Future Hindsight Podcast Summary

Episode Title: How Underdogs Build Power: Stephanie Luce
Air Date: October 23, 2025
Host: Mila Atmos
Guest: Stephanie Luce, Professor of Labor Studies at CUNY and co-author of Practical Radical: Seven Strategies to Change the World

Overview

This episode addresses a central challenge: How do underdogs—people and groups with less political and economic power—make lasting change in a system stacked against them? Host Mila Atmos speaks with Stephanie Luce, an expert on labor, social movements, and strategy, about her new book that provides a roadmap for activists. Together, they explore history, present-day obstacles, and seven core strategies underdogs can use to build real power and transform society—emphasizing that vision, strategy, and coalition-building are key, even (or especially) in crisis.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Current Conjuncture: Crisis and Opportunity

• Economic and Political Crisis
  Luce highlights that since the nation's founding, the system has favored big business and political elites, often at the expense of ordinary people and marginalized groups ([03:42]).
  • “We write in the book about being under racial capitalism in this country since its founding. A system that really is stacked against normal, everyday people." ([03:54], Luce)
• Backlash and Authoritarianism
  The rise of authoritarianism and “racial neoliberalism” represents a backlash against progressive wins, deepening social, environmental, and economic crises ([04:03–05:07]).
• The Left’s Failures and Retreat
  The left has been losing ground in the ‘big picture’ due to a lack of long-term vision and strategy, confining itself to short-term, defensive battles ([05:30]).
  • “The left failed to understand that they had to engage at that level of a 30 year battle over the rules of the game.” ([06:37], Luce)

Vision: The Missing Muscle

• Absence of a Grand Vision
  Historically, the left had clear, ambitious visions but retreated due to repression (e.g., McCarthy era) and fear of internal division ([07:13]).
  • “We got out of the practice of really deliberative democracy, engaging with one another.” ([07:46], Luce)
• What Is the Left’s Slogan?
  The succinct counter to the right’s "white Christian nationalism":
  • “I think that the term of multiracial democracy would be the counter to that.” ([09:05], Luce)

Theory of Power and Strategy

• Power Defined by Six Sources
  Luce outlines distinct forms: solidarity, disruption, ideology, economy, politics, and military ([09:57]).
  • “The main power that people have is solidarity power... the power in our numbers.” ([10:37], Luce)

The Seven Strategies for Underdog Power

1. Base Building ([12:03])

• Definition: Building organizations (unions, community groups, etc.) to amass collective power.
• Example: St. Paul Federation of Educators, where teachers organized to transform underfunded schools ([12:56]).
  • "When we bring people together and hash out a vision, it's not teachers versus students, it's together." ([13:45], Luce)

2. Disruptive Movements ([14:27])

• Distinction: Protests create awareness, but disruption shuts down systems and forces negotiation.
• Examples:
  • 1930s sit-down strikes in factories ([14:43])
  • Montgomery Bus Boycott, which lasted over a year and hit businesses where it hurt ([15:16])
  • “It was really hurting business owners, which is another important part of this strategy…peeling off a component of a coalition.” ([15:34], Luce)

3. Narrative Shift ([16:14])

• Power of Narrative: Changing people’s understanding of issues is its own form of power.
• Example: Occupy Wall Street reframed the conversation about the 2008 crisis, shifting blame from individuals to Wall Street and sparking new movements ([16:14]).
  • “Occupy Wall Street helped shift [the narrative] and understand, hey, this is about corporate power and Wall street are behind the crisis…” ([16:41], Luce)

4. Inside-Outside Campaigns ([17:31])

• Definition: Movements work both inside institutions (with allied officials) and outside (grassroots pressure).
• Example: Fight for $15 combined labor actions with legislative lobbying to win higher minimum wages ([17:31]).
  • “That's both the inside and the outside working together to make big change.” ([18:17], Luce)

5. Electoral Change ([19:20])

• Strategic Engagement: True victory means building year-round organizations, not just endorsing candidates at election time.
• Example: Working Families Party focuses on recruiting and training candidates, co-governing, and serving as a community hub ([20:17–21:08]).
  • “The party actually took on a life that was much bigger than a ballot line or just a candidate... it was actually a cultural institution.” ([21:08], Luce)

6. Momentum and Distributed Actions ([24:41])

• Model: Combine slow base-building with rapid escalation using a "distributed organizing" approach.
• Example: Marriage equality movement shifted social consensus through cultural and targeted political organizing ([26:01–26:38]).
  • "Sometimes from the outside, we think, oh, these things are just happening naturally...But in fact, it took a lot of organizing..." ([26:38], Luce)

7. Collective Care ([27:22])

• Emergent Strategy: Ensuring survival, building trust, and transforming support networks into political agency.
• Examples: Gay Men's Health Crisis (AIDS epidemic); strike support systems providing childcare, food, and legal aid ([27:22]).
  • “Collective care lets you know someone has your back and you're much more willing and able to take those risks to become part of a political movement.” ([28:57], Luce)

Building Alliances & Navigating Division

Coalition-Building in Crisis ([30:39])

• Exploiting Fissures in Overdog Alliances:
  • Business interests sometimes align with progressive goals (e.g., immigration)
  • Environmental sectors with divided business interests
  • Faith-based organizations' pro-community values
• Wedge Strategies: Target unstable alliances (e.g., “billionaires + working class whites”) for disruption ([31:35]).
• Popular Front vs. United Front:
  • "Popular Front" includes everyone against authoritarianism; "United Front" is more focused on working class alignment ([33:00]).

The Role of Leadership and Vision

• Leadership is Essential:
  • Need for transparent, accountable leaders even in horizontal movements
  • “If we don't name the leadership, we have...the tyranny of structurelessness…” ([35:16], Luce)
• Bold Vision Needed:
  • “We have to do a better job of saying, hey, we have a new world to build.” ([39:22], Luce)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Powerlessness and Possibility:
  • "Everyone in every case can access some form of power… solidarity, non-cooperation, or the power of care." ([29:12], Luce)
• On the Need for Vision:
  • "Vision without assessment of power is kind of like science fiction, right? It's a nice story, but we need to be realistic about where we're starting." ([09:57], Luce)
• On Hope:
  • "There’s just a lot of activity and engagement. They really care and they're speaking cross divisions...because they do share this vision of what's happening right now is wrong. And that's what's giving me hope." ([38:18], Luce)

Civic Spark: Actionable Next Steps ([37:02])

• Educate and Train:
  • Find organizations offering training on non-cooperation, mutual aid, or medic skills for protest and community action.
  • “There’s a moment where everyone can learn a new skill right now.” ([37:50], Luce)

Timestamps of Key Segments

• Introduction & Framing: 00:04–02:04
• State of the World—The Conjuncture: 03:42–05:07
• Failures of the Left: 05:07–06:45
• Vision & Slogan for the Left: 06:45–09:05
• Theory of Power: 09:26–11:26
• Seven Strategies Overview: 12:03–29:12
• Building Alliances & Wedges: 29:37–34:39
• Leadership & Vision: 34:39–36:44
• Civic Spark & Hope: 37:02–39:54

Tone and Style

The conversation is urgent but hopeful, emphasizing practicality, realism, and mutual aid. Luce’s remarks are clear, educational, and grounded in experience, while Atmos presses for clarity, actionable ideas, and relatable examples.

This episode is an action-oriented guide for anyone—novice or veteran—to start building practical, scalable power for justice, democracy, and equity, especially when the odds seem overwhelmingly stacked against you.
“We have a new world to build. Come be a part of building this new world that’s bigger than your ballot box.” ([39:23], Luce)