Reclaim Democracy’s Power: Stacey Abrams

Summary

Episode Summary: Future Hindsight – "Reclaim Democracy’s Power" with Stacey Abrams

In the May 22, 2025 episode of Future Hindsight, host Mila Atmos engages in a profound conversation with Stacey Abrams, a prominent author, serial entrepreneur, nonprofit CEO, and political leader. Abrams, renowned for her pivotal role in transforming Georgia politics and her relentless advocacy for voting rights, delves into the current state of American democracy, the challenges faced by the Democratic Party, and actionable steps for citizens to foster meaningful civic engagement.

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1. Reclaiming Democracy as a Tool for Delivery

Stacey Abrams emphasizes the necessity of redefining democracy not merely as a theoretical framework but as a practical tool for delivering tangible results to citizens. She underscores the importance of aligning democratic engagement with shared values such as fairness, dignity, and freedom.

[02:37] Stacey Abrams: "We have to reclaim the narrative of democracy as a tool for delivery, not just a tool for defense."

Abrams draws from her personal experiences growing up in Mississippi, highlighting how her parents focused on delivering essential services to their community, filling gaps left by elected officials. This, she argues, showcases the practical impact of democracy when it is genuinely responsive to people's needs.

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2. Analyzing the 2024 Election: Turnout and Messaging Failures

Addressing the 2024 election, Abrams points out the stark voter turnout numbers—with approximately 90 million eligible voters abstaining—which played a crucial role in the election's outcome. She critiques the liberal messaging strategies, suggesting that the Democratic Party failed to clearly communicate how their policies directly benefit voters' daily lives.

[04:10] Stacey Abrams: "People don't care about your politics. They care about their lives."

Abrams argues that the focus should shift from defending democratic ideals to demonstrating how democracy can effectively address everyday issues like economic stability, healthcare, and education. She asserts that by doing so, the Democratic Party can build trust and re-engage disillusioned voters.

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3. Structural Reforms Within the Democratic Party

Mila Atmos prompts Abrams to discuss necessary structural reforms within the Democratic Party, especially in light of the Republican Party's strategic transformations over the decades. Abrams advocates for a balance between ideological diversity and core values.

[13:39] Stacey Abrams: "We cannot be a party of the people if we expect every person to meet the litmus test of purity from our standards."

Abrams stresses the importance of prioritizing values over ideological purity, suggesting that the party must embrace a broader spectrum of beliefs while maintaining commitment to diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI). She warns against abandoning foundational values in pursuit of short-term electoral victories, emphasizing long-term engagement and infrastructure building to serve the populace effectively.

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4. Combating Voter Suppression: The Georgia Case

A significant portion of the episode delves into the persistent issue of voter suppression in Georgia. Mila discusses the recent efforts by the far-right group True the Vote to disenfranchise voters through mass challenges based on unreliable data.

[26:38] Stacey Abrams: "Georgia has long been a testing ground for far-right voter suppression activities."

Abrams explains how these tactics aim to undermine trust in the electoral system, disproportionately targeting Black, Brown, and first-time voters—the very groups that have historically been pivotal in securing Democratic victories in the state. She underscores the legal battles faced by organizations like Fair Fight, which fight against such suppression efforts but encounter systemic challenges within the judiciary.

[31:37] Stacey Abrams: "When you lose their trust, it is contagious. Communities start to distrust."

Abrams advocates for persistent resistance against voter intimidation, drawing parallels to the civil rights movement and the importance of collective action in safeguarding democratic participation.

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5. Lessons from Georgia: Persistence and Community Engagement

Reflecting on her extensive experience in Georgia politics, Abrams shares insights into the long-term strategies required to combat entrenched voter suppression and to mobilize communities effectively.

[31:37] Stacey Abrams: "When I run for office, there is the very real risk that you won't win. And one of my greatest lessons is that while victory would have been fantastic, what I gained from the engagement has transformed how I understand the work that I'm called to do."

Abrams emphasizes that political engagement is not solely about winning elections but about transforming communities and ensuring that democracy serves all its citizens. Her approach involves grassroots mobilization, policy advocacy, and educational initiatives to empower voters and foster a resilient democratic infrastructure.

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6. Civic Spark: Turning Insights into Action

In her signature segment, Mila asks Abrams to share a Civic Spark—a small, actionable step listeners can take to ignite collective change. Abrams encourages individuals to commit to a single issue they are passionate about and to engage in consistent, weekly actions that support that cause.

[33:53] Stacey Abrams: "Pick one thing, the one thing you refuse to give in on."

This advice underscores the power of persistent, focused activism, suggesting that individual actions, when combined, can lead to substantial societal transformation.

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7. Hope for the Future: Empowering the Next Generation

Ending on an optimistic note, Abrams shares her hope for the future, inspired by her nieces and nephews—the first generation born after significant voting rights losses in the U.S. She takes solace in their awareness and determination to fight for their rights and shape a better tomorrow.

[35:37] Stacey Abrams: "What makes me hopeful is that they know they're not done fighting and that they believe that their vision for tomorrow is their given right and they're gonna fight to make it."

Abrams believes that this generational shift will continue to bolster democratic engagement and ensure that the fight for equitable representation and participation remains vigorous and uncompromised.

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Conclusion

Stacey Abrams' conversation on Future Hindsight provides a comprehensive examination of the current challenges facing American democracy and the Democratic Party. Her insights highlight the importance of practical democratic engagement, structural party reforms, and resilient community activism. By advocating for a values-driven approach and emphasizing the power of consistent individual actions, Abrams offers a roadmap for citizens eager to reclaim and strengthen democracy in their communities.

Notable Quotes:

• Stacey Abrams [02:37]: "We have to reclaim the narrative of democracy as a tool for delivery, not just a tool for defense."
• Stacey Abrams [04:10]: "People don't care about your politics. They care about their lives."
• Stacey Abrams [13:39]: "We cannot be a party of the people if we expect every person to meet the litmus test of purity from our standards."
• Stacey Abrams [26:38]: "Georgia has long been a testing ground for far-right voter suppression activities."
• Stacey Abrams [33:53]: "Pick one thing, the one thing you refuse to give in on."
• Stacey Abrams [35:37]: "What makes me hopeful is that they know they're not done fighting and that they believe that their vision for tomorrow is their given right and they're gonna fight to make it."

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This episode of Future Hindsight serves as a vital resource for understanding the intricate dynamics of American politics and democracy. It empowers listeners with knowledge and actionable steps to participate actively in shaping a more equitable and responsive government.

Transcript

[Mila Atmos]

Thanks to Shopify for supporting Future Hindsight. Shopify is a platform designed for anyone to sell anywhere, giving entrepreneurs like myself the resources once reserved for big business. Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com hopeful all lowercase. And if you haven't yet, sign up for the Future Hindsight newsletter. Think of it as your weekly pocket guide to civic action. Go to futurehinsight.com to sign up and we'll come to you every week with everything you need to build your civic action toolkit. Welcome to Future Hindsight, a podcast on a mission to spark civic action. I'm your host, Mila Atmos. I'm a global citizen based in New York City, and I'm deeply curious about the way our society works. So each week I bring you conversations to cut through the confusion around today's most important civic issues and and share clear, actionable ways for us to build a brighter future together. After all, democracy is not a spectator sport. Tomorrow starts right now. We love to have citizen changemakers on the show to inspire the audience. And one of the most impactful citizen changemakers in this time is is Stacey Abrams. She's a host of a new podcast, Assembly Required, and also an author, serial entrepreneur, nonprofit CEO and political leader. After 11 years in the Georgia House of Representatives, seven of which as minority leader, she was the 2018 Democratic nominee for governor of Georgia, where she won more votes than any other Democrat in the state's history. Welcome, Stacey.

[Stacey Abrams]

Thank you.

[Mila Atmos]

Thank you for joining us.

[Stacey Abrams]

Thanks for having me.

[Mila Atmos]

So I don't think we need to warm up at all for this conversation.

[Stacey Abrams]

I think we're good.

[Mila Atmos]

We're good, we're good. No need to set the table. So let me just ask you, how do we meet the moment? Because on the podcast recently, we just had a conversation about the history of citizenship schools and how the fight to vote continues. We spoke to Steve Phillips, who argued that the Civil War never ended. And in the intro of your own book, Our Time is Now, you, you share your grandmother's story about being afraid to vote in 1968 and your sister's friend who voted for you for governor but thought it was totally rigged and pointless. So in this arc, where are we and how do we meet the moment?

[Stacey Abrams]

We have to reclaim the narrative of democracy as a tool for delivery, not just a tool for defense. We're asking people to be engaged in a country that doesn't always feel like it wants them and that sometimes can feel so distanced from lived reality that democracy sounds like a fairy Tale. And so if we want people to defend democracy, democracy has to deliver. And that means we have to lead with our shared values. We have to talk about fairness, about dignity, we have to talk about freedom. But we have to link that to community, and we have to show how these values help us deliver. For me, my work in Georgia, my work across the country has been grounded in my growing up in Mississippi, watching my parents do the work that should have been done by elected leaders for communities that were left out and left behind. My parents were not political people. They voted, but they didn't spend all of their time volunteering on campaigns. They spent their time delivering the services that people needed because the people who should have done the work weren't showing up. And I think that's the space where democracy can be reclaimed and strengthened when people know that democracy is for delivery of services, not just for defense of a theory of the case that they've never actually experienced.

[Mila Atmos]

Yeah, I'm curious about this because, you know, last year in 2024, we were told again that this was the most important election of our lifetime. And so I'm wondering what are the most salient issues for Americans today? And I feel like it's not democracy, you know, like, because what you are explaining just now, I don't think that people put those things together. We know, of course, that a large part of what Americans care about is the economy, the price of eggs. But why do you think that the messaging fail last year about democracy, you know, about the 2024 election being the most important election of our lifetime. And really what I'm trying to get at here is that, quote, liberal messaging didn't work. But also, it feels to me that the deliverables were not somehow made concrete in our lives. There was the inflation Reduction act, there was a build back better act. But I think people didn't understand what that did for them. And really, I also think that if we had had higher turnout last year, the election would have been a different outcome. So as we look forward, how do you think about what really matters and connecting that to democracy?

[Stacey Abrams]

So I want to start by level setting. 2024. 77 million people voted for the current administration. 75 million people voted for Vice President Harris. 90 million people did not vote. And that goes to your point about turnout. We don't know if all 90 million people had they turned out what the outcome would have been. But I don't want us to overlearn the lesson of 24 as a reason to jettison what 75 million people wanted so you had a 2 million person spread. And letting 2 million people redefine values and intention is problematic. That is not to say that Democrats don't have the responsibility to evaluate what they did, how they did it, and what should happen next. But I think what we should learn from it is not about the 75 versus 77. It's the 90. And I think that's the crux of the issue. Democracy is a tool. It is the way society engages citizenry in the decisions about how we're all going to live together under the social contract. There are lots of different ways to go about it. Democracy is one of them. You have autocracy, which is where we seem to be headed if we don't reclaim democracy. You have other processes that are somewhere in between. You have monarchy. But fundamentally, we have to remember that democracy is a tool. So what we were supposed to be talking about is how was that tool servicing the needs of the people? And the problem was the tool itself became the metric. So instead of talking about what the tool was supposed to help us get, we spend a lot of time just talking about the tool in and of itself. And as this idealized idea and part of the work that I've done in Georgia has been grounded in recognizing that most people don't care about the idealized. They care about the reality. I like to say people don't care about your politics. They care about their lives. And that's why the conversation of the price of eggs and the economy had the greatest salience. But those weren't the only issues. And often when we're talking about the economy, it is incredibly superficial to ignore all of the underlying issues that determine your ability to participate in the economy. The economy does matter. The price of eggs does matter. But are you being pushed out because you're deciding between eggs and medicine? Because then you're having a separate conversation. Is it that you're concerned about the economy because you can't get a job because you are a returning citizen and you're pretty much pushed out of the economic situation? Is it because you are a mother who cannot find childcare? All of those are economic issues that have underpinnings that we have to talk about. And the way we talk about it is through democracy. We come together, we have conversations, we hire people. And so when I think about all of that, I worry about the 90 million who think that none of those conversations include them. That's why they didn't vote. And so instead of rehashing which term of art we should have used and which ad slogan might have been more resonant. I want to talk about what do we need to deliver in this moment and in the next moment in order to convince those 90 million people that this country can work for them, too? As a person who is aligned with the Democratic Party, I argue aggressively that we cannot compromise on our values. We cannot abandon our values trying to pick up new votes. Instead, we have to fight for our values and show how our values have lived in their experiences and how it could be even better because that's how we build trust and that's how you win over voters. We've been talking about this on assembly required quite often. We had Senator Cory Booker on, we had Rachel Maddow on. But part of my intention is for us to connect the dots between democracy as a tool for delivery versus this notion that if we just defend the idea of democracy, we've done our work.

[Mila Atmos]

Yeah, well, you just talked about fighting for our values, and there's a lot of hand wringing right now about how to fight back against the Trump administration and, and what probably you and I can agree are not our values. And there are so many things to fight about. Right. Like whether that's unlawful detentions and deportations, dismantling federal agencies, or outright corruption. We're thinking about the big plane from Qatar. So beyond a long term strategy of reform of the party, let's say, how would you like our electeds to meet this moment and like, really be vocal about what our values are? Because I think that's sometimes not obvious and how to stand up for that, to stand up for those values.

[Stacey Abrams]

Much of my work has centered around state and local government. I entered government as an adult as deputy city attorney for Atlanta. And in that role, I was part of tackling issues from how water services got delivered to housing cost. I worked on economic development, but I also worked on how we helped to address the issue of homeless veterans. So I had a very broad ambit that fit within my work. After that, I ran for the state legislature. And so my first answer is that the solution to our local problems will not always come from Washington, D.C. we are putting a lot of attention, a lot of pressure on and a lot of expectation on Congress, as we should. But let's understand that we have a complicit Republican majority that is suborning tyranny and championing the rise of autocracy. And we have a fairly neutered judiciary that has not yet decided if it wants to be a defender of Americans or a defender of Republican Party. So D.C. is a place that we should put our attention and we cannot abandon it. We have to call our representatives. We have to demand that they speak up. But there are other layers of government where we can get more done. If you have a school board where you live, they are making choices about the next generation. Right now, we should be showing up at those school board meetings in Virginia just this week, they tried to dismantle dei, and they did so because they want to abandon our values. They want to tell children that they should not know their history. They want to suborn the idea that racism has some kind of native good. And therefore, if we have the value system that diversity, equity and inclusion are values we hold to be true, then we should be talking about it at the local level. At the state level, I believe and understand why we put so much onus on the federal government. But there is so much work and opportunity at the state, state and local level. And I can prove it. Because the reason we have the Republican Party we have today was that 50, 60 years ago, they started infiltrating at the state and local level, changing the values that their party used to believe in to arrive at the narrative they have today. We can do the same. But we don't have 50 years to wait. We've got to do the work right now.

[Mila Atmos]

Right? Right. Well, speaking of the Republican Party, you know, there are a lot of questions about how the Democratic Party should reform itself. Right. And if you think about the republic, like you mentioned, they have radically transformed themselves. And so if the Democratic Party were to transform itself, and I'm not sure that it is going to in this moment, it doesn't look very promising. I want to say May 2025, it doesn't look terribly promising. Maybe in a few months that will change. But like, in your mind, what do you believe are the most urgent structural reforms within the Democratic Party that we need or that it needs?

[Stacey Abrams]

As someone who has run for office in the South, I want to be really clear that what constitutes being liberal or progressive or conservative in the south looks very different in the Midwest, is completely divorced from what happens on the west coast, which has absolutely no mirrored image on the East Coast. And so as a nation of 330 million people, we have to recognize that there is a spectrum of ideological purity that exists. And the reality is we cannot be a party of the people if we expect every person to meet the litmus test of purity from our standards. So that's the first place. And if you accept that ideological purity isn't your metric, then what is. And I think that's where values come back into the conversation, and it's why I keep using those terms. I've been doing a lot of work recently on diversity, equity and inclusion dei and part of the way you reform is to understand your foundations. We cannot compromise on our values. We have to fight for them. If we are willing to fight for them, if we're willing to be vocal about it, if we are willing to fight, to challenge those who would try to erode those values, that's one of the ways we get people to come back, or those who are with us to stand up and speak up. But they will not if they don't think that we mean it. And so what I hope doesn't happen in this process is that we try to reform ourselves by jettisoning who we are and what we believe. Democrats have always been the party of the people, and that means all of the people. And sometimes it means telling members of our party the answer is no, that what you want, which will lead to a fast win, is going to harm so many, we cannot countenance it. And that's why I go back to fairness, to dignity, to freedom, to community. But it's why diversity, equity, and inclusion are under assault, because the Republicans know what we don't seem to believe, which is that it's working. That as a nation that has situated DEI as our guiding force, we have become an extraordinary nation. And that's terrifying to those who want uniformity, who want inequity, and who want exclusion. And so part of our responsibility as we proceed towards reform is to not reform to win elections. It's to reform to win voters. So those are two different dynamics. And I'll close with this. It took me 10 years in my role as minority leader in the state of Georgia to help evolve our party. And it was a joint effort. And I don't want to take any credit away from anyone else. But the work that I did starting in Georgia when I became minority leader in 2010, November of 2010, after the worst shellacking our party had seen in 130 years, that work took a long time. If we think we can solve the challenges facing our nation, facing our people in a single election cycle, then we are going to compromise our values. But if we think that this is long term where we need to be to build an infrastructure and to build a delivery system that actually serves the people, then we're going to have patience of engagement, not patience with the destruction, but we can be patient with how long it takes people to agree with us, but we cannot get there if we put victory over values.

[Mila Atmos]

Well, I think that was really well put that it's not that you want to win elections, but that you want to win voters. We'll be back with Stacy in just a moment, so stay close. We know you wouldn't want to miss this episode. Civic Spark One small step we can all take to be more empowered and ignite collective change. But first, in the early days of future hindsight, it seemed like I was doing all the heavy lifting myself. Whether that was finding guests, recording the episodes, and editing everything, it felt like I had to figure it all out on my own. That's an overwhelming feeling when every day seems to introduce another question that needs an answer. Anytime you're starting something new, it's like your to do list just grows and grows with new tasks every day. And to tell you the truth, that list can pretty easily start to take over your life. So finding the right tool that not only helps you out but but simplifies everything can be such a game changer for millions of businesses out there. That tool is Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e commerce in the United States. 10% from household names like Heinz and Rare Beauty to brands that are just getting started. So what do you need to get started? Maybe your own design studio? Well, with hundreds of ready to use templates, Shopify helps you build a beautiful online store to match your brand's style. And if you want to accelerate your content creation, Shopify is packed with helpful AI tools that write product descriptions, page headlines, and even enhance your product photography. With all these great tools at your fingertips, you can get the word out as if you have an entire marketing team behind you in just a few minutes. You can easily create email and social media campaigns wherever your customers are scrolling or strolling. It's so great to know that Shopify is your commerce expert with world class expertise in everything from managing inventory to international shipping to processing returns and beyond. If you're ready to sell, you're ready for Shopify. You know what I love about Shopify is that no matter how big you want to grow, Shopify gives you everything you need to take control and take your business to the next level. Turn your big business idea into Cha Ching With Shopify on your side, sign up for your $1 per month trial period and start selling today at shopify.com hopeful go to shopify.com hopeful shopify.com hopeful we also want to share about a podcast called Fiasco. In the fall of 1986, Ronald Reagan found himself in the center of a massive scandal that looked like it might bring down his presidency. It became known as the Iran Contra Affair. On the podcast Fiasco Iran Contra, hosted by Leon Nayfak, you'll hear all the unbelievable details of a scandal that captivated the nation nearly 40 years ago, but which few of us still remember today. To hear the whole story, listen to Fiasco Iran Contra wherever you get your podcasts. And now let's return to my conversation with Stacey Abrams. You, of course, have been a pioneer in voter engagement and mobilization, like you just said, and you changed Georgia politics with your organization, the New Georgia Project. Notably, of course, there are now two Democratic senators representing the state of Georgia. In fact, I will tell you here that Steve Phillips told us all, all about the long game that you've been playing and getting people to support the Democratic Party and Democratic candidates in the state of Georgia, and that Texas should take note. But I have a question. We are talking about parties a lot here. I have a question about, like, are we missing the mark? Should we be focusing on building a grassroots movement instead, something that's a little bit more like the civil rights movement to get people to really understand the power of their vote, for example? And if so, how do you think about that?

[Stacey Abrams]

I absolutely agree that it's gotta be both. And those we oppose in ideology, those we oppose in practice and in policy, they don't just pick one tool and that's all they go with. So I've used tool to talk about democracy, but let's talk about tactics then. They don't pick one tactic. The civil rights movement wasn't just about bus boycotts. It was about religious engagement. It had components that were in the corporate space. It fought about transportation policy. The civil rights movement understood that there had to be multiple tactics to meet the overarching strategy of engagement and transformation. Some of it was political. You had candidates who ran for office under the banner of political parties. So they had the political capacity to to push forward the policies that could only come from the state or federal government. But you also had grassroots movements that engaged voters to make sure they got elected. One of my favorite speeches by MLK, by Dr. King, was his Mother's Day speech where he said that we had to march on ballots because he understood that as much as the march on Washington was about gaining the conscience of America, marching on ballots was about gaining the power of America. And so I've always tried to approach the work that I do from multiple vantage points. You can't just use one thing, one tactic, and hope that it works. And so in this moment, this idea that in order for a party to rise, you have to crush certain aspects of grassroots movements is absolutely inherently wrong. And the corollary is that the rise of grassroots movements have to have a political apparatus that can help turn ideation into policy. Because if it doesn't become law, then the laws that hold are the laws that govern. And those laws that govern may not be to our benefit.

[Mila Atmos]

Right, right. Well, as Maurice Mitchell told us from the Working Families Party that, you know, the thing to do is to get governing power because otherwise it's all pointless. So as I mentioned earlier. Yes, tell me.

[Stacey Abrams]

I'm gonna push back. I don't think it's all pointless. I love Maurice, but it's not pointless, but it's not as effective. And part of what happens in our narrative about politics is that we divorce politics from people. And I think what Maurice is doing is extraordinarily important and absolutely political power is the most effective tool to change the law and therefore to change governance. But we can't ignore that there are very real gaps in the delivery of service that require people to be in the trenches doing the work every day, irrespective of who gets elected. It is easier to do that work if good people get elected. But I don't ever want us to think that if we win enough elections, we don't have to do the rest of it. Democracy doesn't work like that. Democracy isn't a panacea. It's again, it's a way to get things done. But it is not the solution in and of itself.

[Mila Atmos]

For sure. Totally agree. So I mentioned earlier that the fight to vote continues. And right before Georgia's 2021 U.S. senate runoff election, a far right anti voting group called True the Vote tried to disenfranchise over 364,000 voters and facilitated over 250,000 voter challenges using a Georgia law that allows any resident to challenge the right to vote of an unlimited number of their neighbors. That's sounds totally crazy. So the challengers of course used the list of voters provided by True the Vote, which was created with outdated and unreliable data. And of course, no surprise, black, brown and first time voters were disproportionately targeted. They are, of course, the very communities whose record turnout flipped the Georgia election in the 2020 presidential election just weeks before. So Fair Fight, which is actually an organization that you launched, it fights voter suppression and protects voting Rights sued and argued that the Mass Challenge scheme was illegal voter intimidation under Section 11B of the Voting Rights Act. In 2024, a judge ruled against Fair Fight. That sounds wrong. But also at the same time acknowledged that True the Vote's approach was reckless, which is a big word, and that its data was unreliable. So this case is now headed to the appellate court. And since you're both a lawyer and a voting rights expert, and you, you are from Georgia, what do you make of this latest development and what would be the impact nationwide?

[Stacey Abrams]

Well, Mila, I appreciate you laying out the background. I want to dig in on a couple of pieces. So let's talk about the scope. First of all, yes, we're talking about 364,000 voters who were targeted initially by True the vote. And over 250,000 were formally challenged. The last election in Georgia, the presidential election in 24, was decided by about 75,000 votes. So you're talking about three times the number of voters would have been challenged and possibly taken off the rolls because of True the Vote. Number two, what the lower court said was that it did not believe that it had the ability to take action. So the ruling was very narrow. And that's why the 11th Circuit actually heard the case. And they are now considering the evidence that were brought forward. And this is important to note because it's being spun as though TTV won the case. They didn't. It was a narrow ruling. The judge said that their tactics utterly lacked reliability. And the reality is, irrespective of the outcome, the responsibility that Fair Fight has, the responsibility that Americans have, is that we should not allow voter intimidation in any form to go unchallenged. You referenced the civil rights movement earlier. If people recognized and knew the sheer number of cases that were brought to attack Jim Crow, to attack the architecture of racism in this nation that were lost, it would be overwhelming. And unfortunately, because we are losing history by the day because they're banning books and banning truth telling, we may never get the full story. But let's understand that losing a case does not mean the case didn't have merit. Sometimes the way you fight is simply showing up. It's why protest matters. Protest isn't about the person that you're fighting changing their mind in the moment. It's about them knowing that you refuse to let them operate with your silence as consent. And when it comes to True the Vote and their tactics, Georgia has long been a testing ground for voter suppression and voter intimidation. The current governor of Georgia was once noted as the person who purged more voters in a single day than any secretary of state in American history. So let's understand that Georgia, in the south, this region, my state, unfortunately, has been engaged in being a testing ground for far right voter suppression activities. And we have to fight back because the absence of a fight is complicity in the outcome. And they have been testing their anti voter playbook in Georgia. And we cannot let it happen. We cannot let it go unchallenged. And we have to remember why the challenge matters at the most core narrative you mentioned, my sister's friend that I talked about in our time is now, when a voter does their part, when a person takes the time to engage in the system and the system fails them and the system scares them and the system lies to them, we don't just lose their vote, we lose their trust. And when you lose their trust, it is contagious. Communities start to distrust. And the answer to distrust is often inaction. We have to make certain that the people of Georgia, that the people of the south, that the people of America, that the voters who have been challenged and have been confused by why they were called on and picked on, who've been discouraged, that they believe that they have the right to come back because voter suppression doesn't look like it did in the 1960s. It is not about physical violence anymore. It's about the administrative challenges. It's about death of democracy by a thousand cuts. And so our responsibility is to fight not only against true the vote, but to fight against the SAVE act, to fight against state level copycat laws, to fight against executive orders that seek to strip our ability to participate in elections. These things come together, they are not being done in isolation. And therefore we have to fight because fighting is what's right.

[Mila Atmos]

Indeed. So one of the things, because you are from the south and you are on the front lines where voter suppression has never abated, basically it was always going strong. Despite the Voting Rights act in 1965, there was always an effort to curtail voting. And from your race for governor and from your experience in the Georgia legislature, what did you learn from these years that may not be obvious from the outside?

[Stacey Abrams]

My parents were active participants in the civil rights movement as teenagers, and they raised me and my siblings with this very strong belief that, that you don't get to just watch, you have to act. When you run for office, there is the very real risk that you won't win. And one of my greatest lessons is that while victory would have been fantastic, what I gained from the engagement has transformed how I understand the work that I'm called to do. Too often we see politics as the end goal. We see the title as the end goal. Not getting the title doesn't exempt you from the work. And what my experiences have taught me is how important the work remains and how important it is that I remain in the work. Because if I believe in our democracy, that's good. But if I believe in our people, that's more important. That's foundational. My parents went from being a librarian and a shipyard worker to becoming pastors. I have studiously avoided ever being called to the ministry. But there is a ministry of government, a ministry of service that comes from having government work for everyone. When democracy can deliver, it is not just transformative in a person's life, it's transformative in their spirit. And that's the place where I am the most excited. It's why the work I've done has been so critical to me. And it's work that came into even sharper focus when I wasn't successful on one aspect because it highlighted how much there was to be done and how many ways I could be engaged in doing it.

[Mila Atmos]

Thank you. So every week on Future Hindsight, I ask my guest to share a civic spark. One small step we can all take to be more empowered and ignite collective change. So what's a good way to turn the insights that you've shared with us into action?

[Stacey Abrams]

Right now we are overwhelmed by the sheer volume of assault on our lives. And one of the most effective things that we can do comes from refusing to pre capitulate. We don't have to give in before they do it to us. And part of the intention is that if you do enough and it's hard enough and it's loud enough, people just give up. And they say, fine, I'm not going to fight because I'm not going to win. I need every person who is listening to this podcast to pick the one issue that they will not capitulate on and make that the thing you do at least once a week. If it is on the issue of child hunger, do one thing every week that shows that you are not going to let that stand. That despite the attacks on SNAP benefits on the congressional level, you're going to show up and make certain that the food bank near you is getting what they need, that you're donating to an organization that provides access to mitigate child hunger. But pick one thing, the one thing you refuse to give in on. If we all pick one thing that's a Lot of stuff. That's a lot of power. Power isn't about the big moments. It's about the consistency. It's not about whether your lights come on. It's about whether the, the electricity is running to your house every single day so that when you need the light, you can turn it on and we can be the lights in this moment.

[Mila Atmos]

Good advice. So, last question. Looking into the future, what makes you hopeful?

[Stacey Abrams]

My nieces and nephews. I have six nieces and nephews who range in age from 8 to 19. And they are smart and they are savvy, but they are the first generation to lose their rights in this country, to lose rights, have rights taken away since reconstruction. And what makes me hopeful is that they know they are entitled to more and they know that they are entitled to fight for more. I know I'm not done fighting, but what's so critical to me and makes me hopeful is, is that they know they're not done fighting and that they believe that their vision for tomorrow is their given right and they're gonna fight to make it. So.

[Mila Atmos]

Hear, hear. Hear, hear. I have a lot of hope. I have children who are definitely motivated to be in the fight. My younger one is a first time voter this year. It's very exciting.

[Stacey Abrams]

Congratulations.

[Mila Atmos]

Thank you. Thank you. And he's already, you know, scoping out what he's going to do this summer to canvas for mayoral candidates in New York City and also to vote. So, Stacy, thank you so much for joining me on Future Hindsight. It was really a pleasure to have you on the show.

[Stacey Abrams]

Thank you for having me. And I, of course, want to encourage everyone. If you want to learn more about any of these topics, listen to Future Hindsight. And once you're done, head on over to Assembly Required, where we talk about all of these things and more.

[Mila Atmos]

Thank you. Stacey Abrams is the host of Assembly Required, the author of multiple books, A Polymath and Ultimate Citizen Changemaker. Remember, civic action doesn't have to be complicated. It's about small steps that spark progress, like sharing this episode with a friend. Let's recap this week's Civic Spark and fire up our collective power. Don't give in to the falsehood that you can't do anything or make any significant change by yourself. It's true that it takes collective action, but it all starts with you. Find out what matters to you the most and make the decision to fight for it at least once a week, every week. Next week on Future Hindsight, we're joined by Jazz Brzack, Jaz is a union organizer and co founder of the Inside Organizer School, as well as the author of get on the Job and Standing up for a Better Workplace and a Better World. People are seeing the labor movement as one of the more hopeful places in society, and that makes me feel like this movement is going to keep growing. And I think that people are correctly seeing that mass organizing and organizing around class is the way to move people on all of these other issues and the way to join together all of these other issues. I think it's going to be a really rough time, but solidarity will help us get through. That's next time on Future Hindsight now. Be sure to follow us on your podcast app so you'll never miss an episode. We are your resource for all the tools you need to stay engaged. So follow Future Hindsight now and we'll come right to you every week. And if you want to support Future Hindsight and all the work we do as an independent product Pro Democracy Podcast, join the Civics Club on patreon. Head to patreon.com futurehinsight now to join. Thanks for tuning in and until next time, see clearly, act boldly and spark the change you want to see. This episode was produced by Zach Travis and me. This podcast is part of the Democracy Group.