all? Nobody remember? Nope, nope, nope. Once upon a time, Howard was it in broadcasting because he was a bit of a windbag loudmouth who had outrageous takes. But he was on Monday Night Football as the commentator for many, many years and seemed to do every big sports event, World Series, big Muhammad Ali fights. So Howard had a little banter thing going with Ali. He would interview him before and after fights and. And Howard was pretty wacky and crazy, but. But Muhammad got a kick out of him, so he played the game with him. They played along and they had good banter. So LeBron was trying to compare himself to Ali, which he's not in the same ballpark with Ali, who's. When I was growing up, he was my all time favorite athlete times 100. And I don't like the Howard Cosell comparison, but. But again, LeBron is saying, I get a kick out of it. At that point. I don't know if he still gets a kick out it, but I'm proud to say I don't know him, you know, So I, I didn't. I don't sell out because I like him. I just tell you the unvarnished truth about him.

[Champ]

You guys have never had an interaction?

[Skip Bayless]

No.

[Unknown Guest]

If you had a sit down interview with him, what's like the first question you'd ask?

[Skip Bayless]

Why didn't you work on your free throws 22 years ago? That's what I would ask. I don't think I would open with that. That would be kind of an awkward opening question. But that would be one that I would definitely get to fairly quickly. I would like to know that because it's an unguarded shot from 15ft, uncontested, and it's called a free throw because it's free. It's actually free and it counts a whole point. And, and if you just keep making, as Jordan did 84 or as Larry Bird and Magic did 90%, the. The points just keep adding up. But, but to your point, both your points, despite that, despite being a 73% free throw shooter, which is pathetic for. By his superstar stance, it's pathetic and outrageously, he, he, he should be taken to task for that. And no one ever brings it up except me. But to the point, he's the all time leading scorer in the history of the National Basketball association because he is the most durable human being who ever played any sport. I've never seen anything like it before. It's longevity. He has lasted Longer. We're to 23 years. 23 years long. Yeah. And I just saw today in USA Today, they did their preseason player ranking for the NBA top 10. LeBron was eighth on the list. And I don't, I don't have a problem with that because he is. And Luca was fourth on the list.

[Champ]

Who's one?

[Skip Bayless]

Joker. Oh, of course. Joker was one. If Luca is fourth, I'm. I'm fine with that. In fact, if you told me Luca was one, I'd say, oh, okay, okay, I get it. But if LeBron at age 40 is still in the top 10, which is extraordinary, It's. It's impossible. It's. It's. It's never happened. This is longevity. That doesn't make him the goat. I'm just saying. No one has ever been able to stay healthy enough and spirited enough. You got to still love it, man, because. Because you still have to pay the Price of flying all over the country, if not the world, to play basketball. And he's still got the fire to play basketball. Well, most. Most guys, the fire burns out because there's just too much crap that goes along with it. So I give him all the longevity power that he has. But those two guys combined after they played together for about half a year to lose the first round of the playoffs to the Timberwolves in five games. After. It was one to one after two games. So what happened in the last three games? We'll go look at it if you have time, and I won't bore you with this. Go look at the fourth quarter stats from games three, four, and five, or just this past playoffs first round against the Timberwolves, and tell me what you don't see. What you don't see is LeBron was awful and so was Luca. They combined to be disastrous where neither of them could make a shot or make anything happen. In all three of those games were highly winnable, as close or a point or two, one way or the other, going to the fourth quarter. And LeBron did what LeBron typically does, which is disappear in the fourth quarter. He did it three straight games, and Luka joined him, which surprised me, because to me, Luca can be pretty clutch. As we saw in the previous playoff run when he got the Mavericks to the finals. Okay, so it was. We got all the way to year 22. And as great as LeBron is, he's still not showing up in the fourth quarter. And if you look back at his Laker run, he's been disastrous in the fourth quarter. Do you remember the Denver series? You seem to really follow it closely. Do you remember going back two years ago?

[Unknown Guest]

Years ago, yeah.

[Skip Bayless]

Western Conference finals, Denver Nuggets, now they're on the way to winning a championship. I give you this. There were four straight games, they lost all four in which they were right there going to the fourth quarter. And once again, LeBron, through the combined, the composite four, four quarters, shot 7 of 23 from 3, and they crumbled because he was so bad shooting the basketball. And then remember the closeout game at Staples? Or maybe it was crypto by then, but the closeout game, LeBron had two chances to tie the game in the final 10 seconds and missed the rim with both shots. Both shots, they were contested, but he missed the rim twice. And I'm like, that's horrendously bad. This is actually. This is going back now three years ago. So LeBron has a long history of fourth quarter flame outs which is why I have him ninth. Because all those other guys on my list, trust me, I want the ball in all their hands when it matters the most. That's my criteria.

[Kyle]

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[Champ]

How much bigger do you think your career has gotten by having this take towards LeBron?

[Skip Bayless]

I don't know. I honestly don't think that, like. No, you know what? You're probably right. If you step back from it, that became a thing for me. That became a mantra. I'm anti LeBron. People think I hate LeBron. I don't hate him. In fact, I've always said he's actually he's too nice a guy. I like him from a distance, and again, I don't know him, but I like the way he carries himself. I think he's a really good father. I do. I think he did a really good job raising both the kids from what I can see from the outside in. Especially Bronnie. Bronnie seems like a really good, level headed kid who grew up with serious money. And as you know, that usually won't work.

[Kyle]

That's what we were talking about. Imagine how tough it would be to be LeBron James.

[Skip Bayless]

Oh, gosh, so much pressure and the money on top of it. Where you could say, screw this, I'm gonna go do my other thing. You know, I don't need to try to follow my dad's footsteps, right? So I like him a lot. But nice guys. There used to be a expression in baseball, nice guys finish last. Well, nice guys aren't clutch, you know, like, like he's such a good guy that, that you got to be a cold blooded killer. It's. There's this thing, those champions. Listen, I, I got to know Jordan. Not a nice guy. Trust me. Just as cold blooded when it came to winning basketball games. Do not get in his way or he will slit your throat. That's who he was. And, and that, that trickled into off the court too, where he just wasn't. I was around him. I, I know. And he actually liked me. But the, the point is, you're, you're right about. Has that become my stamp, you know? Oh, he's a. I'm, I'm not a LeBron hater. I'm a truth teller. I just tell the truth about him. And is that one of my things? I like the Dallas Cowboys. That's been a big thing for me. But I grew up a Cowboy fan, so it was. Wasn't fake. From the time I was 10 years old, I'm. I'm addicted to a fault, to the Dallas Cowboys. So that became one of my.

[Champ]

Yeah.

[Kyle]

What's a cool interaction you've had that you could tell us with mj?

[Skip Bayless]

I wrote about this in the Chicago Tribune. He hated Bulls management. He especially hated the general manager, Jerry Krause, who he thought was a fool. And I don't think Jerry Kraus was a fool, but Michael hated him because Michael always had to have somebody to hate. He. If, if you didn't deserve it, he still hated you. You know, he was going to make it up if he had to. I hate him. I hate him. I'm going to get him. I'm going to make him pay. And because they would not keep his head coach, Phil Jackson, because they wanted him out. Jerry Reinstorf, the owner, even recently told me, well, Phil just wanted out. And I never heard that. And I don't know that for a fact. I, I didn't get that. But. But if you watch the Last dance documentary, it's 1998 Chicago again, I'm right in the middle of it. Michael flat out quit. And he was at the back end of his prime. He was 35 years of age. He quit on principle because they wouldn't bring back Phil Jackson and wanted to replace him with a college coach named Tim Floyd from Iowa State. And Michael said, okay, watch this. I'm walking into the sunset. And he stayed gone for three years of his prime, from 35 to age 38. He didn't play basketball, which I thought was the biggest waste of talent in the history of. Of all the sports. So he had just retired. He's playing in a pro am because he fashioned himself. He. He diluted himself into believing he could play pro golf. And he's just. He's. He's good, but not that, you know, like, he's. He's good. Like I can occasionally be good, but not that good. So he's playing a pro am, and he saw me. He waved me under the ropes and said, come walk with me. And so we're walking, and he had his drive in a fairway bunker. Do you guys play golf? Yeah. Okay, fine. Hits his drive 250ish into the right fairway bunker. And these are hard shots, man, because it's. It's a par 5, and he's got 300 left in the green, and he pulls out his three wood. And I'm like, damn, you really going to do this? You. You're gonna try this? Because I wouldn't try that out of the sand. I wouldn't think I could get the club underneath the golf ball and get it airborne out of the sand.

[Kyle]

Just hit the lip of the bunker.

[Skip Bayless]

You're gonna hit the worst. Okay, it's the worst. I did it yesterday.

[Champ]

It can save you sometimes.

[Skip Bayless]

Lip of the bunker.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah, sometimes it was like, roll out to the fairway.

[Skip Bayless]

But sometimes.

[Unknown Guest]

Most of the time, I'll just come back.

[Skip Bayless]

I hate the thud. Thud of. Of. You know, you hear it. I heard it yesterday where it. It's off your club, and you hear an immediate thud into the lip, and it's just, like, excruciating.

[Kyle]

You know what's great, though? When you're in the fairway bunker and, like, you're playing like a best ball or scramble, and everyone thinks you're counted out, a nice fairway bunker shot when you hit the green in regulation.

[Skip Bayless]

Oh, Lord.

[Kyle]

Is one of the greatest feelings and can. When you just nip the ball just perfectly out of the fairway bunker.

[Skip Bayless]

Yeah.

[Champ]

Worst feelings when you can't get out of the sand and everyone's watching you.

[Skip Bayless]

Like three times or four times. Yeah, I totally agree. So Michael take his three wood. And I said, how are you going to do that? And he said, I'm going to imagine this golf ball has Jerry Krause's face on it. So that was cool to me because in Chicago at that time, for me to write that was huge. And then my other favorite Jordan was, they're playing Indiana in the conference finals. Reggie Miller there is. It's a really good Indiana team that pushed them to the brink, to the limit. Took seven games in Chicago. So we're at Indiana and they let us in the media in just as practice had ended and Jordan is shooting free throws for money with several teammates. And he has a blindfold on and he's shooting left handed. I witnessed this, okay. And it, it was down to the last shot and he's going, I again, did he have it down a little bit where he could peek or something? I don't think so because I saw a blindfold and I saw him shoot left handed when he's right handed and he swished it and, and all the guys watching just fell on the floor like, like that's impossible. And he did it to win, however much because he was big money, better, you know, big, big gambling. And then the final Jordan that I also witnessed was there was a K going to escape me. I look it up and then I can't remember because he never did anything. He was from Oregon State. And the Bulls, after Jordan retired, took him at the bottom of the first round because obviously they had won the championship, so they had the last pick. I, I'll think of him in a little bit. But on draft night, he said, my only regret is that Mike retired and I can't take him one on one in practice. And I read it like that's not a, it's not a good thing to say. So they start the next year. About a month into the season. I happen to be at the Berto center where they practiced and Jordan shows up in sweats. And I'm like, what are you doing? He said, I have a score to settle. I said, really? I said, do you know Tim? He said, no, I never met Tim. So he walks out on the floor, introduces himself to the new coach of the Bulls, Tim Floyd, and says, I want him one on one right now. And we're like, seriously? So he unzips and, and the kids horrified. He's, he's, he's saucer eyed, like Jordan has showed up, like God has come back from the dead. You know, this is. Yeah. And, and he wants to play me. And I tried to keep score. They played, I think, to 20 by single baskets, whatever, wherever you shot it, you just got one point. And he beat him 20 to 5. And it was devastating to watch because it felt like it went on for three hours. And, and that was. That's the guy who is by far the greatest player ever. That was cold blooded killer. I'm going to come back and I'm not even in shape because I haven't been playing. And I'm going to annihilate him in front. He wanted us to see it. To shut that kid's mouth who should have been irrelevant to him. Way beneath his dignity. That's Michael Jeffrey Jordan that I got to know.

[Kyle]

Damn. He just naturally loves to win, right?

[Unknown Guest]

He's a psycho winner.

[Kyle]

You still hear that. He loves to, to gamble with golf a lot, right?

[Skip Bayless]

Yeah. And I'm sure he's lost more than he's won. That's my, my gut feeling on that. Because you think you guys know golf.

[Kyle]

Yeah.

[Skip Bayless]

Yeah.

[Unknown Guest]

It gets scary out there.

[Skip Bayless]

It just, it's the one game. It's the hardest game on earth.

[Kyle]

To me, gambling, golf is the funnest thing.

[Skip Bayless]

It's the funnest thing because anybody can get lucky in any moment and hit a three wood out of the fairway bunker 250 yards and have a 15 foot eagle pot.

[Kyle]

What's your game like, what's your handicap?

[Skip Bayless]

I'm a 12. I'm right in there.

[Kyle]

But you should do a full send golf video with us.

[Skip Bayless]

I should. Because if you're on the right day, if, if I make some putts I can play and some days I, I can, I can break 80 and I cannot break 90. I'm. Yeah, we're kind of.

[Champ]

I feel like you're kind of a head case out there though.

[Skip Bayless]

I'm a total head case.

[Champ]

Okay.

[Skip Bayless]

My wife will attest. She's sitting over here. She won't go with me. She used to ride with me occasionally and she just said, I can't do this anymore.

[Unknown Guest]

When's. When did you start golf?

[Skip Bayless]

I was 14 or 12.

[Unknown Guest]

So like, wow.

[Skip Bayless]

Self taught. Got all kinds of issues in my swing and I still try to fix them. I, I had my first lesson like six months ago and it was a nightmare. Like it messed me up way more.

[Kyle]

Yeah, lessons can you up. I hate when they try to change.

[Skip Bayless]

Your grip going to football.

[Unknown Guest]

I mean, what do you think about Shador's situation right now in Cleveland and how you like went mute?

[Skip Bayless]

It's the biggest travesty in the history of the National Football League. I believe in Shador. I believe he was raised to be a franchise quarterback in the National Football League. And he has a natural Feel for playing the hardest position in sports. And you can't teach that or coach it. He grew up around superstars and he just has a manner about him where he knows he can play. And what he did at Jackson State and then two years at Colorado was extraordinary and against long odds. And he took a beating the last two years at Colorado. And there's another spoiled rich kid, quote, unquote. He's as tough as any college quarterback I ever saw. He took beatings and kept jumping right up and completing another pass.

[Champ]

Remember the hit at KU with the guy?

[Skip Bayless]

Yes.

[Champ]

It was crazy.

[Skip Bayless]

It was just crazy. He's just, he's deadly accurate. He has poise and command and just feel for making it happen. And he should have been the first overall pick. Cam Ward struggling at Tennessee. I promise you, Shador wouldn't be struggling at Tennessee the way Cam Ward is. I, I liked Cam Ward. I love Shador. So I fully expected he'd be the first pick or maybe the fourth pick or the fifth or sixth or somebody like when the Giants passed him and after they tried, I thought they traded up for Shador and they took Jackson Dart. God bless you. And Jackson Dart's pretty good. Shador's really good. And the NFL decided to teach both son and father a lesson. We don't do it the way you guys do it. We don't have DJs in the locker room before the game and at halftime, as Colorado does. We don't drive three exotic cars before we even get drafted into this league. We don't want the highest paid college player ever. And we don't want arrogant and brazen and outspoken the way you are. Shador. That's not how we do business up here.

[Kyle]

So you think that was an NFL not decision?

[Unknown Guest]

He dropped the sixth, fifth round, six. Yeah, like, that's.

[Skip Bayless]

I'm not saying, bro.

[Champ]

Yeah, I mean, that's pretty obvious. I think that was.

[Unknown Guest]

I'm sure they wanted to try to make an example out of them. You know, I mean, like, so the.

[Kyle]

Organization told all the teams.

[Unknown Guest]

I don't know specifically.

[Champ]

So fifth round, he had his team interviews.

[Skip Bayless]

Yeah.

[Champ]

They didn't go the way that he wanted them to go. And the team started talking and the word spreads that, you know, he has an attitude problem. And then I think this was. Yeah. Making an example out of him.

[Skip Bayless]

I'm not saying there was a memo about that, like a league wide memo. It's just they're all in cahoots. They all talk. It's the good old boy network and they're like, we're out, we're out. Just don't, don't, don't, don't. And the word spread. And once he dropped through the first round, then they're like sheep think. And it's like, no, don't. Let's punish. Let's punish. Let it, let him fall. Let him fall. And I know this league got the biggest kick out of him falling to a team that clearly he and Dion did not want originally. Because you wouldn't want to be stuck in Cleveland if you could be the first pick in the draft. You, you don't want that. And for him to be stuck in Cleveland as the fourth string quarterback after they had taken Dylan Gabriel 50 slots higher, another quarterback from Oregon via Oklahoma, 50 slots higher. 50. Then Shadour went early in the fifth round. And I'm still convinced the owner of the Brown stepped in, Jimmy Haslam, and just said, okay, that's enough. I want him. The coach hates him. The GM have no, no business. He, he wanted no part of Shador Sanders. But the owner said it'll be a good publicity splash for our organization that is in dire need of some positive publicity. And yet he's, he's stuck. I mean, they had Kenny Pickett, so they traded him, and so that cleared one spot. But my God, they're, they're, they went to camp with seven quarterbacks and I'm like, they're just trying to, to shame him. And the, the shame was the NFL that they should be so ashamed of themselves because he can play. And if he ever gets his chance, God willing, he will seize it and make them all look like fools when he gets his shot. And he just went through a situation where they finally said enough of the guy called Fluco, Joe Flacco. I know he's been great in the postseason, but in the regular season he's Fluco. And so they try to go with him at age 40 and it's a disaster. Yeah, predictably.

[Champ]

Can we say that Cleveland Browns is the worst organization? It's worse when he's just, do you.

[Kyle]

Think he's going to play this year?

[Skip Bayless]

Once they demoted Fluko, I thought, okay, does that maybe open the door? Because they're going to go with Dylan Gabriel, have a game in London and okay, you go with Dylan Gabriel for five games or six games, and surely you're going to lose almost all of them, if not all of them. And at some point, point, give Shador four more. Give him the bottom of the schedule. Give him a chance to show you, because he got his chance flukishly, to start the preseason. In game number one, he got shot. When they all got hurt, nobody could go, and he balled out. You can say, oh, it's just the preseason, but you could see him on stage. If you give him a shot, he's going to seize his opportunity. So I'm just ashamed of the league for this, and I'm. I'm hoping he gets somewhere because, see, they wouldn't even promote him to second team. They said flacco, second. What? Yeah, Flacco, second team. Not. I know it's embarrassing, but they're. They're a clown show. And so then Shador tried to clown the clown show when he was asking questions. Yeah. And he. He went. They said he was like a mime, but mimes don't mouth words. You know, he. He just mouthed his answers without using his voice, which was funny, but I hated it. Only for him, because now he's giving.

[Champ]

Cleveland a reason not to give him.

[Skip Bayless]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah. Now the good old boy network's gonna say, see, that's. That's. Yeah, that's what we don't want.

[Kyle]

Yeah.

[Champ]

What do you think? So it would have been better if he's just like, I respect the coach's decision. I support the team.

[Unknown Guest]

James Winston route.

[Skip Bayless]

Give me. Give me a chance, and I'll. I'll take it. You know, I'll be ready when I get my chance. That's all you need to say at this point, because at some point, you do have to play their game to get the chance. And then when you get your chance, you see capitalize. Yeah, but Rex Ryan the other day on espn, it's been a few days back, but he said. He was criticizing Shador and said, you need to get your ass in the front row and study, you know, front row of the meeting rooms. Well, he does study. Like, that's good old boy perception of this kid, you know, with the DJ in the locker room and the exotic cars, and he's got the cyber truck, and he's. You know, that. That's. That's the white guy view of Shadour. That's dismissing him as. He. He doesn't study. He. He doesn't care. He doesn't take this seriously enough. Yeah, he does. Just give him a chance and watch what starts happening. So I wanted somebody to trade for him at the deadline because they were desperate for a quarterback. And. And when he went mime or whatever you want to call that, you know, then. Then it Gives them an excuse to say, well, maybe, maybe we shouldn't do this. You know, maybe. Maybe this kid's just uncoachable or whatever you want to dismiss him as. So. I don't know. I lost a lot of respect for the NFL on Shador because inevitably, somewhere, somebody's going to give him a shot because this league is always desperate for a. A quarterback here or there. And when he gets it, you better be ready because he will be in the fire.

[Kyle]

And then they chose Bad Bunny as the halftime performance, too. What's your take on that?

[Skip Bayless]

Okay. I don't follow his work enough. I do think. Okay.

[Kyle]

Guy sucks, eh?

[Skip Bayless]

What's that?

[Kyle]

He sucks.

[Skip Bayless]

Does he?

[Kyle]

I don't like his music.

[Skip Bayless]

You don't like super successful? I don't know enough to not.

[Kyle]

He could probably steal any girl I ever date too. But, like, I just. Just don't like his music.

[Champ]

He's probably the biggest artist in the world.

[Skip Bayless]

He's huge. Wasn't he the most downloaded?

[Champ]

Yeah.

[Kyle]

Massive.

[Skip Bayless]

Okay.

[Kyle]

I just don't like his music.

[Skip Bayless]

Okay, but it's all Spanish, right?

[Kyle]

I can't understand it.

[Skip Bayless]

Okay.

[Kyle]

Just, you know.

[Skip Bayless]

Okay. I. I don't. In. What was it? Happy Gilmore 2. I. I did think he was. Was very. Did you watch it? Yeah, Yeah, I thought he was good in that, but that was the first time I ever never like, focused on him because I had no choice because he's in the movie I'm watching. But he kind of played the waiter caddy and I thought he was pretty good at it at that. So that's. You guys know way more about him or I think you do, than. Than I do.

[Champ]

Going back to the NBA. I do want to ask you, is Nicole Jokic. No one ever talks about him as a top 10 player ever.

[Skip Bayless]

Well, like, USA Today put him one, so.

[Champ]

Well, no, I mean, of all time.

[Skip Bayless]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Champ]

And I'm wondering why, like, this is why I stopped watching espn, because one of the analysts said he's not a top 20 player of all time. And it's just like, dude, why would I educate myself with your taste? You sound like a dumbass.

[Skip Bayless]

So it's fair. I do have a hard time with current players. Like, I need to make sure what their body of work becomes. But he's a free time mvp. He's the most gifted big man we've ever seen. All. All around. Because he's better at passing the basketball than a lot of point guards for sure. Like serious, pure point guards.

[Champ]

And he can shoot the three ball.

[Skip Bayless]

He can shoot the three ball and will make big threes in big moments. Yeah, I, I don't disagree. So at some point as he gets later in his career, I'm gonna have to keep revisiting my top 10, because Durant's gonna make a case for my top 10. As will Joker, as will Steph. I don't have Steph in my top 10. And at some point, I, I have to accept their body of work as enough to qualify. So I just don't yet, because they don't seem finished to me. Like, Kevin keeps talking, he wants to play five more years. Heck, LeBron. I'm not going to be surprised if LeBron doesn't play at least two more years. @ least. The Lakers don't want him. The Lakers have said we're done.

[Unknown Guest]

Where would you like to see LeBron at?

[Skip Bayless]

I think he would like to retire Laker. And he was miffed, obviously, according to his agent, that they would not extend him when they extended Luca, who's what, 14 years younger?

[Unknown Guest]

Would you have rather seen LeBron on a small market team before going to Lakers? Like, would you rather see him in like, like in Houston or something? I remember there was rumblings about that before he went to la.

[Skip Bayless]

There have been rumblings with him about every city in America.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah, well, the big market seems like New York, you know, la, but, you know, Houston wasn't such a big. Yeah, you know. Would you have liked to seen him, like, play for a team like that?

[Skip Bayless]

That. No, especially. But I would like to see him as a Nick. I just would, because you got to play the palace, you know, you got to play the Garden. You got, you got to do that. And I'd like to see a year of that at least. What's.

[Unknown Guest]

Who's one player you would have liked to see LeBron play with?

[Skip Bayless]

Play with?

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah, like, out of, like any player in NBA history you think he would do well with on a team?

[Skip Bayless]

Well, Jordan. Yeah. Yeah. But. Okay, because Jordan could teach him a lot. Jordan could show him the way. He, he could feast off Jordan's energy, you know, his drive. LeBron doesn't have that. He doesn't have killer in him. And, and it would be interesting to see if that would rub off on him, but what are the odds, you know? Like, that's just crazy. Yeah. Yeah.

[Champ]

What did you make of him confronting Stephen A. At the Lakers game? And are you afraid, Are you afraid to go to the Lakers game now?

[Skip Bayless]

I'm seriously not. And I would be. I would welcome. Welcome him to confront me Because I would give it right back to him. But I thought it was bush league on LeBron's part because he ambushed him in a. When there was a dead ball situation. I think the game was going on, right. It wasn't at halftime. I think it was a dead ball where there's just a moment pause in the action and he went over and said, keep my son's name out of your mouth or something to that. That. Yeah. And it was an ambush, A hit and run, like LeBron's chase down block in that game seven we talked about at Oracle when Kyrie made the last shot and he had the historical chase down. And I said, well, that's an ambush block. Right, that, that's a blind side ambush where he's coming full speed.

[Champ]

Wait, so you're taking that away from him? Yeah, because block in history.

[Skip Bayless]

Seriously?

[Champ]

Yeah, 100. With the. What was going on in the game.

[Skip Bayless]

Okay, but think about this.

[Champ]

Wait, how can you argue that that's probably the best defensive NBA play?

[Skip Bayless]

Argue that, please. Okay, Come on, man. That's.

[Unknown Guest]

That was insane.

[Skip Bayless]

Especially the greatest. Yeah, so what, what happens on the play? Igadala has a breakaway and he's thinking he's going to dunk it. Because if he's going to dunk it, LeBron's not going to block it. LeBron's going to have to foul him if he dunks it. And at the last second, J R Smith cuts across the path of. Igad. Go look at the play. Tell me I'm wrong about this. Cuts across the the path and Igadala has to hesitate and go half step for a second and recalibrate. Oh, wait a second. I'm out of step now, so I can't dunk it. I'm going to have to lay it up if J R Smith doesn't cut across and assist LeBron by slowing down Igadala. Well, go look at it. No, this is the God's truth. I'm telling you, the God, he didn't.

[Champ]

Give up on the play. He came across the court and saved the game. It doesn't matter what else happened.

[Unknown Guest]

A man's block happened, though.

[Skip Bayless]

That's what I'm. A man's block is face to face, where you just go up and make somebody eat the basketball. Right. Did he see him come?

[Champ]

But that's why it's such a great play. He came across the court.

[Skip Bayless]

It's a chase down ambush. It's a blindside ambush. Like, okay, you want that? You're going to Say, that's the greatest block ever.

[Champ]

I give you what was going on in the game.

[Skip Bayless]

Game, sure. You guys are just like, you guys are just wide eyed blind.

[Champ]

You're saying, like you want to see a guy stop somebody at the rim like your boy. Wait, wait. Didn't Braun stop Thiago Splitter at the rim? Yeah, and you love Thiago. And he stuffed his ass at the rim.

[Skip Bayless]

I jump higher than Thiago. I do. He's a big guy.

[Champ]

He stopped his ass at the rim.

[Skip Bayless]

6:11 and can't jump a lick. He can't jump up higher than a football. Come on. Yeah. Are you guys like LeBron? No. Psycho. Or like.

[Champ]

We love LeBron. We grew up with him like you grew up with Jordan.

[Skip Bayless]

Okay.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah, yeah.

[Skip Bayless]

Do you stalk him or do you.

[Champ]

It seems like you do.

[Unknown Guest]

No, I watch basketball.

[Champ]

Does he own real estate in your head, you think? A little bit.

[Skip Bayless]

Oh, none of his head, right? Yeah, I do. I do. Yeah. That's hilarious. So I educated you. Finally you learned something.

[Kyle]

What do you like about doing your podcast now versus, like being on ESPN business wise?

[Skip Bayless]

I did get back into the flow about a month ago. I'm doing a show with Gilbert Arenas on Underdog called Arena Gridiron. And Gill's obviously a three time NBA all star who wants to get into the NFL business. And we have a number of ex players, starting with my guy, Aqib Talib. And I'm, I'm back into the flow of doing what I always did. It's NFL driven. Arena gridiron. We're on YouTube if you would allow me a quick plug.

[Kyle]

Of course.

[Skip Bayless]

On the Arena YouTube channel. And it has taken off. Should knock on some wood here somewhere. And I'm, I'm back into the debate mode against ex players who did play the game that I did not play. And I live for that. I, I relish it. I, I feed off that because the, the two games I know are the NBA and the NFL. And I am re energized with them in a way that's very different from my own podcast that, on my own podcast, it's me flying solo and it's done very well. But I, I found that I do.

[Kyle]

Feed off someone else.

[Skip Bayless]

This. Yeah, you know, I, I, I love you guys coming hard back at me and if, if you'll be okay with me coming hard back. It's fun. I love it. It's what guys do. It's what everybody does. And so the only thing I've missed in my podcast is just, I I fly solo occasionally. I do interviews and I love that. And I've branched out and I've done a number of interviews with people I know well, like Ice Cube and Billy Bob Thornton. So I do some entertainment interviews and I, I, I'm good at that. I like that. And I like to delve into people's psyches just one on one. But I have missed this dynamic and so I am loving this dynamic back on arena gridiron.

[Champ]

That's awesome. Yeah. A lot of these athletes like Jeff Teague talking about the stories you never get to hear Gilbert. But Jeff Teague's doing a great job too.

[Skip Bayless]

He is doing a great job. So he is. Yeah, I agree.

[Kyle]

What was your like, most intense moment, you think being on espn, man.

[Skip Bayless]

Stephen A. And I used to get into it. I guess it would be my Richard Sherman moment. And I wound up working with Richard Sherman. But it was a ways back, I think 2012, we were doing.

[Kyle]

Yeah, we saw that clip.

[Skip Bayless]

Right? Did you see it?

[Unknown Guest]

Seen it earlier, yeah.

[Champ]

Wait, what the, where he call better life than you?

[Skip Bayless]

Yeah, it's not, but whatever. Here's a quick funny underside of that story. So Stephen A and I are on first take in the mornings eastern time from 10 to noon. And it's, it's doing well. We had some issues. Some people got suspended. I didn't, but some people did. And we were kind of on probation for a while and we got through our probation successfully. And then they said, okay, let's, let's try you guys out, audition you for an afternoon show. Because Stephen, I hated getting up in the morning. He was always up late at games. So he said, said we got to do this because maybe we can get in the afternoon block as a half hour hour show as opposed to two hours. Okay, I'm with you. I'll try. Let's try this. So we were on a two month probation period in the afternoon where we were just auditioning and we'd do a half hour a day on top of the two hours in the morning we go eat lunch and throw together another rundown and just do a half hour. We are to our second to last show. We're almost home and we're getting rave reviews up on the fifth floor from management for our afternoon show. We're thinking we got this. Richard Sherman's people call and say he would love to be on the afternoon show. Would you like him? Well, sure. It's short. It's, it's, it's only like 22 minutes of television with the commercials. But but if we could have him off the top of the show, we could take him for a segment and do, you know, 10ish minutes and. Fine, okay, let's do this. And Richard's people told my producer no controversy. He'd been involved in several controversies. He went after Tom Brady in a game they won up in Seattle. And you like that, bro? I forget what. No, you mad, bro? That was the question he asked Tom. Are you mad, bro? Throw. And he was needling Tom through the whole game, whatever. And yet the peep. The people told me, don't, he don't want to be challenged. Just, just let him talk ball. Off season, this is in March, you know, like it's, it's not even in the season. Fine. And so he's sitting down to get miked up and we come on live and I'm, I'm looking at the monitor thinking, wait a second, he's not ready. And my producer says in my ear, vamp, you know, like, like do something because we're going to go right to Richard. We're in tight TV blocks with, you know, this is all different. You know, we don't have to worry about.

[Kyle]

It's not live.

[Champ]

It's a 30 minute slot. Wasn't it, I think it was from.

[Skip Bayless]

2:30 to 3:30 Eastern Time. Okay, so Richard's, he's got his earpiece in, but they're putting the rest of the gear on. And they come to me and I don't know what possessed me, but I said, I'm looking forward to talking to Richard Sherman. I think he's about to arrive. But he's still not better than Darrell Reavis because he, at that point, Reavis was just, I don't know if you guys remember, Darrell Reeves was Reevis island.

[Champ]

You know, like he was, we remember Champ Bailey too.

[Skip Bayless]

He was the man in Champ Bailey that you could have made that case at that moment. Well, Richard hears this in his ear. He's still, he's not mic'd up. And then he sits down and our moderator asking the first most tame, you know, lame question, you know, it's just some off season football question. And he attacks me. Now think about what, what I'm the hot seat I'm sitting on because if I engage too hard with him and we have an incident, even though it became an incident thanks to him, but, but if I respond in kind to him at that point and it blows up and, and becomes an ugly, so to speak, black eye for the, for the network, then, then we're Going to lose our shot at having an afternoon show. We're going to be back on probation. So for me, I tried to stay above the fray and, and kind of laugh along with it, but still go back at him. And it was hard because I was biting my tongue. And Stephen A. Wasn't even in studio. He was remote and, and he sort of went quiet because I think he was horrified. You know, like, what his face.

[Kyle]

His face is hilarious, huh?

[Skip Bayless]

And I kept waiting. I was hoping Stephen A. Save me, you know, like jump in and. And you don't have to defend me, but maybe defuse or whatever you could do.

[Champ]

You seem like you held yourself, you contained your temper.

[Skip Bayless]

I just tried to hang right in and be rational and reasonable. And I tried to explained, football wise, that I don't think he's the best because he's got the two best safeties in pro football are behind him in the legion of boom. Yeah, and. And he plays a lot of what's just Cover two, where he's got his little area to cover. And he doesn't travel with receivers the way Reavis does, where you, you just. You've got him, you got their best receiver, and wherever he lines up, you go with him. Him, like Richard just stays where he stayed. But Richard was really good, and I worked with him@fox two years ago, so I got to know him and we went through this whole thing and laughed it off. But he heard Reavis is better than me. And, and if you know Richard, he is hot tempered, you know, like he just explodes. And he exploded on live tv. I also think he was kind of on a net. I think I told him this on the air. Like you're on a national campaign to make yourself a thing. You know, you're trying to speak yourself into existence. So I, I thought maybe he was challenging me, the big guy, you know, I'm gonna go after Skip Bayless to, to create more of a name for himself. And there may have been some of that going on. And then Richard's carried him after a while and he's really good. He's going to be in the hall of fame. He is that good.

[Champ]

What did that moment teach you of when you're alive and he catches you off guard like that?

[Skip Bayless]

Remember, my mind's flying a thousand miles an hour because Stephen A. Wants the afternoon slot. And so now I have to recalibrate. How do I do this? How do I respond without provoking craziness? Because we're live now. This is not live to tape. This is Live to live. This is, this is explosive because it's going to go out. And remember, this is Disney owned, abc, espn, and you can. And there'd be potential for a curse word, an F bomb to fly. Not for me, but from, you know, if I keep pushing back. Because Richard, I, I know him, he is volatile. He's had some other incidents in his personal life, off the field life that have been volatile. And I don't know exactly what I'm dealing with at that point because I didn't know him. So I'm tiptoeing, but I'm not backing up. I'm. I'm tiptoeing forward and, and trying to hang in with him and not let him just run over me without provoking. And the funny part was, of all the things I did, in how many years was I there? I'll say 2004-16. 12 years. I was there for 12 years in all the things I ever did. I got more kudos from the bosses on the fifth floor over that lot than anything I ever did because I held my own without losing my temper. That's. That's how they, you know, congratulated me. Yeah, so whatever. And we still didn't get the afternoon show after all that.

[Kyle]

I think this was awesome.

[Skip Bayless]

All right. It was awesome.

[Kyle]

Put the new show link at the top of the description. Make sure everyone goes checks it out.

[Skip Bayless]

I appreciate, Appreciate you, bro.

[Champ]

Thanks, awesome.

[Skip Bayless]

Truly enjoyed it. Thank you. Y.

[Kyle]

Skip Bayless.