Cam (4:42)

Yeah, I, it kind of brings to mind that whole thing everybody talks about where it's like the leaders that are the most important and do the best work are normally the ones who were called to it, as opposed to the ones who had just been kind of plotting it out the whole time and playing their, you know, their House of Cards cosplay chess game. I feel weird kind of immediately comparing you to an old white man. But one of my. My literal best friend, Teddy Goff had a tweet during the Harris campaign where he said one of the many extremely appealing things about Waltz is that he doesn't appear to have had a grand plan to take over the universe. He appears to have gone into politics because he likes helping people and risen because he's really good at that. What a concept. And that's kind of the first thing I think is like, you know, you were in a moment where I think that when you and I had that conversation that I'm alluding to, Trump had not won yet. And whether or not you had figured this out, I was still completely dead ass convinced that Harris was not only going to win, I thought she was going to kick his ass. And I low key thought that even like until he won Georgia, which then I was like, wait, why did I think this at all? But you know what, I enjoyed the hope for some time, but suddenly Trump wins and you are, you know, put in this situation where you have to make this decision that's like, okay, in a world where Harris becomes president, that is, you know, there, there is not as intense a call to leadership because there is going to be a plot for the future being laid out and there's going to be someone in the off in office who is thinking more than 10 seconds ahead. But then Trump wins, and I think you and a lot of other young people said, okay, I'm not putting up with this. And even if this was not necessarily my immediate goal, now is the time. And that is why I host a podcast with another white dude. I said, you know what, we need more white dudes making podcasts for a largely 40 plus audience of former Republicans. But I guess that brings to mind like, you know, you're someone who has just kind of jumped into this situation. You've been involved with politics and activism for a long time. You and I both come from a viral town hall moment where we were calling out somebody who was fucking around with human rights. But now you're in the race. You are raising money from donors who want to see you lay out plans for the future. What has it been like trying to create this space for yourself, you know, in a situation where it might not exactly be extremely easy for you?

Deja Fox (7:25)

It's not extremely easy. This was going to be an uphill battle regardless. We knew that, right? If it was going to be easy, we'd have more young working class people in office. But there's a reason we don't. And that's because these structures are not built for people like us to lead. You know, I think about even one of the folks who's in my, my primary with us, right, was given the former Congressman's email and fundraising list.

Cam (7:51)

Well, it's his daughter, right?

Deja Fox (7:52)

That's right.

Cam (7:53)

Okay. So I'm sorry, I see, I see people complain about nepotism in Hollywood every day. I see people being like, oh, this director's kid got cast in something. And I always say to them, like you, you see nepotism in banking where like some dude's son is now driving people out of their homes. And you see people like George W. Bush start wars. Like, are we not going to talk about how in politics there's a lot of people who just kind of walk into their parents seat and. And then one of your opponents is using the now late parents email list.

Deja Fox (8:32)

Yeah. I mean, this is, this is traditional, right? This is what, what we're saying is it's, it's not that it's unfair, it's not that it's unheard of, and it's not that she hasn't worked hard, but it is the kind of advantage that someone like me who was raised by a single mom who did every kind of odd job. I mean, my mom delivered flowers, she cleaned houses. Right. She babysat when she didn't have a job so other neighbors could pick up an extra shift. It's the kind of advantage someone like me would never have. And you know, it brings to mind what you're saying, which is that everybody is screaming from the rooftops that we need new leadership. But then when people like me stick my head up to lead, the same people who in their stump speeches say we need newer and younger leaders, have erected barriers that make it even more difficult, have put their thumb on the scale. People in D.C. have put their thumb on the scale in a primary in which we have more than one good option. I think what I've been really proud of in our run is that we offer people something different. We offer people a break from the status quo. Right. You have the opportunity here in Southern Arizona to elect the first woman of my generation. Right. A generation of women who are the first to have less rights than their mothers. That is a kind of urgency that I bring to this work. And not only that, but to increase the number of people in Congress who get it right, who have had to make hard decisions in the grocery checkout line, who know what it's like to ride the public bus, and who are.

Cam (10:15)

Going to be alive when the major climate migration starts.

Deja Fox (10:22)

Not theoretical. Right. And the last thing I'll add is that if we have a long term vision for this party and our democracy, then we're going to need Leaders like me who are effective messengers, especially in new media and social media spaces. And something I'm really proud of is that we have reached organically without a doll of paid behind it. Four and a half million people on Instagram and TikTok in a special election primary in Arizona in the middle of summer. That is unprecedented. And it speaks to the fact that there is a hunger for candidates like me who say it and say it straight, who are honest and who are a break from the status quo, who bring advocacy experience to this work. And people want someone they can get hopeful about right now and they deserve it. And I think that person is me. I'm the kind of candidate who can build our bench of leadership up in D.C. right? We need more effective messengers and communicators. We're in a deficit.

Cam (11:23)

Yeah, it's a. It's pretty tough. There's certain Congress people I see who by many measures are good congresspeople who do good things and then they make a TikTok and you are like, oh my God. If someone I knew personally from like high school was posting shit like this, I would have them. Baker acted like I. Some, some people, I think because we need messaging online, because we need to be in these new media spaces, certain congresspeople have understandably said, okay, well, then I need to get on social media and start. But you know what? My message to any, any Congress people listening to this, I know we've got a few. My message is, you don't necessarily, you don't necessarily need to be the one doing it. If every member of Congress was making TikToks and following TikTok trends, if every single one of them is doing it, the message would get diluted. Like, let's, let's find the ones who can do it in a way that doesn't feel like your grandparent taking a selfie video from an angle like this. And let's, let's give them the infrastructure to post stuff. Some people on social media who I won't call out by name really need to just like, tweet about the policies that they're writing and not be. Not put the same shit that the fucking influencers you and I hang out with are posting. But I want our audience to know how to be supportive of you because you need to make sure you've got enough infrastructure to have people knocking doors and making phone calls for you and stuff. So for the bulwark listeners who are going to go to your website, which you have to tell us what it is and do small Dollar donations and stuff. I know you had a lot of affection for your former congressman. You had been saying such nice things about him when you and I were talking about this. And I correctly said that you were going to run for Congress. What are sort of three or more, I guess, whatever. Let's say three things that you are kind of going to do differently. Three policies where you're like, okay, this is the new thing that comes with Deja. Yeah.

Deja Fox (13:27)

I mean, first and foremost, I want to invite folks to read our policies@dejafox.com.

Cam (13:34)

And Fox with two X's for this.

Deja Fox (13:36)

Two X's, that's right. Deja, like Deja Vu and Fox with two X's. And you can check out our policies there. And if there's something that really matters to you, there's a box in the bottom where you can add your thoughts. And so when you ask, what would I do differently? It's things like that. Right. It's about being more transparent about our processes. And, you know, if you check us out on social media, which you can follow along asiafox, we have a substack as well, where I give the. Behind the scenes of the behind the scenes. Right. I just wrote a post about the five reasons young people can't win. Everything from having to dox yourself to not being able to afford the right kinds of experience. So we are really setting a new standard for transparency in this process. And the other thing I would say that I would do differently is I'd be a different kind of messenger, simply because I am of a generation who has known only Donald Trump running for president. Right. For the last 10 years. This man has been running for president since I was 15 years old. The decade of work I have done has been in opposition to him, his administration. And I would bring an activist mindset to this work. That means being an obstructionist. Right. That means being a fighter. It means using parliamentary maneuvers to stand between Donald Trump and tax cuts and giving tax cuts to billionaires when families like mine can't even afford to make rent. Right. And so that's the kind of perspective and fight I would bring. Right. It's not for me just about checking the boxes. It's about being a champion and a fighter and an obstructionist. And I do believe that it is easier to teach an activist like me parliamentary maneuvers than it is to teach some of those politicians how to stand up for something, how to take a risk. And the last thing that I would do differently is simply by the nature of being 25 years old. I would be the youngest member. I'd be the first woman of my generation. And that brings an entirely different kind of perspective to this work, right? When our members have to treat our generation as their equal, their peer, it means a very different conversation on things like affordable housing. When you have to talk to a generation of folks for whom buying a home is not promised. Right. Most of these older generations, it felt like a promise. They would, of course, get to own a home one day. Not for our generation, right. To sit as peers with young people for whom the climate crisis is not theoretical. Right. When we're talking about plans for 2050, like, I'll be around to live through changes, the dynamic of the conversation. And as it stands, we have a representation problem in D.C. in Congress, we have one representative for our entire generation. Even though Gen z makes up 1 in 5Americans, that is a representation problem we need to remedy. And so those are all pieces of how I would do things differently.

Cam (16:40)

Now we've got Max Frost, who is a young, sprightly, energetic gentleman. I saw him speak the other day at a conference I went to in D.C. that I think you probably got invited to last year. You were probably too cool and busy for. But I, I'm, listen, I am way too cool for it. I just went basically because I wanted a free trip. I wanted to bring my little brother. But we, we saw Max talk about stuff and he was talking about the new media strategies as well, which is really interesting. And I think, you know, it's just weird and I, this is sort of an abstract question, but I just kind of want your, your take on it. Like, I, I feel like the Democratic Party talks about reaching out to Gen Z more than they do it in a substantial way. But I don't know what the main thing I would say to them is when they were like, when they're like, okay, how do we reach Gen Z? And I feel like some of them probably ask you that.

Deja Fox (17:38)

They ask me this every election cycle, right? I get tapped as a strategist to bring young people into this election. But I could not in good faith continue to be a strategist behind the scenes for candidates, causes, or a content creator in front of the camera. If I could not give people someone they could actually get excited about. Right? And that is the difference. That's what our party needs to learn, is we need to be putting forward better, newer, younger candidates. That's the, that's the key. It's really that simple to keep young people engaged in our party, to keep working class people engaged in our party. We need to give them representatives who are representative of them. And that sounds simple and yet could not be more difficult to convey. But we're seeing it every single day here on this campaign. We've knocked hundreds of doors and at the doors we hear people who, by and large, I'll be honest with you, don't know this a special election is even happening. And these are good voters, these are people who vote in primaries, but this is a special election that came out of, you know, that came in surprise and that's going to be in the middle of summer. And so while most people don't know what's happening when we talk to them about my story, overcoming homelessness, working at a gas station, going toe to toe with Republicans to save funding for Planned Parenthood, right? Being the first in my family to go to college, it is clear that personal story and policy are connected. And not only that, but when we tell them that they, with their vote, have the opportunity to make history, send the first woman of my generation, Gen Z, to Congress, right, Just by checking a box, just by showing up, they get excited about this election. And if you can just imagine, I know so many of us after 2024, we're still finding our footing after that election, right? To move people from a sense of, of disappointment, disheartened, right, Disillusioned into excitement, we need candidates that do that, right? If a candidate, especially in a seat like mine, I'm running in a safer bluer seat in Arizona where the primary is the election, essentially, we need to be filling those safer and bluer seats with candidates who create excitement, who bring people into the party that we are standing to lose, who are effective messengers in the places where Donald Trump and the folks on the far right are running circles around us, like on social media, media and in new media. And if we are not using these safe blue seats to the fullest of their power to build our bench of leadership, then we are failing at having a long term strategy, right? It is absolutely about switching these red to blue seats. We need to be doing that in 2026, right? Absolutely. To capture power. But in the meantime, in special elections like mine, power is up for grabs in this party and we need to decide who we are as a, as, as a, as a party, right? And that's going to happen in these safer and bluer seats where we decide if we want newer and younger voices, if we want progressives and disruptors, and it'll have an impact truly on the entire country. What we do here in Southern Arizona will determine what kind of candidates are recruited, endorsed, and funded in 2026 and who's at the top of the ticket in 2028.

Cam (20:58)

Well, I guess that leaves me with two more things before I stop wasting your time and let you continue running for United States Congress. One of them is, you know, I feel like you're probably getting some people calling your credibility into question because you're young. And, you know, one of the things that I've thought about that is like, okay, Max Frost is in Congress. He's young. David Hogg is the Vice Chair of the dnc. He's very young. I feel like some of the people who are calling your credibility a question because of your youth are probably also, whether or not they are admitting it, doing so because you are a woman.

Deja Fox (21:37)

Because I feel like the quiet part out loud, Cam.

Cam (21:40)

I feel like the young thing, it's like, I don't know, man. People treat me like a fucking expert on shit. And I'm a. I spend most of my day on Game of Thrones Reddit. So I'm wondering how many times you face those people who are sort of saying, well, she's inexperienced while she's young and stuff, but would probably not say the same things if somebody like me ran.

Deja Fox (22:04)

Thank you for saying the quiet part out loud, Cam. I really appreciate that. Because you're right. I have a decade of experience in this work. Despite being 25, I have been doing this for a decade. And with that decade of experience as an activist, as a strategist, right, One of the youngest presidential staffers in history, someone who's been toe to toe with the Trump admin administration, comes another kind of experience, which is that I have been a young woman of color, working class in politics for the last decade. I'm used to being underestimated. And the truth of the matter is, is that with the rate we're going, I'll be a young woman, politics for the next, like, 20 years with the average, average age over here, right? So I'm no stranger to being underestimated. But we're doing things differently over here on this campaign. I don't doubt that I'm the right person for this moment. I know that the kind of experience we need is an activist, is someone who's ready to fight. And that the kind of leadership we need in this party is someone who can be an effective messenger, who can translate policy into personal story and connect with people in a moment where they feel hopeless, where our political system feels more inhumane than ever. And so you know, my message to people is that the biggest barrier for someone like me is you investing in us. Right? That is the barrier, including financially for.

Cam (23:42)

All of our listeners, by the way, it's true.

Deja Fox (23:44)

I mean, it's both and right. If you believe it, it's possible. And we're seeing that every single day. Right. We might not have the same advantages, right. The email lists or the big money. And we're sticking to our values when it comes to the money that we're bringing into this campaign. And to date, we have over 3,000 individual contributors that are invested in this work. And I feel a deep sense of responsibility to each and every one of them. You know, just last night a man asked what our P.O. box was. He's on a fixed income, but wanted to send just a little something. Right. I had a comment on TikTok of a man telling me that he was going to go drive doordash tonight to go make some money to contribute. And it would probably only be $20, but that goes a long way over here. You know, I saw someone even say that they didn't have anything that they could pitch in, and somebody else hopped in the comments and said, you know what, I'm going to pitch in on your behalf. I have a little extra. And this is what politics can and should. It should not be about. Not me getting emotional, but it really shouldn't be about big money or legacy last names. It should be about who moves the most people. And in seats like this, we have an opportunity to send a message about the kind of leadership we deserve and to build something better. And I know that that feels a long way away and convincing people of their ability to make change is very difficult. But I see the numbers in the back end, right? Four and a half million organic views. If every single person that we reached pitched in just $1, we would not just be at our raise goal, we would be five, six times past it. Right? That is collective power. That's people power. And it's the way that campaigns are going to have to move to be different if we're going to see young working people come into office.

Cam (25:52)

And you know what annoys me, especially in terms of making opportunities for working class people coming into office is what people consider experience. Right? Because you know, when you and I were chatting that, that fateful evening months ago, you were just talking about all these different groups of people in your community and, and what is important to all of them. And I was just like, oh man. The only thing I know about the people from my Community is that we don't like it when our high school gets shot up. And I, all the parents, like, pick. Other than that, I couldn't tell you really anything about Parkland, even though it's like, where my roots are and all my friends live there. I'd be like, yeah, we vote blue. I'm pretty sure. I don't know with Florida anymore. It's a coin flip depending where you are. But, you know, people are calling young people's credibility a question when in my opinion, building roots in your community and getting to know who's there is much more valuable experience than being a business person. And forget the Trump of it all. Obviously, Trump is such a charlatan. Whatever. We're not reinventing the wheel here. But people will straight up say, oh, yeah, this person doesn't have much experience in politics, but they've been a successful business person. It's like, that is not the same thing. It's community is so much more important, especially in Congress. So the last thing, and this is really for our bulwark listeners, because this is the type of content that they want. Before I go get ready for two birthday parties and you keep running for Congress, do you have any just fun, quick, silly stories from. Because you were an organizer in Arizona for the Harris campaign, and I know that our gang probably wants to hear some fun or moving or whatever stories from Harris.

Deja Fox (27:35)

Yeah. So I was the first in my family to go to college, like I said, despite Republicans best efforts, like Jeff Flake, Right. To defund Planned Parenthood centers take birth control access away from me.

Cam (27:47)

Jeff Lake was the one that you called out, right? That's right.

Deja Fox (27:49)

Yeah. The Republican senator from Arizona who attempted to defund Planned Parenthood centers where I got birth control when I had no money, no parents, and no insurance. Right. These Republicans put up their best effort to stand between me and higher education. Didn't work out for them. I ended up going to Columbia University, something we shared.

Cam (28:08)

Well, one thing that we don't share is that I'm pretty sure you graduated.

Deja Fox (28:12)

I did graduate. But this is the fun story of it, right? Is that because of good policy, I was able to be the first in my family to go to college. I went to Columbia. I did my freshman year. And then as I was unpacking my sophomore year dorm, I mean, literally hanging my clothes in my little wardrobe, I got a direct message on Instagram from someone on the Harris campaign. And this is 2020, the primary. 20 people running for president. It's absolute mayhem. And, you know, it was Just a job description for the digital team. And I texted them back and said, hey, I have some friends that just graduated. I'll send you some recommendations. And they said, no, I'm encouraging you to apply. I did, and two weeks later I was dropping out of school. You can imagine how scary that is. As the first of my family to go to college, I was moving to a city I had never been to, Baltimore, signing a lease on an apartment that frankly, I could not afford. My first apartment.

Cam (29:10)

That one I can relate to better than any of the stuff you're talking about with.

Deja Fox (29:15)

And then, you know, starting a job as influencer and surrogate strategist. I was a full time digital strategist on this campaign, but the job didn't exist before I got there. If you can imagine, this was 2019. TikTok was still like a teen dancing app to most people, right? Not where the majority of of folks are getting news.

Cam (29:33)

Not where the dudes I went to high school with are becoming mini fascists.

Deja Fox (29:37)

Oh God. Through dancing apps. But I share the story to say that when I was 19 years old, I took a big leap of faith and I learned a lesson about what it meant to be fearless, right? And to get into a fight, not because I was sure I could win, right? I wasn't positive that she was going to go on to do all of the things she did, right? But I knew that I saw myself in her, that as someone raised by a single mom, a first generation American, an Asian woman, right? That I saw myself in this candidate. And what I learned then is what I know now about this election, which is that I will take any fight that I'd be proud to lose and I intend to win this office. But every single day we rack up wins. Just the other day, on Friday, last Friday, a week ago, three people that I had never met before showed up to our canvas. Two of them frat boys from the University of Arizona, one another young woman. None of them had ever knocked doors for a political candidate before they found us on TikTok. That is not supposed to happen in a special election primary, right? We are turning out new people and doing the work that that this party says they want us to do, right? Standing up to lead. And with or without support from the establishment, people are showing up.

Cam (31:04)

Deja Fox is blazing trails, stepping up and being the Gen Z candidate that you want and somehow saving our frat boys, which is possibly even more challenging than frat guys.

Deja Fox (31:17)

They stayed till the sun went down. They knocked the doors.

Cam (31:20)

I was door knocking for Harris in Pennsylvania, actually. With the same group that you and I. Yeah. For was it. No, it was the midterms in 2022.

Deja Fox (31:29)

Yeah.

Cam (31:30)

Which is where we met. Yeah. But. Oh, my God. But we. I forgot about that. We. I was door knocking and I got assigned a partner, as you normally do, and it was this very friendly boomer who had lovely politics and everything. And what I did not know when we got assigned to each other was that she was, like, a March for Our Lives fan. But when I say fan, I don't mean supporter. I mean fan. The way that people are fans of, like, Taylor Swift and the. The. Our chaperone, or whatever you want to call it, dropped us off in the reddest part of that district, like Scarlet Red. People were threatening to call the police on us for knocking and stuff. And she was, like, way too into. And I'm like, ma' am, ma' am. This was directly tied to the school shooting. I survived. So maybe talking about this for an hour straight is going to be kind of unpleasant while we're knocking Republican doors. And my metric for if someone knows too much about March for Our Lives is if they know who I am. Because, you know, while it's a barometer, well, it did start in my home. So I guess if you read the book about it or anything, you'll get that idea. You know, I think that I. I think that I should probably be, you know, a little. I don't want to say forgotten, but I should maybe fade into memory a tiny bit because I'm a podcaster now. But anyway, people are going to knock doors for you. We are going to raise money for your campaign with everybody here at the Bulwark. We'll put some link to your website or something in the description. I don't know how to do that, but Sebastian will. And thank you so much for joining us.

Deja Fox (33:13)

Thank you for having me. Thanks for the thoughtful questions. And like I said, this is hard work, but good work. And if we do it together, it will get done, and we'll have a great playbook coming out of this of how we elect newer, younger leaders.

Cam (33:28)

Well, to our listeners, you know what to do. Go find Deja on social media and stuff like that, and we will hopefully be talking to you with more Gen Z candidates if they follow her lead. So, like, and subscribe or whatever. And with that Slayer.