3: Why Isn't Ukraine the New Gaza? (with Ellie Schnitt)

Summary

FYPod – Episode 3: Why Isn't Ukraine the New Gaza? (with Ellie Schnitt) Summary

Release Date: March 4, 2025 | Host: The Bulwark’s Tim Miller and Cameron Caskey | Guest: Ellie Schnitt

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1. Introduction

In Episode 3 of FYPod, hosts Tim Miller and Cameron Caskey delve into the complex relationship between Gen Z's political inclinations and international conflicts, specifically comparing the United States' involvement in Ukraine and Gaza. Joined by political analyst Ellie Schnitt, the conversation explores the underlying factors driving Gen Z's support for Trump in 2024 and examines whether shifting alliances and media narratives have influenced their perspectives on foreign policy.

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2. Gen Z’s Engagement with International Conflicts

The episode opens with Cameron questioning the apparent apathy among Gen Z towards international issues like NATO and the ongoing conflict in Ukraine.

Cameron Caskey [03:33]:
"I kind of wonder if like maybe like people a lot younger than me, like, don't even give a fuck about this."

Ellie Schnitt responds by highlighting the pervasive apathy, likening it to "Murphy's Law of Gen Z," where if something can be apathetic, Gen Z will be apathetic.

Ellie Schnitt [04:07]:
"I think people are all over the place in my generation. Obviously, number one is always going to be apathy."

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3. Trump’s Image Among Gen Z

A significant portion of the discussion centers on former President Trump's influence on Gen Z. Tim Miller probes whether Trump's straightforward stance against foreign wars resonates with younger voters, contrasting it with his perceived petulance.

Tim Miller [06:36]:
"Trump has a pretty simple argument that I can understand how it might appeal to some young people, which is just like, no more wars."

However, Ellie critiques Trump's approach, suggesting that his exhibited "petty little king" behavior undermines his tough image.

Ellie Schnitt [05:44]:
"I think that without a doubt, the idea that Trump's in office is saying we already lost. So many of what people were protesting was that Biden was someone to negotiate with, but with Trump, we lost."

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4. Contrasting Leadership: Trump vs. Zelensky

The hosts and guest compare Trump's leadership style to that of Ukrainian President Zelensky, examining how each appeals to or alienates Gen Z.

Tim Miller [08:19]:
"It's a moral imperative... If you have the ability to help people who need help, you should do it."

Ellie Schnitt [16:53]:
"I think that one of the lessons we're learning here is American isolationism is even scarier when the people we're going to be isolated with are each other and each other sucks."

Ellie emphasizes the emotional impact of visible foreign aid, contrasting it with less tangible support for Ukraine.

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5. Media Narratives and Historical Perspectives

The conversation shifts to how history is framed and its impact on Gen Z's understanding of international relations. Ellie discusses the influence of American-centric historical narratives and their potential to skew perceptions of current events.

Ellie Schnitt [08:26]:
"History is written by the winners. And for all I know, not that there's going to be a public school system by the time I have kids within the next, let's say, 18 months."

The hosts debate how media portrayal affects Gen Z's view of leaders like Putin and Zelensky, questioning the consistency in characterizing dictators.

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6. Strategies to Engage and Mobilize Gen Z

The trio explores potential methods to awaken political engagement among Gen Z. Tim suggests that amplifying the failings of opposing leaders might galvanize young voters.

Tim Miller [56:46]:
"They would point out very small, specific things... It's like, that makes sense. To me, because you're not hearing any like, actual, like, common sense solutions to the problems that people are legit facing."

Ellie counters that providing tangible reasons to support policies, rather than solely opposing the other side, could be more effective.

Ellie Schnitt [52:26]:
"There are so many popular policies that liberal candidates or left wing candidates have run on that the Democratic Party can put forward and say, hey, here's Your thing."

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7. Cryptocurrency Policies and Political Corruption

A heated segment discusses the U.S. government's strategic Bitcoin reserve and its implications, with Ellie expressing skepticism about the transparency and motives behind crypto investments tied to political figures.

Cameron Caskey [29:20]:
"You were doing this podcast on a platform like that, I just think that that happened, but you were living it. So maybe I'm being warped by the Internet and that didn't actually happen."

Ellie Schnitt [30:42]:
"The easiest explanation for how all of these things are happening is Trump made a bunch of backdoor deals... Crypto is a really great way to make money illegally."

They discuss potential conflicts of interest and the lack of oversight in governmental crypto ventures.

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8. Ellie Schnitt’s Views on Foreign Aid and Nationalism

Ellie presents a controversial stance on U.S. foreign aid, advocating for unconditional support to Israel while opposing financial assistance to Ukraine.

Ellie Schnitt [61:21]:
"We should not send any money to foreign wars except Israel, where we should just send them all the money they want, no questions."

She warns against the continuing support for Ukraine, hinting at ulterior motives and questioning the morality of ongoing conflicts.

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9. Conclusions and Implications for U.S. Politics

The episode wraps up with reflections on the current state of the Republican and Democratic parties, emphasizing the need for authenticity and relatable policies to reconnect with Gen Z.

Tim Miller [55:58]:
"A lot of people that I was friends with, like, at that time... it's like, we have to give people something to vote for instead of something to vote against."

Cameron Caskey [79:56]:
"Stop sucking. Just be normal. That's it. Stop being."

The hosts advocate for moving beyond petty political battles to address substantive issues that matter to younger voters.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Cameron Caskey [03:33]:
  "I kind of wonder if like maybe like people a lot younger than me, like, don't even give a fuck about this."

• Ellie Schnitt [04:07]:
  "I think people are all over the place in my generation. Obviously, number one is always going to be apathy."

• Tim Miller [06:36]:
  "Trump has a pretty simple argument that I can understand how it might appeal to some young people, which is just like, no more wars."

• Ellie Schnitt [16:53]:
  "I think that one of the lessons we're learning here is American isolationism is even scarier when the people we're going to be isolated with are each other and each other sucks."

• Ellie Schnitt [61:21]:
  "We should not send any money to foreign wars except Israel, where we should just send them all the money they want, no questions."

---

Conclusion

Episode 3 of FYPod offers a deep dive into the intersection of Gen Z's political attitudes and international conflicts, questioning the efficacy of current political strategies and media narratives. Through candid discussions and expert insights, hosts Tim Miller and Cameron Caskey, alongside guest Ellie Schnitt, uncover the complexities of engaging America’s youngest voters in a rapidly changing geopolitical landscape.

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For more insightful discussions on America's youngest voters and their political dynamics, tune in weekly to FYPod.

Transcript

[Cameron Caskey]

Get the Angel REEF Special at McDonald's.

[Tim Miller]

Now let's break it down.

[Cameron Caskey]

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[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Cameron Caskey]

And don't forget the fries and a drink. Sound good.

[Ellie Schnit]

I participate in restaurants for a limited time.

[Ryan]

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[Ellie Schnit]

No purchase necessary BTW by law C terms and conditions 18 +. Hi, I'm Cameron Caskey. I'm Tim Miller and this is FY Pod. Welcome to FYPod, a show where Tim and I are really going to get into this whole Gen Z thing and try to figure it out. Normally I try to make these intros funny because I personally am very funny. But I'm very upset right now because I happen to live in the world and as part of the world, I'm starting to see it fall apart and it's not quite so fun. So we're gonna have a great guest on my ex girlfriend also many, many other great things. But you know, my ex girlfriend is gonna come on and we're gonna have a blast with her. But right now I am personally triggered as fuck and pissed because as I'm sure most normal human beings in the world feel after watching Trump melt down in front of Zelensky, I'm kind of like, what the fuck? But Tim, I think you're a bit older than I am, so you should.

[Cameron Caskey]

Yeah, well, I'm gonna ask. So this is interesting. I'm intrigued by this. This is what I wanted to pick your brain on. I want you to carry the segment apart because I tried as much as possible to not pay attention to the news this weekend because it's my husband's 40th, very much mid millennial and we got hammered and all of our wonderful friends go and we were filled with love and also in addition to alcohol. And so I was trying to check out from this though. That's challenging. But the thing is, we're at the bulwark [e-mail] it's very sensible that those of us here, former Republicans, Bill Clinton era liberals, would feel very strongly about NATO and, you know, about America and our role in the world and protecting Europe. But I do kind of wonder if like, maybe like people a lot younger than me, like, don't even give a fuck about this. Kind of like it's hard to care about this. Like there's isn't. There hasn't been any life experience that would make them care about this. There hasn't been any war in Europe, you know, since their grandparents were alive. And I've been encouraged to see you popping off on this and some others. So tell me, is there maybe something here? Is it possible that we could awaken Gen Zers from their slumber and that they might care about Europe and what is happening?

[Ellie Schnit]

When I'm talking about this, I might sound a lot more Mr. NATO than I actually am. But there's also a fucking point at which you have to say, gee, if certain alliances formed after World War II with the hopes of preventing world wars again, are those alliances perhaps things that we maybe ought to keep? Now I think that in terms of the apathy versus Ukraine deserved it versus maybe we should get the mineral rights from Russia and get rich off of it. I think people are all over the place in my generation. Obviously, number one is always going to be apathy. It's like the Murphy's Law of Gen Z. You know, if, if there is something that you can be pathetic about, we will be apathetic. But, you know, I don't think that's.

[Cameron Caskey]

How those words work though.

[Ellie Schnit]

I know, but I feel like you do know what I was going for.

[Cameron Caskey]

I do know you're going for. It was cute wordplay. I just, I think it was like not quite right, actually.

[Ellie Schnit]

So I think that obviously most of it with Gen Z is and always will be. We don't care. We don't care. It's not us getting hurt at somebody else. But I do think I saw a lot of sympathy for the people of Ukraine disappear over the years. And I think that the sentiment is largely. Look, this is, it's like Trump said, you don't hold the cars. You know, Ukraine is not the more powerful country here. So the war continuing on is something that Zelensky could end by giving Russia something right. And this is not how I feel. This is not me defending this position. I am of the belief that if you give a mouse a cookie, right, you know, if you, if you give Putin what he wants on this front, he's going to go in and he's going to take the next thing and all we are going to do is throw away decades of goodwill with allies of ours. But, you know, there are young people who are seeing this kind of simple message that, mind you got me for a second a couple of years ago of like, okay, well, if you're the less powerful country here, cut a deal. So now Trump is coming in screaming like a fucking baby making little bitch ass Marco Rubio do that grumpy, grouchy face that, by the way, I made him do as well when I was 17 years old. Marco has this face that he does when he's dissociating where he's like, for those who are only listening to the audio version, I'm making sort of a dissociation phase. But Marco is not good at hiding his feelings. Marco Rubio does not have a poker face. So when he's sitting there in this position he's gotten from this guy who has publicly cooked him over and over again, and Marco is like, am I the one who has to deliver the killing blow to the West? He makes this face where he's like. And it's really, really weird. But people are seeing Trump stamp his feet and scream about it. And they're so desperate to think that our losing country, you know, is the winner here, that they're like, man, Trump stood up to Zelensky and said, you have to end the war.

[Cameron Caskey]

So, yeah, here's what I wonder about this. And we have very little hope on this podcast. So it's an area where I guess I'm just exploring possible hope as far as the Gen Z mindset towards all this stuff. On the one hand, Trump has a pretty simple argument that I can understand how it might appeal to some young people, which is just like, no more wars. We shouldn't be involved in this war. This doesn't have anything to do with us. We shouldn't waste our money, blah, blah, blah. But on the other hand, like, the way in which he's handled it and like, the way the bitchiness which they've treated Zelensky like, it A, makes him like, just look like a petty little king, which is not really appealing. And B, it kind of allows for like a moral, like, one thing that I think is missing. We get to this a little bit with Ellie is like, in the, like, when I was growing up in like the, in the 2000s, like, young people kind of had like gay marriage in Iraq as ways to be like, hey, our parents were for this thing. And like, we are actually for these good liberal things. Instead being against Iraq and being for gay marriage. Like, the Democrats didn't really have that issue this cycle. Like, there wasn't really an issue where young people could feel like they got on the moral side besides democracy, which is, like, very esoteric and hard to recognize.

[Ellie Schnit]

I love democracy, by the way.

[Cameron Caskey]

Yeah, I know you do. So do I. But this is, like, a tangible thing maybe, where, like, if this keeps on going and, like, Trump sides with the bad guy who's, like, raping and pillaging people, that people could feel like, no, fuck this. Fuck this guy. This is bad. And people can kind of rally around something that they feel like they're morally on the right side of. I don't know. Do you think that's possible? Or am I being. Is that wish casting?

[Ellie Schnit]

There's an old Norm MacDonald joke that I love. I mean, there's a lot of old Norm MacDonald jokes that I love. There's one that I really love. Norm's.

[Cameron Caskey]

You've quoted, like, a 1990s movie in the next segment and say nothing. And now Norm MacDonald, a deceased comedian. So you're. You're really. You're appealing to our audience base with the. With the references that you're coming up with.

[Ellie Schnit]

So Norm's reading a book, right? And he's like, you know, it says here in this history book. Get this. Says here in this history book that luckily the good guys have won every single time. What are the odds? And I'm like, that's what's gonna happen with the Russia thing. It's, you know, America writes our own history from the perspective of us being the good guy. So I go through the American public school system, and I think, oh, America was there. The Holocaust happened. America saw the Holocaust and said, well, we better get on that. And then we. We beat the Nazis. And, you know, I remember when I was in kindergarten, I don't remember the exact lyrics, but there was a song I sang about Thanksgiving that included the lyric, the pilgrims and the Indians became best friends. So history is written by the winners. And for all I know, not that there's going to be a public school system by the time I have kids within the Next, let's say 18 months. But when my beautiful children, who are amazing, are going to be in the public school system, they very well might be reading a version of history that says, oh, you know, Russia was really upset for a while, but then Trump the conciliator came in and said, no, Russia, you're one of the good guys as well. Now, who fucking knows? Like, the way These narratives are spun. Brutal dictators are only brutal dictators if we say they are. And a perfect example for this is putting Zelensky up next to Netanyahu. So we've got America who we don't want to get involved with other countries wars. We don't want to be throwing money at other countries wars unless it's one country, in which case actually we will get involved and we will throw money in and we will go develop some real estate out there. But people are talking about how Zelensky is some sort of dictator because he's not holding elections during this wartime. And that brings to mind there's actually another leader right now that is not holding elections during a wartime. And I remember Chuck Schumer, the highest ranking Jewish man in the Democratic Party, one of the most powerful Jewish men in the world, was called a Jew hater by certain groups for calling on Netanyahu to hold a fair election. Ready for this when the war is over. Schumer said when the war is over, Netanyahu should hold a fair election. And certain pro Israel groups called Chuck Schumer, of all people, Chuck Schumer, by the way, and just, just a huge friend to Israel. Right? They called him a Jew hater. And I'm like, okay, the way these narratives are spun, dictators are dictators. When we say they are like words mean whatever the most powerful person in a situation says they mean. Like we are stripping words of their meaning and think so. So the way that Putin's characterized, it's just a matter of what, you know, what an administration like Trump's that can go in and fuck with the education system, what they're going to tell everybody it means.

[Cameron Caskey]

Because we have a podcast called the Shield of the Republic with foreign policy experts where they can go into the details of the Netanyahu election question. I'm going to leave that to them. I am more curious about the. It's a great podcast name for a serious foreign policy podcast, isn't it? The Shield of the Republic.

[Ellie Schnit]

Is that an actual.

[Cameron Caskey]

Oh yeah, that's an actual podcast that we host at the Bulwark.

[Ellie Schnit]

That sounds like a Star wars book series.

[Cameron Caskey]

Well, yeah, it could be a Star wars book series or a Bulwark foreign policy podcast. Huge numbers for Shield of the Republic over the weekend. Lots happening out there in the world. But the parallel I'm kind of more interested in when it comes to Israel, Palestine situation is you saw whatever side you were on of that, it tapped into people on an emotional level in a very real way. And you would see an outpouring of, you know, very strident opinions being shared about it on the very. On people's various social media platforms, even people that, like, are not particularly political. I guess that's what I'm trying to figure out is like, do we think that the little Oval Office tiff might result in, like, some of your friends posting the Ukraine flag onto their feeds or the black square or whatever? Or do we think that this is kind of like only something that's resonating for people who are, like, super into the news?

[Ellie Schnit]

I think one of the big differences that characterized how people my age reacted to Israel, Palestine after October 7th versus something like Ukraine is right now, a lot of people are upset about the way that President Trump humiliated all of us in front of Zelensky. A lot of people will be very upset when the United States backs out and withdraws support. But the thing about the war in Gaza specifically was the videos we were seeing online that were spreading around of the bombs dropping and of the people's lives being devastated by these terrible things. Those videos were. We saw these bombs that we were paying for dropping, whereas with Ukraine.

[Cameron Caskey]

Well, on the flip side, in the videos of the October 7th attack, too, you know? Right.

[Ellie Schnit]

Yeah. And unfortunately, unfortunately, I had to see a lot of those videos, which before a lot of the social media platforms were able to get rid of the gorier, more violent stuff from Hamas's attack, I saw a lot of those videos because I have this kind of morbid need to see things as they happen that I think came from being locked in a school shooting and seeing videos of the shooting while I was hiding from it. So when I was at Marjory Stillman Douglas High School and the shooting was happening, videos were going around on Snapchat of the carnage unfolding. And I saw it. And there was this psychological. I mean, I fortunately have specialists with whom I get into this regularly. So don't you all think I'm not dealing with this, but something in me, I guess, just made me say, oh, while there is a disaster and an emergency happening, I need to know what's going on. So when the news was first dropping about Hamas's attack, I was so terrified. I was at a bar called Busby's with a couple of my friends playing pool, and I was like, I have to go home. So I just went home and I just sat and I watched videos, and I could not believe what I was seeing. And it was so, so terrifying. And as somebody who's just, in many ways, I am uniquely triggered by violence. In many ways, I am desensitized to violence. It was a very strange experience for me. But, you know, like I said, so many videos were coming out from, from Gaza and what a lot of people were seeing was the fact that was this very understandable thing where the United States government was paying for these bombs with our tax, tax dollars. Whereas in Ukraine, the thing that we're paying for is this, is this defense that this country is, is trying to mount to, to protect themselves from this oppressive regime. So I don't know if you're going to be able to get the same knee jerk, immediate response to something that we're not doing as opposed to something that we are a much more active hand in.

[Cameron Caskey]

That makes sense. So.

[Ellie Schnit]

But again, it's crazy because you saw so many Ukraine flags back in 2022. Back in 2022, when, you know, Sleepy Joe was the president and we weren't defeatist, it was a different story. But I think that, you know, the biggest culprit here besides, you know, Vladimir Putin, the second biggest culprit here is Trump doomerism. I think that one of the reasons you'll see a lot of people in my generation not get upset about what's going on is the idea that, well, Trump's in office anyway, so we already lost. You know, so much of what people were protesting when it comes to Israel, Palestine with the Biden administration is the fact that Joe Biden is somebody who can be negotiated with and Donald Trump is not. So Joe Biden who can be negotiated with. People said we are going to protest because at its very worst, the Biden administration is one that at least has a sense of reason, politics and humanity that is not going to come out of Trump. So even Biden's biggest haters in this situation, they knew the Biden administration can see something and maybe change Trump. No. We lost.

[Cameron Caskey]

Ch.

[Tim Miller]

Ch.

[Ellie Schnit]

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[Georgia]

Hi, Georgia.

[David]

Hi, David. What do you think the world needs more of.

[Georgia]

Well, the world always needs more podcasts.

[David]

Didn't you used to have a podcast?

[Georgia]

Not only did I used to have a podcast, Georgia, it's coming back. David Tennant does a podcast with Season three is coming at you.

[Tim Miller]

Okay.

[David]

And who are your guests?

[Georgia]

Who are my guests? What about Russell T. Davis? What about Jamila Jamil? What about Stanley the Tooch Tucci?

[David]

So it's really just you hanging out with your mates then?

[Cameron Caskey]

Yeah.

[Georgia]

Come join me. David Tennant does a podcast with Bye.

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[Cameron Caskey]

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[Cameron Caskey]

Yeah, this kind of ties to just my general theory about everything, which is that like shit just has to get worse for the reaction to get bigger. And that's unfortunate. And it sometimes puts you in an awkward position of like not rooting for shit to get worse. But, like, when stuff gets worse, you're like, okay, well, maybe this is gonna be something that will, you know, trigger, like, finally a positive reaction to all this. But can we flip the table?

[Ellie Schnit]

Can I ask you a question? Because you asked me a lot of questions on this show.

[Cameron Caskey]

Flip it anytime.

[Ellie Schnit]

I want to be the Tim.

[Cameron Caskey]

Now, we're still working through the format. You know, we can flip it around.

[Ellie Schnit]

So, you know, I.

[Cameron Caskey]

Have you watched the third episode of Seinfeld? Terrible. It was terrible. Seinfeld didn't get good. Didn't really hit its stride until, like, season two, you know, Teddy, if you're.

[Ellie Schnit]

Listening to this, we'll have this conversation later. Tim and I have a mutual friend who's a Seinfeld head. So my question is, like, okay, I'm talking to people my age about how Trump's tantrum was a point of weakness for us and how strength is not in the damage you're able to deal to others. Strength is in the power you're able to share with others. But when it comes to how to characterize a moment like Trump's tantrum, how do you talk to somebody who sees that as him being a strongman?

[Cameron Caskey]

I think I would say, well, if he was so strong, why doesn't he do ever do that to Vladimir Putin? Right? Like, I mean, it's like, okay, if you want to sell me on the fact that, like, the strong. The way to be tough, the way to be a strong guy is like, shit talk people and belittle them and whatever, make them say, thank you, sir, please, sir. Well, then, okay, well, then do that to the bad guys, too, you know, because there's, like, this incoherence in what they're saying, which is like, we want diplomacy. So I have to be nice to Putin, but I can be really mean to Zelensky because he's vulnerable, and he has to take it right because we're helping him out. And, like, to me, like, that betrays somebody with a tiny penis. And so I think that's how I would try to talk about it. I don't know. Again, I don't know if that's gonna work. And I'll be interesting to get Ellie's take on this, too, because, like, some of the, like, so many of these guys, like, have been contaminated by the Internet and, like, where they think that the way. The best way to be. To be tough is to shit talk people and, like, call people names and stuff. And, like, that's, like, that's tough guy behavior on the Internet. I mean, I can't tell you how many times people always ask me. They're like, aren't you scared when you go to, like, Turning Point USA Events or Trump events or stuff? And I'm like, no. Like, these guys are almost never mean to my face. Like, almost never. Like, once in a blue moon, somebody will be mean to my face. But, like, they're all, like, wimps. But, like, they have projected that on the Internet. So I. So I don't know that this will be convincing, but that would be. What I would say is, like, okay, well, if you're so tough, like, let's, like, do it. Let's. Let's do it when it's challenging, not when it's, like, somebody that actually, like, needs us.

[Ellie Schnit]

The biggest badasses I've ever met in my life. And, you know, other than me, of course. Like, I know a lot of really tough dudes, and I swear to you, the strongest, not only in physical power, but in will and in character. The strongest people I know are always the ones who act the nicest and the most polite and the most gentle because they know that they're strong. They don't need to flail around to tell you how strong they are. They know who they are. I got this buddy, Chris, built like a mountain, and somebody bumped into a friend of ours at the club and went, hey. And Chris steps in and goes, oh, excuse me, sir. I think I must have bumped into you. My bad. The guy instantly just, like, melts away. He's like, oh, no, no, no. Totally. No problem at all. But, you know, it's strange with this. With this.

[Cameron Caskey]

So the analogy, Trump is the tough, fake tough guy and Putin is Chris. That's bad. That's not where you want to be.

[Ellie Schnit]

I'm not quite sure that's what I meant. I don't know if I was directly telling it, but to this. To this Trump, Putin, Zelensky thing, the thing I struggle with the most is explaining to people that, you know, Ukraine didn't start it, Right? Because people don't know about any ceasefire agreement that got violated in 2015. People see it as, Putin wants something. You know, maybe Putin doesn't deserve it. You know, maybe Russia shouldn't have Ukraine. But at the end of the day, what's this Zelensky guy going to do? Keep on sending people into the fucking meat grinder just for a war that can't be won? And I have a hard time arguing some of these more emotional reactions by saying it's about more than that.

[Cameron Caskey]

Yeah, I mean, I guess my response to that is like, while Trump's talking, point is the simplest about, like, what, you know, how he doesn't want war or whatever. Like, the simplest way to explain what happened is like, Putin is bad. Like, Putin is bad. Like, they wanted. They bombed city in Kyiv and Kharkiv and all these other cities, and these people had done nothing. They didn't do anything. They weren't trying to invade Russia. They weren't. It wasn't some war. It's not some old religious feud like in the Middle east or in Ireland or whatever. Like, it's just like Putin wanted to take Ukraine's land, and everybody thought he was going to be able to actually. And Ukraine fought.

[Ellie Schnit]

There's this defeatist take that people have that's like, okay, well, what are they supposed to do? Keep fighting and losing?

[Cameron Caskey]

Yeah. I mean, kind of. I don't know. Like, what if. What if, you know, fucking Mexico invaded San Antonio tomorrow and took it? Would we just be like, okay, whatever, you can have San Antonio. I don't know.

[Ellie Schnit]

Maybe what the people I'm talking to would say is, well, we could. We could beat Mexico. I don't know what to say to these people. It really is crazy because it's like, if you can't get folks to rally against Donald Trump, that is a nightmare. If you can't get folks to rally against Vladimir Putin, it's like every fucking person in this country became Steven Seagal overnight. And it's really fucking weird, but I'm quite concerned about it.

[Cameron Caskey]

Apologist part of Steven Seagal. Not like the movie character?

[Ellie Schnit]

No, no, no.

[Cameron Caskey]

Not if we all became Steven Seagal the movie character, then we might be in better shape.

[Ellie Schnit]

Okay, well, you should watch his more recent discography. You might feel differently, but, yeah, I guess I'm not. That's been very upsetting to me. And I think that one of the lessons we're learning here is, you know, American isolationism is even scarier when the people we're going to be isolated with are each other and each other sucks. So, like, you know, if we're not going to have any allies, I'm even more upset about that because I don't want to be friends with us. But, you know, it'll. It'll be interesting to see what the next couple. For me, it's just like, what the fuck are the Republicans doing? And I know that that's a hot take here on the Bulwark, but this is the party. This is a party that has spent the past half Century idolizing this guy that they call the Gipper and the Gipper, Mr. Ronald Reagan, he had this thing where he used to go to the Russians and stick it to him, right? The Republican Party used to be like, hey guys, we're the guys who are better at taking out Russia than the Dems.

[Cameron Caskey]

This is another thing that I would say to these people that are like, oh, what do you want from what? Like, he just doesn't want peace. He's a tough guy. He's talking tough. Going back to your. Like, what should you say to them? Be like, yeah, talk tough to Russia. That is what Reagan did. He called him the evil empire. Reagan didn't. We didn't. We funded various counterinsurgencies and various like little proxy wars, of course, but like, we didn't fight, send any troops. And he's. And he called them names. He didn't call Poland names. You know, like that's, that seems very simple. Like the process would seem to be very simple for like a Republican type to understand. But. But no, I don't know. No, they're all folding. They're all pathetic. It's embarrassing. Can I get your take on two things really quick before we get to Ali?

[Ellie Schnit]

Of course.

[Cameron Caskey]

I want to know what you think about the strategic bitcoin reserve that we are going to be doing where the United States is going to purchase with taxpayer money a lot of Solana and Eth. And I guess I can understand why super crypto Bros. Would like this, but. But I, I don't. Is that not. Are other people not going to think this is very dumb and stupid and a grift and bad. Like I was, I was told we were very upset about Hunter Biden's grifts. Shouldn't we be upset?

[Ellie Schnit]

No, it's just a grift and it brings, it makes me wonder how many of these deals were made during the, you know, before the election. How many of these agreements between Trump and these larger crypto backdoor powers were made a long time ago? You know, Trump has known a lot of stuff that we don't know for quite a bit. I think that when Trump told his crowd, don't worry about the, the next, the next election, you aren't even going to have to vote. I think that he had actually heard something. I think that maybe there was something that he knew. And I think that it's not a very. I don't think it requires a lot of speculation to say that Trump made a lot of backdoor agreements with different crypto powers that be in order to get himself.

[Cameron Caskey]

This is how we become the Joe Rogan of the left cam. We're going to start wildly speculating about things.

[Ellie Schnit]

Is that a wild speculation?

[Cameron Caskey]

No, I'm totally with you. Like, right. I'm totally with you.

[Ellie Schnit]

I know there's a little thing. Dave Rubin doesn't know what it is, but there's a little thing called Occam's Razor. And for me, you know, the easiest explanation for how all of these things are happening is Trump made a bunch of backdoor deals, and it's with a bunch of people who want to make a lot of money. And crypto is a really great way to make money illegally.

[Cameron Caskey]

Yeah, well, and we have already seen this. He bailed. Like, where there's a Chinese crypto. Crypto magnate who put in 50 million into various Trump crypto schemes, and now the SEC isn't investigating him anymore. I don't know. No, I don't know, man. Eric Trump tweeted by the dip last week and then a couple regarding crypto, and then a couple of days later, like, they announced the strategic reserve, and everything's up again. Like, I think it is very, very obvious and likely that he has a scam that is personally, personally enriching himself that I just don't know. Like, I don't know how to get that. But the problem is, is that people that understand what I'm even talking about when I say Solana, most of them are, like, happy that the crypto is going up. And then the people that you need to explain the corruption to, like, like, their eyes glaze over as soon as you say, you know the word blockchain. And I'm not gonna lie, when you.

[Ellie Schnit]

First said it, I thought you were saying Solange, and I was like, oh, Solange.

[Cameron Caskey]

Oh, yeah, we like her. Like, Solange, she got. She got married in the same. Same place I did. Hell, yeah. Shout Out, Marine Opera House. What? Yeah, so I do think that's a problem. I don't know. But, you know, you invested in some doge, apparently, so. So you maybe you could understand why it's bad.

[Ellie Schnit]

We talk about it on the segment with Ali Schneid the Great.

[Cameron Caskey]

Well, this will just leave that as a teaser. All right.

[Ellie Schnit]

I did crypto once, and it was before we knew that it was bad, or at least before I knew that it was bad. And you know what? God damn it, it paid my rent that month. Sue me.

[Cameron Caskey]

So this is just. Why just. It's the thing that leads me into nihilism the most. So Many fucking idiots have gotten rich on this stuff. It's unbelievable.

[Ellie Schnit]

I got twelve hundred dollars.

[Cameron Caskey]

You got a rent out of it.

[Ellie Schnit]

That was back when you could pay very little for rent. And I got $1,200.

[Cameron Caskey]

Think about the broier version of Cameron. Like your alter ego that like really just went deep on Doge and like, and made that their whole personality. Like they have like a fuckboy house.

[Ellie Schnit]

I'm glad that you're not. I'm glad you're not gendering the bro version of me just in case the bro version of me is also a gender.

[Cameron Caskey]

Non conforming bro version of me could be a gender. Not. This could be a non binary, but like they have a. Well, no, I did end up gendering them by cut by saying that they had a fuckboy pad, but I guess they could have a fuck they pad in Fort Lauderdale. Okay, well, that's sad. I want one. One happy thing. Did you have. Are you happy about Anora? Did you see an aura?

[Ellie Schnit]

Yeah. I thought Anora was a good movie. I thought that there were a lot of good movies that could have won best picture this year. And I didn't have any piping hot takes necessarily. I was obviously partial to Wicked. I have all the. I have the Wicked LEGO set in my room, but.

[Cameron Caskey]

You have a wicked LEGO set in your room?

[Ellie Schnit]

Yeah, it's. So I haven't completed it yet. This is the Jeff Goldblum character. Jeff Goldblum, as you know, is from Jurassic Park. He played the wizard of Oz. I happen to be a pretty big Wicked fan because I'm the man and I'm awesome and I like cool shit. Yeah, but no, I thought that. I thought Honora was a great movie. I thought that its win was great for independent films because, you know, you only get so many movies these days with small budgets that get the time of day. And I think that filmmaking is very important. Storytelling is very important. So a movie like that winning Best Picture is great. Shawn Baker is one hell of a filmmaker.

[Cameron Caskey]

And next year, Mikey Madison was great. Mikey Madison was great. I don't feel like I can judge whether or not the Russian twink was a good actor or not just because I might have biased goggles on that. But Mikey Madison, she was amazing.

[Ellie Schnit]

Because. Positive bias because he's a hot twink or negative bias because he's Russian?

[Cameron Caskey]

Both, I guess. Right? Yeah. I have a lot of preconceived norms that are affecting my ability to judge him.

[Ellie Schnit]

There was this article about him where people were comment. There was this article that was like, ooh, this new young Russian actor really is the new hot thing. And people were commenting like, oh, so we're just celebrating Russians now? And I was like, oh, my God, guys, we're like, Russia too now. Like, we're bad. And if anybody wants to make an article about how I'm a cute twinkle, I hope you guys let them.

[Cameron Caskey]

And the Canadians will now boo you in the comments. Oh, we're celebrating Americans now. All right, go see a norf. You haven't. Up next, Cams X Ellie Schnit. It's gonna be really good.

[Ellie Schnit]

Ellie Schnit is a blogger. She's been a journalist for a long time. She really is one of the funnier people on the Internet. I heard her talking. My college friend back in the day was listening to her podcast, Schnittalk, and I was listening to a little clip of it. I was like, oh, this is just some girly podcast. And then she just was rattling off these jokes, and I'm like, wait, she is so funny. Who is this? So my college friend showed me her Twitter and I said, oh, she is so pretty. Who is this? And then I followed her and we kind of exchanged on Twitter for a couple years. And then, you know, a couple years later, we dated for eight months and I blew it. Stick around. You might.

[Cameron Caskey]

I'm glad you overcame your internalized misogyny about the fact that girls can't be funny enough to go ahead and ask her out.

[Ellie Schnit]

Okay. Just because she can't stop me from saying she's gonna listen to this episode, obviously, because she's on it. I will say, ellie, you can hear me right now. I think that I'm funnier in person, but I think that Ellie is funnier written down. Her tweets are funnier. Her texts are funnier, you know, but I think in the moment, I'm funnier. And Lori Baker Schnitman, you are an amazing woman. I have so much respect for you. I think I'm funnier than your daughter.

[Cameron Caskey]

Congrats, Ellie. Stick around.

[Ryan]

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[Ellie Schnit]

No purchase necessary. BTW, see terms and conditions 18 +.

[Georgia]

Hi, Georgia.

[David]

Hi, David. What do you think the world needs more of?

[Georgia]

Well, the world always needs more podcasts.

[David]

Didn't you used to have a podcast?

[Georgia]

Not only did I used to have a podcast, Georgia, it's coming back. David Tennant does a podcast with season three. It's coming at you.

[David]

Okay, and who are your guests?

[Georgia]

Who are my guests? What about Russell T. Davis? What about Jamila Jamil? What about Stanley the Tooch Tucci?

[David]

So it's really just you hanging out with your mates then?

[Cameron Caskey]

Yeah.

[Georgia]

Come join me. David Tennant does a podcast with. Bye.

[Cameron Caskey]

Hey, y'all. We are back with Ellie Schnit. We finally invited a woman onto the podcast. Cameron is blushing already in the green room, and so I'm excited to kind of get going. Well, actually, I don't know, Ellie. Are you also bisexual? Everyone we've had on the podcast so far is bisexual.

[Tim Miller]

I am, as far as I know, not bisexual.

[Cameron Caskey]

Wow. All right. We are really branching out now. Okay. We're kind of changing people. We had some complaints that the pod was too gay so far.

[Tim Miller]

So here's to be the heterosexual voice of reason.

[Ellie Schnit]

Diversity. Hire a straight person.

[Tim Miller]

I am the DEI hire today. I'm a woman. I'm straight.

[Cameron Caskey]

That is great. Well, I want you to tell us about yourself for people. Cameron knows you quite well, but the listeners might not. Maybe tell us a little bit about. You were at Barstool for a while. It looks like you're an E girl now. Can you just tell us a little bit about your kind of life story?

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, sure. So, yeah, my name is Ellie Schnit. I had a podcast at Barstool in 2018. I quit in 2020.

[Cameron Caskey]

What was the podcast?

[Tim Miller]

The podcast was called Schnit Talk, and it was a dating and lifestyle mental health, that kind of thing. And after that, I left. I've been working for myself and I have a podcast called Late Night Drive with my best friend Mikayla Oakland, who's also an influencer. And I've done a bunch of really cool things I've had the opportunity to do, but I'm really excited to be here.

[Cameron Caskey]

Is the podcast like. Kind of like the podcast that's on the Netflix show with Seth Cohen?

[Tim Miller]

The one with Kristen Bell? Yeah, yeah, I guess it was back in the day, yeah.

[Cameron Caskey]

Okay. Well, I would assume yours is better than theirs. What was that? What's the show called? Sebastian, do we know what that show is called?

[Tim Miller]

Nobody wants this.

[Cameron Caskey]

We'd have to get this right. Nobody wants this. As a podcaster, have you. So have you watched it, Ellie?

[Tim Miller]

No, I don't.

[Cameron Caskey]

You haven't seen an episode. Okay. As a podcaster, it's kind of offensive. It's kind of like, I guess if a doctor is watching a doctor show like Grey's Anatomy or something like. This is not how it works. Like, as a podcaster, I was very mad. Their mic, like, they were very, like, haphazard with their mics. You know, the mics were going everywhere, and I just didn't. I didn't think it was that. Well, I'd love. I mean, I love Adam Brody, so nothing against him, but, yeah, some of the. They needed a consultant, and I'm available, Adam. Okay, one more thing before I pass it off to you guys. What is. Talk to me about your politics. You know, are you just like a basic resist lib or a socialist anarchist like our. Like Dylan, or do you have any other.

[Tim Miller]

No, I am not a hashtag Resist Lib. I am. Yeah. And no offense to those people who may or may not be listening, I would say I'm more of whatever Hasan piker is pretty much. That's sort of my politics. No. Yeah, I would definitely. I'm much more on the leftist socialist side. Not so much the anarcho communist side, but further to that way.

[Cameron Caskey]

So were you Pro Luigi? I was at a Mardi Gras party I was at on Friday. Somebody was dressed as Saint Luigi. And I don't know. That was kind of a no for me.

[Tim Miller]

That's a no for you?

[Cameron Caskey]

Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

You know what? So I just got a kidney transplant and, you know, but. And I have uhc. And let me just tell you, I get it. I understand why he did what he did, and I have. I really. Although I. There's no evidence that says it is him and innocent until proven guilty.

[Cameron Caskey]

My God. Oh, my God.

[Ellie Schnit]

It's called the legal system, Tim. It's called the rule of law. Some people in this country still respect that.

[Tim Miller]

Some of us do.

[Cameron Caskey]

I respect it. I respect. And he will have a jury of his peers, which is nice. Would you. Is that. Was that something that you're going to respect, Cam? If the jury of the peers. Listen, I remember guilty.

[Ellie Schnit]

I remember back in the day, there was a man named Orenthal James Simpson. And do you know how many career rushing yards he had?

[Cameron Caskey]

Quite a lot. You know, probably like 12,000.

[Ellie Schnit]

It was a lot. I don't really Know, but the point is, the United States legal system has never failed, nor will it ever.

[Tim Miller]

And like they say, if the glove does not fit, you must acquit.

[Cameron Caskey]

Can I just say, people said this podcast was too gay. And you just asked me to name O.J. simpson's career rushing yards, and I guessed 12,000, and I just googled it. 11,000, 236. Fuck yeah. This is a butch podcast from the manosphere. Okay, we might have to come back to Luigi, but we're supposed to talk to you about Manosphere. So you're at barstool. You left. But like, you know, you know these guys, you know, these bros, and we're trying to understand why your man Hasan has some appeal, has some people, is doing well with young folks, but then while also, like the terrible maga. Whatever Crypto bros have also have been gaining appeal. And so we're looking for some anthropological analysis from you on that, Ellie, of.

[Tim Miller]

Why the manosphere is successful.

[Cameron Caskey]

Yeah. What do you think? Yeah, just give us your broadest take.

[Ellie Schnit]

I don't know, it's like, I feel like in the years, specifically since you, Ellie, have been so active online, those have been the years that the manosphere has went from what we once knew it as to what it has become. And those are the years that, you.

[Tim Miller]

Know, I. I think that that that's a kind of. Kind of a narrow. And I'm not saying that you're incorrect. It's gotten a lot worse in the last couple years, but it's more of a horseshoe than you would think that it is. Sorry, my dog.

[Ellie Schnit]

Just.

[Tim Miller]

I would say that you have to keep in context that there has always been this sort of like right wing alpha male space on the Internet. When you look at things that happen, like Gamergate, if you're unfamiliar, it was. I was a little. It was a little before my time as well, but that kind of like, we hate. Am I allowed to swear?

[Cameron Caskey]

Oh, fuck yeah.

[Tim Miller]

Okay, great. Okay. Yeah, like, you know, fuck feminists and triggered whatever, and they're trying to feminize or video games or like, whatever. Like there was that kind of vitriol and there was that kind of popularity in that space. Space. It's just that we had like a weird. We had like a weird five years where people were like, actually, no. And that's. That's bad and that's wrong. And it is bad and it's wrong. But, like, I feel like we're actually. What's happening right now is not so much a new thing as it is a Return to form. And. And I think we're seeing that in a lot of spaces.

[Cameron Caskey]

And.

[Tim Miller]

And that's my take on the manosphere is there have always been men who want to feel like everything that they think that they're superior in some way, inherently superior in some way. Especially young white men want to feel like there is that superiority. And I think that has always been a safe space on the Internet. It's just. It's just. It's a return to form.

[Cameron Caskey]

Yeah. That kind of asked to what led to what I was kind of wondering. Right. So, I mean, I kind of feel like if you were doing whatever, sex podcasting, relationship culture, advice culture, podcasting on Barstow in 2018, you know, like, you probably sensed that this could reemerge by, you know, some of the feedback that you were getting, but maybe not, I don't know, like, what was it like to be a woman that is like, podcasting in that space? Like, what kind. What kind of things were you hearing from listeners, commenters?

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, yeah, sure.

[Cameron Caskey]

It was very positive. You heard a lot of positive feedback about your. Your integrity as a person.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, they really respected my. My art and my work. And any negative comments were surely about. Were surely about that. No, it was obviously, like, awful. Like, the feedback, their Reddit page and like, just what people would say. Sorry, I just, like, got lost in thought of, like, some of the horrible, like, threads that I read about myself. What was the original question?

[Cameron Caskey]

Yeah, I just. Well, yeah, I mean, this was the original question is that, like, what did the kind of feedback that you were getting back then, Right. Like, what you were hearing from people and it, like, you knew that there was an appetite out for this. An appetite there for this kind of whatever you want to call it, anti woke. Like, anti me too. Kind of masculine, tough, Andrew Tate, like, tough guy stuff. I assume that you could have had a sense that that was bubbling underneath the surface just by the feedback you were getting. Like, having a podcast on this, on a platform like that, I just, you.

[Tim Miller]

Know, I wouldn't even say bubbling under the surface. Like, I think that there was all, like, that was. That was always there. Like, that is something that has been popular in media, all media, for forever, for always. And, like, it was again, I just, I think that we're, like, experiencing, like, a weird, like. Like, people were, like, trying to be woke for a couple of years. Like, they really were. Like, even like, when. When I worked at Barstool, like, it was very much like the. The idea was like, you know, we're not political like, we are not going to cover any politics in general. Like, we, we have our opinions and we have our things that we talk about, but never cover politics in any kind of serious way. And I. So I feel like that was the way at that time that people who had more like right leaning or more like masculine, like pro anti feminist, like leaning things would do because it was like embarrassing for some reason at that time in the culture. Like there was a sense of shame for people who behaved that way.

[Cameron Caskey]

Yeah, I wonder. This is gonna maybe kind of seem like I'm blaming woke people for wearing too short of a skirt or whatever. Like, I'm not really like blaming woke people for this, but I do wonder, like, because in this period you're talking about in 2018, like, I, I know the. Pardon my take, guys, okay? Like over at barstool, like PFT and Big Cat and them, and they're like, their show is not political. Like, it's just sports. And like some of the. And like PFT is like obviously kind of liberal and like they had like some liberal people around. Right. And that. And I think that there was like a group that was kind of like, oh, I'm still into the bro. You know, we're going to cuss and we're going to say pussy and stuff. But like, we're still liberal, right? Like, we're still not. Like, I'm not for like these weird, crazy, like right wing, you know, Christian guys. Like, I'm not that. And I do think like that somehow kind of evolved, right? Where like there was that something happened during the period that you're talking about where it was cool to be woke or whatever, or there's some shame. Like there was some category of people that were not really particularly conservative, they were anti woke and irreverent and whatever, and they got turned off to such a degree by the woke stuff that now they're like, they might as well be wearing a MAGA hat and they've been kind of radicalized. I'm not necessarily blaming woke people for that, but to me it feels like that happened, but you were living it. So maybe I'm being warped by the Internet and that didn't actually happen.

[Tim Miller]

I think that if you are such a person for whom being kind of annoyed by like wokeness is enough to make you into like a Trump supporter or whatever. You were already there, you know, because like, I am very irritated a lot of the time by like overly woke things. And like there's a lot, like there are things that I agree with and There are things that I'm like, let's. Okay. You know, like, I'm annoyed by the left. I. I think the left. The infighting that a lot of the left is doing, and, like, the way that it. There's, like, the purity testing, I find very annoying, but I'm not. I'm. I would never become a right winger because that's not what I believe.

[Cameron Caskey]

Yeah.

[Ellie Schnit]

I was saying this while we're talking about some Covid stuff on last week's episode.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah.

[Ellie Schnit]

I feel the same way. I feel the same way when there are people who say that they are liberal people, but they're voting for Trump because of Israel. It's like, no, no, no. You were gonna do that the whole time. You were just looking for an excuse.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. You would not be able to stomach it otherwise. You just wouldn't. But then again, I know that there's a lot of people who, like, when you are someone who cares a lot about politics and is engaged with politics and is in sort of the online spaces that talk about politics, it can be really insular. And you feel like, well, of course everyone cares about politics, and everyone talks about it. Everyone knows about it. But I actually do think that there are a lot of that are just kind of like. I don't know, he kind of said, like, this thing I kind of agreed with, and I'm gonna vote that way.

[Cameron Caskey]

Yeah. So those are who I want to talk about. Right. Because, like, the people that are, whatever, listening to Matt Walsh's podcast and like, asking strangers on the street, what is a woman? Like, these are not gettable people, you know, Like. But I do think that, you know that some folks that were. That maybe are still in your world. I don't know. That were in your world when you were doing barstool podcasting. Like, there are some people out there that are just like, not that political conservatism never really appealed to them, particularly when it was churchy. And then something happened around Black Lives Matter and Wokeness and MeToo, where they're still not that political. But rather than being turned off by the churchy right wingers, they're kind of turned off by the preachy left wingers. And I feel like those people are maybe gettable, I don't know, but that there's something about what happened in the culture that drove them off.

[Ellie Schnit]

Well, you get them by giving them something. Right. Like, there are so many popular policies that liberal candidates or left wing candidates have run on that the Democratic Party can put forward and say, hey, here's Your thing, right. Like President Obama had Obamacare and that was a thing for people to get. And with he also getting rid of.

[Cameron Caskey]

Gay marriage and Iraq, which were much more like visceral kind of things, Getting rid of gay marriage support, getting rid of gay marriage fans, we could also get rid of gay marriage. We should get rid of gay marriage.

[Ellie Schnit]

I'm pretty sure he did say during the debates, like, marriage is between a man and a woman.

[Cameron Caskey]

He did, but he ended up coming around on that. But he had. Those are cultural things that he had totally.

[Ellie Schnit]

But what I'm saying, I guess, is like Harris 2024 had the kind of woke speak type of preachy liberalism that we're talking about right now. And it also didn't have something to kind of dangle in front of everybody and say, hey, here's something we might be able to do together. Right. I've said it before. It's, we're not going back. Don't ask us where we're going, but we're not going back. We're just wherever we're going, it's not that way. And unfortunately it didn't work. So it was like, look, maybe with all of the pedantic woke talk, you actually can engage voters if you give them something to vote for. But if all you're giving them is this type of preachy language and you're not saying, also, here's what's going to happen with your health care, also here's what we're going to do to make the economy work for you and stop all of these billionaires who happen to be running the world. If you can give people something, maybe they can see past all of the woke language. And I think, which annoys me too, I mean, I happen to be one of the biggest users of pedantic woke speak, whether it's me being sincere or me being ironic, it's kind of a flip a coin situation. But, you know, I think that that type of stuff people will be able to see through if they just know what to look for.

[Tim Miller]

A lot of people that I was friends with, like, at that time. Yeah. And Cam, I do, I do think you're, you're right about giving people something to vote for instead of something to vote against. But I, I agree that they, they point, they would point out very small, specific things like really, like the egg prices or no tax on tips or like whatever dumb was going on over there. They would find one thing that they liked and then they would be like, well, that's my reason. Like, that makes sense. To me, because you're not hearing any like, actual, like, common sense solutions to the problems that people are legit facing. Like, I don't know. I think there's also a preaching it, like, it's good to tell people to like, be, you know, don't try not to hurt people's feelings and try not to be an and whatever. And a very different thing to be preached at. And I do feel a lot of, especially this last campaign was the Democrats being like, the economy's numbers are good, so I don't know what you're complaining about. And meanwhile, Trump was like, and we're gonna kill everybody and your taxes are gonna be lower. And it's like, that works.

[Cameron Caskey]

Okay, so we're gonna put you in the bucket of it's hopeless. And there's no possible way to get the boys back. No, the boys are bad.

[Tim Miller]

The boys are gettable. My idea, honestly, is that like, we need to like, lean into, like, how like, icky and like, gross and like, cringy. The right wing is like, Americans are very like, preoccupied with coolness and not wanting to be perceived as cringe and not wanting to be whatever. And yeah, it's right now cringy to be like, kind of woke, you know, like, you want people to have something to be like, no, I want to be like the cool kids. I want to be in the cool camp. I want to be like those people. You want to make them make it aspirational in such a way. And I think we do that by being a lot meaner to these freaks.

[Cameron Caskey]

Okay, now you're speaking my language because Cameron is totally wrong. People do not actually respond to policy incentives.

[Tim Miller]

Well, I agree with that. I think they do.

[Cameron Caskey]

People do not respond to positive policy incentives and they do respond to nagging the other side harder. And I think the Democrats should do it.

[Ellie Schnit]

You don't need to fully. Cameron is wrong that because you know, I'm always here to neg the other side. I've called Marco Rubio cuck so many times this week.

[Cameron Caskey]

Speaking of which, Ella, you did a tweet and I'm proud of you for still being on X. You're like, we're going to be the.

[Tim Miller]

Last Japanese soldiers on X. I'm doing the violin. As the Titanic is sinking, we will.

[Cameron Caskey]

Be there shit talking MAGA people until the last dog dies. You wrote this. JD Vance is such a petulant child. It's honestly hard to listen to him talking without hearing quote, you didn't say thank you to daddy. We don't Want to play with you anymore. Okay, buddy? Lol. This is what I'm talking about. I like this, right? Like, J.D. vance is a little bitch. He's not manly. Like, he was like, oh, say thank you to me. Like, I feel like that's taking my.

[Tim Miller]

Ball and going home. Like, he's just like, oh, God.

[Cameron Caskey]

Okay, so here's my worry, though. Aren't all of the petulant boys that, like, made fun of you on Reddit, don't they like that? Don't they like J.D. vance's little bit? Like, they say that they want to be manly, but don't they, like, kind of like, witchy, bitchy bully manliness?

[Tim Miller]

They like witchy, bitchy bully manliness, but he doesn't have that. He's just, like, gross and lame. Like, I don't know. It bothers me how, like, he's so skin crawlingly unlikable. Like, it's like him and Elon, too, where I'm like, no one's looking at that and being like, ew. You know?

[Cameron Caskey]

Like, elon has sired 14 children, so.

[Tim Miller]

Okay. Not by having sex with women. Let's be very clear on that.

[Ellie Schnit]

Even. Even my. Even my friends who Trump seems to resonate with one in one way or another, Nobody acts like J.D. vance is cool. J.D. vance is a fucking dweeb. And I think that he and Elon are doing a lot of good work to highlight and elucidate just how terribly uncool they are over there. And I think that they're very great targets. I think the best thing about Elon as a target for negging is that it really does bother him and he does not hide it. Even the most random people tweeting negative things about Elon Musk, it seems to really trigger him really hard, and he seems to have very, very dramatic meltdowns. But JD Is definitely a great target because there is not an ounce of charisma in him. You know, while the Democrats are saying, ooh, who's the charismatic guy we could put forth to combat the Republicans, how can we finally find JD Vance is right there being the actual opposite. What's. What's surprising me is that Trump invites him to anything anymore. Truly. When he. When Trump was ripping the west and all of our alliances apart, sitting there with Zelensky, I saw JD And I said, why is it. Why am I relieved that it's not Elon?

[Cameron Caskey]

Hmm. Yeah, well, you were wrong about that, Jason. Well, I guess. I don't know. Elon probably would have been just as petulant I do wonder. Ellie, I'm curious. Well, I guess both of you. Cameron just shouted out our alliances. You defended Zelensky. This is warming my neocon heart. But you also said you're a Hasan piker fan. So I'm just wondering, do you guys actually care about Ukraine or is it just like a vessel for, you know, for being anti Trump? Right. Like outside of the context of Trump and Vance, like, do you feel strongly about the fact that we should defend Ukraine or.

[Tim Miller]

Oh, the fact that we should defend. Sorry, I was confused. I was like, do I care that there's like a war? Like, yeah, yeah, of course, of course.

[Cameron Caskey]

Like policy wise, like, do you think that we should do, like. Yeah, I mean, does it matter?

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, I think, like, if you have the ability to help people who need help, you should do it. That's sort of. If your politics aren't based in compassion, then what are your.

[Cameron Caskey]

It's like the moral imperative.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, I mean, I don't, I'm not someone who, I can't sit here and talk to you about foreign policy particularly intelligently. But I mean, I don't. I think, of course we should do that. They're asking for help, they need help. We should help them.

[Ellie Schnit]

I think more important than that, more important than any morals or anything like that, I think that we should not send any, any money to foreign wars except Israel, where we should just send them all the money they want, no questions. Whatever they do with the money, that's up to them. We don't know better than them. And not just them, I mean specifically Prime Minister Netanyahu. So we should not be involved with the Ukraine. We shouldn't give them a penny. We shouldn't even answer their calls. Something's going on.

[Cameron Caskey]

I'm bringing, I'm bringing on a Zionist twink onto this podcast in four weeks and you guys are going to hash this out together. And you guys are going to have.

[Ellie Schnit]

And you know what? We are going to see eye to eye. No matter what.

[Cameron Caskey]

We have a three way then, you know, Noah Schnapp. Noah is not coming on.

[Ellie Schnit]

Bring Noah Schnapp on. Bring me Noah Schnapp. Give me five minutes with him. We will have a great time. And you know what? He and I are going to see eye to eye because like I said, foreign policy, Ukraine, any of those other countries. None of our, none of our business. But if Israel needs money, we don't say how much. We say, tell us how much so we can double it.

[Tim Miller]

And then we say, thank you, Daddy. Sorry, that was mean. But you know, that's how I feel about it.

[Cameron Caskey]

Okay. Ellie, I want to. Speaking of daddies and having to do everything that daddy says, I'm curious what you think about, like, the trad wives vibe among women. Do you have any, like, trad wives chicks that listen to your podcast? Or, like, do you have any battles with them? Or, like, what's your. What's, like, what do you think? What do you feel like out there?

[Tim Miller]

What do I feel like about.

[Cameron Caskey]

Yeah, what's, like, happening? What's happening out there? Is that real? I guess that's another thing. I can't tell if it's real that there are some women that want to return to Little House on the Prairie and, like, have ambiguously gay husbands, like Harrison Butker, tell them what to do, or if that's not really true. And there are, like, just a lot of guys on the Internet that are pretending like that as a trend.

[Tim Miller]

I think it's a little bit. It's six of one, half dozen of the other, you know. Okay. There is a degree of, like, performative right wing feminism that goes on where it's like, me, I would make my husband eggs from our chickens that I grew myself or whatever. Like, there is a degree where these women are trying to appeal to conservatives. It's like sort of a pick me situation. And then I also think that there's like a. I don't know, as the culture becomes more conservative, like, it's, it's. It just makes sense. It's like a reaction where women are like, well, maybe this, this would be good in the way that men become radicalized to be, like, awful. You know, women are radicalized to be like, well, maybe I should stay home and grow crops or like, whatever. I don't really know what, like, their whole thing is, but I do think it is an online thing. It is like a performative thing, but it's rippling to real women who don't know that it's like a performative thing. If that makes sense.

[Cameron Caskey]

It does. That's alarming. All right, we've got to get to the Boomer mailbag section in the Gen Z News. But before we do that, I just have a coup couple more personal questions for you. And the first one is about the kidney transplant. I just wanted to hear more about that. Like, how are you doing? What was your association with the healthcare system that made you filled with murderous rage, et cetera?

[Tim Miller]

To be clear, I was nowhere near the uhcc, actually. I was in surgery that day. I woke up to that and I.

[Cameron Caskey]

Was like, so you have an alibi.

[Tim Miller]

It's crazy. Yeah.

[Cameron Caskey]

You have an alibi.

[Tim Miller]

It's not.

[Cameron Caskey]

Because I would make a great script if it was true that he. That he had a couple of, like, podcast went, like, podcast chicks that, like, helped. Helped Luigi.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah.

[Cameron Caskey]

That would make for a great movie.

[Tim Miller]

I went and I did. I shot the guy, and then I went back for surgery, like, immediately after, and it was like, she couldn't have done that. No. Yeah. So I was born with chronic kidney disease, polycystic kidney disease. I have had, like, declining kidney function throughout my life. Probably the last, like, five years. It's been really rough, but, like, I wasn't bad enough. You have to be, like, bad, bad. Like, so my kidney function was, like, 25%. It has to be, like, 10% for you to, like, be eligible. But yeah, finally, like, the last, like, two years have been really sick. And then I finally. They found me a live donor, someone who donated, and I got my transplant on December 3rd. Actually, today is three months exactly. And I'm.

[Cameron Caskey]

Congrats. How are you feeling?

[Tim Miller]

I feel great. It's a. It's a really magical thing, modern healthcare.

[Cameron Caskey]

When you don't have kidney, like, what. When your kidney isn't functioning, like, what does. What's the experience? Like, what can you not do?

[Tim Miller]

You know, your kidneys filter your urine and they filter your blood, so they. They do a lot. And when you're. When they don't work, you know, it's like when your kidneys fail, your body starts to fail. Right. Like, all the systems are sort of connected, but your kidneys do a lot. So really, it was just like a fatigue thing. It was like, depending on how. How it affects your body, things can be. You know, people, like, lose the density of their bones and they break their bones really easily. I was really anemic. I was at a point last whole last year where I could do basically one thing every week. It was like, I was like, okay, I have to save my energy to go out one time. And that's what I'm doing this week. And that obviously is not a great way to live. And, yeah, kidneys do a lot. So thank your kidneys and drink a lot of water.

[Cameron Caskey]

Okay, I'm going to hydrate. I want to do a very smooth transfer from kidney failure into dating Cameron Caskey. That's some similarities there. I'm just curious what was, like, the worst part about that that you'd like to share? Is there any negative memories about him you'd like to share?

[Tim Miller]

Cam likes his scrambled eggs overcooked to a degree that I find disturbing. Like, he likes them. And I'm gonna say that he actually said this. He likes them crunchy.

[Cameron Caskey]

Oh, I'm still hungover for Mardi Gras.

[Tim Miller]

Sorry.

[Cameron Caskey]

That is fucking sick.

[Tim Miller]

But yeah, that was. That was really rough. That was hard.

[Cameron Caskey]

That was really rough. So he'd, like, wake up in the morning and go make crunchy eggs.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, And I politely ate them.

[Ellie Schnit]

I think the important part. I think the important thing to note about that is not just the crunchy eggs. It was the pride with which I touted them to Ellie. It wasn't like I presented these eggs to Ellie and she was like, these are kind of gross. It was like I said, ellie, by the way, I'm really good at making eggs. But I thought you were gonna say. I thought you were gonna call. Upon the time that we were together watching the Princess Diaries and I was on my laptop.

[Tim Miller]

It was The Princess Diaries 2. Not that you remember.

[Ellie Schnit]

No, no, no, no. I'm not talking about Princess Diaries 2. That was a fight. I'm talking about Princess Iris 1 when I was on my laptop. Refreshing. Dogecoin.

[Tim Miller]

Oh, that was rough. Yeah, that was rough.

[Ellie Schnit]

I just. I had never been sort of a Wall street guy before, and then this dogecoin thing happens. I learned I'm making a little bit of money. You know, Anne Hathaway is going through this coming of age story.

[Tim Miller]

That's a beautiful. Never seen it.

[Cameron Caskey]

You had multiple Princess Diaries related arguments that shows that the relationship was not to.

[Ellie Schnit]

Princess Diaries 2 was the argument. Princess Diaries 1 was Dogecoin.

[Tim Miller]

Dogecoin.

[Cameron Caskey]

Yeah. Okay. What was the. I guess I have to ask what the argument was over Princess Diaries 2. I don't feel like we can just get away from that without discussing it.

[Tim Miller]

We were gonna watch Princess Diaries 2, which is an important movie in my life because it's a great movie. And Cam just didn't watch it. He stood over in the kitchen the entire time, not paying attention.

[Ellie Schnit]

I was doing the dishes. I was being a trad wife.

[Tim Miller]

You were on your phone the whole time. And I was so like. I was like, wow, you do not care about my interests.

[Cameron Caskey]

So that was a no camera. I did not know you were a dogecoin holder. We're gonna have to talk about that.

[Ellie Schnit]

I was a dogecoin holder for one day. I was curious. I was dogecoin curious. I didn't know what was going on.

[Cameron Caskey]

How much money you would have made. You wouldn't be doing this podcast with me if you would've just helped. Okay, that was wonderful. That was better than I expected actually. Now it's, now it's time for Boomer mailbag. Go to [e-mail] you want to email a mailbag question if you are a Boomer. And the favorite one that we've received so far came in from Susan and I want to bring it to both of you. Susan's a 60 year old white female city dwelling public servant that was self identified. She scored tickets to see Kendrick and SZA in May and her question is how enthusiastically she should dance. My Gen Z kids strongly advise against using my arms or legs, suggesting that any noticeable movement could be inappropriate. I have some thoughts for Susan, but I think she's looking for your guys.

[Tim Miller]

Take my thought, Susan, is your kids are being haters and you should be able to dance however you want. You're going to a great concert. Everyone else is going to be dancing. What, you're going to stand there like this? Boring. Don't do that. Have fun.

[Ellie Schnit]

Susan, I want you to look up what this means, but all I'm going to say is throw ass. I want to see you get down, Susan. And I want you to write back to the bulwark telling us exactly how it went because I want you to go, fucking ham.

[Cameron Caskey]

Throw ass, Susan. All right, Laura, a boomer. One more question here. Laura's concerned that all the young men she knows are incessant gamers. And is there any advice you might give to those of us who interact with these young people to help them get into a real life?

[Tim Miller]

Hey, I'm a gamer.

[Cameron Caskey]

Are you?

[Tim Miller]

Great. They're fun, they can build community. I don't think there's anything wrong with. I mean, I think if you're spending all your time and money doing it, perhaps there's a bit of a problem. But I think it's a hobby. It's no worse than any other hobby.

[Cameron Caskey]

Have you ever dated a gamer?

[Tim Miller]

You know, No, I haven't dated a gamer.

[Cameron Caskey]

Okay.

[Ellie Schnit]

I think you were, you were the bigger gamer of the two of us, right?

[Tim Miller]

Yeah.

[Cameron Caskey]

I think that Ellie's actions betray more of a truth than her words in this case. And so I do think that if you are a gamer, that is gaming at a very severe level and it's going to limit your ability to have children. And I think that you should tell the young guy in your life that just like gaming in moderation could help them potentially appeal somebody like Ellie.

[Ellie Schnit]

That's why I don't play video games. I have a really hard time playing with moderation. So, you know, I don't drink alcohol or do drugs or smoke cigarettes, not because I don't think those things are all awesome, but because I can't just do a little bit of things. I can either do a lot or nothing. So I kind of wish I could play video games because I think a lot of video games are really cool and I would have a lot of fun. But every time I try to just play video games for a half hour, an hour a day, I don't have that control over myself and I end up just chewing up so much time doing it because certain games like Fortnite and Minecraft and stuff like that, they're all so fun that I just get sucked into them. So I've had to, you know, develop this situation where I just don't touch them at all. And therefore I have no choice but to not play.

[Cameron Caskey]

So therefore you're not insolibant, you know, and you're not an involuntary. You're not an involuntary celibate. I do know that for sure. I'm not. We're not. We won't ask anybody else on the podcast to confirm. All right, there's it. We're up next. Finally, Gen Z News.

[Ryan]

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[Cameron Caskey]

Actually a lot.

[Ryan]

So sign up [e-mail]. that's chumbacasino.com.

[Ellie Schnit]

No purchase necessary. BTW.

[Georgia]

Hi, Georgia.

[David]

Hi, David. What do you think the world needs more of?

[Georgia]

Well, the world always needs more podcasts.

[David]

Didn't you used to have a podcast?

[Georgia]

Not only did I used to have a podcast, Georgia, it's coming back. David Tennant does a podcast with season three. It's coming at you.

[David]

Okay, and who are your guests?

[Georgia]

Who are my guests? What about Russell T. Davis? What about Jamila Jamil? What about Stanley the Tooch Tucci?

[David]

So it's really just you hanging out with your mates then?

[Cameron Caskey]

Yeah.

[Georgia]

Come join me. David Tennant does a podcast with. Bye.

[Cameron Caskey]

We're back. It's producer Sebastian from Fortune Poshmark CEO.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Which is a social commerce marketplace. Manish Chandra is relying on Gen Z Workers for fashion inspiration. From picking out his outfits to deciding what brands the site should feature. He credited them for keeping him current with trends and bringing unique perspectives. And other employers are waking up to Gen Z's value.

[Georgia]

Should.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Should Gen Z dress their older bosses? Should. Should Tim take Cam's advice on fashion? Ellie?

[Tim Miller]

No, but not because he's Gen Z. I don't. I guess. I don't know. Like, I'm not. I don't really necessarily think of myself as, like, super Gen Z, so I don't know if I can answer that question.

[Cameron Caskey]

I guess fashion wise, you're not super Gen Z. I'm also just like, I.

[Tim Miller]

Was born in 1996, so I'm like, not really Gen Z, but it counts.

[Cameron Caskey]

You're border. You're a tweener.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, Jasper, but so then maybe we.

[Cameron Caskey]

Can make fun of the Gen Z fashion together because they look like shit. I'm sorry. No, people should not listen to this. I went to a the Dare concert where, like, the median age was like 23 and a half. And, like, everyone looked fucking awful. They're in, like, these massive pants. They look like they're wearing costumes. They're all wearing the same sunglasses inside. Like, they all have mustaches even though they can't grow mustaches. You do? Yeah, I think they look ridiculous and awful. So my answer is no. But I don't know. May. Ellie, do you not.

[Tim Miller]

How are you dressing? Like, Are you. Are you telling your boss to do, like, Y2K sleeves? Because, no, your boss should not be dressing like that. But if you're telling your boss, stop wearing skinny jeans, sure, I mean, you know, that's fine.

[Cameron Caskey]

Wrong. Disagree. Next. Next. Next news item.

[Ryan Seacrest]

All right, so this is more political slash just Democrats attempting to be digital. So you all might have seen this, but after Elon Musk emailed to federal employees to send him five things they did this week, the DNC released a widely mocked 32 point small print document detailing what they did. And if you haven't seen it, I'll just put it in the chat. But I mean, hey, aren't the Democrats doing a great job trying to be digital and win the Internet war?

[Tim Miller]

I think whoever came up with that idea should not only be fired, but should be taken out back of Mice and Men style. I do not understand.

[Cameron Caskey]

She's a reader.

[Tim Miller]

The Democrat. Yes, I read a book we all read in seventh grade. Amazing. No, I do not understand.

[Cameron Caskey]

It wasn't a Harry Potter reference, so you get A plus.

[Tim Miller]

Well, I'm not that much of a millennial no, I do not understand.

[Ellie Schnit]

That's the thing about Democratic leadership is you always think, gee, when you have enough power and money, someone somewhere will, will be there to say, hey, that's not a good idea. And then you learn, no, no, it's actually the people with the most power and money who have, apparently the fewest people consulting them on that type of thing.

[Cameron Caskey]

Have you seen these fucking things that they're doing? Like, people been posting them in our Reddit and in my comments, being like, you're not giving the Democrats enough credit. And it's like, it's a link to like a graphic. And it's like what the Democrats did today. Oh, my God, that's like five bullets.

[Ellie Schnit]

In today's news, Donald Trump has effectively made every single member of the Board of Education leave their families and move to a camp. Today the Democrats passed a new bill protecting pencils and, and codifying. Codifying an act from, you know, the late 1980s about sidewalk policy. It's like the. What we did today graphics that the Democrats are doing are just highlighting how much the Democrats are not doing today.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. And it just belies a greater problem with the way that the party is being run. And if they want someone smarter and better, they should just hire me and fire everybody else.

[Cameron Caskey]

Are you available, Ellie?

[Tim Miller]

I'm available.

[Cameron Caskey]

Are you on the market?

[Tim Miller]

Yeah.

[Cameron Caskey]

Okay, I'm have to start looking at some of your Instagrams, making sure they're not cringe. Here is one. What the Democrats did today. More than 100 House Democrats joined together demanding answers on the Energy Department firing. Well, hot damn, great work. And just look at these graphics for YouTube people. Sebastian, put it on screen. Look at this graphic. It literally is like. It's like the suck up kid in the front of class that like, writes to the teacher on Friday and is like, here's what I did. Teacher raising their hand, even his homework. It is so try hard.

[Ellie Schnit]

45 House Democrats have come together to stand outside of the White House with a boombox, like, at the end of say Anything, playing the song, we're not gonna take it.

[Cameron Caskey]

Oh, boy. Ali. Well, I guess. Do you have any hot takes? Or do you have any, like. I know you don't want to give away your advice for free. Before we lose you. Do you have any other useful advice to the Democrats from somebody that you know is not completely cringe?

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, stop sucking. Just be normal. The best advice that anyone could ever give is just be normal. That's it. Stop being.

[Cameron Caskey]

Speak normally.

[Tim Miller]

I don't know, like normalcy is important in a way. And you need to be like. You need to be normal. So you can point out how not normal everybody else is being.

[Cameron Caskey]

Well, I'm on your Instagram right now judging it, and I do see that 28 weeks ago, you posed for a photo with a cigarette that looks unlit.

[Tim Miller]

It was so I don't know if.

[Cameron Caskey]

That'S normal or not.

[Ellie Schnit]

Well, you found that on the ground.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, I didn't put it in my mouth. I just, you know, I think cigarettes make people look hot. And I think you will agree, looking at that photo, that I'm correct.

[Cameron Caskey]

You look great. And maybe this is it. Maybe Chris Murphy should start holding photos of unlit cigarettes shitting on Donald Trump to look cooler.

[Ellie Schnit]

Wait, I'm sorry. Before we go, can I ask one more interview question that I didn't get a chance? So, Ellie Schnitz, you know, you have had so many things to say about so many different issues. What did your dad think of me? Because for context, Ellie and I dated for a while, and then years later, I went to go visit her in the hospital while she was recovering from the kidney transplant. And that was the first time I ever met her father. And he seemed like a lovely man. But I was just wondering, like, what did he say when I left?

[Tim Miller]

I don't think he knew who you were.

[Cameron Caskey]

Right.

[Tim Miller]

Sorry.

[Cameron Caskey]

Great. No, perfect.

[Ellie Schnit]

All in all.

[Cameron Caskey]

And that's the FYPOD for this week. We'll see you all next week. Thank you. Ellie Schmidt.

[Ryan]

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[Cameron Caskey]

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[Tim Miller]

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[Georgia]

Hi, Georgia.

[David]

Hi, David. What do you think the world needs more of?

[Georgia]

Well, the world always needs more podcasts.

[David]

Didn't you used to have a podcast?

[Georgia]

Not only did I used to have a podcast, Georgia, it's coming back. David Tennant does a podcast with Season three is coming at ya.

[David]

Okay, and who are you? Guest.

[Georgia]

Who are my guests? What about Russell T. Davis? What about Jamila Jamil? What about Stanley the Tooch Tucci?

[David]

So it's really just you hanging out with your mates?

[Georgia]

Yeah, come join me. David Tennant does a podcast with Bye.