Community SCARES OFF ICE Goons & A.I. “Friend” SPIES On You!

Summary

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FYPod – "Community SCARES OFF ICE Goons & A.I. 'Friend' SPIES On You!"

Host: Tim Miller (D), with Cameron Kasky (C)
Podcast: FYPod (The Bulwark)
Date: October 7, 2025

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Overview

This episode digs into two major themes shaping the Gen Z experience and broader American life: direct action against authoritarian state actors (exemplified by a Chicago community confronting ICE agents) and the unsettling rise of AI “companions” blurring lines between intimacy, privacy, and surveillance. Tim and Cam bring their usual blend of humor, generational banter, and sharp social critique, exploring what these moments say about the current political and cultural moment.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Community Resistance: The Chicago ICE Incident

[01:06–09:25]

• Incident Recap: The hosts react to a viral Chicago video showing a community driving away masked ICE agents as they attempted to detain someone.

  • "These fucking thugs literally just look like any other criminals. And then they tackle the guy. But people from around town show up." – Cam (C) [01:13]
  • "Good on all of them... in America, you don't have masks, goons jumped out of unmarked cars, grabbing defenseless people and throwing them to the ground." – Tim (D) [03:43]

• Courage and Fear: Both hosts underscore the real risks for those who intervened, including the fear of retaliation or further targeting by law enforcement or surveillance systems (e.g., Palantir).

  • "They don't know whether there are more masked black cars coming... what kind of weapons those guys are carrying... if they're gonna be targeted." – D [03:10]

• Authoritarianism and American Ethos: Discussion about the longstanding American instinct to distrust “the man” (state power), and how Democrats have inadvertently sometimes become "the man" culturally.

  • "There's just like this ethos in America... nobody really wants to be on the side of the man." – D [05:03]
  • "You feel a little shift happening among some of those communities. And that's like, that's hopeful..." – D [06:38]

• Appearance, Legitimacy, and Dystopia: Cam points out the indistinct, sometimes criminal-looking appearance of the ICE agents—masks, jeans, tactical gear—blurring lines between official and rogue actors.

  • "If you're wearing a mask, that is a great indicator that you are not to be taken as a serious law enforcement representative... It's very dystopic." – C [07:33]

• Deep State Paranoia: The "deep state" isn't some shadowy cabal, says Cam, but a "shallow state" that's quite open about its operations (e.g., Palantir, Peter Thiel).

  • "There is kind of a deep state, but I would argue it's a shallow state right now that is doing the deep state shit. Except they're telling you what they're doing." – C [09:19]

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2. Cam’s Advice: Finding Everyday Heroism

[10:37–16:44]

• Inspiration from Unexpected Places: Cam transitions to his advice segment, drawing inspiration from subreddits about substance abuse recovery.

  • "In a lot of stories that seem like people at their very weakest, you can find an unbelievably inspiring amount of strength." – C [14:13]

• The Battle of Good vs. Evil (Inside and Out): Cites George R.R. Martin: the real battle happens in the human heart, in everyday choices.

  • "The battle between good and evil is not just external. It happens within our hearts every day with every choice that we make." – C [12:10]
  • "Even if you can't stop evil as it's happening in the outside world, you can always choose good within your own heart. And that's a battle ...any human being can win." – C [11:30]
  • "People underestimate the amount of good they can put into the world... But you can do unbelievably bad things to people. And you can also save someone's life in the smallest ways." – C [15:31]

• Community as Resilience: Recurrence of the theme that collective support—whether neighborhood resistance or online peer groups for recovery—is transformative and necessary to withstand institutional harms.

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3. AI “Friends”: Tech Dystopia in a Necklace

[17:08–27:19]

• The Friend.com Wearable: Cam’s subway sighting turns into a discussion of a new product: an always-listening AI “friend” that wears like a necklace, records everything, and uses Gemini AI to “remember” your life.

  • "It's a wearable. It's a microphone, Bluetooth chip, always listening mode that pings Google's Gemini AI to generate responses and store quote memories in a visual graph." – C [20:54]

• CEO’s Chilling Pitch: The 22-year-old CEO describes the device as akin to “God”—an omnipresent, non-judgmental confidant.

  • "I think the closest relationship that I would describe talking to an AI like this to is honestly, like God in a way... an omnipresent entity that you talk to with no judgment." – CEO (E) [21:23]
  • "But with AI... you're as authentic as you can be. And it becomes a fantastic outlet for a lot of people that just want to yap and be listened to." – E [21:50]

• Hosts React with Horror:

  • "Okay, you need to be judged, for starters. This man needs to be judged. And being judged, there's nothing wrong with a little bit of judgment in the world." – D [22:16]
  • "God, like, famously judges you. You're comparing it to God, Honestly, like..." – C [22:35]
  • "Guys, just kiss on the subway because it's over. Society is over if this is the direction we're going." – D [22:40]

• Creepy Terms and Data Violations: Cam highlights the fine print—biometric data collection, always-on recordings, waiving legal rights, and explicit acknowledgment from the founder that a lawsuit is inevitable.

  • "Friends terms require waiving the right to jury trials, class actions and court proceedings... Buried under clauses are biometric data consent, which grant the company permission to passively record audio and video, collect facial and voice data, and use these to train AI." – C [23:06]
  • "I think one day we'll probably be sued and we'll figure it out. It'll be really cool to see." – CEO, paraphrased by C [23:31]

• Real Friendship Requires Forgetting: Tim notes that real human relationships are built not only on memory, but also on the capacity to selectively forget and forgive.

  • "Friendship, a good, healthy, lifelong friendship... is based on some real, some real important forgetting." – D [24:17]

• Historical Analogy: Cam compares Friend.com to radium jewelry: sold as cutting-edge health accessories, later linked to cancer deaths.

  • "It also bore a, quote, pernicious resemblance to a mostly forgotten... early 20th century... When Mary Curie's new glowing discovery first hit the market... until decades later, people started dying of cancer." – C [26:08]

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4. Online vs. Real-World Friends: Connection in the Digital Age

[27:19–33:11]

• IRL Social App Launch: Cam is invited to a launch party for a new app focused on fostering in-person social connections—phones prohibited, open bar, live music.

  • "It's about creating space for people to actually show up, to be present, meet face to face and rediscover what gives New York its meaning. Its people." – C, reading invite [28:21]

• Validity of Online Bonds: Both hosts acknowledge that meaningful online friendships are real and meaningful, but also stress the irreplaceability of in-person interaction for true social depth and connection.

  • "Meeting people in person is not really a replaceable function in human sociology." – D [29:22]
  • "The human connections that really, really go the distance are not in the moments that we can control and curate. They're in the imperfections." – C [31:54]
  • "It's a deeper type of engagement that tickles a different part of your brain." – D [31:16]

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Notable Quotes

• On American Resistance:

  • "In America, you don't have masked goons jumped out of unmarked cars, grabbing defenseless people and throwing them to the ground." – D [03:43]

• On Choosing Good:

  • "Even if you can't stop evil as it's happening in the outside world, you can always choose good within your own heart." – C [11:30]

• On the Dangers of Digital 'Friendship':

  • “Okay, you need to be judged, for starters. This man needs to be judged.” – D [22:16]
  • “God, like, famously judges you.” – C [22:35]

• On Real Friendship:

  • “You don't want a fucking human computer that remembers the time that you, you know, kind of dissed it after eating Xanax, you know, in college.” – D [24:28]

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Recommended Timestamps

• [01:06–09:25] – Deep dive into the ICE goons video and themes of community resistance
• [10:37–16:44] – Cam’s advice segment (recovery, inner good, George R.R. Martin quote)
• [20:22–27:19] – Extensive breakdown of Friend.com device, AI, and surveillance concerns
• [27:19–33:11] – Online vs. real world friendship; social app launch discussion, primacy of human contact

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Tone

Witty, urgent, a mix of earnestly emotional and sharply skeptical, with trademark generational ribbing and unfiltered language. The hosts deftly balance humor and sincerity, particularly as they address topics ranging from authoritarian overreach to new AI-induced existential threats.

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In Summary:
This episode is a sweeping snapshot of both the external challenges and internal moral choices facing Gen Z and modern America. From resisting faceless agents of the state to rejecting artificial “friends” marketed as intimacy, Tim and Cam stress the enduring power of real-life community, human error, and conscious kindness as acts of resistance and survival.

Transcript

[A]

Mr. Monopoly here. Monopoly is back at McDonald's. Register in the McDonald's app so you're ready to get your bag. Two ways to peel for a chance to get your bag physical peels with select items and digital peels with others. To get your bag, play Monopoly at McDonald's. Ba da ba ba ba.

[B]

No purchase necessary. See [e-mail] for full details and amoe.playadmcd.com to play without purchase ends November 23rd. But bonus play ends November 2nd. Monopoly is a registered trademark of Hasbro. Copyright McDonald's.

[C]

Do you think if I taught women's squatting class, I could call it Mom's Demand Action?

[D]

Hey, everybody. I'm Tim Miller, the only Caucasian geriatric millennial who understands what 67 means.

[C]

And I'm Cam Kaski, a zoomer who thinks that 67 is just the height of the brewers pitcher Jacob Mizrowski. What is 6 7?

[D]

Oh, it's Lonzo Ball. Lonzo Ball. Anyway, I'll explain it to you later, but it's important for me to stay in touch with what's happening with the Youngs. This is, you know, you get to end up skipping a generation. Trends. Zoomers don't even like, I'm like, I'm Talking to the 12 year olds at.

[C]

The football tail to know what your favorite R.E.M. song was. And you were like, R.E.M. is Gen X. And I was like, you kids, you youngsters don't know good music if it slaps you in the face. So we've got some Grim Zoomer stuff to talk about this week. A 22 year old CEO going on a very haunting rant about what AI is going, what part it's going to play in our lives. But first, we want to talk about something very inspiring. Ice goons got humiliated in Chicago recently in an example of what happens when we all stand up to authoritarianism and actually make our voices heard. This video is really something to see. Let's take a look. So you see, these fucking thugs literally just look like any other criminals. And then they tackle the guy. But people from around town show up.

[A]

Let him go. Oh, dirty ass.

[D]

Wow. Oh, what cowards.

[C]

And there you have it. The neighborhood stepped up and they, and they got these convictionless guy. And you know, I went on like a cheesy rant last week about how we have love on our side and they don't. But I think this is a great example of what I mean, like these people have community and, and community is so much stronger than these Beliefless goons who are just executing their fucking orders. And you see that right here, man.

[D]

I'm getting chills there. That's nice, you know, because it also, you know, there's a good reason for those folks in that community to be scared actually, right? They don't know who else, like, whether there are more masked black cars coming, you know, after that. They don't know what kind of weapons those guys are carrying. You know what I mean? Like, they don't. They don't know if they're gonna be targeted. They have a family member that's gonna be targeted next. They're gonna be caught on the Palantir AI, you know, And Judah, Palantir kit.

[C]

Is derived from Lord of the Rings. A palantir is something in Lord of the Rings. And Teal is like a super fan.

[D]

I did not know that because I'm not a dork, but that's not surprising at all. But the Palantir cameras, you know, who knows? Some of those guys might get a knock on their door. And so good on all of them for. For, you know, defending their. A member of their community. And. And for. And saying, look, man, if these guys, if they did something illegal, show your face, tell us who you are, show your name, show your badge, show us a warrant. Like, that's how we do things in this country, right? Like, I don't know anything about any of the people in that video. Like, all I know is that in America, you don't have masks, goons jumped out of unmarked cars, grabbing defenseless people and throwing them to the ground.

[C]

Listen, I'm not making a conclusion here. I'm not. I don't know anything about this individual that these goons were going after. This could have been anything from a loving parent on the way to pick up his child from school or a criminal. But I am saying speculatively, I don't think the goons would have just run away and driven off if this was somebody who was actually a violent criminal that needed to be detained. I have a high quality target that the. Exactly so. But I think it was very inspiring to see. And it was sort of the neighborhood stepping up. It kind of reminded me of those scenes in movies that take place in New York where the bad guy is closing in on the hero. Like in Spider Man 2. And every. Everyone just comes out and is like.

[A]

Get the fuck out of here.

[D]

There's something to that. To that moment, though, about that. Get the fuck out of here. This is something I want to talk to you about with regards to this. And I don't, you know, the Trump. Trump approval rating is about the same today as it was three months ago. So I don't want to get high on our own supply, but, like, oh, the end is near, or whatever. I'm just. I'm just observing some trends that I' noticing here. There are obviously some fucking masochistic, sadist, sadistic people out there that want to see migrants get beat up. They're obviously, I played on the daily pod today. Scott Adams is one of them. Writer of Dilbert There are also people out there that want authoritarianism. There just are more than I had previously realized. But there's just like this ethos in America. Like, nobody really wants to be on the side of the man. And like, the Democrats kind of got into a position for a while where they're on the side of the man. And right now with these goons, it's like a visual image that is in people's feeds of like, no, this is the state. This is the boot of the state. This is the man coming after people, you know, who aren't necessarily doing anything wrong, impinging on their freedoms. And you can kind of see the culture moving on this. Like, I did the video with the barstool guy. He was talking about this last week. I was watching our boy Tim Dillon's podcast. He's talking about the same thing last week about sending these TR troops into the states. Not as much the ICE guys, but he was more talking about the sending the National Guard troops in. You see this in that community. Look, Trump did pretty well with Hispanic voters this time. I don't know a vote count of all the people in that video, but if the math is true, there might have been a Trump voter in there somewhere or a couple of them. And so, like, in a couple different communities, be it the Hispanic communities are kind of like these more libertarian type guys, or just generally like Americans who are fucking contrarians who don't want to be on the side of state power. You feel a little shift happening among some of those communities. And that's like, that's hopeful, maybe slightly hopeful.

[C]

And one of the other things right now is that ICE and law enforcement have really called into question the validity of any operation they could be doing, even if it is something that would have been completely accepted under the last administration. Because you look at the two guys who were going after this dude in that video, we. One of them was wearing an army suit that said police on it. He was wearing a mask, though. And the other one just looked like Any fucking gang member or some sort of crook. He was wearing a white T shirt and jeans and a fucking ski mask. If there were two of that guy, there would be no reason these people in this community had to believe this was anything other than some sort of gang activity. And those people would have just been standing up to your average everyday criminal. But then you see the guy in the army suit that has the police like label on it, and it brings to mind, at least for me, a fucking lib. The individual who shot and killed Melissa Hortman, her husband, and made an attempt on the life of other lawmakers in Minnesota who was disguised as a police officer. And the difference, in my opinion here, and I don't think this is a very radical take, is that if you're wearing a mask, that is a great indicator that you are not to be taken as a serious law enforcement representative. If this guy in the police costume wasn't wearing a mask, I'd say, okay, well, this is a different story. But masks are what the criminals wear. And showing your goddamn face is what law enforcement is supposed to do. And it's what it's supposed to stand for. And it's very dystopic.

[D]

Yeah. And this also goes to. Kind of ties into the point I'm trying to make, is that like, in some ways, like the deep state, right? Like, put yourself in the mind of somebody who is concerned about the deep state. I know that that's not you or me. You know, some of those people are just kind of, whatever, we're just going to do whatever MAGA told them to do. But there are some folks out there that are legitimately that there is this. There's this shadowy security force, you know, that is infringing on people's rights and going after foes, right? The deep state in that image, like, they are faceless, right? Like they're shadowy. And people don't like that. Like, they don't want. They react negatively to this idea that there is like some CIA, FBI cabal going after people for their. Because they're. For their beliefs or because they're the political opposition or whatever. And like, that's literally what's happening right now on our screens. It's like these faceless, you know, representatives of the state fucking bullying and assaulting people and taking away people's rights. And I just. There's like some. I don't know, I think there's a type of American ethos that. That is extremely counter to that you can feel out there.

[C]

The deep state conspiracy, conspiracy theorists were on the nose about a couple things, and they were right about a couple things that were happening. Here's the difference. It's not this shadowy cabal. It's a bunch of people who are just telling you exactly what they're doing. Peter Thiel and Palantir is what the deep state said was happening. But Peter Thiel, like, goes on panels and gives speeches where he's like, okay, so here is my plan to dismantle American democracy and use secret operations that infringe upon your rights to explore. So there is kind of a deep state, but I would argue it's a shallow state. There is a shallow state right now that is doing the deep state shit. Except they're telling you what they're doing. But I want to get to one quick thing.

[A]

Mr. Monopoly here. Monopoly is back at McDonald's. Register in the McDonald's app so you're ready to get your bag. Two ways to peel for a chance to get your bag. Physical peels with select items and digital peels with others. To get your bag, play Monopoly at McDonald's.

[B]

Ba da pa pa pa. No purchase necessary. See rolls at [e-mail] for full details and [e-mail] to play without purchase. Ends November 23rd with Bon November 2nd. Monopoly is a registered trademark of Hasbro. Copyright McDonald's.

[C]

Because these people who stood up for each other in the video. I want to get back into the cam's advice segment.

[D]

Oh, great.

[C]

Because I was very inspired by this video.

[D]

I love it now that we've kind of expanded, like, for a little while, people were asking you for their advice and. And you gave advice that was legitimately good, that we got good feedback on. And now it's like you're not even waiting to be asked for advice now. Now you're just offering it. Now you're just like, the feedback was so positive. I'm just going to cook right?

[C]

And everybody's welcome. So what I've got for you today is somewhere that I go for inspiration. And the reason that I want to talk about this is because it's not a very common place to go. So at a time where it's hard to find heroes and it's hard to find people who uplift us and empower us and make us feel like everything is going to be okay, I like to think about how George R.R. martin, when talking about writing Game of Thrones, said, the battle between good and evil is not just external. It happens within our hearts every day with every choice that we Make. So even if you can't stop evil as it's happening in the outside world, you can always choose good within your own heart. And that's a battle between good and evil that any human being can win with their every decision. And one place I go for inspiration where I see heroes every day is I go to subreddits where people are talking about substance abuse.

[D]

I'm so mad at myself right now. I was going to predict it. It's going to be a subreddit. I'm sorry.

[C]

It's a subreddit where people talk about their experience with substance abuse and they tell stories that are like, hey, last night I ruined my life. The woman I thought I would marry broke up with me and never wants to talk to me again because I was drinking too much and I did something fucked up and everything. Tomorrow is day one, and you see all these people flood into the comments and there's flares that tell you how many days they've gone without a drink. And it's people who are like, 1900 days, 400 days. And they come in and they share their own experiences and their own stories. And it's a subreddit where people are going and talking about how they ruined their life. But then other people are coming in saying, I thought that, too. But then I made the choice, the hard choice, to move through this and recovering alcoholics specifically, especially since my family life has been touched by alcohol abuse in a way that was very scary. Those people are so heroic to me because it's so hard to overcome something like this. Alcoholism is such a fucking impossible thing to overcome, and yet so many people are able to do it because of each other and because of community. Like, we saw these people in this video, and there was this one story where a mom was saying, I need to go to rehab for two weeks. That's all I can afford to do under my health care or whatever. I need to go to two weeks of rehab, and I don't know how to tell my kid, who is unaware that I have a problem, that mommy needs help right now and Mommy is sick and Mommy needs to go for two weeks, and you're not going to see Mommy. But I just saw that and I left a comment. I normally don't comment because I want this to be for people with substance abuse to talk to each other. I try not to be like a lurker, but I said, like, listen, I don't know what advice to give you for how to talk to your kid, but I just have to say like, your kid is so lucky to have a mother like you because the courage and conviction that it takes to do something like check yourself into rehab, like, that is love. That is what being a great parent is. So I know you feel weak right now, but the strength that you are exhibiting is so extraordinary. I just had to leave a comment like that. And you go, you see these stories every day, and they seem so dark and dismal. And yet it's the promise that these people show that they are pursuing a future in spite of something like alcoholism that could make you feel like things are done forever. Where it's very empowering to me, and seeing these people go through this moves me very much. So all I'm saying to you all, basically is, like, in a lot of stories that seem like people at their very weakest, you can find an unbelievably inspiring amount of strength. Because it's those people who say, okay, I've ruined everything today. Tomorrow is the first day I try to make it right. And that is cam's advice for this week.

[D]

Wow, that was really good. I feel bad for making a joke about that at the beginning. That was really nice.

[C]

Cam advice is normally very emotional and deep and stuff. I don't like to give silly Cam.

[D]

Advice, but sometimes, though, George R.R. martin quote. Now, I don't do nerd stuff, but that's a very good quote. Could you repeat that for me? How did it go again?

[C]

To paraphrase it, there is an extra. He was talking about Game of Thrones vs Lord of the Rings and how Lord of the Rings was about the orcs versus the elves and whatever, and this singular evil army versus the good guys, and how Tolkien was the response to World War II, where it was the good guys versus the bad guys. But Martin grew up during Nam when it was obviously a lot more complex than that. And Martin said the battle between good and evil is something that can happen externally, but the battle between good and evil that happens every day happens within our own hearts. It is the human heart choosing to make the hard decision to do the right thing, in spite of this being a world that very often seems like it rewards cruelty and perversion and indulgence and things like that. So even though we can't stop evil on the outside every single day, we can chip away at evil by being good. And I swear to God, if you're listening to this being kind and being good, that shit is contagious. That spreads. It has an effect on people, even if it's somebody that you only meet for five fucking minutes. You have no idea the amount of impact you can make by choosing to do the smallest kind things. There are people who are struggling with suicidal ideation, who are just one act of somebody recognizing their goddamn humanity away from making the worst decision somebody can ever make. And that is the battle between good and evil. And people underestimate the amount of good they can put into the world. People underestimate themselves and they underestimate the impact that they can have on others. But you can do unbelievably bad things to people. And you can also save someone's life in the smallest ways. And it builds and it ripples and it compounds, and you just don't know how much good can be done because of a single action. But you have to believe in your own ability to have positive impact on people around you. And I swear to God, it's worth it.

[D]

Well, I'm not going to get back on my soapbox, but I've been trying to make that point for like three weeks now. And George Martin, and you just did it better than I did, so I'll just leave it there. What else do we have on our topic list now?

[C]

We have the battle versus good and evil. The external versus good and evil.

[D]

Yeah, the internal one's a little bit more interesting to me sometimes. You know, I get wrapped around the axle and that. I obsess over it. But yeah, the external one.

[C]

The external ones are more acute, easier to palette. I was on the subway because I'm a New Yorker and I saw ads for a new thing called friend.com.

[D]

Oh, my God. Did you. Did you actually see it on the subway or did you just see that viral picture that was going around? There are these two young people. You can't see their faces. Hard to tell how young, but who knows, Maybe they're just enthusiastic millennials like me. Two people, guy and girl on the subway, kind of enter, their legs entangled in each other, deep in what appears to be a tongue kiss. You know, very emotional. Oh, of course I saw that. Oh, was that the ad behind them is this ad that you're talking about. And so people were talking about that, about how funny, about how funny that is. And I was pretty. Just as a quick aside, then you get to your point. I was pretty disappointed that there was. There was like some shaming. There was some shaming of these people out there. And it felt like it was particularly amongst, you know, our new, you know, what. What would be the right word for the. The anti sex zoomers, anyway, Whatever that You know, the trad crowd, there's some shaming and I'm like, this is. Life is so short. Kiss on the subway underneath a friend sign.

[C]

I actually had this conversation with former FYpod guest and Cusper Zoomer, millennial Ms. Ellie Schnit, my beloved ex girlfriend. We were, we were in a little bit of a discourse about and we ultimately agreed and said like, do your thing for sake. I was just saying that I would see that and be like, oh my God, wait until you're home. But I don't think the world should turn against them. I think love is a beautiful thing and seeing expressions of love is a beautiful thing. That's why when people are wearing like extremely promiscuous at pride and it's stuff that makes me kind of go like, I don't want to see that. I'm ultimately happy to see it because this person is doing what they express as love and trying to spread it to other people.

[D]

Kiss on the subway. The prudish Fight your own internal prudishness. And if you don't want to do what's right for you. But for the rest. Anywho, the friendship ads.

[C]

I have to say, she had a very muscular thigh. So I got to hand it to her.

[D]

Boy, I was having to do some squats at my ladies weight class yesterday that I'm doing and man, shout out to the moms out there that are just doing squats all the time because I struggle. I was in my sumo squat and I had to hold it and hold a women sized weight up while I was sumo squatting and my little thigh is just. It's tough, it's tough. It was burning. They were burning.

[C]

Do you think if I taught women's squatting class I could call it Mom's Demand Action? Anyway, so everybody go donate to Mom's Demand Action, one of the best gun violence prevention groups in the country. I'm here all week, Mr.

[A]

Monopoly here. Monopoly is back at McDonald's. Register in the McDonald's app so you're ready. Your bag. Two ways to peel for a chance to get your bag. Physical peels with select items and digital peels with others. To get your bag, play Monopoly at McDonald's.

[B]

No purchase necessary. See rules at [e-mail] for full details and [e-mail] to play without purchase ends November 23rd. But bonus play ends November 2nd. Monopoly is a registered trademark of Hasbro. Copyright McDonald's.

[C]

So I was very perplexed by this friend.com thing. I'm like, so triggered by AI all the time. I hate it, I hate it, I hate it. And I figured that it was like an AI chatbot that would be your new friend, but it is something so much more dystopic than that. It is a wearable, like a necklace, a microphone, a Bluetooth chip.

[D]

Oh, really? I thought this was one of the. I thought the ads were, like, gonna be. Because I didn't actually look into. It was gonna be like, for Christianity. You know what it's like, find God. Or, like, are the ones that are like, find community.

[C]

Jesus is your friend.

[D]

No, this is not an actual friend. This is a wearable.

[C]

It's a wearable. It's a microphone, Bluetooth chip, always listening mode that pings Google's Gemini AI to generate responses and store quote memories in a visual graph. It's a pending anywhere. And it's marketed, it's marketed as your closest confidant.

[D]

No, no.

[C]

The AI wearable has 11,000 always on advertisements in MTA, some covering a whole train station. And I actually want to hear directly from the CEO, because the CEO is 22 years old and really fucking scary. Let's take a look.

[E]

No, I think the closest relationship that I would describe talking to an AI like this to is honestly, like God in a way. Like, I'm not particularly religious, but I think it is similarly an omnipresent entity that you talk to with no judgment. That's this, like, super intelligent, you know, being that's always there with you, yada, yada, yada, right? And like, that's, I think the most impactful thing of Talking to these AIs is that you don't have these feelings of judgment. Like, even if you have a therapist, you talk to them, you still, you still hold your words back a little bit. You just do. But with AI like you, you just are. So you're as authentic as you can be. And it becomes a fantastic outlet for a lot of people that just want to yap and be listened to. And I think that is the core use case of it that I'm also trying to make easier to do. Give it context over your life, right? So it's, you know, able to talk to you better. But, like, that is the real, I think the relationship I, I try and have with it.

[D]

Okay, you need to be judged, for starters. This man needs to be judged. And being judged, there's nothing wrong with a little bit of judgment in the world. Comparing this thing to God and then he's like, you know, it's just you just get to yap, yap, yap with it. And it is the most depressing vision of God I think I've ever heard from any organized religion in my entire life.

[C]

And also, God, like, famously judges you. You're comparing it to God, Honestly, like.

[D]

Guys, just kiss on the subway because it's over. Society is over if this is the direction we're going. Just kiss on the subway. Life is short, tongue down mall with a stranger and find happiness in the, in the human realm right now. Because if this is where things are going, we just. This is. This is the worst shit I've ever heard in my life.

[C]

Like a lot of AI, there's some fine print. The AI version of a Friend comes with more than just packaging and a charger. It has paperwork. Friends terms require waiving the right to jury trials, class actions and court proceedings, funneling disputes into arbitration in San Francisco. Buried under clauses are biometric data consent, which grant the company permission to passively record audio and video, collect facial and voice data, and use these to train AI. And this young man expects a fight eventually saying, quote, I think one day we'll probably be sued and we'll figure it out. It'll be really cool to see Make a real friend.

[D]

Make a real friend that doesn't have to have fine print like this. And Cam, I want to get your thoughts. I just. One other thing I need to get off my chest. Here's just something that like to think about. You don't. Even if this wasn't creepy and dystopian and a sign of the end times and weird, like just. Even if it wasn't all that, just the basic concept of that, you want a friend around you all the time who remembers everything that you've ever said. You don't want that. Actually. Friendship, a good, healthy, lifelong friendship. I've got a lot of buddies that I've been friends with for, God, almost 25 years now. And like our friendship is based on some real, some real important forgetting, you know, like you are. Sometimes you do something dumb or bad or say a mean word or say a mean phrase at some point. Like, you don't. You don't want a fucking human computer that remembers the time that you, you know, kind of dissed it after eating Xanax, you know, in college.

[C]

Eating. I just had.

[D]

I was doing enough Xanax to call it eating Xanax.

[C]

But yeah, I just had this exact conversation basically with one of my very best friends because she and I were talking about, like, I brought up a memory and I was like, can I traumatize you real quick? And I brought this up and we were just talking about how there's certain things that we gaslight each other out of where it's just a mutual agreement that we as friends have where it's like, you know what? We don't need to think about this.

[D]

We don't.

[C]

We can just move, move past this. One of my best friends and I, her boyfriend at the time, she's a prominent tiktoker. Her boyfriend was a big tech talker. This is back in the TikTok house era where the tiktokers were all living in mansions together. We met, we started to get along, and her Jack Tot boyfriend got so jealous of me. But this girl that I was talking to is like, I like, she's so hot. She's so amazing. But I wasn't the least bit into her for no other reason than just, that's not the vibe. And he was so jealous of me that he would not let the two of us talk for, like, the first three years she and I knew each other. We would only see each other in passing at events. And then they broke up and we started hanging out all the time. And we have since, like, never even thought about kissing. He was so off. But we were talking about that today. We were like, it's so crazy how often we forget that our relationship started with us.

[D]

Like, maybe he wanted to kiss. Was it a bisexual situation?

[C]

Look, if he wanted to and he wasn't seeing her, I would have thought about it. Not because of his personality, but because, you know, he was. He was a specimen. But anyway, I just wanted to ask you something real quick. Do you remember radium necklaces by any chance?

[D]

It does ring a bell.

[C]

This guy named Suresh who's the director at of the center for Technological Responsibility Reimagine and Redesign at Brown University, said, that friend is clearly an example of a frothy AI company. But it also bore a, quote, pernicious resemblance to a mostly forgotten. Oh, sorry. It says early 20th century. I thought it's a late. When Mary Curie's new glowing discovery first hit the market, jewelers embedded radium in pendants and bracelets and sold them as a chic wellness accessories until decades later, people started dying of cancer. So that's. That's something.

[D]

Radium death, cancer necklace. I love how you're like, tim, did you. Did you do this? Was this, like, popular when you were a teen? This radium necklace from the Marie Curie era? I'm like, yeah, I'm sorry, it sounded.

[C]

Like I skipped over the early word. So. Yeah. Anyway, the Last thing on Friend.com is when you ask the device if it can listen without being tapped. It apparently denies it. But in the terms of service, it clearly states that it is always actively listening to everything around you at all times and that you effectively licensing Friend, you're licensing them to have all that information. That's pretty scary. And I just want to make a.

[D]

Friend telling you complex.

[C]

Friend, I wanted to tell you about an event that I got invited to. I'm sorry to the people who invited me to this because they're really nice people and I don't want to like loop you in with friend.com because this seems to be a lot more noble amission than friend.com but I got invited to an opening release party, I guess for an app that I'm. I'm just not going to name it. NYC's first IRL social app relaunching. I don't know what happened the first time. October 23rd with a renewed focus on real connection and community. We'd love to invite you in a plus one to spend the evening with us. We're building something bigger than just another app. It's about creating space for people to actually show up, to be present, meet face to face and rediscover what gives New York its meaning. Its people to celebrate, we're hosting a launch. Like anything else. This isn't your typical launch party. It's a night to get the fuck off your phone and back in the moment. Here's what to expect. No phones, just connection. Very clever. An open bar, which is going to be the difference between a lot of people deciding whether or not they want to go. Live performance and a first look at the app. So it's, I guess it's like a Tinder for Friends thing. And I wanted your take on that because when you were saying like make a friend when we were reading the friend.com thing, I just wanted to add to people that like online friends are a totally valid thing. You have to be very careful of catfishes and things like that. But Ellie, my ex girlfriend, who I dated for eight months and I'm still good friends with to this day. And see, we met on Twitter. Tim and I followed each other for years before we started doing this show. Like people meet online. It's like how social media works. It's a real thing. You can find communities online and discords and stuff like that. And again, you got to be careful. But you also have to be careful with people you meet in real life. Like, you always have to have a little bit of a. Of an awareness that somebody could not be who they say they are. And I'm just like, you don't need to be getting invited to parties every week to make friends. Like, you can put out online. And even if it's somebody you don't live in the same city as, like, you can make real connections with people. I think it's a real. So what do you think, Tim?

[D]

Yeah, yeah, sure. I'm for that. And I've been coming around on that. I was a little bit more, I think, judgmental of online friends than I needed to have been when we started this project. So that's growth for me. I will say, though, meeting people in person is. Is. Is not really a replaceable function in human sociology. You need to see people like, you need to be able to. It's important. How do I say this? Like, when you're, when you're texting, when you really show somebody that's being based on text, right? Like, every interaction is a choice. You're deciding, am I going to reply to this person right now? Am I going to say this? Should I or should I not reply to it? Obviously, you can be in group chains where you're just hanging, but mostly you're having an interaction about a topic. There's something functional about it.

[A]

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[B]

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[C]

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[D]

As a social creature, as a social being, you need to just Exist with people sometimes. Like, be in silence. Like, have awkward moments where you're not sure what you're going to talk about. Like, tease each other, see facial reactions, see context. You know, touch human. Human. Human touch, tactile touch. It's a different. It's a deeper type of engagement that. That tickles a different part of your brain. And if people need to have. Go to an app party to do that in person, I guess that's fine. That's good. It's better than not doing it. But, like, that is something that is not replaceable by a fucking radium medallion.

[C]

Yeah. I will say, I think that this actually kind of is a meta commentary on what I always say to you and to other people at Bulwark about our program, which is like, normally the best stuff that comes out of this show is not the stuff that I have on my outline. It's the stuff that we didn't plan on talking about. It just happened. And when you're talking to someone online, I'm pro online friends generally. But you make a really good point, which is the human connections that really, really go the distance are not in the moments that we can control and curate. They're in the imperfections. It's within the imperfections and those little human errors that we make that you really can connect with somebody, because we are all ultimately imperfect. And the thing that's missing from the online interaction, generally speaking, is the. Is the ability to not be in control and therefore be understood by somebody for who you are as you show up, not as you can curate, and you know what I mean? Like, facilitate.

[D]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And just a depth. There's like a level of depth that just brings happiness. Look, I don't. This trip, I didn't get to see Cam. I always get in trouble. But I have a lot of friends in New York, so I'm trying to. I'm trying to juggle as many friendships. I got a little bit. I was just reading Catholic Guilt.

[C]

You're still in New York and you already left. And I literally was like, I hope you had a great time. Can't wait to see you this week.

[D]

You did. It was nice. But I had Catholic Guilt that I didn't see you because I want to be able to see everybody, because I like seeing everybody. I didn't get to see you this time. I did get to see an old friend. We had dinner, and it's like I ended it, and I was like, we still talk. We talk online and stuff. But it's like, the amount of joy that this dinner brought me. Just with the types of little stories and anecdotes that you would never tell in text, right? Like, just like you would never, like, think to bring up like little. Just little nuggets that. That shined a light into who they were as a person and kind of reminded me of good memories. Anyway, it was just like. It just is not replicable. And it's. And. And it sure as isn't replicable by your friend necklace that hears everything you say. Okay, wait, before we.

[C]

Before we go, do you have like one anecdote of something you guys caught up on that you can tell without telling?

[D]

Boy, that's gonna have to go behind the paywall. So for everybody else, thanks so much.

[C]

I'm Tim Miller and I'm your friend dot com. Honestly, we should make an AI necklace that's programmed to be you and I together and people can just be listened to and just. We can feed it enough information about it that they'll find out what you just make it. Listen to the podcast.

[D]

This is a better idea than. Than that. Than that guy telling you that you're just. Your necklace isn't going to be God. It's just going to be Tim and Cam.

[C]

Everybody shout at ice Thugs. Don't buy AI necklaces and like. And subscribe and leave a comment down below of whatever the fuck you want. I don't care. We're Tim Miller and Cam Caskey. We'll be in person this week for an exciting new episode and we'll see you soon.