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- [00:00]
Ryan Seacrest
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- [00:25]
Unknown
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- [00:52]
Cameron Caskey
Hi, this is Cameron Caskey.
- [00:53]
Tim Miller
And I'm Tim Miller. And this is FY Pod. It is the weekend show. So we have our guest coming up here. She's running for Congress. She does some spicy congressional TikTok videos and YouTube videos. I'm pumped to talk to her. It's Kat. We'll ask her how to pronounce her last name when she comes on. But first we want to. Unfortunately, we had to have a little bonus segment here at the top because there was yet another mass shooting in Florida yesterday at Florida State University. At least a couple of are dead and others injured. And Cam sent our little fypod chain a text about how there were freshmen at his high school when the Parkland shooting happened who are now seniors at Florida State. So it is the second that they've experienced. So I wanted to give you a chance to kind of talk about that before we get to the guest.
- [01:50]
Cameron Caskey
Yeah, so there's this thing that happens when you're in Florida or the United States of America where sometimes a lot of people just get shot. And there was a shooting at FSU yesterday. We don't know too much other than it seems as though this was right wing violence. What we've learned about the shooter, about his experience with other students at Florida State University, his mother a sheriff's deputy. And it's another one of those shootings not unlike the Parkland shooting, where every new piece of information we learn about the person who did it tells us that this is something we could have seen a mile away and this is something that could have been prevented with certain laws that the state of Florida actively goes out of their way to prevent from passing. Right. So this was an instance where safe storage could have prevented the shooting. This was, this appears to have been his mother's gun. And there is no safe storage in Florida. And people like Ron Desanctimonious and everybody else over there is going to get in the way of that. But, you know, whenever there's a mass shooting, I get a lot of text messages from people saying, hey, how you doing? Just checking on you. Everything all right? And I'm sort of like, yeah, I'm fine. Like, I wasn't there. I'm in New York City right now, you know. But I think it affects everybody in a very interesting way. And I find myself wondering if they're texting me to check on me or if they're texting me because they want to feel a little bit better. That make any sense, Tim?
- [03:32]
Tim Miller
For sure. I wonder about that. Right. Because I think about myself in that situation and it's like, on the one hand, you want to be like, demonstrate empathy. On the other, stand. On the other hand, you have feelings that you're trying to deal with, and it's like, are you projecting your own anxiety under the other person or, you know, in the. In the guise of caring about them? And I don't really know the answer to that, I guess. I don't know. I've never been in your shoes. What would be. What is useful?
- [04:05]
Cameron Caskey
Yeah, it's complicated. It's like.
- [04:06]
Tim Miller
Because if nobody texted you, you'd probably feel like, well, I guess. Guess it's over now. I guess we've hit the eight year statute of limitations on. When I get texts about mass shootings.
- [04:16]
Cameron Caskey
Yeah. It's a similar thing I experience when, like, a friend of mine has a grandparent pass away. It's like, my grandfather died last year and it was devastating to me and it absolutely tore my world apart and it really fucked me up. But sometimes when I see somebody post about their dead grandparent and I'm about to text, hey, I'm so sorry that your grandparent died, I stop myself because I'm like, they're going to know that I don't actually care. Like, they're going to. Because that's what grandparents do, right? They die. Like when people texted me about my grandpa dying, I was like, thanks, but, like, you don't know what I lost. You don't understand what this meant to me. Because we all know, like, grandparents tend to die. So when I see somebody's grandfather, I'm like, okay, well, you know, that is what happens. Right? So I think it's sort of this mixture when people text me about this type of thing, I think there's just three levels to it. There's like, they're really checking on me. I want to make sure I'm okay. Or they're projecting and they just want to feel like They're a good person for checking in. And also they're confused and they're hoping that I might be able to offer some sort of clarity to them. You know, they have a lot of questions about what's going on. They think that texting somebody who they closely associate with this type of thing is going to help it make more sense for them. And I think it's all three of those things to varying degrees, depending on who you're talking to. And I get it. You know, there was a young woman who was at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School with me during the shooting in 2018, and she texted me, hey, thinking of you. And in my head I'm like, okay, you know better than anybody that, like, we were in the same shooting. Like, why are you checking in on me? Like, just because I am one of the dumb assholes who went on TV to talk about it doesn't mean that I'm more emotionally affected by this than you are. But I think she just was, like, looking to someone who does kind of put themselves out and looking to someone who has assumed something of a leadership position and hoping that there might be some sort of sense that we could make of all of this. But all this is to say it's important for us not to forget that if this shooter was trans or a registered Democrat or a person of color, the right will be talking about this shooting for weeks to come. But it appears this shooting was a white, young conservative. There had been some quotes coming from classmates who had been in political clubs and who had seen him talk about it. And they said that he had said some very inflammatory things that go, quote, beyond conservatism, things about multiculturalism and how communism is ruining America. Seems as though this shooter is the type of 4chan freak that does these types of things. The type of 4chan freak who shot up my high school. And because of that, I don't think the right's going to be talking about it for very long.
- [07:17]
Tim Miller
Yeah, I kind of. I don't know what you think about this, but part of me kind of just hates the race to, like, figure out what this fucking person wrote on Instagram three years ago about, like, politics or, like, what this person's identity is discussion after these sorts of things. Because, like, you know, I mean, like, there are people, like, obviously there are people that have mental health issues that have a, like, a wide variety of political views. There are people that, like, are motivated to violence by politics. Right? Like, and those are like, two different kind of things, right? Like People that, like, somebody that got like, really, you know, obviously it's very important if somebody got really like obsessed with white replacement theory and they were inspired by the New Zealand shooter or whatever. Like, to me, that's like, kind of, that's important to know because that's then law enforcement's job to start trying to sniff out those kind of folks. Like, the other side of this, to me, kind of feels just like people are desperate for something to grab onto because they don't think that there's any other solutions. Right. And to me, that's the frustrating part about this, because you mentioned the safe storage thing. It's frustrating to me that there is that we would go to identity questions over practical questions. Right. I was yelling at. There was Mike Lee, the senator from Utah, tweeted the other day about how he thinks that the Trump assassination was an inside job. And it's like, this is the kind of thing that some fucking asshole senator falls back on because you can't be like, no, actually what happened is a fucking crazed kid like, was able to get a thousand rounds at the, at the fucking REI or wherever he went the day that he tried to kill the President, and that there wasn't any issues with that. Like, a 19 year old can get a thousand rounds of bullets. Like, it feels like that was the issue here, not some secret thing, but, like, you know, it doesn't. That. Do you feel like, just too beaten down about that to even like too hopeless on, on gun, on, like actual solutions or. I don't know. How do you, how do you.
- [09:21]
Cameron Caskey
Well, I think there's definitely people trying to play it as a team sport and say, like, ooh, when this terrible thing happens in this country, that one person does, you know, who, who can we pin it on? Right? What team can we say did this? But yeah, I think you kind of alluded to this. There's also a degree to which it's about identifying motive because that is how you get to the bottom of cases like this. So, you know, when the shooter from my high school was carving swastikas into desks, right? And using certain slurs and using this type of inflammatory language, once we're able to really observe these patterns of behavior, it becomes easier to prevent these sorts of things, is what I say. And yet, you know, now Trump is. Trump has already gotten rid of the bipartisan school safety board and law enforcement who we, who Republicans like, point to when it comes to stopping these shootings, when they say, oh, the way to stop these shootings is stronger Law enforcement stuff, they don't actually do a very good job tracking and preventing these things. So I guess there's no use, right, talking about the white replacement theory motivations of guys like this, because at the end of the day, if law enforcement sees you being racist or, you know, inflammatory far right, they'll actually be like, hey, what's up, man? Good to see you. Me too. So I don't know what to do other than look at the situation for what it is and say, you know what? This does seem like a situation where a cop's child accessed a gun. A cop's child who had been known to say white supremacist things and killed a bunch of people. It's hard not to associate the white supremacism with the violence, because white supremacy and violence tend to go hand in hand historically.
- [11:10]
Tim Miller
One more thing before you just on, like, the actual politics, like, is not the answer to do politics again. I know that you kind of did that with March for Our Lives, and maybe it's sense of it's somebody else's chance to do politics, but I went to a Matt Gaetz event at a gun show and the Florida Panhandle because it's only a couple hours from my house. I just wanted to write an article about it. I used an excuse to go to the beach, and it was so alarming.
- [11:34]
Cameron Caskey
The beaches in Pensacola are beautiful.
- [11:37]
Tim Miller
They are beautiful. It was so alarming at this event. Kyle Rittenhouse was there and whoever the local state senator is now that Gates went to Congress. Well, now he's a competitor in the podcast space. But anyway, this was a year or two ago, and it was so alarming that, like.
- [11:52]
Cameron Caskey
Wait, I'm sorry, did you say he's a competitor in the podcast space?
- [11:55]
Tim Miller
Yeah, you know, he's on Congress and he failed. He failed his job becoming attorney general, and now he's a competitor getting lower ratings than we are. Anyway, all of the speeches were about how they need constitutional carry now and how they need to roll back the laws that Rick Scott passed after Parkland. Right. And to me, like, that is insane. And is that. Are we sure that in Florida, like, this cannot be a useful political cudgel again? To just be like, these extremist freaks, like, don't want people to have to lock up their gun. They want 18 year olds to have unlimited access to firearms. Like, I really don't think the median voter, like, wants that. And can't it be a political issue again? Or are you just, like, now, we tried that, and I don't know, I.
- [12:43]
Cameron Caskey
Think at this point, extremist freak is like something that a Florida congressional candidate would put on their campaign poster. Like, I actually think somebody. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a new sort of like Tea Party in Florida called the Extremist Freaks. But I don't know. I think that it is very crazy seeing people on the right advocate for students to be carrying on campus. They want students to carry. They think that shootings like this could be prevented by college students carrying guns. Meanwhile, we're also sending ICE to disappear college students.
- [13:19]
Tim Miller
So what would happen if they tried to disappear a college student that was exercising their constitutional carry right and that student killed the ICE officer? I was wondering which side they be on on that one. That would be tough.
- [13:28]
Cameron Caskey
It is confusing, this, this first and Second Amendment. It's almost, you know, it's crazy that we sort of had those two things down for a couple centuries, give or take, you know, and now everything's getting a little confusing. I don't know. I think that the response to this shooting would be a bit more noticeable and I think it'll be something to follow if this was not right wing violence. But since this is a shooter who has expressed white supremacist views, he's been quoted in the school paper speaking negatively about student protesters against Trump. It seems as though the Republicans are done with this and they're going to focus on Chris Van Hollen drinking water or that they're calling, I guess a margarita. So.
- [14:15]
Tim Miller
All right. Well, Cameron, you're never uplifting in these topics, but I guess it's supposed to be my job to do that, but I'm not really doing anything.
- [14:22]
Cameron Caskey
Listen, everybody, if your child survives a mass shooting, God forbid they have to be one in the first place, let them know that one day they can either be the vice chair of the DNC spending $20 million to unseat Democrats, or a podcast co host. And not even the popular one. The podcast co host who's like the hanger on.
- [14:47]
Tim Miller
You're going to be the popular one soon enough. Much love to the families of those of everybody at Florida State, but obviously those who who were victimized by the shooting. And we are going to be back with Kat and she's going to tell us how to pronounce her name and she's going to tell us about her campaign for Congress and we're going to do Boomer, Mailbag and everything else. So stick around for that step into.
- [15:10]
Unknown
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- [15:41]
Tim Miller
All right, y'all. We are back with Kat Abu Ghazali. I've been practicing that during the break. And this is FY Pod. Kat. What's up?
- [15:51]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Not much. What's up with y'all? How's it going?
- [15:53]
Tim Miller
We're hanging. We're hanging. You know, we just discussed a school shooting, so we decided to lighten it up a little bit. We're gonna. We start these things. We wanna do it, like, first date style, you know, like, you tell us what's happening with you and I noticed I did some googling and, like, we have a little bit in common. You were also a Republican teen who went to George Washington. Raise high.
- [16:13]
Kat Abu Ghazali
I didn't know that you went to gw. I did raise high.
- [16:16]
Tim Miller
I did raise high. We are the Colonials then. And we've changed our name to the Revolutionaries because the woke really seem to understand the Colonials and the Revolutionaries are the same people. So I don't really understand the change.
- [16:27]
Kat Abu Ghazali
I was a big fan. This was after I went. But I did see a flyer when I was on campus, coincidentally, and someone wanted to change it to the Lobotomist because the first ice pick lobotomy was at gw. And I was like, that's. That's fucking sick. We should do that.
- [16:41]
Tim Miller
That's sick. We should have done that. I'm so annoyed with the change. So, anyway, tell us about Republican Teen. You.
- [16:47]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Oh, my God. Yeah. Republican Teen. Me. She. She was just constantly trying to justify her beliefs to herself in the framework that she understood the world. My grandmother was a GOP operative. She, like, that was just the reality. We were Reagan Republicans, and we were very Reagan Republican. I started my. What is it? Young American, the Reagan Club, the YAF chapter at my high school. I was the president. Yeah. Yeah. I.
- [17:23]
Tim Miller
You were even dorkier than me.
- [17:25]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Oh, my God.
- [17:26]
Tim Miller
Yeah.
- [17:26]
Kat Abu Ghazali
I had a book of Robert's Rules of Order that I got for my birthday when I was seven. I'm a huge nerd.
- [17:34]
Tim Miller
Wow.
- [17:34]
Kat Abu Ghazali
It's mortifying.
- [17:35]
Tim Miller
Stunned Cameron into silence.
- [17:37]
Cameron Caskey
Well, no, I'm just thinking like, man, just thinking about young Tim, you know, looking for his place in the world, trying to figure out why he isn't into girls, why he doesn't like girls that much. Just seeing a group of kids, kids celebrating the great Gipper Ronald Reagan himself. Tim, I wish I could give you something like that. I wish I could give teen Tim, somebody like Kat to lead the way.
- [18:01]
Kat Abu Ghazali
We would have been, like, looking at our views because there was a lot of it, because, like, my parents didn't raise me like a Christian nationalist or anything. They were very empowering. The book I read most, like the Children's way I read most, was A Is for Abigail by Liz Cheney, which, like, went through all these famous American women and I.
- [18:21]
Tim Miller
So like Liz or Lynn Chaney. Was that a Liz?
- [18:24]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Liz Cheney.
- [18:24]
Tim Miller
Liz Cheney, yeah.
- [18:25]
Kat Abu Ghazali
It was a very cute book, though. Very good.
- [18:27]
Tim Miller
I'd have to get that for Toulouse. I didn't even. I wasn't familiar with A.
- [18:30]
Kat Abu Ghazali
As for Abigail, yeah, it goes A to Z. Like all these famous American women. It's very cute and educational. And by the time Trump came around, I had to be justifying my staunch feminist beliefs with everything else. And I was like, oh, maybe, maybe not. But there is that picture. I'm not sure if you've seen it with a GOP elephant sticker on my laptop that has a bow and like all these other Republican stickers. And then people are saying that to say that I'm a GOP plant now.
- [19:03]
Cameron Caskey
Woman after Tim Miller's heart.
- [19:05]
Tim Miller
Oh, my God, I'm blushing right now. Are your parents. How are your parents now? Were they. Is that an okay thing to talk about? Or they. Were they.
- [19:14]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Oh, yeah, yeah. None of them voted for Trump. Like, neither of them voted for Trump. When that man came on the scene, we were like, I do not fuck with this. No, thank you.
- [19:21]
Tim Miller
Everybody's out. So they're bulwark. You have bulwark parents.
- [19:23]
Kat Abu Ghazali
I have bulwark parents. My mom now is more like a New Republic parent, but. Yeah, yeah, honestly. But she's like, she's gotten so progressive. It's been fascinating watching the progression because there's a lot of, you know, reformed Republicans that are that, like, my dad is more moderate and my mom is, like, just full on progressive. She's like, let's fucking go. It's great.
- [19:49]
Tim Miller
What's up, dad?
- [19:50]
Kat Abu Ghazali
I'm proud of both of them. It's hard to admit that you're wrong and you believed a bunch of lies.
- [19:54]
Tim Miller
Do you have any Republican teen views that you're. That you Maintain. Do you have, like, or, I don't know, anything, any writers that you still like or any, like, little vibes about it? You may.
- [20:08]
Cameron Caskey
Do you still have your copy of the Fountainhead?
- [20:10]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Yeah, I actually submitted an essay to an Ayn Rand essay contest and won like $500 for that in high school. I do have, like, my Republican memorabilia from my grandma. I have my Bush Beanie baby, my Bush inaugural Beanie Baby somewhere around here.
- [20:29]
Tim Miller
But there's not one, like, sneaky view. There's not one, like, you kind of secretly don't like.
- [20:34]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Obviously, I think that women shouldn't have rights, but besides.
- [20:39]
Cameron Caskey
Besides that these days, that one is kind of bipartisan.
- [20:43]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Oh, right. Yeah, that's. That's for sure. That's for sure.
- [20:45]
Tim Miller
But no.
- [20:45]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Do you have one that. That. I can't think of one right now. Do you have one?
- [20:49]
Tim Miller
Me have one? Yeah, dude, I do.
- [20:52]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Sorry, that was a bad question.
- [20:53]
Tim Miller
I do still like cutting red tape. That's me. I think that we'll talk about the debt later. I've got some concerns about your proposals about the debt. And, you know, America should be a land of freedom and opportunity. That's still. I still like that you got to feel that way, right?
- [21:08]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Oh, yeah. I mean, like milk and honey. I have tons of, like, they're. I think I just consider them, like, common sense tendencies, but are rooted in, like, the libertarianism that my grandmother, you know, encouraged. And there you go.
- [21:24]
Tim Miller
What's your libertarian view? Besides women's bodies? Like, what is your libertarian view? You got to live.
- [21:29]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Oh, my God. Just like, leave everyone alone. If you're not hurting anyone, there's no problem with that. I just want everyone to be able to do their thing, but also be able to exist without having their entire life force sucked out by corporations.
- [21:43]
Tim Miller
Oh, okay. Went back. Lived there at the end of the answer, but it was live love.
- [21:47]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Let's go.
- [21:49]
Cameron Caskey
Wait, it's liberty. Wait, so it's. It's. What about. What about being against corporations is anti libertarian. Seems like the libertarian.
- [21:58]
Kat Abu Ghazali
We should let corporations run rampant over the populace.
- [22:01]
Tim Miller
Was like, corporations are people, my friend.
- [22:04]
Cameron Caskey
Right.
- [22:04]
Tim Miller
Remember that?
- [22:05]
Cameron Caskey
Hey, Citizens United. That was. That's a throwback to an old FY pod episode.
- [22:12]
Tim Miller
We should probably talk about your campaign. This is going to be Cameron's. I guess I'll run the show. So you're running for Congress? I guess. Tell us why.
- [22:20]
Kat Abu Ghazali
I'm running in Illinois's 9th district. And I'm running because I just got sick of watching Democrats do nothing to Trump. Just let him Steamroll the country, and we can't just keep waiting around for someone else to do things. I wanted to make some change instead of hoping for it. You know, we're all we've got, and there are changes I want to see in the world. I think there's a different way we can do politics, and so I'm trying to do that.
- [22:49]
Cameron Caskey
And what is the different way?
- [22:51]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Do we think a big thing is how we spend our money in campaigns and how we spend our money as a party. Both parties, like, both everyone should be doing this. In my opinion, instead of using the same tactics from, like, 2005, we need to ditch the old playbook and adapt to, you know, the current day. So we are spending most of our money on mutual aid and community outreach for all of our events. They're all accessible, no matter your income. You don't need to drop several thousand for a plate. Our first event, for instance, you brought a box of pads or tampons, and those are donated to Chicago's Period Collective because those are expensive and there are lots of people who can't afford. All of our events will just have a small material donation that anyone can get.
- [23:38]
Tim Miller
There's no cat photo line.
- [23:42]
Kat Abu Ghazali
No photo line.
- [23:43]
Tim Miller
Yeah. That's how we do it at Republican events. You know, you pay $1,000 to get in.
- [23:49]
Kat Abu Ghazali
As a child at Republican events, you.
- [23:51]
Tim Miller
Get a photo, you pay two grand. And I think you should be charging the, like, young Maga guys that want to have a selfie with you. Yeah, you should charge them.
- [24:00]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Oh, God. Maybe. Maybe in my alternate universe, Grifter era, but for this one, it's, you know, just. We're just trying to make things as accessible as possible. Trump is creating a lot of gaps in people's material needs, and so we want to be cutting checks to local orgs. Our events are going to be fun and, you know, accessible, like I said, but not just things you associate with politics. We want to do concerts this summer, standup events. Someone on our Discord was, like, hosted Mario Kart tournament, and I was like, fuck, yeah. We want to get creative with it, weird with it. Stuff you'd want to go to, even without a political name attached. One thing I'm really excited about this summer, for instance, is I'm doing a high. We're doing a high school public service grant, so a bunch of high school students will be able to apply for a check to help them do a community service project this summer. And we can also mobilize our thousand plus volunteers to help them accomplish that. It just seems like a huge waste to spend so much money on consultants that just do like a hour phone call with you a month and don't provide any, don't deliver anything else or put all of your eggs in the paid media basket when what if you could be trying to talk to people instead of constant call time. If we're just constantly fundraising and doing nothing else, it seems like a huge waste for everyone but the people involved in the political machine. So we're hoping by the end of this campaign, win or lose, our money isn't wasted. And we're hoping by the end, everyone in this district or someone they directly know has had their lives improved by our efforts.
- [25:39]
Cameron Caskey
So speaking of wasting money and wasting it on consultants, you know you are the dream young person to stand up and fight right now, right? You're spunky. You've got like a twitch streamer set up. You've got bangs like you are the answer to where are the young people who are standing up and fighting in this new Trump era? And that reminds me a lot of the mission statement of leaders we deserve the PAC run by inspiring young student from Parkland, Florida, David Hogg. And they are spending $20 million to fight the old guard gerontocracy Democrats and fund candidates who are standing up against them. Are you getting any? You're not. Get what?
- [26:27]
Kat Abu Ghazali
You didn't see that. You're not sure if this is a rhetorical question.
- [26:32]
Tim Miller
It's a bit.
- [26:33]
Cameron Caskey
It's, it's okay.
- [26:34]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Thank God. Okay.
- [26:35]
Cameron Caskey
No, no, no, no. It's half of a bit. Because I had heard that, but I didn't believe it because I was like, wait a second.
- [26:41]
Kat Abu Ghazali
In the Politico piece. Which is fine. I mean, we have.
- [26:44]
Cameron Caskey
I read the Politico piece.
- [26:45]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Oh, yeah, that's totally fair. That's totally fair. Yeah.
- [26:48]
Tim Miller
Is Gen Z. He reads the tweet about the Politico piece.
- [26:51]
Kat Abu Ghazali
He reads the tweet about the Politico piece. I'm also Gen z. I know, 15.
- [26:56]
Tim Miller
Minutes late for the podcast. So, like, yeah, I get it. So whatever.
- [27:00]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Yeah. Just by the way, any, like, slowness I've had is because I took my narcolepsy meds at exactly 8:30 when Sam called me. And so they're now just kicking in. So I am as. My alarm just went off.
- [27:13]
Tim Miller
This is going to be your best interview yet.
- [27:15]
Kat Abu Ghazali
This is my best interview yet. So now I'm like, now I'm back at it.
- [27:19]
Cameron Caskey
Your wake up alarm was going off at 10 on a Friday. This is a Gen Z candidate nine.
- [27:24]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Nine. And actually I set eight alarms every morning because once again, I have narcolepsy. So the first one goes off at seven and then it just keeps going from there. But yeah, back to the leaders weekend. No money for you, no money for me. Pelosi and Chakowski are fighters we deserve. Which Sikowski. I've said this time and time again, this is like not a vendetta or referendum on her. I just think that there's a different. What the Democratic Party is doing isn't working and we have to try something different. If it was working, we wouldn't be here. But I'm fine with that, frankly. I mean we raised $400,000 in grassroots donors. We have a lot of community support. We have a lot of like this. Not like we have so many people in our discord that are just so excited to get to work and to help. I'm a lot less worried about needing to cater to establishment or what's the way I could say this? Once again, meds are kicking in as.
- [28:24]
Tim Miller
I. Washington D.C. pACs. Yeah, he does kind of dress like a Republican, I would say. David Hogg. I don't know that that means that the money is more Republican. But you know, it feels like, feels like, it feels like.
- [28:36]
Kat Abu Ghazali
To be fair, in high school I did wear pants suits sometimes because I had to go to debate tournaments. Reluctant debate kid. I loved winning J.
- [28:44]
Tim Miller
Crew critter pants. We were Republicans in high school.
- [28:48]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Brooks Brothers over here.
- [28:50]
Tim Miller
Okay.
- [28:53]
Cameron Caskey
This is so interesting to me because I've been super woke the whole time. Like when I was, when I was 7 years old and I was watching Obama win the election, I was like jumping up and down on my couch telling my autistic little brother like, God, Obama's going to win. Obama's going away. He had no idea what the fuck I was talking about. Meanwhile, now he pays taxes and he works. So I heard.
- [29:14]
Kat Abu Ghazali
That's not possible.
- [29:15]
Cameron Caskey
No, it turns out autistic people can, can actually be pretty, pretty high functioning and can come in and gut government agencies and build rockets and sire 16 bastard children. But anyway, so Kat, you're raking in grassroots money. You've got all the people behind you. You've got this exciting momentum and you have an interesting, exciting new way to run, right? Community outreach, mutual aid, all these different things. Let's say you win, right? You're going to win. You're going to win big, big time. It's going to be a landslide. What's your different way of going in and doing politics now? That you are the congresswoman for Illinois 9.
- [30:00]
Kat Abu Ghazali
I mean, I am just one person. So we can't just win a majority, but we have to have a majority of that majority to want to actually do things and not be beholden to corporate donors. As for myself, I want to expand constituent services a lot. I want to. We're going to need them even more. And this is a district that really knows what constituent services are and uses them, which is awesome. It's amazing. I was on stream yesterday and someone was like, is this kind of like, customer service? And I was like, that's exactly what this should be. And so we want to ensure that any of those gaps that Trump is creating are filled. You know, if you are on the northwestern campus and you get arrested by ice, we are at. We are going to do everything we can to locate you as soon as possible, hook you up with a lawyer, and get you back home. Additionally, I think that it's crazy that we call and, like, leave a voicemail into the void when you want to talk to your rep urgently. This. I know this seems like not important, but I personally think it is. We should be having a chat feature for our congressional offices for constituent services. It's 20, 25. People under the age of 30 hate talking on the phone. Let's do that.
- [31:10]
Tim Miller
But also, I'm older than 30. Unfortunately, talking on the phone is horrible. Please don't call me.
- [31:15]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Just have a chat feature. This is not that difficult. I mean, I'm sure there's, like, there are things that you need to do to establish that, but we should have already done this. Every party should have already done this. In terms of being different on the Hill, I mean, my expertise is fighting the far right, and I want to take that there. I. The fact that Democrats have been rolling over, that's exactly what authoritarian regimes love. They thrive when you vote for their cr. They thrive when you censure members of your party for standing up during an address. We should have had Democrats standing arm in arm in front of the Treasury Department as Elon Musk's army of little Nazi virgins marched in there and blocked it and forced them to sic police or on them, on Democrats or stand out. You have leverage. You have status. You are an elected member of Congress. Use it. Because they don't go after you first. They go after the little people. I mean, that's what we've seen with hundreds of people deported to a concentration camp in El Salvador. Those are people without status and privilege and reputations. We're seeing this with Students on college campuses, we're seeing this with federal workers that are losing their job for no goddamn reason. Do something. Because you can't. I mean, what Van Hollen just did.
- [32:41]
Tim Miller
Yes, talk about that. I was gonna ask you about that. Like, it actually does matter. All these Democrats are like, we can't do anything. We're in the minority. Nothing we do matters. And it's like one senator actually does something and we get one, and then one of the people at least gets to leave the fricking concentration camp. Not permanently yet, but you saw progress there. So talk about what you saw from Van Hollen.
- [33:00]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Yeah, I mean, Van Hollen is consistently on the right side of issues like this. I mean, he is one of the only members of Congress that has consistently been following up on Shereen Abu Akle's death and who is a reporter who was killed in the West Bank, I believe, and was an American citizen. And he really, like, he cares. And he showed that by booking a flight to El Salvador and checking in on his constituent to make sure he was alive in the first place and know the conditions of what's happening at this prison colony. And he didn't wait for party approval. He didn't wait to have a whole coalition come. He went him by himself and demanded to speak to his constituent. And he did. It happened. And it shows how untenable this reality is for Trump and Bukele because they caved. Even though Bukele posted a picture and tried to make like a photo op and said, see? Look how well fed and clothed this man is. If this hadn't happened, we would have no idea where Mr. Garcia is. It takes once again, you have status, you have reputation. People care about what happens to you. Use it. And Van Hollen did. And Democrats that don't follow his lead. That should have been the first instinct of every Democrat. Anyone who doesn't follow his lead is not only morally questionable at the very least, but they have horrible political instincts.
- [34:43]
Tim Miller
What I would like to see if Kat was in Congress and the Democrats take Congress back. The thing that's so frustrating to me, that's related to what you were talking about, is the Democrats were in charge for the last two years of Trump. I know many people might not remember this on the Hill from 18 to 2020. And Jared's Saudi money. There was never an oversight hearing about this. Think about how many oversight hearings the Republicans had about Ben GH and about all these, like, supposed Democratic controversies. Like, there was never an oversight hearing about Jared taking money from Saudi. There was Never. Like, there was very little on the Trump emoluments and, like, how much money that Trump and his family were taking. Now we're saying he's taking billions and billions more this time. So, like, talk about, like, there's also an oversight. You know, there's the constituent services role, but, you know, you are an oppo person. So there's also like an oversight role for people in Congress. Like, the Democrats seem much more reluctant than the Republicans to take advantage of.
- [35:41]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Yeah, I feel like the Democratic Party is so insistent on bipartisanship, and that's great when we all agree on the basics of morality and human dignity. I used to have this bit in Stand up where I said, you know, if half the country wants to exterminate all racial minorities and the other half of the country wants to exterminate exactly zero racial minorities, you don't just compromise and murder 50% of racial minorities. That's not how that works. That's not compromised.
- [36:06]
Tim Miller
That's a third instead.
- [36:08]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Yeah, that's also not. But we can spend the rest of this podcast debating the number two. But it's. And so that often means that they're unwilling to bring fangs out. I mean, the fact that we're not doing Benghazi esque hearings about Hegsets signal chat, I get that we're not in the majority, but this should still be. This shouldn't have been just like a week of outrage and coverage that was an actual scandal that showed how our national security is being jeopardized. It's ridiculous. And so, yeah, they should be following up on this stuff. I've had a lot of people ask me, they're like, would you impeach Trump? And there's an opportunity to. Absolutely. This man has shown time and time again that he doesn't have American interest is hard. He's, like I said, steamrolling over the country. But that is more difficult to do than, say, oversight hearings, especially if you had the majority in Congress. If there's an avenue a hundred percent, let's impeach the guy. But in the meantime, we need to be holding Republicans and our own members of Congress, our own members of the party, accountable for corruption.
- [37:28]
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- [37:53]
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- [37:58]
Cameron Caskey
You know, this is my plan. If I was Democrat leadership, right? If I was Chuck Schumer, Hakeem Jeffries, I'm not a political expert. I only went to one semester of college. But here's what I would do. I would say, okay, since we can't follow up on the signal chat, you know, since we can't focus on every week's new disaster where putting pressure on the Trump administration could work if somebody focuses enough, what we're going to do is we're going to section off these issues, we're going to find these senators and these congressmen, and we are going to say, okay, you are going to focus on this. You, you, and you are going to focus on the signal chat, and you're not going to let up. Three weeks from now, four weeks from now, five weeks from now, you're still going to be on the signal chat. You guys are going to be talking about the deportations. I, you know, if we had some sort of leadership, I feel like they could put certain people on these things and make sure that it doesn't slip away. But what's happening is that, you know, if you're a member of Congress and these disasters keep happening on top of each other, how do you maintain any focus on something that happened three weeks ago where since then there have been 12 different human rights violations that the Trump administration has actively committed? Another question I have for you, Kat, is like, other than whether or not you were alive during Franklin Delano Roosevelt's presidency, you and Schakowski. I'm trying to think of the big differences here. You know, she was born in 1944, which, for those listeners who don't know, was a very long time ago. And that's an easy difference to spot. But when it comes to things like tackling the Trump admin and the signal group chat and the deportations, what about her approach do you think needs to be done differently? How does she stand up to these things?
- [39:48]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Yeah, I mean, she has a lot of the right votes, and I'm not here to shit on her progressive record. Like I said, this isn't some vendetta, but I do think she is a part of Democratic leadership, and that means holding your fellow leaders accountable. That means publicly parting with them when they have abandoned the American people, which we have seen time and time again from Schumer. And Jeffries, this idea that we just go hands off and don't do anything until 2026, and then maybe people will hate Republicans so much that they'll vote for us. That's morally abhorrent because you're depending on people getting hurt. But it's also just bad politics. They will consolidate as much power as they can. In the meantime, if you don't take up space, they will assume that that space is theirs to plunder and hoard. So I think holding leaders accountable is a big part. Also, there's this. You mentioned age, and I think it's less about age and more about experiences. The average age of Congress is 58. The average American is 38. Most members of Congress didn't grow up with school shooter drills or, you know, even school shootings as. Or even their children. It's difficult to legislate on these things if you're just thinking of them as an idea. They don't worry about out of pocket medical costs. They don't worry about putting most of their income towards rent. They probably own their homes, and that's not their fault. But we have a very dynamic and changing world, especially now with technology. We need a Congress that isn't stagnant. You know, I've had AI steal my work. I, like many other disinfo reporters, were kind of the dry run for Elon Musk to what he's doing to the federal government. The lawsuit against Media Matters and then sicking his followers on myself and my other colleagues who were laid off and then deposing me months later. This is the same formula that he's following with our federal workforce, many of whom are veterans, which Republicans tout as like their ideal citizen. And it's like you are not only abandoning them, you're demonizing them.
- [42:10]
Tim Miller
What was it like to be deposed by some, like, a tiny Dex trillionaire?
- [42:16]
Kat Abu Ghazali
It was so fucking stupid, man.
- [42:19]
Cameron Caskey
Can you get further into that? Because I don't really know what happened.
- [42:22]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Yeah. So the Media Matters case. My colleague Eric Hananoki published this piece talking about how there was. There were ads on Twitter for major companies that were next to overtly pro Holocaust content. And that made a bunch of companies be like, oh, I'm not sure if I want to advertise on here personally. If I had a product, I would not want it next to things praising Hitler. But that is just me and I am a woke antifa liberal. Or where therefore calling me today, Elon Musk melted down, said he'd launch a thermonuclear Lawsuit sued Media Matters and multiple countries. Got Ken Paxton involved, the Missouri ag, and the costs of discovery just were so expensive. And they had to let go of 12 of us. I could get a job easier. So I was like, if you're going to lay someone off on my team, make me one of them. And then the next day, Musk posted about how, like, karma is real about me. Specifically Libs of TikTok. All of these right wing figures harassed us, and I'm fine with it, but for my other colleagues, it's like, what are you doing, man? So then I've had health insurance since then, but I've been working with Mother Jones and Sateo News. And then in September, I got a subpoena to be deposed here in Chicago. The thing is, I didn't write at Media Matters. I talked to Eric maybe twice in my life. Nothing about this work. I worked at night. Like, I'm completely unrelated to this case. And I think their thought process was, she has a big platform, so maybe we can get something there. And she's probably some blonde bimbo, so maybe it'll be an easy deposition. And they were wrong. So they did a video deposition here in Chicago, which costs so much money. I don't know the exact number, but apparently video depositions are so much more expensive than just regular depositions. I had. I learned a lot about depositions and subpoenas last year. I can't get into the specifics of it, but I can tell you it was very, very stupid. And, I don't know, I was there, and a complete waste of time for everyone involved.
- [44:34]
Tim Miller
So maybe the bomb bimbo is on the other side of the deposition. I mean, look, I don't want to overstate the importance about being able to fight the aspiring authoritarians online, but it's not nothing. Certainly MAGA has leveraged online successfully to win over particularly young men, but also to win over old people who get confused by what they're seeing on the Internet. And going again back to your opponent, Jan Schakowski, who I don't know one way or the other. I just. In total candor. And before you announced the campaign, I did not realize she was still in Congress. Thought she was like one of the 2000s Congress people. But I pulled up her Twitter account here, and this is the description. Twitter account for Schakowski, for Congress staff managed. When we can't even say it. When we fight, we win. I mean, we might want to update the bio. You know, nothing against Kamala, for her, you know, on her, on using the Kamala, when we fight, we win slogan there. But that didn't. We lost. I think. I'm pretty sure we lost.
- [45:48]
Kat Abu Ghazali
That's what I heard at least. Do you have any update on that? Did we lose?
- [45:51]
Tim Miller
I think we lost. Donald Trump's the president.
- [45:53]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Cameron, sorry.
- [45:56]
Tim Miller
So we fought and we didn't win. So I don't know if it's me, if I was the staff management account.
- [46:00]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Did we really fight?
- [46:01]
Tim Miller
Staff management account. I fought, we fought, we fought. I don't.
- [46:06]
Cameron Caskey
Did we.
- [46:06]
Tim Miller
The global we, the royal we? I don't know but I probably update that if I was the staff, come up with something else. But anyway, you know, like that, that is a legit thing, right? Like the gap between the types of representation that you would offer in that.
- [46:23]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Yeah, absolutely. I mean part of it is, you know, all the people that I covered for work now are in charge of our government and there's a lot of weird lore and machinations and stuff that if you're not literate in technology and, or the right, you just don't know. Like if this aren't, if this isn't something that you have spent at least part of your life thinking about or being in, you're just not aware of how severe it can be. And I mean people like myself and other disinformation, reporters and researchers warned about this before even Harris was the candidate and we weren't listened to. And so now that these people control the government, we need people in Congress who know how to handle them. But also I think there's a communications aspect and this isn't just a Szakowski problem. I've seen a lot of reps complain that, you know, they're doing things but their constituents don't hear it and it feels like their efforts are in vain. And look, that's not voters fault if they don't know what you're doing. It's not, it's not voters fault if you don't reach them. Of course you probably won't reach every single person in your district. But if your communication style isn't working, if it's not something that's updated regularly, that's changing with the times. And once again, this is not about Szakowski in particular, just across the political spectrum, not just Democrats even, that's not your constituents fault. And you either need to change your communication style or hire someone who can because that's. It's just necessary. Nowadays online social media is not optional. And even though my campaign is focused, you know, on the ground, I think people assume it's just a social media campaign. That doesn't mean I'm abandoning social media and online presence because once again, we live in like two different spheres now and neither are optional.
- [48:25]
Cameron Caskey
I got to tell you, you do a great job not talking shit about Joukowski because if I was running against somebody who was a trillion years old, I would just be talking about how they were dinosaur like the entire time. So mad props to you. That's. That's pretty impressive. Like, I don't even know who this congressperson is and I already want to make old jokes.
- [48:45]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Well, I mean, like, I, once again, I really respect her. That's the thing is she's like done a lot of great work. She stood against the Iraq war when it happened in Congress. That's. That says a lot right there.
- [48:58]
Tim Miller
Where was she on the Vietnam War?
- [49:03]
Kat Abu Ghazali
But I, but also, I'm the only candidate announced in this race. I don't know if she's going to run again. I do think that that's part of the problem is we don't know if our elected officials are go. If they're going to run again, especially as they get older. I mean, to be blunt, we have had two Democrats tie in office in the last six weeks and lost two major votes in the last week by one.
- [49:26]
Tim Miller
And this is a major problem.
- [49:28]
Kat Abu Ghazali
It's a major problem. And it's not any of them. There's. It's not their fault they died or they got older. We're ill. That's not their fault, obviously. But it is something to consider and we should be knowing if our leaders how long they want to lead.
- [49:49]
Tim Miller
Yeah, this is a major problem, actually. It's nothing against old folks. We make jokes. I respect my elders. We love people in their 80s. But there are other things you should be doing. Spending time with your grandkids or other appropriate things to do. And if you die in office between now and when the Republican tax bill comes up and you live in a red state or you live in a place where the laws are such, where you can't get replaced quickly enough, it makes it easier for the Republicans to pass their bill. That has real ramifications. So, anyway, heated agreement on that. I need to pick on you though.
- [50:20]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Yeah.
- [50:21]
Tim Miller
Because you are a woke progressive and so we can't. I can't just only pick on Jane Schakowski. I was looking at your site. We're doing basic health care, housing and groceries for people. And people should have bonus money. We have unlimited refugees. I'm for that. We got climate funding you know, we're paying 1 trillion in interest in our debt already. Young Republican cat has to be a little nervous about. About all the money that you want to spend. No.
- [50:46]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Yeah. This was actually something that helped me not become a Republican, is realizing that our healthcare system is so much more expensive than if everyone had healthcare. We spend so much money not just on, like, price gouging by pharmaceutical companies and insurance companies, but also people get hurt, and they don't go with the doctor, and then they can't work anymore, and then they're not contributing to the economy. And my point of view is, you know, we need to tax billionaires and corporations their fair share. We need to tax wealth. And if any American can't afford housing, groceries, and health care with a bit of money left over to save and spend, you know, take your kid to the zoo, go to the movies, just like basic enjoyment of life, not just surviving, but thriving, then we shouldn't have billionaires. And until that basic bar can be passed, we're failing as a country.
- [51:39]
Tim Miller
But we shouldn't know they'll be spending money on sex changes for illegal immigrant transgender prisoners.
- [51:45]
Kat Abu Ghazali
So, oh, my God. This is definitely the main thing that we're spending our money on.
- [51:49]
Tim Miller
And that's expensive.
- [51:50]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Focus on it exclusively.
- [51:52]
Tim Miller
That's expensive. The three. The three sex changes for illegal immigrant transgender prisoners, that's what they.
- [52:00]
Cameron Caskey
That's a reference to the debate, right?
- [52:02]
Kat Abu Ghazali
It wasn't Trump ACLU survey in 2019 that Fox latched onto and that James Carpool is pretending is the only reason that Harris lost the election. It's just baffling how easily Democrats fall for getting in the weeds on this stuff. Like, that's obviously not why we're paying a trillion dollars in interest and we have people that aren't paying their fair share. I mean, I just did my taxes, and I had to pay a bunch of money, and I do that because I want services. I want people to have roads and libraries and for the government to support people. But we're not supporting people right now. We're passing tax cuts for the ultra rich, and we're catering everything so that corporations keep making line go up quarter after quarter instead of just having profit in general. We don't need. The line can only go up so long and for so far. And at a certain point, it will always hurt regular Americans.
- [53:08]
Tim Miller
All right, I'm going to moderate. Tim's going to try to get you one more time. All right? Are you ready?
- [53:11]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Do it.
- [53:12]
Tim Miller
The mayor of Chicago has, like, a 4% approval thing. Or something. And you know, it is true, right? Like, that some of the, like, lefty run cities, like Democratic run cities, have like, not been run that well. Right. So it's not like just, you know, a. An issue of the fact that we're not taxing people enough. Like some of the focus on some of these, you know, social justice issues or whatever has, like, resulted in people in blue cities, like, feeling like they want a little bit more practical leadership. Is that. Can I. Can I get you on that?
- [53:49]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Yeah, I mean, I think there's. There is. I do want to push back a little bit on the idea of like, left run cities, because those are where, you know, our farming subsidies come from. This is where the. A lot of people live. I. You didn't say this, but I hate the idea of like, real America is just, you know, some guy living in.
- [54:12]
Tim Miller
A. Chicago is real America. I just want Chicago to be run a little better. That's all I'm saying.
- [54:16]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Yeah. And I mean, I think everyone would agree in every city, red or blue, that their cities could be run better. One thing that I really respect about Illinois is how so many of its municipal and state leadership is really focused on doing that. I mean, there's a reason that I'm running for federal office, and it's because that's where I think my talents of pushing against the right can be used. And not in Illinois and Chicago. But yeah, I mean, I think we just need to refocus as a country instead of working on these same systems and trying to do this, like, pendulum tug of war of this is how you run a city. This is how you run a city. Reevaluate once again and go back to this idea of basic existence. You know, the right praise on these culture war topics that really, for trans people, for instance, it just comes down to basic humanity. But then the right says, you're going to get arrested for pronouns. And then some Democrats fall for that, and they're like, well, we don't want to arrest you for pronouns. And then you're giving that argument credence. So instead of focusing on that, like, we need to bring back the topic to. Instead of red and blue, right and left, can you afford housing, groceries and healthcare? And if not, why? And that can't just be at the federal level either. That has to be on the state, the local, the municipal level. And I think that every mayor, every governor, every state rep, state senator needs to be focused on that. And we're not as a country. And that's the problem.
- [55:48]
Tim Miller
Cam, you have anything else before we get to the Boomer Mailbag? Boomer mailbag is so good today.
- [55:52]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Oh, hell yeah.
- [55:54]
Cameron Caskey
I have my own.
- [55:54]
Tim Miller
Your life is kind of Boomer mailbag now, I guess. Right? Like you got boomers coming up to you at coffee shops and stuff.
- [56:00]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Yeah, but they're all really nice, like people. You'll never believe this, but people are so much more normal in real life than online. I haven't had one negative experience talking to voters, even people that didn't know I was running for Congress. And then like, you know, at the hands off protest in Algonquin, which is a red area, I went around and asked people, I was like, why are you out here? What do you care about? And then after a bit, you know, I'm running for Congress. And they were like, oh cool, tell me more. And people that had old Trump lawn signs that they put like not anymore on there and they were thrilled about a change and it was really exciting. And like older people, older white folks in a red area that may or may not have voted for Trump in one, two or three of the last past elections. Yeah, I've been very, very happy with talking to people of all ages. I'm very inclusive and woke.
- [56:55]
Cameron Caskey
I guess my first of all, I too am very inclusive and woke. Many people say that I am the wokest, the wokest white man in Gen Z. We'll talk about that once we get some statistics. I have my own Gen Z news that I want to do when we're done with Boomer Mailbag. But before that, I guess the last thing I want to ask you, and this is for our FYpod listeners, but also just on a personal level, I get so annoyed when people act like young people are more qualified to be leaders or you know, like we're some sort of good people just because we're young and you know, we know a lot of young people, like a lot of us suck. And I'm just wondering how you emotionally and and and personally feel about those folks who see us as young people saying slightly left wing things and think and they don't ask any further questions. They're just like, yup, it's a young person. That means they're good.
- [57:57]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Yeah, I mean, absolutely, you're a hundred percent right. I. We're going to see a lot of young people run in 2026. I'm very excited about that. But like some of them are going to be crypto grifters. Some of them are going to be just in it to raise their personal profile and Then some of them, a lot of them, I think, are going to be in it for the right reasons. Even if they might be a little in over their heads or maybe not. Maybe they'll just come in and know what they're in for. And that's awesome, too. But yeah, I keep telling people, I'm like, you should be skeptical of me. I am asking to be your elected representative. I've seen people online that get mad when people ask, like, well, you moved to Illinois pretty recently. And it's like, yeah, you should be asking me that. I think part of the reason we're in this mess is we don't hold our leaders. Or not that we don't hold our leaders accountable, but we've been conditioned to expect that, like, people deserve their seats, whether they're a newcomer or an incumbent. And yeah, someone told me, told me yesterday, actually. They were like, you deserve this seat. And I'm like, no one deserves a seat. This is very kind and I appreciate the sentiment, but I want to earn your vote. And just because I'm 26 doesn't mean I'm better than everyone else. It's everything else about me that makes that true. That's a joke for those.
- [59:16]
Tim Miller
Have you been treated differently since you're a Congress. Congress candidate? Do people like, I don't know, open the door for you or.
- [59:23]
Kat Abu Ghazali
I mean, I. The people that hung up the phone when I was trying to set up the campaign when they realized there was an incumbent have started emailing me since we raised $400,000 in grassroots donations to be like, actually, we would love to work with you and. But most of all, I mean, like, I'm trying to just like, my social media team is me, and I'm just posting as I normally would. And so it's kind of nice when people treat me and my posts and in real life behavior like they normally would. Although we did have on our kickoff event, this was one of the most touching things that's ever happened to me. Two kids drove in from Indiana, two high school kids to tell me that they wanted to run for office when they got old enough. And it was just, it was so sweet. And I get so emo thinking about it, but that type of being treated differently, that rocks. And I hope I can help them when they can do that.
- [60:17]
Cameron Caskey
And it's worth noting that also there's going to be, like you said, a lot of young people running for office who are criminally underqualified, but being criminally under qualified knows no age. There are people of all Ages.
- [60:31]
Tim Miller
The Secretary of Defense, me, the President, the Deputy FBI Director. Had my job three weeks ago. For example.
- [60:39]
Unknown
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- [61:10]
Cameron Caskey
Okay, so Tim has a message from my phone.
- [61:12]
Tim Miller
Oh, no. We have two Boomer mailbag questions. They're so good. All right, up next, Boomer mailbag. Okay, first one. I'm sorry to do this to you, Kat, but, you know, you agreed to come on the show. Jerry is an 8. I guess before we say this, if you are a Boomer and you have a question for the youth, email bulwark podcasthebolwerk.com Jerry is an 81 year old grandmother of 10. Congrats, Jerry.
- [61:34]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Congrats, Jerry.
- [61:35]
Tim Miller
Subject line of her email was dick pics. The substance was regarding Harry Sisson's controversial actions. Why do people these days actually send these things, knowing they can just be captured and shared? Why would anyone actually put this stuff in writing? Pics?
- [61:52]
Kat Abu Ghazali
I mean, Cameron, you have one. You want to start with that?
- [61:56]
Cameron Caskey
I have a dig. Yeah, sure. So I don't completely understand this one either. Just because, you know, you don't want to set expectations, right? Like if you've got something going on down there, you don't want to spoil it and you don't want to make it seem like it is more than it is. And if you don't got something going on down there, why would you tip your hand, right? Like, you know, at the end of the day when you're wearing pants, it's. You have something of a Schrodinger's penis, and therefore it could simultaneously be the biggest one you've ever seen or, or tiny. And that's kind of the mystery. But, you know, I think that dick pics are kind of a bad idea. You know, I've, I, I don't send them to women. You know, whether or not like a hundred men have pictures of my dick is a different story. Because Grindr, the rules of the universe do not apply. Grinder, it's kind of, it's kind of a free Space.
- [62:51]
Tim Miller
You don't even know about that, Jerry.
- [62:53]
Cameron Caskey
But yeah, I don't get the dick pics thing. I don't. I don't. In terms of the Harry of it all, which has now popped up on three episodes, including one with Harry, I don't think anything came up about him sending any pictures of himself.
- [63:07]
Tim Miller
Way to defend his honor.
- [63:10]
Cameron Caskey
I will die with a sword and shield in my hand for Harry Sasson. But yeah, I don't really know what to say about dick pics other than if you're a young man listening to this, if you're an old man, or if you're any sort of man, keep it to yourself. If somebody wants to know what it looks like, they will consent to finding out. And if they're disappointed, they're disappointed. But at least you're not tipping your hand.
- [63:34]
Tim Miller
Kat, anything to add?
- [63:35]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Yeah, I mean, what I would say, you know, I get a lot of dick pics in my DMs, oftentimes from like Nazis that want to show me their penis for whatever reason. But in terms of people that are sending an agenda, has it ever worked.
- [63:51]
Tim Miller
As a Nazi sending you an unsolicited dick pic ever yielded a romance of any kind?
- [63:57]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Oh, unfortunately not. But that is the. The idea behind my romance novel that I'm writing.
- [64:04]
Tim Miller
Oh, really?
- [64:05]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Yeah, maybe.
- [64:08]
Tim Miller
Maybe you could win them over. Maybe you could de radicalize them.
- [64:11]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Well, I'm not sure if you saw in my GQ article yesterday, but I did talk about how a guy like DM'd me and said that he was jacking off to my video explainers. And this has happened from not just one guy, by the way. I've had multiple guys tell me this and were de radicalized because they were also listening to the words effective communicator. What can I say?
- [64:30]
Tim Miller
This is why we need you in Congress. De radicalizing young men. 1.
- [64:34]
Kat Abu Ghazali
I got all the trappings of a trad wife. I got the fake blonde hair, I've got the knitting needles, I've got the really good cooking. But look, stay with me too long.
- [64:44]
Tim Miller
One jerk session at a time. We're de radicalizing mag young men. Cameron, do you have something to add before we get to your. The next more important. Oh, sorry. Chat, please. Please.
- [64:51]
Kat Abu Ghazali
No, Cameron, please.
- [64:52]
Cameron Caskey
I was just gonna say one thing my beloved ex girlfriend, Ellie Schnit, who is a guest on the show, said to me about dick pics a long time ago when she was talking about getting them from barstool jerk nut bags. Was that one reason, you know, one of the main reasons we think men send unsolicited dick pics because there's a very, very big difference between dick pics unsolicited and dick pics solicited. One of the reasons they'll send the unsolicited ones is the lack of consent. It's the lack of consent that gets them excited. They're not sending it because they're so hyped for you to see what they are or are not packing. They're sending it because they like that you didn't ask. And because it's something of a power trip for them to impose that upon you. You know, it's their form of digital aggression and assault.
- [65:41]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Right. It's like assault isn't about just unstoppable sexual urges. It's about power. But I would like to say if you're considering sending a dick pic in good faith, I would encourage you to instead put on, like, your best fitting pair of sweatpants and a nice graphic tee that you go to bed and take a picture in the mirror that will always be better received by women.
- [66:06]
Tim Miller
Great advice. God, I love Boomer mailbag. All right, it's maybe our best Boomer Mailbag question yet. And, Kat, just lucky you you ended up here for this episode. Okay, here it is. Dear Tim, this one's addressed directly to me. My wife and I have been listening to FYpod and we have a rather urgent parenting question. We were seriously considering having children until we heard your co host, Cameron Klasky. Now we're having second thoughts. So here's the question. What exactly does one have to do to end up with a child like Cameron Kalski? More importantly, how do we avoid it? If it's a particular sexual position, we'll take it off the table. If it's something like don't conceive during a full moon, we'll get a lunar calendar. We just need guidance. Thanks in advance for your advice. Warmish. Regards, Jeffrey A. Caskey.
- [66:54]
Cameron Caskey
Is his email tag at the bottom of it. Can you read the tag that he.
- [67:00]
Tim Miller
Got cut off of?
- [67:01]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Who?
- [67:01]
Tim Miller
Of the producer who sent it to me. Cut off the tag.
- [67:04]
Cameron Caskey
Okay, Kat, you go first because I have to pull this up.
- [67:06]
Tim Miller
It's from Jeffrey A. Kasky.
- [67:08]
Kat Abu Ghazali
It seems like I don't know the exact position Cam was conceived in. I would encourage. I don't have any children myself either. Oh, God. What's my advice here?
- [67:28]
Tim Miller
I have advice.
- [67:29]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Yeah.
- [67:30]
Tim Miller
I'll take it from you, Kat. This was directed to me. Jeff, you've done a great job. Okay? The Fact that you are able to listen to your child on an entire podcast, talk about his love life and his political opinions, his grinder dick pics. Yeah. Means that you have raised a, you have a. You've had a healthy, honest relationship with your child and that puts you in elite company because most people have very dishonest relationships with their children and they want to like have an imaginary view of what their kid is like and they don't want that imaginary view punctured and I find that very unhealthy. I practice radical candor in my life. I think that my 7 year old child will probably not appreciate that at some point in her life, but hopefully someday she'll be a 24 year old streamer like Cameron Klasky and she'll appreciate that we had an honest exchange with each other. And so I think you've done a great job. Jeffrey A. Klasky.
- [68:30]
Cameron Caskey
That is something for which I always credit my parents is the fact that I tell them everything. Very often I tell them way too much. I call my mom pretty much every day and tell her everything that's going on. And every parent wishes their child would call them every day to check in and let them know what's up. I do think my mom occasionally wishes I told her slightly less about certain things. But my parents have raised me to always feel comfortable telling them everything that's going on. And for that I am grateful every single day. I'd like to add two things. Number one, adopt. That's a great answer to how to prevent having a child like Cameron Caskey. I have a lot of my father and mother's best and worst qualities. And if you clearly, and if you're aware of these things. Yeah, if you're aware of these things, adopt. My father was an adoption lawyer for a long time. He created a lot of beautiful families. Tim has adopted. It's gone quite well for him. Just do that, do that everybody. Second of all, my father on his regular email has a tag at the bottom, best wishes Jeffrey A. Caskey. A picture of his signature and then the quote, Nobody ever succeeded in doing anything by taking no for an answer. And I just want to say it has taken me so long to unlearn that entitlement with which I was raised. But just for those of you listening, my father's a brilliant man. He's a great man. You actually should very often take no for an answer.
- [69:58]
Tim Miller
What great parents we all have, we have, two of us here have converted Republican parents who saw the light and saw the horrors of Donald Trump and made changes as an adult. Made changes as kind of an older adult, which is something very challenging to do.
- [70:15]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Years ago, my mom called me. And by the way, I also have a similar relationship with my mom. I tell her everything. She watched my whole stream yesterday, my virtual office hours.
- [70:23]
Tim Miller
Wow.
- [70:24]
Kat Abu Ghazali
And was very active in the comments. She's the best. And if she's listening to this, hi, mom, I love you. But she called me like two years ago and was like, look, I can finally admit it. Ronald Reagan, not a good president. And I was like, okay, my parents.
- [70:37]
Tim Miller
Haven'T gone that far yet, Kat. All right, now let's go over.
- [70:39]
Kat Abu Ghazali
That's the hardest thing to abandon. That's the hardest. Like, it's the one thing that sticks with you.
- [70:44]
Tim Miller
Let us hold on to something.
- [70:46]
Cameron Caskey
I always give him credit. I'll always give Ronald Reagan credit. One hell of an actor.
- [70:50]
Tim Miller
Up next, Gen Z News.
- [70:52]
Cameron Caskey
I have one Gen Z news that's pretty important. A sharp age divide is emerging within Gen Z. In the latest Yale polling data. Ages 18 to 21, Republican plus 12. Ages 22 to 29, Democrat plus 6. Now, I think there's a very obvious thing going on here, which is Covid.
- [71:12]
Tim Miller
Yeah, I was gonna say 18 year olds can't read.
- [71:15]
Cameron Caskey
A lot of them can't read. And as we all know, the Republican Party is the one that wants you to be less educated, as exhibited by a lot of the things that they're doing to education. But I think Covid is the obvious difference here. And I think we've all seen that graphic that's they made the rounds on Twitter. That's like, there's two Gen Z's, Gen Z 1.0 and Gen Z 2.0. And then it lays out some of the big differences. But what I think is going on is young people were locked indoors during COVID and on social media all day. And that's when the algorithms really started pumping all that right wing content to us. But, Kat, as somebody who has professionally observed this type of content, what's your take on that?
- [71:57]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Yeah, I mean, I think you nailed it. And I can't imagine what it was like to be in high school during COVID or middle school or even elementary school. Like I said about, like, experiences and lawmakers being able to legislate on those. Like, I don't want to. I vowed not to serve more than five terms because, like, there's people, there are kids going through shit right now that I have no idea about. And that'll become clearer in like 10 years. But yeah, no, I think you got it right on the money. And a big part is like there's a reason that the right wing media ecosystem has to put billions and billions and billions of dollars into creating like this manosphere anti woke echo chamber. And it's working because Democrats and the left didn't respond in kind and didn't invest in their own media apparatus. And that's not to say that they should have spread misinformation like the right, but just, I mean when I was a creator at the dnc, it was very obvious that unless you were super willing to go right on the party line and repeat things verbatim, you wouldn't get any access to campaign surrogates. And like that's part of the problem. People like Ben Shapiro and Charlie Kirk are willing to criticize the Republicans and, and everyone is sick of the establishment no matter what. And so what you have now is a bunch of young people that have to use social media to be involved in their age cohort and they're being force fed Andrew Tate and radicalizing bullshit like that. And so now we're here, it doesn't feel great.
- [73:46]
Cameron Caskey
And with that we say slay. Kat, you have been amazing. Thanks so much for joining us today.
- [73:51]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Sorry, I was half awake for the first 10 minutes.
- [73:53]
Tim Miller
This is great. Narcolepsy meds candidate Kat Abu Ghazali. Did I get it?
- [73:59]
Kat Abu Ghazali
You nailed it.
- [74:00]
Tim Miller
Nailed it. Everybody else will see you next week.
- [74:03]
Kat Abu Ghazali
Thanks for having me.
- [74:23]
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Unknown
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