67,000 People Are Suddenly Running for Office?! (w/ Amanda Litman)

Summary

FYPod – "67,000 People Are Suddenly Running for Office?!"

Host: The Bulwark (Cameron Caskey & Tim Miller)
Guest: Amanda Litman (Co-founder & President, Run for Something)
Release date: September 13, 2025

---

Episode Overview

This episode features Amanda Litman, co-founder of Run for Something, discussing the unprecedented surge of 67,000 people declaring their intention to run for office in the past 10 months. The conversation explores what’s motivating this new wave of (mainly young) candidates, how Run for Something supports and vets them, and what makes a compelling public leader in the TikTok age.

The hosts and Amanda also unpack the challenges and opportunities for young and nontraditional candidates, the role of authenticity and social media in politics, notable success stories, and how cultural anxieties—especially around family formation and youth priorities—are shaping political engagement.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Amanda Litman’s Background & Mission of Run for Something

• Amanda’s political path (Obama 2012, Charlie Crist 2014, Hillary 2016) led her to found Run for Something, wanting to democratize access to running for office after seeing the process was deeply exclusive.
• Run for Something “recruits and supports young, diverse leaders running for local office all across the country” ([01:48]).

Quote

"What we have done is blown open the doors to that and said, if you want to run for office, we want to help you." —Amanda Litman ([08:11])

---

The Historic Surge in Candidate Interest

• Amanda shares that 67,000 people have expressed interest in running for office in the last 10 months—more than in all of Trump’s first term.
• The mood among prospective candidates is intense and angry: "They're fucking furious at Democratic Party leadership" ([07:43]).

Quote

"It's like people who are pissed. They are running locally... They want to talk about the issues." —Amanda Litman ([07:43])

---

How Run for Something Screens & Supports Candidates

• Amanda explains the challenge of filtering out “nutcases” among 67k sign-ups.
  • Language and curriculum naturally filter for values alignment; the endorsement process provides the "firm value screen."
  • Approach adapts for local context: pro-choice in rural Iowa looks different than in Manhattan ([09:54]).

Notable Segment

• Screening for values vs. purity tests ([09:54]-[10:42])
• Full-service candidate support: From application to post-election strategy, technology, and community building ([08:11]).

---

Inspiring Candidate Stories

• Highlight: Justin Douglas (Dauphin County, PA):
  • Fired from ministry for LGBTQ inclusion, Uber driver, CrossFit athlete, ran on pro-democracy & criminal justice reform, flipped county commission for the first time in 100+ years, now running against Scott Perry for Congress ([10:55]-[12:33]).

Quote

"He ultimately was able to win in 2023 by about 150 votes... flipping control of the county Commission for the first time in over 100 years." —Amanda Litman ([11:48])

---

What Makes a Compelling Candidate in the TikTok Age?

• Credentials vs. Authenticity:
  • Too many Democrats are still credential-obsessed (“Chamber of Commerce types"); now, value-driven authenticity matters more, especially with so much exposure on social media ([13:33]-[14:08]).
• Ability to "perform authenticity": You must have sincere values and an ability to communicate naturally—voters detect fakes ([14:23]-[18:24]).
• Parasocial relationships: Candidates today need to cultivate a “parasocial” dynamic with voters, blending on- and offline engagement ([18:24]).

Quotes

"You can’t manufacture authenticity... At the end of the day, people see right through the bullshit." —Cameron Caskey ([15:44])

"You have to know how to perform that authenticity... you are performing a certain amount… with some boundaries." —Amanda Litman ([18:24])

---

Lessons from Viral/X-Factor Campaigns

• Case Study: Zoran Mamdani’s NYC Mayoral Campaign
  • Demonstrated the formula: values-focused, voters-first messaging, combining substantive content with high online and offline engagement ([19:58]-[21:25])
  • “He didn’t really do a bio-focused campaign… it’s about the way that they make you feel.” ([21:25]-[22:45])

Quote

"It wasn't really about him, it was about what people were going to get if you won." —Amanda Litman ([20:14])

---

Rethinking Qualifications & Encouraging Nontraditional Candidates

• Traditional “qualified” leaders haven’t stemmed the tide of authoritarianism; Run for Something is intentionally encouraging people without classic resumes to jump in ([24:16]-[25:28]).

Quotes

"You do not have to have experience as a politician... You need to care. You need to [be] willing to do the work. You cannot be lazy." —Amanda Litman ([25:28])

"We want people who can communicate, like normies... It's good to be a normal person who just cares enough to do what is... extraordinary." —Amanda Litman ([26:02])

---

Barriers & Attacks Young/Nonrich Candidates Face

• “Not a homeowner” smears (e.g. candidate is “just a renter”) are surprisingly persistent and coded as exclusionary and out-of-touch given young Americans’ realities ([31:03]-[31:50]).

Quotes

"We don't have freeholder shit anymore. You don't have to own property to have a say… but this idea... implies they're, like, transient or not welcome." —Amanda Litman ([31:06])

---

Youth, Identity & the Shifting Demographic of Candidates

• Youth alone isn’t a selling point—what matters is the experiences young people bring, e.g. dealing with student debt, housing, or family planning ([32:50]-[33:36]).
• Many young candidates struggle with their "old" social media histories; Amanda says most things don't matter unless they're "Mark Robinson-level bad" ([35:31]-[36:20]).
• “Normification” is important—a willingness to be open, relatable, and established in the community makes a bigger difference than credentials or perfect pasts ([25:54], [26:02]).

---

The Dark Side: Social Media & Running for Office

• Social platforms have made local races far more vicious (accusations of infidelity, paid influencers masquerading as independent, “wild west” campaigning).
• Amanda: "You gotta know what's out there... Also think about your friends and your family and how they're going to engage... cultivate a pretty good network of people who will be your online keyboard warriors" ([39:29]).

Quotes

"You have to have a tough skin because especially the more local you get, it's going to get real personal. It's going to get nasty." —Amanda Litman ([40:20])

---

The Upside: Opportunities Even in Tough Political Cycles

• Run for Something is recruiting in places newly competitive due to redistricting or demographic change—thinking long-term with an eye toward building infrastructure for future wins ([41:31]-[42:29]).

Example

• Lily Franklin, rural Virginia, running again for a House seat she narrowly lost: "I think it's cool when people lose and decide that doesn't discourage them." ([43:16])

---

Deep Dive: Youth, Values, & The Family Formation Crisis

• Gen Z’s relationship to marriage, kids, and “success”: Discussing provocative polling that showed Gen Z women (esp. Harris voters) don’t rate marriage/kids highly, while Gen Z Trump-voting men do—but may have regressive gender assumptions ([43:17]-[50:09]).
• Amanda reflects on her own experience: “I love being a mom way more than I ever expected... But it feels like a privilege... because I can afford full time childcare and have married well... It's hard to share the good sides publicly, because people will just say, ‘Yeah, but you have money’” ([48:11]).

Quotes

"Do you want to have kids, or do you want to parent children? Those are two different things." —Amanda Litman ([50:09])

• The hosts and Amanda discuss millennial/Gen Z parenting, hyper-involved parents, and how cultural norms have shifted to create new anxieties about when and how to have children ([51:20]-[55:30]).

Quotes

"I think that understanding and wanting to fix... what make[s] it expensive are cool and good. But I just wish that we could figure out a way to cultivate... how meaningful and great parenthood is alongside how challenging it is." —Tim Miller ([54:37])

---

Gender, Choice, & the Goldilocks Generation

• Amanda: Many thirty-something women are the first to really be able to choose both career and family—and are caught between generations, with Gen Z facing even less perceived choice due to economic precarity, abortion rights, and more ([54:40]-[55:30]).
• “It's really hard to decide when in your career do you want to have kids... When we can't talk about the joy and the meaning alongside the hardship, it’s really hard to see the upside.” —Amanda Litman ([55:30])

---

Notable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• "It's people who are pissed... and they are fucking furious at Democratic Party leadership." —Amanda Litman ([07:43])
• "You can’t manufacture authenticity. ...People see right through the bullshit." —Cameron Caskey ([15:44])
• "You have to know how to perform that authenticity... you are performing a certain amount with some boundaries." —Amanda Litman ([18:24])
• "He ultimately was able to win in 2023 by about 150 votes... flipping control of the county Commission for the first time in over 100 years." —Amanda Litman ([11:48])
• "What we have done is blown open the doors to that and said, if you want to run for office, we want to help you." —Amanda Litman ([08:11])
• “We want people who can communicate, like normies... It’s good to be a normal person who just cares enough to do what is... extraordinary.” —Amanda Litman ([26:02])
• “Do you want to have kids, or do you want to parent children? Because those are two different things.” —Amanda Litman ([50:09])
• “There’s never a good time. There’s only the time you decide to do it, and then you figure it out.” —Amanda Litman ([58:16])

---

Important Timestamps by Segment

• [01:25] Amanda describes her path into politics
• [07:34]-[08:11] The 67,000 candidate surge and motives explored
• [09:54]-[10:42] “Nutcase” filtering and value alignment in candidate support
• [10:55]-[12:33] Justin Douglas story—Run for Something’s impact
• [13:33]-[18:24] Credentials, authenticity, and the “performance” of sincerity
• [19:58]-[22:45] Zoran Mamdani’s campaign: lessons for future candidates
• [25:28]-[26:02] Rethinking “qualifications” for office
• [31:03]-[31:50] Homeowner bias in political attacks
• [35:31]-[36:20] The reality of candidate social media histories
• [39:29]-[40:20] Social media’s wild west in local politics
• [41:31]-[42:29] Where Run for Something is placing strategic bets for future wins
• [43:17]-[50:09] Youth, family, and culture wars: polling, parenting, generational divides

---

Tone & Takeaways

• The episode’s tone is sharp, candid, and energetic, blending humor with insight.
• Amanda, Tim, and Cam debate “serious” statistics, share hilarious campaign war stories, and inject self-deprecating admissions about both politics and parenthood.
• The discussion reframes "running for office" from an insular, credential-centric process to a populist, democratized movement, placing value on authenticity, resilience, and genuine connection with voters.

---

For Listeners: Why This Episode Matters

If you care about the future of American politics, this episode illustrates a generational changing of the guard. It unpacks the new playbook for running for office—where values, relatability, and the courage to be a “normie” with convictions now matter more than resume lines. Whether you're a would-be candidate, a voter, or just a Gen Z observer of the political transformation, there’s wisdom here on how social change really happens from the ground up—and what it looks and feels like when 67,000 new people want to lead.

---

For more: Check out Amanda Litman’s books online and follow Run for Something for real-time updates on America’s next wave of public leaders.

Transcript

[Amanda Lippman]

I've never felt like this before. It's like you just get me. I feel like my true self with you. Does that sound crazy? And it doesn't hurt that you're gorgeous. Okay, that's it. I'm taking you home with me. I mean, you can't find shoes this good just anywhere. Find a shoe for every you from brands you love like Birkenstock, Nike, Adidas and more at your DSW store or.

[Cameron Caskey]

Dsw.Com it's what I say to people who ask me how to become a political content creator. First of all, I'm not even that good at it, but it's like I have one tool in my box for content creation other than being very, very funny, and that's sincerity. And I say to people like, you can be a seven, and being a seven objectively, but being a politics, 12, sav.

[Tim Miller]

Hey, everybody. I'm Tim Miller.

[Cameron Caskey]

And I'm Cam Caskey. And this is Fypod, the show on Bulwark where we talk about young people stuff and also some other things as well. I'm thrilled today to be joined by my friend Amanda Lippman, who I've known for many years. Amanda runs Run for Something, which makes the incredibly inaccessible effort to run for office, something that a lot more people can do. And Amanda, a lot of people are looking to see who's going to step up in the midterms. And you've got some positive updates about it?

[Amanda Lippman]

I do. So in the last 10 months, since.

[Tim Miller]

Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. Can we hear about. I mean, me and, you know, Amanda. I know Amanda. I know the bangs. We go way back. We've all hung before. But, like, the viewers, could we learn a little bit about. Could you tell the viewers a little bit about you before we get wonky on statistics about, you know, who's running for city council in Pawtucket? Like, it'd be nice to, like, learn about you a little bit.

[Amanda Lippman]

So kind. So kind. It's almost as if you do this for a living. I'm Amanda. I'm co founder and president of Run for Something. Run for Something recruits and support young, diverse leaders running for local office all across the country. Campaign rat. Worked for Obama. Worked for Charlie Crist down in Florida. Worked for.

[Tim Miller]

Whoa. I didn't know you were a cuck.

[Amanda Lippman]

Oh, that's amazing.

[Tim Miller]

You're a cuck too, like me. I didn't know we had that. I didn't know that part of your bio. You. You cut it off of your usual. Your normal bio I think I know I did that.

[Amanda Lippman]

When he switched parties, I ran. I worked for him in 2014, was.

[Tim Miller]

Republican, ran as a Democrat. What do you think about, you know.

[Amanda Lippman]

You know, what do I think about, you know, I think it give you.

[Tim Miller]

A lot of attention to give you a lot of attention, or.

[Amanda Lippman]

I think Charlie taught me that anybody can be a member of Congress, literally.

[Tim Miller]

Interesting.

[Amanda Lippman]

Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. I was one of my favorite Charlie Chris stories. I was with my. My dad's best friend that's not really that into politics. Yeah, I mean, whatever, just as a normal news consumer. But it's not, you know, not a donor to politics or anything, but his best buddy is a. Is a big donor down in Florida, and he was talking about being a donor to that. That very campaign that you were working on. And we were chatting about this over drinks, and I was like, you know, Charlie Crist is gay, right? And my buddies. My dad's best friend is like, no, he's not. He's not gay. I was like, I don't think he is. Maybe not. I'm sorry, I don't mean to out him. Maybe he's not. I don't know. And his wife, who's a very handsome lady, a very, very beautiful woman, has gone to a lot of fundraisers with them, said, craig, this is the only candidate that gives you more FaceTime than me. So I don't know what he is, but all I know is he didn't have lingering eyes for me. So anyway, it'll remain a mystery, I guess. Okay, I apologize for interrupting. Go take us down, Charlie Christopher. What else did you do?

[Amanda Lippman]

It was a weird cycle, I'll say that. Working in Florida, it's a weird. It's a weird place to be. Worked for Charlie Christopher cycle, then moved to New York to work for Hillary in 2015, 2016, and then started run for something shortly after that, which was to help give people who wanted to run for office somewhere to go.

[Cameron Caskey]

Okay, but what kind of high school kid were you? Were you a debate kid? Were you model un?

[Tim Miller]

Weed, Volleyball?

[Amanda Lippman]

I was the high school TV show. I was one of the producers of that. Smoked a bit of weed my senior year, mostly. Pretty nerdy. A little. Oh, here's a good one. I wasn't a theater kid, but I was a theater critic. I was a high school theater critic, which is maybe the worst version.

[Tim Miller]

You critiqued your high school theater or you critiqued professional theater.

[Amanda Lippman]

So there was a program called Cappies. This is like, really, you're digging in here, where they would send you to go see other high schools shows for free. And then you would have like little conversations afterwards and you'd write reviews and then you'd submit them and the good ones would get published in the local newspaper, which I grew up in the D.C. suburbs, so I would have like reviews of local high school theater but printed in the Washington Post, which I can't imagine they do anymore.

[Cameron Caskey]

And sometimes the Cappies see a production of Fiddler on the Roof at Marjorie Stoneman Douglas High School not long before the tragic shooting there. And they see somebody play Motel Kamzoil, the tailor who married Tevy's, one of Tevy's eldest daughter, Zeitle, and they see him slay Miracle of Miracles even though he was sick. And they don't nominate him for best sporting actor even. And in case you guys couldn't put this together, I played Mottol at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School's production of Fiddler on the Roof. And I was mentioned in several copy reviews. As a matter of fact, the girl who I dated junior to senior year said that the first time she ever had a crush on me was when she saw me as Mottol. And then the Cappy nominations came out and you know, I was running March for Our Lives, big organization. I had a lot of things on my plate, but I noticed there was this glaring omission of Cameron Caskey for supporting actor. And I thought, huh, okay, rigged. But no, the Cappy's just Semitism. Anti. Semitism it was. They didn't even know about my personal background. They just saw Fiddler on the Roof and said, you know what, we're not even going to give it any nominations.

[Tim Miller]

Were you a harsh critic, Amanda? Sorry, do you have more of that?

[Cameron Caskey]

No, honestly. Honestly, actor, we only have an hour, so I'm just going to cut it there. But believe me, I've got plenty more to say about the matter.

[Tim Miller]

All right. Do you harsh credit, Commander?

[Amanda Lippman]

You know, I would say I was even handed. I saw some excellent. I remember an excellent performance of Damn Yankees, which is a great show and a horrific performance of Children of Eden.

[Cameron Caskey]

I think that's a tough one. Lost. Lost in the Wilderness is a very hard song. Speaking of which, I was at the Yankees game last night and I was sitting right in front of a, like a drunk heckler. And I was laughing because the Yankees gave up five runs with zero hits in. I think it was the sixth. And I just couldn't help but laugh because it was like, like farcically comically bad baseball. And the guy got so mad at me. And I was like, sir, sir, I'm so sorry. I'm not trying to twist the knife. It's just. Come on. But I love New York and I love New Yorkers. Amanda. So we met at a Run for Something fundraiser thrown by the best friend of FY pod, who has still not appeared on the show and certainly will one day, Teddy Goff.

[Tim Miller]

But, oh, was that this week? Was that related to your. To your flirtation for maybe running for NY12?

[Cameron Caskey]

I don't know what you're talking about. I don't know what you're talking about. All I know is that New Yorkers are very excited about some huge things. But at a Run for Something fundraiser when the country was a very different place, Donald Trump was in his first term, which was rather different from this one. And I'm wondering, you were helping people run for office five, six years ago, Also longer, but when we met. And you're helping people run for office now. What's shit like? Are people in a positive mood about running for office? Are people hype?

[Amanda Lippman]

They are, which is weird. So we've had 67,000 people raise their hands this year. It's more in the last 10 months than we did in the entirety of Trump's first term.

[Cameron Caskey]

Oh, my God.

[Amanda Lippman]

It's like. It's people who are pissed. They are running locally. They want to talk about housing and childcare and transportation. They want to talk about the issues. They don't see it, and they are fucking furious at Democratic Party leadership.

[Cameron Caskey]

I understand why exactly Run for Something started Running for office is extremely expensive. People don't really know how to do it, even when they want to step up for something, like a local race for school board and things like that. Can you just walk us through kind of the problem and what you guys offer in terms of a solution?

[Amanda Lippman]

So historically, candidate recruitment has been done through, like, gatekeepers, incumbents picking their successors. It used to be done by unions in some places. In the last 10 years it has been. Or 20 years, really. It has been so fully focused on incumbents or party members that have looked for people who can raise money, which has historically meant not young people, not people of color, not women, not LGBTQIA folks. Just, like, if you weren't a rich, white, straight white dude, you probably weren't considered a viable candidate. So you weren't asked to run. What we have done is blown open the doors to that and said, if you want to run for office, we want to help you. So you sign up with [e-mail], you tell us you're thinking about running. We help you figure out how to get on the ballot, how to write a campaign plan, how to get through all of the logistics you need to get through to election Day. If you are running in the right kind of race, you're the right age and you've got the right values alignment, we might endorse you. If you do that, we'll help your campaign figure out strategy. We'll do get you discounts for tech tools. We'll recommend you to partners and to funders. We'll get you volunteers. Volunteers will connect you to other candidates. It's a full soup to nuts from I'm thinking about maybe one day possibly running for office all the way through to I've ran, I've won. I'm now a sitting city council member. Now what?

[Cameron Caskey]

So if you're getting like 67,000 people signing up, how do you filter out the nutcases? Because I'm sure there are so many people like teachers and, and mothers and people who are so promising and have something so important, co hosts and are.

[Tim Miller]

Also throwing their name in the ring.

[Cameron Caskey]

I don't know what you're talking about. One could call them podcast hosts as well because we have a spinoff chann, that's really good. But when you got that many people signing up, you must have some people who are pretty good on a bunch of the issues. But then kind of maha or something like that. How do you filter out the Looney Tunes?

[Amanda Lippman]

Part of it is the language that we use doesn't always appeal to the Looney Tunes. In our various stages of the pipeline, we have different ways of winnowing it down. We've got some curriculum where we want to make sure that people really are aligned on most of the things. The place where you do the firm value screen is the endorsement process that allows us to really ask like, okay, what does it mean for you to be a pro choice school board candidate running in Bumfuck Iowa? What does it mean for you to be climate change's real city council candidate in Missouri? Like, tell us what this looks like for you and how this shows up in your campaign. And we work in all kinds of races and all kinds of states and places where the way you might run as a pro gun safety candidate in Alabama is gonna be very different than, say, for New York or California. But as long as we're aligned generally on values, we can be pretty flexible in how those show up as policies.

[Cameron Caskey]

What's your go to most Inspiring story of, like, you know, single working mother, school board race where Moms for Liberty had a lot of pull, but you guys beat them. Like, do you have the kind of elevator. Here's the awesome thing that we did.

[Amanda Lippman]

So in 2023, we recruited this guy, Justin Douglas, to run for Dauphin County Commission. He's a former pastor who got fired from his congregation for being too welcoming to LGBTQ congregants. He was working as, like, an Uber driver. He had been a CrossFit athlete, really working with the homeless there. We were asking people to run for office, and he was like, I don't know, I guess maybe me. We got him to get more engaged. He ultimately ran in part on pro Democracy campaign because the county commission in Dauphin county oversees the election.

[Tim Miller]

Where is Dolphin County?

[Amanda Lippman]

It's, like, around Harrisburg.

[Tim Miller]

So, okay, Dolphin, I thought you're saying Dolphin like I imagined, you know, kind of idyllic place. Like, yeah, we're little dolphins. Or Harrisburg.

[Amanda Lippman]

Not that I mean Harrisburg, maybe. Idyllic. I don't know. Do you find? Not for me.

[Tim Miller]

It's not for me. Nothing against Harrisburg. If you love it, that's great. But I wouldn't call it idyllic.

[Amanda Lippman]

Lovely place for the people who live there, I'm sure. I'm sure he was able to campaign, particularly on the fact that the jail system in the community had, which is overseen by the county commission, had had a bunch of prisoners die in their care. So he had ran billboards around the county, like, naming the prisoners who had died and asking who was going to hold them accountable. He ultimately was able to win in 2023 by about 150 votes or so, flipping control of the county Commission for the first time in over 100 years. Proceeded to then reform the way that they oversaw the jails, expand access to the polls. He just this week announced he's running for Congress, which is really exciting. He's a very cool guy who's got, like, huge gauged ears, tattoos all over his body, and, like, is so in touch with the community. Has been fighting corruption since he's took office.

[Tim Miller]

Exactly the kind of person he run for Congress against.

[Amanda Lippman]

Scott Perry.

[Tim Miller]

Oh, it's Scott Perry's district.

[Amanda Lippman]

Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

That'll be a big race for. There are people trying to recruit Sarah Longwell into that race, but unfortunately, she is too busy of a job running a burgeoning media company. The what? I want to vibe out with you on a little bit about this recruitment, and we. We've talked, you know, before about. And we can do this more Just about, like, the importance of, like, running in weird places and how people. You don't. You never know what's. What can happen, particularly in a race, in a wave year. So we could do that, too. But I'm more interested right now in your take on, like, what kind of qualities are we going for in a candidate? Because I feel like, you know, in. In 2003, you know, if you're recruiting, if you had your organization, you're recruiting Democrats, you're kind of like, we want somebody that was like the head of the Chamber of Commerce and, you know, like somebody that was a community leader that, you know, I don't know, maybe is not. Maybe he's a little nerdy and, like, cares about policy and what. And those are all. There's a lot of boards, like, those are. That's fine still for that type of person. But I kind of think in this day and age, like, there's a little bit of the Democrats a little bit misaligned by doing too much credential diving, you know, and they have too many candidates who are, like, very well credentialed on the traditional credential marks. But I don't do that as well on, like, the types of things you have to do now to run for office, whether that be social media or, you know, spitballing with us or whatever. What, like, how do you think about that when you're talking to people?

[Amanda Lippman]

I think broadly speaking, you want people who have really strong values. So, like, you need to know what you believe and why, because you need to be able to show up in places like this and have honest conversations about it and sort of be able to hold your shape regardless of what gets thrown at you.

[Tim Miller]

You don't want, like, to tell me what to say. My favorite, my favorite candidate recruitment story where I was on your side was I was. I was. I'm humble. Bragging after Cameron already did. Many, many candidates wanted me to be their communications director in 2016, which was stupid since my candidate did horrible. But anyway, I had a good brand, but Scott Walker was one of them. And during our first meeting, I was like, so what do you think your big agenda items are going to be? Like, why do you want to do this? And he gave, like, a terrible answer. And then I followed up and I was like, no, specifically, like, what do you care about? What are you passionate about? And he looks at me and he goes, isn't that what you're supposed to help me with if I hire you? And I was like, no, actually, no. If you're running for president, you're supposed to have things you care about, and then I help you talk about them to the media. But anyway, as you said, that is true at all. Every especially case. Especially true for president, but even for city council, it's not great. If you come to run for something and you're like, you know what? I just want to run for something. Will you tell me what to be for? That's not great.

[Amanda Lippman]

No, we, like, really want people. You got to know the problem you want to solve. You should understand how the office you're running for would give you power to solve it. And you should be able to articulate why voters should want you to win, which is different than what you want to win. You want to win because winning is great and losing sucks. Voters want you to win because you're going to do something for them. The campaign is about, like, where do you communicate that? And like, what tactics? And like, you know, maybe a little bit about massaging the language, but we can't make up that part for you.

[Cameron Caskey]

It's what I say to people who ask me how to become a political content creator. First of all, I'm not even that good at it, but it's like, I have one tool in my box for content creation other than being very, very funny, and that's sincerity. And I say to people like, you can seven and being a seven objectively, but being a politics 12. But I say to people like you, you can't manufacture authenticity. And at the end of the day, you can get away with building a platform not meaning what you say and saying what you mean for a certain amount of time. But if you want any longevity in your career, and I think this applies to politicians as well, like, you can't say, how can I be authentic? How can I appear more authentic? Like, you can be authentic by being authentic. And there's just a degree to which you can't pull that out of the void. You know, if you're principled, you're principled. And if you're just doing this for love of the game, it can, you know, you can see a little bit of success, but it's not going to be something substantial. And people see right through that. People see right through the bullshit of Tim. I mean, like, have you faced that in your career? Like, just seeing somebody say, how can I seem more sincere?

[Tim Miller]

Oh, my. Oh, yeah. No, I mean. And you actually could fake it for a while. I do think that's one thing. I mean, there's a lot of terrible stuff about our Current politics and a lot to complain about about the trajectory of things. But, you know, I do think that there was a period in time where these were politicians and even media figures were like so insulated from the public, you know? And like, and they were so. You know what? Even when I first started in politics, like, the good, the advice you give politicians, and you still see some politicians get this advice because they just haven't updated their strategies in 20 years. It's like, have three talking points. Find three talking points and tell people what those are. And those are the things and you just repeat them no matter where you go. And then people will know those three things about you. You could kind of make up two of those three things if you want. You know what I mean? There were plenty of inauthentic politicians over the years. We might have mentioned one already at the top of the podcast. Right? Like, who just make stuff up and, and, and it worked for them. Okay. It just doesn't work anymore. Like, people, people don't.

[Amanda Lippman]

You can't do a two hour podcast if you're full of shit. At least like not consistently over time.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, you can be full of shit and like, but you have to convince yourself you believe it. It's a George Costanza. Like, J.D. vance is full of shit, by the way. Like, he's bought his own bullshit to such. But you can't become more authentic.

[Cameron Caskey]

You have to be a George Costanza.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. You have to be a site. You have to be actually authentic. Or a psychopath like J.D. vance. Like, those are the two options. Right. The middle ground is very bad.

[Amanda Lippman]

And like, I think you have to know how to perform that authenticity, which it feels weird to say, but you are performing a certain amount of authenticity with some boundaries. So like, I think we know those. There's not as many of these, I think, but the politicians where it's like, oh, actually I want to know less about you. Like, I don't. Don't be that kind of authentic in front of me. Like, you're misunderstanding what, what you're trying to do here. But you want a politician who can be. Understands that part of their role in this point is like kind of to cultivate a parasocial relationship with their voters.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah.

[Cameron Caskey]

Well, that's a great segue into what I wanted to talk about next, which is the Mamdani campaign. Because you and I were talking about this the other day. I think there were so many lessons people took away from the Momdani campaign that were not necessarily it. I think that people saw that Huge victory and said, oh, this means that we should make everything about social media and doing videos. And we. And of course, the first thing that people across the board have said was focusing on affordability was huge. But I think there's more to it than that. And I think that he definitely had the parasocial effect. I mean, I don't know if you saw the stories about all the people who met their, their new significant other at the Zoran event, but also I think sincerity was a huge part of it. And authenticity.

[Tim Miller]

How is that possible? Didn't that campaign start five months ago? We already have. We have Zo Run Weddings. Or you just mean like boyfriend.

[Cameron Caskey]

I don't mean wedding necessarily, but I.

[Tim Miller]

Saw a viral tweet, we know I'm for weddings, which we'll get to. But I was just curious. The timeline I was confused about, but.

[Cameron Caskey]

Also I follow Run for Something and I saw a post on Run for Something about how many people signed up just watching that victory. And I'm curious, like, when you talk to people about the lessons to learn from the NYC mayoral primary, what do you think the key ones are?

[Amanda Lippman]

Values first, voters first. Like, it wasn't really about him, it was about what people were going to get if you won, which I think, you know, back to my previous points, like, we're going to get freeze the rent for many people, ideally free childcare, fast buses. I can picture what that looks like in my life as a New Yorker. I think that's really powerful. I think the content was compelling, but mostly I think it treated people like adults. Like it wasn't silly, it wasn't memes, it was engaging and serious and on the level. And a lot of it was very substantive. I think that helps. I also think it's clear he's very comfortable in front of a camera, which at this point is kind of a qualification for people running for bigger offices, is you need to be, if not naturally telegenic, at least willing to work at it and be good at talking. Which is like a silly thing to say as a qualification for a politician these days, but that we've had politicians who weren't. And you see how that goes. See Biden 2020-2024. And I think that he was really committed to matching the online with the offline. Like, my door got knocked every three days for six weeks leading up to the campaign. Now you can only do that with a candidate who can drive organic interest and volunteer support. So those things sort of connect as a circle. I think that's the lesson to take.

[Tim Miller]

Can I go back to your. You said something that was like really insightful that I think gets missed on all this. Which is the. You know that the voters first over himself like in his bio. Because there's like a cheat code way to do this that some politicians should do which is very much bio first. Like I'm demonstrating that I care about you. You should know that because I was working class person and I was a mechanic or whatever. I was a single mother. And like that's cool. Like people bio first candidates should do that, right? Like that is a good way to signal people. But he didn't really do that. I bet. Like if you pulled Zoran Stans in town and were just like hey, like what was his job before this? Like and what was. You know what I mean? Like they know some stuff about him, right? Like, but he would not run like a bio focused campaign really at all. And I think that is. And the fact that he could demonstrate that he cares about people, that he cares about the things that they care about and that they could feel comfortable with him without him doing the Zoran, you know, one whatever community service award, you know what I mean? Like that the way that people like fall back on to do that is bio. And I think that's like. I mean it shows how good of a candidate he was. But like, but also that's like something other people to think about, you know when they're.

[Amanda Lippman]

I think it's like the most important thing about being a leader really like politician, business leader, whatever is like it's actually not about you, it's about the people you're leading. And if you can remember that and recenter that it requires a little bit putting ego aside, which can be very hard for many politicians. But when you do that and you do it well, which he did, it makes it so much bigger and it makes it so more people can see themselves as a part of it. I think that like that's the thing. You see that now with the candidates that that go viral that make it compelling. It's not about their personal stuff, it's about the way that they make you feel.

[Cameron Caskey]

And I think, you know, there's a potential candidate for NY12 that I'm hearing so many smart people talk about where.

[Tim Miller]

One of the good at this, one.

[Cameron Caskey]

Of the questions people ask is like what are the qualifications? And to me I'm like okay, well how are the qualified people doing right now in the fight against authoritarianism? Like how are the people with the Wharton School of Business degree and the 20 years as a business owner. Like, are you satisfied with the opposition that they're presenting to Donald Trump? I think that the qualification. One of the first things that Cuomo was memeing about with Zoran was like, he's never worked a real job in his life. Which is something that's interesting to say about someone who is a state assemblyman. But it just, it brings to mind, like, you know, when you're talking to a teacher who wants to run for school board, or when you're talking to someone who is insecure about the fact that they haven't necessarily looked like a traditional politician. Is that the message? Like, it's not necessarily about the bio, it's about what you're putting forward.

[Tim Miller]

Here's a prime example of that. Can I just to put a finer point on it, because we talked about the Maine Senate race. I don't know if either of them are your candidates, but, like, there was all this discussion like a month ago about how Maine in, like, an insider Democratic circles, like, we need to get Janet Mills in the governor of Maine, who I have nothing against one way or the other. She seems like a fine governor. I don't pay that close of attention to Maine, but she also is very much a politician. She's the governor, has a politician y vibe. And like, since then, we've had the oyster guy, Graham Platner. I keep saying planter, and several people are telling. Are correcting me. So I'm doing my best. Platner. It's just a little slight dyslexia. But Graham Platner, the oyster guy, I'm sure people have seen there's been another guy who jumped in who owns the main beer company. Dan Cleveland is his name. And both of them, like, I don't know. For. For me, it's kind of like, I kind of would like either of them better than Janet Mills. I think I. Who knows? Like, we'll see how the campaign goes. Maybe they'll turn out to be weird or freaks or, like, not that good at campaigning, but, like, in theory. Right? I mean, isn't that kind of what people. I just. I don't know. I feel like sometimes people who don't have traditional backgrounds might be discouraged to run, but I feel like it should be in this moment in particular, the opposite.

[Amanda Lippman]

I think that's exactly. I mean, that's what we're doing is, you know, you do not have to have experience as a politician. You do not need to have a poli sci degree. You don't need to be A lawyer. You don't need to be rich. There's some, like, you need to care. You need willing to do the work. You cannot be lazy. Like, man. This is actually my bigger flag with Janet Mills, beyond her sort of like, positioning is that a candidate you have to beg and plead to run is not going to be a good candidate because it's not fun enough. It's hard as shit to run for office.

[Tim Miller]

It's old guy joke. It's like Fred Thompson, the presidential campaign savior. You know, it's gonna. They all begged him to run, and then he, like, didn't. Yeah, you're not gonna do it.

[Amanda Lippman]

It's not that fun. So I think that is, like, actually my bigger flag for most of this. But we want people who can communicate, like normies. And sometimes that means you want the normie to run. Normie. Like complimentary. Yeah, it's good. It's good to be a normal person who just cares enough to do what is very earnestly, like an extraordinary thing of putting your name on the ballot and being willing to be brave enough and to love the place you live enough to want to fight for it. I think that's beautiful.

[Cameron Caskey]

If I'm gonna hypothetically run for office, I should probably stop using the words trepidatious and ostensibly. But I only think who we are, dude.

[Amanda Lippman]

Only be who we are.

[Tim Miller]

Ostensibly is a good word. I don't know if trepidatious is a word, actually.

[Cameron Caskey]

Trepidatious is a word. Yeah. It means, like, I don't think it's. I don't think it's the same thing as lily livered, which is also not a word you should use. But I think they're in the same family of words. It means cautious, perhaps a little bit concerned. That's right, Amanda.

[Tim Miller]

Apprehensive. Yeah. Trepidation. I mean, trepidation I use. So there you go. Yeah. Probably you shouldn't use trepidatious. Here's a question I have for you on recruiting these people that is that centrist pilled. Okay. Because I hear from some former Republican types or pro democracy that want to run and want to get out there, and particularly in red states. And I've had some feedback recently from a couple of them that what's right. I don't know if scared is the right word, but they're a little intimidated about the idea of. They have a couple of views maybe that are not fully in line to the party. Right. Like on everything. And generally they're. They're anti Trump and they're Whatever. Like, they have a lot pro democracy and they have, you know, generally, you know, liberal social values. So maybe not every single issue, you know, down the line. Right. Progressive, right. And they're like, I go, I get in. The first thing I do is I go to Democratic Committee meetings in my town or city and the people there like browbeat me over their random lefty policy platforms. And I don't know. I do. I, you know, and it's like I can either fight with them, which is like a bad start, or I'm not true to myself and I kind of fudge and like go along with the platform and, you know, I don't know. My advice to them is kind of like, particularly if you're running an, you know, red state, it's probably won't work. If you're running for mayor of New York, for example, shout out Whitney Tilson. But if you're running in a red state, just do it. Be yourself. Maybe don't like, worry about the committee people. Maybe do more, do other stuff, do social media, go to other community meetings. But maybe I'm being a little naive about that. I don't know. I'm sure you hear this from people and maybe even on the left who have views out of step or any, you know, people who have out of views out of step with like the mainstream. How do you, how do you talk to them?

[Amanda Lippman]

You know, encourage them to one when you're thinking about like the establishment or institutions, like they don't have that much power anymore, it doesn't really matter. I mean, it's like good to, you know, be friendly, don't be antagonistic unless it helps you maybe to be antagonistic in that place. But like, you know your community better than probably the Democratic club does in a lot of these places or the party institutions do. And so I think being respectful, but also not backing down from your strongly held values and I think being able to connect why your position is right for the race you're running in. Like if you are a Republican run or not, former Republican, I should say run it. Wanting to run as a Democrat in a place because you parties as you know, as Charlie Crist, you say, I didn't leave the party, the party left me. Like, you want to serve this place that you live and the Democratic Party brand right now is the right place for you to do it. There's probably a lot of your neighbors who feel the same way. You can probably speak to them better than some of the like longtime Democrats in that area can, I think lean into who you are. Don't be afraid to stand in that. But also make sure that people get to know you as a person because often they don't have to agree with you on every policy to, like, like you and vote for you.

[Tim Miller]

Right.

[Amanda Lippman]

It's weird that, like, be a likable human being is advice here, but that is kind of the shtick.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. Is that true even in, like, local stuff? Like, get to know people as well?

[Amanda Lippman]

Well, I think they actually do get to know you really well because you see them at the grocery store, at the gym, at the soccer games, at the PTA meetings. Like, you can really have that in person relationship. That can help overcome the, like, direct mail bullshit. Because, like, if I'm gonna get the direct mail that tells me that this person is the devil because they believe XYZ things. Well, I've met them, They've come to my house. We had iced tea. We talked about property taxes. Like, I don't agree with them on anything, but I like them and know them. I think that helps sort of inoculate you.

[Cameron Caskey]

What attack that your candidates get do you think is the cheapest and weakest, but also most effective in a campaign? Like, when. When somebody's going after someone you really like and they use something and voters actually kind of respond to that, and then they start asking questions, what do you think is the most unfair attack on another candidate that is just not worth it?

[Amanda Lippman]

I think there's a bunch of not as much in New York, but we get a lot of, like, they don't. They're a renter. They don't own property.

[Cameron Caskey]

That's insane. Yeah, that's insane.

[Amanda Lippman]

I think it's like, we don't have freeholder shit anymore. You don't have to own property to have a say in where the community is. But this idea, it's sort of like coded language that implies. Right, it's coded language that sort of implies they're, like, transient or not welcome or, like, it's like, weird nativist shit. It's very bizarre, but it's the kind of thing we've heard candidates say. It's one of the reasons we're doing, like, a campaign to get more renters to run for office. One, because the housing market is collapsing. But two, it is a kind of stigmatization of a whole group of people that feel so unmoored from how especially young people live.

[Cameron Caskey]

He's not a landowner. He shouldn't run for office. Sounds like something straight out of the 1700s.

[Amanda Lippman]

Well, it's like he's not committed. He doesn't have a stake a say in the future. He doesn't have a stake here, you know.

[Cameron Caskey]

Well, I'll tell you one thing. If people in my generation are going to start running for office, which a lot of people are calling for, I think you're going to see, you're going to, you're going to be hard pressed to find one who owns property. Seeing as I think one of the definitive traits of what it means to be in Gen Z right now is being a renter. And that's if you don't live with your parents, which I've seen statistics that say over 50% of us are doing right now. So hopefully that goes away with time. I wanted to talk about young people running. This is another thing we've discussed offline because I see certain young people make being young a central part of their campaign. And I think that it's great to see young people running for office, but I also think it's a little questionable how much, how much credibility being young gives you. I also think people will use somebody's youth as an attack on them. Whereas I personally am like, well, where are you on the issues? But what have you seen with that?

[Amanda Lippman]

I think it is in and of itself not a credentialing. It's what that does to inform your lived experience. Like to your point, you're younger, you probably don't own a home. I think you're at a different stage of your career. You're thinking about your family planning. You're thinking like you've had different relationship to higher education, different relationship to schools. That is what makes it compelling. It's not just the age, it's like the, the way that affects your lived reality and the prioritization you would give to particular issues in office. I think where candidates get messed up is they don't finish the sentence of like, it's not that I'm young, it's that I'm young and therefore I'm thinking about how to start a family and I can't afford to live where I want to live and raise kids where I want to raise kids. If that's something I want to do, sure. And that's why we're getting to that. Like that's. You got to finish the sentence.

[Tim Miller]

I have a question about young people running. Like I said, I have two that are both related to social media. To me, I bet one of the things that has people hesitant about running is their social media archive. Let's just start with that. Does that matter Anymore even. Maybe the answer is yeah. I kind of think I want to say no because it doesn't matter for the President. But maybe it does matter in local.

[Cameron Caskey]

Do you remember the Free Press video that they made where they were like I just read every Zoro Ramandani tweet. Here's what we found.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, it didn't affect him at all. He did have some really bad tweets from 2019, but not everybody Zo run. I mean not, I mean not like bad like dick pics or whatever bad. Just like getting rid of all police is queer liberation or whatever. Like he had, he had very of the moment political tweets.

[Cameron Caskey]

Let's play the Free Press video right now.

[Free Press Journalist]

I read every tweet that Zo Ron Momdonnie has ever posted and there are 16,000 of them. I've watched and listened to every interview he's ever done and I found his secret Instagram account that I think he's forgotten about where his profile picture is.

[Amanda Lippman]

This.

[Free Press Journalist]

I've cold called his former classmates, teachers and co members of Students for Justice in Palestine. And no, it's not stalking. It's called journalism. And what have I discovered from all this sleuthing? Mamdani is much more radical than his new polished campaign is painted painting him out to be. Here are some examples in his own words taken from his He's a socialist, he wants to defund the police and abolish medical bills. And capitalism is theft. And he once suggested taking apartments from rich people and giving them to the homeless. And of course he believes the government should provide free housing for all.

[Tim Miller]

All right, you've seen them now.

[Amanda Lippman]

Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

What about people who don't have Zoran's charm maybe and have a similar archive, but maybe even worse, maybe some personal behavior that isn't quite perfect.

[Amanda Lippman]

You know, there's certainly things that might be disqualifying. Like the lieutenant governor candidate in South Carolina last year who was going on the weird porn forums. What's his name? Mark.

[Tim Miller]

Oh, Mark Robinson.

[Amanda Lippman]

Mark Robinson. Thank you.

[Cameron Caskey]

Wait, this is news to me.

[Tim Miller]

What? You didn't know about the Nazi porn? He would bring a pizza into the back of the porn shop and then he was like, kkk. What was his. What was his. He was not. He was a Nazi. Black Nazi.

[Cameron Caskey]

Okay, I remember the black Nazi. Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

What was it called? Something like that. Anyway, go ahead.

[Amanda Lippman]

But like that's kind of how bad it has to be matter, you know, if it's not that bad, especially for folks who are a little bit younger. We're Like I don't know about you guys. Like I've been online, I've had a screen name since I was six years old. I have been on. I was MySpace when I was like 10, 11, Facebook since high school.

[Tim Miller]

Do you remember that? MySpace had us rank our friends.

[Amanda Lippman]

Oh yeah, that was savage. Shit.

[Tim Miller]

That was savage. That was like this is why, this is why the millennials. So we have that dog in us. This is why we're built for the fire like nobody else. Because we had, we had friend rankings.

[Cameron Caskey]

I missed, I missed MySpace by a couple years. I had aim. Aim was huge for me.

[Amanda Lippman]

Did you have like careful cultivation of your way message and your profile that.

[Cameron Caskey]

I don't completely remember because I do think I was 8. I had Facebook when I was 8 because you know they said you had to be 13 to sign up so I just told that I was 13. But that was because I wanted to play Facebook games. Do you remember Facebook games like farmville, Farm Bill. I don't know the last time I thought about farmville.

[Amanda Lippman]

I remember on Facebook were you on farmville?

[Tim Miller]

Farmville, Come on.

[Cameron Caskey]

I don't know.

[Tim Miller]

I was partying my step grand.

[Cameron Caskey]

It was like the way that I stayed in touch with my step grandma for several years after the farmville era was she would just send me a request for crops and I was like okay. And I think that farm. I think more people should be playing farmville right now because the crisis we're facing in the Midwest with AI data centers sucking up water from the ground.

[Tim Miller]

Chinese aren't buying our soybeans anymore.

[Cameron Caskey]

It's a real concern and I think that maybe making a pro farmers farmville resurgence would be positive for Democrats running in the Midwest. But we could talk about that another time. Amanda, you.

[Tim Miller]

I didn't get to Amanda. I just wanted to like. Do you advise them to delete though? I guess that's my question. Are we scrubbing? Are we scrubbing or not scrubbing?

[Amanda Lippman]

Go through your archives, know what's out there. Scrub if you think there's something really but like people will find it. So it doesn't really matter if scrub but like you should know what's out there. Have a good, do a little self oppo.

[Tim Miller]

Here's my other social media which is for new candidates which I think is young and old. Something that I'm a little bit, I like vaguely engaged in the mayor's race down here in New Orleans. I am not endorsing anyone's friend from my kids school. That's one of the candidates and a Couple good candidates. Local races are fucking savage. Now, I haven't been involved in a local race in a long time, and it used to be, like, there would be mean things in, like, the comment section under newspapers, but now because of social media, I mean, people are dropping bombs about each other, like, on Instagram, comment sections, doing selfie video. I'm like, this race is. I mean, literally.

[Cameron Caskey]

Can you give me an example?

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. Well, I mean, there are accusations of infidelity happening in people's. In people's comment feeds, or people doing, like, just selfie videos that, like, you know, they're pretending like they're journalists, but they're not really. And who knows if they're like. Like, there's one guy that I'm pretty sure is a. Is basically just a paid surrogate for one of the mayor's candidates, but he, like, presents like, he's an independent content creator, and he's out there doing news reports about the other person. That just feels like an oppo research book that has, like, vague. I don't know, maybe it's true. Some of the things I, you know, seem not that true. I just. It's kind of the wild west out there right now. And to me, how do you talk to people about that? Like, that, to me, almost feels like the most intimidating thing about getting in right now.

[Amanda Lippman]

Well, it's like, you got to know what's out there. You got to know what people are going to say about you. Same kind of prep you would do for any campaign. But also think about your friends and your family and how they're going to engage. And, like, can you cultivate a pretty good network of people who will be your. Your online keyboard warriors on your behalf? Like, especially the local social groups. Like, I don't know about you, Tim, but I'm in all kinds of WhatsApp and group chats for, like, parenting and school stuff. And it is.

[Tim Miller]

My husband does that.

[Amanda Lippman]

That's good. Marriage. I'm a correspondence manager in our marriage. And so it's a lot of shit. People drop in there, they're lobbing bombs, and it's. It gets messy. And I think it's also, like, making sure that you know what those spaces are so that you can network them appropriately.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, I don't know, man.

[Amanda Lippman]

It's hard.

[Tim Miller]

It has me freaked. Like, you people are out there.

[Amanda Lippman]

Well, and I think, like, this is your point of, like, what are we looking for in candidates right now? You have to have a tough skin because especially the more local you get, it's going to get real personal. It's going to get nasty. It's because it, because it's. Stakes are high.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. Let's go back to uplifting. We're already convincing people not to run. They're listening. What about give us, give us another, give us some more happy stories, particularly coming up in this midterm. Let's go back to what I mentioned at the start. I'll say this. In 20, what would have been 18, a bunch of Democrats got swept in that, that would not have otherwise just because it was a wave, you're like this happens. And then in 26, back when I was still a Republican in oh six, that was like the year that I remember when Mark Foley was diddling pages and Katrina and trapping the rock was a disaster. Like some weird Democrats won elections that year. I remember I was working in Iowa and this guy that nobody's even paying attention to the race because it wasn't even on anybody's radar and he's like a local professor running against a 30 year incumbent. He ended up being in Congress for 10 years after that. Right. So you just. Weird things happen in wave years. So talk about like where you're recruiting people and what, what might opportunities be that maybe that would be even better than in another environment.

[Amanda Lippman]

You know, we're thinking right now really, really broadly so can we make sure we have really great candidates running in all of these deep, these places where like the new congressional maps are going to create newly competitive districts perhaps or surprisingly competitive districts like in Texas, in Missouri, in Indiana, especially on the state and local level, where can we ensure we have really good candidates that can generate reverse coattails up ticket? Similarly Ohio, where can we get really good folks on the ballot for city councils and school boards so that Sherrod Brown has a really strong sort of army of local folks running and leading? I'm looking also thinking about long term work in Utah, in Idaho, in Nebraska, because not just for 2026 but 2028 and especially post redistricting, 2030 and 2032 especially, we're going to be able to have to at least try to win in some of these places. So right now is the moment where we blow up the map so that six or eight years from now we can reconsolidate and reevaluate where the competitive places are.

[Tim Miller]

Do you have any cool like unexpected type candidates like also on that front, like I don't know, somebody jumps out, they're like, oh man, I don't know, they're a truck driver or they were, I Don't know. Saved a child from the bottom of a well.

[Amanda Lippman]

We just have. Oh, my God. When you ask me what's my favorite book and I've never read a book in my life, I will tell you, I'm really excited about this. She's not like a necessarily, like an unusual woman, but this woman, Lily Franklin, is running for a state house in Virginia, who this is her second time running. She came within like 200 votes of flipping a state house seat there. Super rural area. This time around, it's going to be one of the most competitive in the state. She's like, long time of the community, farmer, very cool. He's like a very cute dog that you post about on social all the time. I'm just really excited. I think it's cool when people lose and decide that doesn't discourage them.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah.

[Cameron Caskey]

Okay. So when we were talking about young people, we were talking about family planning. And on our Monday episode of Fypod, we were talking about the recent poll or statistics or whatever the fuck that came out about Gen Z women who voted for Harris not prioritizing having children and getting married, and Gen Z men who voted for Trump having children as their top example of what success in life looks like and having emotional stability is literally their bottom example. And, you know, I posted a pretty good clip of Tim and I having a very interesting conversation alongside Bulwark on Instagram. And a lot of people in the comments section were saying, well, why isn't there a woman involved with this conversation? Which is totally reasonable. Although I will say I. The point that I make in the video is that women prioritizing themselves is a very great thing. So I don't know what these people want from me, but you are a mother.

[Tim Miller]

Well, before we listen to the woman. Okay, now that you've. Now you've bullied us into having a woman on to talk about this, it's on the long list of things people hated me about this week. Do you guys watch the Gilded Age?

[Amanda Lippman]

No. I have two little kids. I haven't watched TV in five years.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, you have two kids. That's what I'm saying. I'm doing like five podcasts. I've got a child. I've LSU football and I missed Zoran did that great ad with a guy and who did a great job reading the ad. It was hilarious. It was about the Hamptons people not liking him. Amazing ad. I did a video about that. Apparently the. The man doing the thing is in a show. The Gilded age. I have 120 messages from people about this. I'm like, I got it. Okay. I apologize to people. They were mad at me for saying I didn't think shingles was that big of a deal. Okay, I apologize. I throw out a. I throw myself on the mercy of the court. I've never heard of anybody dying from shingles. I just.

[Cameron Caskey]

You know what? In a world of honor, in a world of unoriginality, I've got to hand it to you. I've never heard that one before. I never heard.

[Tim Miller]

So anyway, they're mad at me. I just. I'm just saying. I guess I've got thick skin. Okay. As Amanda Lippman said, it's fine. Be mad at me about my take about Kamala. Young women. And also be mad at me about the shingles and the guy from the fucking show that I can't. That I have to have to watch. So, anyway, thank you for your feedback, commenters. I value it. Amanda, as a woman and as a mother, tell me why I'm a sexist pig for thinking that maybe young women should think a little bit. Should care a little bit more and value a little bit more family. Because this family's nice.

[Amanda Lippman]

It is nice. I have two little kids. They're very cute. I think it was really interesting. I'm very. I'm curious because I, like, I. I have a big job. I could say that, Yeah. I have a big job.

[Tim Miller]

You have a big job. You're fucking working.

[Amanda Lippman]

I know. I've written two books, a big job, lots of stuff. And I have two little kids. I have an almost three year old, and a daughter will be almost one in like two weeks. And I would never have said that having kids was the thing that made me successful. So I'm actually really interested in the framing of that question because it's not like. It is not the. The idea that it's not. Doesn't make your life meaningful or good. It's just that, like, that. Is that what success looks like? In part, because that is kind of what's expected of you. Like, there's just like some tension there in that frame.

[Tim Miller]

I hear that. And I had other people give that feedback as well and said maybe the poll would be different if the question was what do you value the most? Rather than what. What would. Would make you feel the most successful? Even still, I, like, it was like having a mortgage or whatever was higher. And I, you know, I'm like, okay, I don't think that people should, should, should prioritize having a mortgage over a child and their Own success. I think you can be very successful. And rent. I guess my question for you is broadening it out from the poll. And part of the reason why I wanted to talk about this on Monday, even though I knew everyone in the comments would disagree with me, is it's not just this poll, right? Like, it's not. It's not like there's plenty of data points, there's plenty of anecdotes that young people, we can take this out from, broaden it out from women. But I'll be interested in your take, particularly on young women. Young people, particularly young liberal, progressive people, are not excited about having kids. And you hear about young women talking about how the young men are fucking MAGA assholes, which I'm sympathetic to. You hear about price, cost, which I'm sympathetic to. You hear about climate, which I agree with is a problem, but I'm a little less sympathetic for that being a reason not to have a child. I'm sure there's some other things I'm not thinking of. So it is, regardless of that particular poll, it is a trend. And I don't know, I worry that there's a culture of it's okay out there that's like you focus on you and you worry about you and don't worry about this. It is hard out there and things are expensive. I don't know. And I just think some young people might be getting the wrong message from the culture, particularly on the left. That's what I worry about.

[Amanda Lippman]

I do too, because I think it is really hard to talk about the good stuff of being a mom without immediately hearing about how you're still doing it wrong. Like, I love being a mom way more than I ever expected. It is one of the most joyful things in my life. I find my daughters deeply delightful and meaningful. I love that my husband is a more than equal partner. He takes great delight in our children. I'm very lucky in all those ways. And also I kind of feel like it's a privilege that I get to love being a mom because I can afford full time childcare because I have married well, like, that feels unfair. And so when I talk about it in public, it's kind of like, well, yeah, of course you like it. You have money. And that's what it's hard. Like, I don't know how you combat that.

[Cameron Caskey]

That's one of the things about the Trump supporter zoomer men saying that having kids means success. That I think is also them getting the wrong message is I don't think that These guys are all interested in being an equal partner in raising the child. I think a lot of these guys assume that the wife is going to be doing all the work. And that's certainly something I know is a popular opinion among right wing men is that the mom, the woman's job is to be the mother and to be at home and doing that. But it brings to mind an interesting thing we talked about on our spin off channel that I'm yet again plugging. I was speaking with my ex girlfriend, who's a contributor to it. Ellie. We were talking about how a lot of right wing guys have been looking for liberal women because the conservative women that they meet expect them to be more traditionally successful as men. And a lot of these conservative guys are not able to be a breadwinner and are not able to do that at home. But I definitely think a big reason that young men are saying that having a child means that they're successful is they assume the mom is going to be doing everything and they assume the mom is going to be doing the work and they're not ready to be an equal partner in raising the child.

[Amanda Lippman]

Yeah, I would interrogate, like, do you want to have kids or do you want to parent children? Because those are two different. Like, you want to be an active parent in your kid's life and like, really engage and be present for you, because that is what ideally having kids is. And I don't think that's what a lot of people understand, at least younger men understand, as their role in this process.

[Cameron Caskey]

Can I turn you both into the interviewee? Can I, can I step into the interviewer chair and put you both on the spot?

[Tim Miller]

Would love that.

[Cameron Caskey]

One of the things that I've read so many concerning things about is what teachers are experiencing with parents right now. And a lot of these parents right now are millennials. And I've come to the understanding that parents have been a lot more cruel to teachers and parents have. I saw this meme that was like 20 years ago when a kid brings an F back home, the parent says, how could you have let this happen to the kid? And then today the kid brings an F home and the parent says, how could you have let this happen to the teacher? Like, are you guys seeing, in your, in your communities of parents, like, are you seeing millennial parents be a little bit more entitled or lazy? And this is coming from a zoomer, by the way.

[Tim Miller]

Millennials are great. We're the only generation that is at all has our heads screwed on straight and has not had Our brains broken by phones or phones.

[Cameron Caskey]

The parents are going insane.

[Tim Miller]

The parents aren't great. My school, thank God, we have a great school. And so a lot of it is because I got really lucky. The parents. And a lot of the parents in our class are really lucky. So I feel blessed by that. But I have a wide network of millennial friends. And so I hear some, I hear some insane anecdotes. Like truly, truly insane.

[Cameron Caskey]

I know someone who works at a nonprofit that operates kind of like a camp for kids. I don't know, like, like, I think it's an arts program. And a seven year old came in with a note from the parents that said, you cannot say no to this child. That was the note.

[Amanda Lippman]

That's not parenting.

[Tim Miller]

I know. Or anything. Or like the phones, the blowback on the phone stuff is so wild. Like schools that try to get the phones out and the parents are like, well, I need to text my kid. Parents are like texting their kids in the class about like what they want for dinner and stuff and like how, like about their own day.

[Amanda Lippman]

And it's just like for what it's worth, among like, so my kid's a little younger than yours. Among like my peer group of parents, we're like, who's gonna be the first one to break the pack? None of us are getting our friends, our kids phones until they're 16.

[Tim Miller]

We literally had the phone packed conversation at a kid's birthday party three weeks ago, saying I was going around the other parents, it's like, who's drafting it? That we could all sign.

[Amanda Lippman]

Because, you know, there's like a window.

[Tim Miller]

There where there's, you know, there will be a weak, a weak link. But yeah, no, it's, it's, it's not good. You know, my view is, I've said this to the principal at our school is I was like, if you, if a parent is texting, texting a kid in school about something that is not a family emergency, you should confiscate the parents device for a week. That would be my policy if I was a principal. I don't know if that's legal under the law, but I feel like the parents should have their phone canceled. So I don't know, man. But look, I guess just circling back to my thing, there are crazy parents in all ages. There are challenges in all ages. Right. I know that in particular, housing costs a lot right now and childcare costs a lot right now. And so I'm not trying to minimize that. But like there were financial and challenges Drazing kids in every generation. Like, okay, there really there were. And so, like, I just, all I'm saying is I think that understanding and wanting to fix. And that's why we want people to run for something. TM and wanting to fix the underlying things that make it more expensive are cool and good. But I just wish that we could figure out a way to cultivate, like, expressing how meaningful and great a parenthood is alongside how challenging it is. Right. And to say to young people, like, instead of, oh, just get your shit in order and worry about yourself and worry about your mental health and worry about your finances and then figure it out. It's kind of like, well, I don't know. They try to figure it out all out together. That's fucking life. You know, that's life. And like, there's value in all of that. And you don't want to have, you don't want to regret the fact that you wanted to make sure that you could, you know, like, whatever, sock away an extra couple grand a month over something that's going to mean a lot to you. That's all I'm saying. And it's not for everybody, but. But I don't want people for whom it is for to be, like, discouraged from it by the culture. That's my, that's my take.

[Amanda Lippman]

There's a particular. As the woman on the conversation.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, thank you, please.

[Amanda Lippman]

Do you think there's a particular thing for millennial and Gen Z women where, like, my mom didn't really have a choice whether she could work or have kids. Like, once she had kids, she had to drop out of the workforce.

[Tim Miller]

Right.

[Amanda Lippman]

Her mom, similarly, 30 something women, generally speaking, were the first real generational cohort who could decide to do both and actually kind of make it happen, even if it's really fudgeing hard.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah.

[Amanda Lippman]

10 years beneath me. I'm 35. So if you're 25 right now, whether or not you want to have kids doesn't actually feel like it's a choice you get depending on what state you're in. And your career path maybe feels like kind of messy too. Like, it, it feels like we have gone backwards in many ways.

[Tim Miller]

You're a little Goldilocks era. We're a little Goldilocks era. Maybe there's, there's something to that.

[Amanda Lippman]

I have a lot of empathy for that. Because it is really hard to decide, like, when in your career do you want to have kids? When is the right time? At what point do you decide, you know what, for the next five years, I'm going to take at least one or two maternity leaves and throw my. My entire mental and physical health like through a fucking blender in order to just start a family. It is a big decision. And when we can't talk about the joy and the meaning alongside the hardship, it's really hard to see the upside.

[Tim Miller]

When the dudes are just vaping and voting for Donald Trump.

[Cameron Caskey]

Back to the poll, the Gen Z Women for Harris poll and the Gen Z Men for Trump poll. I know that I very often diverge from my generation on certain things, and I very often am a radical realization of my generation on other things. But I think that, like, I personally, I really want to have children and I want to have children at a young age when I, when I can comfortably do so and feel like I can provide them the care that they need. Because I. The loss of my grandfather last year made me think a lot more about family. And he had my father when he was very young and they got to spend so much time together. Unfortunately, there could have been another 15, 20 years there, and that was taken away from us by the terrible, terrible cancer. But I think that the experience that I was able to get with my grandfather, who, my parents had me when they were pretty young as well. So I got my grandfather in years where he still had a youth about him. Even though he was an older guy, there was still something plucky in him that I don't necessarily know would have been there were there an extra 15 years, you know, in between him and having my parents or whatever. But, like, I want to have children at a young age because that loss made family so much more important to me. But I'm, I'm, I'm going to rate emotional stability first because that's the. I need to have that if I'm going to have a child. So I think when it comes to what this poll actually means in terms of priorities, I, I really, I really want to have kids and I want to be married. I said on this podcast five months ago that I want to get married within the next 18 months, and that's still the plan. 13, 13 months until my wedding. Again, I need to figure out to whom it will be, but we're getting there and we're. Well, I mean, I don't have anybody yet, but I, I feel like we're getting there, but I'm just like, ladies, I don't know, like, I think putting your career first. Well, we need to be able to pay for having kids and putting your emotional stability first. There's a certain amount of attention I need to pay to my mental health before I can feel like my kids will have a steady parenting. And it's just like, can you have kids if you're not prioritizing your emotional stability?

[Amanda Lippman]

I will just say, like, there's never a good time. There's only the time you decide to do it and then you figure it out.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, and this is my thing. I don't know. This is. I. I feel like now we're getting very into Zoomer talk, which is good for this podcast, because it's like a Zoomer framing of language. Like, emotional stability is, like, literally not even a phrase. I don't know about you, Amanda. I don't think anyone in my friend group would have said the phrase emotional stability in college and in my 20s. And so it's kind of like there's this therapy talk that is becoming very in vogue now. And I'm pro therapy, by the way. But I just say, like, I don't know, man. Who's emotionally stable? I'm not emotionally stable. I have a kid. I know, I know. Obviously, I'm being a little cheeky, but, like, sure, you shouldn't have a kid if you're deeply emotionally unstable. Right? Like, of course. Right. But, you know, I don't know. It depends what you mean by emotional stability.

[Cameron Caskey]

I mean, I just.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, life is unstable.

[Cameron Caskey]

We had had this conversation two days ago, so it was on my mind. And yesterday I was on the train on the way to the Yankees game because I love New York City, and New York is so important to me, and it's in my priorities.

[Tim Miller]

America.

[Cameron Caskey]

The Islamabad of America, the Istanbul of America. But I was on the train, and I saw this Zoomer woman who had a crying child in a stroller. And while this child was crying, she was scrolling through Instagram, and I was like, this is why I think Gen Z people need to get to a certain place. Because if my kid. If my kid was in the stroller crying, that would be my first priority. I would not be on Instagram.

[Tim Miller]

I'm on the side of the mom. I'm on the side of the mom. Sometimes you just gotta scroll, okay?

[Amanda Lippman]

Sometimes you just gotta let the kid. Their solution, their problem is that they're tired and they need to close their. Close their eyes, and the only thing you can do is leave. Leave them be.

[Cameron Caskey]

It's sort of like if you give a mouse a cookie thing with attention, where, like, the more. The more attention you give them in that matter, the more incentivized they are to keep crying.

[Amanda Lippman]

I'm on Team Mom. Scroll away, man.

[Tim Miller]

Now, maybe the. Maybe the commenters will agree with me instead of Cameron on this one. Team Mom. All right, that's the show. Slay, everybody. That's Amanda Lippman, our old friend. We appreciate you very much.

[Cameron Caskey]

And Amanda also has books that we didn't get to talk about. Go check out Google Amanda Lippman book and purchase it.

[Amanda Lippman]

There you go.

[Cameron Caskey]

Thanks, everyone.