Future Hindsight Podcast Summary

Episode: Holding Democracy Accountable: Miranda Spivack
Date: September 25, 2025
Host: Mila Atmos
Guest: Miranda S. Spivack, investigative journalist and author of Backroom Deals in Our: How Government Secrecy Harms Our Communities and the Local Heroes Fighting Back

Overview

This episode investigates the crucial role of transparency in democracy, particularly at the local level, where government secrecy can quietly erode public trust, accountability, and safety. Host Mila Atmos and guest Miranda S. Spivack discuss the increasing alignment of local government with corporate interests, systemic obstacles to accessing public information, the dangers of government secrecy (especially in environmental and criminal justice contexts), and how everyday citizens—"accidental activists"—can push back and hold power to account. Actionable strategies for civic engagement and hope for the future are shared throughout.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Importance of Transparency in Democracy

• Transparency as Democracy's Backbone: Spivack stresses that keeping the public informed is foundational for government accountability. When local governments make deals behind closed doors—often with corporations—the public is sidelined from input and oversight.
  • "Transparency is crucial because if government...keeps the public out and [makes] all kinds of deals with your tax dollars...the opportunity for accountability is very, very diminished." (Miranda Spivack, 03:07)

2. Barriers to Public Information

• Legal Rights vs. Reality: Every US state has open records and open meetings laws; however, most citizens aren’t aware of their rights or how to exercise them.
• Common Obstructions: Even straightforward requests are frequently met with resistance, through delays, excessive redactions, or outright denials.
  • "Most people do not have a clue what they're entitled to get until they encounter a problem in their community." (Spivack, 06:32)

3. Official Reasons for Government Secrecy—and Their Abuse

• Legitimate exceptions such as national security, ongoing criminal investigations, and personnel matters.
• The "Trade Secret" Loophole: Increasing government outsourcing has shifted control over crucial data to private companies, who often over-claim “trade secret” protections to avoid scrutiny.
  • "A water company in West Virginia...blacked out [an] 800 number...and said it was, you know, a trade secret. I mean, crazy stuff like this happens." (Spivack, 12:44)
• Governments are often ill-equipped to challenge these claims and default to corporate judgment.

4. Environmental Secrecy & Regulatory Evasion

• Many of Spivack’s book case studies revolve around toxins (e.g., "forever chemicals") and the misuse of public funds.
• Pattern of Corporate Conduct: Companies push boundaries, ignore rules, and rely on their economic leverage (“job blackmail”) to avoid environmental accountability.
  • "It's sort of ‘do this and ask for forgiveness later.’...The culture is now, I think, amplified, frankly, by the President of the United States: ‘The rules don't apply to me.’" (Spivack, 19:21)
• Lax or complicit state regulatory regimes (often called “Departments of Environmental Mismanagement” by locals) reinforce the problem, especially in poorer communities.

5. The Challenges of Algorithmic Secrecy in Criminal Justice

• Black Box Justice: Proprietary risk assessment algorithms determine bail and parole, but their workings are opaque. Even officials often don’t understand them, and those impacted cannot check for errors.
  • The story of Glenn Rodriguez: Despite a stellar prison record, he was denied early release due to apparent data entry inconsistencies and lack of transparency—a widespread issue.
  • "Nobody understands them. The people who are applying them...they don't understand them. Everybody's accepting this outside system..." (Spivack, 28:45)

6. Grassroots Action: The Power of “Accidental Activists”

• Everyday citizens—sometimes driven by personal crises—educate themselves, organize, and persist in demanding transparency and justice.
• Key Ingredients for Impact:
  • Deep research and self-education
  • Coalition-building and leveraging social media (especially Facebook)
  • Strategic communication: Channeling anger productively, presenting facts calmly
  • Legal support, media attention, and petitions
  • Patience and resilience: Change is usually slow, akin to taking on a second job
  • "You need to build those coalitions...If you come in with a petition of 50 people...they will listen to numbers. So there is strength in numbers." (Spivack, 32:34)

7. Legal Trends and Supreme Court Setbacks

• The Supreme Court has recently strengthened the ability of states to restrict public records to their own citizens and made it easier for corporations to shield information as “trade secrets”.
  • "Thank you, Supreme Court. And I gotta tell you, Ruth Bader Ginsburg was on that court and voted for that. So that was disturbing." (Spivack, 36:22)
• Spivack notes that secrecy is a bipartisan failing, but the current Supreme Court majority is pushing even further toward opacity.

Notable Quotes

• On Transparency Fundamentals:
  • "You're already paying for things that you know nothing about and have had little to no opportunity to provide input into the decision making process."
    — Miranda Spivack (03:09)
• On Public Rights:
  • "Most people do not have a clue what they're entitled to get until they encounter a problem in their community."
    — Miranda Spivack (06:32)
• On Trade Secret Abuse:
  • "The problem is that governments really are not in a position...to decide what's a trade secret and what isn't...they basically defer to the private company."
    — Miranda Spivack (11:48)
• On Grassroots Power:
  • "If you come in with a petition of 50 people...they will listen to numbers. So there is strength in numbers."
    — Miranda Spivack (32:34)
• On Supreme Court & Access:
  • "There are about 15 states that will not give out public information to anybody who's not a citizen of that state. Thank you, Supreme Court."
    — Miranda Spivack (36:39)
• On Hope for the Future:
  • "I think they are starting to understand that where they can make a difference right now is at the state and local level and they're starting to step up."
    — Miranda Spivack (41:24)

Actionable Takeaways & "Civic Spark"

Segment: 38:18 – 39:47

• Start Simple:
  • Look up the agendas of your local city council and school board.
  • Attend public meetings and use the public comment period to ask questions or express concerns.
    • "If you see something there that concerns you, show up...Look at the agendas. And if like the Uniontown Alabama Water board, they're not posting the agendas...check your state law, because most states require advance agendas to be posted."
      — Miranda Spivack (38:47)
  • Learn local and state government processes so you can engage effectively.
• Build Coalitions:
  • Find neighbors and local groups facing similar issues; collective action gets attention.
• Leverage Resources:
  • Use social media for research and organizing (e.g., Facebook groups, neighborhood listservs).
  • Seek free legal advice; many state bars encourage pro bono work.
• Persist:
  • Effective activism requires patience and a willingness to keep pushing for change, often over years.

Memorable Moments & Timestamps

• What is Transparency? (03:07)
• Public Rights & Obstacles (05:21 – 07:46)
• Secrecy Justifications (08:22 – 10:29)
• Trade Secret Abuse (10:45 – 14:12)
• Uniontown, AL Case Study & Environmental Justice (19:21 – 24:41)
• Algorithmic Opaqueness in Criminal Justice (25:47 – 29:39)
• Accidental Activists – Ingredients of Success (30:29 – 36:07)
• Supreme Court and Secrecy (36:22 – 38:18)
• Civic Spark – Practical Steps (38:47 – 39:47)
• Why Spivack Is Hopeful (40:18 – 41:50)

Tone and Closing Thoughts

Both host and guest maintain an accessible, conversational tone—with an undercurrent of urgency and optimism. While the episode is frank about the challenges posed by legal, bureaucratic, and economic barriers to transparency, it consistently reinforces listeners’ agency and potential for impact, especially at the local level.

Final Quote

"Transparency is just the first step...democracy is not a spectator sport. Tomorrow starts right now."
— Mila Atmos (Intro & throughout)

Recommended for:
Listeners interested in government accountability, transparency, environmental justice, civic action, and the practical skills needed to challenge secrecy at the local level.