11: Gen Z's First Great Depression

Summary

FY Pod Episode 11: "Gen Z's First Great Depression"

Release Date: April 5, 2025

Hosts: Cameron Caskey & Tim Miller
Guest: Jack C.
Produced by: The Bulwark

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Introduction

In Episode 11 of FY Pod, hosts Cameron Caskey and Tim Miller delve into the pressing issue facing Gen Z: what they term "Gen Z's First Great Depression." Joined by guest Jack C., the discussion centers on the socio-economic challenges and political shifts influencing the youngest voters in America.

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Generational Challenges: Housing, COVID, and Economic Uncertainty

Tim Miller (01:00) sets the stage by outlining the unprecedented hardships Gen Z has faced:

"We grew up during an unprecedented housing crisis. Then, as we reached our teen years and began to come of age, we got the next great epidemic that killed a lot of people and locked us in our houses for a couple of years. And now that we're finally entering our young adulthood and starting up our lives, we've got a new Great Depression."
— Tim Miller [01:00]

The hosts discuss how these overlapping crises have fostered a sense of disillusionment and economic instability among Gen Z, making them more susceptible to shifting political allegiances.

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Trump's Influence and Gen Z's Political Shift

A significant portion of the episode examines why Gen Z has swung towards supporting Donald Trump in the 2024 elections, a surprising trend given Trump's historically polarized image.

Cameron Caskey (12:28) posits:

"Probably because they thought it was always broken whether or not the Trump tariffs and economic collapse more broadly."
— Cameron Caskey [12:28]

The discussion highlights that Gen Z perceives systemic failures irrespective of political leadership, leading to skepticism about traditional party platforms.

Tim Miller (15:54) adds:

"People our age don't know what tariffs are... Neither does the President."
— Tim Miller [15:54]

This reflects the disconnect between political rhetoric and the understanding of economic policies among young voters.

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Effective Communication: How Democrats Can Reach Gen Z

The hosts and Jack C. explore strategies for the Democratic Party to better engage with Gen Z. They emphasize the importance of authentic, relatable content over traditional, scripted messaging.

Jack C. (18:04) suggests:

"Engage with the things that you understand, and if you can speak to them, then you should."
— Jack C. [18:04]

Cameron Caskey (21:08) emphasizes authenticity:

"Find the places of the Internet where a lot of people are culturally and maybe apolitically... engage with authentic voices."
— Cameron Caskey [21:08]

The conversation underscores the need for Democrats to present genuine, policy-focused messages that resonate with Gen Z's values and concerns.

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Analyzing Republican Figures: J.D. Vance, Mike Johnson, and Elon Musk

The episode critically examines key Republican figures who influence Gen Z's political perspectives.

Tim Miller (55:34) remarks on J.D. Vance:

"J.D. Vance is a cardboard cuck loser who fucks couches. And we ought to talk about that."
— Tim Miller [55:34]

Cameron Caskey (58:11) discusses the impact of media portrayals:

"Annoyance on the Internet is way more powerful than anger... J.D. Vance is charmless."
— Cameron Caskey [58:11]

The hosts argue that unappealing portrayals of Republican figures like Vance and Elon Musk can further alienate Gen Z from conservative ideologies.

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Media and Content’s Role in Political Mobilization

The discussion delves into how media representations and viral content shape political opinions among young voters.

Tim Miller (38:12) emphasizes economic populism over culture wars:

"The Democratic Party should focus all of our effort on positioning ourselves as the party that is fighting off the next Great Depression."
— Tim Miller [38:12]

Cameron Caskey (41:14) critiques the superficial focus on issues like egg prices:

"First they came for the global economy and I said nothing because I was fucking focused on eggs."
— Cameron Caskey [41:14]

The hosts argue that substantive economic policies resonate more with Gen Z than isolated cultural issues.

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Proposed Solutions and Future Outlook

The episode concludes with actionable strategies for the Democratic Party to reconnect with Gen Z, emphasizing policy innovation and authentic communication.

Cameron Caskey (46:09) proposes:

"Here is a small thing that we're gonna do that's targeted because we care about you."
— Cameron Caskey [46:09]

Jack C. (53:04) suggests leveraging relatable cultural figures:

"We need more guys like Bill Burr who are no bullshit and speak for the people."
— Jack C. [53:04]

The hosts advocate for a balanced approach that combines economic reform with genuine cultural engagement to restore trust and support among Gen Z voters.

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Notable Quotes

• Tim Miller [01:10]:
  "I want to figure out why the fuck Tim came to New York and just didn't tell me, even though I am his podcast co-host."

• Jack C. [06:57]:
  "If you survived World War I, all your friends died, you'd watch them all die face down. In the muck."

• Tim Miller [15:54]:
  "How much is he being a useful idiot for Peter Thiel and the other people who are trying to take down the economy and seize control?"

• Cameron Caskey [46:09]:
  "Here is a small thing that we're gonna do that's targeted because we care about you."

• Jack C. [55:34]:
  "J.D. Vance is a cardboard cuck loser who fucks couches."

---

Conclusion

Episode 11 of FY Pod provides a comprehensive analysis of the socio-economic and political factors influencing Gen Z's voting behavior. By identifying the generational challenges and critiquing both Democratic and Republican strategies, hosts Cameron Caskey and Tim Miller, along with guest Jack C., offer insightful recommendations for bridging the political divide and addressing the unique needs of America's youngest voters.

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Transcript

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[Tim Miller]

Hey everybody, I'm Cameron Caskey. I'm Tim Miller and this is FY Pod, the Bulwark show where we're trying to figure out what the hell is going on with Gen Z. But I want to figure out why the fuck Tim came to New York and just didn't tell me, even though I am his podcast co host. And that's kind of like cheating.

[Jack C.]

You don't even know what I was doing about how much I was cheating on you, Cam. Yeah, and you just notice now? You didn't. You didn't see my deadline White House content yesterday. You weren't watching my in studio performance. I was a job. You didn't see that on social media.

[Tim Miller]

No, I was traveling for a while.

[Jack C.]

You're texting me all the time. You're posting all the time. Anytime I look at your Instagram, it has like 20 of those little dashes across. Like I can't even follow all of your stories. You're tagging me. So it seems like you've got a lot of free time.

[Tim Miller]

It seems like you're shifting blame and trying to distract from the fact that you literally. Whatever. Okay, so Tim decided not to hang out with me. He decided to go to some fucking white room that looks like an asylum and also wear an outfit that kind of blends into the background. Looks like shit. This week we are joined by Jack C. Jack C. Jack C. Do you.

[Cameron Caskey]

Want to give a run? Do you want to give an attempt at it? Even a little one? Yeah, we're going to keep it coccierella for my Italians out there.

[Tim Miller]

Jack is. I think you're from Florida, aren't you?

[Cameron Caskey]

I am.

[Tim Miller]

Wow. Florida man goes to Colombia.

[Jack C.]

Why are you a Lakers fan if you're from Florida?

[Cameron Caskey]

Because I'm a bronze sexual. Because I live and die by my goat and I'm constantly pouring honey on him. Which we can get into later.

[Tim Miller]

Okay, so for normal people, that means that he loves LeBron James.

[Cameron Caskey]

But as we should, our greatest American.

[Tim Miller]

So he's. He's from Florida, goes to Columbia, starts making liberal content. Let me tell you, Jack, you're on the right track, because that sounds a lot like this guy.

[Cameron Caskey]

Big shoes.

[Tim Miller]

Anyway, we're here to talk today with Jack, who makes great content with politicians and political figures that does really well online. People really seem to like your stuff. You're smart, you're young. How old are you?

[Cameron Caskey]

22.

[Tim Miller]

Oh, you kids. He's from this new generation of kids who are just so inspiring. And he looks like he's about to pass you the strongest strain of weed you've ever smoked, which is pretty badass.

[Cameron Caskey]

I just got my hair cut, too, so I guess. I guess I need to really fix.

[Tim Miller]

That's your hair when it's cute.

[Cameron Caskey]

Yeah, we. It used to be a little bit like we were getting mullet. We were getting close to it also. Why are you talking about me like you're. Like, you're. Tim's age. Like you're in your early 50s. What's that about you kids?

[Tim Miller]

I mean, look, Tim and I, our generations let you kids down.

[Jack C.]

But I have to tell you, the weed these days is way stronger. And I can't even do it. It's. It's just for Jack now it's too strong. Like, what is this?

[Tim Miller]

It isn't fun anymore. It used to be that you could smoke a lot of weed and get really high, but now it's like you take one hit and you're already fucking stoned and it's not fun anymore. We'll get into that. Our first topic today is my generation. And I suppose Jax as well. He's a bit younger. I'm 24. We grew up during an unprecedented housing crisis. Then, as we reached our teen years and began to come of age, we got the next great epidemic that killed a lot of people and locked us in our houses for a couple years. And now that we're finally entering our young adulthood and starting up our lives, we've got a new Great Depression. So it seems like on the national tragedy checklist, the next thing is a war. But fortunately, we here in the United States have all of our great allies in Europe to help back us up. Jack, how does somebody of your young age feel about coming of age during all of these terrible tragedies?

[Cameron Caskey]

Pretty fucking badly. And you mentioned Covid. There's certainly a feeling of just discontent with everything that's happened, you know, that we feel like, why did we have to care so much about COVID I know, y'all have talked a lot on the pod about the certain feeling with our generation of old people.

[Jack C.]

He's a listener.

[Cameron Caskey]

This doesn't. I know, right. Tuned in, locked in. I don't know if I'm going to be able to top the crazed maga. What was her name again? Natalie Natal. I just had to tune out of her broadly. But we kind of just feel like everything has been taken from us and no one cares about us. I know that's, you know, certainly the feeling of a lot of. A lot of younger guys, but that there's kind of nothing left. And what are we working for besides good old shareholder value? And so, yeah, as. As, like, as my friends are graduating right now, I thought that, you know, the first weeks of the Trump administration and even before, when people who were going to go work, really smart people were going to go work at the. The DOJ or at the FBI or they were going to be working at State, and they were getting these emails basically saying, oh, so you can go fuck yourself. I was like, okay, so my generation starting to feel it there with the Trump presidency. But now we get the recession that we pretty much all could have predicted if you were a consistent bulwark or Trump at large listener. And yet we don't feel good about it. So I don't really know what to say more than like, ouch. Is our perspective on every other generation. Why is a question that comes up a lot.

[Jack C.]

And, yeah, I want to get into why. I want to explore all that. All the bad stuff and how you guys are. But I do need to just pick on you a little bit first. It's not that. I mean, what year were you born in?

[Cameron Caskey]

2002, the best year to be born in.

[Jack C.]

Oh, God. So you're born after 9 11?

[Cameron Caskey]

Yes.

[Jack C.]

Wow. So you missed 9 11.

[Tim Miller]

Let me tell you, man, as somebody who was 11 months old during 9 11, I'm glad you didn't have to see that. I'm glad you didn't have to see that. It rocked me to my core.

[Jack C.]

You missed 9 11. So, okay, things aren't that bad. Okay. Imagine if you were born instead of 2002. You're born in 1902, okay? Born in 1902. You get 17 years old. What do you get then? Spanish fucking flu. Everybody dies. You have World War I, you get sent off to war.

[Cameron Caskey]

Like, this is not a distinction.

[Jack C.]

Stick with me, Jack. If you survived World War I, if you survived World War I, all your friends died, you'd watch them all die face down. In the muck. And then you grow up and you have a child, and then World War II happens, then the Nazis take over. And this is Joe Biden's generation. Wasn't he born in 1902? He's about 122, so. And this they, these people they sacrificed, did they go, oh, no, everything has been taken from me. No, they fucking built the American empire.

[Cameron Caskey]

So not if those people were necessarily told at the youngest age of they have to follow this system and thus will be rewarded with X. I don't want to go back and do revisionist 1902 history here, but there's a lot.

[Jack C.]

Of, should we go to 1802?

[Cameron Caskey]

I think we should. That's when America, you're black in 1802.

[Jack C.]

Things are great.

[Cameron Caskey]

Can we get the tariff charts from that year? I don't know. I just feel like our generation, like Cam, can attest to this. We were told what we had to do, and if we did it, then there would be an American dream of sorts, and that's not coming true. So I think that, like, what has been set out before us is maybe the big, the big gripe here. And also, you know, the millennials benefited so much from what was supposed to be, you know, this, this great explosion of innovation in tech in America. Everything was subsidized for millennials by these VCs, like Uber and, and Uber Eats. And any of these tech platforms that used to be so much better and weren't, like, preying upon people in their early good stages were either much cheaper or much less. I will make you angry for profit. So, so even, like, the benefits of what you want to be like, oh, you're in this great, you know, the world that's been created for you, we're also getting kind of like the shitty late stage capitalism version of it. There's my complaint. That's my 1902 rebuttal.

[Tim Miller]

I have a question for you, Tim. Did you and your friends, when you were in your early 20s, ever talk about, oh, gee, wouldn't it just be so much better if we were born, like 30 years ago? Because that's a conversation my friends and I have all the time. It's like, could you imagine how sick it would be if we just got to be this current age in like the 90s?

[Cameron Caskey]

Born in, like, 19? Yeah. Or born in the 70s or something like that?

[Tim Miller]

You guys never did that?

[Jack C.]

No, of course we didn't do that. Shit was great. Are you kidding me? We were benefiting from zirp. It was a normal Kind of weed. We're still getting able to get opium in our early 20th, actually, because the Afghanistan war hadn't started yet and ruined the opium supply in America. So that was nice. And then Uber started up and we were able to get very cheap rides and it was pick up our avocado toast, which was enjoyed that. And we started dressing like rustic. You know, we started and like listening to the lumineers some of you still have. And everything was just happy. I've seen people were happy. Yeah, people were happy. What? No. And we. And we appreciated the society we've been given. I mean, sure.

[Cameron Caskey]

Didn't you.

[Tim Miller]

You must have had malls that you could go to where you could just hang out and walk around and go to stores.

[Jack C.]

We mauled. Totally. We mauled. I mauled all the time.

[Tim Miller]

I mean, I mauled when I was like 12. Oh, my God. If you were a group of three.

[Jack C.]

Was mauling also like a slang for making out in your era, or is that just me?

[Cameron Caskey]

Not. Not particularly.

[Jack C.]

So we mauled at the mall. Oh, you could make out at the mall.

[Tim Miller]

Did you ever have a girl's phase, Tim?

[Jack C.]

I did.

[Tim Miller]

And how did that go for you?

[Cameron Caskey]

Horrible. Horrible. How was.

[Jack C.]

No confidence.

[Cameron Caskey]

More importantly, how was it for them? Where were they? That worse? There was no enjoying.

[Jack C.]

I know we're supposed to talk about Trump. I apologize to the Bulwark listeners, we're about to talk about Trump. But maybe some of you want to hear this. My prom date, I was. I brought. Was a friend of a friend. It's kind of like a blind prom date, but she was excited. She thought I was cute, apparently. And I got so drunk at the prom that I got taken to my friend's house and threw up and like, passed out. And my prom date had to be a third wheel and go home with the other couple that was actually mauling. So I abandoned her. I got too drunk to even take her home. And then I. And then I passed out of a friend's house.

[Cameron Caskey]

And now I would say that happens to the best of us. But to return to your 1902 point, we didn't have prom because of COVID Not that that's like the most consequential. I think if that is the consequential loss of life, then, like, you need to focus on some better things. If that's like the worst thing that ever happened to you, but just to your 19.

[Jack C.]

Good. Five. Good, good. Touche. Okay, we're going to do more prom or non prom stories. In the case of Jack And I don't know, maybe Cameron can reflect on the girls he was kissing when he wasn't running from school shooters. But we'll get back to that at the end of the episode. Currently, we should talk about how bad Donald Trump is. And Jack, you talk about that a lot on your program. But my, my, the thing that befuddles us, that is part of our exercise here on FY Pod, which is why we had Natalie on last week. I don't know how much that was that illuminated, but, but maybe a little bit. Well, is okay, so all this bad shit's happening. It's all pretty much Trump's fault. And like Trump has been the kind of main figure in public life as you've grown. So why are the other 22 year olds who are like vaping and trading crypto and you know, watching Dave Portnoy day trade on livestream? Like why, why aren't they, why aren't they lib pilled yet? I guess is my question.

[Cameron Caskey]

Probably because they thought it was always broken whether or not the Trump tariffs and economic collapse more broadly. I know that, you know, most people for some reason think the Trump presidency was 2017 to, you know, what, February of 2020. So they don't, you know, get upset at him for his horrible mismanagement of COVID in the first economic collapse he oversaw. But because they like more broadly did not think that anything was good, that is the perspective of my generation. Whether this changes it, that's still to be seen. I, I do think it will. When you have the cultural figures to call them like the Portnoy's pissed off, then it's starting to break through. Whether this will be like put at the feet of Trump, I, I don't actually know because it seems like he is always able to skirt accountability for some reason. But I do think that this is certainly.

[Jack C.]

What about your text chains? Do you have any text. Do you have any, do you have any mega bros that you text?

[Cameron Caskey]

I do and they're a little pissed, but it has to hit them in a different way. Those people aren't really invested in the stock market in any big way. Like my friends from back home. Again, I did get the text of kind of the more maga bros when they weren't getting the jobs or the market is tough. But again, we're still coming out of this time where for some reason we decided that that was a Biden economy with low unemployment. So until it starts to really hit them in a way that they can directly connect to Trump, which I guess is going to be the larger project of our media apparatus. I don't know how it's going to change their minds. But when Portnoy is getting pissed, I do see that as a good sign for the Gen Z Bro coalition and making them hate Trump. But it's also the greatest thing that Trump has going for him is that he's whatever anyone wants him to be to anyone. So it's what we've seen approaching the tariffs of, well, he's not actually going to do that. Well, what he meant when he said that what he's honestly going to do is all I heard from anyone in MAGA world. And that is how most people view the Trump of it all, that he is whatever they think he is. And so until what he is is completely fucking you and everyone can get on that point, it's not going to break through enough. But when you're interacting with it every day, it will.

[Tim Miller]

I think it's also worth noting that like people our age don't know what tariffs are. You know, we don't know how.

[Cameron Caskey]

Neither does the President.

[Jack C.]

You guys are stupid too.

[Tim Miller]

Well, you don't read whether or not the President knows. It sort of brings us back to Hanlon's Razor, which is the idea that you should never attribute to malice what can be adequately attributed to stupidity. So there's a lot of people in MAGA world where I, I call it maga's razor, where you apply both malice and stupidity. So for example, when Lauren Handjob at Beetlejuice, Boebert was mixing up Oliver and Roger Stone. I thought that that was stupidity. But MAGA has also shown us that there's always a little bit of malice involved. But with Trump, how much is he being a useful idiot for Peter Thiel and the other people who are trying to take the tank the economy and seize control. And how much is he twirling his mustache? I truly don't know how much Donald Trump understands what, what the tariffs were going to do here.

[Cameron Caskey]

Well, the teal point to me is the most important one because you can think the markets are crashing. Every guy who attended his inauguration has lost what, tens of billions of dollars. But then you also have to recognize what tariffs are.

[Jack C.]

A great guy's on stage is, yeah, but it's like not the forgotten man that was in the stadium. I don't know how much that was.

[Cameron Caskey]

Left out in the cold. That was my favorite part is that they were taking the screens away from the National Mall. And all the maga, all the MAGA People who are like, I paid so much money to be here and now it's being taken away. And they were talking about their cost. It's like, you've spent $4,000 to come to D.C. for the inauguration and costs are a big problem in your life. Okay, sure. But when they were taking all the screens away from the mall, it's like they were just like, how badly can we these people over. But the thing with like, you know, Bezos or Tim Apple or whoever wants to like, come to Mar a Lago and, you know, kiss his ass, like, they'll be a little. There'll be a little cut out for them. They can kind of have their exception. And that's when the corruption really is obviously going to start to ramp up. That's something that we certainly have to be focusing on. That is the, the best, like, song we can sing about the administration to me is who's getting off while you're getting fucked?

[Jack C.]

It's an interesting way to put it. I think that Trump. My answer is. Well, first of all, I said this. I think Cameron, like, really owned me right there when I was talking about how dumb Gen Z was. Then he immediately dropped Hamlin's razor after that. Just feel like that's a Columbia education for you. I read, Yeah, I went to Columbia for one semester.

[Tim Miller]

Hey, one and a half.

[Jack C.]

Excuse me, Trump. I think when he did the tweet about the bleat about how the fentanyl was going to get tariffed, I think that was a pretty good indicator that he doesn't really quite understand how tariffs work. I do think if you asked him, like, how is the tariff gathered? Like, who is collecting it? I don't really think he'd quite understand it, but, you know, I don't. So I do think this is. I think your MAGA razor is apt here. I think that it is idiocy and malice. Jack, I guess I want both of your take on this. Jack, first. So then the question is of getting these. It's true for every group, but we're focused on these younger guys, like getting them to realize that Trump is fucking them.

[Cameron Caskey]

Yeah.

[Jack C.]

Okay, how to do that? What are the right tools for that? In addition to being a content creator yourself and attending college, you also have been advising some Democrats on their social media and how they could maybe better talk to other people that were born after 9, 11. What were you. What's some of your advice been on that front?

[Cameron Caskey]

Well, some of my advice has been there's a, there's a great example that I like to use that fits all of this, which is members of Congress. Tim, you struggled with your mic because of your age early in this episode, but they don't still know yet how to use what mic when, and I had to explain to them. Sometimes it is good for social media to have bad audio quality when you want it to seem authentic when you're moving, when you're on the go, when you're abruptly starting something to catch someone's attention. But also sometimes it's good when you're in a professional setting and you want to say something clear to have good audio quality. Right. Good video quality. You want it to be professional. You want it to be good to look at some people in Congress who want to reach Gen Z can't and then shouldn't. Not everyone has to. It is not the group effort. That is totally okay. What I have advised as much as I possibly can, is if you don't know what you're talking about, you don't have to say it. And that is totally cool, because not everyone has to. But for those who do, be chronically online, post the JD you didn't say please with, you know, the NASDAQ falling apart behind it. Push those things. Find the places of the Internet where a lot of people are culturally and maybe apolitically, you know, obviously making fun of JD Vance for having a fat fucking face is like, that's inherently political, but not really. It's kind of just a meme at this point.

[Jack C.]

Sebastian, please put this on the screen for the YouTube people right now. It's been my favorite. It was, you didn't say thank you with the fat JD it really brings me a lot of joy.

[Cameron Caskey]

Yeah. And so it's like, engage with the things that you understand, and if you can speak to them, then you should. I. You had Rumen Gallego on and you were talking to him about, you know, Zinn and Drake and Kendrick and. And so on and so on. It's like. Like, if you understand those things, go for it, but if you don't, please, please don't. Like, obviously there are ways to approach social media saying the same thing. Little tweaks around the edges to help your algorithm that are. That are better, but really it's just been speak in an authentic voice. Feel like it's so much of what we lack in the Democratic Party. You know, I didn't like the Charlie Kirk Gavin Newsom podcast, and I know Cam's Gavin Newsom's number one hit list now. Number one enemy, number one hater, and I like that. But what Charlie Kirk did say that was correct is that, you know, all these Democrats in Congress are really just Democrats more broadly are afraid to, you know, face long form spaces when they're not kind of leaning on the talking point. But you should just be yourself. I think the reason that we've seen the success and popularity of Bernie and AOC in their tour, even with people who are Republicans or disaffected Republicans who, you know, don't align with their views, you know, socially, fiscally, whatever it may be, is that you always know that Bernie is coming from a place that Bernie is always coming from. He's not feeding you a line of. He's not trying to come up with something to fit a new narrative. And I feel like a lot of that is what we lack even in our social media approach, obviously, and all of our messaging.

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[Cameron Caskey]

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[Jack C.]

Can't do we need more very online chronic posters in the Democratic Party.

[Tim Miller]

I think it's bespoke to who's doing the posting. Like you'd think Bernie Sanders would not be the right candidate for viral online content because he's old and he's clearly not somebody who speaks Internet. And yet his video of him in like a snow jacket just saying to the camera, I am once again asking you for your support has become such a memeable thing that it gets people talking. And a lot of the tweets he posts are the ones that I see reposted the most, including by people who don't politically align with him. So I think Jack's right to say that the content, it sort of just depends on the situation. One thing that I noticed was that Cory Booker, a very odd politician, ended up becoming the superman of the Democratic world by doing this very strange thing where he disrupted Trump even just a little bit. And I think that that points to this very odd, abstract concept that people are going to respond positively to the folks who are standing up against Trump, especially if they're standing for 25 fucking hours straight. Which I watched that and I said, cory Booker. That's so admirable. That's so strong. And if you get me talking shit about Gavin Newsom, I could do 26 hours, because I am his Kendrick Lamar. Me and Gavin Newsom is the Kendrick and Drake.

[Jack C.]

Gavin is Drake.

[Cameron Caskey]

I hate the way that he walks, hate the way that he talks, hate the way that he dresses.

[Tim Miller]

I'm gonna. I'm gonna perform an anti Gavin Newsom anthem at the Super Bowl.

[Jack C.]

But, yeah, Gavin is never going to come out of my podcast. Because Jack, though, like, is that the. I want to ask about, like, that going and trying to reach out to bros. Like, is that right, though, is like the Corey thing. The Corey, The Cory Booker thing, that. Going after Trump, you interviewed him? Yeah, that was really more just about like feeding. Feeding the home team. Right?

[Cameron Caskey]

Well, I think. And I asked him, okay, so you did this. What. Why was it important to you? And it was really the. The. The first bit that I got out of it was like, he wanted to do this to demonstrate that there is stuff that we still can do. And kind of being instructive to the Democratic Party of what you should do. Cory Booker made a moment. It had, like, what, the live stream, 320 million likes on TikTok the Democrats put out. I don't know if you've seen, like, the, like, you know, like, it. This person highlights, and it's like Cory Booker at tight end at Stanford. I don't know if that's breaking through to the bros, but there's been a lot of Cory Booker fan edits. You know, Cam, you brought up virality. And something that I try to explain to these people is that you're not viral because your post does well, you are viral. When someone takes what you did, sees it as important enough or, you know, potentially successful enough on social, that they want to then share it. They want to make their own content out of your moment. And certainly we saw that from Cory Booker. And at least he's fighting. At least he's telling people, like, go out and do something. And, you know, I don't know if Democrats are going to go out and make a whole scene because they want to oppose Trump or if maybe they just want to make a moment for themselves. But I don't know, if you're. If you're a presidential contender, you kind of have to go do that. This could get me into a whole Kamala Harris rant that maybe we'll get into later. But it's showing people you can have a great moment right now and it is worthwhile to oppose them. Did that break through to all the bro spaces? I don't know. A little bit. Docked for 25 hours. I think that's pretty cool. But no, he's just demonstrating. Go out and speak. It's important.

[Jack C.]

Props around to Corey Pops all around. Snaps. The kids snap when they get.

[Tim Miller]

I mean, one of the things that the bros definitely don't respond to with the Democratic Party, obviously we need to start speaking their language a little bit more obviously, the sort of more performative stuff that, you know, when the Democrats use this kind of woke language but don't put their money where their mouth is and then suddenly turn their backs on a lot of the things that they're saying they're going to do.

[Cameron Caskey]

And that's the big problem.

[Tim Miller]

But, you know, I think that people see the Democratic Party as spineless. They see the Democratic Party performing this intent to get in the way of certain things, and then at the end of the day, a lot of people in the party will either capitulate to Trump or not stand up when it's important. So that's what Booker did. Less than the extreme virality and the widely positive response and also the message to people that there are Democrats who are going to try to do something to get in the way. What it was, was showing that the Democratic people in the Democratic Party have something of a spine. A spine that they will literally for 25 hours keep up. Because that man had to stand for 25 hours. And that was a message to people that someone is out here doing something that is terribly inconvenient. And yes, it's politically positive for him. It's not like he was dying for our sins up there, but it was somebody disrupting.

[Cameron Caskey]

Well, Cam, you hit on the most essential point that I continue to come back to when people are talking, oh, well, what do we need to do to change? And it's like all the, oh, the woke. The woke and all of Gavin Newsom deciding he was gonna have every MAGA person on his podcast. Is that the problem with saying. There's no problem with emphatically saying, like Tim Walls did, you are not going to check the genitals of some seventh grader who wants to play soccer with their friends. That's fucking batshit. Like, you're just not going to do that. That's weird. The problem is, is when you pretend to care and then pull back when it's not important.

[Jack C.]

Right?

[Cameron Caskey]

When you want to talk down to someone on this perch that you have of like, oh, my, you know, my social ideology is better than yours, but once it gets inconvenient, I will immediately run away from it. And again, that's why I've told these people, it's like, do whatever you like to do, Speak the way that you want to speak. If it doesn't break through, it's fine. You're already in Congress. You're not going to be president or a senator. Just like, communicate to your constituents and try to do well. Just be yourself. God, I cannot believe we're having this conversation with adults here. But it's like, that's what we've had to say to them. It's like, stop thinking about anything else. Just talk like a normal person. Say fuck if you do. If you don't, please don't. There was the great clip because Brian and I were giving this whole like, please swear if you like to presentation. And immediately after, I can't even remember who it was. I think it was a, a congressperson from Washington. She said, she's like, I don't usually swear much, but we have to go out there and we have to fuck Trump. And I was like, we don't have. No, we don't have to fuck Trump. Like, you can't, you can't deliver this message, so don't. And that's okay. But it's when we, it, it is when we act like, oh, these colleges are these liberal bastions and the thing that we're doing and care for our students and then we'll immediately fucking sell them to some mass thugs. That's when people really hate us, when our shit is exposed as fake. And that is a lot of what we see way too much of.

[Jack C.]

Okay, so I agree with that. And I think that people should be care about what they care about. It's one of my big pieces of advice is to Dems and be mad and show passion about what you care about. Okay, but, and, but is there not some policy element to it and some actually demonstrating that you care about what. What the. What younger men care about. And to me, it's like, look, what were a lot of these guys radicalized by? Or like, it's like, I didn't want to. It's a lot of. It's like libertine stuff. I don't want to wear a mask. I don't want you to regulate my crypto. I want to be able to have a creme brulee vape without that being. Without the government telling me that I can't. Right. Like, there's some element of that. Some of it is the Maha stuff. Like, I want to fucking looks, Max. I want to, like, do my. You know what I mean? So, like, mouth tape, right? Whatever. Yeah, mouth tape, whatever. Don't mouth tape people. Not a good idea. The. The. So my question is, is there not some outreach, like, substantive outreach that needs to happen? We're like, there've got to be some Dems that are aligned with some bros on some issues. So can't you go on to those podcasts and talk about those things? Like, do you have to be fully down the line and it.

[Cameron Caskey]

And it has to be. It has to be apolitical. I think we're. We're going to get into this.

[Jack C.]

Can't it be on some issues? Can't. There's got to be something.

[Cameron Caskey]

It has to be. It has to be apolitical in target lives. Very specifically, in my opinion, like the. The manosphere Maha, you know, crypto, all of that stuff is just like. It's about just betterment of your life in ways that seem very easy. Like, crypto is technically very easy. If you buy the right shitcoin and explodes, you're rich, Right? If you just eat steak and eggs off. Yeah. If you just, like, go to the moon, baby. But it's like, if you just eat your steak and eggs and avocado off the cutting board with some honey, now you're healthy. And, you know, Jordan Peterson had such great success because he. The first thing he said was, like, it is good to make your bed in the morning, have some breakfast, take a shower, and then do life. And the very small but consequential things that, like, tell young men, all right, here's a way to improve your life is good, it's beneficial. And if we can just speak to that in some way, like, here is the policy. I know you talked to Wes Moore, and it's like, is more male nurses the way to go? But it's like, I don't know, here is a small thing that we're gonna do that's targeted because we care about you and we realize that you're not the enemy. As a lot of young guys in my generation, I don't know, feel like they've been presented early on in their lives that they told that they for right or for wrong, like had to go away or had to shut up or we didn't need your voice right now. So I was like, no, we do care about you and here's a privilege. Yeah. And you know, that's talk about like, you know, wanting someone who's gonna oppose all that. I don't know, I just don't feel like anyone feels like they have privilege. Certainly, you know, young men who are disproportionately graduating at like what, 60%, 50% less than women in their generation. These are people who do not feel like that they have a positive future to look towards while they still feel this pressure from all the influencers that they're, you know, being talked down to that like they need to be a conventional, you know, man and provide. And they don't think that they can do that. And so then they, you know, go to lonely spaces where they don't talk to people. Jim is a great example of this. Not that playing video games is bad, but that's pretty self isolating. It's also much cheaper and still interaction with other guys. It's not, it's not good. But we just need like very sub who did that?

[Jack C.]

And I don't, I don't know. I don't know these people you're talking about. Who's Jim?

[Cameron Caskey]

Who's Jim? Oh, Jim. J. J, I am. That's where you go. Go to gym.

[Jack C.]

Oh, go to the gym.

[Tim Miller]

You go to the J I am.

[Cameron Caskey]

Oh, you haven't seen this. Go to go gym. It's a thing.

[Tim Miller]

No, I don't know what that is.

[Cameron Caskey]

Oh, that's just like the gym, bro. I go gym and it's just J, I am. We're learning today.

[Jack C.]

Yeah, I am learning. This is, this is a cultural exchange. That's the point of the show.

[Cameron Caskey]

The gap in Gen Z is really wide though. And I think it like actually is like we saw some graphic.

[Tim Miller]

We never ended up talking about it on the show, but there was something like Gen Z Volume 1 and Gen Z Volume 2 and it was sort of the pre Covid Gen Z and the Gen Z that had something of a teenage experience without Covid. But for me, the biggest problem is that a lot of Democrats engage in culture wars because they don't want to talk about the more populist policies that actually do get people together. And culture wars are designed for us to lose because white men, who we kind of need the votes of, feel left out by most of the culture wars. We feel as though the culture wars are designed to be some sort of self flagellation tour for us to be punished for being white men. And the biggest problem when Democrats are engaging in these culture wars because they don't want to talk about oligarchs and they don't want to talk about the financial system that's fucking everybody over and robbing us of our future. We'll engage in these woke culture wars and then we won't put our money where our mouth is. Like, we get so much shit on trans issues. And instead of doing the normal person thing, which is saying to people, do you really fucking care? Like, how has your life been affected by a trans person being able to use the bathroom? Like, how does that actually affect you? Why do you give a shit? You're wasting your fucking time. Right? Instead of doing that, we grandstand on an issue like trans rights, and then we've got guys like Gavin Newsom walking it back. So we engage in Gavin Newser hate fest. We engage in culture wars. Culture wars that we're gonna fucking lose. And then not only do we not put our money where our mouth is, we see things like anti oligarch messaging. And a lot of people in the Democratic party don't cultivate the energy around that. And they just go back to saying, I'm going to perform some sort of.

[Jack C.]

Society centrist him has to intervene. Cam, I'm sorry. The. Yeah, I'm sorry. Centrist Tim is coming out. Jon Huntsman spokesperson's coming out. Get ready. No labels. Hashtag the like. Okay, maybe that would work to de. Emphasize the culture wars and emphasize economic populism. And that is going to be an attempt that people. Someone in the Bernie AOC wing goes for. And I'm okay with that. That's probably better. It's certainly better than what you guys have been talking about, like limp wokeism or whatever. But isn't there a different. A better option which is just like, be fucking normal? Like, can't we just. Can't you just have a Democrat that, like, wants a strong social safety net? I'm not answer. Well, they're like, wants a strong social safety net and like, also wants to protect people's rights. But, like, thinks it's fine if a community Or a league wants to make a rule where you can't, you know, be in the shot put at age 17 if you were assigned male at birth. Like, that's not, that's a fine rule to have. Like, that's not that big of a deal. And like, you just go into the shows and you talk to the guys about whatever you care about. Like Jack said, you talk a little about football and you do some day trading and you're just like, you can just hang. You're just a good hang. Can't we just find a good hang? Isn't that better? Isn't that then like, you know, deciding that we need to do full, Full populism, Full left populism.

[Cameron Caskey]

No. Like the short of it is no. I feel like everyone is looking.

[Jack C.]

We tried that. Obama did that pretty good. Bill Clinton was pretty good at that. That worked. Why not? Why mess with a good thing?

[Cameron Caskey]

Did it not feel revolutionary in 2008? Did it not feel inspirational and that there was self actualizing to be had through politicians? I don't know. I feel like everyone needs someone to feel fulfilled through. And if we're going back to these, these bro spaces I care so much about, it's like they're like uniquely positioning themselves against institutions to have their success. To tell you you can succeed, right? All the, all the crypto guys or the morning routine dude who I wanted to talk about, what they are pitching to you is you can have the same, you know, economic stability that I can. You can live the great life that I do. If you abandon your ideas of what the traditional path of, you know, education and getting a job looks like. You know, there's a reason why we see this attack on intellectualism and expertise. Because they want to say it's wrong. Because they don't want you to engage with that. They want you to buy their course. Right? And I'm not saying that our next president needs to be like, again, buy my course. But I don't know. People want a solution to their problems that they attribute to a broken set of institutions. And so I don't think that just like kind of chilling and like we're going to do business as usual. It's not business as usual. Who feels like business as usual has ever been the case? I cannot remember a time when Donald Trump didn't really exist in our minds. Like, this is how it has always been. Of course I want change. I want Medicare for All. I want our government to make shit work. I want us to build more houses. I want us to do things. I do not want to return to some Obama norms era where nothing gets done and we treat the other side like the regular people. They're clearly not. I don't want to snap back into that. No, let's present a positive vision in which we're actually going to fight for something.

[Jack C.]

Here's what I like about Jack. Here's what I like about Jack. Jack is so in on the discourse that he just offered a simultaneous abundance and socialism agenda. Jack's like, I'm cool with Ezra. I'm cool with Ezra Klein. I want abundance. Let's build houses. I'm also cool with dsa. I want Medicare for All.

[Cameron Caskey]

Great job taking a dsa, Jack.

[Jack C.]

You're doing both. You're not. You're like, I'm not. I want everybody to watch my feed. If you're. If you're no abundance bro, or if you're an abundance bro, you're welcome here. Cameron, what do you think about. I don't know.

[Cameron Caskey]

Isn't this what more normal people fucking want? Is things to be better? I don't know. It seems reasonable.

[Tim Miller]

I think the Democratic Party should focus all of our effort on positioning ourselves as the party that is fighting off the next Great Depression. I was looking at this article that said Republicans panic over Trump tariffs because last time, quote, we lost the House and Senate for 60 years. And part of me is saying, okay, so we're about to face the consequences of Trump's new administration. It is going to be really fucking bad. This reciprocal tariffs shit that I'm still kind of learning myself, but it doesn't sound pretty, is going to be disastrous for the American economy. And the Republican Party is directly to blame, as they have been for so many of the things like this. So if the Democrats say, okay, we are going to focus all of our energy on implementing policies that try and stave off this next Great Depression, we are going to do everything we can to prevent the people who are trying to tank the economy. That's going to affect people a lot more. That. That is going to work because Democrats tweeting about egg prices did not work for people. But us saying they are tanking the economy on purpose. Here's what we're doing. That is going to get a lot more people involved than any of the culture war issues that we're fighting. And it's something where we can really put our money where our mouth is as opposed to something like trans issues where the party's clearly not going to be able to align on it across the board. Let's say Trump's tariffs, like other tariffs before it, are tanking the economy and the billionaires are going to seize more power than ever. Let's be the last line of defense and do everything we can to make the system work for you.

[Jack C.]

Yeah, Econ pilled Cameron Castle.

[Cameron Caskey]

And just because you brought it up, I just have to complain about one thing. Not a you can complain. I'm. I'm tired of eggs. I've heard enough about eggs. We got to stop with the eggs. It's like first they came for the global economy and I said nothing because I was fucking focused on eggs. Stop saying eggs. You sound so stupid. Like, yes, eggs were expensive and people were upset. Lots of people eat eggs. But eggs are like. It's not the only thing. It is an example of things. Please stop talking about the eggs. Okay? That's my point.

[Jack C.]

Feels like something that. No, no, here's what it is. It's fine to talk about it if you're mentioning it normally. It feels like a crutch.

[Cameron Caskey]

Yes.

[Jack C.]

And like, like this someone actually. I'm not actually in touch with what's happening in the economy and people keep talking about the eggs. That's what I'm going to talk about. I feel that what the candidates do. Okay, we're going to run out of time because we really. This should probably be a three hour podcast, but I've got to go to the airport because I don't know if you guys know, but I'm in New York and I didn't come.

[Cameron Caskey]

Didn't want to hang out with us.

[Jack C.]

Cheated on Cameron with some of my other podcast co hosts. The, the Morning Routine. Did you have any bits on that? Have people seen this? Have you seen this video? It's, it's very viral. If you haven't seen it, it's a. It's a black guy, muscly black guy, and he gets up at three in the morning and he puts his face in cold water. Then he dies.

[Cameron Caskey]

So this is important. Can I explain it, please?

[Tim Miller]

I've never heard of this, so I need you to.

[Cameron Caskey]

This is. I was, I was in D.C. last week. I literally talked to everyone about this. I got Eric Swalwell to do it because it's just my obsession because it's so important to encapsulate everything that we need to talk about with young men right now. Ok? So this guy, he's huge. He's jacked, he's big. He wakes up at 3:40 in the morning, right? He's got the muscles, he takes the mouth Tape and the nose, you know, breath thing off. And he brushes his teeth and he puts on his Rolex, which he wears in the water. And when he's running, I don't get it, but he's got a cool Rolex. But he has these bottles of like the coolest sparkling water and most expensive that you could get. Throughout the day they are poured into these bowls of ice that he dunks his face in. This is clearly a dumb guy. The only point that you see that he has like some level of economic success as he's in front of his computer screen like ostensibly in a meeting and he goes, oh well we got to do at least 10,000, which means nothing. I don't know what that means. But the most important thing, probably, probably.

[Jack C.]

Ethereum, probably eth, probably buying eth.

[Cameron Caskey]

The most important thing about the morning routine guy, aspirational vision of health, wealth, happiness, all that structure is throughout the videos. A faceless, nameless, voiceless woman comes and does acts of service to him. She puts on his clothes, she pours the water in the bowl, she gives him his food. This is what is being presented to men is that self actualization comes from economic stability. That gets you a servant woman. That is what is being pushed. And you had Deja Fox on the pod who just announced for Congress, you know, people should support her. Deja good, good candidate. I didn't like one thing she said. She said that women have escaped being red pilled. That is fundamentally untrue. The same economic insecurity plaguing men and making them move to the right is the same for women as well, who have also been taught as they've been pushed into this, you know, right wing echo chamber. I think a lot of it has to do with Alabama sorority rush is that they would also like a lot of the nice things that come with the economic stability. And they think that they have to get that through men that pop up on their feed with that economic stability. But this is what is taught to people. Yes, the trad wives, it is all tied up and not like some traditional conservatism. No one wants to live on a farm. That sounds like bullshit. Where do all of these MAGA influencer that you see live? They live in la, they live in New York, they live in dc.

[Tim Miller]

They're not like, like woman of the people. Natalie Winters, who went to Harvard Westlake, the most elite high school in.

[Jack C.]

Okay, hold on. What is the push? Okay, I, I accept your analysis of the situation.

[Cameron Caskey]

Yes.

[Jack C.]

That actually makes it worse though. Right? So if the right is offering these people. And if this guy isn't really political, he's like, no, but that's why it's cultural, right? Exactly. So if he is offering young men, like, you can get your power back. You know, you can. You can. You know, men can be strong and a fucking provider again. And, you know, women are secondary. They're just there to support you. If that's their pitch to young men, what is the counter pitch to that? That is appealing. That does not make you sound like you want to diminish their power or that you're. Whatever.

[Cameron Caskey]

This is what it is. They are making that appeal. So you buy their course on drop shipping, right? That's what it's all about, is that you can do this from your home. You can escape the matrix, right? Because this system is broken. You're going to do a 9 to 5, like the Andrew Tate club. It's like a job. I have a boss. I'm so glad. I'm so sad we didn't get to talk about Andrew Tate. I might have one point at the end on Andrew Tate. Keep doing it if we have time. But it is about.

[Jack C.]

We'll just cut the boomer mailbag today. We have enough from Jack.

[Cameron Caskey]

But it is, it is about. It is about, like, escaping the system that does not provide you with what you need. Your Mallory McMorrow interview, right? She said people in Michigan used to be able to have their house, have their car, pay for college, things are good, go on a vacation, maybe a house up north. None of that seems or looks or certainly is available to anyone in our generation, even if they go to the good college and take on hundreds of thousands of dollars in student debt that they'll never be able to pay off, and then they'll never be able to get a house. This is our outlook on things. We think we have to break out of the system, what we have to provide, whether it is a government workforce program, which I think would be fantastic, is a vision for people to have good jobs that respect them and give them dignity in their work and lives that lead to a future where they do not have to work anymore. And that's not when they're 75 or 80 years old.

[Jack C.]

Okay, so how do you do that without sounding like a P word?

[Tim Miller]

Well, I think that we've really said pussy a couple times on this podcast. We got to do something.

[Cameron Caskey]

You can fire that.

[Tim Miller]

I'm glad that you.

[Cameron Caskey]

You mauled before. Sorry, I've mauled. You've mauled. You can say pussy.

[Tim Miller]

Okay. I mean, I just, I'm glad that we're avoiding saying pussy because it's really not something we should be doing on this podcast. I think one thing that's missing is emphasizing the idea that general liberal values actually provide a clearer path to having fun in life than conservative values. Because conservative values want you to be isolated. Conservatives want you to be isolated. They don't want you to be around other people. Because when you meet people from other communities, when you kind of expand your vision of how human beings work, you tend to adopt more liberal principles. I know people who have come from MAGA heartland families that have then moved to cities, and whether or not they've necessarily changed the way that they vote, their outlook and perspective on shit has changed for the better because they just met other people. And conservative principles, whether or not they provide you this stability that comes with being in this, you know, nuclear family from the 1960s, they prevent you from expanding your horizons and being around other people. And part of what aligns culturally with the type of liberalism that people reject is having a more exciting social life. It's getting to meet other people. And I think that that's really important. And I think that focusing on the idea that these conservative principles isolate you and hold you back is one thing that could be very valuable.

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[Cameron Caskey]

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[Jack C.]

Listening to you, I had a what would have been a great idea, unfortunately, if it wasn't for the tragedy of the suicide. What you need, the Dems need is a Bourdain. This is the answer. The worldly masculinity. I'm a man, but I go and travel and I care and I'm interested in other cultures and I get to have a bon vivant kind of lifestyle who is.

[Tim Miller]

You know what else we need? We need more guys like Bill Burr. Bill Burr is coming out like a voice for the people. He is everything that was appealing a long time ago about Joe Rogan.

[Cameron Caskey]

Like this, too. Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

Bill Burr is no bullshit. I don't know if you all saw this clip that came out this week of him talking to people in the media who are trying to gotcha him with these questions about where he is on certain points in politics. He was just like, no, I'm not doing this. You. I'm a dancing clown. You shouldn't listen to my opinions about anything. After he was saying certain political statements that would otherwise be considered inflammatory is. No, he is a man. He acts like a man. And he also talks shit about guys like Elon Musk. And if you have any questions about it for him, he's going to say off. I'm a comedian. Go fuck yourself.

[Jack C.]

He's also in an interracial marriage and he loves his wife. And like, you can do all those things.

[Tim Miller]

And he makes it cool to love your wife and he makes it cool to respect your wife.

[Cameron Caskey]

Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

And it's a great thing. But the point is he doesn't pontificate about whatever bullshit he's espousing. He just tells it like it is. So, yes, we need a board date. We need to emphasize worldliness and expanding your horizons. We also need guys like Bill Burr who are going to be no fucks given while also saying the right stuff and not throwing themselves a fucking party about it. Bill Burr isn't asking you to thank him for espousing certain progressive beliefs.

[Jack C.]

Have you thanked him?

[Tim Miller]

I think that's important.

[Jack C.]

You know who we don't need on this front and who doesn't fit this mold? Tim Walls.

[Cameron Caskey]

Stop it. That's fucking bullshit. No, I'm going to disagree with you now. Tim Walls is going after the nerds. Tim Walls. I can't. I'm going to let you take it because he was constrained by the consultants. You go for it. I'm going to. I'm just going to settle my anger for a second with that statement.

[Tim Miller]

We agree. The most popular the Harris campaign ever was, at least in front of me, was when Tim Walls was calling the Republicans weird. That was the most energy I ever saw for Harris other than when Sleepy J stepped down was when Tim Wall said what you guys are doing is weird. Saying that kids shouldn't get school lunches is weird. Saying that we should control women's bodies is weird. That's the long and short of it. It's fucking odd that you guys are acting like this. That was when I saw the most people excited about this campaign. But I also don't swear by Tim Walls like he's the end all be all. I'm just saying like I do. Him being toothless in a debate against Sladey Vance, like it's over.

[Jack C.]

That's not career is over. That's a career ender.

[Cameron Caskey]

Stop it.

[Jack C.]

You let, if you let. Oh, you haven't thanked me yet. JD Vance walk all over you and you talk. Talk about how he's got great intentions. JD Vance is a sociopath. He's the least appealing person in all of public life. Sorry. You need somebody. You need somebody with the fucking cajones to go ahead to toe to toe.

[Cameron Caskey]

So are we saying that now the political rule is that vice presidential debates do matter? That they are. That they are important. I just can't. I can't agree with that. No. I too was upset with that night. I thought it was a complete failure. I don't think we should be nice to these people. But Tim Wallace was not nice to these people. People. Right. Like he was not at first. He was told to settle it down. He's apologized for that. I think Tim Walls is the guy. I think Tim Walls is our fdr. I think Tim Walls has already made it clear that when he gets in he's. He's up. We're actually making change. And I am full. Tim Walls pilled. He was the only person on either of those tickets with a positive approval rating. People like Tim Walls, he's relatable guy. He can play Madden. He's an everyman. He is sure he couldn't play Madden.

[Jack C.]

Did you watch him play Madden? Yeah, very poorly. I bet AOC beat him.

[Cameron Caskey]

So he didn year old man who was just running it up the gut every time just halfback pitch. That's your big problem with Tim Walls?

[Jack C.]

Yeah, it was. His Madden strategy was goes against the Jack Kosher Ella or ethos. Do what you really do.

[Cameron Caskey]

But he does play. He just likes to run it up the gut. There's nothing wrong with that. Give me those three yards every time.

[Tim Miller]

My biggest problem with Tim Walls during the debate was that he was playing it too nice. Like he was being a.

[Cameron Caskey]

He was.

[Tim Miller]

He was being all respectability politics with Sladey Vance. And I'm just like, dude, this guy is a jackass who's being funded by this generation's Roy Cohn. Peter Thiel, like, go up there and be like, hey, J.D. vance, tell me the story of how Peter. Tell us. Tell everybody who Peter Thiel is and tell us the story about how he funded your career, put you on the map, and how he's involved with you and Donald Trump. Let's talk about that. No, we got like, a J.D. i'm sure you're a nice guy, blah, blah, blah. No, go to J.D. vance and say, hey, remember when you called Donald Trump Hitler? Remember when you said Donald Trump was Hitler? And it's like, no, we're running with them now. That's what I would have liked to see. I don't necessarily think this is the next fdr. I don't live and die by walls, but I think Tim Walls has become Tim. This goes for you and me. I think he's become our new Luigi and Bibi Netanyahu, where he's come up, like, three episodes in a row.

[Jack C.]

Okay, I want to move on because.

[Cameron Caskey]

He came up in episodes. It's about to be like, what the fuck is that?

[Jack C.]

Yeah, that is our. Our Mount Rushmore of the podcast. We need a fourth BB Luigi, Tim Waltz. We'll see who. We'll see who gets that last slot. I want to play a game on the inverse. I think it's a lot easier. It's a lot harder to be like, who is a Dem that can speak to the youth? It's challenging. It's not. It's not as easy it seems. You know, it is easy. Who can we make the face of Maga for these people? Like, who is very unappealing? I think this is something we've been poor at. Like, I look at the Trump world and I'm like, Mike Johnson, like, monitors his kids porn. I don't know that enough barstool listeners know about Mike Johnson. I think we should talk about him more. Scott Besant is a ponce. Oh, this is one word I can't say because Sebastian says that it demonetizes us, but he's a ponce. A feat. You know what? Who is like saying, I don't want you to have a big screen TV f. Slur. Yeah, he is. Okay. He's horrible and very unappealing. And I think I would like people to learn more about him as well. Are there any other characters?

[Cameron Caskey]

I think it's Elon Obviously they like Elon though.

[Tim Miller]

No, dude, how much people fucking hate Elon just lost a key race in Wisconsin because those people who are showing up in Wisconsin were not voting for a judge. They were voting against Elon Musk.

[Cameron Caskey]

I would also say this, that with the now I'm doing Trump hands, I gotta stop. I'm gonna put those away. Sometimes, sometimes it's just as the. Sometimes, quite frankly, it comes over me and I gotta stop doing that. But what I think that we have failed to do is through our Internet practices. Something I've been talking about a lot lately is I think annoyance on the Internet is way more powerful than anger. Like annoyance keeps you there, annoyance makes you comment, annoyance keeps it in your brain. Like J.D. vance is. Sure he's enraging, but he's annoying, right? You just want to talk about how awful he is. JD is a great example of this because he's a slime ball, he's a squish and no one likes him. Right. We have to come up with a better version of what a Republican stereotype is in your mind. Maybe not Republican, but like Magnus, like the idea that a Democrat is the blue haired college girl who goes to Columbia with Jack. Like that is transient. Like that's in people's mind. We do not have a guy is.

[Jack C.]

A guy with small penis who makes fun of you, who doesn't cries and then cries when he gets pushed.

[Tim Miller]

I don't think when I'm talking to my friends who are Republican aligned and these are the people who are telling me like, you know, my family voted for Trump, they didn't vote for Elon Musk. I don't think I can get them to be very interested in someone like Mike Johnson. I think the best target right now, especially if the Republican Party does what it seems like they're going to do and tries to distance themselves from Musk before the midterms because Musk is obviously such a great way to mobilize people against MAGA. I think it's J.D. vance. I think J.D. vance is very easy to paint with the right facts. As a puppet of the elite, J.D. vance is charmless. Just because he's a debate lord like Ben Shapiro doesn't mean he has actual appeal. The people who love Donald Trump don't love J.D. vance. They just are glad that Trump has somebody who's, you know, a good puppet.

[Jack C.]

For him doing what he wants, unlike that horrible Mike Pence and mother.

[Tim Miller]

So I think that, and these memes that we're seeing people, these memes of people distorting JD's fans, JD's face to be even more embarrassing looking and you know, making fun of the did you ever say please thank you thing? It's really popular. J.D. vance is charmless. Donald Trump is a monster. He's attacking our institutions, blah blah, blah. We don't like him here at the Bulwark. Spoiler alert. Bill Crystal doesn't like him. But JD Vance is not a charmer. Donald Trump is a charmer. JD is a fucking cardboard cuck loser who fucks couches. And we ought to talk about that. And Tim Walsh would have talked about it on the debate stage.

[Cameron Caskey]

I have one important point. Unless we have.

[Jack C.]

No, it's your final point. One more point for Jack.

[Cameron Caskey]

My final point is about porn. So this is great. This is the nice male wheelhouse. I would actually say I'm not into porn.

[Jack C.]

Just so you know. I have a lot of isis. That's not one for me.

[Cameron Caskey]

Well, I have, I have intellectual thoughts about it, which is a great thing to say, but I would not make framing Mike Johnson is going after your porn. I don't think that that would actually break through every. The people who consume porn and only fans the most are those who are like most upset with it. Like all these like oh, we hate the only fans girls for making a bunch of money. It's like I don't where's the money coming from? Like you guys are, you guys are spending it. So there is like this internal hatred of a very lonely guy who spends all this time, you know, mauling himself and so like, but that, that isolation, like it's kind of like the self hatred. I would just say on my point there that there is a big like we need to like get this out of and it's poison and it's bad. It's like the same Maha but for you know, screens and you know, playing with your porpoise, to put it bluntly.

[Jack C.]

Got it.

[Tim Miller]

Real quick, before we finish this up, I want to say I'm going to announce next week's guest at the end of the show. But coming up within the next couple weeks, there is an adult creator. I don't know if porn star is the word for it anymore, but I met online an adult creator, an identified MILF dominatrix named London River. Her Twitter feed is one third links to her onlyfan page and, and her porn videos with full on explicit nudity right here on Twitter. And then two thirds of it is just liberal retweets. Like she, she's just retweeting Tim and a bunch of the other Democrats that get retweeted a lot.

[Cameron Caskey]

So it's porn and then lib porn.

[Tim Miller]

It's one third like straight up her completely naked and two thirds, you know, people talking shit about the tariffs. And I saw her and I said, hey London, big fan. We would love to have you on FYpod. And she said, are you sure? Because you know the stuff that I put out, some people might find it controversial. And I said, london, that's what we do here at the FYpod. So you're going to find out soon who our next guest is, but we're going to have her on to talk about whatever you talk to a liberal porn star about.

[Jack C.]

We're skipping rumor my wife because we're out of time. We're doing Gen Z News and it's going to be a rapid fire Gen Z News. Here's, here's the theme music.

[Tim Miller]

Friend of the show and recipient of defamatory attacks from Jack Deja Fox is running for Congress in Arizona. There's a special election because her congressman unfortunately passed away. And now our first of presumably many FY pod guests is about to join the ranks of Congress and she's really going to shake things up. How do you.

[Jack C.]

Here's why I want to end on a positive note. You know, you and Jack, it's all woe is me for Gen Z. There's no hope, there's no chance for a future society has ruined us. The guest list of FYPOD in its own will prove that wrong. Just think about all the successes that we'll have, all the little buds that will blossom. You know, they'll start here with us with Cameron and his, and his brick background, you know, with us talking about bisexuality. And then they'll go off and become, you know, speaker of the House or in Natalie's case, like maybe the spokesperson for a foreign Nazi party or you know, in Jack's case, who knows what. He could be kind of a, you.

[Tim Miller]

Know, he's gonna go to Burning man at some point.

[Jack C.]

Burning man, political crossover success. He's coaching congresspeople on how to curse on the Internet. Think about all these successes that we'll have. There's a lot of opportunity out there in the world. It might not be the traditional path, but it'll happen.

[Tim Miller]

Everybody, next week we are going to have the man, the number one Democrat influencer. Makes me and Jack even more than Jack.

[Cameron Caskey]

Sorry, my views are higher than his. I know what you're going to say.

[Tim Miller]

We are having the great Harry Sisson. And if you don't know who that is, I encourage you to go to Twitter.

[Cameron Caskey]

Hey, now.

[Tim Miller]

It's called X and just can't believe.

[Cameron Caskey]

We didn't get to talk about this.

[Tim Miller]

Do a hairy binge. We're so excited to have him on. It's going to be a great week. Jack, you're the man. Let's post up soon. We live close to each other. This is.

[Cameron Caskey]

And come back.

[Jack C.]

Jack, I don't know, we might need some bonus content with you. I have several. We had several topics we didn't get to. So we'll do it again.

[Cameron Caskey]

I feel like everything we didn't get to because Tim just wanted to complain about 1902 because he's bad at arguing when.

[Jack C.]

Okay, well, next time. How about this? How about this, Jack? You come back on the show, I'll host and I. Yeah, I'm gonna. I'll take a total backseat. You do the show map, you do the rundown, you pick the clips. You do Sebastian's job. Actually, after, if you want to, you edit it. It's all you. It'll be the show.

[Tim Miller]

And with that, what can we say except slay. Thanks for tuning in to Fypod new episode.

[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Cameron Caskey]

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