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- [00:00]
Tim Miller
Foreign.
- [00:23]
Cameron Caskey
Hey everybody, it's Cameron Caskey and.
- [00:25]
Tim Miller
It'S Tim Miller and you are listening.
- [00:26]
Cameron Caskey
To fypod, the Bulwarks Gen Z investigation show where today we are going to be talking about El Salvador and the guy from El Salvador who kind of looks like a dumb fucking idiot who's at the White House today. And Trump looked bored while he was talking. Trump looked like he even knew how dumb this guy was. Who is this Bukkake guy? How did he get into the Bukele?
- [00:50]
Tim Miller
Bukkake. Bukele. Some fun facts about him for you, Cam. He invested heavily into bitcoin for the nation of El Salvador. So El Salvador's got a very big bitcoin play. And he also just started jailing lots of people. Now in this case there's a lot of crime in El Salvador and there are a lot of refugees from El Salvador for a while coming to America. But the manner in which he's done it, the crime crackdown has been, you know, kind of Nazi ish, I guess you would say. It has been, you know, not, you know, the way that we do things in this country. He just kind of rounds people up and throws them in a dystopia RoboCop prison. And so that was a big problem for El Salvador or an issue for El Salvador, but it's become our problem because he, I think he became buddies with Don junior. You can tell how they would, you can't you kind of tell that they would be buddies. Him and Don Junior. Doesn't he like give off Don Junior's buddy kind of vibes in the sense.
- [01:55]
Cameron Caskey
That he seems like a dumb bro who wants to be a bro but doesn't have the swagger for it. Like his haircut is giving 14 year old soccer player that I went to middle school with, like he, he, he looks like he has no idea what's going on. He has no idea what he's saying. He, you know, so often in this administration and in this right wing world movement, not only MAGA but also the people around the globe who are acting this way, you ask yourself how much is this evil and how much is this stupidity. And I think this guy leans a lot harder on the stupidity than a lot of people in the MAGA global movement.
- [02:32]
Tim Miller
Yeah, I don't know. The prison is pretty evil. So I'd say he's got a good dose of both. He does have a really bad haircut though. I do, I do concur with you on that.
- [02:40]
Cameron Caskey
The haircut is really stupid. The outfit's really Stupid. I saw this on, I think Bulbar Twitter. He's not wearing a tie, which you'd think J.D. vance would have something to say about that. And he, he called Abrego Garcia, the gentleman who is never convicted of terrorism and is in one of his El Salvador gulags right now. He called him a terrorist. And I have a feeling that Bukaki isn't aware that this guy is not a terrorist. It doesn't seem like he knew that he was wrong.
- [03:11]
Tim Miller
I think what is happening here is that he is just calling everyone that he puts in the Gulangs terrorists or gang members because that in his view absolves him of having to have any responsibility. Like if this person is a terrorist or a gang member, then they have no rights. That doesn't matter what your questions are. We don't want them back on the street. As Trump was like, they're sick puppies. And so I think that it's as simple as that. I mean, I. Obviously he knew he was going to be asked about this, so that was like his prepared pitch was that like he can't bring a so called terrorist back into the country. Later in the interview, Trump is talking about sending US Citizens now to El Salvador, not just people that are coming here looking for asylum, as he's already done. So, like, I don't, you know, I mean, it takes us to a very dark place if you get to a point where, where, you know, Bukkake and Trump can just say you're a gang member or a terrorist and then you get sent to a prison camp with no recourse. And, you know, if you start applying that to US Criminals, like, you know, it could, it could go, it could go to a very bad place.
- [04:32]
Cameron Caskey
The law got in the way of it and it didn't even work. So over, over dinner last week, we were talking with our good friend Teddy Goff and he mentioned a bulwark show called the Takes. I wasn't familiar with this because I don't, you know, interact with media, but can I offer a take here? Can I give you Cam's take?
- [04:52]
Tim Miller
Yeah, please.
- [04:52]
Cameron Caskey
Okay, so you got Trump and he's looking around the globe for guys like Bukaki from El Salvador and for other criminals who are willing to crime with him. And whether that's sending US Citizens away because of quote unquote terrorism or like writing an op ed for their school paper, whatever it may be, they are trying to build these large facilities for enemies of the state. But not actual enemies of the state. Enemies of the Whole MAGA program and the same people who are complaining about the deep state and saying that there is a deep state that is controlling everything are doing exactly what they say the deep state does. It seems to be the people who are the most upset about the supposed deep state who do the deep state shit. That's my take and that is my truth.
- [05:45]
Tim Miller
That's a good take, Cam. That's good. We can get you into the takes feed. I think that your insight there about how Trump is looking for other people to crime with him. What in the fuck? I think it was just an earthquake. Think an earthquake is happening right now.
- [06:02]
Cameron Caskey
I think you're making an excuse to not give a take because my take was better.
- [06:05]
Tim Miller
An earthquake is really happening right now and I'm on the eighth floor. This is, this is insane. It's still earthquaking. Wow.
- [06:14]
Cameron Caskey
And now a word from our sponsors.
- [06:17]
Tim Miller
Where were we? We just had an earthquake intervention here. So, you know the things. The natural world is sending us some messages as well out here in California.
- [06:26]
Cameron Caskey
But there is an above 50% chance that Tim is going to live to the end of this recording.
- [06:32]
Tim Miller
I hope so. Or I just had a really good time at Coachella and that wasn't an earthquake, but I just, I'm having some, some, some tremors on my own. I don't know, we'll see one or the other. We'll, we'll, we'll get the details after.
- [06:43]
Cameron Caskey
Before we get back into the fascism, one quick question for you. When you were at Coachella, were there Tim Miller fans like, coming up to you and being like, oh my God, dude, I love your show.
- [06:53]
Tim Miller
There were, yeah, had a couple of those. Not that, you know, people. I think at Coachella there are a lot of celebs around who are way more famous than me and so I think the vibes a little bit more chill on that. But there were. I did a great selfie with a couple of gays who were excited to hang out. They listened to the show and you know, I met some other folks. It was great.
- [07:12]
Cameron Caskey
What is the most uncomfortable place that you're willing to share where you have been the least happy to hear somebody say, oh, you're Tim Miller.
- [07:23]
Tim Miller
Definitely, definitely the gay bar after like 1am I'm not really looking for, for small talk. You know, sometimes I'm, you know, sometimes I'm partying a little bit at the gay bar and I'd like to be able to party in peace. But I love everybody. It's nice. I'm not that. Not famous enough to have it be annoying, like it's great. I love everybody. So you can say hi to me in the airport. Just if it's like after 1am Maybe don't say hi to me. But before 1am it's great.
- [07:50]
Cameron Caskey
FY pods, go approach Tim, go talk to him, especially while he's with people.
- [07:54]
Tim Miller
I love humans. I want to get back to the thing that I was observing that your insight that was correct, which was Trump vibing with other people that are willing to do crimes, go around the law and if you kind of just look at who our allies are now in the world, it's like really, that is it across the board. It's MBS in Saudi Arabia, you know, who chopped up a journalist. It is Bukele in El Salvador, it's Orban. Right? Like these, this is like the crew that we're rolling with now. And Trump wants to reorient the world to have our allies be just the people that are willing to kind of ride shotgun with him on the crime in game. And, and I'm, I'm pretty concerned about the fact that that is going to.
- [08:44]
Cameron Caskey
Have some staying power and it's just a question of who's going to stand up against it. Right. So many people don't care. So many people don't give a shit. And I think this immigration nightmare is a great way to show us how, how little people care. And this brings to mind conversations with your friends and when it is and is not appropriate to talk about politics because when you see things like people getting disappeared for using their first amendment rights, at what point is this something that we should talk to our friends about? Because I think a lot of people live blissfully unburdened by the state of the world. A lot of people say, oh, I don't watch the news, I don't watch the news. You meet so many people who say, who say like, oh, I didn't hear about that. Yeah, I, I, I just can't do the news anymore. And you understand it because the news is really hard to watch. But at some point there we must reach a point where it's like, no, you should talk to your friends about this and say, hey, do you know that this is going on? You know, do you know that this is happening in our country? Because the videos you see of what ICE is doing to people, breaking people's car windows to unlock the door, this looks like it's from another fucking country. This is not the United States. And a lot of people have sort of just given themselves a pass to not have to think about it. And it's really tough and you have to start conversations.
- [10:04]
Tim Miller
You know, Cam, it's a good timing for this question because I think the answer, like, might be today. I just. This, this press conference in the Oval Office, like, okay, it was very bad and dangerous. And I've been ranting about it, what we've done to the Venezuelans and to Kilmar Garcia, who's from El Salvador, and like disappeared these people. They're NC code. But throughout this time, the courts were siding against the administration, right? So there's this like, okay, well maybe this will be resolved, right? Like The Supreme Court ruled 90 this Supreme Court ruled 9, 0 that they had to facilitate Abrego Garcia's return. And so, you know, like, maybe you could rationalize being like, okay, it doesn't feel like America, but let's see if the system holds. Like, the system isn't holding. The system isn't holding and people are getting wrongfully sent to a foreign prison. And I don't know that it's like going to be your friends who are the next people going to the prison, but it's certainly enough time to get people fucking freaked out about it. Because I do think that we have passed an inflection point today given the fact that they're just defying the Supreme Court order.
- [11:18]
Cameron Caskey
But it all goes back to the same thing as the tariffs, which is, oh, it'll figure itself out. That's what I got from all my other Gen Zs. And everybody was asking me, what are the Gen Z's saying about the tariffs? They were like, you know what? If I don't waste the mental and spiritual energy worrying about this, I'm sure it'll be fine at some point. And I totally am susceptible to feelings like this. When I see shit that's dark enough, my brain tells me, look away, you are a white CIS man in America. Ultimately you'll be fine. You know, like, you can worry about the minorities and the women and the immigrants and stuff like that. You can, you can spend your time hurting for them, but you're going to be okay. Like, I do get that feeling. But the elixir to that ignorance is talking to people in your day to day life. Because I think a lot of the folks who would listen to something like, like an FY podcast and a lot of the folks who would follow you or me on social media, they might not be aware of just how big the population of people who just don't care at all is, right? We think of the folks who are on the side of protecting the immigrants and the first Amendment and there are the folks who are on the MAGA side. But in between those two things is this giant fucking like base of people who don't even fucking know that it's happening in the first place. And it's really alarming.
- [12:42]
Tim Miller
Yeah, this is, well, you know, this is such a serious thing. I hate to like make it just about politics, but this is kind of the Democrats big political challenge is like reaching those people. And so you have some thoughts about what they've been, what they've been up to lately, who's, who's been out there reaching the Volk.
- [12:58]
Cameron Caskey
Yeah, you've got 20,000 people in Tucson, 34,000 people in Denver, 20,000 people in Salt Lake, 36,000 in Los Angeles. What are those big numbers? Those are the people showing up to watch Bernie Sanders and AOC talk about the oligarchy. And I am watching left wing leaders in this country gain so much popularity. I'm watching economic populist messaging more popular than ever. And that's really saying something because economic populist messaging has always been really huge. I mean, James Carville in between his fucking Bing Crosby records has said it's about the economy and the left is talking about the economy and Trump is talking about the economy. And in the center they're doing everything they can to avoid that sort of economic populism. And they are talking about shit like identity politics that makes us look like a bunch of assholes. So I'm wondering, Tim, as somebody who is, you know, a moderate political, who has his own opinions, not dogmatic, whatever, do you think the moderates are going to see the popularity of the left right now and say this is how we win? Or do you think they're going to do what they did in 2020 and say we need to disrupt this as aggressively as possible?
- [14:13]
Tim Miller
You know. Well, look, I mean, obviously there'll be a campaign. Well, maybe not obviously actually anymore in this country, but likely to say, obviously likely there'll be a campaign in 2028. And so, you know, there'll be some more left candidate and some more center candidate and they'll go after each other. I don't know sometimes that my, my new experience being part of the broader Democratic coalition. There's some cultural things that I find like a change in the Republican primaries. It's kind of like no hard feelings, bro. Like everybody gets the game. Like, you know, you're, you know, Trump's going to call him Ron Desanctimonious. And like, you know, you're not going to, you know, cry in your fucking Cheerios about it and vice versa. The Democrats, like, what was that? What the fuck is that? May I have your attention, please? Holy shit. May I have your attention please? We have just experienced an earthquake.
- [15:11]
Cameron Caskey
Be prepared for any aftershocks.
- [15:14]
Tim Miller
The staff is currently investigating if evacuations.
- [15:17]
Cameron Caskey
Are needed, but as of right now.
- [15:19]
Tim Miller
No evacuation is advised.
- [15:22]
Cameron Caskey
Okay, back to podcasting.
- [15:24]
Tim Miller
What an exciting FY pod. Well, we still have to wait. What an exciting fypod that was. 6.7 earthquake. Wow. Holy shit. So like, you know, I didn't even think that the Bernie and Hillary or Bernie and Biden campaigns were particularly like, bad, you know, bad. I do think that there's a lot of like some people on the left or from the Bernie world, they're like, the DNC did everything to tear us down. It's like, I don't know. Not really. Actually. That was just called a campaign and Bernie ran a really great campaign, but just lost. But anyway, I think that you are seeing the popularity of it for sure. I think that people in the center like, tariffs is a huge gift for them to talk about the economy in a way that is focused on people's economic pain but is not tied to the stupid far left parts of the economic populism and can be pro free trade. Well, I mean, some of the far left, like the tariffs. I'm going to have an exchange with Chris D'Aluzio, who's. Who's more of like an economic populist type guy from Western Pennsylvania. We'll have him on the daily pod tomorrow. And I want to hashes out with him because he was kind of like doing like, well, some tariffs are good. And you know that I'm Chris Delusero. No, I will not tell him that. That's kind of rude. The, you know, and really I kind of have to make up for it because I kind of sent a mean tweet about him. And so now we're going to. We're going to make up. And this is how, you know, grownups act like we're going to hash it out ourselves. But that said, like, I don't like some of the far left protectionist stuff. I mean, some of like the, like, we now we're going to really bore people. I can't believe this is a Gen Z pod. But the, you know, interest that we're paying on our debt is really going to be a big fucking problem. And if you want people to be able to get their, you know, health services in the future, we probably need to, like, spend less money, not more money, on certain things. So, you know, there are going to be things that I get crossways with Bernie and AOC on, on that. But, like, spiritually, they're in the right place. Like, getting people excited, giving no quarter to Trump, you know, talking about the wealth inequality in this country. Like, all of that is good shit. And I feel like anybody could really, like, honestly, Mark Cuban could do that. Like, a centrist Dem could do it and not have to, like, embrace every single Green New Deal policy or whatever. It's just they haven't tended to.
- [17:43]
Cameron Caskey
Here's the thing, the system doesn't work is messaging that resonates with people telling them the system's broken and we need to turn it around and make it work for you. That works. And moderate Democrats exist to say, no, no, no, no, here's why. The system has been good and will continue to be good. And obviously it's going to be different now that Trump has completely dismantled the system. And moderates might run on a restoration of that system, but they'll be running on the restoration of a system that nobody thinks was working for them. So I can see such a clear path for populists like Bernie and AOC to make it into office, saying it's time to flip the narrative and change the game. But, like, okay, you're Pete Buttigieg and you're saying, hey, don't you want things to be like they were in 2022? Like, I guess I just don't see how this, how there could be a moderate movement right now when Trump's election has shown us just how flaccid and useless that is.
- [18:39]
Tim Miller
I mean, I don't. I don't know. Nobody, nobody else has beaten Trump. So, you know, like, it wasn't like, like, the far left has demonstrated a huge electoral success.
- [18:51]
Cameron Caskey
Trump has never purple states. Trump has never beat the far left. Only the Democrats have beat the far left from within.
- [18:56]
Tim Miller
Well, but this is. They haven't won themselves. And, like, they haven't. You know, are there any examples of far left candidates winning in swing states? Like, not really. Like, Gretchen Whitmer, Shapiro, Tony Evers, like, look at the states you need to win. But Ossoff, Warnock, like, none of these people are from Mark Kelly in Arizona. Like, none of these people are far. Are far left. Like, they were winning in New York and Vermont. So, anyway, I don't want to salt their game because I think it's good and I agree with your political analysis that it is smart politics to be about wanting to fight the system. I just like, I don't agree with your assessment as this is my old, this is my conservative impulse coming out. But I don't know, man, America, we lifted a lot of people out of poverty. We had economic success beyond anybody's imagination. If you live, if you're a lower middle class person in America, you have air conditioning and a TV and a pretty good life globally. I just think that saying that the system is so broken that we need to radically change it risks. We risk replacing the current system with a worse system. That said, I realize that that is about as popular politics as like, you know, dropping turds on people's lawn. So I'm open to other. I think there are other different ways to kind of channel the reform energy and it's just that like AOC is just kind of the one that's got it figured out at the moment.
- [20:27]
Cameron Caskey
Speaking of your conservative instincts, what is the conversation within conservative circles about how the homeless population looked in the United States before Reagan's presidency and then how it just coincidentally during the Reagan years shot up from being almost a non issue to this giant homeless. Does everybody say, like, oh, isn't it crazy that everybody decided to be homeless right around when Reagan was president and destroyed public housing?
- [20:55]
Tim Miller
I think that what they would say to you, Cameron, is that the worst homelessness crisis in America is in California, which has been run by Democrats for 25 years and they should probably do something to figure it out.
- [21:08]
Cameron Caskey
Hey, that's where Ronald Reagan is from.
- [21:10]
Tim Miller
The homeless crisis is not that bad actually in Texas or Oklahoma. So, you know, I mean, really, this is, this is not my conservative thing. Now I get to put on my yimby hat. Cameron, you're like hitting all my pleasure centers right now. Like, the problem in this case is really bipartisan and it's that we haven't built enough fucking houses. No, that's kind of complicated. It's like, oh, we have a lot of homeless people. What do we think the solution to that is? Maybe more homes. That might be something to consider.
- [21:35]
Cameron Caskey
It's very strange. One more thing in terms of your conservative tendencies is I just found out that you were comms director for the Jeb Bush campaign. I am. I started the show. Well, I never googled you before we started this show.
- [21:50]
Tim Miller
I think probably you should have googled me. That was probably a mistake.
- [21:53]
Cameron Caskey
Well, okay, here's the origin of FYpod for those of you who don't know which is everyone. I was trying to show my friend a video of my closest friend Teddy Goff speaking. And I type Teddy Golf into YouTube and I see, oh, Tim Miller has Teddy Golf on to talk about the dnc. And I watch the video and I'm like, wow, Tim Miller. I think I follow him on Instagram. This guy is getting the best out of Teddy. Like, this is the most fun I've ever seen. Teddy, this is awesome. So I DM Tim. I'm like, hey, let's do an episode that's you and me just like harassing Teddy for the, for the whole audience. And it ended up turning into me being a guest on the Bulwark podcast. And then Fypod was born. But during this whole process, I never actually looked Tim up. I just knew I followed him on Instagram. But then this is a very.
- [22:42]
Tim Miller
This is very appropriate for the Gen Z podcast. This is a very Gen Z situation where you're just a casual Instagram. Instagram oomph. We're just casual Instagram oomphs. You do not. You know nothing about me. Total chaos, impulse decision. You know, this is great. You're hitting all the stereotypes.
- [22:58]
Cameron Caskey
I trusted my heart and that. I said, you know what, Tim seems like good people. We spoke to each other, we exchanged and I was like, this guy seems like good people. But anyway, I finally googled you the other day, probably three months into our podcast, and I saw you were comms director for Jeb Bush. It's like the campaign. I didn't know you had such a cool job. This is off topic, but that's fine. What was the first meeting as comms director for the Jeb Bush campaign after please clap. When Jeb Bush told those people, please clap. Did you guys just sit and look.
- [23:33]
Tim Miller
At each other and go, oh, Tracy Morgan looked into my eyes recently and said that he could tell I was a good person from my eyes, which was a very good compliment. It was very strange, but. So you and Tracy Morgan have that in common. Jeb, the please clap meeting. I'll tell you what happened. As I was actually there for Please clap, I was in the room and it was totally fine. It was like a self deprecating joke he was making. I think the next president needs to be a lot quieter, but send a signal that we're prepared to act in the national security interests of this country to get back in the business of creating a more peaceful world. Please clap. Nobody in the room room thought it was weird at all. Nobody mentioned it. Ashley Parker over at the Atlantic, she Was my friend but I will never forgive. Sent the video and worded it in a way that made it seem very sad and it took off. Now everybody knows about it, you know about it, casuals know about it. And mostly the meeting after it was me yelling at Ashley, being like, why in the fuck did you do me this dirty? We're already losing this goddamn campaign. Could you just let this campaign die in peace? You could you just let us rest, you know, without like kicking dirt on us on the way down? And, you know, she kind of half apologized and chuckled and I don't really recall. I actually, I mostly recall rage towards Ashley. Loving rage. And I don't really even. I don't recall what even talking to Jeb about it after. I guess I would have had to, but I don't.
- [25:11]
Cameron Caskey
Guys have like an action meeting post the popularity of low energy Jeb. Because here's what I'm thinking. You worked with Romney, right? And you were working for low energy Jeb. And what I'm thinking is if I was working for low energy Jeb, I would have done a photo shoot of Jeb lifting weights like Paul Ryan. Was there ever a meeting where you guys were like, hey, here's an energy thing we're going to do with the Jeb. We're going to. We're going to, you know, have him do a boxing class and take a video of it.
- [25:42]
Tim Miller
Yeah, there were those meetings, believe it or not. This is how stupid campaigns are sometimes. I think that there was a. I think there was an idea to do a running video with him because he runs where he would, like, run and talk to the camera. I can't really remember the details on it. I'd have to. I'd have to ask the digital gal. She would remember. So there was that, you know, he started cussing a little bit during later in the campaign, you know, show a little bit of oomph. But no, I mean, honestly, the thing that I most remember from an earnest point, because I love Jeb, was like, I had a conversation with him on the plane once where I was just like, look, man, if the people want Trump, like, there's literally nothing you can do. Like, maybe you should have punched him in the face. That might have been the one thing that you could do. But, like, his whole aura was so opposite of Trump's, you know, and that. And it's like, it's not like, oh, if I do a boxing video or if I start, you know, you know, punching up my messaging, like, people are going to want Jeff, you Know what I mean? Like, they're so different that I wanted to give him just a little bit of comfort that he could just be himself. I wanted him to be the best Jeb he could be.
- [26:55]
Cameron Caskey
Are you guys on cool enough terms that we could see if we could get him on FY pod? And for those of you who listen to our weekend segment, we do something called Gen Z News, where our great producer Sebastian gathers a bunch of headlines about Gen Z and we react to them. I would love to do Gen Z News with Jeb.
- [27:12]
Tim Miller
I am on good terms with him. I don't know if he would want to do that, but maybe I'll suggest at least he send us a boomer mailbag. Send us a question from a boomer.
- [27:20]
Cameron Caskey
Well, you could say, look, I have a public school student from Florida. He is one of the children who got left behind. You can interact with that live. You can. Consequences of your own actions.
- [27:30]
Tim Miller
You're thriving. You're thriving, Cameron, thanks to the Florida school system. What a great fypod earthquake happened here. We saw that live. So, you know, that's fun. We now have this experience together. Now you've googled me. And we have this earthquake bonding experience together. So that's great.
- [27:46]
Cameron Caskey
Thank you everybody for tuning in. And tune in this weekend for not only a great interview with a Gen Z congressional candidate, we are also going to be doing a relay race video where me, Tim and Jeb are going to do that thing where you run and you tie your legs. What's it called? Three legged race.
- [28:01]
Tim Miller
Three legged race. Oh, that would be so fun.
- [28:04]
Cameron Caskey
See y'all soon.