37: Millennial Socialist Mayor? The Former Rapper Gaining Momentum in NYC (w/ Zohran Mamdani)

Summary

Episode 37: Millennial Socialist Mayor? The Former Rapper Gaining Momentum in NYC (w/ Zohran Mamdani)
Released on June 17, 2025, by FYPod hosted by The Bulwark

---

Introduction

In Episode 37 of FYPod, hosts Tim Miller and Cameron Caskey delve into the burgeoning political landscape of New York City by spotlighting Zohran Mamdani, a state assembly member with socialist leanings and a past as a rapper. As NYC gears up for its mayoral race, Mamdani emerges as a compelling candidate challenging the status quo. This episode dissects his campaign strategies, policy proposals, and the broader implications for America's youngest voters, particularly Gen Z.

---

Introducing Zohran Mamdani

Tim Miller initiates the conversation by acknowledging that Mamdani might be a new face for many listeners. Zohran Mamdani provides a comprehensive background:

• Early Life and Career: Born in Kampala, Uganda, Mamdani moved to NYC at age 7, growing up in Morningside Heights. He currently serves as a state assembly member representing parts of Western Queens, Astoria, and Long Island City.

• Political Focus: Mamdani is in his third term, concentrating on making NYC more affordable. His early efforts targeted the crisis faced by taxi drivers trapped in medallion debt, securing approximately $450 million in debt relief in collaboration with Senator Schumer.

Zohran Mamdani [02:22]: "If you care deeply about public goods and public services, you have to also care about public excellence and increasing subway frequency, increasing the reliability of our buses, also making them more affordable."

---

Public Transit and Safety

A significant portion of the discussion centers on NYC's public transportation system and public safety:

• Challenges in Public Transit: Despite being one of the world's largest transit systems, NYC's public transportation faces inefficiency and safety concerns. Mamdani highlights the correlation between transit inefficiency and rising crime rates.

• Mental Health Initiatives: Mamdani advocates for dedicated mental health outreach workers stationed at high-crisis transit locations to mitigate the overburdening of the NYPD with non-criminal incidents.

Zohran Mamdani [04:37]: "We have to create teams of dedicated mental health outreach workers that would be placed in the top 100 stations of levels of mental health crises or homelessness to actually both provide those services and move people out of the system."

• Police Department Strain: With the NYPD handling over 200,000 mental health calls annually, Mamdani points out that this overload hampers their ability to address serious crimes effectively.

Zohran Mamdani [05:50]: "Only 35% of crimes from the first quarter of this year have actually been solved... 200 officers are leaving the department every month."

---

Campaign Strategies and Political Norms

The episode delves into Mamdani's approach to reshaping NYC's political landscape:

• Breaking Political Norms: Mamdani criticizes the piecemeal approach to land use and zoning, advocating for a citywide comprehensive strategy to expedite housing projects.

• Public Excellence: Emphasizing the need for excellence in public service, Mamdani argues that inefficiency in public sectors like the MTA undermines trust in local government.

Zohran Mamdani [23:14]: "We have to return back to that ambition that you were talking about from the early 1900s and a sense of humility that if someone else has gotten it right, we should learn from."

---

Affordable Housing

Affordable housing remains a cornerstone of Mamdani's platform:

• Supply vs. Demand: Addressing the paradox of declining Manhattan population compared to the early 20th century, Mamdani attributes it to restrictive zoning laws and prolonged approval processes.

• Proposed Solutions: He advocates for expedited approval processes and upzoning, especially around mass transit hubs, to increase housing supply without sacrificing affordability.

Zohran Mamdani [20:18]: "We have to increase supply... expediting the processes by which supply can get approved for production."

• Municipal-Owned Grocery Stores: As part of his affordability initiatives, Mamdani proposes pilot programs for municipal-owned grocery stores to combat food deserts and reduce living costs.

Zohran Mamdani [37:42]: "Our proposal to create a pilot program for a network of municipal-owned grocery stores... it can actually be implemented."

---

Addressing Islamophobia and Anti-Semitism

Mamdani openly discusses the rise of hate crimes and discriminatory rhetoric:

• Personal Experiences: Mamdani shares harrowing experiences of receiving threats and facing Islamophobic hate, underscoring the urgency of addressing hate crimes in NYC.

Zohran Mamdani [27:17]: "I have DMs, to the extent that I have to have security because we had a press conference where a MAGA supporter was yelling... 'I should be ashamed of being a brown Muslim.'"

• Community Safety: His campaign includes a significant increase in funding for anti-hate crime programs and a commitment to protect Jewish and Muslim communities alike.

Zohran Mamdani [48:26]: "We have to focus on keeping Jewish New Yorkers safe... these are the legal mechanisms by which we can actually deliver that."

---

Critique of Progressive Mayors

Addressing concerns about progressive leadership:

• Comparison with Brandon Johnson: Mamdani critiques mayors like Brandon Johnson in Chicago, highlighting low approval ratings and inefficiencies in projects like affordable housing.

Zohran Mamdani [43:21]: "The intent is to build as much affordable housing, and if that is the amount of money it costs to build, then you will simply not be able to build to the extent that's required."

• Commendation of Effective Leadership: He praises Boston's Mayor Wu for successful initiatives like fare-free buses, which reduced dwell time and improved transit efficiency.

Zohran Mamdani [41:06]: "Mayor Wu has been doing a very good job in Boston... by making it free, they decreased the dwell time at each bus stop by 23%."

---

Views on Capitalism and Public Services

Mamdani articulates his stance on capitalism and the necessity of public excellence:

• Critique of Inequality: He argues that inherent inequalities within capitalism necessitate robust public services to ensure dignity and affordability for all New Yorkers.

Zohran Mamdani [36:48]: "My critiques of capitalism have been that this inequality is a feature of it... make it a reality."

• Public vs. Private Solutions: Emphasizing public-owned initiatives, Mamdani contrasts them with subsidizing corporate entities, advocating for more community-centric approaches.

---

Combatting Authoritarianism and Trump’s Policies

The conversation shifts to national issues impacting NYC:

• Authoritarian Threats: Mamdani labels Donald Trump's efforts to militarize cities as authoritarian and stresses the importance of upholding constitutional laws.

Zohran Mamdani [52:07]: "We have to be able to call it what it is, which is authoritarianism... understanding the law as something that has to be followed."

• Sanctuary Policies: He defends NYC's sanctuary policies as essential measures to protect immigrant communities against overreach by federal authorities.

Zohran Mamdani [54:09]: "Sanctuary city policies... are providing legal representation to immigrant New Yorkers in detention proceedings."

---

Conclusion

Episode 37 of FYPod offers an in-depth exploration of Zohran Mamdani's candidacy for NYC Mayor, highlighting his progressive yet pragmatic approach to tackling the city's most pressing issues. From enhancing public transit and safety to combating systemic inequalities and hate crimes, Mamdani presents a vision of an inclusive, efficient, and affordable New York City. His discussions not only shed light on effective urban governance but also resonate with the shifting political inclinations of Gen Z voters, making this episode a crucial listen for those interested in the future of urban politics.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Zohran Mamdani [04:37]: "We have to create teams of dedicated mental health outreach workers..."
• Zohran Mamdani [23:14]: "We have to return back to that ambition..."
• Zohran Mamdani [36:48]: "My critiques of capitalism have been that this inequality is a feature of it..."
• Zohran Mamdani [52:07]: "We have to be able to call it what it is, which is authoritarianism..."

---

Note: Timestamps correspond to the podcast transcript for reference.

Transcript

[Tim Miller]

Packages by Expedia. You were made to be rechargeable. We were made to package flights, hotels and hammocks for less. Expedia Made to travel.

[Richard Karn]

Hi, I'm Richard Karn and you may have seen me on TV talking about the world's number one expandable garden hose. Well, the brand new pocket hose Copperhead with pocket Pivot is here and it's a total game changer. Old fashioned hoses get kinks and creases at the spigot, but the Copperhead's pocket pivot swivels 360 degrees for full water flow and freedom to water with ease all around your home. When you're all done, this rust proof anti burst hose shrinks back down to pocket size for effortless handling and tidy storage. Plus your super light and ultra durable pocket hose Copperhead is backed with a 10 year warranty. What could be better than that? I'll tell you what an exciting exclusive offer just for you. For a limited time, you can get a free Pocket Pivot and their 10 pattern sprayer with the purchase of any size Copperhead hose. Just text water to 64,000. That's water to 64,000. For your two free gifts with purchase W A T E R to 64,000.

[Cameron]

By texting 64,000. You agree to receive recurring automated marketing messages from Pocket host. Message and data rates may apply. No purchase required. Terms apply. Available at pockethose.com terms maybe Cameron should be mayor.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Yeah, Honestly, I'm just glad that Cameron. It's too late.

[Tim Miller]

Why not go down to the Zoomers? Okay. If we're going to do a young millennial, why not a zoomer mayor? Hey everybody, I'm Tim Miller.

[Richard Karn]

Camera.

[Cameron Caskey]

I'm Cameron Caskey and this is FYpod. Today is our most exciting episode yet. He is a socialist. He was a rapper. As of recently, he is married. Which, you know, I'm glad you two fucking millennials can be happy. I am so honored to have the future mayor of New York City. The Athens of America, The Lima of America. The istanbul of America. Mr. Zoran Mamdani. How you doing man?

[Zoran Mamdani]

How's it going? How's it going? Thank you so much for having me.

[Tim Miller]

He was prepping that intro all night. Zoran, for people who, unlike Cameron, who seems very familiar with your bio, I think probably some of our listeners went from like knowing literally nothing about you to seeing their most lefty friend start posting about you on Instagram constantly in like the past two weeks. And so for like that person for whom you've Just like appeared out of the ether, maybe like tell us a little bit about you.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Absolutely. Well, first of all, thank you to that lefty friend for posting. I'm usually, I'm usually, I usually tell people to get off the Internet, but it's been helpful.

[Tim Miller]

So.

[Zoran Mamdani]

My name is Zoram Ondani. I was born in Kampala, Uganda in East Africa. Came to New York City when I was 7 years old, grew up in Morningside Heights and am a State assembly member. I represent parts of Western Queens, Astoria and Long Island City. I'm in my third term and my focus while I've been in the assembly has been on the fact that we are living in the most expensive city in the United States. How do we actually make it affordable for the working and middle class New Yorkers who built it? And initially that meant a real focus around the betrayal that this city did to working class taxi drivers who were trapped in hundreds of thousands of dollars in medallion debt. And that was really the focus of my first year where I worked with the New York Taxi Workers alliance, thousands of working class drivers to secure about $450 million in debt relief after partnering with Senator Schumer on that. And then next focus has also been about public transit and the fact that it's one of the most beautiful things about our city. And also it is one of the most glaring examples of public inefficiency that we have here. And if you care deeply about public goods and public services. I do. Then you have to also care about public excellence and increasing subway frequency, increasing the reliability of our buses, also making them more affordable. That's really been so much of how I've approached the work in state government safer.

[Tim Miller]

I mean, I love being on the subway, but you know, it's one, you know, it's cool, right? You see people like singing. That's, that's fun. You get to see people of all walks of life. Then you get to see naked people. Right. Then you get to see people that look a little scary.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Yeah. And I think when you ask, when you ask New Yorkers where they feel least safe, you will often hear the subway system. And a big part of our campaign's proposal around public safety is to create a teams of dedicated mental health outreach workers that would be placed in the top 100 stations of levels of mental health crises or homelessness to actually both provide those services and move people out of the system. System. And I think that's critically important because right now we kind of treat a lot of these aspects of New York City life. As if they're innate, they're natural, as opposed to the fact that they're political choices and we can make different choices and have different results.

[Cameron Caskey]

That's because one of the things you said in one of the debates was like the NYPD is getting called to do stuff that they're not trained to do. They're getting called to be social workers for different things. So we need experts who actually know how to handle these situations without escalating or potentially turning them dangerous going in and managing that. And what does that look like? What does the assembly of that task force require?

[Zoran Mamdani]

I think there's a few things. One thing is you scale up what has been, you know, what could have been successful in our city. Was it actually being pursued in a sincere manner. And what I mean by that is there's a program called Be Heard in New York City that would redirect 911 calls that were regarding mental health crises to ensure that you actually had specialists who were trained for that to respond to that. But Eric Adams mayorality was just fundamentally uninterested in actually making this workable. And the reason that I believe it is workable is you can see examples elsewhere in the country. Examples like in Oregon where they took mental health calls out of the police department. Gave them to a different vibe's a.

[Tim Miller]

Little different in Oregon. You know, people are like doing weed gummies kind of hanging out, chilling. Like it's maybe a little bit of an easier challenge for the Salem. I don't say I'm a mental health force.

[Zoran Mamdani]

I think, I think the, the larger point though is that right now the NYPD is answering 200,000 mental health calls a year. And you can't separate that from the fact that only 35% of crimes from the first quarter of this year have actually been solved. Because if you're asking those same police officers to both pick up that call, go on that trip and respond to that shooting, there is just one of those things that is not going to be able to be done. And it's interesting that a lot of times when you talk about a vision for public safety and you talk about allowing police to do their jobs, it's framed sometimes as if you are, you know, you are anti police. And yet if you listen to police officers themselves, you'll see 200 officers are leaving the department every month. A leading cause of that departure. And the fact that nearly a quarter are considering it is forced overtime. And a lot of that forced overtime comes from officers working doubles and triples and being placed in the subway station being placed, doing this response to nearly every failure of the social safety net and the way that you can make that life a little bit more standard and have a little bit more quality in when they know they can actually go home is by ensuring they can focus on the seven major categories of crime and not by saying, you pick up the phone anytime anyone calls.

[Cameron Caskey]

Well, when I look back at 2021, and in my kind of reductive take, I'm like, okay, Eric Adams won because he ran on being a cop. And people were so hype about the cops. And that's how Eric Adams became the mayor of the Islamabad of America.

[Zoran Mamdani]

How many more cities you got? I love it.

[Cameron Caskey]

I try to remember as many as possible. I watched several compilations of him doing it. It's really entertaining. Adams has a lot in common with Trump, and it being kind of crazy to watch is certainly one of them. But, you know, when you look back at that and everybody in New York City's response to defund the police style messaging and just how different progressive candidates were putting together messaging about, you know, there being a difference between defunding the police and not giving them unlimited budgets to make subway robots, I feel like it's sort of been hard to get the messaging straight there. So I guess while you're talking to the bulwark audience of the moderate lib types that normally don't like me in the comments, what is your message in terms of, hey, I'm not here to defund the police. We're just working to make the city safer and innovate?

[Zoran Mamdani]

I think you've said it pretty clearly, right? This is. This is. This campaign is.

[Tim Miller]

Maybe Cameron should be mayor.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Yeah. Honestly, I'm just glad that. I mean, it's too late.

[Tim Miller]

Why not go down to the Zoomers? Okay. If we're going to do a young millennial, why not a Zoomer Mayor zora.

[Cameron Caskey]

Zora is 33. And I'm. I'm like one step removed from being a fucking child. And I saw your age and I was like, wow, I have hope for this next generation.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. Yes.

[Cameron Caskey]

And you're married. I'm not going to be married at fucking 33.

[Tim Miller]

You might be. There's hope. Might be in a polycule.

[Zoran Mamdani]

We just got to.

[Tim Miller]

We just got to get. Define the police. I think he was asking you about.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Yes, yes. Somehow. Somehow we got to polycules with. You know, I think what I've been very clear with New Yorkers about is that in fact, when Eric Adams was running in 2021, of all people, he said New Yorkers need not choose between safety and justice. And he's shown himself unable to deliver on the former, uninterested in delivering on the latter. And what our campaign is focused on is actually that public safety. And that means not defunding the police. That means sustaining the headcount of the police department, and also means having the police be able to actually respond to those major categories of crime. Whether we're talking about shootings or murders or grand larceny, when we're seeing CompStat lay those out, we also have to ask ourselves, how do we ensure that we're solving more of those crimes? Because part of the diminishing faith in local government is not just whether or not crime goes up, it's whether or not the actual closing of those cases is also going up. And I think that it's interesting in that when you speak to New Yorkers, you will hear there is an understanding that so much of what we're asking police officers to do is something that goes against actually wanting to deliver public safety. And if we were to hire those who are actually trained to do the work that we're asking them to do, that allows everyone to do their jobs, and that actually creates a safer city, especially in the place where, when we're talking, you know, about the subway system, it's not always categorized in statistics. It's also in feeling and the experience of going through that system and the real sense of vacancy that's permeating that system, whether it's the 75% of commercial units that are vacant in the subway system, or it's the fact that oftentimes you feel that you are alone on that subway platform waiting for that train. That's taking too long. Just having a more visible presence of the city looking out for you can make all the difference in how you actually go through that.

[Tim Miller]

What about James Murphy's plan to make the sounds better on the turnstiles? Did you ever hear about that one?

[Zoran Mamdani]

I gotta be honest.

[Tim Miller]

We're not vibe here. Sounds okay. Just something to think about.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Can you give me some more?

[Tim Miller]

You know, James Murphy, you're a young millennial. You know, James Murphy, the LCD sound system. That ring a bell? Okay, okay.

[Zoran Mamdani]

LCD sound system does ring a bell.

[Tim Miller]

Yes. Yeah. All right. Well, he's a New Yorker, and he had, like. He had proposed that, you know, that you bring a little bit better aesthetic to the subway. So, like, when you're going through the turnstiles, like, it'd have a vibey sound that was the proposal. I'm not going to pin you down on that right now. Something to think about.

[Zoran Mamdani]

I appreciate that.

[Tim Miller]

Something to think about. If you get in there, you might have got a sense for the vibe at this point already Cam is, Cam is standing you and is, you know, on the imaginary ranked choice ballot. He's putting you number one. I'm. I'm skeptical. As you know, a former Republican, neolib, moderate chill. So we've got like this little kind of good twink, bad twink routine going.

[Cameron Caskey]

And so I want and the full Abrahamic coalition right now. We're really firing on all.

[Tim Miller]

Come on. So here's what I want to here's what I want to give you the chance to do before I hi, I'm.

[Richard Karn]

Richard Karn and you may have seen me on TV talking about the world's number one expandable garden hose. Well, the brand new pocket hose Copperhead with pocket pivot is here and it's a total game changer. Old fashioned hoses get kinks and creases at the spigot, but the Copperhead's pocket pivot swivels 360 degrees for full water flow and freedom to water with ease all around your home. When you're all done, this rust proof anti burst hose shrinks back down to pocket size for effortless handling and tidy storage. Plus your super light and ultra durable pocket hose Copperhead is backed with a 10 year warranty. What could be better than that? I'll tell you what an exciting exclusive offer just for you. For a limited time. You can get a free pocket Pivot and their 10 pattern sprayer with the purchase of any size Copperhead hose. Just text water to 64,000. That's water to 64,000 for your two free gifts with purchase W A T E R to 64,000.

[Cameron]

By texting 64,000, you agree to receive recurring automated marketing messages from Pocket Hose. Message and data rates may apply. No purchase required. Term supply [e-mail] Terms hi, I'm Richard.

[Richard Karn]

Karn and you may have seen me on TV talking about the world's number one expandable garden hose. Well, the brand new pocket hose Copperhead with pocket pivot is here and it's a total game changer. Old fashioned hoses get kinks and creases at the spigot, but the Copperhead's pocket pivot swivels 360 degrees for full water flow and freedom to water with ease all around your home. When you're all done, this rust proof anti burst hose shrinks Back down to pocket size for effortless handling and tidy storage. Plus your super light and ultra durable Pocket Hose Copperhead is backed with a 10 year warranty. What could be better than that? I'll tell you what an exciting exclusive offer just for you for a limited time. You can get a free Pocket Pivot and their 10 pattern sprayer with the purchase of any size Copperhead hose. Just text water to 64,000. That's water to 64,000 for your two free gifts with purchase W A T E R to 64,000.

[Cameron]

By texting 64,000 you agree to receive recurring automated marketing messages from Pocket Hose. Message and data rates may apply. No purchase required. Terms apply. Available@pocket hose.com terms before I give you.

[Tim Miller]

A little shout right now I live in New Orleans, so this isn't a real vote, but I've got a top four on my imaginary ballot. You and creepy Andrew are not on it. Okay? But you have a chance to get fifth. You have a chance to get fifth, which could be pretty important in a ranked choice voting system. So I want you to make the case to capitalist moderate Neo Libs to rank you fifth.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Well, I appreciate the opportunity. What I would say is that one thing that many of us have in common is that we care deeply about this city. And I think it serves no one, that it is the most expensive city in the United States of America. It doesn't serve a business owner, it doesn't serve a worker. It doesn't serve someone who's just passionate about the future of this place. And we've seen that while income inequality has gone down across the country, it's actually increased in New York City. And the campaign's focus on affordability, it's a focus that is also about ensuring that this city continues to grow. Because what we've seen is while we're at eight and a half million people and we're seeing a slight uptick in our population, we have lost hundreds of thousands of people just over the Mayor Adams mayorality. And we've lost them to neighboring states, some of which would also be considered high tax states like New Jersey. We've lost them to Connecticut, we lost them to Pennsylvania. And that's also a loss for our tax base. It's also on a national level, a loss in the ability for us to continue to have the congressional representation we should have. And ultimately what this campaign is about delivering is a city that working and middle class people can afford. And in making it so, it's also a place where businesses and even the wealthy can have a better life. Because so often the question of whether or not wealthy New Yorkers stay in this city is framed as if it's entirely contingent upon tax policy. But if you look at studies by the Fiscal Policy Institute, you find that the top 1% of New Yorkers leave at one fourth the rate of other income categories due to that tax policy. Ultimately, what it is is quality of life. And I think too often we've allowed words like quality of life, like efficiency, fraud, waste, to almost become coded as if they are right wing concerns, when in fact, they should be left wing concerns. Because if you care about public service, if you care about public goods, you have to have public excellence. Because any example of public inefficiency is then used as justification to not have the public sector at all. That's why I started with the MTA in the State assembly, because that's the most frequent example for New Yorkers of how government is not delivering on what was promised. And what I would.

[Cameron Caskey]

You said. Sorry, you said in the debate, and I didn't know about this, that Cuomo had stolen, like, hundreds of millions of dollars from the mta. What went down with that?

[Zoran Mamdani]

You know, this is. This is a former governor who spent many years pretending that the MTA wasn't even a state authority and. And just completely absolving himself of any responsibility. And the cuts that he made to the MTA were cuts both in regular funding, but also there was a moment where a number of upstate ski resorts had a bad winter. He took money from the MTA to subsidize those ski resorts. That's the extent to which this man defunded mass transit in New York City. And my point that I would make is that, you know, one of the first times I worked with the partnership of the City of New York, which was. Which is the organization that represents businesses across New York City, was when we both came together to fight for better subway service. And I think that's the point I would make to you and, and to, as you described it, a capitalist audience, is that so many of the things that I'm fighting for, they are things that actually benefit everyone. I mean, if you're a business and you're thinking about the loss of productivity because of the amount of time spent in traffic or spent in delays or spent just waiting, that's time that can be returned back to you if someone is able to actually get to work quicker. And I think this is also a place where I really find a lot of the conversation around abundance to be quite compelling. Is that there are a lot of regulations and rules and even fees and fines that we do not have a justification for any longer. And if there is no justification, then it should not exist. If there is a justification, then we should continue with it. And I think I look at an example of barbershops in New York City. You have to fill out 23 forms, go to seven different agencies and attend 12 activities in order to be able to become a barber. To have your own.

[Tim Miller]

Can we just start at zero? Can you just get rid of all of them?

[Zoran Mamdani]

But, and I think, I think, I think going to zero, you might need one piece of certification. But I, I would.

[Tim Miller]

Why? I was cutting hair. How many New Yorkers are just cutting hair? Yeah, let me tell you. Hair are just cutting hair in each other's homes. Like, you know, your mom's cutting your hair. Does she need a certificate? This is crazy.

[Cameron Caskey]

I'm.

[Tim Miller]

What are they going to do? They're going to accidentally nick you like, what's the word?

[Zoran Mamdani]

Let me tell you, there's a lot of New Yorkers who worry about having a bad haircut and they need to make sure that they have a license.

[Tim Miller]

Platform, is what you're saying.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Down from my point is that you look at Pennsylvania, they took an eight week process of permitting and made it into two or three days. That to me is also the example of what I would deliver as the mayor of the city is one that's actually efficient. And I find it very ironic because as you said, you know, Andrew Cuomo is not on your ballot either. For many New Yorkers for whom he is on their ballot, a lot of it is about the sense of competency of managerial experience. We're talking about a guy who's so bad at management that he chased out the most celebrated head of the New York City Transit Authority, Andy Byford, who would now rather work for Donald Trump than work for Andrew Cuomo. That's what we're also looking at. Someone who spent the most money in the history of the world on a single mile of subway. That's also the part of politics we have to turn so around.

[Tim Miller]

Getting Josh Shapiro pilled there on the cutting regulations. I think that's something to note. I want just mentioned something at the beginning of that answer, which I just want to drill down on a little bit, which is like people just the income inequality and people leaving, people being able to afford living in New York. I saw a fun fact that kind of blew my mind the other day, you know, that there are fewer people living in Manhattan now than there were in 1910-1950. The idea that it's overcrowded or whatever, it's crazy, right? Like, there were more people living in Manhattan in 1910 than there are today. And so, like, how do you do that, though? Like, how do you. How do you, you know, break through the. Whatever, the red tape or whatever it is, you tell me what it is that is preventing, you know, more housing from going in and the areas of the city that should be more dense.

[Zoran Mamdani]

I think part of it is that you are willing to have these political fights. You know, it is. It is not going to be easy to change the political norms of this city. Right. We have a norm right now in New York City where the approach we have to land use is one that is piecemeal. Each city council member has something called member deference, where they decide whether or not a land use project moves forward. That's the kind of system that does not allow for a citywide approach to increasing housing production. And I think that one of the key things I've said is that we have to increase supply. And part of how we do so is by expediting the processes by which supply can get approved for. For production. And part of that is citywide comprehensive approach. And another part of it is a commitment that if you align with the administration's goals, whether it be affordability goals or labor goals, then you are fast tracked. Because what we're seeing right now is you have many projects that general consensus would say this should move forward. This is housing for low income seniors. And even that project is waiting for seven, eight, nine years. And as we know, time is money. And it's not just the money that you spend on constructing, it's the money you spend on waiting and going through that process. I think the other thing I would say is, you know, one of the more significant zoning changes that has happened in New York City is City of yes, which is something that happened under Mayor Adams is his administration. And that was something that was primarily driven by his deputy mayors, by his planning commissioner. He wasn't in those rooms making that case because he was too busy facing the first federal indictment of a New York City mayor in modern history. And he was almost entirely removed. And I think that we see the possibility of what could happen without the presence of a mayor. What if you had a mayor who was making that case all the time? Because I agreed with. With that plan and I think it needed to go further in eliminating the requirements to build parking and increasing density around mass transit hubs. And even in upzoning wealthier neighborhoods that have historically not contributed to affordable housing production. And I think that it's there is another issue at hand here, which is that, you know, I talk a lot about how the election is part of a larger conversation about the Democratic Party, how it's part of a larger conversation of whether Republican billionaires can buy another race as they're, you know, sending a million dollars a day into Andrew Cuomo super pac. But there's also a different conversation in that, you know, New York City, for example, the MTA makes up 40% of all public transit trips in the United States of America. If we get something right here, it can be a model for, for what could happen across this country. But instead of that efficiency, what we have is a continued insistence that this is all it could ever be and a reverse New York exceptionalism that points to things working elsewhere in the world and the country and saying, I just couldn't be here because this is New York. And we have to change that. We have to return back to that ambition that you were talking about from the early 1900s and a sense of humility that if someone else has gotten it right, we should learn from.

[Richard Karn]

Hi, I'm Richard Karn and you may have seen me on TV talking about the world's number one expandable garden hose. Well, the brand new pocket hose Copperhead with pocket pivot is here and it's a total game changer. Old fashioned hoses get kinks and creases at the spigot, but the Copperhead's pocket pivot swivels 360 degrees for full water flow and freedom to water with ease all around your home. When you're all done, this rust proof anti burst hose shrinks back down to pocket size for effortless handling and tidy storage. Plus your super light and ultra durable pocket hose Copperhead is backed with a 10 year warranty. What could be better than that? I'll tell you what an exciting exclusive offer just for you. For a limited time, you can get a free pocket pivot and their 10 pattern sprayer with the purchase of any size Copperhead hose. Just text water to 64,000. That's water to 64,000 for your two free gifts with purchase W A T EE R to 64,000.

[Cameron]

By texting 64,000 you agree to receive recurring automated marketing messages from Pocket Hose. Message and data rates may apply. No purchase required. Terms apply. Available at pockethose.com terms them.

[Cameron Caskey]

Well, while we've got Andrew Cuomo's MAGA donor millionaire packs on the mind. I wanted to bring up something that I saw. So, look, Cuomo still has you beat and he's still way ahead of you in sexual misconduct allegations and falsely reported senior citizen home deaths. And I don't think you're going to be able.

[Tim Miller]

Well, that's true about everybody in the race. Okay, all right. Like, he's also way ahead of Zelda on those topics.

[Cameron Caskey]

You're not going to be able to catch up with him on that. And. But according to Politico recently, you were ahead in a poll and I was like, huh? If you had told me four months ago that a Muslim man in New York City who is running as a socialist and is being critical of our great friends over in the state of Israel was slaying this hard, I would have been like, well, that's not going to happen. That's impossible. And now I've got friends of mine who are very pro Israel and who. And who give me a lot of shit about some of my takes. And they're posting your graphic that's like, oh, it's Zoran Day. Go vote for Zo. I'm like, I feel like a lot of the fear mongering that's been done and directed at you by Cuomo's PAC and similar groups isn't really resonating with people. We're going to throw the image up right now. Cuomo's pack there was mag billionaire types put out an image of Zoran where they photoshopped him, I guess to look more like the scary stereotype Muslim they want you to be afraid of and look candidly. Zoran. I think you look handsome in both of these. So, you know, just okay for me, as far as I'm concerned, I think you're. I think you look great. But it's, it was definitely very alarming. And I think the most interesting thing for me was that it didn't seem to work. And New York City is one of those places where I really thought it would. So that brings me to a topic that has really been compelling to me in this conversation, which is I'm actually going to start with Tim here. Tim, I'm going to name four things and I want you to tell me if you can tell, what binds them all together. You ready?

[Tim Miller]

Okay, great.

[Cameron Caskey]

Donald Trump, Andrew Cuomo, Prime Minister Modi's Hindu nationalist efforts.

[Tim Miller]

Oh, man.

[Cameron Caskey]

And my AP U.S. history teacher.

[Tim Miller]

I don't want to impugn. I don't want to malign your AP US History teacher by where my head's going about how that person might have treated the girls in your class. So I'll pass.

[Cameron Caskey]

The answer is Islamophobia. And that has been something that I've seen all over the place in this campaign. And, you know, when I get anti Semitism directed at me, I kind of like laugh it off because I think it's so stupid. But, you know, I also walk through the TSA line like, hey, everybody, how you doing? So I feel like I have a little bit of privilege here. Whereas for you, does that shit weigh down on you ever? Like, do you ever get this Islamophobic shit and actually take it to heart, or are you just chilling?

[Zoran Mamdani]

It's. My general impulse has been to not talk about it, but it's gotten to the point where I have to. I woke up the other day to a message that said a good Muslim is a dead Muslim. These are the kinds of threats I get their voicemails, their emails, their DMs, to the extent that I have to have security because we, we had a, we had a press conference where a MAGA supporter was yelling and then eventually ended up biting one of our volunteers. And one of the things he was yelling was that, you know, that I'm not, I don't belong here. And then his accomplice was yelling that I should be disgusted to, should be ashamed of being a brown Muslim. And, and I think it's, it is, it's sad above all other things because it's, it's both expected, it's very much out of the Trump playbook to, to paint someone as an other. But so often it's, it's quite tempting to say that these are solely Republican styles of politics when what we're seeing right now is a Democratic primary where you have candidates in this race who've used language to describe me that is more fitting for a beast than a person. Language like a monster language, such as being at the gates language, as if this is the end of this city and of civilization as we know it. And, and to have that coupled with these Republican billionaire funded mailers that artificially lengthen my beard and darken it, it very much feels like 2002 all over again. And, and what's, what's sad is also this sense in what we see with Andrew Cuomo is that so much of what Democratic critique has been of Donald Trump has been that these actions, this rhetoric, it's antithetical to what we want our politics to be. And yet there's too much of an echo of that same kind of rhetoric in Our own politics. And I think it's. It cannot be separated from Cuomo being on that debate stage and saying that he's never been to a mosque, having led this state for more than a decade. Because you. You don't go somewhere if you don't believe people are a part of that thing that you represent. And if you don't see Muslims as New Yorkers, then. Then why would you visit them? And that's that about your.

[Tim Miller]

As a lapsed Catholic, how. How Muslim are we? Like, are you halal? Are we. Are you, you know, sneaking some drinks on the side? Like, what.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Where there's a.

[Tim Miller]

Where are we on the scale?

[Zoran Mamdani]

There's. You know, one of the things I admire is this idea of kosher style. And I think that's. That's where I would be with halal.

[Tim Miller]

Halal style.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Halal style.

[Tim Miller]

Do you ever stick a smoke. Do you ever sneak a cig? Do you ever sneak a sig?

[Zoran Mamdani]

Zora. Sigs. Sig. Sigs are permissible.

[Tim Miller]

They are permissible. Okay. All right. What about shot?

[Zoran Mamdani]

You gotta come.

[Tim Miller]

You ever.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Shots are not permissible.

[Tim Miller]

Have you. So have you ever had one?

[Zoran Mamdani]

But sigs. I would say you should come on Steinway for Ramadan. All right, and we'll take you. We'll take you 2am you'll see every uncle you can find in the world having a slim cigs.

[Tim Miller]

All right, I'm down for that. I appreciate the invite.

[Cameron Caskey]

As far as Bulwark contributors go, I am the most halal style. I don't drink, I don't do drugs. There's a Muslim thing. Here's a Muslim thing, Tim, that you should do, okay? If you. You meet a woman for the first time, you greet her, you say hello, you put your hand gently on your heart.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Look at this guy.

[Cameron Caskey]

You do a little nod.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Look at this guy.

[Cameron Caskey]

And if they come in for the hug, then you do the hug and you. And you accept the hug and you give. But doing this. And it gives them the out. If they don't want to do the hug. This start.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Cameron. Salaam alaikum, brother.

[Tim Miller]

Do you have any other tips? Any other.

[Cameron Caskey]

Shit?

[Tim Miller]

Tim, this has gotten too fucking friendly. Okay, we're getting to the hard part now. Sorry.

[Cameron Caskey]

Wait, can I do one more thing?

[Tim Miller]

One more nice thing? Okay, one more good twink. And then we get the bad twink question.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Gtvt.

[Tim Miller]

GTVT is coming. BT is about to come. Watch out.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Go.

[Tim Miller]

Camera.

[Cameron Caskey]

Okay, so this is to you, Zoran, but also just directly to the audience in terms of Dating, it has been a disaster for me lately. My heart has been broken. I have broken hearts. My heart has been broken by two different women who both follow Zoharan on Instagram. So, you know, whatever that means, but reconsider. I'm trying to get back on the seat. Listen to him. I'm trying to get back on the scene.

[Tim Miller]

Maybe that's the problem. Maybe you should be dating Whitney Tilson gals Cameron. That's not be something to consider.

[Cameron Caskey]

I'm trying to get back in the dating scene, you know, spread my wings and fly a little bit. And it's. I'm seeing all these pieces about how third spaces are going away, places where people can all come together and socialize and, you know, Halal cam can hang out without drinking, and we can get to know one another and be part of a community the way that we all want to be. When we're in a city where you can meet all these people, like in Gen Z, people aren't meeting each other anymore. Like people my age just don't even know how to interact with other human beings. And I'm wondering, I know that Covid has played such a huge part in those spaces, you know, being harder to access, but what's your take moving into being mayor of how we're going to revitalize those scenes, make it the city that never sleeps again?

[Zoran Mamdani]

I think part of it is actually enjoying this job. You know, people often talk about being the mayor as if it is something that is purely a burden and a responsibility, and it is incredibly important. There's so much that you have to do to live up to the position, and it's also an opportunity to celebrate the city and to shine a light on what we love about this city. And I think to what you're saying with this demise of third spaces, what I would tell you, first of all, I would say to the two women that broke your heart to, to. To reconsider in this moment. The second thing I'd tell you is that I met my wife on Hinge, so there is still hope in, in those dating apps. And, and the. The third would be that it's. It's been an interesting part of the story about Muslims in New York City is also this moment of Yemeni coffee shops across New York City. There are now maybe five or six different Yemeni coffee shop chains. And what makes them distinct is unlikely. The coffee shops that we've kind of become familiar with, These are coffee shops that will stay open until about midnight, 1am, 2am sometimes. And so they become this kind of third space where you can go and just sit and chat and hang out with friends. And I would tell you that's somewhere you should check out. You should go to this place called Kawahaus Mocha and Co. Mo Cafe. These are a lot of the places where people are finding some time to just relax. And I think the other point is that it's city government's responsibility to ensure that we have more of those public spaces that can function in the same way. I mean, parks, especially during COVID were a place where so many New Yorkers were able to actually reconnect with their city and their friends. And those parks are being underfunded. And part of the result of that is that they are not at the level of excellence that we've come to expect, but also that that cutting of funding has meant that we have brush fires in New York City that we historically wouldn't have because we're cutting funding for the Parks Department employees whose job it is to clear that which could end up going on fire. And I think all of these things come back together in that we want a city where people see themselves in that city, they can afford that city, and they can also actually have relationships and grow friendships across the five boroughs with people that they're currently just living alongside but can never actually interact with.

[Tim Miller]

All right, this tree hugger shit is a nice way to cut to transition me into, into my areas of concern. BT is on the scene, so around here it comes. I have three. I have three buckets of concern. We'll move.

[Richard Karn]

Hi, I'm Richard Karn and you may have seen me on TV talking about the world's number one expandable garden hose. Well, the brand new pocket hose Copperhead with pocket pivot is here and it's a total game changer. Old fashioned hoses get kinks and creases at the spigot, but the Copperhead's pocket pivot swivels 360 degrees for full water flow and free freedom to water with ease all around your home. When you're all done, this rust proof anti burst hose shrinks back down to pocket size for effortless handling and tidy storage. Plus your super light and ultra durable pocket hose. Copperhead is backed with a 10 year warranty. What could be better than that? I'll tell you what an exciting exclusive offer just for you for a limited time. You can get a free Pocket Pivot and their 10 pattern sprayer with the purchase of any size Copperhead hose. Just Text water to 64,000 that's water to 64,000 for your two free gifts with purchase w a t e r to 64,000 by texting 64,000.

[Cameron]

You agree to receive recurring automated marketing messages from Pocket Host. Message and data rates may apply. No purchase required. Terms apply. [e-mail] terms them quickly.

[Tim Miller]

Are you ready? Number one is, as I mentioned earlier, capitalism, you tweeted. Taxation isn't theft. Capitalism is. You also want to seize the means of produce production in New York City. I would like to hear your thoughts on both those topics.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Topics, yes. Well, I would say judging me by my tweets sends me down a long road of.

[Tim Miller]

I've seen bad tweets too, but it's right there. You want to be mayor. You're saying capitalism is theft. That seems bad to me.

[Zoran Mamdani]

What I've said over the course of this campaign is what I would focus on. And what my critiques of capitalism have been and continue to be is that this inequality is a feature of it. And if we do not have a focus on how we actually extend that understanding of dignity that every New Yorker deserves and make it a reality, you know, if you talk to New Yorkers, you'll say, yeah, everyone deserves public education, you know, being able to go to a library, sanitation. But then there are certain things that we agree are just as critical, and yet we allow people to be priced in or out of those things, whether we're talking about housing or we're talking about producers. And I think that comes to your second point is our proposal to create a pilot program for a network of municipal owned grocery stores. Now, this is a program, to be clear, that would be one store in each borough, five stores across New York City. It would cost five stores.

[Tim Miller]

This might be an interesting test case to see how poorly it does compared to.

[Zoran Mamdani]

But look, I think no matter how you think about the idea. Yeah, I do think that there should be more room for reasonable policy experimentation in our cities and in our countries where we actually test out our ideas. And if they work, they work. And if they don't work, c' est la vie. Then. Then the idea was wrong. But the reason I think it would work is that this is less than half the cost of what the city's already spending on subsidizing corporate supermarkets through a program called City Fresh. The city's set to spend about 140 million through those subsidies. And it doesn't come with a guarantee of cheaper groceries, doesn't come with a requirement to accept SNAP or WIC or to engage in collective bargaining. And over the more than 10 years that it's been in operation, we see just a few more than a dozen stores that have actually received this. And ultimately the reason I think this could work is it's worked in Kansas. There's been a feasibility study done in Chicago about the urgency of it and the end and that it can actually be implemented and that we are here in a city where if you're making 40k a year or 200k a year, you'll still hear that sticker shock of going to the grocery store, of not knowing if you can actually.

[Tim Miller]

I'm with you on. Yeah, I'm with you on the test. I'll just say we had. I. So I lived in Oakland, in a low income neighborhood in Oakland for a while a couple years ago, and they put one of the community stores in those that the city was subsidizing. One of the kind of probably seems like similar to the City Fresh program that you're talking about. And it was like, you know, it was a half mile from the Walmart, which had much cheaper food in the end and like the place shut down. Right. Like it just didn't. So sometimes, you know, it's a question of whether or not you can actually make it cheaper. Right. Because in a lot of times some of the bigger chains, like we'll have scale and it might not work. Right.

[Zoran Mamdani]

And I think when you're talking about Walmart, there's also larger national questions about, you know, laws that haven't been followed, about ensuring that there's equal pricing across, across, you know, groceries and these kind of larger warehouse providers. But I think the, the second part of this argument that sometimes gets lost is that even in a city like New York, there are food deserts that are disproportionately impacting black and brown New Yorkers. Where, you know, I represent the largest public housing development in North America, Queensbridge Houses in Western Queens. I have constituents who ask me why can I find five fast food restaurants in a five block radius, but I can't find a place where I can afford good produce. And I think that, that when you're starting with five, one in each borough, it also allows you to solve multiple problems at the same time. It's not to say that the vision here is we will not stop until there is a municipal owned grocery store in every block. It's that we're trying to solve a problem.

[Tim Miller]

Got it. Okay.

[Zoran Mamdani]

And how do we do?

[Tim Miller]

So let me go to my number two issue of what concerns me about you, other mayors of your Ilk, whatever you want to call them, dsa, squadish, progressive, aren't exactly crushing it. Brandon Johnson is in Chicago. I've seen a poll this year with him at 6% approval and another one with him at 14% approval. So there's a lot of Democrats in Chicago that are pretty unhappy with him. That's not just the Republicans. What do you like, what do you think about what Brandon Johnson is doing in Chicago? Do you have a model of a progressive mayor you think is doing a good job?

[Zoran Mamdani]

I think Mayor Wu has been doing a very good job in Boston and she's someone who has been an inspiration of mine, even just in my focus on fare free bus transit that was built out of, in part the results we saw when she made a number of bus routes free in Boston. One of them was Route 28. By making it free, they decreased the dwell time at each bus stop by 23%. So it was showcasing again that you do this, it's not just economic relief, it's also the speed of this bus, the public safety of this bus. And you know, to Cameron's point earlier, I am two years younger than Mayor Wu was when she ran for that same position. And I think when we're thinking about a new generation of leadership, having a model that works is important. The other point that I would make is that oftentimes critiques of someone on the left's administration is seen as if it is one that has to be, that is reflective of an inability of that ideological bend to govern. And yet when we have someone so proudly considered a centrist like Eric Adams, his failures are considered to be personal ones as opposed to political failures of his ideology.

[Tim Miller]

Eric somehow is still more popular than Brandon Johnson, which is concerning, I would think, if you're Brandon.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Eric is a very talented communicator.

[Cameron Caskey]

He's the mayor of the Tel Aviv of America. Okay, sorry, sorry.

[Tim Miller]

Tel Aviv sense of we're going to get to Israel next. It's the last final topic. But just really quick on Brandon Johnson. I just want to give one specific example of something that worries me about progressive type mayors.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Right.

[Tim Miller]

So we were talking about housing earlier. Right. And so in March, Brandon Johnson tweeted that Chicago invested 11 billion to build 10,000 more units of affordable housing. That's a million. A unit like that's just way more expensive than market rate housing. And one of the reasons was if you look at how they did the projects, they had these goals, you know, and if you to get a project. Right. Okay, you've seen this, right? So it's like you got 10 points if it's green. That's good. I like green. You got 11 points if it was BIPOC. You got another 11 points if there are women on the development team. I like bipocs and women building things, but like, you only got three points if you contained cost. And so it just feels like there was a. There's like this priority miss sometimes with progressive folks who are like, so I want to keep everybody in the coalition happy over, you know, getting, you know, doing affordable housing or whatever for the, for working class folks in the city. What do you say to that critique?

[Zoran Mamdani]

I think that it is not a model that is working to its intent. The intent is to build as much affordable housing, and if that is the amount of money it costs to build, then you will simply not be able to build to the extent that's required. And it's interesting in that, you know, that cost per unit that you're highlighting is, is one of a, of a critique of a public sector position. And then also here in New York City, we've had a very different style of, of incentivizing the production of affordable housing through tax incentives for developers that has seen similar costs of more than a million oftentimes for the creation of an affordable unit. And I think that this is also where earlier in the conversation we were having, we on the left, we have to care about excellence in public service, because if our whole vision for affordable housing is unable to actually match the scale of this crisis, then it's not worth its salt. And to me, I think we also have to ask ourselves larger questions of how do we drive down the cost of so much of what we build? Because it's very tempting to look at the Second Avenue subway being the most expensive subway mile in the history of the world and say, oh, this is because of labor costs, when in reality, Paris has just as strong, if not stronger, labor unions and their cost per mile is significantly lower. And I think a lot of this comes.

[Tim Miller]

There weren't 100 consultants getting paid.

[Zoran Mamdani]

And I think that's the thing. You know, in the first phase of the Second Avenue subway, we spent more on consulting than construction. And I think this comes back to there's an addiction we have to contracting to consulting. But I think also what we need to do more of is say that this is the amount of money we're spending and we have to work backwards from this. How do we ensure that we are actually able to innovate in the public sector? Because there are examples of that, you know, the mini fridge in the United States exists because nycha, New York City Housing Authority, put out an RFP for a specific size fridge that could fit in a public housing unit. That is also a story of innovation. But that story is lost when the larger story is one of betraying the hundreds of thousands of New Yorkers who live in that housing unit in substandard conditions.

[Tim Miller]

Last one, then we'll look good. Twink, close it out. All right, so we get to the Israel we mentioned, the Islamophobia, obviously, we also have to be worried about the uptick of anti Semitism. And there's one thing in particular that frustrates me when talking with folks on the left, and that is like downplaying this conversation about how there obviously is anti Semitism on the right, but there's anti Semitism coming from the left and coming from these protests. And one example I think of is this phrase globalize the intifada, which is a very popular phrase at protests on the left. And maybe some people say that phrase with good intent, but there are certainly some people who are saying that phrase with violent intent. So I wonder what you think about that, about the phrase globalized intifada and what we've seen as some anti Semitism coming from the left wing protesters.

[Zoran Mamdani]

I think the first thing, as you were saying, is antisemitism is a real issue in our city, and it's one that can be captured in statistics, the ones that you're citing. It's also one that you will feel in conversations you have with Jewish New Yorkers across the city. And I remember one conversation I had with a friend of mine after the horrific war crime of October 7th. He was telling me that he went for Shabbat services at his temple and he was facing forward when he heard the door open and he turned back with a chill going up his spine because he didn't know who was coming in. And that's more than a year ago. And then just a few weeks ago, I had a conversation with a Jewish man in Williamsburg who told me that he. The same door he would keep unlocked for decades is one that he now locks out of a fear of. Of what. What could happen in his own neighborhood. And I think that this, this is something that has to be the focus of the next mayoral administration, is not just talking about it, but tackling it. And these are the conversations that have informed our commitment around increasing funding for anti hate crime programming by 800% in our department of Community Safety and in the. In, you know, to the question of language that's being used. I am someone who, I would say am. Am less comfortable with the idea of banning the use of certain words and that I think it is more evocative of a Trump style approach to how to lead a country. And, and I think, especially when we've seen. Sure.

[Tim Miller]

But like, does that just make you uncomfortable? Like the phrase globalized intifada, from the river to the sea, does that make you come uncomfortable?

[Cameron Caskey]

Or do you think, okay, those are different. Those are super. They're not really different genres.

[Tim Miller]

I'm sorry, I'm asking Zoran then. They're not really different to me, and to some people they're not different.

[Zoran Mamdani]

You know, I, I know people for whom those things mean very different things. And, and to me, ultimately, what I hear in so many is a desperate desire for equality and equal rights in, in standing up for Palestinian human rights. And I think what's difficult also is that the very word is has been used by the Holocaust Museum when translating the Warsaw Ghetto uprising into Arabic because it's a word that means struggle.

[Tim Miller]

Sure.

[Zoran Mamdani]

And as a Muslim man who grew up post 9 11, I'm all too familiar in the way in which Arabic words can be twisted, can be distorted, can be used to justify any kind of meaning. And I think that's, that's where it leaves me with a sense that what we need to do is, is focus on keeping Jewish New Yorkers safe. And the question of the permissibility of language is something that I, that I haven't, I haven't ventured into.

[Tim Miller]

All right, Cameron, close us out. Good twink, give us something nice while we're on.

[Cameron Caskey]

While we're on Israel, I want to do two quick hot takes. This is a new segment called Hot Takes with Cam and Zoran. Zoran's gonna rate my hot takes. Number one, I find myself talking about the women and children in Palestine who are being indiscriminately killed. And I try to reason with people and talk to them about what's going on and tell them how tragic it is. And I'm always talking about these innocent women and children. And I feel like it's kind of fucked up that I say women and children as if it's okay that the men are dying. And I feel like when I say it like that I'm sort of playing into the hand of the people who want me to be hateful and fearful and who want me to think that every guy who's getting killed by these bombs is a terrorist. So I don't really know how to move forward with it, because saying women and children is a way to get, you know, get some sympathy from people who otherwise are not sympathetic towards the issue. But also, I don't want to be part of this, like, general vibe that, oh, okay, but when the men die, you know, that's just how it is. That's my take.

[Zoran Mamdani]

I, I think about this often, and I think about the way in which certain words convey innocence and certain words convey almost a complicity. And there was even a time during the height of, of drone strikes where our government would define military combatants as being military aged men. You know, we're talking about any man between the ages of 18 and I think around 50 or so. And you are just assumed to be guilty by virtue of being in that age range and being a man. And I think that's, I think that what, what you're saying also speaks to the fact that humanity has to be something we give to all people. And, and that also means going beyond just the easy, easy aspect of who we should grieve and who we believe in some sense is actually beyond worthy of that same grief.

[Tim Miller]

Cameron, we're over and I'm pulling Greg. We need to get him on the Never Trumper thing. I forgot. We forgot. We're over time. We have to get him on Trump. This is the home of the Never Trumpers. If I'm going to be bad cop, I need to also let you cook. So can we close on that? I mean, Donald Trump is fucking militarizing our cities. He just put out a bleat yesterday saying that he wants to send more ICE agents into New York. Militarize New York. If you're mayor next year and he's trying to send the troops into New York to hassle Americans or to hassle immigrants for that matter, what are you going to do about it?

[Zoran Mamdani]

I think we have to be able to call it what it is, which is authoritarianism. What we're seeing in Los Angeles, what we're even seeing in that military parade, are endless examples of Donald Trump seeking to move beyond being a president and start to, to thinking of this country as if it is simply his playground. You know, for, for him to embark upon his wildest fantasies about being a dictator of this nation. And part of it is being able to call it what it is. Part of it is also being able to actually stand up and fight back. And one of the things is understanding the law as something that has to be followed, not just the suggestion that Trump sees it. And that also means investing in the city's law department. We are 200 lawyers down from where we were pre pandemic. And getting back to that level and also ensuring pay parity for those lawyers across city agencies is part of what could allow this city to do what Gavin Newsom did, right? To actually pursue legal means and legal recourse. And I think what's, what's terrifying in this moment is we have a president for whom even that legal recourse still leaves the question of whether he follows it. Right? There's a New Yorker right now who's in an ICE detention facility hundreds of miles away, Mahmoud Khalil, who no crime has actually been stated. It's been said that his detention is unlawful. He continues to be in that facility. And I think what, what is so terrifying in this moment is you have a Trump administration that is weaponizing the very real issue of anti Semitism as a pretext for throwing students into prison for the crime of having written an op ed. And that's what is so important in having a mayor who will stand up for our constitution, stand up for our city, and will actually also start to unabashedly stand up for that which has made us safe, which is laws like sanctuary city policies which are providing, you know, legal representation to immigrant New Yorkers in detention proceedings. Because if we all care, as we said we did, about keeping families together, these are the legal mechanisms by which we can actually deliver that.

[Cameron Caskey]

Zoran, thank you so much for joining us. This has been a hoot. You'll have to come on soon because I want to ask you what you would do as mayor about Spider man, who people love, but he is a criminal.

[Tim Miller]

I'm also sending you this link about LCD sound system. I found it. Pitchfork. If you're a millennial, a millennial mayor needs to have the millennial band. Like putting some music in the subway. This feels like a good priority.

[Zoran Mamdani]

I appreciate it. I want to say that I equally appreciate GT and bt. This was a great time and I would love to come back on whenever.

[Cameron Caskey]

Thanks so much, man.