8: Oops!... They Sent Out War Plans

Summary

FYPod Episode 8: "Oops!... They Sent Out War Plans"

Release Date: March 24, 2025
Hosts: Tim Miller & Cameron Kasky
Podcast: FYPod by The Bulwark

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Overview

In Episode 8 of FYPod titled "Oops!... They Sent Out War Plans," hosts Tim Miller and Cameron Kasky delve into the intricate dynamics influencing Gen Z's political leanings, particularly their unexpected support for Donald Trump in the 2024 elections. The conversation navigates through topics ranging from national security mishaps to the influence of billionaires like Peter Thiel on American politics. The hosts also examine the Democratic Party's strategies in appealing to young voters and the challenges posed by voter apathy.

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Miscommunication and National Security Concerns

The episode kicks off with a humorous yet pointed discussion about the dangers of miscommunication in high-stakes environments.

• Tim Miller [01:30]: Introduces the topic by humorously equating a simple texting mistake to a national security blunder:

  "Cam, have you ever put the wrong person onto a text chain, you know, to discuss, like, when the exact time is that you're going to bomb the Houthis?"

• Cameron Kasky [01:45]: Shares a personal anecdote about sending an inappropriate message accidentally:

  "I sent somebody named Brad from the Yang campaign a message that included the word penis because I was high and I blamed it on my autistic little brother."

• Tim Miller [03:02]: Amuses himself by contrasting minor texting errors with severe national security lapses:

  "It was actually the only encouraging thing about this story, which is just like, oh, my God, we have the stupidest people in the world deciding who we're gonna bomb."

The hosts use humor to underscore the potentially catastrophic consequences of minor mistakes in critical communications.

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The Influence of Peter Thiel and Democratic Party Strategies

The conversation shifts to the role of influential figures like Peter Thiel and how their agendas impact American politics.

• Cameron Kasky [04:29]: Critiques Peter Thiel's plans for America's dissolution and his manipulative use of Trump as a puppet:

  "At least he's kind of told us straight up what he's going to do. It's just, you know, people kind of don't want to talk about it."

• Tim Miller [05:20]: Highlights the importance of clear messaging in political campaigns:

  "You do not have to be a political nerd to understand what they're trying to say."

• Cameron Kasky [10:05]: Emphasizes the need for Democratic candidates to confront oligarchs and billionaires directly:

  "If a politician is willing to say that and not get poisoned or thrown out a window, they will be able to cultivate the momentum."

The hosts argue that confronting the undue influence of wealthy elites is essential for the Democratic Party to resonate with Gen Z voters.

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Republican Moderates and Voter Apathy

Tim and Cameron discuss the dwindling presence of moderate Republicans and the broader issue of voter apathy among young Americans.

• Cameron Kasky [10:05]: Points out the scarcity of moderate Republicans who might switch allegiance to Democrats:

  "There are like 27 of us. Okay, Cameron, stop. Stop erasing us."

• Tim Miller [16:20]: Criticizes certain Republican figures for lacking moral integrity:

  "JD is a sociopath... J. Vance is definitely the person in public life that I have the most contempt for."

• Cameron Kasky [10:05]: Discusses the lack of trust in political candidates across the spectrum:

  "I hope we get more of that. But at the end of the day, there's a lot more people... than there ever will be moderate Republicans who would magically go from being MAGA to supporting Kamala Harris."

The dialogue underscores the challenges the Democratic Party faces in mobilizing voters who feel disillusioned with both major political parties.

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Spotlight on Tim Walls: A Potential Democratic Voice

The hosts analyze Tim Walls as a figure who could embody the sincerity and outsider appeal needed in Democratic leadership.

• Cameron Kasky [15:25]: Advocates for Tim Walls' authenticity and his ability to connect with voters:

  "Tim Walls does not seem like someone who's had some grand plan for how he's going to take over the universe. He seems like somebody who got into politics to help people."

• Tim Miller [20:49]: Expresses skepticism about Walls' political persona:

  "It just gave off Glee. It did not give off real American populist, outsider. It gave off Glee. Glee teacher."

• Cameron Kasky [20:54]: Contrasts Walls' sincerity with perceived insincerity in other politicians:

  "He was talking... we should be putting Tim Walls out there to speak to American voters because he speaks with sincerity."

This segment highlights the importance of genuine representation in politics and how Walls could potentially bridge the gap between the Democratic Party and young voters.

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Human Rights and International Issues: The San Salvador Concentration Camp

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to addressing severe human rights violations, specifically the establishment of the San Salvador concentration camp.

• Tim Miller [21:53]: Expresses deep concern and personal anguish over the situation:

  "It's a good observation... do you think there's any appetite there to get kind of a mass outrage on behalf of some of these men that are ... being sent to this hell camp?"

• Cameron Kasky [22:47]: Discusses the lack of public response and highlights societal apathy:

  "I think it's a mixture of apathy because we have all been trained to have apathy for people who are not here legally."

• Tim Miller [25:43]: Shares a personal connection to the issue by relating it to his experience as a school shooting survivor:

  "I've been having visions of being in this situation and how it's just the most unimaginable nightmare."

The hosts draw parallels between different forms of violence and oppression, emphasizing the need for increased awareness and activism among Gen Z.

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Key Insights and Conclusions

Throughout the episode, Tim Miller and Cameron Kasky explore the multifaceted challenges facing Gen Z voters and the Democratic Party's strategies to engage them. Key takeaways include:

• The Power of Clear Messaging: Effective communication that resonates on a personal level is crucial. Politicians like AOC and Bernie Sanders succeed by presenting clear, relatable messages that fight against oligarchs and billionaires.

• Authenticity Matters: Voters, especially younger ones, are drawn to candidates who exhibit sincerity and a genuine desire to effect change without hidden agendas.

• The Influence of Wealthy Elites: Addressing the disproportionate influence of billionaires and oligarchs is essential for restoring faith in democratic processes and attracting disillusioned voters.

• Overcoming Voter Apathy: Engaging young voters requires addressing their sense of disenfranchisement and providing compelling reasons to participate in the political process.

• Human Rights Advocacy: Highlighting and addressing severe human rights abuses can galvanize public outrage and mobilize communities to take action.

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Notable Quotes

• Tim Miller [03:02]:

  "It was actually the only encouraging thing about this story, which is just like, oh, my God, we have the stupidest people in the world deciding who we're gonna bomb."

• Cameron Kasky [04:29]:

  "Peter Thiel's gay, right? Oh yeah. Peter Thiel is the power broker behind some of today's darkest figures."

• Tim Miller [05:20]:

  "You do not have to be a political nerd to understand what they're trying to say."

• Cameron Kasky [10:05]:

  "There are like 27 of us. Okay, Cameron, stop. Stop erasing us."

• Tim Miller [21:53]:

  "I've been having visions of being in this situation and how it's just the most unimaginable nightmare."

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Conclusion

Episode 8 of FYPod presents a critical examination of the current political landscape through the lens of Gen Z's shifting allegiances and the strategies employed by both major political parties. Tim Miller and Cameron Kasky provide insightful commentary on the necessity for authenticity, clear messaging, and confronting systemic issues to engage and mobilize young voters effectively. The discussion also underscores the importance of addressing human rights violations and combating voter apathy to strengthen democratic engagement.

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Note: This summary omits non-content segments such as advertisements and pleasantries to focus solely on the substantive discussions of the episode.

Transcript

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[Cameron Caskey]

Hi everyone, I'm Cameron Caskey. I'm Tim Miller, and this is Fypod Bulwark's deep dive into Gen Z and what the hell is going on with us?

[Tim Miller]

Cam, have you ever put the wrong person onto a text chain, you know, to discuss, like, when the exact time is that you're going to bomb the Houthis? Or, you know, had any other. Any other text chain snafus at the level of our national security advisor?

[Cameron Caskey]

I personally have never conducted a drone strike, but one time I was really, really stoned at my friend Bradley's house and I sent a message via Siri, which is probably the easiest way to send the wrong person the wrong text message again. I was so high at the time that I can't quite remember exactly what I said, but I know that it featured the word penis and it was me making some sort of joke about Bradley's penis. Whether that was the size or something like it, I don't know. But I sent it to someone that I had met on the Yang campaign because I did some work with Andrew yang back in 2020, which, keep in mind, was very different from Andrew Yang for mayor. You know, that was a presidential campaign where we were talking about things like AI and how automation is going to be affecting people's jobs and UBI Tech Secur and tech security and a lot of things that are important issues today. And then Andrew Yang kind of shifted into this very bizarre alt space that I don't know much about. But the point is, I sent somebody named Brad from the Yang campaign a message that included the word penis because I was high and I blamed it on my autistic little brother.

[Tim Miller]

I mean, that seems like a bad mistake, but I Mean, quite, quite minor as compared to accidentally putting the editor of the Atlantic on a text chain where you just. Where you discuss who we're gonna bomb.

[Cameron Caskey]

You know, I'd rather honestly them put the. The Atlantic guy on their text chain about war plans than invite Elon Musk into their war plans with China, where he does a lot of business.

[Tim Miller]

It was actually the only encouraging thing about this story, which is just like, oh, my God, we have the stupidest people in the world deciding who we're gonna bomb. And, like, the Chinese know everything that we're gonna do before we do it because they're like, not even on a secure line. They're just. There's in like a group chat, like my fucking RuPaul's Drag Race group chat, and they're just discussing bombing. But the only encouraging thing was that Elon wasn't included.

[Cameron Caskey]

Wait, you're a drag race gay, you know?

[Tim Miller]

Yeah.

[Cameron Caskey]

Good for you, man. That's a very cool type of gay to be. I'm happy for you.

[Tim Miller]

We do drag race guy. I got a basketball text chain. I contain multiple tits, Cameron. But it was notable white nationalists. At minimum, he's white nationalist curious. I think it's probably okay to call him a white nationalist, but we care about not getting sued here. So white nationalist curious. Joe Kent was on the text chain, so that's pretty discouraging. But Elon wasn't on there, so that's what we got so far. What else you got, Cameron? What are the zoomers talking about? These guys?

[Cameron Caskey]

Well, I'm trying to get the zoomers to talk about Peter Thiel because I've been doing some research into Peter Thiel and a lot of the agendas he's been laying out for how the billionaires are going to dissolve the United States of America are pretty terrifying, pretty scary and pretty mask off, right? He's, to Thiel's credit, got to hand it to him, his plan to take over the world, make it worse, and use Trump as a puppet to do so. At least he's kind of told us straight up what he's going to do. It's just, you know, people kind of don't want to talk about it. I talked about it on MSNBC last night, which brought to mind when you were texting me about you going on MSNBC and you just said, yeah, I've got Ms. Tonight and I'm not on an Ms. Basis with msnbc, so I thought you were talking about multiple sclerosis, but I guess you're such a regular that you Just say, hey, what's up, ms?

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, just Ms. For me. Ms. Definitely is msnbc, not multiple sclerosis for me. I'm glad you're talking about Peter Thiel. I got to get you into Curtis Yarvin, but that's maybe for a different pod.

[Cameron Caskey]

The other thing that my Gen Zs are talking about is the fact that even a lot of people who, who really didn't lock in with Bernie and aoc, a lot of them are looking at Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio Cortez and saying, wait a second, there are Democrats right now who are doing things. Hear me out, Tim, Drumroll please. That leaders do. What a concept. Oh my God. People in the Democratic Party doing leadership in this economy. What the hell is going on? They've got 34,000 people in Colorado, 20 some odd thousand in Tucson. They are going to places where voters want to talk about the oligarchs, and they are cultivating hope in a time where hope is pretty hard to find. And it's interesting to me because a lot of the people, including, you know, commenters in the bulwark world, our. Our home, our beloved home, a lot of people who really didn't care for Bernie and AOC and kind of saw them as a huge problem in the party are sort of turning around and saying, wait a second, here they are standing up while everybody else is twiddling their thumbs. And that's really interesting to me this week.

[Tim Miller]

I'm not surprised that the Gen Zs are reacting to the AOC speech in part because speechifying, part because everything's been so fucking terrible. I think that people are just like desperate. They're in the desert looking for an oasis, like any water to drink from. And if AOC is going to give them some water to drink from, that they will take it and lap it up. That's not surprising to me. The other thing about the AOC, Bernie thing, which I like, obviously, I think some of the particulars of some of their policies, I'm not going to like that much. But the thing that I like about right now, for this moment, is they have a very clear message. You do not have to be a political nerd to understand what they're trying to say. You can be a casual that just cares about politics, that just like gets politics showing up in your for you page, so to speak, from time to time. Who doesn't like, you know, listen to pods like this or doesn't obsess over politics, but you just can look at the pictures and see there's a sign there, fight oligarchy. We're fighting, we're fighting the billionaire class. It's something people can understand, that they agree with. And I just, I always go back on the Kamala campaign to my convo with James Carville before the election, where I asked him, I said, your, your thing for Clinton was like, it's the economy, stupid. You know, what's, what's Kamala's thing? And like, he couldn't answer it because she didn't have one. Right. Like, there just wasn't, like, a clear message. You know, Trump's is on his fucking hat. You know, you can just see it right there. It's on the red hat. So they've got a clear message. And that. And it's. And it resonates. And so that, that this is a, like, political practitioner I like.

[Cameron Caskey]

Yeah. I think that what happens is a lot of Democrats don't want to talk about the thing that actually brings people together, which is saying the not even 1%, the.01% are coming together to hijack the government and screw us over. Democrats are afraid of these people. I mean, these people are buying elections. Right? It's the same thing with Democrats not wanting to stand up to Netanyahu because AIPAC will spend more money than has ever been spent on a congressional campaign ever to unseat somebody. You stand up against Netanyahu, millions of dollars are going to be spent on getting you kicked out for your quote, unquote, anti Semitism. Right? And if you stand up against the oligarchs, Elon Musk is going to start paying people to vote against you. I mean, he's offering people in Wisconsin, like, $100 to go vote against these quote, unquote activist judges. And it's just this straight up takeover of the government using an endless pool of money, very often involving probably illegal shit being done with crypto. So AOC and Bernie are saying, I don't care if the billionaires and the upper class. I don't care if they stop giving me money. I don't. I'm not worried about getting checks from them. I know what the majority of people want. Because people often forget this. The moderate voters who would vote for Trump and then magically somehow be willing to vote for Kamala Harris or any Democrat. I call those the Democratic Party's imaginary friend. Right? The Liz Cheney Democrats. There's a handful of them.

[Tim Miller]

We exist, okay? There are like 27 of us. Okay, Cameron, stop. Stop erasing us. All right?

[Cameron Caskey]

And all of you can go ahead and slay I Stan, I'm for it. And I hope that more Republicans are willing to take a look at the party and say, you know what? This does not follow the conservative principles that I believe in. I hope we get more of that. But at the end of the day, there's a lot more people, an infinitely larger amount of people who don't vote because they don't feel like they have a reason to, because they feel like they're voting for the same stuff that's been screwing them over all along than there ever will be moderate Republicans who would magically go from being MAGA to. To somehow supporting Kamala Harris. I was talking to my friend Snacks to Hip Hopper, the rapper who used to live on my couch, who is a black man from Michigan, and I said, hey, just out of curiosity, why do you think other black men in Michigan did not show up for Harris? And he said, man, it's because it feels like the same thing every time for us, no matter who's running, whether it's a Democrat or Republican. You know, Democrats might use woker language while they're talking to us, but they're so often wolves in sheep's clothing. And for the black men who voted for Trump, Snacks told me we should have him on the show at some point that he thought there was a degree to which they said, you know what? Trump is a wolf, but at least he's in wolf's clothing. At least he's a wolf wearing a shirt that says, I'm a wolf. I'm going to eat you. And there's. I guess that resonated more with certain people than the wolves and sheep's closing. All this is to say Bernie and AOC and what they're doing right now can reach the large, large number of people who, something like the Harris campaign wasn't able to get to go out and vote.

[Tim Miller]

We have to have some kind of. I don't know what the reward is. Would have some kind of competition where on each fy pond, if you bring up Bibi Netanyahu first or if I bring up Luigi first, whoever does so loses and has to suffer some kind of punish. Yeah, we'll just pray on what the punishment will be. We'll take ideas in the comments on what our punishment will be. I want to ask you about, you know, I get sort. I kind of roll my eyes at this, like, oh, 20, 28 primary shit, because who cares? And all this stuff is so far in the future. But I'm curious your take on just like, at the broadest Level. Like the types of people that you do think might resonate at a level that kind of our last few nominees have. Not for, for, for younger Democrats. I mean, AOC is who we're talking about right now. Like who else might fit that bill in your mind?

[Cameron Caskey]

Or maybe somebody who's willing to say I'm gonna stand up to the billionaires and the oligarchs. It's that simple. I mean, it's not that simple. Nothing is. But I'd like to think if we are going to have a candidate that's going to be able to cultivate the momentum and energy to stop Trump. Mind you, this is in the situation that the Republicans have not dismantled our democracy to the point where someone in the Democratic Party can actually run. It is very worth considering that in the midterms in the next election, democracy might not be on the table. And it's highly likely with what we're seeing right now. But hypothetically, if for whatever reason the Republicans don't get even worse, which they do every single day, and we do have something of a fair election, which again, we're just West Russia at this point. So I'm not quite sure if that's really going to happen. It has to be somebody who says the billionaires are trying to screw everybody over and they are succeeding, they are winning. The government services that people rely upon for their day to day lives are being dismantled by a bunch of 20 year olds who have stupid nicknames like Big Balls, like, I'm going to fight the oligarchs. I'm going to stand up to the billionaires. I'm not going to play nice with corporate America. I'm not going to kiss the ring with Wall Street. I'm going to fight the billionaires. If a politician is willing to say that and not get poisoned or thrown out a window, they will be able to cultivate the momentum.

[Tim Miller]

Okay, I'm with you in the abstract. I think in the specifics we might have some disagreements. There's one example of somebody.

[Cameron Caskey]

Wait, you can't tease me like that. What specifics?

[Tim Miller]

I'm coming to it. There's one example, a specific person I want to bring up because I've had several. You've brought him up several times on FY Pod, but it's never been the moment for me to argue with you about it. And I think this is the moment. And that is there's a character who's been going after the billionaires recently, Tim Walls. He made a joke about Elon Musk and about how it made him happy inside when Tesla stock went down. And then he proceeded to apologize for that joke the day. The next day, and said that people didn't understand that it was just a joke. You know, he just doesn't do it for me at all. His whole shtick, I think, is really unappealing. And when I've pushed you in the past to talk about potential future leaders besides aoc, he's a name that comes up. So I want to hash out whether Tim Walls fits this kind of rubric that you're laying out about what the Democrats need.

[Cameron Caskey]

I'm all about Tim Walls. Before the Harris campaign defanged him, the Harris campaign clearly told Tim Walls to shut up about the stuff that he was saying that was really resonating with people. And he was talking.

[Tim Miller]

I totally object to this. Tim Walls and Kamala both did debates. They had the same debate coaches, the same strategists. Kamala did great. Went right at Trump several times. Didn't do good enough to win the campaign, obviously, but just at the debate itself, she was feisty. Tim Waltz was just like, hey, J.D. like, oh, I'm Minnesota. Nice. We could agree on a lot of stuff. I bet you're a good person deep down, JD So, like, why would. That doesn't make sense to blame the strategists. He was bad. Kamala was good.

[Cameron Caskey]

No, that was pretty cringe. But I do think if they had let him. I mean, anybody being any sort of nice to JD Vance, a very strong argument could be made that JD Vans is more sinister than Donald Trump. I'm happy to say it.

[Tim Miller]

J. Vance is definitely the person in public life that I have the most contempt for. Through out of all, I have more contempt for him than Donald or Elon, actually.

[Cameron Caskey]

He looks like eyepatch guy. If Eyepatch guy didn't have an eyepatch. What was his name with the eye?

[Tim Miller]

Dan Crenshaw. Me and Dan have had some arguments, and I don't like him that much either. But Dan at least like, maintains like a sliver of a soul that you can see him kind of wrestling with the more moral quandary that he's in. And I kind of like that you can see these kind of suffering a little bit as he wrestling.

[Cameron Caskey]

Is he still in office?

[Tim Miller]

He is still in office. He goes on the Piers Morgan show sometime. We should have you guys debate. I think it would be fun. He likes to debate liberals on the Piers Morgan show for some reason. I think that probably because that's more fun than doing his job. Where he has to suck up to Donald Trump. But JD Is just a sociopath.

[Cameron Caskey]

JD Is a student of Peter Thiel. Peter Thiel finds the right sociopaths. He gives them the money, he gives them the clout. If you all are familiar with Roy Cohn, a dark figure in American history for whom Jeremy Strong should have won an Oscar, so much so that Roger Stone even came out and said, hey everybody, I knew Roy Cohn. Roy Cohn was my friend. It brings me no pleasure to say this, but Jeremy Strong fucking nailed it. He deserves an Oscar. He slayed with that. Just.

[Tim Miller]

I love Jeremy Strong.

[Cameron Caskey]

He's phenomenal. Roger Stone didn't actually say slay, by the way, but Roy Cohn is the architect of Donald Trump. He is the man behind the Donald Trump we know today. You know, if you look at clips of Trump in the 70s, he's like, hello, my name is Donald Trump. I'm trying to build a building. It's going to be a huge building. It's going to be great. And then Roy Cohn gets his claws on him and suddenly the Trump that we know, the attack, attack, attack, Trump comes about and it's all Roy Cohn's playbook. Roy Cohn is like Allen Dulles. He is a dark architect of some of American history's biggest embarrassments and most disgusting things. And Roy Cohn was a what, what many people would call a self hating gay. He was a terrible man and he's kind of just like Peter Thiel. Peter Thiel has found the most craven, pathetic, power hungry people and made sure that they could get as much power as possible. JD Vance would not be here today.

[Tim Miller]

It's feeling a little bit like a homophobic rant and you keep just picking up the gays, the bad gays in history.

[Cameron Caskey]

Roy Cohen, Peter Thiel. Peter Thiel's gay, right?

[Tim Miller]

Oh yeah.

[Cameron Caskey]

Oh, vase Mia, my guy. Him and Roy Cohn. I bet Alan Dulles was too. But yeah, Peter Thiel is the, is the power broker behind some of today's darkest figures. And Slay D. Vance is definitely one of them. But listen, I never expected Tim Walls to out debate, Slay D. Vance because Vance is a Yale pretentious debate lord kid who's from the Ben Shapiro school of out facting people and saying, well, but actually. But I think the Harris campaign defanged Walls. I think they didn't let him be as populist as the walls that got the position in the first place was. And you could say you could offer your warnings about populism. All you want. But guess what? When you're going up against a populist who's been able to gain so much power for being a populist, maybe you want to be more popular. And we know what policies are popular here. And AOC and Bernie are out here talking about these popular policies. They may not fit your moderate, you know, regular guy, Democratic values, but the numbers don't lie. People want this stuff.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, I don't mind populism in certain contexts. I mean, there are certain things I don't like, but I think that the Democrats definitely do need an outsider. I think that somebody that can speak to, like, the anxieties that young people have, like, and. And, you know, fight the man and all that sort of shit. Like, bring back some outsider coolness. I'm like, I'm for all that. It's fine.

[Cameron Caskey]

Let me just don't think that Tim.

[Tim Miller]

Walls was very good at it. I think Tim Walls just. And I think maybe why you like him? I think you might have a blind spot, because Tim Walls gives off, like, I am like, the rural theater coat. The. Would you call it a coach, A director? I'm not a theater guy. Whatever. I like. I was the. I was the assistant football coach, but I also did, you know, coach the theater kids, too, in the. In the local play. And it just. It just didn't. It just gave off Glee. It did not give off real American populist, outsider. It gave off Glee. Glee teacher.

[Cameron Caskey]

I think Walls had.

[Tim Miller]

By the way, we love Glee and we honor Kevin McHale and Jane Lynch. Continue.

[Cameron Caskey]

Yeah, I love Kevin McHale, but, yeah, walls had sincerity, and that was something that the party has been desperately needing. So I'm not saying Tim Walls should be president. I'm saying he's a voice that we should be getting out there because Walls is sincere. Our. Our good friend Teddy Goff, friend of the show, had this tweet. I don't remember it verbatim, but it was something along the lines of, tim Walls does not seem like someone who's had some grand plan for how he's going to take over the universe. He seems like somebody who got into politics to help people and who rose up in politics because he was good at helping people. And that's what this is all about for him. What a concept. So, no, I don't think Tim Walsh should be running for president, but I think we should be putting Tim Walls out there to speak to American voters because he speaks with sincerity. Let me speak your language a little bit.

[Tim Miller]

Okay.

[Cameron Caskey]

I want the Beto O'Rourke assance. I want that motherfucker to come back swinging and to get back on the scene because he's the type of guy we're talking about.

[Tim Miller]

I got to get Beto back on the bulwark. I have one more question for you before we lose people. We're keeping it tight on Mondays now. We have. It's exciting. I mean, unless it falls through. We've got our first MAGA interviewee, our first magaziner for this weekend. So everybody just get pumped. But the thing that has me all riled up is the San Salvador concentration camp that is currently being run that we're sending to people to without due process. And I'm just wondering, like, it's hard for me. I'm in my little bubble. Like, do you think there's any appetite there to get kind of a mass outrage on behalf of some of these men that are not Aragua probably who are being sent to this hell camp? Are you seeing any black squares on your Instagram feed about this or anything that makes you think that might rouse.

[Cameron Caskey]

People from their sleep? Even people I know who are relatively more outspoken than others who might have shared a black square, which I did and then was told to delete it by black people. So I did what the black people said because the. The white people told me to do the black square and the black people told me not to do the black square. So I said, okay, I'm going to listen to the black people. That sounds right. But the relatively outspoken people who I see, I don't see people talking about it. I think it's a mixture of apathy because we have all been trained to have apathy for people who are not here legally. I think a lot of people in this country, in a lot of political parties just hate migrants and if not hate, honestly just don't give a shit about. But I also think it's one of the situations that is so dismal that people want to look away from it. And, you know, I. For those. For those of you who may not be aware, I happened to survive a school shooting. I am, you know, I'm the only dumb, annoying asshole from Parkland. There are none other one. There are no other ones. It's just me. And I, as a school shooting survivor, have kind of really gotten to know to really get a sense of what issues people are going to be the most apathetic about. Because with school shootings, one of the reasons certain people won't engage with it is because it's so fucked up. It's so fucked up to think that there's a bunch of kids in a fucking classroom and somebody takes a military gun and puts lead in them and, and, and explodes these kids insides all over a school. How the fuck is anybody supposed to want to engage with that? We have to. And, and the moms were always so good about it. Moms have been so crucial to the battle against gun violence in schools because they look at these things and they say, this could be my kid. The only problem is there aren't a lot of people who can look at these migrants being tortured and say, this could be my blank. We say, well, that's not us. We are not these people. We are not going to be sent into these camps. You know, we say for now. But it's just, I think it's apathy and I think it's so scary and dark that people want to look away from it.

[Tim Miller]

It's a good observation. I mean, because just to be candid, part of the reason, I think certainly I was ranting about this at dinner last night. I try very hard when I'm with my friends to just like, you know, talk about like gumbo and sport and whatever, gossip. But, But I just couldn't. I've been so obsessed with this, I couldn't help it, talking about it. One of my straight buddies was at dinner with me and he was like, you know, it seems like this is resonating with you a little more strongly because, like, the specific instance of this guy Andre, who's a gay barber, and it's like you can feel like what it would be like to be a gay barber person that like, that guts wrong. That's like fleeing oppression and then gets wrongly tagged and then gets sent to a fucking prison hell camp where, by.

[Cameron Caskey]

The way, they're fucking shaving people's heads.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. So you can imagine, like, what it would be like to like, you know. And I said, it's true. It's true. I have been like having visions of being in this situation and how it's just the most unimaginable nightmare. And so, I don't know, maybe the gays can be the ones to start the outrage over this so that. Because we actually care about this. But, But I don't know. But I do think that it is tough for people to get into his shoes.

[Cameron Caskey]

I didn't get far enough into this speaking of the gay thing. And then I guess we'll log off. But what are they doing right now? Going after HIV prevention.

[Tim Miller]

You know, it's a great Question. Because this is one of those weird scenarios where. So Marco has been so awful. And Marco is the point person on these. On these deportations we just talked about. He pushed through the Alien Enemies Act. Marco is the person at State that is overseeing the canceling of the program that was trying to find Ukrainian children. The interview Greg Land's been about. People can go find that Interview on our YouTube if you want, because it's like. It's so horrible and shocking, you can't even believe it's real. And this also is Marco. And in this case, the reporting is that Marco said that we should cancel basically all of USAID except the HIV stuff. And then, like, he got overruled by big balls. And I can't really fucking figure out why that isn't just one thing that they will keep doing because it just seems totally. And it's so tiny and cost and so unimaginably cruel and. And there are some, you know, because there's at least enough Bush people still around that, like, care about his legacy. Like, you'd think they would keep that one thing, but it seems like not. I don't. And I don't know if it's. Elon.

[Cameron Caskey]

You think our friend Dubia would have some words about this? I know you think so.

[Tim Miller]

Have we heard.

[Cameron Caskey]

I know he's painting right now, and I don't want to get in the way of an artist speaking their voice, but you think he might have something to say. You think a lot of Republicans might have something to say. And yet here we are, everybody. This week on. On Saturday, you're going to see me and Tim talking to a magaziner. You know, it's going to be very interesting because I'm pretty sure most of the magaziners, particularly those in media, are basically just doing a bit. So we're going to see if she can. We're going to see if she could keep it up. She does a show with Steve Bannon. You know, Steve Bannon did an interview with Donald Trump once where he got Trump talking for two minutes straight about Phantom of the Opera and how Trump thinks Phantom of the Opera is an amazing musical. I encourage you to look that up. But everybody take a look at what's happening to the migrants. They're being lined up in camps. It looks pretty much indistinguishable from concentration camps and Gen Z, please remember to vote, I guess. Thanks, everybody, for listening. We'll see you soon.

[Tim Miller]

Ra.