Future Hindsight — “The Architects of Division: Katherine Stewart”

Host: Mila Atmos
Guest: Katherine Stewart
Date: March 27, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode of Future Hindsight explores the machinery behind American political division, with a special focus on how organized right-wing movements, powered by vast sums of money, propaganda, and Christian nationalism, are working to undermine democracy. Host Mila Atmos interviews journalist and author Katherine Stewart about her latest book, Money, Lies, and God: Inside the Movement to Destroy American Democracy. They discuss how America got here, who funds these anti-democratic efforts, why attacks on public education are key, and the gendered undercurrents of the movement, while also offering tangible steps for civic action.

Main Themes and Discussion Points

1. Rethinking Political Division & The Nature of the Threat

• The “Good Faith” Fallacy:
  Many believe that Americans’ political divisions are rooted mainly in economic and cultural worries, best addressed through “finding common ground.” But Stewart argues that organized forces have engineered division for political and financial gain, and that not all actors are seeking compromise.

  “The movement wants to burn down the house, not looking for a seat at the noisy table of American democracy.” (B quoting her book, 02:16)

• Nihilism as a Political Weapon:
  Stewart defines “reactionary nihilism” as the embrace of destruction and rejection of truth and shared values, with the right seeking to dismantle democracy in pursuit of a mythologized past.

  “I think of nihilists as people who deny that there’s any real value in the world as it truly exists and who deny that the truth itself has any value.” (B, 05:10)

  • This is powered by three forces: Money, Lies, and Christian Nationalism (“God”).

2. The Money: Who Are the Funders and What Do They Want?

• Key Deep-Pocket Funders:
  Not a religious monolith but united by anti-liberal goals. Notable families include the Corkerys, Barry Side, the Wilkes brothers, Tim Dunn, the DeVos-Prince family, and others.
  • They want to destroy regulations, dismantle government oversight, and protect or expand privileges and monopolies.
• Contradiction of Free Market Rhetoric:
  Stewart calls out the hypocrisy of espousing “free markets” while lobbying for government protection and subsidies.

  “A lot of people are going to get hurt if they succeed in destroying a public administration...and replace it with a privately controlled, corporate managed state.” (B, 09:28)

3. Lies: Propaganda, Disinformation, and Manipulation

• The Network of Lies:
  Coordinated campaigns spread panic—fear of the “deep state,” demonization of opponents, and outlandish conspiracy theories.
  • Case Example: The “Reawaken America” tour (organized by Trump allies) is a “pro-MAGA conspiracy fest” that bombards churchgoers with wild conspiracies meant to confuse and control (16:26).

  “When you go into these spaces, you hear every imaginable conspiracy... The thing that this is intended to do is confuse people, to really separate them from the facts, and that makes them easier to control.” (B, 17:01)

4. The Machine: Christian Nationalism as Mindset and Infrastructure

• Definition and Strategy:
  Christian nationalism is both an ideology (America should be a “Christian nation”) and an organizing machine—a web of pastor networks, think tanks, media, and political operatives deploying sophisticated turnout strategies.

  “Its strength is in this deep organizational infrastructure its leaders and funders have invested for five decades... you don’t need a majority to win an election. All you need to do is turn out a disproportionately mobilized minority.” (B, 29:31–31:28)

• Targeted Voter Mobilization:
  Unlike the liberal side’s focus on dialogue, the right zeroes in on base turnout, particularly in swing states and districts.

5. Attack on Public Education

• Why Public Education Is Targeted:
  The right resists pluralistic education and critical thought, preferring control through religious schools and voucher systems.
  • Notable quote from Jerry Falwell sets the agenda:

    “I hope to see the day when there are no more public schools. Churches will have taken them over and Christians will be running them.” (B, 23:07)

  • Spreading lies about “gender change factories” or “critical race theory” to build mistrust and justify purges of diverse or challenging curricula (25:59).

6. Gender Anxiety and Misogyny

• The Engine of Reactionary Authoritarianism:
  “Gender anxiety is... the rocket fuel of the movement.”
  • The right valorizes traditional gender hierarchies, blames feminism, and pushes “trad wife” culture, with women often collaborating for power within the system (34:04–36:47).

  “Throughout history... male supremacy has provided the backbone of authoritarian movements. Fascist parties always glorify the virtues of manliness... and despise the weakness of womanliness…” (B, 34:04)

7. Lessons on Movement-Building and Lessons for Democracy

• The Right’s Organizational Prowess:
  Decades of strategic, well-funded activism focused on courts, local offices, and long-term goals have paid off.
  • Stewart notes how the movement has become “much more radically anti-democratic,” no longer seeking accommodation, but dominance (39:57).

8. Solutions: The Separation of Church and State

• A Foundational Principle:
  Stewart calls for renewed defense of the Establishment Clause. She stresses the need for true neutrality, warning against taxpayer funding for religious schools and loss of pluralism.

  “Separation of church and state is one of our founding principles... The establishment clause is the first clause of the very first Amendment.” (B, 41:35)

• Scapegoating Progressive Christians:
  The movement brands “woke Christianity” as heresy, equating empathy and the social gospel with evil (44:37–44:50).

9. What’s at Stake if the Anti-Democratic Movement Wins?

• Toward Autocracy, Not Anarchy:
  The likely outcome is an authoritarian, religiously inflected regime, run by “sanctimonious hypocrites” and rife with suppression (45:19–46:34).

  “America’s never going to be the Christian nation that they say...it’s just gonna... end up with a country where you have one sector of... sanctimonious hypocrites imposing their supposedly biblical values on everyone else...” (B, 45:19)

10. Civic Action: What Can Individuals Do?

• Action Items / Civic Spark:
  • Get involved locally – school boards, town councils, community organizations.
  • Support democracy-building organizations.
  • Use your skills and time where they make the most impact.
  • Build a big tent—eschew “purity tests”—and focus on core pro-democracy values.

  “There are things we can only really do when we join together with others. Local action is really important...” (B, 46:50)

  • Remember, hope is in action; determination, not optimism, is key.

  “I think more Americans would prefer to live in a democracy... We need to really act like it, we need to mobilize like it, and we need to build a big enough tent to keep the the pro democracy majority together and mobilize accordingly.” (B, 48:38)

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “The movement wants to burn down the house, not looking for a seat at the noisy table of American democracy.” (B quoting her book, 02:16)
• “I think of nihilists as people who deny that there’s any real value in the world... the truth itself has any value.” (B, 05:10)
• “A lot of people are going to get hurt if they succeed in destroying a public administration... and replace it with a privately controlled, corporate managed state.” (B, 09:28)
• “When you go into these spaces, you hear every imaginable conspiracy... The thing that this is intended to do is confuse people, to really separate them from the facts, and that makes them easier to control.” (B, 17:01)
• “You don’t need a majority to win an election. All you need to do is turn out a disproportionately mobilized minority.” (B, 31:28)
• “Throughout history... male supremacy has provided the backbone of authoritarian movements.” (B, 34:04)
• “Separation of church and state is one of our founding principles... The establishment clause is the first clause of the very first Amendment.” (B, 41:35)
• “I think more Americans would prefer to live in a democracy... We need to really act like it, we need to mobilize like it, and we need to build a big enough tent...” (B, 48:38)

Key Segment Timestamps

| Timestamp | Topic | |------------|-------| | 02:16–04:11 | The "burn down the house" threat and why good-faith dialogue sometimes fails | | 05:10–07:34 | Defining "reactionary nihilism" | | 08:21–09:28 | Who is funding the anti-democratic movement and why | | 16:26–18:28 | Lies and conspiracies in practice (Reawaken America tour) | | 23:07–26:38 | Attacks on public education and their roots | | 29:31–31:28 | Christian nationalist machinery and electoral strategy | | 34:04–36:47 | The role of misogyny and gender in authoritarian movements | | 41:35–44:50 | The case for church-state separation & demonization of "woke Christianity" | | 46:50–48:25 | Action steps to resist right-wing authoritarianism | | 48:38–49:26 | Reasons for hope and the importance of majority mobilization |

Tone & Language

• The conversation is urgent, rigorous, and explanatory, grounded in Stewart’s investigative reporting and scholarship.
• Stewart and Atmos stress the need for moral courage and civic engagement, using clear, accessible language, and emphasize building coalitions over ideological purity.

Summary for New Listeners

This episode unpacks how moneyed interests, religious nationalism, and disinformation campaigns have converged to undermine American democracy. Katherine Stewart exposes how these groups operate—offering not “debate,” but organized opposition to pluralism—with sophisticated infrastructure directed at winning power for a hard-right, minority rule. She identifies the necessity of public education, the dangers of gendered backlash, and the urgency of rebuilding the separation of church and state. The episode concludes by urging listeners to act: Get involved locally, support democracy organizations, and focus on broad, coalition-based action.

If you care about democracy, this conversation will equip you to recognize the machinery behind division—and what you can do about it.